From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:43 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n143' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #143 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, October 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 143 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:53:46 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Updated Web page Well, I finally got around to updating the web page. I now have a more recent set of photos of the project. Some of it is stuff not to do, like electric flaps (more trouble than they are worth). Several nice shots of canopy latches that turned out very well. Also adjustable pedals for those of you who are not vertically enhanced like me. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:50:28 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: reply:plans,trim,level At 02:48 PM 10/23/97 -0500, you wrote: Trim: I was considering going the "spring in the control system" >route but kept comming back to the separate tab system as a >backup pitch system in case of a failure in the primary pitch >system. Yep I weighed this issue and decided to re-build the elevator horn out of 4130 if I went with the springs. Springs it is, and now I have a steel horn. If it doesn't have a backup it better not fail! :o) ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:50:33 -0400 From: "Alan Moat" Subject: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level I did take the time to study the plans. Aproximately 8 months while I waited for AS&S to ship my order twice times ( while swearing it had been shipped and was on the truck 3 times when it wasn't) when they screwed it up the first time. Being a First time builder and not having seen anyone else plans to compare them to I also considered them acceptable for bulding . I saw all the notes on setting wing incidence and level and where to plumb. I also noted no details on some important items like seatbelt attachments. I did not question whether the banana boat was ok or not. There have been enough of them built that way I was not concerned about it. The two question about which spar to adjust and where best to plumb was so I could mock up the cockpit properly while waiting for my next order of material to arrive. Since others more knowledgeable and experienced than I am have already done this I thought I would ask some basic questions. After all this is why we all subscribed. Sorry I took up your time in reading these two post and their replies. Maybe you should spend more time with your head where the sun doesn't shine, that way you wont have so much time to flame other peoples posts. As far as the number of posts you haven't read maybe you should subscribe to the digest instead. Another solution to your time problem would be not to read the posts your not interested in. I had noticed that most of the foul tempered people had left or shut up now I see we have another one. Alan Moat flowery branch taom@randomc.com - ---------- > From: larry flesner > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: reply:plans,trim,level > Date: Thursday, October 23, 1997 3:48 PM > > Fellow KR builders and want-a-be builders, > > I'm getting behind on reading my KR Net mail (1308 messages) and haven't > even read all the ones on the subjects I would like to through in > by humble opinion on but here goes. > > Plans: I don't think anyone should even think of building a KR of > any kind ( 1, 2, or 2s ) without having all the plans available. > The question should never cross one's mind, even if you discount > 90% of the info. If you can't afford the plans, you can't afford > the airplane!! I have found the plans to be adequate for a first > time builder if you suppliment them with Tony Bingelis books, Wick's > catalog, AS&S catalog, KR Net, KR Gatherings, and other EAA books. > I get the idea from some of the questions asked that some builders > are not familiar with the plans they have in hand. There are holes > yes, but there is also a lot of info there if you take the time to > study the plans. > > Level: My personal opinion is the banana boat syndrome is a point > of totally needless concern. The plans state in section 10.21 on > page 78 that the BEST location to check for o% incidence is the > FIREWALL !!!! Use the firewall as your reference for the entire > project and the top longerons be damned!!!! As for angle of > incidence, check your 48 inch rib drawing. You get 3.5% if your > firewall is plumb (90%) and your front spar is plumb. Mark and > cut your 48 inch rib and use the center piece to set the rear spar. > If you want to change the angle of incidence, remark you your 48 inch > rib before cutting. My mind was in a fog on this whole area until > I studied the drawings and saw how simple it can be. Check it out. > I set my wing center section with 2 bubble levels and when I later > checked it with a "Smartlevel" that I purchased, it was within > one teneth of one degree of 3.5% !!! > > > > Trim: I was considering going the "spring in the control system" > route but kept comming back to the separate tab system as a > backup pitch system in case of a failure in the primary pitch > system. I built the separate tab and only a matter of months > later the KR crashed in Indiana with a "suspected" failure of > the elevator horn. I felt much