From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #40 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, June 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 040 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:50:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies!!! >Tom Kilgore >Las Vegas, NV >LVav8r@aol.com >KR-2S 2%complete ^^^^^^^^^^ That is 2% more than TBD years ago Tom. By being "behind" you may actually benefit from his experience...ala the adjustable horizontal stabilizer. Ron "ZERO Percent" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:44:43 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: Follow-On Glueing I bought my Gorilla glue at al local wood store. steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: KR: Elevator Hinges I was talking to a fellow this afternoon (Shane King from Wisconsin) who had a letter in the Engine Q & A column of Experimenter magazine. I didn't know if he knew about this group or not so called him since his e-mail address had changed from what was in the magazine. Anyway, he was telling me he had excessive friction in the elevator hinges he made per the plans so instead, used a piano hinge like on the ailerons. I asked if anyone had said anything about it and he said not yet. Anybody know if anyone else has used this type of setup for the elevator and if so, how well it worked. He's just finished painting his project and is hoping to fly in the next couple of months or so. I told him I'd put the question out to the group for now till he could get subscribed. Thanks..... Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:00:18 -0700 From: Ted & Louisa Jones Subject: Re: KR: Follow-On Glueing Steve Bennett wrote: > > I bought my Gorilla glue at al local wood store. steve My son BJ sent me a sample of a similar glue he's been using with excellent results (he says). It is PL -- polyurethane -- "premium wood glue." It is made by ChemRex, Inc., Shakopee, MN. It is said to be 100% waterproof. "For wood, foam, concrete (there's lots of concrete in KR's, right), stone (lots of that, too), marble (especially in the toilet room), metal, and more. Paintable/Stainable. Reposition for up to 30-minutes.... Warning-contains: Methylene bisphenyl disocyanate. Prevent contact with skin and eyes...." You spread glue on one surface to be joined and moisten the opposite surface with water. The glue foams slightly as it cures, filling small voids as it does so. I have not used it in strength-critical joints, but I expect as with most modern adhesives, the wood will fail before the glue joint. BJ said it was available in most hardware stores. I got some on my hands, and it was a (female dog) to get off. Otherwise, it hasn't affected me, affected me, affected me. ;-> Ted Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:55:30 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Soob engine. A 50% price cut?? brian At 02:34 6/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm going to try again. I have a chance to buy an EA81 from a car. The >man wants $575 delivered with a 30 da. warranty. No core. Anything >special I should look for? > >-- >Bob >rdlitty@infinet.com >littyrd@muohio.edu >rdlitty@mumr2.mid.muohio.edu > > brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:09:31 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies/Cooling Inlets On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:12:50 -0400 Vince Bozik writes: > > Say Jeff, how are the ducts opened and closed? I havn't had >a chance >to look at the images, but may have to make a trip over to the page to >see them. > >-- > Vince Bozik - Athens, Georgia > Mailto:ICBM@ix.netcom.com >http://pw1.netcom.com/~icbm/Bozik.htm > The door has a little plastic nut that pushes the NACA scoop closed in about two turns. - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:09:31 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies!!! > >Outstanding Jeff! Pure motivation dude,.. pure motivation!! You must be >totally stoked! I am! > >Great looking Hummel, bring him along. One cool little bird. Makes a KR-1 look really big. 120 MPH on a half VW@ 2 1/2 gph fuel burn. It has been featured in several magazines and was front page on a German language sport flying magazine this spring. He has been kind enough to let my stuff my BIG KR in the hanger with his little bird so I could do my test flying out of Santa Fe. The KR-gathering is on his calender. > >_______________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:09:31 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies!!! >GREAT SCOTT!! <<<<<<<<<-----I knew someone would say that!