From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:22 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n075' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #75 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, August 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 075 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:48:13 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: My friend Brads Osh experience On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:36:21 -0700 Micheal Mims writes: >At 10:58 AM 8/13/97 -0300, you wrote: >>Hello Friends; I'm about to start the finishing process on my project, and >>am curious about two items, 1. What about ultra violet rays and fiberglass >>deterioration, do you know about any product that we could use for the >>primer paint that would protect against this evil. 2. What is the name of >>the new paint product that made the terrific, prise winning Oshkosh, >>dragonfly, and is ti available generally ? >>Look foreward to hearing from you; Jim > > >I think it was good old Dupont Centauri <-spelling? And it was applied with >a el cheepo $50 spray gun! Proof to me its the painter, not the paint that >makes a difference! > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > I also shot my plane with Dupont Centari. For comparison, Centari in my area cost about $120 per gallon compared to $190 for Dupont Imron. Despite the fact that it started raining while painting outside and we never even got to shoot the final coat, it still didn't turn out too bad. Centari flows out very nicely when mixed even close to right. However, when done right, Imron still wins for shine and endurance. Just not by much in my opinion. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:50:51 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Spars Austin Clark wrote: > > I finished closing my spars and want to protect them until I build the > wings. I am considering spreading a thin coat of epoxy on the plywood. I > did this on the inside before closing and it worked fine. Any comments on > this idea or other ways to seal them would be appreciated. > > Austin Clark > Pascagoula Mississippi--------- For what its worth. Epoxy is probably the best thing to seal the wood with. Varnish will also do very well and would be easier and cheaper to apply. If you plan to seal the wood permanantly then you will need more then one coat regardless of using epoxy or varnish. One thin coat of anything will not completely seal it, but one thin coat is far better then no coat. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:56:28 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Handbook??? Sec. 91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry. (b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft-- (1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by Sec. 21.5(see below) of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in Sec. 121.141(see below)(b); and (2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by Sec. 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof. (c) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft unless that aircraft is identified in accordance with part 45 of this chapter. Sec. 21.5 Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual. (a) With each airplane or rotorcraft that was not type certificated with an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and that has had no flight time prior to March 1, 1979, the holder of a Type Certificate (including a Supplemental Type Certificate) or the licensee of a Type Certificate shall make available to the owner at the time of delivery of the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual. (b) The Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual required by paragraph (a) of this section must contain the following information: (1) The operating limitations and information required to be furnished in an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or in manual material, markings, and placards, by the applicable regulations under which the airplane or rotorcraft was type certificated. (2) The maximum ambient atmospheric temperature for which engine cooling was demonstrated must be stated in the performance information section of the Flight Manual, if the applicable regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated do not require ambient temperature on engine cooling operating limitations in the Flight Manual. Sec. 121.141 Airplane flight manual. (a) Each certificate holder shall keep a current approved airplane flight manual for each type of airplane that it operates except for nontransport category airplanes certificated before January 1, 1965. (b) In each airplane required to have an airplane flight manual in paragraph (a) of this section, the certificate holder shall carry either the manual required by Sec. 121.133, if it contains the information required for the applicable flight manual and this information is clearly identified as flight manual requirements, or an approved Airplane Manual. If the certificate holder elects to carry the manual required by Sec. 121.133, the