From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 1997 5:56 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n144' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #144 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Friday, October 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 144 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:34:36 -0400 From: Benjamin Harvey Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce To anyone with an educated opinion: Has anyone done any calculations on the increase in the overall weight of a KR-2 or S if it were build from Douglas Fir as opposed to Spruce? Am I correct that fir is actually stronger than spruce but it has a higher density? Are there any other differences between them? In the back of my mind I remember something about fir having a lower strength in compression, can someone confirm or denign this? If fir were to be used in the design could the longeron's cross-section be reduced to take advantage of it additional strength thereby reducing some of the weight penalty of using fir or does it's extra weight prevent this? And if one was to also use mahogony (sic) plywood for the sides could you get the weight back down to that the typical KR-2? Would the mohogony raise the cost back to the cost of using spruce? Has anyone looked into using Hemlock? Serious replies requested but jokes are encouraged. Ben Harvey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR2 For Sale: WAIT!!!!!!!! >>There is a KR2 project just about complete in Nebraska. Spoke with >>the owner tonight. >One point to consider. If the plane is almost complete, you need >to determine how you will get it certified. Unless you can prove >you built 51% (whatever PROVE means), you may not get it signed >off to fly. > >Will let others comment on my rambling. If the seller says on the phone that it's "just about complete," I'm sure the buyer can do enough work to satisfy the FAA in the 600 more hours the project needs. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:39:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 07:19 AM 10/24/97 GMT, you wrote: >I have built most of the boat with about $30.00 worth of Douglas Fir! > > >Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P >Claremore, OK >Building stretched and widened KR-2S > >bbland@busprod.com >http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm > I am moving to the hanger on the 15th of next month, I will then have enough room to build up a center section spar and I plan to do this using clear fir, and then the fun part. I plan to load it until it breaks! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:36:29 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Trim System Dennis Ambrose wrote: > I just thought I would throw in my two cents worth on how I re-designed the > control system for my "restoration" project. > First off, I replaced the single stick with a dual stick arrangement. This > left the centerline of the control system free to use a push pull tube( 1/2 > " stainless .065") that runs from the cross tube to a control horn > behind the seat ( and rear spar). The brackets I fashioned for the horn > replace the dual pulleys that the plans call for. From there the rest is > cable operated. > Now for trim and springs...on this push pull tube is a block of aluminum > 1"X2"x2" with a 5/8"hole thru it (offset) . Parallel to the 5/8" hole is > another hole which I pressed a flange nut into that has a 1/4" thread. Put > a threaded rod thru the nut and connect the end to a small electric window > motor and you have a way to move the 1"x2"x2" block back and forth on the > push pull tube. > Now all that remains to be added is 9/16" I.D. compression springs on the > push pull tube on either side of the alum. block and you are done. > > This system allows me to have 1) dual control sticks > 2) no cable running back and forth on your thigh > 3) a self centering stick > 4) electric trim (full elevator) > 5) adjustable spring tension, by where I put the clamps on the push > pull tube. ( I eventually will drill and cotter pin the tube, but for now I > don't know how much spring loading I want, so I'm leaving it adj. for now) > > I also added a boat trim gauge to the panel for trim indication. > > I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or is helpful , but if > anyone has questions , feel free to ask. > > Regards: Dennis (in Toronto) Dennis, Design sounds very good. I have 3 questions: 1. has this spring design been proven to work on a KR in actual practice? 2. Will it allow you to get full stick travel if needed? 3. Is there any chance the springs might set up a PIO. (I know of one person who tried springs on a KR and scrapped them). Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:49:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR:Rudder Pedals Shelf or Floor At 11:42 PM 10/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >Austin Clark wrote: >> The plans show pedals mounted to the floor, but the manual says that some >> builders have mounted them to the shelf with good results. I think the >> shelf mounting may be best since the only way I can see to mount them to >> the floor is with wood screws (just don't like the idea of using wood screws). > >I bolted to the floor by countersinking into firewall cross brace and some >extra 5/8" thick pads. Installed the bolts with large diameter washers, and >the filled the cavity with flox. Seems to work great. > I used long countersunk machine screws and drilled up through the bottom of the fuselage into my bearing blocks. I then used a spade bit to remove about 1/32 of the material from the outer skin, I floxed in what we called in the USMC "skin washers" I am not sure of the AN part number but they are dimpled to accept countersunk screws. Anyway these skin washers are flush with the outer skin and the screws sit nice and flush with the bottom skin. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:57:09 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Trim System At 10:27 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote: If I were using a screen-door spring, etc., I'd buy >a lot of them as soon as I found one that worked right to make sure they >weren't discontinued and also to make sure they were all the same. Then I'd >replace them at intervals (every 100 hours or annually or whatever). > >Mike Taglieri > Silly me, I bought FAA PMA approved AN springs! :o) Oh well they only cost around $4 each so no big deal! ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:03:18 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 10:34 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >To anyone with an educated opinion: > >Has anyone done any calculations on the increase in the overall weight >of a KR-2 or S if it were build from Douglas Fir as opposed to Spruce? >Am I correct that fir is actually stronger than spruce but it has a >higher density? Are there any other differences between them? In the >back of my mind I remember something about fir having a lower strength >in compression, can someone confirm or denign this? I looked into using FIR after I bought my spruce, we have a lumber yard full of GREAT Clear Doug FIR. Your right on all accounts and the total gain in weight would be somewhere around 7 pounds. I think if I plan to use FIR I would stick to plans and accept the extra 7 pounds and know my ship was stronger than on built from spruce. FIR is a spruce substitute depending on what material you read. I don't know about the compression thing but it should mention it in the EAA publication techniques "WOOD" The Firebird is built out of Hemlock. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:27:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: EagleGator's Construction Manual In a message dated 10/24/97 10:28:45 AM, you wrote: <> OUCH! Steve Horn Horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:19:26 EDT From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Construction Manual In a message dated 97-10-24 12:28:45 EDT, Oscar (the trouble maker) wrote: << After reading Rick's draft of the flight test manual (be sure to read it if you have time), I'm sure he would be putting together a good manual. Now if he put the thing out for FREE we'd really be talking! Well, how bout at least a discount to 'Netters? >> I guess this is a good time as any to KRWhine. Rick, Mark, Jeff & Mike: Got your ears up? Not if your smart I 'spose. How about you guys all doing a little part of it over the next year or so? We could slowly add sections as completed to someplace on KRNet.org for the newer guys and gals who follow later on. It would be kind of cool. Heck we could even let RR refer people to KRNet.org so the newbee trek for knowledge isn't such a circuitous one. Me thinks more KRs would be finished and flying in the future if we did this. Heck, we may even get some respect from the "real" airplane guys…nah, maybe not. Randy Stein KRWhinemeister BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:04:16 -0600 From: "jeb" Subject: KR: Re: Construction Manual Let me get this straight, we're talking construction manual, free online. Don't you think Rand Robinson is going to see this as taking food out of their mouths? I suppose we could offer it to her and then she could start selling it. john - Los Alamos NM jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:56:28 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: RE: Construction Manual - ---------- From: EagleGator@aol.com[SMTP:EagleGator@aol.com] Sent: 23 October, 1997 02:32 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: KR: Construction Manual I'm tired of the belly aching. I'm going to write an unauthorized construction manual to share how I built my airplane. I'm not going to ask for Jeanette's approval. I'm not going to criticize the current plans or manual. I see a need, and I'm going to fill it. Expect the first draft sometime in early 1999, after my plane has been fully tested and deficiencies are corrected. As for the mean time, either stop bitching and use the considerable resources available here to build the best airplane you can, or go build something else. 'Nuf said. Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" I think I like your way of thinking Kobus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:26:48 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: KRNET.ORG not KRNET.COM Don, I checked out your webpage, and saw ROSS YOUNGBLOOD KRNET.COM Whoops! KRNET.COM is a Korean website provider, no KR stuff there! You want KRNET.ORG! http://www.krnet.org - -- Thanks Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:36:36 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Lv2fly24@aol.com]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id SAA08986; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710240155.SAA08986@smtp1.