From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #24 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Thursday, May 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 024 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:20:55 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Bushings In a message dated 97-05-27 19:40:18 EDT, you write: << I milled out a small amount from the inside surface of the outside hinge half. When combined with the countersink for the bushing itself, I have a small amount of clearance between the hinge halves. This also traps the bushings in a "captive" mode so they can't come out even if the locktite fails. In my hinges, the bolt is "fixed" on the outside hinge half; the inner hinge half mounts the bushings and that "assembly" pivots around the bolt. Did that help? bou >> Yes it did. What I think I'll do is use the short flanged bushings that Rick told me about with a bolt/washer/locknut (nylon insert) on each hinge joint which will keep the bushings captive. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:25:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Rand fixed gear versus Diehl gear and other RR stuff At 10:07 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote: I first looked at the KR2 14 years ago but wasn't able to build since I >was moving around with the Air Force. I'm glad the KR2-S is here now and iswhat I'm building. I'm also not one with a lot of money available so willnot get the prefab parts except for the Diehl wing skins which will save me MANY, MANY hours of sanding I'm told. Besides, with the fuselage widening I've done, they won't fit anyway. I'm hoping to be done for about $12K... don't know if I'll make it but I sure hope to. > >Jim Hayward > I think $12k is a reasonable target! Has Dan decided to make skins for the KR2S? Any idea how much he wants for them? _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:03:32 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR-2S Test Plan Proposal In a message dated 97-05-27 09:35:34 EDT, you write: << A old friend of mine surgests that in the Checklists section you should add an extra check for C of G limit (reasons being, even at slow taxiing or the sudden application of brakes it has been known for a KR to tip onto its nose, and surely now is not the time to find out). In the Power plant tests an additional check could be: Has the fuel flow rate passed the FAR regulation for fuel flow. Not sure what it is in USA but we use 1.5 times the max fuel consumption for the engine with the aircraft at the maximum angle of flight with minimum fuel in the tanks. Again you do not want to spoil your first test flight by running out(starving) of fuel do you. You document quotes "Duplicate taxi tests with the flaps/belly board", we assume belly board means a flap under the fuselage, you would be better off using the correct aeronautical name for this device as your document will probably be used all around the world and not everyone will understand the your local jargon. You also use the word "deconflicting", again this document will be used around the world and this word may be hard to understand in another country. So we surgest you use another word. When determining the approx. point of takeoff this should be done at the nominal weight for the first flight. Regards Peter (on behalf of my old friend Fred Lindsley) >> Peter - I just posted Revision 3 last night, and already Revision 4 is taking shape! Thank you for your comments, they have been incorporated. For those keeping track, it looks like I'll be posting a new revision about once every 2 or 3 weeks. For users of MS Word, I've turned on the "mark revisions" feature, so changes in Revision 4 and on will be easy to locate and review. Thanks to everyone feeding comments back, we're well on our way to a good test plan! Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:50:56 -0600 From: Nick Davidson Subject: RE: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props / windmilling My experience with getting a prop to start windmilling ( after catching = a thermal) has been the flatter the pitch the faster you have to fly to = get it spinning. The cruise props seem to take less speed. I have = tried this on a 180 horse Lyc. with both a climb and cruise prop. Not = sure specifically why but this appears to be true. Note that when I = turned the engine off to do some thermalling that I would generally need = to slow the airplane near stall speed to get the prop to stop spinning. = ( Bellanca Scout, C-150, etc.) In the smaller engines if the prop stops = suddenly then the engine is probably frozen. Nick Snip: Does anyone know how big a prop has to be to windmill, and could such a prop be run = efficiently on a KR? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:52:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: RE: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props / windmilling At 09:50 PM 5/27/97 -0600, you wrote: Does anyone know how >big a prop has to be to windmill, and could such a prop be run efficiently on >a KR? > >Mike Taglieri > Mike, I will ask my friend Brad what he thinks, he has a 2180 VW with a 52 inch Sterba prop. I don't know if he has shut it down at altitude or has lost power but maybe he has a feel for its windmilling effect. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 01:00:25 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Diehl gear and other KR stuff I just received a price list from Dan Deihl Aero-nautical 1855 North Elm Jenks, Ok. 74037 (918)299-4445 He doesn't list wing skins for the KR2S. Price as of April 1, 1997 KR2 Wing skins $1500.00 plus $50.00 crate Landing Gear taildragger $485.00 " $15.00 " Tricycle Nose Gear $485.00 " $10.00 " Main Gear $485.00 " $15.00 " Wheel Pants Fairing Kit $100.00 " $5.00 " (4 pcs.) Accessory Case $165.00 Mag Drive $60.00 20 Amp Alt. $160.00 Fly Wheel $130.00 Type IV Fly Wheel $170.00 Engine Cowl $400.00 (available for several types of engines) All these prices are in US Dollars. All Frieght Collect Unless Otherwise Stated. David Moore Hesperia,Calif. 92345 Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:31:24 -0400 From: "Curt Martin" Subject: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props > This is as relevant as I can get: > The Fournier rf4 and rf5 are /were high performance motor gliders > that used a vw derivative. > They were often purposely stopped in flight for obvious reasons > ( not something I tried however). > The standard advice was that a stopped prop may take a little > patience to restart, while speed builds with the nose pointed down... > > Regards > brian whatcott I'm pretty sure the last of the Fournier series of motor-gliders (built by Sportavia) came equipped with starters, as do Schwietzer and Grob motor-gliders. I feel it's a convenience feature...a motor glider is still, well, a glider...a different mind set applies. I asked a couple of glider pilots there opinion and it was pretty much a non-issue... "As long as it's not on fire, forget it's out there and concentrate on finding a thermal.." In other words, they fly it like it's a glider all the time...the motor is just for the convenience of not having to pay for a tow or having to wait for your recovery people and the trailer (in the event you land it off-field.) There's probably a lesson there for powered pilots. A nice big red "Don't Panic" button next to the throttle :) This may come out sounding a little weird, but lemme take a shot.... (Opinion Mode....) As far as windmilling the prop, well, I don't think there is a right answer. In my mind you would need enough blade surface and airspeed to overcome the compression of the motor. It's a two-edged sword in an emergency in that while windmilling the prop gives you the chance of a restart (assuming the engine is OK and you resolved whatever caused it to quit in the first place) however, the windmilling of the prop induces drag and reduces the distance you could glide the airplane. If it has stopped spinning and you don't have a starter, then you have to waste altitude to build airspeed in an attempt to get it spinning again. If it does start spinning again, yet you still can't get it started, then you are worse off then you were when it quit in the first place... you burned off altitude and now have more drag on the aircraft. In other words, looking for a prop design that will windmill isn't a primary consideration in selecting a prop. In the emergency procedures of a Cessna, attempting a restart is about the last thing on the procedures list and includes employing the starter if the prop has stopped spinning. The important part is to establish a best glide speed and start looking for a nice spot to park it off-field. Attempting a restart is something to do AFTER you have a good glide going, found a spot to park it, and still have a little time and altitude to play with. As a side note, I read some of the NTSB report summaries (on the FAA web site) regarding KR's and VW engined aircraft.(I was looking for structural failures in flight.. fortunately there was only one I recall reading:) A lot of them involve engine failures as the contributing factors..like what started the chain of events...but the bottom line was the pilots failure to control the airplane. Approach to landing stalls. To me it sounds like a few pilots forgot that funny thing out on the nose isn't exactly required to fly the plane. Oh well, I've rambled along enough and I'll shut up now. BTW, if you haven't tried flying a glider, I highly recommend it... a bit of stress relief combined with learning a different attitude towards flying. Curt Martin (cmartin@america.com) Ormond Beach, FL http://www.america.com/~cmartin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:50:27 -0700 From: Bill Reents Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props At 07:31 AM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >> This is as relevant as I can get: >> The Fournier rf4 and rf5 are /were high performance motor gliders >> that used a vw derivative. >> They were often purposely stopped in flight for obvious reasons >> ( not something I tried however). >> The standard advice was that a stopped prop may take a little >> patience to restart, while speed builds with the nose pointed down... >> >> Regards >> brian whatcott > >I'm pretty sure the last of the Fournier series of motor-gliders (built by >Sportavia) came equipped with starters, as do Schwietzer and Grob >motor-gliders. I feel it's a convenience feature...a motor glider is still, >well, a glider...a different mind set applies. I asked a couple of glider >pilots there opinion