certificate holder may revise the operating procedures sections and modify the presentation of performance data from the applicable flight manual if the revised operating procedures and modified performance date presentation are-- (1) Approved by the Administrator; and (2) Clearly identified as airplane flight manual requirements. Sounds to me like you need a POH, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof. The statement "unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof" is really confusing to say the least! Up until the last sentence it sounds like you need all of the mentioned items but then it says "or any combination thereof" When we were ramp checked in Alaska they always asked for the items I listed in ARROW, we had to have the radio station license because we could fly into Canada, but your results may vary! :o) I have heard from my Experimental flying friends at Chino that the FAA doesn't bug them much! The FARs are just too vague to try and hold someone to a particular ruling when it comes to Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft. WOO HOO!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:03:12 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: project update/Ken Rand >>> Any airplane that kills its primary designer, probably deserves to >>> have a few changes made. >> If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't the airplane's fault at all. >It wasn't the plane's fault. That is a fact. This lie has been misleading people for years, and the Net has apparently given it new life. According to the old newsletters [by memory], Rand died when he ran out of gas fighting headwinds on a trip he'd made before, so he wasn't paying adequate attention to fuel. He was flying VFR on top, and when the engine failed, he plunged into one of the worst snowstorms of the season and crashed. Rescue teams could not immediately go out because the weather was so bad, but Rand died instantly, so they couldn't have helped. Rand's crash clearly was pilot error and not the fault of the plane. In fact, even when engines fail from icing, mag problems, etc., I don't see how these things cannot properly be called the fault of the plane since the engine setup on a homebuilt is up to the builder. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 05:40:32 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Portable Mode-C Transponder? Just wondering, guys, if anyone knows of a portable mode-c transponder setup that could be installed in a KR having the minimal VFR instrumentation? There are lot's of good buys around, but very few have a transponder in them. Thanks. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:58:06 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Handbook??? >When we were ramp checked in Alaska they always asked for the items I listed >in ARROW, we had to have the radio station license because we could fly into >Canada, but your results may vary! :o) > >I have heard from my Experimental flying friends at Chino that the FAA >doesn't bug them much! The FARs are just too vague to try and hold someone >to a particular ruling when it comes to Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft. >WOO HOO!!! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims I have heard (no written proof) that the manual is not needed if it was never developed. However, I will fire up the computer, Windows Write and put a few things down. Example: A few operating procedures, stall speed, Vne, several checklists and so on. Will use my Long-Ez manual as a guide for a start Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:35:33 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: My friend Brads Osh experience Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > > > Turns out the award was a "Champion Award" called a Bronze Lindy, kinda > like 3rd place for Plans Built (scratch built). None the less, its a great > accomplishment! > > ________________________________ I attended the awards that night. First time. Lots of winners were not there to receive their due. The guy who built the KR2 I am re-building got an award for his Kitfox floatplane. I had hoped to meet him and ask a few questions about my project as I suspect what he built and what I got are not in the same configuration. I only saw one KR2 at Osh., although I got there Monday morning of the last week. Sleek looking bird. Can't remember the owner. Seems to me that this one was a record holder of sorts. Made me feel kind of inadequate when I saw the modifications and workmanship. I don't think my bird will ever be a showplane. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 09:05:57 PDT From: "M.C." Haynes Subject: Re: KR: T-88 (was "gussets on bottom crossmembers") Best to make a few test pieces first. (Second best to make a few test pieces later.) If the test breaks in the wood the joint is strong enough. Mike (New guy on hte list) Haynes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Operating Handbook??? In a message dated 97-08-14 09:00:22 EDT, Ron Lee wrote: << I have heard (no written proof) that the manual is not needed if it was never developed. However, I will fire up the computer, Windows Write and put a few things down. Example: A few operating procedures, stall speed, Vne, several checklists and so on. Will use my Long-Ez manual as a guide for a start Ron Lee >> Netheads: The potential for a pretty decent POH is in the works right now. Rick & Jeff have been cohersed into working on one. Don't pester them too much though. I forwarded a 26 page sample (for the Q2) to them as the fondation. Rick told me he was already working on some version of one for the KR, so the sample I sent should truly speed the process. As side note, having a POH and a Test Flight Plan/card established before you are actually done with your project should better lead you through the processes of mentally preparing yourself, as well as help you think through your plane and the related systems/parts that have to function in formation correctly from the very first flight! Don't expect the POH to be completed by the '97 Gathering. We are shooting for the '98 Gathering. I do believe it will happen much, much sooner. Anyone who wishes to contribute/review/critique the KR POH is welcome. Either let Jeff or Rick know by private Email, or let me know. I'm only the coordinator (trouble maker?), and of course, head flame recipient - my flame-proof shorts are now required wearing until after the '97 Gathering. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:25:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Operating Handbook??? At 06:58 AM 8/14/97, you wrote: >I have heard (no written proof) that the manual is not needed if it was never >developed. However, I will fire up the computer, Windows Write and put a >few >things down. > >Example: A few operating procedures, stall speed, Vne, several checklists >and so on. Will use my Long-Ez manual as a guide for a start > >Ron Lee > I realize we are dealing with that "vague area" called Experimentals but the FARs state that an airplane or helicopter manufactured after a certain date has to have an operating manual. They also point out what the contents of the manual should be. I just looked on Landings.com and the revised FARs, In Sec. 91.203 Civil aircraft: Certifications required there is no mention of the Operating Manual. Interesting! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:28:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff At 06:39 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Mike: > >Mark Lougheed had the AR5 tapes. I didn't know this. They just arrived >today in the mail. Do you want them to look at? > >Randy > No not yet. Maybe after the gathering. Well in my research on the air cooled VW I have come to a few conclusions, after reading 200+ accident reports covering VW powered aircraft (airplanes/gyros) I decided there are three major issues concerning reliability of the type 1,2,3 and 4s. We know these little engines are very reliable installed in a car, Marks says he has beat on his for 15 years and I had a Baja that I beat on for 2 years. I didn't have a tachometer installed so I just shifted when it quit pulling (accelerating) and never had a problem. So based on those two examples I know this engine can be made reliable! Heres what Im thinking, rear drive setup will remove the loads from the prop. Removal of all the so called aviation pieces that in my opinion hurt the reliability of the engine (carb, magneto, etc.) and use stock or OEM replacement parts. For example, stock distributor with electronic conversion (hotter spark = more HP) and MSD coil switcher for redundancy (instead of some piece of crap cheepo magneto that doesn't really fit the application anyway), OEM fuel pump, OEM Weber replacement carb or a set of Bings (instead of some piece of crap tractor carb or a 1970s flat slide motorcycle carb cobbled together to have mixture control). And the third thing, COOLING!! Why cant we use the type 2 cooling fan and a plenum made from epoxy and glass or carbon graphite? This is what Porsche did with the Mooney and it worked just fine. A small NACA duct under the engine (nice high pressure area) with a duct that feeds air up and into the fan inlet (faces the firewall) would work great. Sure a little more weight but we can extract more HP now because the cooling issue is gone and our crank aint gona break! Plus a nice smooth cowling with no air inlets to cause cooling drag! I think the trade off is worth it. I really don't feel like I am re0inventing the wheel here because I don't think anyone has tried it yet! They were all to concerned with making it look like an airplane engine instead of just making it work! Mark Langford, where do you figure your thrust line will be in reference to the top longerons? I am thinking a little lower than the plans (do the plans really say where the thrust line is?) call for to give more room on top of the engine for two Bing carbs, sorta like the Rotax 912 setup. PS I never found the AR-5 tapes! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:54:36 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Re: project update/Ken Rand A friend of mine was at the accident that night said the tanks were dry when they examined them. The plane hit a fast rising terrain, and he flew over Apply Valley, Calif. airport which was open. It's called gotta-get-home fever. Dave Moore At 02:03 AM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>> Any airplane that kills its primary designer, probably deserves to >>>> have a few changes made. > >>> If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't the airplane's fault at all. > >>It wasn't the plane's fault. That is a fact. > >This lie has been misleading people for years, and the Net has apparently >given it new life. According to the old newsletters [by memory], Rand died >when he ran out of gas fighting headwinds on a trip he'd made before, so he >wasn't paying adequate attention to fuel. He was flying VFR on top, and when >the engine failed, he plunged into one of the worst snowstorms of the season >and crashed. Rescue teams could not immediately go out because the weather >was so bad, but Rand died instantly, so they couldn't have helped. > >Rand's crash clearly was pilot error and not the fault of the plane. In fact, >even when engines fail from icing, mag problems, etc., I don't see how these >things cannot properly be called the fault of the plane since the engine >setup on a homebuilt is up to the builder. > >Mike Taglieri > > David Moore Turnkey1@mscomm.com Hesperia, California ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:39:31 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff At 04:28 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >No not yet. Maybe after the gathering. Well in my research on the air cooled VW I have come to a few conclusions, after reading 200+ accident reports covering VW powered aircraft (airplanes/gyros) I decided there are three major issues concerning reliability of the type 1,2,3 and 4s. Sorry everyone, that wasnt meant for the list! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:55:09 -0400 (EDT) From: LDeckert@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff In a message dated 97-08-14 20:50:52 EDT, you write: << Mark Langford, where do you figure your thrust line will be in reference to the top longerons? I am thinking a little lower than the plans (do the plans really say where the thrust line is?) call for to give more room on top of the engine for two Bing carbs, sorta like the Rotax 912 setup. PS I never found the AR-5 tapes! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Hi folks, I have a set of supplimental drawings for a continental engine mount. These show the engine center-line as 1 and a half inches below the top longeron. Hope this helps. Larry Deckert kr2s a-building ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:03:04 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff Michael, The Type 4 fan weighs 4 lbs, 12 oz. That includes the integral alternator pulley though, which is handy to have. I'm just not sure that the fan is capable of handling 80% power for very long. Did I ever tell you about the lines of dead buses that we used to get on Monday mornings when I was a VW mechanic in Vegas? They'd climb the hills on the floor, and then let off the gas on the downside, sucking an exhaust valve. So predictable... I plan to do the carbon fiber cooling shroud thing, using the original cooling tin as a mold. But air will come from ram. The fan scheme might work, I don't know. But I'll be putting out 50% more power than the buses that died on the trek to Vegas, so a 200 mph ram would be handy. And proportional to speed, as well. I've got catalogs ordered from FAT and Stephens, and plan to do the engine this winter, when it's a little cold for curing epoxy. This is all going to be trial and error. You might as well try what you think will work, and I'll try mine. Whoever gets the best results will be copied. The more data points, the better... I'll be out of pocket for a few days. A favorite uncle died unexpectedly, so I'm headed "home" for a few days. Will also snag my 71 bus engine that I left down there 10 years ago, soon to be a screamer. All indications are that the Type 4 case is almost impervious to damage, so a set of 103mm pistons/cylinders will be ordered soon, along with the obilgatory forged stroker crank. Prop drive will be, well, original... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: BSHADR@aol.com > Cc: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff > Date: Thursday, August 14, 1997 6:28 PM > > At 06:39 PM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Mike: > > > >Mark Lougheed had the AR5 tapes. I didn't know this. They just arrived > >today in the mail. Do you want them to look at? > > > >Randy > > > > No not yet. Maybe after the gathering. Well in my research on the air cooled > VW I have come to a few conclusions, after reading 200+ accident reports > covering VW powered aircraft (airplanes/gyros) I decided there are three > major issues concerning reliability of the type 1,2,3 and 4s. We know these > little engines are very reliable installed in a car, Marks says he has beat > on his for 15 years and I had a Baja that I beat on for 2 years. I didn't > have