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Lv2fly24@aol.com] >From krnet-l-owner Thu Oct 23 18:55:40 1997 Received: from mrin43.mail.aol.com (mrin43.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.153]) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08966 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:55:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Lv2fly24@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin43.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA26474 for krnet-l@teleport.com; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971023215535_457993903@mrin43.mail.aol.com> To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: kit for sale I've got my KR-2s fuslage, inboard spars, and other parts for sale $500.00. the fuslage is in the boat stage, all sides, bottom and tail post are set. for more info please call Bill Fulmer (405) 341-6033 - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:43:07 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Don Rieds Website Don has some terrific photos on his website. I think the idea of routing the fuel line in the wing fillet was a capitol idea. Someday I will rip mine out and do it like yours. A VERY professional looking job. Makes mine look like kludge city. Hmm... Also, excelently engineered header tank! COOL! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:44:34 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 8] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------4A7B7C1D31D2DE922D857063 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------4A7B7C1D31D2DE922D857063 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id FAA11486; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 05:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 05:53:36 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199710241253.FAA11486@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 8 >From krnet-l-owner Fri Oct 24 05:53:30 1997 Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [204.248.40.16]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA11431 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 05:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marion41.midwest.net (marion41.midwest.net [206.158.74.51]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA07715 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:18:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 07:18:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199710241218.HAA07715@cdale3.midwest.net> X-Sender: larryfle@midwest.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: krnet-l@teleport.com From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level .........snip............. Sorry I took up your time in >reading these two post and their replies. Maybe you should spend more time >with your head where the sun doesn't shine, that way you wont have so much >time to flame other peoples posts. As far as the number of posts you >haven't read maybe you should subscribe to the digest instead. Another >solution to your time problem would be not to read the posts your not >interested in. I had noticed that most of the foul tempered people had >left or shut up now I see we have another one. > > >Alan Moat >flowery branch >taom@randomc.com > >...................................... Alan, I think you took my post much more personal than it was intended!!!! I'm sorry if you felt "flamed". My statement on people not knowing the plans was a generic reply and not directed at anyone personally. There are many questions asked where the answer is in the manual but then I miss things too. One example that comes to mind is the thread about the G rating of the structor that appeared a few months back. People were throwing out numbers off the top of their head when the manual clearly states on page 6 in the "introduction" that the "design stress loading is +/- 7g's at 800 pounds. I admitted there are holes in the plans and looking back these holes seemed much bigger when I started than they do now at 80% completion. The lack of seatbelt info ,for example , was overcome by checking out some KR's at the Gatherings. Other holes were filled with the other sources I mentioned.I would encourage you to keep asking if you are unsure but don't overlook the many other sources of info available besides the KR Net. My point on the "banana boat syndrome" was simply to say the plans give an alternate reference (and I think better) to use in setting the wing center section. The process I used is not in the manual but became clear after looking at the drawings. It took more than a few minutes to "get the picture" and that is why I offered it to you in my post. I am in no way discounting the very good work done by others to eliminate the "banana boat", I'm only saying it doesn't need to be a obsticle. Now, if you still feel flamed , I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY !!!!!!!! If there is anything else you feel uncomfortable with in my post, please let me know and we will set things stright. If not , it's history. In reply to the follow-up post about getting your money's worth, it seem's there are a number of people who feel they are getting their money's worth in spite of the many shortfall's in the plans. But that is pretty much a personal thing and everyone has a right to their opinion. Enough said , I hope......... Larry Flesner