better about my decission at > that point!!! Do what makes you feel good. It's your butt in > the seat!!!! Note: If you install springs in the system, you > shouldn't be building in something that you can't overpower > manually if there is a failure!!! That seems like a statement > I should't really have to make. > > > Now, with that off my chest, I can get back to reading some more > e-mail and more importantly, back out in the garage and get some > building time in!!! > > > Larry Flesner > > larryfle@midwest.net > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:56:08 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: Construction Manual EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > I'm tired of the belly aching. I'm going to write an unauthorized > construction manual to share how I built my airplane. I'm not going to ask > for Jeanette's approval. I'm not going to criticize the current plans or > manual. I see a need, and I'm going to fill it. Expect the first draft > sometime in early 1999, after my plane has been fully tested and deficiencies > are corrected. > > As for the mean time, either stop bitching and use the considerable resources > available here to build the best airplane you can, or go build something > else. 'Nuf said. > > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" Hear! Hear! You got my vote Rick. Do it! John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:07:42 -0400 From: "Alan Moat" Subject: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level I did take the time to study the plans. Aproximately 8 months while I waited for AS&S to ship my order twice times ( while swearing it had been shipped and was on the truck 3 times when it wasn't) after they cut my 16ft longerons into 8 ft sections on the first order. Being a First time builder and not having seen anyone else plans to compare them to I also considered them acceptable for bulding .. I saw all the notes on setting wing incidence and level and where to plumb. I also noted no details on some important items like seatbelt attachments. I did not question whether the banana boat was ok or not. It was merely a statement that mine was banana shaped. There have been enough of them built that way, so I was not concerned about it. The two question about which spar to adjust and where best to plumb was so I could mock up the cockpit properly while waiting for my next order of material to arrive. Since others more knowledgeable and experienced than I am have already done this I thought I would ask some basic questions and maybe learn more than is what in the manual or on the plans. After all this is why we all subscribed. Sorry I took up your time in reading these two post and their replies. These questions were important to me. If you dont like them dont read them or reply to them. Maybe you should spend more time with your head where the sun doesn't shine, that way you wont have so much time to flame other peoples posts. As far as the number of posts you haven't read maybe you should subscribe to the digest instead. Another solution to your time problem would be not to read the posts your not interested in. I had noticed that most of the foul tempered people had left or shut up now I see we have another one. My apologies to the other members for wasting their time with this post who so graciously give their time and advice free on their web sites and in this forum to answer all of our novice questions however many times they are repeated. I have learned so much from these sites and from other's discussion. Alan Moat flowery branch taom@randomc.com - ---------- > From: larry flesner > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: reply:plans,trim,level > Date: Thursday, October 23, 1997 3:48 PM > > Fellow KR builders and want-a-be builders, > > I'm getting behind on reading my KR Net mail (1308 messages) and haven't > even read all the ones on the subjects I would like to through in > by humble opinion on but here goes. > > Plans: I don't think anyone should even think of building a KR of > any kind ( 1, 2, or 2s ) without having all the plans available. > The question should never cross one's mind, even if you discount > 90% of the info. If you can't afford the plans, you can't afford > the airplane!! I have found the plans to be adequate for a first > time builder if you suppliment them with Tony Bingelis books, Wick's > catalog, AS&S catalog, KR Net, KR Gatherings, and other EAA books. > I get the idea from some of the questions asked that some builders > are not familiar with the plans they have in hand. There are holes > yes, but there is also a lot of info there if you take the time to > study the plans. > > Level: My personal opinion is the banana boat syndrome is a point > of totally needless concern. The plans state in section 10.21 on > page 78 that the BEST location to check for o% incidence is the > FIREWALL !!!! Use the firewall as your reference for the entire > project and the top longerons be damned!!!! As for angle of > incidence, check your 48 inch rib drawing. You get 3.5% if your > firewall is plumb (90%) and your front spar is plumb. Mark and > cut your 48 inch rib and use the center piece to set the rear spar. > If you want to change the angle of incidence, remark you your 48 inch > rib before cutting. My mind was in a fog on this whole area until > I studied the