From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #44 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, June 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 044 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:19:40 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: Flox Has anyone tried using chopped carbon fibers as flox material? If so, how does it work? Bob Smith, (working on my canopy frame) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:35:17 -0700 From: Ted & Louisa Jones Subject: Re: KR: Masking Tape Residue Removal Bobby Muse wrote: > > At 11:22 AM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Horn2004@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> In a message dated 6/9/97 8:40:41 PM, you wrote: > >> > >> << That's the stuff (the masking tape residue) I need to get off. The > >> electrical tape left no visible residue.>> > >> > >> In the graphic design business, we use a solvent known as Bestine to remove > >> many types of residue. We use it for wax removal as well as the residue that > >> masking tape leaves. It has a very high flash point, evaporates in seconds, > >> and leaves absolutely no residue. > > > >If a solvent evaporates quickly, it usually has a low flash point. Keep > >in mind that "flash point" is the temperature at which a combustible > >liquid will develop sufficient vapors to support combustion. Handle low > >flash point solvents very carefully with regard to possible ignition > >sources especially static electricity when rubbing natural fibers > >against synthetics or plastic. If you use in a well ventilated area, > >then the vapor level should not reach sufficient concentration to be a > >problem. > > > >Just be careful with that stuff! > >Patrick > > > >-- > >Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > > > > Please remenber, if you use solvents on plexiglass that evaporates quickly you will cause youself a bigger problem called 'GLAZING'. > > Glazing is likely to occur if you clean plexiglass with solvents that evaporate quickly. Gasoline will also cause glazing, same reason. > > Bobby Muse > bmuse@mindspring.com KRnet heads: Here is a synopsis of a recent thread from a boating “liveaboard” group which has exhausted the “how do you remove the masking tape/duct tape/ protective film/price tag glue from whatever it’s stuck to. They seem to have covered the bases on solvents vs. tape glue pretty thoroughly. I take no pride of authorship here, and, as always, not everybody knows everything or are they always right (see Mike Mimms’ comments below) Ted (probably not a KR builder just a boat bum) Jones In a private e-mail to Mike Mimms, Ted Jones wrote: > The best one seems to be Goo Off (reported by one as as "Goof Off") which they say is available at supermarkets. I had a can of this stuff in my hands yesterday and was reading the info on the back. The last sentence said "may dull some plastics" so I put it back! Its reported as 100% biodegradable. Mike Mimms >Goof-Off is actually Xylene, available by the quart or gallon from Home Depot among other places. It is a solvent that will dissolve many plastics so beware. When removing sticky stuff I generally start at the "safe" end of a list of solvents and work my way up, ie: water, ammonia, softscrub, denatured alcohol, lighter fluid (naptha), mineral spirits, lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents, similar to acetone but cheaper), xylene, epoxy thinner and finally an expensive solvent called "Attack" that jewelers use to soften cured epoxy when removing epoxied stones from jewelery. Norm S/V Bandersnatch >I have found that WD-40 works well in many cases, but 3M Adhesive Remover seems to do the trick in all cases. Jeff Huntington Caliber 40 Sand Dollar In the nail polish section of your local drug store you will find little packetts of nail polish remover pads. Some of these don't use acetone, but are still very effective for removing all kinds of goo - as well as wiping the black marks off the hull that get there when you rub against the dock bumpers. We keep a bunch of these aboard Sand Dollar for quick and easy clean-up. Try them, you will like them! Jeff Huntington Caliber 40 > Does anyone have suggestions for removing glue/adhesive (from the > back of sticky tape) from fibreglass and particularly stainless > steel? >WD40 works pretty well for me, although a peculiar odor that my wife hates. I've also use it to get "price tag goo" off plastic items (CD cases, for example) and glass. >-Craig Haggart >haggart@slac.stanford.edu >A product called Goo Gone is not a solvent and has removed any goo I have ever gone after. It is a lubricant similar to WD40 (which sometimes also works for goo removal) in feel, that coats the goo as it is removed keeping it from sticking back down. >Jim I. >"80% of success is showing up" Woody Allen 1970 XKE 2+2, 1985 XJS, 1985 XJ6, 1974 Bricklin, 1979 Lola Formula Atlantic 1978 Roberts 44' steel ketch, "Millennium Falcon" I think this guy needs a KR, or maybe a Lancair -- tj ;-] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:17:31 -0500 From: "Rick Hanson" Subject: KR: Re: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance How much maintenance can an owner do on a purchased expermintal aircraft. Does he fall under the same