From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:44 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n091' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #91 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Sunday, September 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 091 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:02:23 -0700 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: Re: KR: serial number I bought mine second hand and took the original sales receipt to RR and she registered it and has given me very good support. Tom in Reno NV On Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:33:53 -0700 Donald Reid writes: >Micheal Mims wrote: >> >> At 08:49 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >> . If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will not help >you. >> >> But I bought mine from RR, what excuse do they use in that case? >:o) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Micheal Mims >> Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >> mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com >> http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > >Well, here I go making assumptions again. >I assumed that they would not help a second party plans purchaser >since I >have read that other places would not provide any technical assistance >unless >you bought plans directly. This ensures that two or more planes are >not >built from one set of plans. That would not be fair to the design >company. >-- >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:09:50 -0700 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes > I read more often about OTHER kitplane >manufacturers being taken to court by customers who paid for kits >but never recieved materials. (BD-5?) > > -- Ross > > Besides, as was posted before, we are all internet scum anyway. > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE Who says we are scum? I will get those #$@Q$. :0 ;) Robert "Not Scum" Covington ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:29:43 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes, Internet scum, etc. > Here in lies the problem, who >> in their right mind would write a "how to" article and risk the chances of >> finding themselves in court defending their ideas (not the fault of the >> lawyers mind you). Kitplanes and Sport Aviation are obviously limited as to >> what they can and can not publish for fear of being sued. The same fear >> weighed heavily on my mind when we WERE writing stuff for the KROnline! I >> wrote a 10 page article on how I built my canopy complete with pictures. I >> feel almost anyone could reproduce my canopy using this article but I >> decided not to publish it. Sorry! Maybe after I have a few hundred hours >on >> my KR and it (the canopy) has proven itself I would feel better about >> sharing a "how to" article and even then it will be a bit scary. > >I wrote a couple of articles for the KR Newsletter and although >the thought of legal liability gave me some pause, I decided that >I was worrying needlessly. In fact, in one case, publishing photos >to the newsletter yielded me a few letters of hints where I could >improve my installation on my landing gear. The value to me that >others in remote sites can critque my work is much greater than the >risk that someone's family will take me to court for their family >members implementation of somthing I published in the newsletter or >KRNET. The upside,I am reducing the risk to my life, by getting >input from others. The downside, someone might try to get $18.95 from >me after assuming they are first in line. > >Now, I will probably win $5 million in the lottery next week, and >my perspective will change. > > > Has Rand Robinson themselves been the target of these type of >lawsuits? This would be a good indication. I understand that >Jeanette's daugher was going to law school, so perhaps there was some >motivation for this. My expectation, is that RR is not a huge financial >concern, and building/flying experimental aircraft is a high enough >risk activity to make it difficult for judgements to be found against >the manuafacturers. I read more often about OTHER kitplane >manufacturers being taken to court by customers who paid for kits >but never recieved materials. (BD-5?) > > -- Ross > > Besides, as was posted before, we are all internet scum anyway. Personally, I think Kitplanes is pretty good, considering how broad a field they have to span: they're giving an overview of news, new kits, etc., in the whole field of homebuilts and also need to be interesting enough to keep beginners interested, with maybe 10% of the stuff technically very serious -- I think "Wind Tunnel" is one of the best techl columns I see. I also subscribe to "Cycle World" for the same reason in motorcycling: 90% of it I don't care about at all but the rest is sometimes very useful. Somebody should write to Kitplanes and ask them if they're short of tech articles because they're deep-sixing the good ones for liability reasons. Editors work hard -- they need a good laugh once in awhile. After recovering, I think they'd tell you they don't print as many good tech articles as they'd like because no one is sending in good stuff to print. If magazines, kitplane companies, parts providers, Internet scum like us, etc., were really liable for accidents caused by the manufacturer of a kitplane (i.e., the builder), they'd all be out of business now. So would Iowa State University because it publishes "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft." with iuts detailed instructions on how to test the flight envelope. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Japanese saw I bought my first Japanese saw last weekend at a flea market and I think I'm already a convert. These saws cut on the pull stroke rather than the push, so the blade can be much thinner because it doesn't have to resist buckling. It's easy to control once you get the knack of cutting on the pull stroke, and most Japanese saws are apparently optimized for softwood. The teeth are sharp enough to hurt you if you touch them, and are much harder than conventional saws. The blade-design I found is an Azebiki, a 4" blade with 8 tpi rip teeth on one side and 16 tpi crosscut on the other, with slightly curved blades for starting cuts in the middle of panels. I would have preferred a Ryoba, a larger version of the same rip/crosscut design without the curved blade, but this little saw cost $8 unused, so I'm not complaining. Either the rip or the crosscut blade will go through a piece of wood the size of KR stock in about 7 seconds with half a dozen strokes. It's also very controllable -- I found I could rip a piece of 1/8" thick stock to 1/16" thick easily. Sounds like a good choice for building a boat with if you're interested in using a manual saw. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 00:38:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Japanese saw At 02:29 AM 9/7/97 -0400, you wrote: >I bought my first Japanese saw last weekend at a flea market and I think I'm already a convert. These saws cut on the pull stroke rather than the push, <> >Either the rip or the crosscut blade will go through a piece of wood the >size of KR stock in about 7 seconds with half a dozen strokes. >Mike Taglieri <> I tried to tell you guys about these saws last year! They are absolutely awesome. (see a picture of my saw at: http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand/photos.html ) I built my entire boat using one of these saws and after a few hours of operation I found I could cut gussets so close to perfect that they needed no sanding! Besides my spar caps and shear webs,.. I cut ALL of my wood with one of these saws (yes even the ply skins for the fuselage) and only replaced the blade once. DO be careful though, I ran it across my hand one time (no Randy not on purpose) and it cuts flesh as well as it cuts wood! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 06:58:15 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: Re: Tech Counselor News At 08:43 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >JEHayward@aol.com wrote: >> I haven't heard of the Tech counselor news. What's it like? What's the >> subscription cost and their address? Thanks..... >> >> Jim Hayward > >This is the publication for EAA Technical Counselors. To get it, you have >the an EAA Tech Counselor. If I remember correctly, you have to be either an >A&P, already completed at least one home built, or be an aeronautical >engineer. Then there are a few requirements to "stay current", I think you >have to make three EAA inspections per year and/or write some articles for >the Tech Counselor news. >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com > Jim, Most EAA Chapters (if you're not a member, be sure to seek one out) have a tech counselor or two who often make reports at their meetings - makes it easy to be able to peruse the Tech Counselor News. ------And the publications are very good. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 06:46:35 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: serial number At 08:49 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will >not help you. >-- >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com > I do't know why you would say that. I purchased my plans from someone else and Rand Robinson helped me any way they could. In fact, they allowed me to upgrade the plans when a new version came out and registered me as owner of the original serial number. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 06:59:48 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR:Troy Petteway Does anyone know the hold story about Troy Petteway's problem with his KR? Steve Benett mentioned to me that Troy's engine quit @ 9000 feet. Of course with no battery/starter and a high compression engine, he had to find a place to land. Steve said that Troy may have landed on a road but did have some damage, at least to the gear. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:22:18 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR: airworthiness certificate Just a short note to let everyone know that N262TC received it's airworthiness certificate yesterday. The whole process took less than 1 hour and was surprisingly painless. A couple observations by the inspector (who has built 9 (!) homebuilts himself, including 3 Glassairs.) 1) The trim tab as built to plans is "Mickey Mouse". I am sure that many people have planes that fly well with it, but he recommended either an electric (like the MAC) in the elevator, or a bungee system on the stick. I plan to try the plans built trim tab, and change it if it doesn't work. 2)He was very critical of the Ellison TBI. He said there have been numerous documented cases of airplanes becoming gliders because of the TBI. He has personally lost 2 chapter members (as in now dead) because of it. He said that head pressure is critical, and also, it does not tolerate air bubbles well. His closing comment was "Be careful, and always be planning for your engine to quit, because sooner or later, it WILL quit. I am glad my wife was not there. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 07:55:26 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate >Just a short note to let everyone know that N262TC received it's >airworthiness certificate yesterday. The whole process took less than 1 >hour and was surprisingly painless. > Congratulations Tom. Will be interested to hear your reports as you get the flight test period flown off. >2)He was very critical of the Ellison TBI. He said there have been >numerous documented cases of airplanes becoming gliders because of the >TBI. He has personally lost 2 chapter members (as in now dead) because >of it. He said that head pressure is critical, and also, it does not >tolerate air bubbles well. > >His closing comment was "Be careful, and always be planning for your >engine to quit, because sooner or later, it WILL quit. Interesting. Is this a common perception of that unit? Ron Lee >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 11:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: LVav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Japanese saw In a message dated 97-09-07 03:48:35 EDT, you write: << I tried to tell you guys about these saws last year! They are absolutely awesome. (see a picture of my saw at: http://pw2.netcom.com/~mimsmand/photos.html ) I built my entire boat using one of these saws and after a few hours of operation I found I could cut gussets so close to perfect that they needed no sanding! Besides my spar caps and shear webs,.. I cut ALL of my wood with one of these saws (yes even the ply skins for the fuselage) and only replaced the blade once. DO be careful though, I ran it across my hand one time (no Randy not on purpose) and it cuts flesh as well as it cuts wood! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand >> I just now saw what the japanese saw looks like. I had no idea what it was when I started my project. What I ended up using was a Jorgensen Compound Miter Saw that I got at Home Depot for $38. It took me a little while to be able to convert angles found off of the plans or the side panel itself using a protractor ( thanks for that hint Mark Langford ) to cut my gussets but once I figured it out my gussets came out nearly perfect, only needing a little touch up on a piece of sandpaper to remove a little fringe. I haven't got a web page yet but if anyone want's a picture just email me direct and I'll scan a photo and email it back to you. The hint of using a simple protractor to find my angles was most helpful, Thanks again Mark. Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV LVav8r@aol.com KR-2S 2% complete __I__ ______( X )_______ o/ \o ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 11:32:15 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: serial number Bobby Muse wrote: > > At 08:49 AM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > If you bought the plans from someone else, Rand will > >not help you. > I do't know why you would say that. I purchased my plans from someone else > and Rand Robinson helped me any way they could. In fact, they allowed me to > upgrade the plans when a new version came out and registered me as owner of > the original serial number. As I said in a later post, I was making an assumption. Sorry for the confusion! The reason for the assumption was based on some other things that I have seen. I bought a wrecked Vari-eze for the engine and instruments. With it, I got a lot of Rutan Aircraft Factory newletters. I also got the Vari-eze plans used to build the A/C. In their information, both the plans and the newsletter, Rutan stated many times that the plans were for the person who actually bought them and registered. If memory serves, the purchaser was licensed to produce one A/C from the plans. If the plans or incompleted project was sold, the new owner would have to register, pay a license fee (I am pretty sure of this but may be wrong), before Rutan would provide any technical assistance. I do remember reading of similar arrangements from other design companies. It may be that a person who makes the majority of their money from the sale of plans will work this way, and that a person who sells fabricted components will not. Rutan quit selling plans after being sued about a dozen times by fools who did not build according to the design. He never settled out of court, but won each on technical merit. When he had enough of the tort foolishness, he got out of the plans business. At that point, he did provide technical support to the original purchaser of the plans. In spite of what has been said on this net, a designer/engineer of experimental A/C can be taken to court for the faulty work of a home builder. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 09:59:24 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Gear Castings, etc. Dave I haven't got a final gross weight of the entire airplane yet (exact figures) but hope to have it this month. I did weigh most of the material that I removed as I removed it to come up with the figures of how much weight was taken off. I just moved into my new home and it has a 3 car garage which is going to be wonderful for my airplane hobby. I will be able to completely assemble N54PB and still work on it in the garage. When I finish getting all the boxes unpacked and everything arranged the wings will be attached. I will then get an accurate weight on my bird and let you know. I do know that the bird is still heavier than the plans call for, this is one of the reasons I was so surprised to get the speed that I am getting. I also forgot to mention that the 185 mph was not held for long because the cylinder head temperature was rising quite fast. I know that the turbo charger makes a big difference in the performance of my plane and when it is working well the performance is outstanding. The only problem is you have to keep a close eye on the temperatures and the manifold pressure. Thanks Parley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:01:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate At 09:22 AM 9/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >2)He was very critical of the Ellison TBI. He said there have been >numerous documented cases of airplanes becoming gliders because of the TBI. He has personally lost 2 chapter members (as in now dead) because of it. He said that head pressure is critical, and also, it does not >tolerate air bubbles well. > CONGRATULATIONS on the certification!! WOO HOO!!!!! The Ellison injector DOES need constant head pressure and some have found they do not operate well on a gravity feed system with smaller fuel lines (1/4 OD or smaller). My friend Brad has one on his Dragonfly (3/8 fuel lines) and it works GREAT! Other Dragonfliers have had trouble ( 1/4 inch fuel lines) and have installed fuel pumps and pressure regulators to cure the problem. If you have 1/4 inch fuel lines I would install a fuel pump / regulator before flying. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:18:29 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate He was right concerning the trim tab. I changed mine to a spring setup on the control stick and used a RV type window crank to adjust the tension. It works so good that I did the same thing on the rudder. Thanks Parley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 10:39:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate At 10:18 AM 9/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >He was right concerning the trim tab. I changed mine to a spring setup >on the control stick and used a RV type window crank to adjust the >tension. It works so good that I did the same thing on the rudder. > >Thanks >Parley > HEY PARLEY!! How about sharing how its done! I myself don't like the plans trim system and was just about to flox the piece that I cut out for the tab back in and come up with something better! PLEASE share! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:47:33 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Fast KR and Turbo charger At 09:59 97/9/07 -0800, you wrote: I also forgot to >mention that the 185 mph was not held for long because the cylinder >head temperature was rising quite fast. I know that the turbo charger >makes a big difference in the performance of my plane and when it is >working well the performance is outstanding. The only problem is you >have to keep a close eye on the temperatures and the manifold pressure. > >Thanks >Parley > I assume that you have a turbo charger. If so, what type and size (diameter/pitch) prop are you using? Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes In a message dated 97-09-06 22:33:54 EDT, Don wrote: << This is the publication for EAA Technical Counselors. To get it, you have the an EAA Tech Counselor. If I remember correctly, you have to be either an A&P, already completed at least one home built, or be an aeronautical engineer. Then there are a few requirements to "stay current", I think you have to make three EAA inspections per year and/or write some articles for the Tech Counselor news. >> Don: Uhhh..not completely correct. Anyone can subscribe to Tech Counselor. When you renew your membership each year, there is a box to check and pay the $12 per year for the subscription. The rest is mostly accurate as I recall. This is not a flame, just a clarification as I understand it. I do get the publication. It has some good stuff in it, but it can also be sparce. I have found there is no one publication that provides "excellent" information on a consistent basis. Just like being on a number of aviation boards, you have to sift through plenty of chaff to find a few good grains. I read a number of publications and peruse the aviation boards regularly. Over the short term, it seems like not much is out there. In the context of the long term, I have a HUGE library of hints, tips, ideas and sources for materials. It was amassed over a period of years. I'm using it to supplement and create a better builders manual. Building the KR is a journey. A true learning experience. Anyone can do the same. There are Builders, Flyers and Builders & Flyers. I enjoy it all. It is good therapy, and as you folks know, I need plenty more session before I'm well enough to be turned loose into the real world. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - Can't wait for the gathering...it is going to be a blast!!! Get plenty of sleep before you get there, 'cause you ain't going to have time to sleep much when you are there. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:27:58 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR:Troy Petteway In a message dated 97-09-07 08:35:05 EDT, you write: << Does anyone know the hold story about Troy Petteway's problem with his KR? Steve Benett mentioned to me that Troy's engine quit @ 9000 feet. Of course with no battery/starter and a high compression engine, he had to find a place to land. Steve said that Troy may have landed on a road but did have some damage, at least to the gear. >> Bobby: Mark langford knows the whole story. He is out of town for a few more days, I think. Yes I believe Troy did have to make an off airport deadstick landing. Some damage to his outer wing panels (roadside signs?) and is rebuilding them with NLF airfoils ala Mark Langford. Does not look like he'll have his KR back together by the gathering. Troy is half owner in a RV6, so Mark amd Troy will be flying that to the gathering instead. Life is tuff. Troy also changed jobs and moved recently, so he has been occupied with life besides KRs. Unlike the rest of us who have no other life...or so my wife said. Randy (Mr. Knowsy) Stein BSHSDR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:28:47 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Gathering & TCP In a message dated 97-09-06 22:11:46 EDT, Rex wrote: << Subj: Gathering & TCP Date: 97-09-06 22:11:46 EDT From: ELLINGTO@gslan.offsys.ou.edu (Rex Ellington) To: BSHADR@aol.com Please post the following for me. I have been trying to get back on krnet for two months after the University changed my address to I will be at the gathering. Do not count me in the BBQ, will probably have to commute each day. The lead scavenger one Netter asked about is: Tricresyl phosphate or "Tom Cat P" as often called. Many suppliers in Trade-a-plane, etc. list it. It is classed as a hazardous chemical and cannot be sent by air, and there is an extra charge for ground travel. Rex Ellington Norman, OK Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.uoknor.edu >> There you be Rex. Ross, can you help this poor lost KRNetter get back into the system??? Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Moica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:13:05 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR:Troy Petteway Bobby Muse wrote: > Does anyone know the hold story about Troy Petteway's problem with his KR? Troy said he wasn't entirely sure why it quit, but suspects that maybe his mixture control unscrewed from the bottom of his float bowl, draining it. I hate it when that happens. He deadsticked it onto a road but dinged up both wingtips on road signs, and then ran off the road dodging surprised motorists. This scraped off the bottom of his cowling, along with his carburetor, filling it with dirt. So an autopsy wasn't possible. The good news is that he's redoing his wing skins to eliminate the "scary stuff" that Mims spoke of after the last Gathering. He laments that he sure wished he could have had another chance to restart his engine in flight, and plans an electrical system this time again. He won't be ready to fly his KR by Gathering time, but he was unhurt. I can't think of anybody else I'd rather deadstick in with. I plan to bum a ride with him to the Gathering in an RV-6 that he owns part of. See ya'll there? Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Bobby Muse > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR:Troy Petteway > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 6:59 AM > > Does anyone know the hold story about Troy Petteway's problem with his KR? > Steve Benett mentioned to me that Troy's engine quit @ 9000 feet. Of course > with no battery/starter and a high compression engine, he had to find a > place to land. Steve said that Troy may have landed on a road but did have > some damage, at least to the gear. > > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:42:07 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: KR Speeds Randy Stein wrote: > This was on the DFly list. A snapshot of the fastest cruize speeds for the > tandem wings. This was a result of their outing last weekend. Triangler > course of about 125 miles total (if memory serves me correctly). If was > billed as a "performance evaluation" and not a race: How about doing something similar for KRs at the Gathering? Maybe on a calm morning, and not quite so far though. Would sure put some things in perspective. Then we'd see about that 180MPH advertised cruise speed... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: BSHADR@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: DFly speeds > Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 4:48 PM > > > KRHeads: > > This was on the DFly list. A snapshot of the fastest cruize speeds for the > tandem wings. This was a result of their outing last weekend. Triangler > course of about 125 miles total (if memory serves me correctly). If was > billed as a "performance evaluation" and not a race: > > < We hoped to have 6-8 planes participate and ended up having 15!! > > Mark Snow Dragonfly 152.00 > Terry O'neil Dragonfly 130.00 > Jon Finley Q2 128.00 > Justin Mace Dragonfly 124.00 > Wayne Ulvestad Dragonfly 112.00 > Allen Perkins Dragonfly 108.00 > Terry Crouch Quickie 100.00>> > > Looks like the real world numbers for tandem wings (most of them VW powered) > are similar to the relationship we see between KRs in the