From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 12:45 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n096' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #96 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Sunday, September 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 096 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:03 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Rudder Pedals In a message dated 97-09-12 13:43:02 EDT, David wrote: << Several years ago, RR advertised a cast aluminum set of rudder pedals with the KR on the pedal. Not realizing what I had, I sold the set I had to a builder who just had to have them. Does anyone on KRnet have or know someone who might have a set they would want to part with? I talked to Jeannette, she said they were a bit to heavy, and she hasn't had them in a long time. >> Me thinks the ones that Mike Mims made are super. He said they are knock-offs of the ones his buddy Brad has on his DFly. I'd be looking at mikes pictures on 'em on his webb site. They are simple, light and vewy "dog" friendly (feet for you folks who didn't grow up on a farm). Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - Perrykosh is almost here. Is everyone ready? Don said his phone is ringing off the hook. Lots of folks are very excited and looking forward to the event! The KR shown in Kitplanes this month will not be coming. He is still a bit shy of the 40 hrs. Too bad. Steve Makish (Soob KR in Southeast Florida) is going to try to fly in. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:38:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: deck construction Michael Mims wrote: > Actually the way you want to do it is the RIGHT way! If you have access to a > set of dragonfly plans you can see how its done... Having built both my front and aft decks three times for a total of six (I'm a slow learner) I'm convinced 2" foam is the ticket. By the time you've cut your three formers out, I'm sanding the foam between my two templates. And the sanding goes really fast. Once I made up my mind to do it the "right" way, I'll bet total time on the front deck was under 5 hours. And think there is a lot to be said for glassing the foam in an unstressed state. If you bend it and glass it, it'll spend the rest of it's life trying to straighten back out. A heat gun helps, but you get more or less stress relief in various places. Sanding well supported unstressed urethane foam between two templates is a quick and simple no brainer, the kind of work I accel at. By the way, in our recent debate on two part foams and their tendency to expand later when exposed to heat, I just removed most of it before glassing the outside, and replaced it with micro. Then I went over it with the heat gun, just to make sure that it was quite finished expanding, Now, if it expands, it won't expand as much, and it will tend to expand to the inside of the skin, rather than the outside. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: progress report > Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 2:39 PM > > At 03:16 PM 9/12/97 -0400, you wrote: > However, stubborn as I am, I continue trying > >with this method, knowing that Mark Langfords method (2" foam, > >shape,glass inside first, place on fuse, shape outside, glass outside)is > >probably easier and may produce a better product. I will keep you > >posted on my final product. > > > >Bob Smith , building at considerably less than warp speed > > > > Actually the way you want to do it is the RIGHT way! If you have access to a > set of dragonfly plans you can see how its done. If not here is a quick > rundown. Make a jig by cutting three or four formers that will fit the > outside of the finished piece (see Marks website). Make these formers 3/4 > inch oversize, bondo them to your work bench at the appropriate locations > and connect them with 3/4 inch stringers. Use dental floss to sew the foam > down into the jig (through the foam and around the stringers. Glass the > inside first and let cure. After cure , reach under the stringers and cut > the floss. Remove the piece from the jig and flox it into place on your > fuselage. Do some light sanding on the outside for touch up and glass the > outside. Wha La your done! > > Thats how it should be done on both fron and rear t-decks! > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:57:07 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: kitplanes Micheal Mims wrote: > > Something I noticed about Kitplanes and the relationship it has with > builders, Kitplanes is a fun publication to browse when your in the ideas > stage (deciding what powerplant, airplane, engine, avionics, etc.) but once > he has made up his mind and construction starts, the builder is busy > building and if there is nothing published that the builder can utilize at > that particular moment,... well the magazine becomes pretty > useless,..because of the builders bias,..not the magazines fault at all. I > once read an article in Airline Pilot that 80% of the readers to Flying > magazine held a student pilot rating or less. Coincidence,....???? I think not! > > ________________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand I'll have to concur with the popular notion that if it has a plane on the cover, I'll read it (subscriptions to sport, experimenter, AOPA pilot and yes a private pilot reading Flying and have for more years than I care to admit. You ask why? because I devour them when they arrive in the "snail mail" and I hate to go to the "library" without somthing to read. Besides every word read about flying is a lesson learned. Some lessons remembered, some not but all enjoyed. I am particularly fond of Peter Garrisons' reports of his progress on his homebuilt and designed "Melmoth". Boy, do I wish I had some vacation time to use in Perry. Next year. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:29:33 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Air cooling and temp sensors Netheads: This came across on the the QList. This was a response to a question about engine cooling and location of abd type of sensors. Good food for thought. Aircooled is aircooled. Much of this would apply to VWs too, enjoy: <> Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - Just counting the hours until Perrykosh... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:42:59 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Gross weight rols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald Reid wrote: > Sorry, but no. The 3446 is for both wing halves. [snip] Oops I see it now. Sorry about that. So for a FAR 23 recommended 3.8 g the gross weight should not exceed (3446/3.8) 906 lbs. That kind of puts big motored and longer tailed KRs into the danger zone with just one passenger and a full load of fuel. (650 lb KR, one 200lb pilot and 8 gals of gas). For aerobatics 3446/6g =574 lbs not really do-able. Kind of scary if you've assumed 7 gs at 800 lbs! - -Peter- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:25:02 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: The Perry Report 9/8/97 On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:53:28 -0600, you wrote: > >On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:22:50 -0400 (EDT) bvermeul@concentric.net writes: >> >>>Video Bob will have two cameras going full time, so we should have = some >good >>>material from the sessions to distill into contruction videos. >> >>Randy, >> >>Make that three cameras. The 97 KR Gathering Video will be the best >ever. >>Geesh, I can hardly wait to get there and see everyone again. One week >and >>counting. >> >>Video Bob >> > >Video Bob, > >Do you still have any videos of the '96 Gathering left and are you going >to bring some to sell. I'll bet they could be sold from the fly market.= =20 >I'll be happy to sell during my watch. Besides, I still haven't bought >my '96 video yet. =20 > >------- >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >jscott.pilot@juno.com >See N1213W construction and first flight at >http://fly.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: >//www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Video Bob, Count me in. I still want a copy of the '96 Gathering. Never did get around to order it. Hope you will bring some. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:50:40 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Rudder Pedals On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:03 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Me thinks the ones that Mike Mims made are super. He said they are >knock-offs of the ones his buddy Brad has on his DFly. I'd be looking = at >mikes pictures on 'em on his webb site. They are simple, light and vewy >"dog" friendly (feet for you folks who didn't grow up on a farm). > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > >PS - Perrykosh is almost here. Is everyone ready? Don said his phone = is >ringing off the hook. Lots of folks are very excited and looking = forward to >the event! The KR shown in Kitplanes this month will not be coming. He= is >still a bit shy of the 40 hrs. Too bad. Steve Makish (Soob KR in = Southeast >Florida) is going to try to fly in. Are there any close up pictures of Mike's rudder pedals? The only ones I have found so far are a liitle too far away to see much detail. Thanks, Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:07:51 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Gross weight At 07:42 PM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote: Oops I see it now. Sorry about that. > >So for a FAR 23 recommended 3.8 g the gross weight should not exceed >(3446/3.8) 906 lbs. That kind of puts big motored and longer tailed KRs >into the danger zone with just one passenger and a full load of fuel. >(650 lb KR, one 200lb pilot and 8 gals of gas). For aerobatics 3446/6g >=574 lbs not really do-able. Kind of scary if you've assumed 7 gs at >800 lbs! > >-Peter- You guys are making the 980 pound published gross weight sound like its not possible! Maybe someone should bring this up to RR or maybe someone's calcs are off? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:21:35 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR: Gathering Webpage I have made some small changes to the Gathering webpage. I will be posting information about what went on in Perry late Friday and Saturday night when I get home from Perry. I will try to post some pictures as soon as possible. Anyone know how I can get some pictures scanned as soon as I get them developed? I don't have a scanner yet. Any ideas? Brian J Bland Claremore, OK bbland@busprod.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:33:43 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re:Whats "up ducts" >Seems I'm working here with someone who used to be one of the AME's for the >Snowbirds (CF Snowbirds). I asked him and he recommended using three small >holes, a-la Buick, on the cowel sides and allow the venturi effect to draw >air out. This would prevent a structural weakening of the cowel and still >provide for airflow over the fins of the covers. Three parallel slats was >considered, but this might result in spider-web cracking. Is there any evidence that the valve covers on aero-VW's get too hot in the first place? I don't have reports on the VW engine, but I know that on English motorcycle engines (OHV pushrod designs with more similarities to a VW than you might think), the rocker arms and their associated parts are so underworked that the oil feed to the heads can fail entirely and the engine will still run well for a long time before the rocker shafts gall. Also, VW's original-equipment valve covers do not have fins, nor do the valve covers on Lycoming and Continental engines. Fins may have been added to the Revmaster covers as much for looks as for cooling, so you might want to find this out before cutting cooling holes, which would complicate your baffling. Steve Bennett sells both types of covers, so he might have some advice. Also, maybe the welder's crayons that were discussed here awhile back could be used on the covers to see how hot they get, or do they come in a low enough range for this? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:14:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re:Whats "up ducts" At 12:33 AM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >Is there any evidence that the valve covers on aero-VW's get too hot in the first place? Yes I was thinking this was wasted effort also. But who knows? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:22:04 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Rudder Pedals At 03:50 AM 9/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >Are there any close up pictures of Mike's rudder pedals? The only >ones I have found so far are a liitle too far away to see much detail. > >Thanks, > I will repost them tonight , look for them on the controls page tomorrow. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:49:42 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: my construction photos I have a self extracting zip file that contains 240 images of my KR construction. If anyone is interested I can send it to you and you can post it on your server for others to download. I don't have room on my server or I would do it for the benefit (or for laughs) of all. The file is about 2.8 meg. If there is an interest I could make three smaller zip files. Let me know! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:28:22 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: my construction photos Michael Mims wrote: > I have a self extracting zip file that contains 240 images of my KR > construction. If anyone is interested I can send it to you and you can post > it on your server for others to download. Michael, How about bringing them to the Gathering on three 3.5" floppies, and I'll stick them on my site for a week (I'm at my 10M limit too) so everybody that wants them can get them? They don't charge me for temporary indiscretions. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: my construction photos > Date: Saturday, September 13, 1997 12:49 AM > > I have a self extracting zip file that contains 240 images of my KR > construction. If anyone is interested I can send it to you and you can post > it on your server for others to download. I don't have room on my server or > I would do it for the benefit (or for laughs) of all. The file is about > 2.8 meg. > > If there is an interest I could make three smaller zip files. Let me know! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ > _____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:10:10 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: kitplanes At 06:39 PM 9/11/97 -0600, you wrote: > >On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:57:51 -0500 "Mark Langford" >writes: >> Not to put down Sport Aviation, because I love it too, >>but SA seems to concentrate on the "show planes" and blowing EAA's >horn, >>not so much on the nuts and bolts of construction. >I couldn't agree more. Seems like Tony Bingelis was the last of the Tech >writers. SA and the EAA Leadership seems to be dedicated to museums, >showplanes, and warbirds. They need to take a serious look at their >membership rolls and try to regain the spirit of the real homebuilders. >I don't consider a $700,000 Lancair 4P with a $70,000 rendition of an >automotive V-8 or a Rutan built Jet to be very applicable to the average >Joe building an airplane in a 1 or 2 car garage. > >The place where I have found the true homebuilding spirit is right here >on KRNet. I really enjoy all of Mark Langford's unique engineering ideas >and Mike Mims ideas on how to keep every last penny in his bank account. >I may not necessarily agree with all the ideas, but that's what building >your own and the spirit of the homebuild airplane is all about. All of >the free thinking spawns new ideas that get used by others including many >net lurkers that don't beat their own drums on the net. > >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > I agree. Put me in Jeff's corner. But I do believe that the more knowledge we have or obtain through these publictions, the less we can apprenciate them. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 1997 23:57:10 +0900 From: Mouse@heiwa.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re:Whats "up ducts" KR>>Seems I'm working here with someone who used to be one of the AME's for the KR>>Snowbirds (CF Snowbirds). I asked him and he recommended using three small KR>>holes, a-la Buick, on the cowel sides and allow the venturi effect to draw KR>>air out. This would prevent a structural weakening of the cowel and still KR>>provide for airflow over the fins of the covers. Three parallel slats was KR>>considered, but this might result in spider-web cracking. KR>Is there any evidence that the valve covers on aero-VW's get too hot in the KR>first place? I don't have reports on the VW engine, but I know that on KR>English motorcycle engines (OHV pushrod designs with more similarities to a KR>VW than you might think), the rocker arms and their associated parts are so KR>underworked that the oil feed to the heads can fail entirely and the engine KR>will still run well for a long time before the rocker shafts gall. KR>Also, VW's original-equipment valve covers do not have fins, nor do the valv KR>covers on Lycoming and Continental engines. Fins may have been added to the KR>Revmaster covers as much for looks as for cooling, so you might want to find KR>this out before cutting cooling holes, which would complicate your baffling. KR> Steve Bennett sells both types of covers, so he might have some advice. KR> Also, maybe the welder's crayons that were