>>>>>>>>> > What an inspiration. Actually your project was the swift kick in the >pants that finally got me going on my project. When I saw your article on >weight and balance in KROnline I noticed that your serial number is #586, >mine is #585 and felt a little jelousy in the fact that I hadn't even bought >the wood for mine at the time. Then I found out that you had actually started >on yours before the KR-2S drawings ever came out. Well I felt a lot better >then but still was happy that I got off my backside and got to building. Good >luck with it and I hope to see you at the gathering in Sept. > >Tom Kilgore >Las Vegas, NV >LVav8r@aol.com >KR-2S 2%complete > Thanks Tom, and thanks to the many that have written to congratulate me. Don't feel too bad about me finishing first. I cheated....of course I didn't know it was a race. :o) Go back to the September issue of KROnline and you will find another article about buying a partially built KR project. I had just bought my plans (#586) and was filling out the first order when a friend showed me an ad for a KR-2S project that was for sale. I really wanted to build from scratch, but the price was just too good to pass up. I bought a well built fuselage, with some serious problems with the rear spar and left wing. The right wing wasn't built yet. It took some creative engineering to solve some of the problems that came with the project, but I was far ahead financially going that route. I nearly sold the project last summer. After a serious illness, there was some doubt as to whether I could finish the plane or even fly again. After the KR gathering last September, I got back in gear and have worked harder and harder as I could see the light coming at the end of the tunnel. I must say that I really enjoyed the building process, and so far, the flying has been a blast too. Now it's time to get down to serious business of performing a good test program so I can have some solid numbers to post in the future. I am planning to fly to the gathering in Perry and will bring the builders logs and picture book along. Also will be selling a number of instruments, a cowling and other various parts that didn't get used in the project for one reason or another. Now get out there and build a better airplane. Jeff - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:39:04 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR:Finally finished Hey everyone! I finally finished cutting and gluing all of the gussets for the fuselage sides! I am glad that I have finished them. Now I can begin framing up the fuselage and I will finally be able to see some real progress (In my eyes anyway!). The main reason that I finished them was the result of seeing the pictures of Jeff's plane flying and I couldn't stand it. I can't wait until I get to the point of flying my KR. =20 What would really make me get in gear and really get to building would be to get a flight in a KR. I have never flown in one yet. I hope that I can catch a ride soon. Thanks Jeff for all of the motivation to continue on my KR. Brian J Bland bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:55:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR:Finally finished/Need a ride >What would really make me get in gear and really get to building would >be to get a flight in a KR. I have never flown in one yet. I hope >that I can catch a ride soon. > >Brian J Bland >bbland@busprod.com > WELLLLLLLLL. Where are you Brian? I am at least a month away from giving rides. But someone else may be able to help you. Give us more info. I know that Troy Petteway was very gracious is allowing me to FLY his plane back in December. Now if you weigh 300 pounds I may have to claim brake problems :) Ron "Not a real KRPOA member yet" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:23:18 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: Re: KR:Finally finished Geez, wives all over the country are gonna hate me. :o) Glad I could lend some motivation, but if you really want to get cranked up, don't miss the KR Gathering in Perry. Keep building those parts Brian. When the items left to be finished will fit on two pages, you won't need any more motivation cause you'll provide plenty for yourself. - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:39:04 GMT bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) writes: >Hey everyone! > >I finally finished cutting and gluing all of the gussets for the >fuselage sides! I am glad that I have finished them. Now I can begin >framing up the fuselage and I will finally be able to see some real >progress (In my eyes anyway!). > >The main reason that I finished them was the result of seeing the >pictures of Jeff's plane flying and I couldn't stand it. I can't wait >until I get to the point of flying my KR. =20 > >What would really make me get in gear and really get to building would >be to get a flight in a KR. I have never flown in one yet. I hope >that I can catch a ride soon. > >Thanks Jeff for all of the motivation to continue on my KR. > >Brian J Bland >bbland@busprod.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:36:04 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR:Finally finished At 02:39 AM 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote: What would really make me get in gear and really get to building would >be to get a flight in a KR. I have never flown in one yet. I hope >that I can catch a ride soon. > Well build as best you can until the gathering and I bet someone will give you a ride! Tonight I did some more sanding on the interior pieces of my KR in preparation for painting. I microed my instrument panel and sanded it down as smooth as aluminum! Everything else is ready for its splatter paint treatment. I was seriously considering splatter painting the instrument panel too and then painting flat black over the splatter job, has anyone else done this? Did you like it? I asked a question about painting this early in the project and some of you builders said go for it so I take that to mean you have no regrets! I just don't see how it will be possible to paint once the windows and windshield are installed. I guess just being extra careful about epoxy drips and scratches will