From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 1:47 PM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n111' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #111 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, October 3 1997 Volume 01 : Number 111 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 08:22:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Plwood gussets. At 07:02 AM 10/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Wonder if anyone is/will be trying plywood gussets instead of cutting all >those little blocks. Dan Diehl sorta suggested that in one of his talks. >Sure would improve ones consitiution while involved in that stage of building. > >Ed Janssen > I used both! The old newsletters said it was OK to substitute ply gussets for the 5/8 spruce. Be sure to read the proper installation of plywood gussets in Tony's book! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:02:38 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: VW engines If any advertiser/retailer has NEW VW type 1 dual pressure relief cases for 250.00 please let us know where. steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:25:18 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Neil Bingham's KR If nobody beats me to it, I'll put it out there tomorrow morning, and let you know where it is. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: Horn2004@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Neil Bingham's KR > Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 9:55 AM > > I missed where the Neil Bingham article is posted. Anybody out there know > where I could go to download a copy? > > Thanks, > Steve Horn > Horn2004@aol.com > Dallas, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 10:49:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Neil Bingham's KR At 12:25 PM 10/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >If nobody beats me to it, I'll put it out there tomorrow morning, and let >you know where it is. > >> I missed where the Neil Bingham article is posted. Anybody out there know >> where I could go to download a copy? >> Go here: http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:02:26 -0600 From: "Jeb" Subject: Re: KR: Here goes - Clamps? I bought 5 18inchers and 5 3 footer bar clamps and two deep 'C' clamps and got by OK, set me back about 10-15 dollars for the bar clamps and $5 per clamp on the 'C' jobs Home Depot... I did all my wood work on my trusty Craftsman radial arm saw and disk sander bit in my drill clampled to a table with a slot in it clampled with exhaust pipe clamps - ---------- > From: Robert Covington > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Here goes - Clamps? > Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 4:28 AM > > >Troy Johnson wrote: > >> > >> Okay Gang, > > > >> Okay, after all that, here is my question: What tools do most of you feel > >> are an absolute must? My biggest concern is power tools and any specialty > >> tools you guy's have found useful. I know I am probably beating a dead > >> horse but this is all new for me. The only power tools I have are a > >> dremel, years of r/c planes, and a 1/4" battery operated drill. > >> I am trying to get a consensus of what is felt to be absolutely necessary, > >> low budget building you know! > >> > >I bought a benchtop drill press at Home Depot for about $99 in 1988 at > >Home Depot, possibly the one in Mesa just north of 360, or it could have > >been the one near Chandler, I forget. The benchtop drill press was > >terrific. > > > >Making gussets is a real pain, I did mine the hard way, I also bought a > >benchtop table saw for about $99 at Home Depot.. I think I bought this > >first > >and cut all my 5/8" material with it. Fine tuning the gussets was a > >PAIN, > >so the miter saw might be a better choice, but I don't know what it > >costs. > > > >Also, EVERY trip to Home Depot, buy about two "C" clamps. You will need > >about 15-20 or so, and if you buy them all at once it is painfull. One > >every two weekends and you will have enough by the time you join the > >fuselage sides. > > > >I also picked up a couple of pipe clamps (3 total) these also came in > >handy > >for the fuselage joining, and somewhat during the spar build up. > > > > > >Ross > > > > Ross, > > (or others) > > What size C clamps for the above mentioned operations? > > What length pipe clamps? > > I am at the will-be-needing them stage for spars and fuselage. I can see > where it would be painful to grab them all at once, $%! > > Thanks, > > Robert Covington > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:14:49 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: RAF 48 data? Hi guys, I was running through the wing strength calcs the other night. I wasn't happy. I started to eliminate the conservative assumptions and used shrenk's approximation for the semi-tapered plan form and included the twist of the out-board wing panel and looked at the moment at the edge of the fuselage (instead of the middle of the spar) all of which reduce the conservatism and allow for more gross weight I'm still not showing an