larryfle@midwest.net p.s. your post was the first time in my 52 years of life that I have been accused of beening "foul tempered" !!! Gee, a new life experence !!!!!!! - --------------4A7B7C1D31D2DE922D857063-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:47:09 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Throttle Linkage Question Tom Crawford wrote: < bunch of stuff snipped > > > > Ross, > > > > > > What engine are you using? > > > > > > Tom Crawford > Ross, > > What you have is similar to what I have. The location of the TBI > (forewards and backwards) is dictated by where your intake ends. I then > hung the TBI with 2 pieces of AL angle bolted together to change the > "bolting plane". One angle piece bolts thru the intake to TBI bolts. The > second piece bolts to this piece- this one is the "hanger" that goes up > and bolts to a convienient case bolt on the bottom of the engine. > Clear as mud, right. > > As for the carb heat box, I spent a long time agonizing over it, but > once I figured out exactly what I needed, it didn't take very long to > build. > I built a square box out of .020 AL sheet. Very easy to work with, and > not too expensive.I then riveted 1.5" hose flanges to the front and side > for intake and heat. Cut out the back to fit the TBI and attatch bolts. > The box is actually 2 "U" shaped pieces that are pop riveted together > when you are done. > For the flapper post, I used a scrap piece of AL tube. The flapper is a > piece of .020 AL sheet. I used a Dremel tool to "route" out a channel in > the middle of the tube for the flapper and thru bolted it with a couple > small SS bolts. > The whole flapper assembly is mounted in the front corner of the box > with washers and cotter pins holding it in place. > For the control arm, I really liked the look of the mixture control arm > that Ellison sends you- light, and very high quality, so I ordered > another for the carb heat. > If you need more details, call me. > > Tom Crawford > tomc@afn.org > Gainesville, FL > (904)462-5362 Tom, Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! I will read this and post answers/questions. I think I got the part that was clear as mud already!!! -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:48:58 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce Benjamin Harvey wrote: > Has anyone looked into using Hemlock? Serious replies requested but > jokes are encouraged. > > Ben Harvey I think the firebird on my website was all done in hemlock. And I mean ALL no glass, just wood throughout. It's called a firebird but the design was loosely based on the KR, according to the builder-flyer Norm. Check out http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm look at the rotating features link... - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:39:16 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: fuel cap I've heard many of you extoll the virtues of the homemade fuel cap, 1. exactly what/where is it you are buying with this cap? 2. How do you get it to be flush mounted? Bob Smith (too busy flying, building, working, doing the honeydo list and bussing kids around to comment on the crummy RR plans & manual) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:51:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level At 12:44 PM 10/24/97 -0700,Larry Flesner wrote: <<<<<<<<<<< My statement on people not knowing the plans was a generic reply and not directed at anyone personally. There are many questions asked where the answer is in the manual but then I miss things too. One example that comes to mind is the thread about the G rating of the structure that appeared a few months back. People were throwing out numbers off the top of their head when the manual clearly states on page 6 in the "introduction" that the "design stress loading is +/- 7g's at 800 pounds.>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you are underestimating the capabilities of some here on the net! We all knew those numbers were there, the argument was that those numbers were mis represented and or WRONG. Just like the CG being called out as 15 to 35 % of airfoil when there aint no way in heck that a KR2 at gross weight at 35% airfoil can be considered a safe airplane. Those are the kinds of holes that we are talking about, as well as other items which seem to need a little more detail. Anyway I said I was done with this thread and I am so that's about all I have to say! :o) Imagine that! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 04:32:07 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce Benjamin Harvey wrote: > Has anyone done any calculations on the increase in the overall weight > of a KR-2 or S if it were build from Douglas Fir as opposed to Spruce? > And if one was to also use mahogony (sic) plywood for the > sides could you get the weight back down to that the typical KR-2? > Has anyone looked into using Hemlock? Serious replies requested but > jokes are encouraged. > > Ben Harvey From ANC-18 Modulus Maximum Crush density of Rupture Strength #/ft^3 Sitka Spruce 9,400 4,700 28 Douglas Fir 9,900 5,100 31 Western Hemlock 11,000 5,500 30 Using fir over spruce, at exactly the same dimensions, will add about 10 pounds(max). Using mahogany ply for the sides vice birch would save about 2 pounds. Hemlock, if you can find aircraft quality pieces, would be an outstanding choice. I have never looked at the numbers for Hemlock before