FAR? - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Cc: bbhale@pacbell.net; DBFNSPUD@aol.com > Subject: KR: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 10:56 AM > > Hello Everyone, I got a response from the EAA concerning the maintenance > thing, according to them, the "do anything you want" (except annual > inspection) crew wins! If this is true (and I wish every FSDO thought so), > I have known and met a lot of misinformed people throughout my dealings with > the homebuilt movement (15 years) I am keeping a copy of this to send to my > local FSDO to get his response. There is a .txt file attached to this email. > > Ross, sorry for the attachment but I think everyone would want this. > > Spud, I think this may be something you want to share with the Dragonfly crew. > > PS I think I will sell my project and buy one that is already built if this > is the case! Why waste all this time building when I could be flying in a > month or two? :-) > > > > >Dear Michael, > > > >Thank you for your e-mail. You have asked some good questions. > > > >First, the only people that can perform an annual condition inspection > >on a homebuilt are an A&P and the holder of the Repairman's Certificate > >for that aircraft. The original builder usually holds this certificate > >because he is the only one with enough experience on the aircraft to > >qualify for it. He is the only one with the Repairman's Certificate for > >that aircraft and only for that aircraft. He must obtain another > >certificate for another aircraft if he has built one. > > > >Second, anyone can make any modifications to an experimental aircraft at > >any time. This includes the builder and any and all subsequent > >owners/non-builders. The catch is that if the modification constitutes > >a "major change" as defined by the FAA in AC 20-27D, approval must be > >requested ahead of time by a FSDO for the mod. and for the required > >change in the Special Airworthiness Certificate for that experimental > >aircraft. This is because a major change may alter the operating > >limits/characteristics which must be accounted for on the airworthiness > >certificate's operating limits. > > > >The new owner is not limited to FAR Pt. 43 maintenance regulations. He > >can rebuild the engine, repaint the aircraft, remove and replace the > >controls, prop., etc. The individual who already purchased a homebuilt > >and is considering modifying is legally allowed to do so. It may not be > >a good idea if he has no knowledge of the aircraft, but that all depends > >on what mods. he is considering making. > > > >I have attached a Craftsman's Corner article written by Ben Owen > >entitled "The Rules are Tools" to help shed some more light on this. > >Although there are no FAR's governing experimental aircraft, some FAR's > >do encompass experimental airworthiness certificates. I have attached a > >list of these following the article. If you have any questions or > >concerns please write back. Thank you for contacting Information > >Services. > > > >Regards, > >EAA > >Salman Ahmad, Rep. > >Information Services > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:11:27 EDT From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E. Scott) Subject: KR: Re: KR-2: Turbo-prop KR-2 On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 06:22:04 -0700 enewbold@sprynet.com writes: >Hi folks. I just received this message from a gent seeking specific information >which I don't have. Can anyone help him? Thanks. >Ed Newbold > ><---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:57:45 -0700 >From: Michael Kuhn >Reply-To: peeweebets@worldnet.att.net >To: enewbold@sprynet.com >Subject: Turbo-prop KR-2 > >Do you happen to know the guy with the turbo-prop KR-2? His name is >Steve and I'd really like to have him get ahold of me so I could ask him >some questions about his plane and the engine installation. Help me if >you can, or pass this message on wherever you think it might need to go, >please! Thanks, Mike Kuhn, 509 534 7660 days pst 8-4:30 OR 509 328 5840 >eves. Mike Kuhn, 1517 W. Jackon ave, Spokane, WA., 99205, Thanks!!!!! > ><---- End Forwarded Message ----> > > There was an article complete with some pictures of this plane in either Sport Aviation or Kitplanes sometime last winter. As yet, I haven't been able to lay my hands on it, but it surely must be in my archives somewhere. Maybe someone better organized than me can find it. FWIW, Steve was at the Pine Bluff gathering sans his turbo KR. Randy Stein, myself and some others chatted with him about his airplane. - ---- Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com See construction of KR-2S N1213W at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:19:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Flox At 04:19 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Has anyone tried using chopped carbon fibers as flox material? If so, >how does it work? >Bob Smith, (working on my canopy frame) > Carbon can be a pain to sand and cut! I see no reason why it wouldn't be as strong or stronger than flocked cotton. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:28:24 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance At 04:17 AM 6/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >How much maintenance can an owner do on a purchased expermintal aircraft. >Does he fall under the same FAR? Well that was my question to the EAA and their answer is a new owner can do anything he wants but will need an A&P or the builder to sign off the annual inspection. If any major modifications are done a letter must be submitted to the FAA ( Local FSDO) stating the mod and your projected effect on aircraft performance. Although after review the FAA could say sorry, this change will require another test period so no passengers for the next xx hours! My local FSDO doesn't buy the "do what you want" clause in any case so by submitting your letter to him could cause you to get into all kinds of red tape and losing the aircrafts certification while its cleared up! Unfortunately its another case of "Just do it and don't tell the FAA" _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:41:24 -0400 From: "Jim Fields" Subject: Re: KR: Flox In regard to carbon fiber... It is great for the light weight/strength considerations, but there is no free lunch. It is an incredibly high risk, I do mean high, material to sand, grind or cut. Extreme caution should be used for proper air exchange and air filtration. I have read articles that refer to life time respiratory consequences where proper respirators/air supply was not adhered to. For more information contact the fibers and finish people at Aircraft Spruce. They did not pay me to say that. These guys are helpful.... Take care, Jim SKYTECH Innovations, Inc. Mail To: skytech@iserv.net - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Flox > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 9:19 PM > > At 04:19 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Has anyone tried using chopped carbon fibers as flox material? If so, > >how does it work? > >Bob Smith, (working on my canopy frame) > > > > Carbon can be a pain to sand and cut! I see no reason why it wouldn't be as > strong or stronger than flocked cotton. > > _______________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:16:14 -0500 From: "Brad J. Boss" Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR-2: Turbo-prop KR-2 Jeffrey E. Scott wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 06:22:04 -0700 enewbold@sprynet.com writes: > >Hi folks. I just received this message from a gent seeking specific > information > >which I don't have. Can anyone help him? Thanks. > >Ed Newbold > > > ><---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> > >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:57:45 -0700 > >From: Michael Kuhn > >Reply-To: peeweebets@worldnet.att.net > >To: enewbold@sprynet.com > >Subject: Turbo-prop KR-2 > > > >Do you happen to know the guy with the turbo-prop KR-2? His name is > >Steve and I'd really like to have him get ahold of me so I could ask him > >some questions about his plane and the engine installation. Help me if > >you can, or pass this message on wherever you think it might need to go, > >please! Thanks, Mike Kuhn, 509 534 7660 days pst 8-4:30 OR 509 328 5840 > >eves. Mike Kuhn, 1517 W. Jackon ave, Spokane, WA., 99205, Thanks!!!!! > > > ><---- End Forwarded Message ----> > > > > > There was an article complete with some pictures of this plane in either > Sport Aviation or Kitplanes sometime last winter. As yet, I haven't been > able to lay my hands on it, but it surely must be in my archives > somewhere. Maybe someone better organized than me can find it. > > FWIW, Steve was at the Pine Bluff gathering sans his turbo KR. Randy > Stein, myself and some others chatted with him about his airplane. > > ---- > Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com > See construction of KR-2S N1213W at > http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html > ---- Hello there. I have that copy of Kitplanes with Steve Trentmans KR-2T. It was in the January 1997 copy and appears on page 4. It's a good article and I recommend getting a back copy. According to the magazine, Steven Trentman can be reached at 14953 E. 97th St. North, Owasso, OK 74055: Phone is listed as (918) 272-7775. Hope it helps you out. Brad Boss bossman@sprintmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Beechwings@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: KRnet * * * help wanted * * * Hi folks! I'm new to the group. My name is Scott Morgan. I live in Houston and would like to get some information from the group if possible. 1. Is there a builders presence in this area ? 2. Can anyone provide me with some cost analysis on building from scratch versus buying kit parts from RR. 3. What engine options do I really have. 4. What are some realistic build times. Thanks for your reply in advance Regards to all Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:35:53 -0500 From: "Rick Hanson" Subject: Re: KR: Re: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance I was under the impression that a purchased experimental aircraft was treated maintenance wise as a certified aircraft because the owner was not the builder. - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 8:28 PM > > At 04:17 AM 6/16/97 -0500, you wrote: > >How much maintenance can an owner do on a purchased expermintal aircraft. > >Does he fall under the same FAR? > > > Well that was my question to the EAA and their answer is a new owner can do > anything he wants but will need an A&P