acceptable strength for a 1000 lb gross weight. The last thing I can do with hand calcs in include the contribution of the rear spar. In order to do that I need the Cl-Cm and Cl-alpha data for the RAF 48. I know I saw it on the web somewhere a while ago but I can't find it now. Can any one point me in the right direction? And Mike (if you listening) The KR is quite capable of producing enough lift to exceed its G limits at anything over about 120 MPH. In fact with the lower gross weight limits I keep coming up with, an FAR 23 type gust is capable of exceeding the wing strength. I think my mental jury is still out on what I'll consider my maximum safe gross weight (at least 'til I see what the rear spar contributes). I'm sure it will be less than some of the 1200 lb. gross weights some KRs are using now. It may handle OK that heavy but I wouldn't want to always worry about that next big gust. I suppose a limit load test would make me feel better but maybe some of the 1200 lb. KRs are doing that now! When I sort this last part out I'll post the results (and the resulting v-n diagram corners) for any one who believes calculations more than the KR literature and historical data. My goal it to get 1000 lb gross at 3.8 limit and 5.7 ultimate (right now it's the ultimate strength that's the problem) - -Peter hudson- Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:19:48 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RAF 48 data? At 12:14 PM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: In order to do that I need the Cl-Cm and Cl-alpha >data for the RAF 48. I know I saw it on the web somewhere a while ago >but I can't find it now. Can any one point me in the right direction? > > Try: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kraf48.html ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:25:57 -0700 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: VW engines Steve Bennett wrote: > > If any advertiser/retailer has NEW VW type 1 dual pressure relief > cases for 250.00 please let us know where. steve Steve, I don't think the're out there for that price! New $395., used $235. in the Rocky Mountain Motor Works fall catalog, page 119. Bruce S. Campbell Tampa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:09:21 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Plwood gussets. Ed Janssen wrote: > Wonder if anyone is/will be trying plywood gussets instead of cutting all > those little blocks. Dan Diehl sorta suggested that in one of his talks. > Sure would improve ones consitiution while involved in that stage of building. > I hate to disagree with the master, but I've decided that the real purpose of those little gussets is not to prevent the 5/8" members from changing angular relationship to each other, but to give you three or four times as much contact (and strength in tension) with each other than there would be otherwise. The plywood skin gives you the ultimate gusset (at least on one side), but those painful little gussets serve a real purpose, in my mind. It seems that the extra little plywood gussets that some are doing would be somewhat helpful, but obviously there are plenty flying successfully without them. Just my opinion... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:28:23 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: Wanted D-Fly Canopy Anyone out there have a D-Fly canopy for sale (for a KR-2S project)? May even consider buying an airframe too, if a good one. Two projects? Glutton for punishment? - Maybe. Would like to post this on the D-Fly net as well - - shoot me an address if you know it off hand. Thanks. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:57:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Plwood gussets. At 05:09 PM 10/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >I hate to disagree with the master, but I've decided that the real purpose >of those little gussets is not to prevent the 5/8" members from changing >angular relationship to each other, but to give you three or four times as >much contact (and strength in tension) with each other than there would be >otherwise. The plywood skin gives you the ultimate gusset (at least on one >side), but those painful little gussets serve a real purpose, in my mind. >It seems that the extra little plywood gussets that some are doing would be >somewhat helpful, but obviously there are plenty flying successfully >without them. Just my opinion.. I kind feel the same way Mark,..that's why I have both! :o) Actually Tonys book gives reviews of all methods and plywood alone is labeled as good, spruce gussets are labeled better and both is labeled BEST! Its your choice amigo! Mike "2000 pound empty weight KR2SH" Mims ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 18:07:28 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Plwood gussets. At 07:02 AM 10/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Wonder if anyone is/will be trying plywood gussets instead of cutting all >those little blocks. Dan Diehl sorta suggested that in one of his talks. >Sure would improve ones consitiution while involved in that stage of building. > >Ed Janssen > > The plywood gussets are add a lot of strenght but not enough by themselves. The wood blocks are needed and if the wood grain of the blocks are in the wrong orientation then the plywood gussets work great. What you will have then is plywood sandwiched on both sides of the wood - really strong. