From: Majordomo@teleport.com[SMTP:Majordomo@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 1997 3:28 AM To: john bouyea Subject: Majordomo file: list 'krnet-l' file 'v01.n145' -- From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com (krnet-l-digest) To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #145 Reply-To: krnet-l-digest Sender: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Errors-To: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Precedence: bulk krnet-l-digest Saturday, October 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 145 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:22:24 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: TANDEM2@aol.com Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Reply-to: krnet-l@teleport.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 97-10-24 04:02:22 EDT you know back in the 80's when i lived down there, and yes evertime i started talking about doing this and that to the kr , well you could just see it in their faces, like shut up, we aren't going to change a thing. anyways, there was a guy there that designed the kr100 with a 0200 engine in it. flew great, i saw the plane when he was fixing the canopy as it came undone. can't remember his name, but he was great to talk to about changes. you said that no one there has a pilots license, is anyone down there a designer? doesn't the grain suppose to run the length of the spar? i don't want to bad mouth RR, they are ok, but, and that could be a big butt, well i don't have to say anything now do i.anyways what i really wanted to know is, what happened to the kr 100? i was also told that they were thinking about building a kr200 on the same design as the 100, what happen? all i know and care about is i will buy the plans and get the rest from all of you and just build the plane and shut up about what RR will do and what they won't do. we should all just drop it and go back and start building and help everyone else out. tandem2 still holding ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:23:13 -0400 (EDT) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: TANDEM2@aol.com Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Reply-to: krnet-l@teleport.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 97-10-23 01:15:24 EDT ok, fine, now you are really scareing me. is any of it worth it? about the Vision, yes you are right, he does have a nice layout and very easy to understand. you all have forgotten, the kr's are from the 70's and they don't want to change anything, i am surprise they even talk to any of you who are changeing the plane, which i think is the right thing to do. this plane has so much to offer and the way all of you are going about it, all of that will come out. i thought real hard about the Vision, but i still come back to the kr. there is just something about this bird and of course all of you who are building and trying to build a better kr for all of us to follow. ok, now since i said all of these great things about you all who is giving me there plans (kr2 and kr2s) tandem2 in holding ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:49:46 -0600 From: "Jeb" Subject: KR: KR100 ---------- > anything now do i.anyways what i really wanted to know is, what happened to > the kr 100? i was also told that they were thinking about building a kr200 on > the same design as the 100, what happen? The guys name is Kevin Kelly, I THINK he still has it (KR100) he was into building racers for Reno (his own design) last time I talked to him, had his ph# around but lost it in my recent move. John Bryhan jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Los Alamos, NM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:50:15 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Re: Construction Manual On Sat, 25 Oct 1997 04:51:24 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:52:10 -0500, you wrote: > >>Hey, remember when I tried to summons up a group effort to do an online >>construction manual about two years ago? Nobody responded. Same with >>redoing the most vital of past newsletters. That's why I've sort of = given >>up on group efforts from this bunch. But now there are a lot more of = us, >>and some new blood too. If I got some help, I'd gladly do it. We = could >>divide it up a bit, with somebody doing fuselage, somebody doing wings,= ... >> I think you could take some of our web pages and add some text and = you'd >>have it. And now we have lots of pictures of almost every detail of >>construction on a web page somewhre. The pictures alone would put it = head >>and shoulders above the factory manual. The the whole thing could be >>assembled on our newfound web site. I'm game. Let's divide it up and >>conquer it! >> >>Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >>email at langford@hiwaay.net >>KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford >> > >I'm game too! I'll help in any way I can. Let's do it! > > > Sorry forgot to add this before I sent it! Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S bbland@busprod.com http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:43:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level (and progress) Jeb read this! At 10:32 PM 10/24/97 -0400, JEHayward@aol.com wrote: What do you use... finer and finer grained sandpaper on a sanding disc? > > Jim Hayward > I have two belts for my bench sander, medium and fine grits then I use wet or dry (with water) and lots of elbow grease! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 00:17:54 -0400 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Trim System At 11:36 AM 10/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >Dennis Ambrose wrote: > >> I just thought I would throw in my two cents worth on how I re-designed= the >> control system for my "restoration" project. >> First off, I replaced the single stick with a dual stick arrangement.