be in order from now on! I will paint tomorrow and repaint the black on the panel Saturday morning. Then I will carefully install the rear spar (holes already cut) and the sling seat Sunday. Heck I will be able to climb in and make airplane noises sometime next week! :-) I will upload some pictures Sunday night for those of you following my web site. I am trying really hard to be at the same stage in construction that Jeff was at when he attended the 96 gathering, that way I KNOW I can make the 98 gathering! I cant believe the amount of work you accomplished in the short time since I last saw you Jeff! What an inspiration! I bet your really tired of hearing that by now hu? :-) _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:22:01 -0600 From: jeb@laintra.com (John Bryhan) Subject: Re: KR: Soob engine. I got mine from a importer out of Houston from Japan they have a law about running engines past 30k miles so it's pretty new/good condition. Price: $650 that's with the turbo the Fuel Injection and the computer Out of a car??? mileage?? price seems steep John jeb@laintra.com www.laintra.com/jeb/krpage.htm ---- From: brian whatcott To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, June 12, 1997 6:57 PM Subject: Re: KR: Soob engine. >A 50% price cut?? >brian > > >At 02:34 6/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I'm going to try again. I have a chance to buy an EA81 from a car. The >>man wants $575 delivered with a 30 da. warranty. No core. Anything >>special I should look for? >> >>-- >>Bob >>rdlitty@infinet.com >>littyrd@muohio.edu >>rdlitty@mumr2.mid.muohio.edu >> >> >brian whatcott >Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:28:42 -0400 (EDT) From: RJMOTLF@aol.com Subject: Re: KR:Finally finished what r the dates for perry i grew up there Ralph Marriott 3216 nw 31st okc,ok 73112 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:06:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Soob engine. In a message dated 97-06-12 22:16:21 EDT, you write: << At 02:34 6/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm going to try again. I have a chance to buy an EA81 from a car. The >man wants $575 delivered with a 30 da. warranty. No core. Anything >special I should look for? >> Shoot Bob, this wasn't one of the import program engines? This is WAY too much money core or no core. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:16:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: max firewall HP In a message dated 97-06-13 03:32:29 EDT, you write: << I think the kr design will accomodate what I want, and perform better than cesna 150. If you want to get into high performance the kr is the best buy for the money hands down but it has to be built >> Hi Gene, I'm already flying a Sonerai that appears to be at least an average performer or better. A powered back cruise yields about 130mph while a max effort does better than 150. My questions about the KR relate to my love of building with wood. I'm currently working on a Horizon 2 and just starting a pair of 12 meter Woodstock sailplanes. The jig table's gonna be empty, I have this pile of spruce, fir and pine along with the stock KR-2 plans.....I was asking if it would make sense to beef up the structure for the 100hp limit and simply stretch the fuselage without building anything else about the 2S. I also don't want to send Jeannette any more money for "fill in the blank" drawings. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:26:36 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Janssen Craig) Subject: Re: KR:Finally finished At 01:28 AM 6/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >what r the dates for perry i grew up there >Ralph Marriott >3216 nw 31st okc,ok 73112 > dates r sept 19,20,21 Ed J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:13:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Mims's Seat Sling >Then I will carefully install the rear spar (holes already cut) and the >sling seat Sunday. Heck I will be able to climb in and make airplane noises >sometime next week! :-) > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Michael, just a comment on the sling. The one in N133RM is almost taut from the rear spar to the front...such that there is about 2" (maybe a little more) to the bottom skin. I am going to have to resew it so that I have more head room. I also believe that Troy's sling was almost touching the bottom skin. Ron (Only 5'10" and I still need more head room) Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:33:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Lowrance GPS now $699 Noticed the $200 price drop in the first June 97 issue last night. Thought it was a typo until I saw another ad with the same price. It matches the price of the new Magellan Skystar. Wonder how long the Garmin GPSMAP-195 will stay at $1199. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:16:01 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Lowrance GPS now $699 Ron Lee wrote: > > Noticed the $200 price drop in the first June 97 issue last > night. Thought it was a typo until I saw another ad with the > same price. It matches the price of the new Magellan Skystar. > > Wonder how long the Garmin GPSMAP-195 will stay at $1199. The July issue of Private Pilot has a side by side comparison of four handheld GPS units. The Garmin 195, Lowrance, King GPS/Comm and Apollo Precedus. Good review for me because it was slanted more toward the usability of the unit, not a lot of techie jargon. After reading it, if the price were equal, I'd buy the Garmin. For $500 difference, I'd buy the Lowrance in a heartbeat. Biggest squawk they had on it was the lack of a fancy yoke mount(I'd rather fly with a stick anyway). Lowrance supplies velco for yoke attachment. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:01:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Mims's Seat Sling At 07:13 AM 6/13/97 -0600, you wrote: >Michael, just a comment on the sling. The one in N133RM is almost taut from the rear spar to the front...such that there is about 2" (maybe a >little more) to the bottom skin. I am going to have to resew it so >that I have more head room. I also believe that Troy's sling was almost touching the bottom skin. > >Ron (Only 5'10" and I still need more head room) Lee > > Thanks! My plan was to mount it so it was about 1 inch from the bottom skin, if I can see over the panel I will just add more foam to the seat cushion. My canopy has a ton and a half on the headroom side though! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:20:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Lowrance GPS now $699 I neglected to say I was looking at Trade A plane. Also check this URL for another review of GPS units: http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/avionics/gpsround.html Ron (Natural navigation - "Rand McNally" ) Lee >> Noticed the $200 price drop in the first June 97 issue last >> night. Thought it was a typo until I saw another ad with the >> same price. It matches the price of the new Magellan Skystar. >> >> Wonder how long the Garmin GPSMAP-195 will stay at $1199. > >The July issue of Private Pilot has a side by side comparison of four >handheld GPS units. The Garmin 195, Lowrance, King GPS/Comm and Apollo >Precedus. Good review for me because it was slanted more toward the >usability of the unit, not a lot of techie jargon. After reading it, if >the price were equal, I'd buy the Garmin. For $500 difference, I'd buy >the Lowrance in a heartbeat. Biggest squawk they had on it was the lack >of a fancy yoke mount(I'd rather fly with a stick anyway). Lowrance >supplies velco for yoke attachment. > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:40:09 -0300 From: jsellars@auracom.com Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies!!! Congradulations: I have a question arising from your analysis, Besides design complications etc. to what do you attribute the nose up trim requirement you mentioned ? Is it that you were going too slow for the plane, and therefore needing nose high trim to maintain level flight ? Again congrads! ! Regards: Jim At 01:34 AM 11/06/97 EDT, you wrote: >Ladies, Gentlemen, and other Netheads, > >This is the other post that it seems that I have been waiting for years >to make. > >This evening June 10, 1997, after what seems like an eternity of >building, N1213W finally took flight from the main runway at Santa Fe, >New Mexico. As they say, "A day I shall always remember." > >Before I get into the analysis of the first flight, I would like to first >publicly thank my wife, Becky and my sons, Curtis and Matthew for their >unending understanding, patience and assistance as I have spent evenings, >weekends and the vacation money for the last few years out in the garage >building this flying machine. I would also like to publicly thank John >Bryhan for his assistance in getting this machine off the ground and many >hours put in as the second set of hands, ground support, and >photographer. > > >First Flight Analysis: > >For those that may not be familiar with my plane, it is a KR-2S that was >started prior to the release of the KR-2S addendum from Rand Robinson. >It has the extra (ala KR-2S) 14" bay in the tail, but has a standard KR-2 >tail, the 3" longer RR KR-2S/O-200 engine mount, a C-85 powerplant, and >no flaps/bellyboard/spoilers. > >As I had suspected after my high speed taxi tests on Sunday, this plane >is very sensitive on the elevator. After takeoff rotation, I immediately >stairstepped the plane up the first couple of hundred feet while trying >to get a feel for the elevator. In my opinion, this could be fixed by >the addition of more horizontal stabilizer, whether it be strakes forward >from the horizontal stab or just adding onto the horiontal stab. Even >taking off from Santa Fe (6344ASL), the plane climbed comfortably up to >10,000 feet where I leveled out and played with the slow flight >charactoristics in preparation for trying to get it back onto the ground. > I found the ailerons and rudder to be very easy and comfortable >throughout the tested range (60 - 130mph IAS at 10,000ft), but the >elevator to be easy to overcontrol especially at slower speeds. I'll let >those that are better with the whiz wheels tell me what my tested speed >trues out to, but I would guess 145 - 150 mph TAS. > >One thing that surprised me is that there is little difference in the >feel of the plane or the noise level between 70 and 120 mph indicated. I >have to look at the airspeed indicator and believe what it is saying, >because I can't feel it in the plane. > >First landing attempt turned into a go around as I approached by feel >rather than using the airspeed indicator and flew the approach WAY to >hot. Once I started to get the plane slowed down, I got into a degrading >case of pilot induced oscillations as I bounced in and out of ground >effect. I finally decided it was time to go around for another shot at >it. On the second approach, I flew the plane by the numbers I had in my >head from playing with slowflight up at 10,000 feet. Approach at 70, >over the fence at 60, 55 over the numbers, bleed the rest off while >pulling the nose up to stall it in. A very smooth (and very blind) three >point landing. Just like landing from the backseat of my champ. > >All temps and pressures ran in the green throughout the flight. 