From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:24 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n079' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #79 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, August 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 079 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:03:18 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: KR BBQ Cool! Too much food and the dog gets to eat. Too little and the dog gets eaten. Count me in! Always kinda liked that K9 flavor. :o) - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:21:55 -0700 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: Re: KR: KR BBQ BBQ sounds good to me, count me in and 2 seven year olds and a 2 year old if there is no baby sitters avail. Tom in Reno NV ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 01:28:28 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: KR BBQ In a message dated 97-08-21 00:23:03 EDT, you write: << BBQ sounds good to me, count me in and 2 seven year olds and a 2 year old if there is no baby sitters avail. >> Tom: I be confused...I have two messages for BBQ that include a total of 2 of you (Tom - You must be a big guy?) and 4 X 7 year olds and 2 X 2 year olds. How can that be? Two sets of 7 year old twins and 1 set of 2 year old twins? Or quad 7 year olds and 1 set of twin 2 year olds, or...nah, me thinks you just sent the message twice to get a better internet rate! :-) At any rate, thanks for the heads up. We'll bring some extra handcuffs to keep the kids under control. Thanx for the response... Randy Stein BSHADR@aol. com Santa Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 05:10:55 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 05:34 PM 8/20/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:10 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Micheal, Please tell us more about MarineTex. >> >> Bobby Muse(N122B) >> bmuse@mindspring.com >> Wimberly, TX >> > >I will pick up a kit and bring it to the gathering. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > I'll take one. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:10:45 +0700 From: "L.Palaniappan" Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? At 06:34 AM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >Jeffrey E Scott wrote: >>=20 >> On Tue, 19 Aug 97 7:30:45 =FF=FF=FF steveb@aviation.denel.co.za writes: >> >Hi Guys >> >Got involved in a discussion about using ones own homebuilt aircraft >> >to obtain a pilots licence. During the discussion the KR2 was >> >mentioned. >> >Any comments about how many of the KR2s built by the owner where used >> >to obtained a pilots licence. >> > >> >Steve in South Africa >> >steveb@aviation.denel.co.za >> > >> At the risk of starting off another flame war, I'll just say that a KR is >> not the appropriate airplane for initial flight training. >>=20 >> ------- >> Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >> jscott.pilot@juno.com >> See N1213W construction and first flight at >> http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: >> //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >I agree. >--=20 Hello=20 This is Palani in Malaysia For the sake of people in in my category i.e' the wannabee KR builders'= without any flying experience , can the KR flying people give us an= intelligent guess.. approximately how many hours of flight trainning and= experience should one have before attempting to fly his own KR as a hobby.? Agreed that KR dual time is important, but how many hours of it will be= considered sufficient? I guess that many of the KR flyers as well as contributors to this group are= experienced pilots having at least several hundreds of flying hours to their credit,= and may be=20 employed within the airline industry itself. Please bear with the fact that such stupid questions are repeated now and= then here. I belong to a category of people who are new to flying and building. =20 People like me will enjoy the KR2S building process because the process of= working with wood, composit will be relatively easy and affordable, but what happens= when=20 we find out that we cannot manage the aircraft after it is built, and= realise that it is=20 meant for very experienced pilots only. Words of advise direct from the experienced KR flyers who have had not much = flying=20 experience earlier to their KR, will be greatly appreciated and thanked. bye Palani "I know ffff,0000,0000Nuts about 0000,0000,ffffPlanes and Next to0000,8080,8080 ffff,0000,0000Nothing about=20 Soobs" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 07:37:35 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? > >This is Palani in Malaysia > >For the sake of people in in my category i.e' the wannabee KR builders' without any flying experience , can the KR flying people give us an intelligent guess.. approximately how many hours of flight trainning and experience should one have before attempting to fly his own >KR as a hobby.? > For starters, Palani, just get started with a good flight instructor and with whatever plane he/she is using. You need to find out if you will really enjoy flying. Your instructor should be able to advise you about your skill level and whether or not you are ready for another type of airplane. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 15:10:27 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: Cc: Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? Date: Thursday, August 21, 1997 7:37AM > >This is Palani in Malaysia > >For the sake of people in in my category i.e' the wannabee KR builders' without any flying experience , can the KR flying people give us an intelligent guess.. approximately how many hours of flight trainning and experience should one have before attempting to fly his own >KR as a hobby.? > For starters, Palani, just get started with a good flight instructor and with whatever plane he/she is using. You need to find out if you will really enjoy flying. Your instructor should be able to advise you about your skill level and whether or not you are ready for another type of airplane. Ed Janssen What Ed says makes good sense to me. Steve in SA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:09:50 -0500 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Prelim Elset: Iridium 21 Aug UT Launch At 22:13 8/19/97, you wrote: >Iridium Launch 4, 21 Aug 97, 00:38 UT >1 99999U 970xxA 97233.09986111 .00000027 00000-0 00000+0 0 14 >2 99999 86.4020 40.9398 0014611 253.5528 277.4218 14.80129216 08 > > Now that's what I call a REALLY data packed krnet note! Good to see that the telecomms houses have realised the virtues of the KR2S-HA (High altitude model...) Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:01:46 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings In a message dated 97-08-18 23:45:18 EDT, you write: << Maybe I got a defective drill bit from Home Depot, but I have to SCREW my bolts into the holes (or BEAT them thru, which I haven't had the guts for yet) after drilling them with my wonderful Vermont American 12" 3/16 bit.>>> The carbide drill bit I got from Home Base has the same effect. I used a Drill Press to drill my aluminum parts and the an3 bolts were a light press fit to say the least! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> I had similar results with mine. I found that 3 different 3/16ths drill bits I had measured .184 or .185 inches while my AN3 bolts measured (the correct) .187 inches. I was very surprised. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:12:16 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings In a message dated 97-08-19 03:44:37 EDT, you write: << You do know it is somewhere near 3/16. Take a micrometer to a hardware store sometime and check several drill bits of the "same" size. Also, a reamer will leave a perfectly round hole that fits the bolt. Drill bits don't. Since I had some alignment problems with the fittings on the wing that was already closed up when I bought the project, I drilled some of the main spar attach holes from 3/8 to almost 7/16 and reamed them out to fit. >> I had a problem with reamers in that I didn't know there was such a thing as a machinist reamer. The plans just said ream the holes so the bolts fit snugly. (Thanks plans!) Reader's Digest version: I enlarged the fittings holes to near 7/16" and had a machine shop ream for my new bolt size which meant they had to order a special size for me. Geez! I didn't realize there were so many "in between" sizes. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:28:06 -0500 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 12:12 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > I had a problem with reamers in that I didn't know there was such a thing >as a machinist reamer. The plans just said ream the holes so the bolts fit >snugly. (Thanks plans!) Reader's Digest version: I enlarged the fittings >holes to near 7/16" and had a machine shop ream for my new bolt size which >meant they had to order a special size for me. Geez! I didn't realize there >were so many "in between" sizes. > >Jim Hayward > It is possible to buy an adjustable reamer which can ream a range of sizes such as 3/8ths to 1/2 inch. I have two. (You need a mic to set them accurately, natch.) Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings In a message dated 97-08-21 06:46:23 EDT, you write: << Micheal, Please tell us more about MarineTex. >> >> Bobby Muse(N122B) >> bmuse@mindspring.com >> Wimberly, TX >> > >I will pick up a kit and bring it to the gathering. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > I'll take one. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX >> MarineTex is common in almost boat supply of any size. I traveled 2 1/2 years on a sail boat and I can tell you we could find it anywhere we went...and we needed it a bunch. A boat is a whole in the water you pour money into to keep water out. (Sorry Ted, I couldn't resist) Boats are like aiplanes and British cars. If you don't like to tinker, you are not going to enjoy ownership. Well...I pretty much annoyed everyone...I guess I'll go move in with NORAD dog now. Please hold the flames until I can find a pair of flame proof shorts for the dog. I ain't giving mine own pair up for him. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:10:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: MarineTex At 12:41 PM 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >MarineTex is common in almost boat supply of any size. I traveled 2 1/2 >years on a sail boat and I can tell you we could find it anywhere we >went...and we needed it a bunch. A boat is a whole in the water you pour >money into to keep water out. (Sorry Ted, I couldn't resist) Boats are like >aiplanes and British cars. If you don't like to tinker, you are not going to >enjoy ownership. Cool stuff aint it! Don't worry about the flame job, you are speaking the truth so therefor you are declared fireproof! I once mentioned to my boss (who owns 15 airplanes) while we were driving down the road, I said "I am thinking about buying a supercub" he said well let me see your wallet. He literally opened my wallet and grabbed all the paper money and started flicking the bills out the window one by one and preceded to say "This is what its like" It was kinda funny but my money was laying all over the road behind us! He bought lunch and I guess the other missing cash was the charge for the advise! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:40:36 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems In a message dated 97-08-21 12:57:48 EDT, bobby Muse wrote: << O no! Now you'll be looking to close. When I see you at the KR Gathering I tell you how I repaired my spinner after two(2) nose gear colapses.... Now (before everyone wants to know) I am not going to tell on the KRNET, you will just have to be at the KR Gathering to find out.. >> I guess we all know who to talk to to find out about what doesn't work for tri gear set ups. Man, I smell another session Sunday morning: KR Oopes (is that a word?) Thanks Bobby for volunteering ;-) GOTTCHA Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:10:36 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings In a message dated 97-08-20 08:09:05 EDT, you write: << The hot setup is to drill the holes with the 3/16 bit then enlarge the holes in the spar to 1/2 inch. Have some aluminum bushings turned to fit in the 1/2 inch holes. Bushings of course would have the proper reamed hole for the An3 bolts, but your right, it works as is so why mess with it? I plan to flox my bolts into place. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Are you going to fill the holes with flox and push the bolts thru, are they going to be a bit oversize then do that or will you have some sort of setup to force the flox mixture in after installing the bolts? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:13:59 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? > For the sake of people in in my category i.e' the wannabee KR > builders' without any flying experience , can the KR flying people > give us an intelligent guess.. approximately how many hours of flight > trainning and experience should one have before attempting to fly his > own > KR as a hobby.? > > Agreed that KR dual time is important, but how many hours of it will > be considered sufficient? > > I guess that many of the KR flyers as well as contributors to this > group are experienced > pilots having at least several hundreds of flying hours to their > credit, and may be > employed within the airline industry itself. > I belong to a category of people who are new to flying and building. > what happens when > we find out that we cannot manage the aircraft after it is built, and > realise that it is > meant for very experienced pilots only. > > Words of advise direct from the experienced KR flyers who have had not > much flying > experience earlier to their KR, will be greatly appreciated and > thanked. I had a little over 100 hours flying time when I first flew a KR. The only reason I didn't fly sooner was the plane wasn't done. I think you will know if you can fly it or not based on your experience in "regular" planes. If you are behind a Cessna and are chasing it on landing - you aren't ready for a KR. If you don't have any problems - you're probably ready. In my opinion its that simple. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:42:39 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 05:10 PM 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > Are you going to fill the holes with flox and push the bolts thru, are >they going to be a bit oversize then do that or will you have some sort of >setup to force the flox mixture in after installing the bolts? > >Jim Hayward > I just plan to coat the holes and the bolts with flox and push them through. Of course the nuts will have to be on the aft side of the spars so the pulley and aileron bell cranks can be removed. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:54:36 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Monte's Newsletter KRNetHeads, I've been meaning to write a few words on the KR Newsletter. Realizing that I may be one of the only subscribers left on KRNet, I thought I'd let you know that under Monte's watch it has improved dramatically with more and better submissions, and a much more professional look. And I still get a kick out of his sense of humor. We even got the August issue in August! Having said that, I can't help but wonder how he managed to devote the entire front page to the upcoming KR Gathering and Randy's forum efforts without a single mention of KRNet. I've written twice asking him to put a plug for KRNet in his newsletter, but to no avail. Could it be competition? Surely he's not intentionally depriving his readers of THE best source of KR information and technical support... I guess I'll have to submit an article to him, with my website URL buried in it. I hope if a program is being printed, that it will include instructions on how to subscribe to KRNet. If nobody's doing a program, let me know, and I'll see what I can come up with. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:27:36 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Can a fresh PPL handle it ? On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:13:59 -0500 Jim Faughn writes: > >I had a little over 100 hours flying time when I first flew a KR. The >only reason I didn't fly sooner was the plane wasn't done. I think you >will know if you can fly it or not based on your experience in "regular" >planes. If you are behind a Cessna and are chasing it on landing - you >aren't ready for a KR. If you don't have any problems - you're probably >ready. In my opinion its that simple. >-- >Jim Faughn N8931JF >St. Louis, MO >(314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 > What Jim says is true. I have seen pilots that were ready for a KR on the day they got their license, and others that will never be ready. It depends on the individual and his/her learning curve and feel for the plane. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:40:18 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems Me thinks we need an "exclude Randy" software switch for cetain subjects on the KRNet. How about it Ross. ;o) - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:40:36 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 97-08-21 12:57:48 EDT, bobby Muse wrote: > ><< O no! Now you'll be looking to close. When I see you at the KR >Gathering >I > tell you how I repaired my spinner after two(2) nose gear >colapses.... Now > (before everyone wants to know) I am not going to tell on the KRNET, >you > will just have to be at the KR Gathering to find out.. > >> > >I guess we all know who to talk to to find out about what doesn't work >for >tri gear set ups. Man, I smell another session Sunday morning: KR >Oopes (is >that a word?) Thanks Bobby for volunteering ;-) GOTTCHA > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:47:02 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Spinner Problems >In a message dated 97-08-21 12:57:48 EDT, bobby Muse wrote: > > O no! Now you'll be looking to close. When I see you at the KR GatheringI > tell you how I repaired my spinner after two(2) nose gear colapses.... Now > (before everyone wants to know) I am not going to tell on the KRNET, you > will just have to be at the KR Gathering to find out.. > I looked over your firewall and cowl fastener installation pretty close last year. I wasn't thinking forward far enough to plan for the spinner. Put a nice 6" polished Skull cap spinner on last night. Now all I've got to do is work over the prop where the last spinner got back into it when it cracked. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:57:46 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Micheal Mims wrote: > AS for the lightning holes, what lightning holes? :o) Seriously how much > weight can you save on these? 10 oz? > > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand Those really aren't lightning holes. They are used to "control" the amount of load being transferred to the spar cap material and the strain (elongation) that the metal plates will undergo. I started to write a semi-long discussion on the stress/strain relationship in the fittings and how the load in re-acted out into the wood, but I realized that most of you won't care. It is easiest to say that it needs to be like that. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:14:10 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 05:49 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Micheal, > >What are you talking about? Drill holes in the spars to 1/2"???? Aren"t > >they talking about the wing attach fittings? > > > > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > > bmuse@mindspring.com > > Wimberly, TX > > > > Installing 1/2 inch bushings in the wood gives it greater tear out strength, > see Toni Bengelis Sport Plane Construction Techniques. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand This requires one very important word of caution. There is an absolute minimum bolt spacing that is well documented in a number of references. If you increased the size of the standard KR wing attachment fitting bolts (or holes with bushings) and changed nothing else, you run the risk of structural failure and subsequent loss of wing! I looked at this and wrote an article in the snail mail newsletter about two years ago. Six of the eight through bolts on each pair of wing attachment fittings could be increased to 1/4" (or sx 3/16" holes increased to 1/4" with the correct sized bushing). This would increase the overall bearing strength of the wing attachement fittings by about 40%. Any more change without complete redesign of the fittings would result in a reduction of the load bearing of the fitting. Please do not make any structural changes without a lot of analysis. A good idea that is not properly carried out will kill you. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:06:51 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 14:42 8/21/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 05:10 PM 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >> Are you going to fill the holes with flox and push the bolts thru, are >>they going to be a bit oversize then do that or will you have some sort of >>setup to force the flox mixture in after installing the bolts? >> >>Jim Hayward >> > >I just plan to coat the holes and the bolts with flox and push them through. >Of course the nuts will have to be on the aft side of the spars so the >pulley and aileron bell cranks can be removed. > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts >mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > >http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > This thread is another of the many helps and hints I enjoy seeing on the KR net. It just so happens that I will be drilling my spar caps and mounting the wing attach fittings this weekend. I will probably use epoxy in the bolt holes. West System has a page at http://www.concentric.net/~westsys/95-tech2.html that describes a technique for doing this. There is also information on this page about the acid etching requirement if you use aluminum inserts. Austin Clark Pascagoula MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:56:48 -0700 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: KR: Re: KR BBQ No Randy just someone help me find a baby sitter. Tom in Reno NV ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:48:20 -0400 From: dennis ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? At 07:33 AM 8/19/97, you wrote: >Me Too at steveb@aviation.denel.co.za >Thanks >Steve in South Africa >---------- >From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] >To: >Cc: >Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? >Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 9:55PM > >At 12:15 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Ron, >>Will ya zip a copy my way at dwright@Korry.com >> > >ME TOO ME TOO!!!!! > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Mike: Maybe with proper permission, (copyright and all) you could post it on your site and we all could get it from you? Just a thought. Dennis (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:05:05 -0400 From: dennis ambrose Subject: Re: KR: '98 KR Gathering At 08:16 AM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote: > > I purchased a Great Plains 2180 engine from a KR2 to use on my >Sonerai. It came equipped with a lot of components that aren't used on the >Sonerai. The engine had 146 hrs on it. > > Diehl Accessory Case > Flywheel > Alternator > Geared Starter > > The above lists in the current Great Plains catalog for about $620. I've >asking $425 and I'll pay freight. > > I also have the dual port intake manifold for the KR that lists for 175. >I'm asking $110 and I'll pay freight. The flange is setup for Ellison but >this of course can be easily changed. > > If anyone wants the tubular exhaust (this was on a taildragger) Great >Plains get's $300 for a new one. This one's not new but is complete and I'd >ask $100 and I'll pay the freight. > > >Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) Marty: I would like to buy the exhaust system from you. Please email me direct so we can discuss the details. Thanks Dennis. email: dambrose@ican.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:12:27 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing Attach Fittings At 08:57 PM 8/21/97 -0700, you wrote: Those really aren't lightning holes. They are used to "control" the amount >of load being transferred to the spar cap material and the strain >(elongation) that the metal plates will undergo. OK I guess I will go buy a uni bit and drill those structural lightning holes! :o) Are those uni bits strong enough to drill .125 inch 4130? Or should I plan on going through two or three? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:14:59 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Need help with KR Operating Handbook???? At 10:48 PM 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >Mike: > >Maybe with proper permission, (copyright and all) you could post it on your site and we all could get it from you? > > Just a thought. Dennis (in Toronto) Well if you get the proper permission to download it , try: http://members.aol.com/peggeykerl/writever.exe its a self extracting zip file. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Builder/Flyer Problems :-) In a message dated 97-08-21 23:38:41 EDT, Jeff (soon to be thumped) Scott wrote: << Me thinks we need an "exclude Randy" software switch for cetain subjects on the KRNet. How about it Ross. ;o) >> When I see you, I'm going to cover you with some road kill I've been saving out in the sun behind the double wide. With the sun and the black plastic bag it has been in, should be fairly ripe by the time I make it to Perry. Then the KRK9 NORAD will be set on ya boy...then we'll see who is da boss!!!! My wife said my software was switched years ago, at birth in fact...or did she say something in reference to "afterbirth"...nah, couldn't be, my clothes haven't made it to the front porch yet and my door key still works. Man, this gathering stuff is getting to me. You folks better show up in Perry or Don is going to tan me hide OK style. I've driven him nuts dreaming up all the great things for him to chase down, beg, borrow or steal. Poor guy is at wits end, but too polite to tell me to take a flying leap. We best be extra good to him when we get there. If nothing else, he'll be a bit more careful about volunteering in the future. So folks, where do we go next year? How about some Email suggestion to me privately to save bandwidth. Use the subject line 98 Gathering. Should be somewhat central to the highest concentration of KR builders/flyers. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Santa Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 01:24:03 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Precision drilling problems and wing-attach fittings > Therefore, I think soaking the wood with epoxy or even filling up the >>space in a too-big hole would give you more strength. However, the >>strength is adequate in the first place, so I don't see much point in this >>for normal-sized holes unless the plane is way overweight. >The hot setup is to drill the holes with the 3/16 bit then enlarge the holes >in the spar to 1/2 inch. Have some aluminum bushings turned to fit in the >1/2 inch holes. Bushings of course would have the proper reamed hole for >the An3 bolts, but your right, it works as is so why mess with it? I plan >to flox my bolts into place. I'm glad you don't intend to try this, but someone else might, so here's why I don't think this hot setup would come out right unless you did an awful lot of extra work. One of Ken Rand's most insightful ideas is on page 7 of the plans -- the deliberate non-interchangeability of the parts of the KR design: >Expensive holding fixtures or assembly jigs would be required if >interchangeability of assemblies or parts were needed. However, >inasmuch as each home-built is a one-of-a-kind, much of the fit and >drill becomes a progressive matter with the airplane itself being used >as a jig. (In other words, if you're fastening a bunch of components together to make something, you can screw up to some extent on the sizes of all of them as long as you fool with the size of the final assembly to make it come out right). This applies very much to the wing-attach fittings, because the method suggested in the plans allows tremendous margins for error without harm. If you made your own fittings and drilled each pair together, all the holes could be significantly wrong in location (as long as they're not too near the edge and you get the size right). Then, when you drill the spar with the drilling jig described in the plans (p. 25), each hole in the spar is in the right place for the one in the wing-attach fitting, because the hole in the wing-attach fitting serves as a template to locate it. (Even better if you drilled halfway from each side, because then both fittings locate the part of the hole nearest them). By contrast, you would have a hell of a time "enlarging the holes" in the spar to take bushings, because to preserve the alignment, the 10 holes would have to be enlarged without wandering from their location even a small amount, or the aluminum bushings would be in the wrong place. You couldn't just run a larger drill through the wood freehand to that degree of accuracy, but you also couldn't use the wing-attach fittings as templates anymore because their holes would also be enlarged. You could make templates with a larger hole in them and use them to align the holes in the spar, but then the holes in the wing-attach fittings would have to be match the templates precisely, unlike the standard fittings. Another method, more accurate but very tedious, would be to use the original wing attach fittings as templates by making up a shaft to run in their holes with an expandable internal tool, rather like a boring bar on a lathe, which could enlarge the hole in the spar precisely on-center because its ends would be bearing on the original holes in the wing attach fittings. You would have to devise someplace for the sawdust to go, however, maybe by removing and reattaching one wing attach fitting at intervals, but it would need alignment pins or something so it would keep going back on in exactly the same place. Finally, another way would be to throw precision to hell and make the holes in the spar oversize for the aluminum bushings, then put them in with flox and assemble the wing-attach fitting and bolts to hold the bushings in alignment until the flox hardened. This would be easy, but whether it would be stronger than just floxing the bolts in place is doubtful. All in all, these methods don't seem worth the trouble. If I were building a bigger plane and needed stronger wing-attach fittings, I'd make ones for bigger bolts (or more bolts) rather than try this. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:51:59 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Precision drilling problems and wing-attach fittings At 01:24 AM 8/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >All in all, these methods don't seem worth the trouble. If I were building a bigger plane and needed stronger wing-attach fittings, I'd make ones for bigger bolts (or more bolts) rather than try this. > >Mike Taglieri > Trust me I am not into creating more work! That's why I plan to do it like the plans say! Because I have a desire to eliminate as much non essential work as possible, I had elected not to drill the larger holes in the fittings (some are calling them lightning holes) but as pointed out earlier today they could be (they are) structural. Structural in the way they distribute the load to the spar caps. Its over my head but if its so its so! The reason I had brought up the bushing idea to start with is that I read somewhere that someone used larger bolts down the center of the fitting rather than all those an3 bolts (100+!!). I thought I remembered they also drilled the holes out larger and installed aluminum or steel bushings to increase the tearout strength because their particular KR2 was a little over weight. Then I read about this in Toni Bengelis' sport plane construction book and it made sense to me so I filed it in my brain housing group in the folder labeled "good ideas". I don't think enlarging the holes for the bushings and keeping everything inline would that difficult but I DON'T plan to try it, besides its not needed! And my KR will be lite for its size! Yea Right! :o) Mike "my next project will have a full span cantilever, laminate spar" Mims ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 06:13:05 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR: weight and balance Well, N262TC finally made it to the airport. I did a preliminary weight and balance and the results are what I expected. Mine is a KR2 built to plans with a few minor modifications- removable front deck and fuel tank, all factory premolds, Deihl wing skins and Tri-gear, Cleveland brakes, lights and strobes for night VFR, full interior, nice finish (Imron), COM radio, type 4 engine with starter, alternator, dual ignition- Mag and Compufire ignition, Ellison TBI. And the final weight- 659 lbs. Actually I was hoping for something under 600, but not really expecting it. My CG is rather foreward, I know this has been debated a lot, but what has been decided is a good range? The plans say 8-16" behind L.E., and I remember people saying not to use the last 2". With my bird, I dont think this will be a problem, I may have to do some juggling to get more weight in the back. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 06:44:32 -0400 From: Marty Hammersmith Subject: Re: KR: Engine stuff for sale I finally got the subject header correct. Sorry 'bout that.... I purchased a Great Plains 2180 engine from a KR2 to use on my Sonerai. It came equipped with a lot of components that aren't used on the Sonerai. The engine had 146 hrs on it. Diehl Accessory Case Flywheel Alternator Geared Starter The above lists in the current Great Plains catalog for about $620. I'm asking $425 and I'll pay freight. I also have the dual port intake manifold for the KR that lists for 175. I'm asking $110 and I'll pay freight. The flange is setup for Ellison but this of course can be easily changed. Marty Hammersmith (baleco@worldnet.att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 04:59:04 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: weight and balance Sounds like another bird will soon be flying. Wonderful!!!! Do you have numbers on the CG with you alone on board? Ron Lee At 06:13 97/8/22 -0700, you wrote: >Well, N262TC finally made it to the airport. I did a preliminary weight >and balance and the results are what I expected. >Mine is a KR2 built to plans with a few minor modifications- removable >front deck and fuel tank, all factory premolds, Deihl wing skins and >Tri-gear, Cleveland brakes, lights and strobes for night VFR, full >interior, nice finish (Imron), COM radio, type 4 engine with starter, >alternator, dual ignition- Mag and Compufire ignition, Ellison TBI. > >And the final weight- 659 lbs. >Actually I was hoping for something under 600, but not really expecting >it. My CG is rather foreward, I know this has been debated a lot, but >what has been decided is a good range? The plans say 8-16" behind L.E., >and I remember people saying not to use the last 2". With my bird, I >dont think this will be a problem, I may have to do some juggling to get >more weight in the back. > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL > > ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #79 ****************************