or the builder to sign off the annual > inspection. If any major modifications are done a letter must be submitted > to the FAA ( Local FSDO) stating the mod and your projected effect on > aircraft performance. Although after review the FAA could say sorry, this > change will require another test period so no passengers for the next xx hours! > > My local FSDO doesn't buy the "do what you want" clause in any case so by > submitting your letter to him could cause you to get into all kinds of red > tape and losing the aircrafts certification while its cleared up! > Unfortunately its another case of "Just do it and don't tell the FAA" > > _______________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:11:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: RE: Homebuilt Aircraft and Maintenance At 07:35 AM 6/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >I was under the impression that a purchased experimental aircraft was >treated maintenance wise as a certified aircraft because the owner was not >the builder. > Me too and I still am because that's the way my local FSDO sees it! He's been doing it for years and I don't think a reply from the EAA or anyone else beside the almighty FAA will change his mind! But I guess you could keep a copy of that memo and at least you would have something to back up your argument. Better than just telling the inspector "well so in so said"! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:37:20 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR-2: Turbo-prop KR-2 On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:11:27 EDT, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 06:22:04 -0700 enewbold@sprynet.com writes: >>Hi folks. I just received this message from a gent seeking specific >information=20 >>which I don't have. Can anyone help him? Thanks. >>Ed Newbold >> >><---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> >>Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:57:45 -0700 >>From: Michael Kuhn >>Reply-To: peeweebets@worldnet.att.net >>To: enewbold@sprynet.com >>Subject: Turbo-prop KR-2 >> >>Do you happen to know the guy with the turbo-prop KR-2? His name is >>Steve and I'd really like to have him get ahold of me so I could ask = him >>some questions about his plane and the engine installation. Help me if >>you can, or pass this message on wherever you think it might need to = go, >>please! Thanks, Mike Kuhn, 509 534 7660 days pst 8-4:30 OR 509 328 5840 >>eves. Mike Kuhn, 1517 W. Jackon ave, Spokane, WA., 99205, Thanks!!!!! >> >><---- End Forwarded Message ----> >> >> >There was an article complete with some pictures of this plane in either >Sport Aviation or Kitplanes sometime last winter. As yet, I haven't = been >able to lay my hands on it, but it surely must be in my archives >somewhere. Maybe someone better organized than me can find it. > >FWIW, Steve was at the Pine Bluff gathering sans his turbo KR. Randy >Stein, myself and some others chatted with him about his airplane. > >---- >Jeffrey Scott jscott.pilot@juno.com >See construction of KR-2S N1213W at >http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html >---- > > Hey everyone! I e-mailed Michael directly about how to contact Steve Trentman. If anyone else needs this info just e-mail me direct. BTW, January 1997 issue of Kitplanes has the article if anyone is interested. Brian J Bland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: How many KR's @ OSH '97? At 05:05 PM 6/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >I'm trying to justify the trip to Oshkosh this year (yeah right!) > >Back in March, a thread discussed the 25th anniversary of the KR at >Oshkosh, but no one specified whether they planned to attend. Now that it >is closer at hand, > >Who's going to Oshkosh this year? > > >bou >KR2S - cutting gussets for the second first fuse side... >John/Johnna Bouyea >johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > > Does anyone know the dates that will be important to the KR community? I can only attend for a day and want to know if KRs will be there for the whole show or just certain days?? Regards: Dennis (never been to Oshkosh) Ambrose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:29:35 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: KRnet * * * help wanted * * * At 10:53 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi folks! I'm new to the group. My name is Scott Morgan. I live in Houston and would like to get some information from the group if possible. Hi Scott and welcome to our world! I don't think AOLs internet browser supports frames so check this page to see if there are any builders listed in your area: http://members.aol.com/misshellm/KRlist.html as far as your other questions, you will get a varying opinions but here is what I have experienced: >1. Is there a builders presence in this area ? check: http://members.aol.com/misshellm/KRlist.html >2. Can anyone provide me with some cost analysis on building from scratch versus buying kit parts from RR. You can build almost 100% of a KR1, 2, or 2S from scratch. You do not need all the pre molded wingskins or turtledecks from RR although they make life a lot easier! (so far my KR2S is scratch built, see my web site) >3. What engine options do I really have. I think just about anything you