2300rpm >during climbout. 2500 if I wanted to push it in level flight. >Engine/prop performance was perfect! > >Postflight walkaround revealed that my new glass spinner had a 2" crack >in it from the first flight. I thought it was kind of flimsy to start >with. We'll have to see if A/C spruce will take it back. The rest of >the plane appeared to be in excellent condition, but it will get a >thorough inspection before it flies again. > >One other problem is that I flew most of the time with full nose up trim. > As the re-engineering guys have been saying for the last year, this >plane really needs less incidence, or it needs to have the nose of the >horizontal stabilizer mounted a bit higher. One fix/workaround on a >finished airplane is to add additional trim to the bottom of the >elevator, but the ultimate solution would to be to engineer it correctly >in the first place. This is a point where Mark Langford's moveable >horizontal stab would be VERY valuable. At any rate, the wings and the >horizontal stabilizer don't seem to be well matched. > >All in all, it was a successful first flight and I am satisfied with my >flying machine even though I can see where it could use some improvement. > As the newsman says, tune in at 5 for pictures. John Bryhan was flying >as a passenger in the chase plane and was able to shoot several pictures >with his telephoto lense. A trip to one hour photo mart tomorrow and he >should have some scanned and posted to his website sometime tomorrow >afternoon. That's "http://www.laintra.com/jeb/krpage.htm" > >Jeff "it finally flew" Scott >---- >Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com >See construction of KR-2S N1213W at >http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html >---- > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:57:51 -0300 From: jsellars@auracom.com Subject: Re: KR: Soob engine. Hello Bob: I would ask how many miles on the engine. But I would also ask around about getting something cheaper. Again I will tell you I think Dave Johnson of Reductions based in Dugal, Manitoba, he's got a home page, is a pretty good deal. I have a EA 81 for fifty dollars. Look around. Reagrds: Jim At 02:34 AM 08/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm going to try again. I have a chance to buy an EA81 from a car. The >man wants $575 delivered with a 30 da. warranty. No core. Anything >special I should look for? > >-- >Bob >rdlitty@infinet.com >littyrd@muohio.edu >rdlitty@mumr2.mid.muohio.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:38:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Non-builder Plane Maintenance In a message dated 6/13/97 4:25:08 AM, you wrote: <> This is why there has been so much controversy over the "hired gun" builders who do the work and deliver your finished homebuilt. FAA is cracking down on them because they don't want a pilot who is not intimately familiar with the aircraft to do any maintenance other than what part 43 allows. Shoot, there wouldn't even be a need for certification of factory aircraft it owners were allowed to do unrestricted work on the bird. Factory would just call it an experimental and be done with it. Of course this certainly would improve the gene pool of the pilot community, not to mention be a big boost to the mortuary industry. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:59:24 -0500 From: robert k adams Subject: Re: KR: Non-builder Plane Maintenance At 02:38 PM 6/13/97 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 6/13/97 4:25:08 AM, you wrote: > >< So Shoot me. > >And yes I realize your FSDO and or results may vary! > >PS part 43 is fairly restrictive, you cant even remove a propeller!>> > >This is why there has been so much controversy over the "hired gun" builders >who do the work and deliver your finished homebuilt. FAA is cracking down on >them because they don't want a pilot who is not intimately familiar with the >aircraft to do any maintenance other than what part 43 allows. Shoot, there >wouldn't even be a need for certification of factory aircraft it owners were >allowed to do unrestricted work on the bird. Factory would just call it an >experimental and be done with it. Of course this certainly would improve the >gene pool of the pilot community, not to mention be a big boost to the >mortuary industry. > >Steve Horn >Horn2004@aol.com > > > >okay guys i never said unrestricted rebuilding/modifications etc case in point in 1970 i purchased a piper pa16 clipper that needed recovering real bad and was out of anual. i called the local faa inspector and discussed the problem with him, he said i could do all the work myself but he wanted to inspect the airplane before i started, after i had the old cover off, before i closed it up and then a final inspection when done. that is exactly what i did and had no problems whatsoever, the inspections cost me 50 bucks each and 100 for the final inspection, he