and it was pretty much a non-issue... "As long as it's not >on fire, forget it's out there and concentrate on finding a thermal.." >In other words, they fly it like it's a glider all the time...the motor is just >for the convenience of not having to pay for a tow or having to wait for your >recovery people and the trailer (in the event you land it off-field.) > >There's probably a lesson there for powered pilots. A nice big red "Don't >Panic" button next to the throttle :) > >This may come out sounding a little weird, but lemme take a shot.... > >(Opinion Mode....) >As far as windmilling the prop, well, I don't think there is a right answer. >In my mind you would need enough blade surface and airspeed to overcome the >compression of the motor. It's a two-edged sword in an emergency in that while >windmilling the prop gives you the chance of a restart (assuming the engine is >OK and you resolved whatever caused it to quit in the first place) however, the >windmilling of the prop induces drag and reduces the distance you could glide >the airplane. If it has stopped spinning and you don't have a starter, then >you have to waste altitude to build airspeed in an attempt to get it spinning >again. If it does start spinning again, yet you still can't get it started, >then you are worse off then you were when it quit in the first place... you >burned off altitude and now have more drag on the aircraft. > >In other words, looking for a prop design that will windmill isn't a primary >consideration in selecting a prop. > >In the emergency procedures of a Cessna, attempting a restart is about the last >thing on the procedures list and includes employing the starter if the prop has >stopped spinning. The important part is to establish a best glide speed and >start looking for a nice spot to park it off-field. Attempting a restart is >something to do AFTER you have a good glide going, found a spot to park it, and >still have a little time and altitude to play with. > >As a side note, I read some of the NTSB report summaries (on the FAA web site) >regarding KR's and VW engined aircraft.(I was looking for structural failures >in flight.. fortunately there was only one I recall reading:) A lot of them >involve engine failures as the contributing factors..like what started the >chain of events...but the bottom line was the pilots failure to control the >airplane. Approach to landing stalls. > >To me it sounds like a few pilots forgot that funny thing out on the nose isn't >exactly required to fly the plane. > >Oh well, I've rambled along enough and I'll shut up now. > >BTW, if you haven't tried flying a glider, I highly recommend it... a bit of >stress relief combined with learning a different attitude towards flying. > >Curt Martin (cmartin@america.com) >Ormond Beach, FL >http://www.america.com/~cmartin > HI I can tell you the prop stops windmilling at a speed of 90 mph,it happened to me on final after the needle turned in the posa carb.my opinon is that you'ed have to go pretty fast,like stright down . Bill Bill Reents http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3050 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:14:10 -0700 From: "Johnny Galindo" Subject: KR: John Savelli I am considering buying a KR-2, and I would like to talk to the builder. If anyone knows John Savelli I would appreciate a message. Thanks, Johnny Johnny Galindo Wk (512)339-5394 Pager - ---------------------------- 1167029@SkyMail.com - or - (800)PAGE-MCI Pin - 1167029 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:37:12 -0700 From: R Covington Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props >> >>To me it sounds like a few pilots forgot that funny thing out on the nose >>isn't >>exactly required to fly the plane. >> >>Curt Martin (cmartin@america.com) >>Ormond Beach, FL >>http://www.america.com/~cmartin >> HI > Absolutely! I second that. Even if your engine stops,if you keep your airspeed to landing, and stop in more than 20 ft under 60 mph (less g's, ah, might be the 45 mph figure :), and you will survive.You may be damaged, but you should survive nonetheless. Unless something spikes you in your non-Nerf cockpit :) > I can tell you the prop stops windmilling at a speed of 90 mph,it happened >to me on final after the needle turned in the posa carb.my opinon is that >you'ed have to go pretty fast,like stright down . >Bill >Bill Reents >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3050 (Quoted here only for topic, not using Bill's text as example of anything specific) Didn't somebody post on this list a long time ago, that it took a speed of about 160 mph to restart an engine on a KR, and that it would have to be in a dive by the way to get that kind of speed (read , you don't have much altitude left over!) Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:38:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Diehl gear and other KR stuff At 01:00 AM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote: > I just received a price list from > Dan Deihl Aero-nautical > 1855 North Elm > Jenks, Ok. 74037 > (918)299-4445 > > He doesn't list wing skins for the KR2S. > Thanks, I was curious because the KR2S wings are different than the KR2. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:19:54 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Wing Skins for KR2S Hoboy! am I red faced, I stand corrected Dan Deihl does offer KR2S wing skins. they are 23ft.6in. and require slight modification to the outer spar. The skins are made in a female mold and leave a mirror slick finish. They can be finished by two people in a good weekend with light sanding of 180 grit sand paper, cost $1500.00 plus $50.00 for crating. Sorry for the mix up, but 1:00 AM is not most coherent time of day. >At 01:00 AM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote: >> I just received a price list from >> Dan Deihl Aero-nautical >> 1855 North Elm >> Jenks, Ok. 74037 >> (918)299-4445 >> >> He doesn't list wing skins for the KR2S. >> > >Thanks, I was curious because the KR2S wings are different than the KR2. > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > > David Moore Hesperia,Calif. 92345 Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props In a message dated 97-05-28 08:04:36 EDT, you write: << I can tell you the prop stops windmilling at a speed of 90 mph,it happened to me on final after the needle turned in the posa carb.my opinon is that you'ed have to go pretty fast,like stright down . Bill Bill Reents >> Say Bill, I'm very interested in this. Can you provide some more details like type or airplane, what engine, CC, compression, prop. I fly a Sonerai with 2180cc and Sterba 54 X 48 swept leading edge prop. Compression is set at Great Plains recommendation. When I shut down the prop stops nearly instantly. I've wondered if it'd stop in flight. I always assumed it would. I have no starter (8 wasted pounds when the engine's running). Pattern gets flown at about 80mph. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:12:33 -0700 From: Bill Reents Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props At 12:52 PM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-05-28 08:04:36 EDT, you write: > ><< I can tell you the prop stops windmilling at a speed of 90 mph,it happened > to me on final after the needle turned in the posa carb.my opinon is that > you'ed have to go pretty fast,like stright down . > Bill > Bill Reents >> > > Say Bill, > > I'm very interested in this. Can you provide some more >details like type or airplane, what engine, CC, compression, prop. I fly a >Sonerai with 2180cc and Sterba 54 X 48 swept leading edge prop. Compression >is set at Great Plains recommendation. When I shut down the prop stops nearly >instantly. I've wondered if it'd stop in flight. I always assumed it would. I >have no starter (8 wasted pounds when the engine's running). Pattern gets >flown at about 80mph. > > Marty > Hay Bill here The aircraft is a KR-1, I fly the pattern at 90 mph ,the engine is 1800 cc vw, the prop is 52 x 45 Great american. I had a 1700 cc vw when I bought this prop. I dont belive the prop. would windmill under 135 or 140. I dont wish to find out. Bill Bill Reents http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3050 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:53:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Re: Windmilling and gliding... Brad has a Revmaster 2100 with a 52x50 Sterba Prop. He said he has never had the opportunity to check its wind milling capabilities, it feels like it will windmill about 130 mph or so but below that he doubts it would. He has heard stories of people trying to dive to get it to windmill but thinks that this is a rather stupid practice (unless your cruising 10,000 feet AGL) considering the person should be looking for a place to land! After all the engine died for a reason and probably wouldn't start again anyway. Fuel management (if your plane has it) would be the only reason to try a air start and this is not an issue in his aircraft. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:35:53 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Rand fixed gear versus Diehl gear and other RR stuff In a message dated 97-05-28 01:16:04 EDT, you write: << I think $12k is a reasonable target! Has Dan decided to make skins for the KR2S? Any idea how much he wants for them? _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> I ordered my wing skins from him in November or December of '95 and got them in February. I ordered them because I heard he wasn't going to make them any longer so he wouldn't be in competition with Jeanette and her prefab skins. I don't know if he's still making them or not. I figured $1200 for the skins was better than $3000 for the prefabs. Every builder I've talked to said they would NEVER go thru all that wing sanding again. I got Dan's gear at the same time and am just getting around to doing something with the gear. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Rand fixed gear versus Diehl gear and other RR stuff In a message dated 97-05-28 01:16:04 EDT, you write: << I think $12k is a reasonable target! Has Dan decided to make skins for the KR2S? Any idea how much he wants for them? _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> I forgot to mention... the same skins for the KR2 are used on the 2S. They are the same size as the 2S which means they are longer on the KR2 than the original ones. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:17:13 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins I noticed when I was getting my parts order together for Wicks that there was a reminder NOT to use locknuts on rotating parts. So I changed the bolts to a drilled shank type so I could use castle nuts with cotter pins. I got to thinking later that I had planned to have a real thin (1/16") washer under the bolt head and under the nut. I also had thought I would simply tighten the nut up just enough so there was a bit of play in the assembly along the length of the hinge.... maybe .002" or so. The bolt and nut combination would then be simply a hinge pin. Is my thinking off and should I go with the castle nut/cotter pin arrangement or is my idea sound about the "loose fit" for a pin? I'm not sure this situation is the "rotating part" that was intended with the warning. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:45:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins Go with the drilled shank, castle nut and cotter pin. You do NOT want a normal nut bolt assembly to tighten up around a rotating part. The only way I can think of to avoid that is with the cotter pin holding the castle nut at one and only one position. I am not an A&P type but this is the accepted standard as I know it. Ron Lee At 20:17 97/5/28 -0400, you wrote: > I noticed when I was getting my parts order together for Wicks that there >was a reminder NOT to use locknuts on rotating parts. So I changed the bolts >to a drilled shank type so I could use castle nuts with cotter pins. I got >to thinking later that I had planned to have a real thin (1/16") washer under >the bolt head and under the nut. I also had thought I would simply tighten >the nut up just enough so there was a bit of play in the assembly along the >length of the hinge.... maybe .002" or so. The bolt and nut combination >would then be simply a hinge pin. Is my thinking off and should I go with >the castle nut/cotter pin arrangement or is my idea sound about the "loose >fit" for a pin? I'm not sure this situation is the "rotating part" that was >intended with the warning. > >Jim Hayward > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins In a message dated 97-05-28 21:07:35 EDT, you write: << Go with the drilled shank, castle nut and cotter pin. You do NOT want a normal nut bolt assembly to tighten up around a rotating part. The only way I can think of to avoid that is with the cotter pin holding the castle nut at one and only one position. I am not an A&P type but this is the accepted standard as I know it. Ron Lee >> Hmmmm...... I hadn't given this alot of thought. The bolt kit comes with only nylok-type nuts, which includes the hardware for the hinges. I was thinking in terms of snugging the nut down against the outer hinge/bushing, and that it would remain stationary while the inner part of the hinge rotated on it's bushings around the bolt. Now that I have been jerked back into the realm of elementary physics, it dawned on me that the bolt doesn't know/care which part of the hinge is "moving". Ok, what did you guys with the flying airplanes do? Let me guess, I need to buy more hardware? Cheers! Rick "I've got Wicks on speed dial" Junkin EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:51:58 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins At 09:37 PM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, what did you guys with the flying airplanes do? Let me guess, I need to >buy more hardware? > >Cheers! >Rick "I've got Wicks on speed dial" Junkin >EagleGator@aol.com > There is only one right way to use an bolts as hinge pins, and that is to use the drilled bolt, castellated nut and cotter pin. The nut should only be finger tight. If you want to make the bolt stationary , you could safety the bolt to one of the mounting bolt heads. (use drilled head bolts for mounting the hinges to the spars) **I am not an A&P but I played one in the Marine Corps for a few years** _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:57:23 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: test sure is quiet! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:05:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Information on the KR Gathering Here is a web site for information on the 1997 KR gathering, visit it and please take the survey if you plan on attending. Thanks! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9904/ _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:45:15 -0500 From: Robert Porter Subject: KR: KR-2 Owners in Dallas area I'm currently looking for an economical aircraft to purchase. I've seen some literature on the KR-2 and have read a number messages regarding this aircraft and I'm very interested. I would appreciate talking to anyone in the Dallas area concerning their KR-2 and hopefully getting a chance to look at one up close. (Heck, I'll even travel if I have to.) If anyone would be kind enough to talk to me, please drop me a line. Thanks, Bob Porter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:13:17 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: Windmilling and gliding...Re: KR: Re: VW Revs and Props Curt Martin wrote: > I asked a couple of glider > pilots there opinion and it was pretty much a non-issue... "As long as it's not > on fire, forget it's out there and concentrate on finding a thermal.." > In other words, they fly it like it's a glider all the time...the motor is just > for the convenience of not having to pay for a tow or having to