can fit under the cowl that weighs less than 250lbs or makes 120hp or less. Engines listed by RR are, VW2180, Soob E-81, Cont O-200, Lyc O-235. I see no reason a Geo metro, Saturn, Rotax, Hirth, or any other engine in the right HP and weight range wouldn't work. I think by far the best engine choice is the O-200 Cont. and that's hard to argue except the money part, but then again money is no object right?! :-) >4. What are some realistic build times. > I think if you have all the required material and time to work on your project a couple of hours every other night and six or eight hours a weekend you could build one in 2 years easy! (that works out to about 1200 hours) If you haven't already I would suggest checking out the various web sites, you can get to them all from my site. The URL is listed below my name. _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:17:03 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: KRnet * * * help wanted * * * In a message dated 97-06-18 22:59:57 EDT, Scott Morgan wrote: << 1. Is there a builders presence in this area ? 2. Can anyone provide me with some cost analysis on building from scratch versus buying kit parts from RR. 3. What engine options do I really have. 4. What are some realistic build times. >> Check out Carlos Sa's web page at http://www.axess.com/users/wings He has a plethora of information and links to other KR sites and files on his page, including a spreadsheet I put together some time ago that is a good starting point for cost estimating. He also put together a database of KR builders and fliers, which is also accessable through his web page. Let me know if you need any further assistance. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:22:45 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: KR Dreaming,..A KR51S? I was just sitting in my KR measuring things to see if a center console is practical or if I should just make it one big bench type seat all the way across, and I started another KR dream! After this project I think I will build a KR51S using the KR2S pans but only making the fuselage about 24 inches wide, shape the wing and tail feathers to match a P-51, use the NLF airfoil, 140hp inline engine of some sort (check the P-38 on Reductions web page), four balde Warp Drive prop, inward retracting landing gear ( I would have enough room with the narrow fuselage), a retractable tailwheel, a bubble canopy from a KR1, of course a belly scoop for the radiator and exhaust stacks coming out the side! Wouldn't it be cool! Think I would still be allowed to come to the KR gathering? :-) Whose gona build the ME-109 so we can have mock dog fights at the 2002 gathering? Who knows where this could go? How about a twin KR51S like the Twin Mustang? _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:10:32 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR-2: Turbo-prop KR-2 > Hello there. I have that copy of Kitplanes with Steve Trentmans KR-2T. >It was in the January 1997 copy and appears on page 4. It's a good >article and I recommend getting a back copy. According to the magazine, >Steven Trentman can be reached at 14953 E. 97th St. North, Owasso, OK >74055: Phone is listed as (918) 272-7775. >Hope it helps you out. > >Brad Boss >bossman@sprintmail.com > Whatever became of this aircraft? We watched a video (at our EAA Chapter meeting) of the aircraft engine tests, taxi and then first flights. The turbine sounded great. The prop cavitating really made a howl! FRom what I recall they refer to this as a 95hp installation yet it cruised at 135 and ate fuel at 10 gallons per hour. Unique but doesn't seem very practial. Marty Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:21:46 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Flox >Carbon can be a pain to sand and cut! I see no reason why it wouldn't be as >strong or stronger than flocked cotton. > >_______________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > Have you ever worked with the stuff? KEVLAR is a pain to cut and sand. Carbon Fiber is a piece of cake. It's actually easier to work with than E or S glass. Once the Carbon/epoxy have cured, it acts like one solid piece of carbon and machines like it too. The respiratory risk though is real but then breathing the fumes from the epoxy, getting epoxy on the skin, or breathing the dust from working any of the other composite materials is very hazardous as well. Marty Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:00:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Flox On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Micheal Mims wrote: > At 04:19 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Has anyone tried using chopped carbon fibers as flox material? If so, > >how does it work? > >Bob Smith, (working on my canopy frame) > > > > Carbon can be a pain to sand and cut! I see no reason why it wouldn't be as > strong or stronger than flocked cotton. > I would agree with this if we were talking about kevlar but my experience with carbon is that it really isn't any more difficult to cut than a comparable weight glass and you can just as easily sand into the fibers as you can with glass. The sanding dust is at least black instead of the same color as the resin dust, you can at least tell when you are sanding into the carbon. It does