drawings and saw how simple it can be. Check it out. > I set my wing center section with 2 bubble levels and when I later > checked it with a "Smartlevel" that I purchased, it was within > one teneth of one degree of 3.5% !!! > > > > Trim: I was considering going the "spring in the control system" > route but kept comming back to the separate tab system as a > backup pitch system in case of a failure in the primary pitch > system. I built the separate tab and only a matter of months > later the KR crashed in Indiana with a "suspected" failure of > the elevator horn. I felt much better about my decission at > that point!!! Do what makes you feel good. It's your butt in > the seat!!!! Note: If you install springs in the system, you > shouldn't be building in something that you can't overpower > manually if there is a failure!!! That seems like a statement > I should't really have to make. > > > Now, with that off my chest, I can get back to reading some more > e-mail and more importantly, back out in the garage and get some > building time in!!! > > > Larry Flesner > > larryfle@midwest.net > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:15:25 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) you know back in the 80's when i lived down there, and yes evertime i started talking about doing this and that to the kr , well you could just see it in their faces, like shut up, we aren't going to change a thing. anyways, there was a guy there that designed the kr100 with a 0200 engine in it. flew great, i saw the plane when he was fixing the canopy as it came undone. can't remember his name, but he was great to talk to about changes. you said that no one there has a pilots license, is anyone down there a designer? doesn't the grain suppose to run the length of the spar? i don't want to bad mouth RR, they are ok, but, and that could be a big butt, well i don't have to say anything now do i.anyways what i really wanted to know is, what happened to the kr 100? i was also told that they were thinking about building a kr200 on the same design as the 100, what happen? all i know and care about is i will buy the plans and get the rest from all of you and just build the plane and shut up about what RR will do and what they won't do. we should all just drop it and go back and start building and help everyone else out. tandem2 still holding ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:36:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level At 08:07 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Alan Moat wrote: > Maybe you should spend more time with your head where the sun doesn't shine, that way you wont have so much time to flame other peoples posts. > > Did I miss something? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:42:03 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: KR: Wicks I called Wicks this morning about the double charge for shipping. These are great people. The lady I first told ny story to said she would take it to Jeff and he would get back to me. I took that with a grain of salt when I heard it but when I got home from work, Jeff was on the line wanting to hear the story himself. After giving him the check number I wrote to the frieght company and the Wicks invoice number, he said he would call them (the freight company) and get back to me. Ten minutes later he was on the phone with the problem solved. The frieghter made a mistake in charging me as the shipment was prepaid in my order to Wicks. The frieghter will send my check to me and Wicks credited my account for the difference between thier estimate for freight and the actual charge. Nice people. So far all my stuff is from Wicks and all the rest will be too. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:14:20 -0500 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: Updated Web page Donald Reid wrote: > > Well, I finally got around to updating the web page. I now have a more > recent set of photos of the project. Some of it is stuff not to do, like > electric flaps (more trouble than they are worth). Several nice shots of > canopy latches that turned out very well. Also adjustable pedals for > those of you who are not vertically enhanced like me. > -- > Don Reid > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Don, I just took a trip to your website and I am impressed. Your project refelects your enginering ability. I may have missed this in my visit, but what are you going to power your plane with? Not a plane question but I also work for a utility (Detroit Edison) and am wondering how de-regulation is affecting you? We consider our nuke (Fermi 2 1100MW) a stranded asset. How so with yours? John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:17:04 -0400 From: David Batton Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce Doug fir is how I went with mine, think I spend like $200 total for it all!! :) Micheal Mims wrote: > At 12:21 AM 10/23/97 -0700, Ross wrote: > >John Roffey wrote: > >> > >> By the way, the spruce has gone up a lot this summer, $839 for the 2S > >> kit. John Roffey > >> jeroffey@tir.com > >In 1988 (When I started my KR-2 project) I think retail was about $600 > >or so, I got a wood kit (Complete and still in the Wicks Crates) for > >$400. WOW! This was a good think as I was anxious to start and there > >was a 6-8month waiting list for spar stock I was told. UGH! > >-- Ross > > > > Can you say Doug FIR? Clear of course! > > Its looking better all the time! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:25:04 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Rotary engines Sorry, you guys looking for rotary power for the KR. I looked through my Ross Aero stuff again, and I don't think you want to pursue this. They refer to the Mazda 13B, a 2-rotor engine, which has an all-up weight including water side stuff, over 300 lbs. I would rule this puppy out. Horsepower, they write, is in the Lyc. 0-360 range. Again, not for KRs. They claim to have experimented with the 12A, smaller and lighter, but disappointing results (this was years ago). Good part of their literature is that they can help you with other stuff like finding an engine (auto conversion), redrive ratios, engine mounts, etc.,,, but all custom. They don't claim to stock anything, or to have any 'standard' configurations... it's all custom for your application. Props, too. Their stuff is worth reading just to get that true-blue experimenter feeling, though. These guys go against the grain, spend their own money to do things the way their dream and hands and tools say to do it, then get with it. I like the attitude; very much like what I see on KRNet. I had pretty much ruled out planetary redrives in favor of belts, but reading the Ross literature convinced me that the planetaries have good features, too- like having prop axis same as crankshaft axis. I could have a swoopy cowling without those deep, hanging jowls that come with a down-low engine. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:31:26 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Internal Springs > >As usual, AOL 2.5 won't open this diagram and AOL 3.0 crashed when I tried, >so I'll have to leave it up to my imagination. However, isn't "using a >spring in compression" what most taildraggers with tailwheel springs do >nowadays? The pull from the chains connect internally to the opposite ends >through the middle of the spring, so when you pull on the chain, the spring >compresses. Seems fairly simple. > >Mike Taglieri > Hey, whattya know! My 'el cheapo' Netscape/Hotmail combo showed them red and blue springs beautifully! Yes, you have exactly the idea. Also, if you have ever had a little boat trailer with shackles that hold the boat transom onto the trailer, they typically have this spring arrangement with the "internal" connection. They would definitely fail safe if a spring broke, for whatever trouble that could possibly cause. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:43:00 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: EagleGator's Construction Manual Hey, now! Here's a 'Netter I can definitely attune to. I had the same idea- why doesn't some semi-literate (sorry, Randy) KR builder use his own project, plus gathered experience, to put together an 'underground' builder's manual. With a good, clean bird in the air, good construction progress photos and notes, good test period data- this thing could be great. After reading Rick's draft of the flight test manual (be sure to read it if you have time), I'm sure he would be putting together a good manual. Now if he put the thing out for FREE we'd really be talking! Well, how bout at least a discount to 'Netters? Hey, Rick- you could call the discount "nothing but Net". Sorry. Oscar Zuniga ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:54:51 From: Austin Clark Subject: KR:Rudder Pedals Shelf or Floor Greetings Fellow Netters, I've spent my evenings this week cutting, fitting and welding my rudder pedals. Found a scrap piece of 1" thick white plastic in the dumpster at work and made the bearings for them. Now I am ready to mount them. The plans show them mounted to the floor, but the manual says that some builders have mounted them to the shelf with good results. I think the shelf mounting may be best since the only way I can see to mount them to the floor is with wood screws (just don't like the idea of using wood screws). So what problems might I encounter by mounting them to the shelf? Does this mean the brake cylinders will be upside down? Does it matter if they are? Sure would make for a cleaner looking installation with the pedals hanging down. Austin Clark Boat sprouting wings in Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:57:33 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Wicks I agree John. They have been helpful for me with the few problems I've had. Austin Clark KR2S/Subaru Pascagoula, MS >Nice people. So far all my stuff is from Wicks and all the rest will be >too. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:12:19 -0400 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Trim System At 07:29 PM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:38 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Jeffrey E Scott wrote: >>Mike, >> >>Have you looked at the trim system in a Glassair? =A0It is simple and >>produces the same sort of trim control you are looking at except that the >>springs are in compression.=20 > >For some reason "using a spring in compression" and "simple" don't seem to >go together in my mind. Maybe someone should draw a picture! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike: =A0=A0 I just thought I would throw in my two cents worth on how I re-designed the control system for my "restoration" project. First off, I replaced the single stick with a dual stick arrangement. This left the centerline of the control system free to use a push pull tube( 1/2 " =A0=A0stainless =A0.065") that runs from the cross tube to a control horn behind the seat ( and rear spar). The brackets I fashioned for the horn replace the dual pulleys that the plans call for. From there the rest is cable operated. Now for trim and springs...on this push pull tube is a block of aluminum 1"X2"x2" with a 5/8"hole thru it (offset) . Parallel to the 5/8" hole is another hole which I pressed a flange nut into that has a 1/4" thread. Put a threaded rod thru the nut and connect the end to a small electric window motor and you have a way to move the 1"x2"x2" =A0block back and forth on the push pull tube.=20 Now all that remains to be added is 9/16" I.D. compression springs on the push pull tube on either side of the alum. block and you are done. This system allows me to have 1) dual control sticks =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2) no cable running back and forth on your thigh =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3) a self centering stick =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 4) electric trim (full elevator) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A05) adjustable spring tension, by where I put the clamps on= the push pull tube. ( I eventually will drill and cotter pin the tube, but for now I don't know how much spring loading I want, so I'm leaving it adj. for now) I also added a boat trim gauge to the panel for trim indication. I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or is helpful , but if anyone has questions , feel free to ask. Regards: =A0=A0Dennis (in Toronto)=20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:37:42 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:07 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Alan Moat wrote: > > Maybe you should spend more time with your head where the sun doesn't > shine, that way you wont have so much time to flame other peoples posts. > > Did I miss something? Well Michael, just that the main point to this thread keeps getting lost in the shuffle. So pardon me while I say it one more time with feeling: IT AIN'T ABOUT THE MONEY!! IT'S ABOUT GETTING YOUR MONEY'S WORTH!!! We now return you to your regular programming currently in progress. Thank you, Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:35:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Steen8751A@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Rotary engines Tracy Crook wrote a mazda rotary converson book and had flown it for over 400 hours in his RV4. His Email address is 71175:606@compuserve.com. He advertises in Sport Aviation and sells a newsletter as well. Doug Steen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:40:19 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Internal Springs They're probably too strong, but check out some storm door limit springs at Home Depot. They're compression springs with a loop at either end. Might work(the springs/not me), Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:47:13 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat In a message dated 97-10-23 01:04:16 EDT, you write: << I've never had a problem with 'em, I ordered aluminum tubing, fittings and mixing cups/stir sticks and vinyl ester and boom, arrived here in 5 days. only one thing on back order and they told me up front. John Bryhan jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Los Alamos, NM ---------- > From: Mark Pierce > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Cc: Starks, Dick > Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester for finish coat > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 9:57 PM > > Just had to jump in here on experience with AS&S. > Dummy that I am I've been burned by them twice. The last incident was > about two years ago where I lost $260 and an artificial horizon gyro to > AS&S. It's a long story but AS&S did not stand by their product, would > not discuss resolution in three months of trying, and left me holding > the bag without so much as a "sorry". I'll never order from them again > and do not feel the least bit guilty in advising anyone else not to do > so either. Their prices aren't really lower when you add up all the > delays, bad or wrong merchandise, lost dollars, phone calls, etc. I > recommend that you use a major Credit Card and dispute the charge if > your not satisfied. They are a low class operation. > -- > Mark Pierce > markpi@oz.sunflower.org > PA22/20 N3817P - SWPC > Nieuport 11 N4140C - The Dawn Patrol > KR2S (future ?) > http://www.sunflower.org/~dstarks/ > > > JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 97-10-22 08:09:47 EDT, you write: > > > > << That doesn't help me finish my two wing tanks that are 95% > > done, but it IS what I'd expect from AS&S. I'm not going to be real happy > > if I have to use another type of vinylester to glue the tops on my tanks > > and seal all of the lines in place. > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >> > > > > Does Wicks have it. I've not done much business with AS&S mainly due to > > these type posts but have always gotten good support from Wicks. All my KR > > stuff has come from them. > > > > Jim Hayward > >> One other thing.... I needed a 5/8 X 3 X 36 piece of spruce to replace a piece I'd messed up on the firewall one weekend. I called AS&S Monday morning and was told I would have a 6 to 8 week backorder for it. I thanked them and called Wicks for the same item. UPS delivered it that following Friday. I've never called AS&S back. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KR parts 4 sale Hey KRNetters: Anyone looking for some wood? This just hit my E-mail box: <> Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:25:03 +0000 From: Steve Bennett Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce In 1973 when I built my first KR the spruce kit was under $100.00 Sbennett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:26:37 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR:Rudder Pedals Shelf or Floor Austin Clark wrote: > > I've spent my evenings this week cutting, fitting and welding my rudder > pedals. Now I am ready to mount them. > > The plans show them mounted to the floor, but the manual says that some > builders have mounted them to the shelf with good results. I think the > shelf mounting may be best > So what problems might I encounter by mounting them to the shelf? Does > this mean the brake cylinders will be upside down? Does it matter if they > are? Sure would make for a cleaner looking installation with the pedals > hanging down. > - ------------------------- That is a good question. I took several pictures of rudder pedals at the KR gathering but they did not turn out. Anyone else have any pictures of rudder pedals mounted to the top shelf. Maybe some one could post some pictures or a drawing of top mounted rudder pedals somewhere. I don't know, seems like it would be difficult to make the brakes work????? Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:21:06 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: KR parts 4 sale E-mail on its way John F. Esch Salem, OR BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > Hey KRNetters: > > Anyone looking for some wood? This just hit my E-mail box: > > < Date: 97-10-23 22:16:54 EDT > From: Lv2fly24 > To: N911TB, DClarke351, Shibas1, Wildfill, Ken 8504 > To: Horn2004, FENDI, EagleGator, LVav8r, RJMOTLF > To: Robert7721, BSHADR > > I have my KR-2 fuslage, inboard spars, and other parts for sale. > The fuslage is in the boat stage the sides, bottom, and tail post are > all > set. > Lack of time force my sale and I need to clean the garage. > All can be had for $500.00. > > Please contact Bill Fulmer @ (405) 341-6033 > or E-mail at Lv2fly24@aol.com>> > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:48:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level (and progress) Jeb read this! At 11:37 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Patrick Flowers wrote: >Well Michael, just that the main point to this thread keeps getting lost >in the shuffle. So pardon me while I say it one more time with feeling: > > IT AIN'T ABOUT THE MONEY!! IT'S ABOUT GETTING YOUR > MONEY'S WORTH!!! > OK I am done RR and Plans Bashing and bitching about the cost of Spruce in the USA. Buy your plans, and build it out of FIR! :o) Guess what the Spruce Goose was built out of? Hint, for the most part,.. it wasn't spruce! On the progress front,.. tonight I cut out and polished all the aluminum fittings for the trim system and the new elevator horn was cut out and fitted, I will permanently mount everything tomorrow night. GOOD news on the spar grain orientation front. I spoke with a builder here on the KRnet who personally spoke with Kevin Kelly about the same issue and was told the end grain orientation didn't matter at all. THIS WAS GREAT NEWS to say the least! Now I can happily return to my construction mode without the fear of having to rip the main spar out and start over! Talk about a REAL bummer! Sorry Mark, no delay in construction is in the forecast! Mike "BIC back in pocket" Mims ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:19:53 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 00:17:21 -0700, you wrote: >Can you say Doug FIR? Clear of course! > >Its looking better all the time! :o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > I have built most of the boat with about $30.00 worth of Douglas Fir! Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:15:45 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Throttle Linkage Question Ross wrote: > > Tom, > > I've got a GPASC 1835CC with Great Plains 4->1 Exhaust and > Great Plains Intake. An Ellison TBI and Compu-Fire CDI ignition. > Now If I can just wire up the throttle, I can turn her over. > I guess the mixture & carb heat would be usefull too. > > I built up one carb heat plenum but I wasn't happy with the results, > I'm looking for ideas before I trash some more stuff. > > (I wired the firewall side of the electrical yesterday & today.) > > -- Ross > > Tom Crawford wrote: > > > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > > HELP! Again. > > > > > > THROTTLE LINKAG EMOUNT QUESTION > > > In all the photos of KR engines I've seen, it has been VERY difficult > > > to get a good look at the throttle & mixture linkages. > > > > > > So here I am, wanting to start my engine up, and I'm trying to avoid > > > a Rube Goldberg mouse-trap, toothpaste throttle linkage. > > > > > > I bought some very nice ACS push-pull controls, the black and red > > > knobs