then made the proper logbook entries that stated my work was acceptable and the aircraft was airworthy. yes you must have at least an a/p check your work at different stages and approve it but you can do the work yourself. bob adams N7057V ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:24:10 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: max firewall HP In a message dated 97-06-13 11:46:40 EDT, you write: << section hinge deatil, hor & vert tail templates, error in vert template), Spar detail drawing, Bob Lasecki >> Hey Bob, what is the "error in vert template" you're talking about. I'm building the 2-S and haven't begun the vertical stab yet. I guess I haven't noticed anything yet nor have I seen any posts yet about an error. Sure don't want to have to do something over or make-do with something. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:54:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Non-builder Plane Maintenance At 02:59 PM 6/13/97 -0500, you wrote: okay guys > i never said unrestricted rebuilding/modifications etc ...... > yes you must have at least an a/p check your work at different stages and >approve it but you can do the work yourself. > > bob adams Yea I know, it was someone else I was trying to introduce to the real FAA! :-) Sorry if it seemed to be directed at you, I guess you could call it a redirection or a deflection of these post (gee sounds like we are talking about hockey!). Yes you can do anything you want to any airplane if the appropriate person with the appropriate license signs off the work. But if and when you buy an experimental that has already been certified as such that doesn't mean you get exercise the rights of the person who built it. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:14:20 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: N1213W Flies!!! I think Jeff's report is confusing you. He says he needs the horiz stab leading edge HIGHER. That means the plane is flying nose high, and so needs max nose DOWN trim. Regards At 12:40 6/13/97 -0300, you wrote: >Congradulations: I have a question arising from your analysis, Besides >design complications etc. to what do you attribute the nose up trim >requirement you mentioned ? Is it that you were going too slow for the >plane, and therefore needing nose high trim to maintain level flight ? >Again congrads! ! >Regards: Jim > > >At 01:34 AM 11/06/97 EDT, you wrote: >>Ladies, Gentlemen, and other Netheads, >> >>This is the other post that it seems that I have been waiting for years >>to make. >> >>This evening June 10, 1997, after what seems like an eternity of >>building, N1213W finally took flight from the main runway at Santa Fe, >>New Mexico. As they say, "A day I shall always remember." >> >>Before I get into the analysis of the first flight, I would like to first >>publicly thank my wife, Becky and my sons, Curtis and Matthew for their >>unending understanding, patience and assistance as I have spent evenings, >>weekends and the vacation money for the last few years out in the garage >>building this flying machine. I would also like to publicly thank John >>Bryhan for his assistance in getting this machine off the ground and many >>hours put in as the second set of hands, ground support, and >>photographer. >> >> >>First Flight Analysis: >> >>For those that may not be familiar with my plane, it is a KR-2S that was >>started prior to the release of the KR-2S addendum from Rand Robinson. >>It has the extra (ala KR-2S) 14" bay in the tail, but has a standard KR-2 >>tail, the 3" longer RR KR-2S/O-200 engine mount, a C-85 powerplant, and >>no flaps/bellyboard/spoilers. >> >>As I had suspected after my high speed taxi tests on Sunday, this plane >>is very sensitive on the elevator. After takeoff rotation, I immediately >>stairstepped the plane up the first couple of hundred feet while trying >>to get a feel for the elevator. In my opinion, this could be fixed by >>the addition of more horizontal stabilizer, whether it be strakes forward >>from the horizontal stab or just adding onto the horiontal stab. Even >>taking off from Santa Fe (6344ASL), the plane climbed comfortably up to >>10,000 feet where I leveled out and played with the slow flight >>charactoristics in preparation for trying to get it back onto the ground. >> I found the ailerons and rudder to be very easy and comfortable >>throughout the tested range (60 - 130mph IAS at 10,000ft), but the >>elevator to be easy to overcontrol especially at slower speeds. I'll let >>those that are better with the whiz wheels tell me what my tested speed >>trues out to, but I would guess 145 - 150 mph TAS. >> >>One thing that surprised me is that there is little difference in the >>feel of the plane or the noise level between 70 and 120 mph indicated. I >>have to look at the airspeed indicator and believe what it is saying, >>because I can't feel it in the plane. >> >>First landing attempt turned into a go around as I approached by feel >>rather than using the airspeed indicator and flew the approach WAY to >>hot. Once I started to get the plane slowed down, I got into a degrading >>case of pilot induced oscillations as I bounced in and out of ground >>effect. I finally decided it was time to go around for another shot at >>it. On the second approach, I flew the plane by the numbers I had in my >>head from playing with slowflight up at 10,000 feet. Approach at 70, >>over the fence at 60, 55 over the numbers, bleed the rest off while >>pulling the nose up to stall it in. A very smooth (and very blind) three >>point landing. Just like landing from the backseat of my champ. >> >>All temps and pressures ran in the green throughout the flight. 