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 18:58:35 From: Austin Clark Subject: KR: WAF Bedding Compound I am ready to bolt my wing attach fittings to the spars and want to be certain no moisture can find it's way into the bolt holes. Several years ago, I had a wooden boat and used something called bedding compound where steel was bolted to wood. This stuff is like a putty and is supposed to seal and prevent moisture intrusion. Has anyone else heard of this or used it on their wing attach fittings? Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:59:40 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post Throughout the construction of the fuselage sides, the plans call to leave the longerons and skins a bit long "to be trimmed laer when the stern post is fitted." Well, that moment is at hand and I'm wondering what others did to trim to length while setting the angle of the stern post. Any tips on cutting to fit? John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - gluing the cross-members in the belly Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 04:54:57 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post On Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:59:40 -0700, you wrote: >Throughout the construction of the fuselage sides, the plans call to = leave >the longerons and skins a bit long "to be trimmed laer when the stern = post >is fitted." > >Well, that moment is at hand and I'm wondering what others did to trim = to >length while setting the angle of the stern post. > >Any tips on cutting to fit? > >John Bouyea >johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net >kr2s - gluing the cross-members in the belly >Hillsboro, Oregon I have been thinking about this too! I will be at this point very soon and if anybody has any suggestions please reply. Please offer any and all suggestions. Still deciding on how wide to make it!! I have it laid out to make it 45.5" wide at the shoulders (43" inside), but it looks weird. It looks a whole lot wider than any of the pictures of other peoples fuselage. Maybe it's because the sides are staight up and down and the front is wider (40"). I may decide to narrow the front down a few inches and see if that help. =20 Any comments on if the fuselage sides should be straight on the back half like the plans call for, or could they be curved. Does it matter? Thanks, Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:49:22 -0700 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: Re: KR: juno.com (No Archive) I am on juno.com and krnet-l shut me off while I was in Perry (was gone 2 weeks) and got back today. I havent had problems on juno with junk mail. But on Prodigy it is very bad. Tom Stokes at Reno NV On Thu, 2 Oct 1997 03:23:43 -0700 Robert Covington writes: >>I have a whole SLEW of bounced messages to users at juno.com >>If you are at juno.com, send me a message (not to KRNET) >>and let me know you are OK. >>I think that the juno.com mail system may have barfed. >>-- Ross > >I wish they would just shut the service down. I get about ten junk >emails >_a day_ from that place on my AOL email address. > >I am all for people to be able to email freely in principle, but >something >really has to be done about junk emailers. The problem is becoming >huge. >Once you post on a message board or usenet, or godknowswhereelse, your >mailbox is toast. This should not be the case. > > >Robert Covington > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:05:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post At 04:54 AM 10/3/97 GMT, you wrote: >I have been thinking about this too! I will be at this point very >soon and if anybody has any suggestions please reply. Please offer >any and all suggestions. > >Still deciding on how wide to make it!! I have it laid out to make it >45.5" wide at the shoulders (43" inside), but it looks weird. Yea I bet it does look kinda funny! You guys remember to make the widest part at your shoulders (or as close as possible to the trailing edge of the wing) now dang it!!! Mine is 44.5 inches wide (at the knees) on top and 40.5 inches wide at the butt, and it looked like a fat whale! The extra length of the S fuselage seems to disappear when you widen it out that wide and with straight sides I bet it really looks short and fat! Don't worry it starts looking better after you add the turtledecks! As far as cutting the sides for the vertical spar I don't remember running into any issues. I drew the angle on the sides and then just cut them an inch or two too long, I trimmed away the 5/8 spruce longerons so they would butt up against the spar and the skin would overlap the spar plus and inch or so, ... then I glued it all together. If you look at my pictures you will see I didn't add the vertical spar until after I skinned my boat. I used a straight 2x4 mounted to my table to simulate the aft vertical spar and clamped my longerons to it while the boat was under construction. Anyway I hope some of this helps. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:18:19 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post At 04:54 AM 10/3/97 GMT, you wrote: >Any comments on if the fuselage sides should be straight on the back >half like the plans call for, or could they be curved. Does it >matter? > I think you will run into a little trouble later while truing up the foam for the turtledeck if you curve the sides. This will create sort of a compound curve at the t-deck / fuselage joint. Just more work but I guess it could be done. Aerodynamically?? I don't know, I don't do aerodynamics! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 05:45:26 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post On Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:18:19 -0700, you wrote: >I think you will run into a little trouble later while truing up the = foam >for the turtledeck if you curve the sides. This will create sort of a >compound curve at the t-deck / fuselage joint. Just more work but I = guess >it could be done. Aerodynamically?? I don't know, I don't do = aerodynamics! >:o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > \ / > _\/\/_ > ____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > All better now! > I didn't think about that! That sure would be fun trying to sand the turtledeck smooth. I will go ahead and make the sides straight. BTW It does look really short and fat. The pictures of your fuselage don't look weird at all. Maybe it's all in my head!! Thanks, Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK Building Stretched, Widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:36:32 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Thanks and progress I want to thank those of you (Bobby Muse and others) who encouraged me to try building the fuel caps the way the plans say! Worked pretty darn slick and didn't cost a cent! Those kinds of things are gona help me meet my goal! (in the air for less than $10k) Stuff that's happened in my garage since Perry: 1)Ripped out elevator controls and re-installed them the way the plans say (works better this way) 2)Mounted aileron control hardware and rigged cables 3)Mounted rudder pedals and brake cylinders 4)Reduced the size of the elevator and started on new tip extensions on for the horizontal (increase of 2 square feet in area) 5)Installed elevator counter weight bracket 6)Mounted tail spring 7)Finished up aux tank and plumb to inside of cockpit 8)Built fuel caps from orange juice jugs 9)Built two pretty slick fuel gauges (sight type) 10)Cut spars to airfoil shape in preparation of adding foam and glassing stubs 11)Designed and started building special wing root fairings like Tom Taylors Glasair (see Oct Sport Aviation) 12)Contemplating ripping out main landing gear and building lighter ones (retracts???Randy are you listening??) :o) I think I better take a break and take the wife out to dinner and a movie this weekend, has anyone seen her? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:48:36 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post At 05:45 AM 10/3/97 GMT, you wrote: >The pictures of your fuselage don't look weird at all. Maybe it's all >in my head!! > > >Thanks, > Well when I stand up on my table and look at it from the top, it looks FAT! ASk Randy, he has seen it in person! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims \ / _\/\/_ ____/_//\\_\_____ F-117 All better now! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 02:33:14 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Fatso In a message dated 97-10-03 02:02:11 EDT, you write: << Well when I stand up on my table and look at it from the top, it looks FAT! ASk Randy, he has seen it in person! >> Nahhh, not fat, just length challenged, or "Ya know, the guy isn't fat, he is just 6 inches too short..." You just end up with the same look as the regular KR, a bit chubby. No big deal. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:37:03 -0400 From: "Jim Fields" Subject: KR: Dragon Fly Canopy Info KRNetters, I have been attempted to contact Viking Aircraft regarding the dimensions for installing a Dragonfly canopy without any luck. Can someone forward the dimensions/instructions for installing the Dragonfly canopy to me. Thanks in advance...... Take care, Jim SkyTech Innovations, Inc. Mail To: skytech@iserv.net _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:28:23 -0300 From: Jim Sellars Subject: Re: KR: RAF 48 data? I think that the object of defining the safety limits is a very valuable contribution that you offer to make for the benefit of the rest of us. Please do keep up the good work and yes, encourage the discussion of the limits we should wisely operate within. The company seems to have less well defined numbers, in the absence of these we need guys like you to contribute some of the data that is missing. Regards; Jim At 12:14 PM 02/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi guys, > >I was running