a tachometer installed so I just shifted when it quit pulling > (accelerating) and never had a problem. So based on those two examples I > know this engine can be made reliable! > > Heres what Im thinking, rear drive setup will remove the loads from the > prop. Removal of all the so called aviation pieces that in my opinion hurt > the reliability of the engine (carb, magneto, etc.) and use stock or OEM > replacement parts. For example, stock distributor with electronic conversion > (hotter spark = more HP) and MSD coil switcher for redundancy (instead of > some piece of crap cheepo magneto that doesn't really fit the application > anyway), OEM fuel pump, OEM Weber replacement carb or a set of Bings > (instead of some piece of crap tractor carb or a 1970s flat slide motorcycle > carb cobbled together to have mixture control). And the third thing, > COOLING!! Why cant we use the type 2 cooling fan and a plenum made from > epoxy and glass or carbon graphite? This is what Porsche did with the > Mooney and it worked just fine. A small NACA duct under the engine (nice > high pressure area) with a duct that feeds air up and into the fan inlet > (faces the firewall) would work great. Sure a little more weight but we can > extract more HP now because the cooling issue is gone and our crank aint > gona break! Plus a nice smooth cowling with no air inlets to cause cooling > drag! I think the trade off is worth it. I really don't feel like I am > re0inventing the wheel here because I don't think anyone has tried it yet! > They were all to concerned with making it look like an airplane engine > instead of just making it work! > > > Mark Langford, where do you figure your thrust line will be in reference to > the top longerons? I am thinking a little lower than the plans (do the > plans really say where the thrust line is?) call for to give more room on > top of the engine for two Bing carbs, sorta like the Rotax 912 setup. > > PS I never found the AR-5 tapes! :o) > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:15:53 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff Michael Mims wrote: > Mark Langford, where do you figure your thrust line will be in reference to > the top longerons? My CAD model says 5.125" below the longeron, but that's not based on anything concrete, just what makes a nice cowling, so far. I don't remember seeing anything in the plans that would indicate where the thrust line should be, just assumed that the RR engine mount that everybody buys would dictate it. Of course, there are so many variables like header and wing tanks, that the whole issue should really be addressed somewhere in the plans. I'd venture to say that Mark Lougheed is the guru on this subject, as he's devised a method to calculate where it should be, based on geometry and various static CG test results that any bozo could perform. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: LDeckert@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: AR 5 tapes and VW stuff > Date: Thursday, August 14, 1997 9:55 PM > > In a message dated 97-08-14 20:50:52 EDT, you write: > > << > Mark Langford, where do you figure your thrust line will be in reference to > the top longerons? I am thinking a little lower than the plans (do the > plans really say where the thrust line is?) call for to give more room on > top of the engine for two Bing carbs, sorta like the Rotax 912 setup. > > PS I never found the AR-5 tapes! :o) > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > >> > > Hi folks, I have a set of supplimental drawings for a continental engine > mount. These show the engine center-line as 1 and a half inches below the > top longeron. > > Hope this helps. > > Larry Deckert > kr2s a-building > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:11:41 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Web Page update Sports fans! If your bored visit my home page, there is a new image at the top that should stirr up the stew! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:52:54 -0700 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Web Page update Ah yea! I remember my '67 bug, my mechanic told me the fasts way to burn up a VW was to baby it, or disconnect the hoses from the cooling fan. But Mike, isn't a 150 MPH breeze coming into a pressure cowling going to be more effiecent than a cooling fan? Dave Moore At 12:11 AM 8/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >Sports fans! If your bored visit my home page, there is a new image at the >top that should stirr up the stew! :o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ >_____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > > > David Moore Turnkey1@mscomm.com Hesperia, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:39:22 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: My friend Brads Osh experience At 11:36 AM 8/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 10:58 AM 8/13/97 -0300, you wrote: >>Hello Friends; I'm about to start the finishing process on my project, and >>am curious about two items, 1. What about ultra violet rays and fiberglass >>deterioration, do you