make a nice stiff layuo when using cloth. Havent used it in a chopped form but see no reason why its characteristics should change in the chopped form. I use a pair of sissors (is that spelled right?) like the ones issued in the Military for electronic work ;-), and I don't have any problems cutting carbon cloth. I did buy the expensive shears (I think that is spelled right) from Wicks for cutting Kevlar and only use them for cutting kevlar. I have found that kevlar can be cut at the leather stage with a big old nasty butcher knife, I guess the resin supports the fibers so the knife can shear them.. I am really just getting into playing with the advanced fibers so don't take any of this as gospel, get some carbon and kevlar and play around with it your self. You will quickley start to get a feel for where they can be used to advantage. My personnal feelings are that they aren't a direct solution for weight savings rather they can be used to good advantage in allowing you to design the structure so that you can place the strength where it is needed. Resulting structure will probably weigh the same but be vastly stronger and simpler. Without detailed and tedious engineering analysis I like the idea of a greater strength safety margin and then static load test the structures to 200% for peace of mind. Steve newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:41:39 -0400 (EDT) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Reverse Message Order (NO ARCHIVE) Hi, folks - Am I the only one getting the responses to messages before the original message shows up? Every time I get my mail, I get someone's response to someone else's post that I haven't seen yet, and then the original post shows up later in the day, if not the next day..... Is there some kind of conspiracy going on here? Is someone censoring the posts? Are there any more seats on that Heaven's Gate spacecraft...? Like I said, it's above 70 degrees here in St. Charles, and the epoxy is flowing!!! Maybe I should take a little break....... Cheers! Rick "I'll be at Oshkosh Tuesday through Sunday" Junkin EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:56:35 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: KR: Hinge Material Ok Guys, I haven't done anything lately to stir-up the pot so here it goes, Do any of you areo-nautical engineer types tell me what the tensile strength of one of these aluminum hinges on the rudder and elevator would be if they are using a 3/16" bolt as a hinge? Now consider it is held on by two 3/16" bolts through a 5/8" wooden spar, with a doubler. Now of course the weakest part is probably the spar. What do Glasair, Lansair, Velosity, Falco, or any of the other high performance aircraft use? Alumunum or steel? Is there a better way? I know tube and fabric A/C use chromoly tube, how come we use aluminum? Humm! Interesting? Dave Moore David Moore Hesperia,Calif. 92345 Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:27:41 -0700 From: Ted & Louisa Jones Subject: Re: KR: Reverse Message Order (NO ARCHIVE) EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, folks - > > Am I the only one getting the responses to messages before the original > message shows up? Every time I get my mail, I get someone's response to > someone else's post that I haven't seen yet, and then the original post shows > up later in the day, if not the next day..... Is there some kind of > conspiracy going on here? Is someone censoring the posts? Are there any > more seats on that Heaven's Gate spacecraft...? Like I said, it's above 70 > degrees here in St. Charles, and the epoxy is flowing!!! Maybe I should take > a little break....... > > Cheers! > Rick "I'll be at Oshkosh Tuesday through Sunday" Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com Rick, et al: My wife and I are on several forums. Recently, one of hers has been shut down for hours to days. Scuttlebutt blames it on AOL still having overload problems. Ted Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:31:10 -0500 From: "Rick Hanson" Subject: KR: Re: Reverse Message Order (NO ARCHIVE) Is that St. Charles LA? - ---------- > From: EagleGator@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Reverse Message Order (NO ARCHIVE) > Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 4:41 PM > > Hi, folks - > > Am I the only one getting the responses to messages before the original > message shows up? Every time I get my mail, I get someone's response to > someone else's post that I haven't seen yet, and then the original post shows > up later in the day, if not the next day..... Is there some kind of > conspiracy going on here? Is someone censoring the posts? Are there any > more seats on that Heaven's Gate spacecraft...? Like I said, it's above 70 > degrees here in St. Charles, and the epoxy is flowing!!! Maybe I should take > a little break....... > > Cheers! > Rick "I'll be at Oshkosh Tuesday through Sunday" Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:38:23 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Hinge Material David Moore wrote: > > Ok Guys, > I haven't done anything lately to stir-up the pot so here it goes, Do any > of you areo-nautical engineer types tell me what the tensile strength of > one of these aluminum hinges on the rudder and elevator would be if they > are using a 3/16" bolt as a hinge? > Now consider it is held on by two 3/16" bolts through a 5/8" wooden spar, > with a doubler. Now of course the weakest part is probably the spar. > What do Glasair, Lansair, Velosity, Falco, or any of the other high > performance aircraft use? > Alumunum or steel? > Is there a better way? > I know tube and fabric A/C use chromoly tube, how come we use aluminum? > > Humm! Interesting? > > Dave Moore > > David Moore > Hesperia,Calif. 