real world and what > we see in a certain Kitplanes ad for KRs. > > This is a good reason to "keep it light" so you can cruise faster. > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA > > PS - These guys had a ball. From what I hear, we'll have even more fun at > the 97 Gathering! > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:31:48 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: fuel line thickness? You A&P types: Is there any reason why I can't use the thicker .049" 3/8" 5052-0 aluminum tubing rather than the normal .035" for my fuel lines? My fuel injection might need a larger margin. Speaking of which, does anyone know of a source for an inexpensive 37 degree flaring tool? I'd hate to spend 68$ for a tool that I'll use ten times, but I'll do it if I have to. And while on the subject, I gather that brakes are usually 3/16" tubing? Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:22:29 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: KR1B motorglider If memory serves me correctly (not), Jeannette once told me that despite selling several sets of plans for the motorglider, she didn't know of anybody actually building one, other than the prototype. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:54:22 -0500 From: Jim Faughn Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 10:18 AM 9/7/97 -0800, you wrote: > >He was right concerning the trim tab. I changed mine to a spring setup > >on the control stick and used a RV type window crank to adjust the > >tension. It works so good that I did the same thing on the rudder. > > > >Thanks > >Parley > HEY PARLEY!! > > How about sharing how its done! I myself don't like the plans trim system > and was just about to flox the piece that I cut out for the tab back in and > come up with something better! PLEASE share! I didn't like the design for the trim tab from the moment I saw it in the plans. But I did like the design for the ailerons. So, I made my trim tab exactly like you make the aileron attachment. Of course it is much smaller. It works very well and I attached it to a MAC servo. - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:45:33 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: fuel line thickness? Mark Langford wrote: > > You A&P types: > > Is there any reason why I can't use the thicker .049" 3/8" 5052-0 aluminum > tubing rather than the normal .035" for my fuel lines? My fuel injection > might need a larger margin. Speaking of which, does anyone know of a > source for an inexpensive 37 degree flaring tool? I'd hate to spend 68$ > for a tool that I'll use ten times, but I'll do it if I have to. And while > on the subject, I gather that brakes are usually 3/16" tubing? > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford Without running the numbers, I suspect you would have to have fuel injection pressure greater than 100 psi to require the thicker material. Try your local EAA chapter for a tool, someone may have one you can borrow. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:40:39 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Pitch stability/sensitivity On Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:47:47 -0400 (EDT) BSHADR@aol.com writes: > > (3) Make other far less important changes to the config such as mass >balancing the control surfaces or control linkage ratio changes. > >Mass balancing negates the tendency of the controls to amplify G force. I'm >hoping that Terry O'Neill will fill us in regarding his impressions of >control ratio change benefits. I guess the question is "Do we fly by feel, >by stick position, or a combination?". Terry may have some real insight on >that. > >Not a directly applicable fix for us, but good food for thought. Another way >of saying watch the CG and keep it forward. Nothing new, just said differently. > >Randy Stein One comment on changing the elevator control ratio on a KR. I tried shortening the control ratio of my KR by 28% during the test flying phase. In my case, it proved to be unsatisfactory. I found that it added very little feel to the elevator, but did make the plane even more sensative at slow speeds and made landings a bit more challenging. I made three flights with this control configuration before I changed it back to where it originally was. This was not a good modification for my KR but was certainly a worthwhile test. I have licensed my KR to 1200# gross and have tested it to that weight. I found, much like Randy posted about the Dragonflys, that my plane flew just find at those weights, and was more sensative to the CG shift than than the gross weight. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:27:55 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: KR Speeds On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:42:07 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: >How about doing something similar for KRs at the Gathering? Maybe on a >calm morning, and not quite so far though. Would sure put some things in >perspective. Then we'd see about that 180MPH advertised cruise >speed... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL Heck, I'll be the first one to tell you mine doesn't go that fast except on the downhill run. Right now my top cruise speed it 150mph. I still have lots of aerodynamic cleanups to do that might buy me up to 10 mph. If someone about 100# lighter than me flies it that would probably be good for another 10 mph. Throw away about 100# of electrical junk like battery, generator, starter and other misc hevy objects, and the plane might be able to cruise at that, but I don't see the point. If I remember right, Troy's average speed in the Sun N Fun race this year was 140 KT which translates roughly into 160 mph. I think Parley is indicating that he is expecting close to 180 mph performance from his. The point is, that 180 cruise is possible, but few people are willing to build their plane that light or clean and very few are capable of building one that light on the first try. We all make compromises to the design that usually costs us in weight and speed. The end result is almost always the planes you'll see flying at the gathering. Few are as light or as fast as the specs call for, but most of the pilots would tell you their's would be capable if they had built it lighter and/or cleaner. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:56:09 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: airworthiness certificate On Sun, 07 Sep 1997 09:22:18 -0700 Tom Crawford writes: >Just a short note to let everyone know that N262TC received it's >airworthiness certificate yesterday. The whole process took less than 1 >hour and was surprisingly painless. Congratulations!!! It's nice to have the government tell you that project that has been growing in your garage for several years is now an airworthy airplane. > >A couple observations by the inspector (who has built 9 (!) homebuilts >himself, including 3 Glassairs.) > >1) The trim tab as built to plans is "Mickey Mouse". I am sure that many >people have planes that fly well with it, but he recommended either an >electric (like the MAC) in the elevator, or a bungee system on thestick. I agree. I'm using the old version of the MAC trim servo and am very pleased with it. > >I plan to try the plans built trim tab, and change it if it doesn'twork. > >2)He was very critical of the Ellison TBI. He said there have been >numerous documented cases of airplanes becoming gliders because of the >TBI. He has personally lost 2 chapter members (as in now dead) because >of it. He said that head pressure is critical, and also, it does not >tolerate air bubbles well. Only two builders from our EAA chapter have used an Ellison so far. One is very happy with it and has many hundreds of hours on it, the other was destroyed on the first flight after the engine quit at 300 ft. due to fuel starvation. The Ellison has little tolerance for less than perfectly clean fuel. > >His closing comment was "Be careful, and always be planning for your >engine to quit, because sooner or later, it WILL quit. I agree. It took me 16 years before my first engine failure, but it happened....at night in the mountains no less. > >I am glad my wife was not there. > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL > Congratulations again!! - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Kitplanes In a message dated 97-09-06 22:33:54 EDT, you write: << If you have at least three inspections documented over the course of building, AVEMCO will give you a price reduction on hull insurance, and will start it at the first flight. >> Is there some sort of form to fill out for the documentation or is it just in your record keeping and signed by the inspector? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:14:06 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: KR Speeds Heck, I'll be the first one to tell you mine doesn't go that fast except >on the downhill run. Right now my top cruise speed it 150mph. > >Jeff Let's see. If my top taxi speed has been 30 MPH, then 150-30 equals 120 MPH faster than mine. :) Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: KR: For Your Information I'm a member of the KRNet (krnet-l@teleport.com) which boast a membership of about 160+ and are building/have built/interested in building a KR aircraft. The below was exerpted from a series of posts about Kitplanes, Experimenter, and Tech Counselor concerning the technical quality of articles. Just thought you might be interested. BTW, I'm an EAA member and subscriber of Kitplanes and Experimenter magazines. Jim Hayward - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------------------------------------- Personally, I think Kitplanes is pretty good, considering how broad a field they have to span: they're giving an overview of news, new kits, etc., in the whole field of homebuilts and also need to be interesting enough to keep beginners interested, with maybe 10% of the stuff technically very serious -- I think "Wind Tunnel" is one of the best tech columns I see. I also subscribe to "Cycle World" for the same reason in motorcycling: 90% of it I don't care about at all but the rest is sometimes very useful. Somebody should write to Kitplanes and ask them if they're short of tech articles because they're deep-sixing the good ones for liability reasons. Editors work hard -- they need a good laugh once in awhile. After recovering, I think they'd tell you they don't print as many good tech articles as they'd like because no one is sending in good stuff to print. If magazines, kitplane companies, parts providers, Internet scum like us, etc., were really liable for accidents caused by the manufacturer of a kitplane (i.e., the builder), they'd all be out of business now. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #91 ****************************