wait for your > recovery people and the trailer (in the event you land it off-field.) > > There's probably a lesson there for powered pilots. A nice big red "Don't > Panic" button next to the throttle :) > . . . > > BTW, if you haven't tried flying a glider, I highly recommend it... a bit of > stress relief combined with learning a different attitude towards flying. Curt, I second that recommendation. Gravity works pretty good as an engine, point the nose down, you go faster. All you need is altitude to trade for speed. I've found that a yaw string works much better without the prop blowing it all over the place. (For the non glider pilots... a yaw string is a piece of yarn 1-2" long taped to the canopy of a glider and in one case a 747, it will tell you if you are slipping or skidding in a turn as the relative wind will only keep it straight during coordinated flight. The 747 story was one where the Captain was convinced that the turn coordinator was not functioning, so he taped a yaw string in front of the cockpit and went flying. Sure enough it confirmed that the turn coordinator was bad.) In a glider coordinated flight means you waste less altitude, and thats what the game is all about, the biggest expense is the Aerotow to pattern altitude on a good day. - -- Ross -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:26:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > I noticed when I was getting my parts order together for Wicks that there > was a reminder NOT to use locknuts on rotating parts. So I changed the bolts > to a drilled shank type so I could use castle nuts with cotter pins. I got > to thinking later that I had planned to have a real thin (1/16") washer under > the bolt head and under the nut. I also had thought I would simply tighten > the nut up just enough so there was a bit of play in the assembly along the > length of the hinge.... maybe .002" or so. The bolt and nut combination > would then be simply a hinge pin. Is my thinking off and should I go with > the castle nut/cotter pin arrangement or is my idea sound about the "loose > fit" for a pin? I'm not sure this situation is the "rotating part" that was > intended with the warning. > > Jim Hayward Jim, I decided to use drilled bolts as well, but I've been preflighting a 152 a LOT recently, and I noticed that they use locknuts on the elevator hinge bolts... so I always count the threads on the 152 .... -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:29:55 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: RE: Wicks speed dial EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > Rick "I've got Wicks on speed dial" Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com That was a good one! - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:33:58 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Owners in Dallas area Bob, If you truck out to Denton Tx, you can find Monte Miller, who is a KR owner, and EAA Chapter President. Anyone with an old newsletter have his phone # for Bob? -- Ross Robert Porter wrote: > > I'm currently looking for an economical aircraft to purchase. I've seen > some literature on the KR-2 and have read a number messages regarding > this aircraft and I'm very interested. I would appreciate talking to > anyone in the Dallas area concerning their KR-2 and hopefully getting a > chance to look at one up close. (Heck, I'll even travel if I have > to.) If anyone would be kind enough to talk to me, please drop me a > line. > > Thanks, > > Bob Porter - -- Ross Youngblood KRNET-L administrator mailto:rossy@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 03:02:33 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins Ross Youngblood wrote: > > JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > > > I noticed when I was getting my parts order together for Wicks that there > > was a reminder NOT to use locknuts on rotating parts. So I changed the bolts > > to a drilled shank type so I could use castle nuts with cotter pins. snip > > > > Jim Hayward > > Jim, > > I decided to use drilled bolts as well, but I've been preflighting a 152 a LOT > recently, and I noticed that they use locknuts on the elevator hinge bolts... so > I always count the threads on the 152 .... > > -- Ross > -- > Ross Youngblood > KRNET-L administrator > mailto:rossy@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm The 152 and similar A/C can use a locknut because there is no relative motion between the bolt and the hinge. The hinge has a real bearing and the bolt pulls the two pieces together. The bolt never rotates. In a similar setup, you use a locknut with a rod bearing end, and the motion is in the bearing, not around the bolt. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:25:31 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: test In a message dated 97-05-29 09:24:29 EDT, you write: << sure is quiet! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> It's early... not even 07:30 here in S. Dakota! Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:35:29 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Hinge Pins In a message dated 97-05-29 07:21:15 EDT, you write: << Hmmmm...... I hadn't given this alot of thought. The bolt kit comes with only nylok-type nuts, which includes the hardware for the hinges. I was thinking in terms of snugging the nut down against the outer hinge/bushing, and that it would remain stationary while the inner part of the hinge rotated on it's bushings around the bolt. Now that I have been jerked back into the realm of elementary physics, it dawned on me that the bolt doesn't know/care which part of the hinge is "moving". >> Hi Rick.... thanks for the info on what's in the hinge bolt kit. This along with Ross' comment about the 152's method (which I'd forgotten about) and especiallly Don's comment confirms what I've been thinking. Don's comment was particularly in line with my train of thought. My second thought was about fore going the nylok nut in favor of a corrosion resistant steel lock nut due to the effects of the sun and ultraviolet radiation on nylon. Probably a bit of overkill on the thought process! Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:25:08 -0500 From: "R E Dye" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Owners in Dallas area Monte Miller's phone number in Denton Texas is 817/566-5871, soon to become area code 940. I have heard that Monte sold his beautiful KR to another guy here in Denton. Haven't seen it on the runway lately. redye a0009415@airmail.net > If you truck out to Denton Tx, you can find Monte Miller, who > is a KR owner, and EAA Chapter President. Anyone with an old > newsletter have his phone # for Bob? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:29:25 -0500 From: "R E Dye" Subject: KR: Re: KR-2 Owners in Dallas area There's Les Parker in Dallas and Randy Smith at Lake Dallas. Don't know if you want to buy a flyer, but there's a KR-2 for sale close to Abilene for $12k. E-mail me personally if I can help you. redye a0009415@airmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:27:40 CDT From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: Cockpit floorboards G'Day Noticed several messages on installing insulation, etc. between floorboard and hull in cockpit. Suggest providing drain holes or some other insurance that spills and/or condensation will not lay around in this section. Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington Science & Public Policy Program Energy Center, 100 E. Boyd Normal OK 73019 ellingto@gslan.offsys.uoknor.edu www.uoknor.edu/spp/ Scroll down to Faculty Associates ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 15:27:37 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: KR: Wood Props and Wing Tanks Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't I remember hearing wood props have a habit of shattering at mach speeds, something to do with harmonics? And this is why designers went to metal props? Maybe this is why, constant speed and military varialable pitch props, are all metal or composite? Also, the talk on wing tanks, Ken Rand built the KR with wing tanks in mind. My old plans show and 12 gal. in the header for the stock KR-2, and 60 gal. combination wing and header tanks for the Turbo 2100 KR-2 . Thats 24 left and 24 right? WOW! These are plans from Feb. 1977 Ser.#6120 Book 59. Now, you want to talk CG? Or the ability of the wing skin to support the weight of 15 gallons? Of course these plans show only 12 Gal. in the header tank on the weight and balance sheet, so I guess the builder is still pretty much on his own. Dave Moore David Moore Hesperia,Calif. 92345 Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:51:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wood Props and Wing Tanks At 03:27 PM 5/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > > Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't I remember hearing wood props >have a habit of shattering at mach speeds, something to do with harmonics? >And this is why designers went to metal props? Your probably right! I don't think I would consider spinning a wood prop that fast, I was thinking more along the lines of a Warp Drive or some other composite unit. I got my catalog for aftermarket and stock water cooled VW parts yesterday. There is tons of stuff available for these engines! They are not as cheep to build up as type 3s but a little less than type 4s. Here is a sample of what was available: All stock engine components for rebuilding the 1800cc 8v or 16v engines Various stages of big bore and stroker kits to punch them out to 2100cc Mild to wild ported heads and camshafts (hydraulic lifters! no valve adjustment needed) for better torque and or HP, Variable cam timing sprockets MSD ignition kits Forged pistons, forged cranks, and stainless steel valves Aluminum accessories, valve covers, oil pans, etc. Tuned exhaust headers and aluminum intake manifolds (for Carbureted models) I cant remember the name of the company but I will post it when I get home. If you call them they will send you a free catalog. This engine may be too much for the KR!!?? Naah..... Just skimming through the catalog I think you could build a very reliable 135hp 1800 for $2000 or less. Of course you would need the reduction drive for another $2000?? The unit would weigh around 200 pounds (long block weighs 148lbs) not including coolant and make 130 hp. 130 hp is on the mild side considering these engines make 118hp stock, I guess if its not enough you can always spend more money and build up the 175hp model! :-) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #24 ****************************