92345 > Turnkey1@MSCOMM.COM I am not an aero engineer, but it seems that the forces on the elevator may be very small. The aircraft is balancing on its CG (read: balancing on the head of a pin) and all that is required is to "tip it" slightly up or down to get the aircraft to climb or descend. Therefore, why would we need steel hinges? Also, I believe that there are no reports of the aluminum hinges being inadequate. Having said that I am feeling very uneasy about drilling larger holes for those oilite bearings. Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:46:20 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: Builder locations In reading KRnet I frequently wonder where some of you are located. I would appreciate it if you would attach your city and state to your signature at the end of the mail every once in a while so we know where you are. Some already do this. just a suggestion. Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 19:23:57 ˙˙˙ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: RE: KR: Builder locations Steve, Johannesburg, South Africa Signs as Steve in SA - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: Cc: Subject: KR: Builder locations Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 9:46AM In reading KRnet I frequently wonder where some of you are located. I would appreciate it if you would attach your city and state to your signature at the end of the mail every once in a while so we know where you are. Some already do this. just a suggestion. Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:02:20 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Dreaming,..A KR51S? In a message dated 97-06-20 04:53:22 EDT, Mike Mims wrote: << ...Whose gona build the ME-109 so we can have mock dog fights at the 2002 gathering? Who knows where this could go? How about a twin KR51S like the Twin Mustang? >> Hey pal, don't you have a plane to finish first????!!!! :-) Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com PS - My communications software crashed and I lost and/or missed the last couple of weeks worth of Emails. So, if anyone sent me anything and I have not responded, try - try again...sorry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Dreaming,..A KR51S? I think W.A.R. beat you to the punch there, Mike. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:27:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Flox At 09:00 AM 6/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Carbon can be a pain to sand and cut! I see no reason why it wouldn't be as strong or stronger than flocked cotton. >> > >I would agree with this if we were talking about kevlar but my experience >with carbon is that it really isn't any more difficult to cut than a >comparable weight glass and you can just as easily sand into the fibers >as you can with glass. The sanding dust is at least black instead of the >same color as the resin dust, you can at least tell when you are sanding >into the carbon. You guys are right I was thinking Kevlar not carbon, sorry!! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:38:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Builder locations At 09:46 AM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >In reading KRnet I frequently wonder where some of you are located. I >would appreciate it if you would attach your city and state to your >signature at the end of the mail every once in a while so we know where >you are. Some already do this. just a suggestion. > >Bob Smith, Albany, NY > OK . Good idea! _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:43:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Dreaming,..A KR51S? At 02:30 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >I think W.A.R. beat you to the punch there, Mike. > >Steve Horn >Horn2004@aol.com > Yea they did but made the mistake of trying to build a business out of it! I would just do it for fun! :-) _______________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:31:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: KR Dreaming,..A KR51S? On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Micheal Mims wrote: > At 02:30 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I think W.A.R. beat you to the punch there, Mike. > > > >Steve Horn > >Horn2004@aol.com > > > > Yea they did but made the mistake of trying to build a business out of it! > I would just do it for fun! :-) > Go for it! I started day dreaming like this after I bought my KR plans but before I started building. The design I am working on, still resembles the FAX I sent you Mike, has moved the engine amidship with a ducted fan impeller but is still in the same design philosophy as the KR. I would like to think it is like something Ken would design today. Steve ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #44 ****************************