2300rpm >>during climbout. 2500 if I wanted to push it in level flight. >>Engine/prop performance was perfect! >> >>Postflight walkaround revealed that my new glass spinner had a 2" crack >>in it from the first flight. I thought it was kind of flimsy to start >>with. We'll have to see if A/C spruce will take it back. The rest of >>the plane appeared to be in excellent condition, but it will get a >>thorough inspection before it flies again. >> >>One other problem is that I flew most of the time with full nose up trim. >> As the re-engineering guys have been saying for the last year, this >>plane really needs less incidence, or it needs to have the nose of the >>horizontal stabilizer mounted a bit higher. One fix/workaround on a >>finished airplane is to add additional trim to the bottom of the >>elevator, but the ultimate solution would to be to engineer it correctly >>in the first place. This is a point where Mark Langford's moveable >>horizontal stab would be VERY valuable. At any rate, the wings and the >>horizontal stabilizer don't seem to be well matched. >> >>All in all, it was a successful first flight and I am satisfied with my >>flying machine even though I can see where it could use some improvement. >> As the newsman says, tune in at 5 for pictures. John Bryhan was flying >>as a passenger in the chase plane and was able to shoot several pictures >>with his telephoto lense. A trip to one hour photo mart tomorrow and he >>should have some scanned and posted to his website sometime tomorrow >>afternoon. That's "http://www.laintra.com/jeb/krpage.htm" >> >>Jeff "it finally flew" Scott >>---- >>Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com >>See construction of KR-2S N1213W at >>http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html >>---- >> >> > > > brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:32:31 -0500 From: robert k adams Subject: Re: KR: Non-builder Plane Maintenance At 01:54 PM 6/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 02:59 PM 6/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >okay guys >> i never said unrestricted rebuilding/modifications etc ...... > >> yes you must have at least an a/p check your work at different stages and >>approve it but you can do the work yourself. >> >> bob adams > >Yea I know, it was someone else I was trying to introduce to the real FAA! :-) > >Sorry if it seemed to be directed at you, I guess you could call it a >redirection or a deflection of these post (gee sounds like we are talking >about hockey!). Yes you can do anything you want to any airplane if the >appropriate person with the appropriate license signs off the work. But if >and when you buy an experimental that has already been certified as such >that doesn't mean you get exercise the rights of the person who built it. > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > >yep you are right anytime you do anything you should have an a/p or other qualified person looking over your shoulder so you do it right, its for your own safety that they made all the rules in the first place bob adams N7057V ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:00:56 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: KR: web site under development We'll is nothing fancy yet, but if you have 5 minutes you can now check out greatplainsas.com steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:03:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Baleco@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: max firewall HP In a message dated 97-06-13 11:46:40 EDT, you write: << The documentation for the gear, forward top deck, fuel tank, turtle deck and canopy sections will all be missing as they are supplied when you buy these "standard" 2S sections from RR. My suggestion is to go for it. >> You mean that documentation you only get if you buy the finished components? Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:58:07 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Non-builder Plane Maintenance robert k adams wrote: > > okay guys > i never said unrestricted rebuilding/modifications etc case in point > in 1970 i purchased a piper pa16 clipper that needed recovering real > bad and was out of anual. > yes you must have at least an a/p check your work at different stages and > approve it but you can do the work yourself. To pick a minor nit, the airplane was out of annual. You can do the work yourself under the supervision of an A&P on a certificated airplane, but the inspector must have an IA to sign off the annual. On a homebuilt that you did not build(no repairman's certificate), you may do all the work under the A&P's supervision and he signs off the yearly condition inspection. The wink and nod that some FSDO's are using relies on the A&P signing for all work done during the year by the owner at the condition inspection. As Mike has so ably pointed out, this is not the letter of the regulation. Ron Wanttaja refers to this as the "Gentlemen's Agreement". Works fine as long as your local FSDO is staffed by gentlemen :o) As always, your milage may vary, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #40 ****************************