through the wing strength calcs the other night. I wasn't >happy. I started to eliminate the conservative assumptions and used >shrenk's approximation for the semi-tapered plan form and included the >twist of the out-board wing panel and looked at the moment at the edge >of the fuselage (instead of the middle of the spar) all of which reduce >the conservatism and allow for more gross weight I'm still not showing >an acceptable strength for a 1000 lb gross weight. > The last thing I can do with hand calcs in include the contribution >of the rear spar. In order to do that I need the Cl-Cm and Cl-alpha >data for the RAF 48. I know I saw it on the web somewhere a while ago >but I can't find it now. Can any one point me in the right direction? > > And Mike (if you listening) The KR is quite capable of producing >enough lift to exceed its G limits at anything over about 120 MPH. In >fact with the lower gross weight limits I keep coming up with, an FAR 23 >type gust is capable of exceeding the wing strength. > >I think my mental jury is still out on what I'll consider my maximum >safe gross weight (at least 'til I see what the rear spar contributes). >I'm sure it will be less than some of the 1200 lb. gross weights some >KRs are using now. It may handle OK that heavy but I wouldn't want to >always worry about that next big gust. I suppose a limit load test >would make me feel better but maybe some of the 1200 lb. KRs are doing >that now! > >When I sort this last part out I'll post the results (and the resulting >v-n diagram corners) for any one who believes calculations more than the >KR literature and historical data. > >My goal it to get 1000 lb gross at 3.8 limit and 5.7 ultimate (right now >it's the ultimate strength that's the problem) > >-Peter hudson- >Ridgecrest, CA > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:22:01 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post John Bouyea wrote: > > Throughout the construction of the fuselage sides, the plans call to leave > the longerons and skins a bit long "to be trimmed laer when the stern post > is fitted." > > Well, that moment is at hand and I'm wondering what others did to trim to > length while setting the angle of the stern post. > > Any tips on cutting to fit? > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - gluing the cross-members in the belly > Hillsboro, Oregon I had a problem with that as well. I ended up cutting the longerons to length before bending the sides, and then putting the angle on the longeron when the sides were bent. Then I trimmed the plywood flush with the tail post and faired it into the rudder with foam and glass. - -- Don Reid donreid@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:06:06 -0700 From: Tom Brown Subject: Re: KR: Plwood gussets. Ed Janssen wrote: > > Wonder if anyone is/will be trying plywood gussets instead of cutting all > those little blocks. Dan Diehl sorta suggested that in one of his talks. > Sure would improve ones consitiution while involved in that stage of building. > > Ed Janssen I Plan on using both. After I get it in the boat stage I plan to cut ply gussets and glue them over all fuselage joints. Already have wood gussets in place. I figure there will be know question with the strength of the glue joints. I had a couple spruce gussets with a 1/32 to 1/16 inch gap filled with T-88 on one side. They appear to be strong joints but for my own security I'm going to put ply gussets over them. Please comment Tom Brown tbrown@pcpros.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:07:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: WAF Bedding Compound In a message dated 10/2/97 7:10:33 PM, you wrote: <> Yeah, it's typically referred to as Boat Life, or 5200. Both are trade names. It is basically a polysulfide compound which retains it's flexibility, has incredibly good adhesion (even to wet and oily wood) and makes a tremendous barrier. Any boat supply shop should have it on the shelf. It comes in a regular caulking tube for your regular caulking gun. If you can't find any, just pick-up a copy of WoodenBoat Magazine and contact any of the boat material suppliers in there. Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com Dallas, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:39:46 -0700 From: Tom Brown Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post Micheal Mims wrote: > > > \ / > _\/\/_ > ____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 > All better now! Missing bolts Had parts left over after construction. I guess they did not read assembly instructions or had one heck of a hangover that monday morning :) Tom Brown AIM HIGH AIR FORCE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 08:39:38 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Dragon Fly Canopy Info At 08:37 PM 10/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >KRNetters, > >I have been attempted to contact Viking Aircraft regarding the dimensions >for installing a Dragonfly canopy without any luck. Can someone forward >the dimensions/instructions for installing the Dragonfly canopy to me. >Thanks in advance...... > I know you are asking for the dimensions and I don't have them right now but after working with a Dragonfly canopy I feel knowing the exact dimensions is unnecessary as it is very flexible and will fit a wide range of fuselage sizes. The Dragonfly is around 44 inches wide throughout the cockpit area and about 19 inches tall from the top longerons to the top of the t-deck. Lester Palmer fit one to his narrowed KR2S. It will fit just about any KR fuselage except the KR1,.. then again it may fit one of those too with a little work! :o) If you want to use one do it, I can almost guarantee it will fit. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:41:54 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Thanks and progress Micheal Mims wrote: > 1)Ripped out elevator controls and re-installed them the way the plans say > (works better this way) Mike, Would you care to elaborate on why you did this? I haven't decided how I am going to do my elev. control yet. Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:13:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Thanks and progress At 11:41 AM 10/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Micheal Mims wrote: > >> 1)Ripped out elevator controls and re-installed them the way the plans say >> (works better this way) > >Mike, >Would you care to elaborate on why you did this? I haven't decided how I am going to do my elev. control yet. > I don't know, I just didn't like it. The controls felt weird because at certain points they would bind (even though all attach points were equidistant from pivot) and I didn't like the idea of cantilevering all that weight (balance weight) off of those attach brackets. The setup I have now is much stronger, better, smoother, lighter, etc. I left the attach brackets installed and will use them as a place to secure the shoulder harness cables. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:56:01 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RAF 48 data? At 10:28 AM 10/3/97 -0300, you wrote: >I think that the object of defining the safety limits is a very valuable >contribution that you offer to make for the benefit of the rest of us. How about running the data through to see how much material should be added to the spar caps to bring them up to where they should be (assuming a 1100 pound gross) and posting it on the net? It would be very easy to add material on the spar caps in the insides. Or adding a 1/4 strip to the main caps for those who have already laminated the caps but not built up their spars. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:38:29 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Spar talk In a message dated 97-10-03 14:01:16 EDT, Mike wrote: << How about running the data through to see how much material should be added to the spar caps to bring them up to where they should be (assuming a 1100 pound gross) and posting it on the net? It would be very easy to add material on the spar caps in the insides. Or adding a 1/4 strip to the main caps for those who have already laminated the caps but not built up their spars. >> Hey Netter: There is a program called "Sparama" (or something like that) that will spit out the sizing you need for spars in various configuratons. I'm not a numbers kind of guy (except when it comes to spending money), but I recall hearing it was on the web someplace. Maybe this is a thread you brainy types can follow up on. I know Roy Marsh used a thinner airfoil and beefed up his spar with cap strips or similar to bring his spar back up to the strength he wanted. Your mileage may vary. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 17:36:11 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: WAF Bedding Compound At 10:07 10/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 10/2/97 7:10:33 PM, you wrote: > ><certain no moisture can find it's way into the bolt holes. Several years >ago, I had a wooden boat and used something called bedding compound where >steel was bolted to wood. This stuff is like a putty and is supposed to >seal and prevent moisture intrusion. Has anyone else heard of this or used >it on their wing attach fittings?>> > >Yeah, it's typically referred to as Boat Life, or 5200. Both are trade names. >It is basically a polysulfide compound which retains it's flexibility, has >incredibly good adhesion (even to wet and oily wood) and makes a tremendous >barrier. Any boat supply shop should have it on the shelf. It comes in a >regular caulking tube for your regular caulking gun. If you can't find any, >just pick-up a copy of WoodenBoat Magazine and contact any of the boat >material suppliers in there. > > >Steve Horn >Horn2004@aol.com >Dallas, Texas > > Thanks Steve, I found the stuff at a local marine store. It's made by 3M and called Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200. Cost about $8.00 for a tube. Austin Clark Pascagoula MS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Brewboss@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Here goes At the risk or repeating, I would suggest at least a small table saw and a small disk sander. they both come in very handy while building up to fuselage. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:02:18 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Measuring to fit the stern post At 10:18 PM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 04:54 AM 10/3/97 GMT, you wrote: >>Any comments on if the fuselage sides should be straight on the back >>half like the plans call for, or could they be curved. Does it >>matter? >> > >I think you will run into a little trouble later while truing up the foam >for the turtledeck if you curve the sides. This will create sort of a >compound curve at the t-deck / fuselage joint. Just more work but I guess >it could be done. Aerodynamically?? I don't know, I don't do aerodynamics! >:o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > If you ever had a chance to see my KR or any KR for that matter, compound curves using foam and fiberglass are no problem. Don't be concerned. Hint for all builders: 1. Be creative, it's A.O.K.. 2. No one can tell that the left side is different from the right side. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:24:26 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Thanks and progress At 10:36 PM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >I want to thank those of you (Bobby Muse and others) who encouraged me to >try building the fuel caps the way the plans say! Worked pretty darn slick >and didn't cost a cent! Those kinds of things are gona help me meet my >goal! (in the air for less than $10k) > >Stuff that's happened in my garage since Perry: > >1)Ripped out elevator controls and re-installed them the way the plans say >(works better this way) >2)Mounted aileron control hardware and rigged cables >3)Mounted rudder pedals and brake cylinders >4)Reduced the size of the elevator and started on new tip extensions on for >the horizontal (increase of 2 square feet in area) >5)Installed elevator counter weight bracket >6)Mounted tail spring >7)Finished up aux tank and plumb to inside of cockpit >8)Built fuel caps from orange juice jugs >9)Built two pretty slick fuel gauges (sight type) >10)Cut spars to airfoil shape in preparation of adding foam and glassing stubs >11)Designed and started building special wing root fairings like Tom Taylors >Glasair (see Oct Sport Aviation) >12)Contemplating ripping out main landing gear and building lighter ones >(retracts???Randy are you listening??) :o) > >I think I better take a break and take the wife out to dinner and a movie >this weekend, has anyone seen her? :o) > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims > Thanks, but tell us how you made your sight guages. What materials? what are you going to use to mark levels? Are you restricting the flow thru your sight guages? Are you using any kind of floating ball to be able to see fuel level easier? Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:24:29 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: RAF 48 data? At 10:56 AM 10/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 10:28 AM 10/3/97 -0300, you wrote: >>I think that the object of defining the safety limits is a very valuable >>contribution that you offer to make for the benefit of the rest of us. > >How about running the data through to see how much material should be added >to the spar caps to bring them up to where they should be (assuming a 1100 >pound gross) and posting it on the net? It would be very easy to add >material on the spar caps in the insides. Or adding a 1/4 strip to the >main caps for those who have already laminated the caps but not built up >their spars. > >Micheal Mims > It would be nice if you guys, that are trying to come up with the safety limitations of the KR, would explain the effects of the flexablity of the wood/foam/fiberglass wing on your data. Micheal, you can add extra strenght to the spars but when you do you also put additional stress on the center wing and attach fittings. KISS Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:34:13 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: 97 Gathering page At 08:20 AM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 03:32 AM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: > I couldn't land on the tundra! Isn't it ironic how >last year at the Dragonfly Swarming a Tri-Gear Q or Dragon ran off the >runway and broke itself and this year a Tri-Gear KR runs off the runway and >bends pipe and breaks wood. Gee they are soooooo much safer than the tail >wheel airplanes! :o) > >Seriously, if any of you have the slightest desire to build a tail wheel KR >but haven't flown a tail-dragger, PLEASE don't hesitate to build it like >you want! Tail-draggers ARE NOT hard to fly! Really!! I would like to >choke the daylights out of the guy or GIRL who started that rumor! :o) > >________________________________ > >Micheal Mims > If all of us were to build taildraggers then there wouldn't be enough props to go around..... Just an observation..... The rumor about tail-draggers being hard to fly was actually started by a pilot.... a known fact..... Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #111 *****************************