know about any product that we could use for the >>primer paint that would protect against this evil. 2. What is the name of >>the new paint product that made the terrific, prise winning Oshkosh, >>dragonfly, and is ti available generally ? >>Look foreward to hearing from you; Jim > > >I think it was good old Dupont Centauri <-spelling? And it was applied with >a el cheepo $50 spray gun! Proof to me its the painter, not the paint that >makes a difference! > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > Jim, I don't if you have ever seen my KR but it is now four years old and looks just like it did the day I painted it. It was featured, along with Troy Petteway's KR in Sept'95 issue of 'Sport Aviation'. I'm no painter but N122B's paint looks highly polished, but all that I have ever done the the finish is to wipe down the leading leadings after each flight and wash it about twice a year. The paint is a BaseCoat/ClearCoat from PPG. AS a book I read said 'even a thirteen year old can do a good job with BaseCoat/ClearCoat. I'm proof of that. Paint on the Base Color just the way you want it, correct any mistakes and paint on the Clear. The only problem that I had was trying to determine what was painted with the ClearCoat and what was not. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:39:24 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: KR: Re:KR Gathering Before I order a sectional, would someone tell me on what Sectional is Perry, OK? Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:25:54 -0500 From: Kerry Miller Subject: KR: VW Cooling Fan Hey, guys! Before we get too far into this cooling fan thing, we need to find out how much power the fan uses. I don't remember, but I think I've heard up to 12 HP. I work with a guy who used to be a VW guy, maybe he'll know. It might make for a pretty slick cowling, though! Keep 'em Flying, Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:45:10 -0700 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: KR: PPG Paint Brom Bobby Muse's posting: >I'm no painter, but N122B's paint looks highly polished, but all that >I have ever done the the finish is to wipe down the leading leadings after >each flight and wash it about twice a year. >The paint is a BaseCoat/ClearCoat from PPG. A book I read said even >a thirteen year old can do a good job with BaseCoat/ClearCoat. I'm >proof of that. Paint on the Base Color just the way you want it, correct >any mistakes and paint on the Clear. The only problem that I had was trying >to determine what was painted with the ClearCoat and what was not. Sounds really good. What is PPG? This sounds like the way to go. I assume it's good for aluminum, wood and fibreglass surfaces? Thanks. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH enewbold@sprynet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:27:09 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Re: Gathering & Sectional At 05:39 97/8/15 -0500, you wrote: >Before I order a sectional, would someone tell me on what Sectional is >Perry, OK? > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > Wichita Ron "Rand MnNally works for mykind of cross-country" Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:47:22 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Almost ready to taxi again Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml I added 3 more pix to the web site. I finished sanding both wing stubs and am ready to prime them. I re-mounted the Revflow carb using a series of flat aluminum brackets. My exhaust system is a one-of-a-kind type, and the manifold is a new design from Revmaster. Sadly, the manifold was not designed for the engine mount I had, so I had to create a lower section myself using parts from the old lower manifold. It works, but the carb was being held on only by the rubber seals used to splice the parts. Not good enough. For engine run-up tests I just supported the whole thing with strapping from the hardware store. The AME was horrified at this and wanted a more secure arrangement. I did have that in mind. Other than the cowel that has to be fitted, and one wing with some glassing to do, I am ready to start the taxi phase. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:42:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Web Page update At 12:52 AM 8/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > Ah yea! I remember my '67 bug, my mechanic told me the fasts way to burn >up a VW was to baby it, or disconnect the hoses from the cooling fan. > But Mike, isn't a 150 MPH breeze coming into a pressure cowling going to >be more effiecent than a cooling fan? > > Well It should be but it seems to me a lot of the head trouble some people have is directly related to cooling. The fan does require some hp to drive and I think it may have its limitations to its cooling efficiency. I have a few questions out to a couple if type 3 experts and I am waiting for their reply before I proceed with it any further. The fan may allow us to make more HP because it should cool better during climb. Its just an idea right now. So far the rear drive setup IS the direction I am going, the fan?? I don't know we shall see! If it was good enough for Porsche and Mooney it should be good enough for me and my KR. :o) Positive Notes using fan 1) Better cooling during climb and high power settings 2) More streamline cowl for better aerodynamic efficiency 3) Integral alternator Negative Aspects 1) More Weight (4.5 pounds) 2) Requires Hp to drive, how much? Dont know yet! Its just my opinion but I think we screwed thie little engine up when we tried to make it look like a C-85! I am trying to set this up so the engine is ran as it was designed. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:53:06 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: VW Cooling Fan >Negative Aspects >1) More Weight (4.5 pounds) >2) Requires Hp to drive, how much? Dont know yet! > Seems the weight up front is a GOOD thing. Since you can delete an obsolete heavy VOR system for a light handheld GPS, the added weight can be easily rationalized for the benefit (CG) it provides. Ron Lee >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:19:05 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: VW Cooling Fan At 11:53 AM 8/15/97, you wrote: >>Negative Aspects >>1) More Weight (4.5 pounds) >>2) Requires Hp to drive, how much? Dont know yet! >> >Seems the weight up front is a GOOD thing. Since you can delete >an obsolete heavy VOR system for a light handheld GPS, the added weight >can be easily rationalized for the benefit (CG) it provides. > >Ron Lee > Well with other trade offs like 4 pound mags for a 1 pound VW distributor I think the weight shouldnt be that big of a deal. No doubt the rear drive will add a few pounds (11 pound flywheel! ARGH!!!) but the benefits far outweigh (<-no pun)the negative aspect of the additional weight. I have a few other weight saving ideas , carbon fiber intake manifolds, and cooling tin among others should also help keep weight down. Excess weight is not good for performance but like you said, a little extra weight up front would help in some ways. I mention the 11 pound flywheel and man I wish we could really lose some weight there! Does anyone know the weight of the flywheels used by Revmaster and or GPASC? I think we could trim a bit of fat in this area by using a custom aluminum unit with a ring gear, it just cost more money! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:18:13 -0700 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: VW Cooling Fan > Well with other trade offs like 4 pound mags for a 1 pound VW distributor I > think the weight shouldnt be that big of a deal. No doubt the rear drive > will add a few pounds (11 pound flywheel! ARGH!!!) but the benefits far > outweigh (<-no pun)the negative aspect of the additional weight. I have a > few other weight saving ideas , carbon fiber intake manifolds, and cooling > tin among others should also help keep weight down. Excess weight is not > good for performance but like you said, a little extra weight up front > would help in some ways. > > I mention the 11 pound flywheel and man I wish we could really lose some > weight there! Does anyone know the weight of the flywheels used by > Revmaster and or GPASC? I think we could trim a bit of fat in this area by > using a custom aluminum unit with a ring gear, it just cost more money! :o) > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand 1)If longer and thicker is better (a KR2S) then no point going after a railroad spike with a tack hammer. 2)Cooling isn't the problem, it is part of the solution however. 3)So what's a little extra weight? Just another design opportunity -- turbocharger maybe? The bigger and better KR2Ss need more reliable pep -- cheap! I think sticking to the VW keeps the price down. Taking the power off the flywheel end of the crankshaft presents the opportunity to build more HP without sending the crank into self destruct mode. More power is easy if you can get rid of the heat. If anyone can find the Blueberry Formula V site, they have a great picture of their cooling "tin" solution. (I lost track of the URL. A bug got my Boolmarks and email a couple of months ago.) The Velocity guys had fiberglas "tin" protecting the big Lycoming on their Fat Albert version at Sun 'n' Fun. I'm not sold on the need for the type 3 cooling fan even though it adds a nice vibration damper. The key is to get even cooling around all the cylinders and an oil cooler to keep the oil below combustion. Then the little bugger won't eat valves or tear up the case when it ejects head bolts through the cowling. Now that that's solved we can install our turbo, as suggested on Michael Mims web site, and make the whole thing worthwhile. Also, redundant ignition may not be a bad thing. When I was pouring over the Great Plains flywheel power-take-off at the Sun 'n' Fun they had a plan to use a mag along with an electronic ignition setup on another set of plugs. Without water jackets, it's no big deal to drill another set of sparkplug holes. No point invitin' trouble with the moonshine flames out. Bruce S. Campbell Tampa de Florida ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #75 ****************************