= This >> left the centerline of the control system free to use a push pull tube(= 1/2 >> " =A0=A0stainless =A0.065") that runs from the cross tube to a control= horn >> behind the seat ( and rear spar). The brackets I fashioned for the horn >> replace the dual pulleys that the plans call for. From there the rest is >> cable operated. >> Now for trim and springs...on this push pull tube is a block of aluminum >> 1"X2"x2" with a 5/8"hole thru it (offset) . Parallel to the 5/8" hole is >> another hole which I pressed a flange nut into that has a 1/4" thread.= Put >> a threaded rod thru the nut and connect the end to a small electric= window >> motor and you have a way to move the 1"x2"x2" =A0block back and forth on= the >> push pull tube. >> Now all that remains to be added is 9/16" I.D. compression springs on the >> push pull tube on either side of the alum. block and you are done. >>=20 >> This system allows me to have 1) dual control sticks >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02) no cable running back and forth on your thigh >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03) a self centering stick >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04) electric trim (full elevator) >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A05) adjustable spring tension, by where I put the clamps on= the push >> pull tube. ( I eventually will drill and cotter pin the tube, but for now= I >> don't know how much spring loading I want, so I'm leaving it adj. for= now) >>=20 >> I also added a boat trim gauge to the panel for trim indication. >>=20 >> I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or is helpful , but if >> anyone has questions , feel free to ask. >>=20 >> Regards: =A0=A0Dennis (in Toronto) > >Dennis, >Design sounds very good. I have 3 questions: 1. has this spring design=20 >been proven to work on a KR in actual practice? 2. Will it allow you to=20 >get full stick travel if needed? 3. Is there any chance the springs=20 >might set up a PIO. (I know of one person who tried springs on a KR and=20 >scrapped them).=20 > >Bob Smith, Albany, NY To my knowledge, 1) no-one is using a push pull tube with this spring arrangement, so "proven" is a yet to be determined quantity. But this system is so simple, it's silly. To design it I=20 knew I wanted the springs to be compression springs and this was the simplest way to do it. I also wanted the push pull tube fairly low in the cockpit so as to clear the molded fiberglass seat I made. 2) As a designer of a modified control system, you need to make sure the ratios are the same as the ones called out for in the plans to minimize the unknown variables.(unless you want more or less travel-some guys increase the ratio and others decrease it) The jury is still out but it is my feeling that with the springs to increase stick feel the stick could be lengthened or the ratio reduced slightly to allow you to have finer control of the elevator. This system isn't really expected to fix a pitch problem that can only be cured with a larger and/or longer tail. I didn't change the ratios, but can very easily by moving the attach point at the push pull tube / control horn. 3) The springs just center the elevator and therefore would not induce any oscillations the plane wouldn't already experience anyway. In summary : the system was designed to give the elevator a self centering action (using compression springs for safety) , a means of electric trim (which I prefer) , clean up the cockpit for seat clearance , and give me a way to increase or decrease the control stick/ elevator ratio if I want to experiment with it later. I think this is the answer a lot of guys should look at, I'll let you know in the spring how it works. Any other questions are welcome. Regards: Dennis (in Toronto)=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 21:48:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 10:51 PM 10/24/97 -0400, JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > Duuhhh!! I never thought of THAT. Oh well, I've already used the box of spruce! > > Jim Hayward > So did I!! :o( I also forgot to mention that there could be a 3,4 or 5 week wait for spruce and more than likely the lumber yard has a truck load or two of clear fir. Keep in mind this aint the stuff the 2x4 studs are made of. Ask to see the good stuff, usually in smaller cuts and knot free! Some of the stuff here locally is not free and the grain is true and straight and tight! Much better looking wood than the spruce I got from AS&S! Keep in mind it only looked better, as I have no idea if it was. If I was planning to use FIR I would test individual pieces to make sure it is up to par for aircraft use. The EAA book "WOOD" tells how. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: 25 Oct 1997 10:51:16 +0900 From: Mouse@heiwa.com Subject: KR: Re: Construction Manual KR>Randy Stein wrote: KR>> Rick, Mark, Jeff & Mike: Got your ears up? Not if your smart I 'spose. KR>How KR>> about you guys all doing a little part of it over the next year or so? KR>Hey, remember when I tried to summons up a group effort to do an online KR>construction manual about two years ago? Nobody responded. Same with KR>redoing the most vital of past newsletters. That's why I've sort of given KR>up on group efforts from this bunch. But now there are a lot more of us, KR>and some new blood too. If I got some help, I'd gladly do it. We could KR>divide it up a bit, with somebody doing fuselage, somebody doing wings, ... KR> I think you could take some of our web pages and add some text and you'd KR>have it. And now we have lots of pictures of almost every detail of KR>construction on a web page somewhre. The pictures alone would put it head KR>and shoulders above the factory manual. The the whole thing could be KR>assembled on our newfound web site. I'm game. Let's divide it up and KR>conquer it! KR>Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL KR>email at langford@hiwaay.net KR>KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford Go for it dude. What you and Mike have been doing with your own Web sites by sharing your building experiences has been a tremendious help to me with some of the gray areas in the manual that RR provides. But I also understand thier position because of liability problems. To many greedy lawyers in this world. Tim Schuy KR-2S builder in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 22:25:03 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 09:48 PM 10/24/97 -0700, Micheal Mims wrote: Keep in mind this aint the stuff the 2x4 studs are >made of. Ask to see the good stuff, usually in smaller cuts and knot free! >Some of the stuff here locally is not free a Make that KNOT free! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 13:28:24 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: RE: KR: Retractable U/C hinge brackets Ross, For reasons of simplicity in South Africa we use the term Under Carriage (U/C) for both fixed and retractable, as very few commercial or military aircraft today still have fixed U/C. You must bear in mind that we not only have to put up with American Daftness, we also have French, English, German, Italian and lately also Russian Terminology. As the first commercial and military aircraft we came into contact with were British we took on their terminology as the standard and stuck to it. The American terminology is definitely in the minority as almost all the other countries mentioned above use a system very close to the British system. Sorry about all this but the original reason for the letter regarding the cracked hinge bracket were for reasons of safety and to inform other KR-2 owners and operators of a problem that I found on my aircraft. I do not recall asking for a lecture on the aircraft terminology as used in the USA. Thanks Kobus Kobus, I think this was one of the reasons that the Retract Gear has lost ground to the fixed gear or Under Carrage (U/C for those who drive on the left.) - -- Ross Kobus de Wet wrote: > > The reason that ZS-WPX has not been airborne yet is because I found two of > the three U/C hinge brackets cracked. These are the brackets that attaches > to the U/C beam and rotates around the bolt in the bracket against the > spar. > Both these brackets are castings of very poor quality. There is no way that > I can determine if these brackets came from RR (USA) or from a local > supplier that was dealing out of Lanseria Airport (Pretoria area) > The bottom line is it does not matter where these come from, what does > matter is that all builders and operators should have a good look at their > U/C hinges. > The cracks runs through the outer two holes in the brackets. > > Its hell to get those bracket out of there. Making up a set out of 4130 > > Kobus (might be flying soon) de Wet > > South Africa - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:24:49 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: "Engineering" >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:09:32 -0700 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >From: Micheal Mims >Subject: Re: KR: 2S Supplement - Worth $75?(was New Plans?) >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > MikeMims wrote: >In some states its illegal to have the word >"engineer" in the company name unless there is and actually engineer on >staff. Hummm................ > Yep, the same thought crossed my mind, Micheal. I'm a registered engineer in California, and it didn't come easy. However, I think RR was "grandfathered" in, because of Ken. Wouldn't happen today, though. >Interesting note, last night I looked through the "Spars" section >desperately looking for something that mentions grain direction of the spar >caps, nothing! Found absolutely nothing! Is this not important? > Very important. I will look in Bingelis' book, but there are far more authoratative texts. Hope they're OK, because we'd all hate to have you throw in the towel at this point. >Last weekend I noticed my spar caps when cut by AS&S have the grain at about >20 degrees from horizontal, is this going to kill me? Someone tell me >please! >If I find out my main spar is wrong there is gona be a BIG bonfire at Chino >next week and I will start construction on a LongEZ or Vision pronto! I >will keep yall posted on the KR burning party! What kind of beer do yall >like? :o) Don't do it, Mike! - -Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 08:33:46 -0700 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > I thought I'd read in a publication that FIR was about 20% or so heavier > than spruce which is why I didn't go with it. Was I mistaken? > > Jim Hayward ANC-18 lists six kinds of fir: Normal @ 31#/ft^3, light @ 28 #/ft^3, California red @ 28#/ft^3, noble @28 #/ft^3, pacific @27#/ft^3, and white @26#/ft^3. The last two are the least strong and are slightly weaker than sitka spruce. The others are at least as strong as sitka. Douglas fir seems to be the most commonly available. Sitka spruce is of course listed at 28#/ft^3. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 05:53:47 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Doug Fir >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:17:04 -0400 >From: David Batton >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Doug fir is how I went with mine, think I spend like $200 total for it >all!! :) > Hey, then- Is there anybody who mills Doug Fir "kits" for the KR? Man, I can step outside about 20 ft. and see enough Doug fir to build an entire invading Luftwaffe of KRs! Problem is, I wouldn't know where to start as far as looking for proper grain direction, clearness, and etc. And, any idea how many cu. ft. of wood is in a kit? From that, even my simple mind can multiply out the 28 lb./cu.ft. versus 31 or so, to see how much weight the switch from spruce to fir would hurt the project. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:03:53 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Plans; Moneys' Worth >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:37:42 -0400 >From: Patrick Flowers >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: Re: reply:plans,trim,level >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Micheal Mims wrote: >> >> At 08:07 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Alan Moat wrote: >> > Maybe you should spend more time with your head where the sun doesn't >> shine, that way you wont have so much time to flame other peoples posts. >> >> Did I miss something? > >Well Michael, just that the main point to this thread keeps getting lost >in the shuffle. So pardon me while I say it one more time with feeling: > > IT AIN'T ABOUT THE MONEY!! IT'S ABOUT GETTING YOUR > MONEY'S WORTH!!! Patrick; What I detect here is that the plans and manual, while not as nice as other stuff out there, are OK if you are a tweaker and are on KRNet. Don't do it if you're not a hacker! The price is not going to drop due to my complaining that they aren't worth the asking price; the plans won't be upgraded or modernized...EVER; the factory won't be of much help on technical items, and probably frowns on mods or deviations. Take 'em for what they're worth, buy both the plans, manual, and -2S supplement (if you're building a -2S), and just do it. I bought a set of plans from a KRNetter (haven't gotten them yet, though), and will be purchasing the supplement. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:15:14 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: KR parts 4 sale >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:21:06 -0700 >From: "John F. Esch" >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: KR parts 4 sale >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >E-mail on its way > >John F. Esch >Salem, OR > Hey, John- Didja buy it? Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:28:22 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Breaking test spar >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:39:06 -0700 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >From: Micheal Mims >Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > >I am moving to the hanger on the 15th of next month, I will then have enough >room to build up a center section spar and I plan to do this using clear >fir, and then the fun part. I plan to load it until it breaks! > >________________________________ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Hey, Micheal- You gonna make a bonfire at Chino with the broken spar parts? Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:46:19 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: "Free" Construction Manual >From: "jeb" >To: >Subject: KR: Re: Construction Manual >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:04:16 -0600 >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Let me get this straight, we're talking >construction manual, free online. Don't >you think Rand Robinson is going to see >this as taking food out of their mouths? > >I suppose we could offer it to her and then >she could start selling it. > > john - Los Alamos NM > >jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > Hi, John; I think I started this thread. Rick never said he would offer anybody his manual, free or otherwise. Some of us just thought it would be a good deal if put together in his very clear style, and definitely a resource to supplement the somewhat skimpy RR offering. My thoughts go back to when a friend and I rebuilt his blown VW using Muir's book "How To Keep Your VW Alive and Well", or whatever it's called. If you're not familiar with it, it's an unauthorized, spiral-bound manual which leads the dummy through all of the necessary tasks of caring for a VW, including a complete engine overhaul (which is what we did). Very clear, step-by-step, tells you how to do stuff if you don't have the special tools, etc.- and I doubt that VW lost any sleep when it was published. This is the US of A- where we can do this kind of stuff. I see the same thing on the Airsoob list- people get the Subaru shop manual, PLUS the Haynes manual, PLUS the Chilton, etc.- because each has its strong points. They complement each other. Anyway, why would RR object to getting more KRs in the air? Myself, I prepare plans and specifications for mechanical and electrical systems for a living. I cannot hardly even talk to my wife over the dinner table without something to sketch on/with... I talk in diagrams and sketches! To me, vague drawings are like raking your fingernails down the chalkboard. I would love to participate in some sort of "Alternative" KR Construction Manual, especially if I could do some of the illustrations. No, I'm no Tony Bingelis, but my heart is in it. Anyway, this is all hot air from me, since I haven't started my project yet. So, for the time being, I "assume the position" (that's READING position, Randy), and get ready for the day when I start cutting wood. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 07:47:02 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce At 08:33 10/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > >> I thought I'd read in a publication that FIR was about 20% or so heavier >> than spruce which is why I didn't go with it. Was I mistaken? >> >> Jim Hayward > >ANC-18 lists six kinds of fir: Normal @ 31#/ft^3, light @ 28 #/ft^3, >California red @ 28#/ft^3, noble @28 #/ft^3, pacific @27#/ft^3, and white >@26#/ft^3. The last two are the least strong and are slightly weaker than >sitka spruce. The others are at least as strong as sitka. Douglas fir seems >to be the most commonly available. Sitka spruce is of course listed at >28#/ft^3. > >-- >Don Reid >mailto:donreid@erols.com >http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > > Aircraft grade wood is quarter sawn. The log is quartered lenthwise and then palnks are cut from each quarter. Normal (lumberyard) wood is slab cut. The log is squared and then the planks are cut. The quarter sawn wood yeilds a grain direction that is equally strong in both planes. If you use fir from the lumberyard, choose carefully. Austin Clark KR2S / Subaru Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:07:21 -0500 From: robert k adams Subject: Re: KR: Re: Construction Manual >snip > >Go for it dude. What you and Mike have been doing with your own Web >sites by sharing your building experiences has been a tremendious help >to me with some of the gray areas in the manual that RR provides. But I >also understand thier position because of liability problems. To many >greedy lawyers in this world. > >Tim Schuy >KR-2S builder in Japan > hi guys just thought i would inject a little item that crossed my mind. now days the liability cloud looms over everybody so i wonder if it might not be worth considering calling them the kr diary's of how you did it saying this worked for me, you are welcome to use my method if you like and your results may or may not work as well as it did for me. or something to that effect would not ruffle rr's feathers as much and also free you from the liability cloud. just a thought bob adams ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:20:39 -0400 From: "Alan Moat" Subject: KR: apology My apologies to Larry Flesher. Must have been a bad day on my part. Alan (open mouth insert keyboard) Moat flowery branch taom@randomc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 08:29:07 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Re: "Free" Construction Manual >>Let me get this straight, we're talking >>construction manual, free online. Don't >>you think Rand Robinson is going to see >>this as taking food out of their mouths? >> >>I suppose we could offer it to her and then >>she could start selling it. >> >> john - Los Alamos NM > Semantics may solve any concerns. Perhaps if you call it "KR Construction Tips" or similar, then any concern about copyright and such would be eliminated. Especially if just enough was left out that you HAD to have the plans to build it. AS someone said, it would be complementary to the plans. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 07:54:37 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: High Cost of Spruce Austin Clark wrote: > > > > Aircraft grade wood is quarter sawn. The log is quartered lenthwise and > then palnks are cut from each quarter. Normal (lumberyard) wood is slab > cut. The log is squared and then the planks are cut. The quarter sawn > wood yeilds a grain direction that is equally strong in both planes. If > you use fir from the lumberyard, choose carefully. > > Austin Clark > KR2S / Subaru > Pascagoula, MS-------------------------- Thats right. Keep in mind that the spruce is aircraft grade. Doug fir at the lumber yard is not. You are comparing apples to oranges. A couple of years ago I bought some Sitka Spruce and Douglas fir 4 X 6 boards from a local mill. The price I paid was the same for both spruce and Doug fir. If you buy Aircraft grade Doug fir it will be expensive. Especially if you have some one mill it for you. Thats not to say you can not find Doug Fir at the lumber yard that is every bit as good as Aircraft grade if you know what you are looking for, you will just have to look closely at it. As Austin says, look for boards that are quartersawn. For what its worth Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. Northe endof Boeing vield Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:03:53 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: No archive - Sky Pup? Netters, Need help locating a set of construction drawings for the Sky Pup ultralight (I've acquired the kit and a construction manual, dated 1983). Airplane was offered by Sport Aviation Engineering, Inc., Grand Junction, CO. Sure would appreciate any help - perhaps someone who knows who built one. Any info appreciated. E-mail me direct, so I don't take up more KR space. Thanks much! Ed Janssen ejanssen@chipsnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 08:40:48 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Doug Fir II >Some of the stuff here locally is not free and the grain is true and >straight and tight! Much better looking wood than the spruce I got from >AS&S! Keep in mind it only looked better, as I have no idea if it was. If >I was planning to use FIR I would test individual pieces to make sure it is >up to par for aircraft use. The EAA book "WOOD" tells how. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims Hey, Micheal- Can we make a bonfire at Chino with the broken fir from the tests? Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:24:54 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Doug Fir At 05:53 AM 10/25/97 PDT, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >And, any idea how many cu. ft. of wood is in a kit? From that, even my >simple mind can multiply out the 28 lb./cu.ft. versus 31 or so, to see >how much weight the switch from spruce to fir would hurt the project. > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon > Isnt there a ratio there? If you only use 150 pounds of spruce in your KR what would it weigh using fir? Do the math or ask any 6th grade student to do it for you! :o) I came up with something like 16 pounds, then again the 6th grade was A LONG time ago! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:56:17 -0500 (CDT) From: larry flesner Subject: KR: rudder pedals top mount top mounted pedals-- Someone posted a question about top mounted pedals. I mounted mine on the bottom 1/4inch ply of the top motor mount box using nylon blocks. I'm 6'4" tall and didn't want the obstruction on the floor to catch my heels. I also used several sizes of alum. chanel and angle to mount my matco brake cylinders entirely on the rudder pedal tubes.(no welding required.) They swing with the rudder pedals so there was no funny geometry to worry about. That did create one problem though in that I had to extend the bottom shelf 2 inches with an additional piece of 1/4 inch ply to give me the room between rudder pedals and firewall for cylinders. This gives me toe brakes that only come into play if I rotate my foot on the rudder bar. This keeps my floor clear and I can place my feet between the pedals all the way to the firewall if I want. I later realized I could have mounted the pedals on alum. chanel bolted to the 1/4 inch ply to move them back from the firewall and that should work just as well. (the bottom mount for the cylinders extend below the rudder pedals about 4 inches or so.). I built a 1.5 inch by 4 inch foot pad and a 3.5 inch brake pad that I actuate with my toes. These dimentions are approx. Your results may vary. I could probably make some pictures available if someone wanted to scan and post. Larry Flesner larryfle@midwest.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:56:27 -0500 (CDT) From: larry flesner Subject: KR: cheap strobe Need a cheap strobe? Radio Shack sells a 12 vdc strobe they advertise as 100,000 candle power. (Cat. no. 49-527 ) I modified the case but one could just as easily simply remove and use only the circuit board that the tube is mounted to. Simply cut a 3/4 inch hole in the skin, mount the circuit board on the inside with the strobe tube extending to the outside. Cut down the reflector to the size of the lens you intend to use and bond to skin on the outside. You can even use the plastic insert in the reflector if you wish as I did. I found a perfect little lens that you can get from vending machines. They contain the little collectable football helments and other such items. I purchased several of these at flea markets. Hey, you never know where you are going to find good KR parts !!!!! They advertise the current drain as 0.2 amps at 12vdc. They call it a security strobe light and it comes in a little red box. Can't find it? ask the clerk. Larry Flesner larryfle@midwest.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:29:19 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: apology At 10:20 AM 10/25/97 -0400, Alan Moat wrote: > >My apologies to Larry Flesher. Must have been a bad day on my part. > >Alan (open mouth insert keyboard) Moat Been there , done that! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:32:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Doug Fir II At 08:40 AM 10/25/97 PDT, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >Hey, Micheal- > >Can we make a bonfire at Chino with the broken fir from the tests? > >Oscar > I don't think the airport manager would like that very much! I think it would be nice to hang it up on display in the hanger after its broken! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:43:55 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: rudder pedals top mount larry flesner wrote: > > top mounted pedals-- > > Someone posted a question about top mounted pedals. I mounted > mine on the bottom 1/4inch ply of the top motor mount box > using nylon blocks. I'm 6'4" tall and didn't want the obstruction > on the floor to catch my heels. I also used several sizes of > alum. chanel and angle to mount my matco brake cylinders entirely > on the rudder pedal tubes.(no welding required.) They swing with > the rudder pedals so there was no funny geometry to worry about. > That did create one problem though in that I had to extend the > bottom shelf 2 inches with an additional piece of 1/4 inch ply to > give me the > room between rudder pedals and firewall for cylinders. This gives > me toe brakes that only come into play if I rotate my foot on the > rudder bar. This keeps my floor clear and I can place my feet between > the pedals all the way to the firewall if I want. I later > realized I could have mounted the pedals on alum. chanel bolted > to the 1/4 inch ply to move them back from the firewall and that > should work just as well. (the bottom mount for the cylinders > extend below the rudder pedals about 4 inches or so.). I built > a 1.5 inch by 4 inch foot pad and a 3.5 inch brake pad that I > actuate with my toes. These dimentions are approx. Your results > may vary. I could probably make some pictures available if > someone wanted to scan and post. > > Larry Flesner > larryfle@midwest.net - -------------------------- I would like to see pictures, or at least a drawing of what you did. Can some one scan and post the pictures????????? Please... Since I don't have a scanner or a place to post. Thanks Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. Northe end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------ ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #145 *****************************