look really pretty in the cockpit, but I need some hints on > > > what to do with the other end. (Besides that!) > > > > > > I would appricate it if folks who have SOLVED this problem could > > > dig up some photos/drawings, this is one of those tricky areas that > > > I think needs to be done right. > > > > > > Also.... I have the Great Plains downtubes with my Ellison, and > > > believe that SOME form of mechanical attachment to the engine is > > > necessary besides the hose & C-clamps. Has anyone got ideas here? > > > > > > I'm stumped. (At least for the moment.) > > > > > > -- Ross > > > -- > > > > > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE > > > PIN#895-9073 > > > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x > > > 1632 > > > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > > > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > > > > Ross, > > > > What engine are you using? > > > > Tom Crawford > > tomc@afn.org > > Gainesville, FL Ross, What you have is similar to what I have. The location of the TBI (forewards and backwards) is dictated by where your intake ends. I then hung the TBI with 2 pieces of AL angle bolted together to change the "bolting plane". One angle piece bolts thru the intake to TBI bolts. The second piece bolts to this piece- this one is the "hanger" that goes up and bolts to a convienient case bolt on the bottom of the engine. Clear as mud, right. As for the carb heat box, I spent a long time agonizing over it, but once I figured out exactly what I needed, it didn't take very long to build. I built a square box out of .020 AL sheet. Very easy to work with, and not too expensive.I then riveted 1.5" hose flanges to the front and side for intake and heat. Cut out the back to fit the TBI and attatch bolts. The box is actually 2 "U" shaped pieces that are pop riveted together when you are done. For the flapper post, I used a scrap piece of AL tube. The flapper is a piece of .020 AL sheet. I used a Dremel tool to "route" out a channel in the middle of the tube for the flapper and thru bolted it with a couple small SS bolts. The whole flapper assembly is mounted in the front corner of the box with washers and cotter pins holding it in place. For the control arm, I really liked the look of the mixture control arm that Ellison sends you- light, and very high quality, so I ordered another for the carb heat. If you need more details, call me. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL (904)462-5362 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:42:59 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR:Rudder Pedals Shelf or Floor Austin Clark wrote: > The plans show pedals mounted to the floor, but the manual says that some > builders have mounted them to the shelf with good results. I think the > shelf mounting may be best since the only way I can see to mount them to > the floor is with wood screws (just don't like the idea of using wood screws). I bolted to the floor by countersinking into firewall cross brace and some extra 5/8" thick pads. Installed the bolts with large diameter washers, and the filled the cavity with flox. Seems to work great. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:23:42 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level (and progress) Jeb read this! Micheal Mims wrote: > > OK I am done RR and Plans Bashing and bitching about the cost of Spruce in > the USA. Agreed. The S/N ratio on this thread is spiralling downward. > Buy your plans, and build it out of FIR! :o) Yup! Patrick "last post on this thread" Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:57:54 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: reply:plans,trim,level larry flesner wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:27:04 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Trim System > However, isn't "using a spring in compression" what most taildraggers with >tailwheel springs do nowadays? The pull from the chains connect internally >to the opposite ends through the middle of the spring, so when you pull on >the chain, the spring compresses. Seems fairly simple. >See I was making it way to complex! I was thinking about springs inside of >tubes with special fittings on each end for the connection. (kinda like a >preload device) Thats how its done on big birds! Anyway, how is using a >spring like this any safer than using it the other way? If the spring >breaks you still lose tension on one side and full trim would be applied to >the other? Right? Right, although I suppose with either kind of spring you could move the trim control to get rid of the "full trim on the other side," then fly without trim. Maybe it's better so if you're heavy-handed, springs in compression will bottom out rather than stretch and deform. Anyway, you don't have to worry about breaking springs if you follow the rules: articles on spring-type systems ALWAYS say the springs should be regularly inspected and replaced, and I believe downsprings on certified planes are the same way. If I were using a screen-door spring, etc., I'd buy a lot of them as soon as I found one that worked right to make sure they weren't discontinued and also to make sure they were all the same. Then I'd replace them at intervals (every 100 hours or annually or whatever). Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #143 *****************************