discussed here awhile back could KR>be used on the covers to see how hot they get, or do they come in a low KR>enough range for this? KR>Mike Taglieri I would think the cooling affect from the fuel/air mixture might have something to do with it. Plus don't aircooled enginges run so much richer then conventional auto engines? Tim Schuy KR-2S builder in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 06:13:59 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: Re: KR: Gathering Webpage On 13/9/97 6:21AM, in message <341d1408.3635302@mail.busprod.com>, Brian Bland wrote: Hi Brian Food For Thought - Fax them into your computer. Regards Rob Matthews > I have made some small changes to the Gathering webpage. I will be > posting information about what went on in Perry late Friday and > Saturday night when I get home from Perry. I will try to post some > pictures as soon as possible. Anyone know how I can get some pictures > scanned as soon as I get them developed? I don't have a scanner yet. > Any ideas? > > Brian J Bland > Claremore, OK > > bbland@busprod.com > - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:23:08 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: fuel guages required >> Mark, Get two straws and put one end of both in your mouth at the same >> time. Put the opposite end of one in a mug of beer and the opposite end >of >> other straw into the clear air next to the mug. Stuck hard and I don't >> think you will ever get the taste of beer..... an engineering >> study in layman's terms. >I've got a feeling that no mere column of air would be enough to keep me >from getting to that beer! Well, like I said, I'm very skeptical of the >"Y" scheme, and will take appropriate measures to prevent sucking air >rather than fuel. The one-way trap door header tank within the wingtank >is still my plan. I guess this could work with something like a toilet-ball float mechanism in reverse to close off the end of the tube when the fluid level went below a certain level. Aviation batteries work this way, with vents that close when inverted. Make such a design with a float instead of a lead plug and you're all set, but you'd never get all the usable fuel out before it closed. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:23:14 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Rollbars In a message dated 97-09-12 15:21:19 EDT, you write: >Roll Bars: >I just finished my aft canopy stiffener and roll bar. Both were made >from a 1.5" thick x 2" core of lastafoam shaped into an arch with layers >of 8oz glass/aeropoxy (2 layers for stiffener, 3 for roll bar) >(Langford's roll bar has 6 layers and I figure I'm only half as crazy as >he is). The corners where the layers come together were floxxed. The >finished products seem very strong. The one with 3 layers is noticibly >stronger than the 2 layer one. I will later incorporate the roll bar >into the front of the aft deck. Can any of the engineeering guys here give some insight on how to determine how strong a roll-bar needs to be and how to test one to see how strong it is? Obviously, slamming your plane upside-down onto the runway from various heights would work, but there must be a test that would simulate a turnover of a KR at gross weight but would be destructive only to the rollbar being tested. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:25:43 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: deck construction > And think there is a lot to be said for glassing the foam in an >unstressed state. If you bend it and glass it, it'll spend the rest of >it's life trying to straighten back out. A heat gun helps, but you get >more or less stress relief in various places. Sanding well supported >unstressed urethane foam between two templates is a quick and simple no >brainer, the kind of work I accel at. By the way, in our recent debate on >two part foams and their tendency to expand later when exposed to heat, I >just removed most of it before glassing the outside, and replaced it with >micro. Then I went over it with the heat gun, just to make sure that it >was quite finished expanding, Now, if it expands, it won't expand as >much, and it will tend to expand to the inside of the skin, rather than the >outside. Now that Ernest Koppe is on this list, maybe he could tell us whether this two-part foam controversy is real or a myth. My recollection from the old Newsletters is this was a common way to join the urethane and usually worked fine: you heated it with a hair-dryer later or covered it in black plastic in the sun to make sure it finished expanding. The horror stories tended to happen to people who used the stuff in cold weather, never heated it at all after it set, then parked their Kr's in the hot sun. From the way people here talk, you'd think the stuff keeps swelling forever, which would make it unsuitable even for many of the jobs it's sold for. Concerning foam, does anybody know if styrofoam can be sanded the same as urethane, or does it not sand as readily? I was thinking of using styrofoam instead of urethane because urethane dust is toxic, but I like the idea of sanding to get the shape and would not want to use hot wiring, even though this is how styrofoam is often shaped. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:31:52 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: deck construction MikeTnyc@AOL.COM wrote: > Concerning foam, does anybody know if styrofoam can be sanded the same as > urethane, or does it not sand as readily? I was thinking of using styrofoam > instead of urethane because urethane dust is toxic, but I like the idea of > sanding to get the shape and would not want to use hot wiring, even though > this is how styrofoam is often shaped. > > Mike Taglieri It does sand, but not quite as nicely as urethane, but OK. I have only used it on some non-critical places. Just remember that it is not fuel resistant. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:41:34 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rollbars MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > > Can any of the engineeering guys here give some insight on how to determine > how strong a roll-bar needs to be and how to test one to see how strong it > is? Obviously, slamming your plane upside-down onto the runway from various > heights would work, but there must be a test that would simulate a turnover > of a KR at gross weight but would be destructive only to the rollbar being > tested. > > Mike Taglieri This is a hard one to answer. The loads depend so much on the speed involved and the way it flips over. I went a little bit overboard on mine since it does not represent a significant increase in weight. I used 3/4" X 0.049 steel tubing. It is "U" shaped, bolted to a large bearing block at the bottom longerons at the back edge of the baggage area. Then braced at head level back to the top longeron and diagonally braced from pilot head to passenger's right shoulder, then to pilot's left hip. I am also using it as the shoulder harness attachment points. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:44:57 -0500 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re: Rollbars At 16:41 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: >> >> Can any of the engineeering guys here give some insight on how to determine >> how strong a roll-bar needs to be and how to test one to see how strong it >> is? Obviously, slamming your plane upside-down onto the runway from various >> heights would work, but there must be a test that would simulate a turnover >> of a KR at gross weight but would be destructive only to the rollbar being >> tested. >> >> Mike Taglieri > >This is a hard one to answer. The loads depend so much on the speed involved >and the way it flips over. I went a little bit overboard on mine since it does >not represent a significant increase in weight. I used 3/4" X 0.049 steel >tubing. It is "U" shaped, bolted to a large bearing block at the bottom >longerons at the back edge of the baggage area. Then braced at head level back >to the top longeron and diagonally braced from pilot head to passenger's right >shoulder, then to pilot's left hip. I am also using it as the shoulder harness >attachment points. >-- >Don Reid >donreid@erols.com > I like the sound of Don's design. Though harnesses are to be stressed at 25g or more, it does not seem sensible to stress the roll bar for much higher loads than will break the strongest aircraft members - say 9 or 12 g. A steel tube of this kind has the extra advantage that it continues to absorb energy as it distorts and collapses - a big plus. Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:09:46 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: KR-2 project wanted Netters, A friend of mine (located central Illinois) is very serious about acquiring a KR-2 project in the boat stage or there-abouts. He has also advertised for one in Trade-A-Plane. He recently bought a KR-2 project mainly for the engine (glue joints are questionable), so he's hot on picking up a good boat to hang the engine on. He WILL be attending the Gathering at Perry, so bring pictures if you have/know one for sale. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:26:13 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site Email (repy) to cary@storm.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: Steven A Eberhart > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site > Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 2:18 PM > > > What was the event that necessitated the repair to the stub wings? Looks > nasty. If this was already covered I apologize for not consulting the > archives first. > > Your plane looks nice, I am just at the "trying to make sence out of the > plans" stage. Have most of the composite materials but no wood yet. Plan > to build the tail first. > > Steve Eberhart Great stuff. The spars were split through the mounting bolts by someone in a hurry to mount the wings. Did it to both sides too! Hurry kills! I shudder to think of it. I have poured over the plans many times but have had the advantage of a "ready built" bird to compare. My wee thing was built in 1977. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:30:53 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re:Whats "up ducts" - ---------- > From: MikeTnyc@aol.com > Is there any evidence that the valve covers on aero-VW's get too hot in the > first place? I don't have reports on the VW engine, None that I am aware of. Thats why I'm asking. > VW than you might think), the rocker arms and their associated parts are so > underworked that the oil feed to the heads can fail entirely and the engine > will still run well for a long time before the rocker shafts gall. > Sounds reasonable. > Also, VW's original-equipment valve covers do not have fins, nor do the valve > covers on Lycoming and Continental engines. Fins may have been added to > the Revmaster covers as much for looks as for cooling, enough range for > this? > > Mike Taglieri > Yes it looks good even though it is below the cowel. I think I'll not cut them thar holes, even though I'll need one anyway for the bolt. Will cover it somehow. Thanks. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:48:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web site At 10:26 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: The spars were split through the mounting bolts by someone in >a hurry to mount the wings. Did it to both sides too! Hurry kills! > > HOw were the spars split via the mounting holes? Over tightening? Man someone would have really had to put the torque to those bolts to split the spar! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:07:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Willard561@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: fuel guages required Tony B. in one of his articles in Sport Aviation showed a fuel system that used a metal ball in a modified tee to switch pickups. I am not sure of the Date. Bill Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:40:22 +0000 From: Ernest Koppe Subject: KR: Liquid Foam Hello Group, I was "lurking and saw my name mentioned...Seems there is a question on the use of "liquid foam" and whether or not it continues to expand. This has been a question without a definite answer ever since I was building KRs 20 years ago. Some builders that used the stuff swore by it.... and some swore at it. My own personal experience was that the stuff depended on the mix of the two components, much like that of epoxy. I used the "mix it yourself" stuff (don't remember the brand) which consisted of a gallon can and a quart can of the two components. I found that, like epoxy, low humidity and warm temperature was a factor on getting the desired result... If the mix wasn't right, or the weather didn't cooperate the stuff will continue to expand... I'm sure there are "horror stories" about this and I personally have seen more than one KR with tell-tell ridges on their wings caused from the liquid foam continuing to expand after the wing was finished. Anyone in a cool climate that uses the stuff should get some heat on the joints prior to glassing over them....And not just on the outer surfaces...get the heat to the underside or interior of the wing or fuselage too. This seems to be an effective precaution and I don't know of anyone that used heat in this manner to have a problem...Of course, I've been out of touch for several years, so take the above with a measure of caution. One question I expect you'll ask is "how much heat?". I never measured, but the heat from some strategically placed 100 watt bulbs on the inside surfaces over night should provide enough heat there. For the outer surfaces, a halogen heat lamp works fine...If you think this is overkill, next time you go out to your automobile that's been sitting out in the direct sun and put your hand on the top or the hood. I used to have a chart that showed the surface temperature of flat surfaces of various colors. It's why I painted 31158 white. Ernie Koppe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:59:28 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Epoxy, which one? Sports Fans,.... A few months ago there was a discussion on the list about the various epoxies available to builders. Some seem to like AeroPoxy, others Vinylester, and of course I expressed my liking to EZpoxy (safe-t-poxy clone) Well the last batch of epoxy I bough was AeroPoxy and this time I made sure I got the good stuff (numbers recommended by RAF) and I have to say this is great stuff! The AeroPoxy I used last year was the first generation recipe and seem to take forever to harden. The surface stayed tacky for days and it clogged your sand paper in a heart beat! This time I bought the latest recipe and what a difference! You can mix it 3 to 1 by volume which is much easier,.. it wets out VERY nice and the surface was tack free in 24 hours!! The numbers you should look for are PR2095 and PH3662. I also wanted to put in a plug for Superfil! This stuff is GREAT! It goes on nice, sands easy, and doesn't leave hard spots after multiple applications,...something you guys that have filled with micro no all about! PS My samples wetout with EZpoxy and AeroPoxy have been sitting in 100LL for almost a year now and are still rock hard! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:27:54 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy, which one? At 08:59 PM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote: It goes on nice, sands easy, and doesn't leave hard spots after multiple >applications,...something you guys that have filled with micro no all about! > No all about or Know all about? Humm....................... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand \ / _\/\/_ _____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:59:37 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: KR Speeds >>The point is, that 180 cruise is possible, but few people are willing to >>build their plane that light or clean and very few are capable of >>building one that light on the first try. We all make compromises to the >>design that usually costs us in weight and speed. The end result is >>almost always the planes you'll see flying at the gathering. Few are as >>ight or as fast as the specs call for, but most of the pilots would tell >>you their's would be capable if they had built it lighter and/or cleaner. A few days ago, I saw something in one of the old Newsletters that may explain why the KRs list a 180 cruise. Apparently, both the original KR1 and KR2 initially had the static ports inside the cabin. As everybody knows, this does not give an accurate result, but makes the airspeed read too high. The current plans fix this, but I wonder if the 200 mph top and 180 cruise were calculated in a prototype with the internal static port? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:27:36 -0700 From: Dale Thomas Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 project wanted Ed Janssen wrote: > > Netters, > > A friend of mine (located central Illinois) is very serious about acquiring > a KR-2 project in the boat stage or there-abouts. He has also advertised for > one in Trade-A-Plane. He recently bought a KR-2 project mainly for the > engine (glue joints are questionable), so he's hot on picking up a good boat > to hang the engine on. He WILL be attending the Gathering at Perry, so > bring pictures if you have/know one for sale. > > Ed Janssen Ed, I have a KR-2 project that my father started then he died..... I don't have the gumption to finish it... maybe your friend does.....it sounds like I have what he's looking for. Dale ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #96 ****************************