this questions, but it has excellent potential as a strucural wood. In comparison to spruce, it is slightly weaker in compression perpendicular to the grain and in shearing strength parallel to the grain, but these are not significant. - -- Don Reid (Absolutely no sense of humor) mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:27:07 -0500 From: Kerry Miller Subject: Re: KR: fuel cap At 04:39 PM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >I've heard many of you extoll the virtues of the homemade fuel cap, > >1. exactly what/where is it you are buying with this cap? >2. How do you get it to be flush mounted? I'll have to admit, the description of this part in the plans was pretty feeble. Read it over a few times (it's in the plans in 2 places) and it will make sense. Let me see if I can do the abbreviated version. 1. Buy a plastic container at the grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc., with a neck the size you want your gas cap to be. 2. Cut the top off, but cut it about a half inch below the neck so you'll have something to hang on to while you're working on it. 3. Remove the lid, and throw it and the rest of the container away since you've mutilated it anyway. 4. Turn the neck of the container upside down on something flat (cover the something flat with wax paper) and tape it so it will stay put. 5. Fill the neck up with epoxy to the bottom of the threads (or what would have been the bottom if it was right side up...) You should have about 3/4 inch or so of epoxy, more if you have a long necked container. 6. Wait for the epoxy to harden, unscrew it from the bottle neck, and cut a slot in the top. You can use a coin to unscrew the cap if you cut the slot right. I used a small cutoff wheel in my drill to cut the slot, but didnt' go all the way to the edge. That's it. Pretty cheap gas cap, flush and not too awfully heavy. It's not as hard to make as it sounds here or in the plans. I was planning on trying several times, but my first one worked great. Keep 'em Flying, Kerry Miller Royse City, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:16:20 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce In a message dated 97-10-24 12:05:44 EDT, you write: << Your right on all accounts and the total gain in weight would be somewhere around 7 pounds. I think if I plan to use FIR I would stick to plans and accept the extra 7 pounds and know my ship was stronger than on built from spruce. >> I thought I'd read in a publication that FIR was about 20% or so heavier than spruce which is why I didn't go with it. Was I mistaken? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:52:10 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Construction Manual Randy Stein wrote: > Rick, Mark, Jeff & Mike: Got your ears up? Not if your smart I 'spose. How > about you guys all doing a little part of it over the next year or so? Hey, remember when I tried to summons up a group effort to do an online construction manual about two years ago? Nobody responded. Same with redoing the most vital of past newsletters. That's why I've sort of given up on group efforts from this bunch. But now there are a lot more of us, and some new blood too. If I got some help, I'd gladly do it. We could divide it up a bit, with somebody doing fuselage, somebody doing wings, ... I think you could take some of our web pages and add some text and you'd have it. And now we have lots of pictures of almost every detail of construction on a web page somewhre. The pictures alone would put it head and shoulders above the factory manual. The the whole thing could be assembled on our newfound web site. I'm game. Let's divide it up and conquer it! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:54:49 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: fuel cap Just a comment on the procedure from a ground-bound KR dude. Would it make the "cap" stronger to add some cotton flock... ie, make it a flox fuel cap? Ron At 05:27 PM 10/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 04:39 PM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I've heard many of you extoll the virtues of the homemade fuel cap, >> >>1. exactly what/where is it you are buying with this cap? >>2. How do you get it to be flush mounted? > >I'll have to admit, the description of this part in the plans was pretty >feeble. Read it over a few times (it's in the plans in 2 places) and it >will make sense. Let me see if I can do the abbreviated version. > >1. Buy a plastic container at the grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc., with a >neck the size you want your gas cap to be. >2. Cut the top off, but cut it about a half inch below the neck so you'll >have something to hang on to while you're working on it. >3. Remove the lid, and throw it and the rest of the container away since >you've mutilated it anyway. >4. Turn the neck of the container upside down on something flat (cover the >something flat with wax paper) and tape it so it will stay put. >5. Fill the neck up with epoxy to the bottom of the threads (or what would >have been the bottom if it was right side up...) You should have about 3/4 >inch or so of epoxy, more if you have a long necked container. >6. Wait for the epoxy to harden, unscrew it from the bottle neck, and cut >a slot in the top. You can use a coin to unscrew the cap if you cut the >slot right. I used a small cutoff wheel in my drill to cut the slot, but >didnt' go all the way to the edge. > >That's it. Pretty cheap gas cap, flush and not too awfully heavy. It's >not as hard to make as it sounds here or in the plans. I was planning on >trying several times, but my first one worked great. > >Keep 'em Flying, >Kerry Miller >Royse City, TX > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:04:42 -0500 From: Kerry Miller Subject: Re: KR: fuel cap At 06:54 PM 10/24/97 -0600, you wrote: >Just a comment on the procedure from a ground-bound KR dude. > >Would it make the "cap" stronger to add some cotton flock... >ie, make it a flox fuel cap? > >Ron Ron, From one "grunt" to another, it probably wouldn't hurt. I do know that mine came out fine, but I plan to be careful not to chip out the slot like some I've seen. The flox might help that situation, I just didn't try it 'cuz it wasn't in the plans. But then, neither are a lot of things... Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:23:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: fuel cap At 05:27 PM 10/24/97 -0500, Kerry Miller wrote: That's it. Pretty cheap gas cap, flush and not too awfully heavy. It's >not as hard to make as it sounds here or in the plans. I was planning on >trying several times, but my first one worked great. > >Keep 'em Flying, >Kerry Miller >Royse City, TX > Follow those plans and see the pictures at the bottom of this page: http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/fuel.html I have more pictures but they are not scanned yet. They show the cap with the slot (orange part that's full of epoxy) and the bottle cap (yellow piece) being floxed into the fiberglass neck I made with the glass around the paper tube trick. The paper tube has duct tape around it as a release agent and is then covered with about 3 layers of 6 oz cloth. (it makes sort of a flanged insert) After cure I trimmed it up and floxed it into the top of the fuel tank. Fits nice and flush and will work just fine! Use flox in your epoxy as it will make it 100% stronger and it should resist chipping. It really is easy, and I planned to build a couple myself and use the best one but the first came out so good I used it! End of story! Mike "online builders manual ready" Mims ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level (and progress) Jeb read this! In a message dated 97-10-24 22:14:29 EDT, you write: << On the progress front,.. tonight I cut out and polished all the aluminum fittings for the trim system and the new elevator horn was cut out and fitted, I will permanently mount everything tomorrow night. >> What do you use... finer and finer grained sandpaper on a sanding disc? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:34:05 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 07:16 PM 10/24/97 -0400, JEHayward@aol.com wrote: I thought I'd read in a publication that FIR was about 20% or so heavier >than spruce which is why I didn't go with it. Was I mistaken? > >Jim Hayward > And how much spruce are you actually using in a KR? Spar caps and longerons! Maybe 100 pounds of it? if you gained even 20 pounds the weight savings will cost you about $35 a pound! 20 x $35 = $700. yea that's about right! Someone on the net did the calcs last year and came up with a weight savings of about 7 to 10 pounds. If you gained 10 pounds it will cost you $70 a pound to use spruce. Get where I am going? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce In a message dated 97-10-24 22:42:03 EDT, you write: << I thought I'd read in a publication that FIR was about 20% or so heavier >than spruce which is why I didn't go with it. Was I mistaken? > >Jim Hayward > And how much spruce are you actually using in a KR? Spar caps and longerons! Maybe 100 pounds of it? if you gained even 20 pounds the weight savings will cost you about $35 a pound! 20 x $35 = $700. yea that's about right! Someone on the net did the calcs last year and came up with a weight savings of about 7 to 10 pounds. If you gained 10 pounds it will cost you $70 a pound to use spruce. Get where I am going? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Duuhhh!! I never thought of THAT. Oh well, I've already used the box of spruce! Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 04:51:24 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Re: Construction Manual On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:52:10 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, remember when I tried to summons up a group effort to do an online >construction manual about two years ago? Nobody responded. Same with >redoing the most vital of past newsletters. That's why I've sort of = given >up on group efforts from this bunch. But now there are a lot more of = us, >and some new blood too. If I got some help, I'd gladly do it. We could >divide it up a bit, with somebody doing fuselage, somebody doing wings, = ... > I think you could take some of our web pages and add some text and = you'd >have it. And now we have lots of pictures of almost every detail of >construction on a web page somewhre. The pictures alone would put it = head >and shoulders above the factory manual. The the whole thing could be >assembled on our newfound web site. I'm game. Let's divide it up and >conquer it! > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > I'm game too! I'll help in any way I can. Let's do it! ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #144 *****************************