From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 1997 5:21 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #163 krnet-l-digest Monday, November 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 163 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 20:18:36 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Plywood? John F. Esch wrote: > > Patrick > > Might want to check Wicks catalog. I think they might be alittle > cheaper. John, I'll do that, but, since I live 20 miles from AS&S-East, unless Wicks can save me more than enough to pay for shipping from the left coast, I'll probably pick up what I need in Griffin. Thanks, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 20:22:35 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings David Moore wrote: > > At 11:11 AM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>One long bolt through each pair of fittings, with a compression spacer > >>between the fittings is in fact stronger than the standard KR method of > >>using individual bolts > > Why couldn't you use the outboard spar cap as the spacer, just realign the > WAF's to overlap at the outer spar cap. Or would this weeken the spar? I know that 4130 plate is a bear to work with, but if you're going to butt the spars up to each other, why not eliminate that big center bolt by making a fitting that spans the entire distance? Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 20:38:13 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Soob cuts Oscar How are you doing with the SOOB? I've got an EA-82 waiting in the wings to start from the ground up. How about giving me all the info you can (carb, prop, radiators and placement, etc). Have you got photo's? Rich Junction City, KS Oscar Zuniga wrote: > >On the other hand, if you're grossing 1400 lbs flying behind a Soob > >rated for 100 hp but only making 60, then you might have a problem. > > > >------- > >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > >jscott.pilot@juno.com > > > > Jeff; > > I'm taking this very personally. I see that you, like Mike Mims, also > prefer to fly behind "certified". Me, I still think that "experimental" > means just that, and maybe I can make that Soob pull my (future) KR > along just fast enough to show you how the tail feathers finished out! > > Oscar > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 20:43:28 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Soob cuts Jeb What's the specs on your Soob? Does it have a redrive? I'm planning on a Soob in my KR2S. I've got an EA-82 block to work with. Rich Junction City, KS Jeb wrote: > My turbo-fuel-infected Soob will be great > eat my dust!! > John Bryhan > jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > Los Alamos, NM > > ---------- > > From: Micheal Mims > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: Re: KR: Soob cuts > > Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 9:00 AM > > > > At 06:45 AM 11/3/97 PST, you wrote: > > >I'm taking this very personally. I see that you, like Mike Mims, also > > >prefer to fly behind "certified". Me, I still think that "experimental" > > > >means just that, and maybe I can make that Soob pull my (future) KR > > >along just fast enough to show you how the tail feathers finished out! > > > > > >Oscar > > > > > > > > > > Think DD Turbo Subaru! You don't need a reduction!! Trust me! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 18:48:34 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR At 02:22 PM 11/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >I know I asked this before to you Mike but for the benefit of everyone >else. What about using D Fir in the boat area only? Of course I will >use Spruce in the spars, hor stab, elev, ver fin and rudder. > >John F. Esch >Salem, OR > I am no wood expert! The best thing you could do is read as much as you can about FIR, Hemlock, or what ever and try to select the best wood you can and then test the pieces. READ, READ, READ and then make the decision that is best for you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 18:54:08 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: paint At 08:43 AM 11/9/97 +0800, you wrote: I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of >the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of parts. Thought maybe aviation grade paints would be more flexible than auto paint which is fairly brittle. > >Jed Whtiford > I don't know of anyone who has built a homebuilt at our airport that used aviation paint! All the paint jobs are from Sherman Williams or Centauri auto paint. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 18:56:09 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings At 08:22 PM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >I know that 4130 plate is a bear to work with, but if you're going to >butt the spars up to each other, why not eliminate that big center bolt >by making a fitting that spans the entire distance? > >Patrick A little thing called dihedral? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 21:05:46 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: paint At 18:54 11/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >I don't know of anyone who has built a homebuilt at our airport that used >aviation paint! All the paint jobs are from Sherman Williams or Centauri >auto paint. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims I particularly enjoyed reading the account from the person who used heavy-duty floor paint! Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 22:49:21 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Single bolt with spacer on wing fittings Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:22 PM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I know that 4130 plate is a bear to work with, but if you're going to > >butt the spars up to each other, why not eliminate that big center bolt > >by making a fitting that spans the entire distance? > > > >Patrick > > A little thing called dihedral? :o) That just makes fabricating the fitting a little tougher! Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 23:05:18 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Chris-Craft wooo hoooo, thats cute, real cute. mike are you going to take this and from oscar tooo? oboy, i am craking up, i can't even spell, oh wow thats good. tandem2 could not resist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 23:47:05 -0500 (EST) From: ECLarsen81@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: paint In a message dated 97-11-08 21:18:47 EST, you write: << > >> Fellow netter's, >> >> At an airshow this summer in Kentucky I had a chance >> to talk to a rep. from TEAM. I was checking out the >> "Airbike" he had brought to the show and we got around >> to discussing paint. He made the statement that " auto >> paint has a UV barrier in it already so you don't have >> to add this layer if you use auto paint". I have not >> been able to confirm this from any other source. Anyone >> have any info on this or have any ideas on how to >> confirm. I am planning on using auto paint and if it's >> true I may be able to save weight by eliminating the >> coat applied just for UV protection. >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> Larry >> >Hi Larry, >Yes, it's true. Thats what I used on my KR. I was told it was in >the primer. Used Acrylic Urethane Enamel for the finish coat(3) and >Epoxy Primer, both are 2 part. Ask your automotive paint supplier >which has the UV barrier. If he can't tell you, go somewhere else but, >I found most are pretty knowledgeable. Automotive paints are a little >more reasonable in price than aviation paints and I find very little >difference. You mention "aviation" and right away the price doubles. >Everything around my engine is automotive, but all AN hardware, the only >thing is that you get a little more viberation in an aircraft. Safety >wire everything and adjust accordingly. Cables, etc. should not become >loose or wires frayed because of lack of tie wrap, this is just >sloppiness. Good luck! >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of parts. Thought maybe avaition grade paints would be more flexible than auto paint which is fairly brittle. Jed Whtiford >> What you need to do is add a flex agent, the same as you would for painting the plastic and composite parts of your auto. You can get all your spec sheets from your paint dealer, they contain all the safety precautions and recommended mixing ratios as well as the additional agent #'s that you will need. Your counter man should be familar with his product and can steer you to the right choices. I''ve been using the PPG paints with good success for years on ground effects and spoilers that I've built or added as well as Cycle fairings and Bags. As for the crazing of the gentlemans Imron, I believe there are agents available for that as well, but they won't help after the fact. Sanding and repainting may be your only route. I repainted a car(steel panels) several years back with Ditzler paints in North Dakota and used no flex agents. The temp spreds for summer/winter are so great that the hood and roof crazed (very small but noticable to me!) after 2 years. Sinnce then I've always made it a habit to add a small amount of flex agent when repainting. Ok, nuff rambling, Ed Larsen Mechanical Designer All the Fun, Half the Money ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 07:18:13 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: Re: KR: paint snip- snip -------------------------- >I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of >the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of parts. >Thought maybe avaition grade paints would be more flexible than auto paint >which is fairly brittle. > >Jed Whtiford > Jed, I expect to see less body movement and flexing on my KR then I would on a "fiberglass" body Corvette. That paint seems to hold up o.k. until it gets some age on it and at that point I'm not sure if it's the age or flexing that gets it to crack. Some Corvettes look real good even with considerable age on the paint. Anyway, I'm using autopaint. I already have the paint numbers. Fuselage bottom and wheel pants will be Silver Mist , wings and upper fuselage will be white. May go with some fine-line navy and orange trim. Orange and navy on white looks sharp if done correctly. At least it does on our high school's uniforms. Hey, ideas are everywhere! You just have to make sure you ALWAYS have your receptors turned on !!!!!!! By the way Jed, do you have any relatives or ancestors from west-central Illinois? I don't see the name Whitford often and we had some farm neighbors with that name when I was growing up. Hopefully today will be full of ups and downs. (I'm flying jumpers in a C-182 !!) I'm always telling the jumpers that jump pilots have more fun. We get to ride the airplane up AND down !!! Larry Flesner Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 07:16:10 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: Hummelbird for sale Netters, Saw this advertised on another website. Thought someone might be interested since many of us saw an excellent example of one that flew in to Perry for the Gathering. Ed Janssen >There is this older lady here who's husband was building a homebuilt all >aluminum plane, well he died about 2 or 3 years ago. this plane has been >setting in her basement all this time, I went there a couple of day's >ago to see it. I forget the name but I think it was called a hummel or >something like that, it has a bubble canopy that lift's from left to >right and look's like it is about 95% complete. I understand he was a >a&p or a&e, looks like he did a very good job at what he was doing on >putting this together. It has a tail wheel and a 2 cylinder morsler >engine that's brand new, the wing tip's are straight. she is asking >3,500 just to get rid of it, I thought about buying it but I have my >hand's full with my phantom and 550 beaver project. the plane is in >Meridian, Ms. if anyone want's more information I can tell you a little >more about it at ( 601) 4835315--- Richard Gray E-mail: patgray@cybertron.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 07:59:38 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: I'm not a test pilot, I just play one at work Hi all; I found the link as http://www.safetydata.com/a90-89a.htm John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the engine rails Hillsboro, Oregon > > Suggest you go into http://www.safetydata.com/a90-89a.html and download > this handbook it will give a very comprehensive flight test guide. It's > called "Amateur-Built Aircraft & Ultralight Flight-Testing Handbook". > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 08:15:53 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Cylinder Head Torque was Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals Note: in the automotive installation, you can only get to the LOWER studs from the valve cover area; the upper row of studs are typically covered by the "tin" John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the engine rails Hillsboro, Oregon > for a while, but the old VW manuals use to say to check and re-torqe the head > bolts (nuts) every 3,000 miles (evey 50 hrs at the 50 mph speed range). > I know from 1st hand expierence that if you do NOT do this then expect to be > rebuilding an engine; which was what I had to do (1 lesson learned the hard way). > later > keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 08:11:43 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR Hi John! Due to the increased strength of Doug Fir, I selected it for use in the longerons. Based upon the loading factors Don Reid has shown us, I accepted the additional weight penalty in favor for the increased strength. I weighed samples of spruce and Doug fir; the numbers came out within 2% of what the book shows; I'm hoping the strength follows as well. John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the engine rails Hillsboro, Oregon > > What about using D Fir in the boat area only? Of course I will > use Spruce in the spars, hor stab, elev, ver fin and rudder. > John F. Esch > Salem, OR > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 15:16:15 -0500 (EST) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: I'm not a test pilot, I just play one at work In a message dated 97-11-09 10:27:31 EST, Adrian writes: << SNIP What you learn at work is entirely different for an aircraft you build yourself. You have to be very discriminating in what you hear from work unless someone is versed in the homebuilt area. Good Luck! >> I'm afraid I'll have to disagree on this point, Adrian. The approach to experimental flight test is the same regardless of the type of aircraft. The procedures and depth of testing will vary, but you still have to evaluate powerplant reliability and performance, basic aircraft airworthiness and handling characteristics, and on through envelope expansion. We're not talking about getting an aircraft commercially certified here, but we ARE talking about safely demonstrating its airworthiness and performance to our own personal satisfaction. Those are the requirements we are working to, and that is the intent of the test plan I'm working on. By the way, my plan is "losely" based on AC 90-89A and a few other texts. I've reordered some of the procedures in the interest of safety and logic (I put logitudinal stability checks before approach to stall checks, for instance) and have added a few things here and there, based on experience and personal preference. I'm not so bold as to say my plan is THE way to do it, but I'm offering it as another source of info for folks developing their own test plans. If you have any documentation or data from the test period on your airplane, we could all benefit from your experience and knowing how you went about it. Thanks! Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO Test plan at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 15:24:39 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap seals i think i would check them about every 50hrs, i used to check mine about every 3000 mi. when i changed oil. tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 14:17:18 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR John How ya doing? Long time no hear. How is the project coming? Where did you get the D Fir from? Are you going to Air Fair this coming weekend 15-16Nov97? Lot of questions, I know. I will be there but haven't decided which day. I am still in the "clean out the garage mode" but getting closer. Got the go ahead from the wife but deciding where to get the wood from. Might have to make a trip up to see your KR to see what the first stages look like. John "thinking going D Fir" Esch Salem, OR John Bouyea wrote: > Hi John! > > Due to the increased strength of Doug Fir, I selected it for use in > the > longerons. Based upon the loading factors Don Reid has shown us, I > accepted the additional weight penalty in favor for the increased > strength. > I weighed samples of spruce and Doug fir; the numbers came out within > 2% > of what the book shows; I'm hoping the strength follows as well. > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - fitting the engine rails > Hillsboro, Oregon > > > > > What about using D Fir in the boat area only? Of course I will > > use Spruce in the spars, hor stab, elev, ver fin and rudder. > > John F. Esch > > Salem, OR > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 14:22:08 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR John Got to try the ICQ program coming your way. It is neat for real time chat so questions can be pondered upon or just plain chat about aircraft or what ever John F. Esch Salem, OR John Bouyea wrote: > Hi John! > > Due to the increased strength of Doug Fir, I selected it for use in > the > longerons. Based upon the loading factors Don Reid has shown us, I > accepted the additional weight penalty in favor for the increased > strength. > I weighed samples of spruce and Doug fir; the numbers came out within > 2% > of what the book shows; I'm hoping the strength follows as well. > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - fitting the engine rails > Hillsboro, Oregon > > > > > What about using D Fir in the boat area only? Of course I will > > use Spruce in the spars, hor stab, elev, ver fin and rudder. > > John F. Esch > > Salem, OR > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 17:30:27 -0500 (EST) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: paint >I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of >>the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of >parts. Thought maybe aviation grade paints would be more flexible than auto >paint which is fairly brittle. >> >>Jed Whtiford >I don't know of anyone who has built a homebuilt at our airport that used >aviation paint! All the paint jobs are from Sherman Williams or Centauri >auto paint. Speaking of lowering painting costs, did anyone see the Kitplanes article about the guy who painted his plane with a roller? This was a tube&fabric plane, so the material is different, but he also did the metal and glass parts the same way. Claimed he got very good results. I also just noticed that rollers come in foam now, as well as fuzzy stuff, so you could do finer work with them, just as with foam brushes (assuming the paint doesn't attack the foam, of course). Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:01:09 +0800 From: Jed Whitford Subject: Re: KR: paint At 07:18 AM 9/11/97 -0600, you wrote: > > > snip- snip > -------------------------- >>I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of >>the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of parts. >>Thought maybe avaition grade paints would be more flexible than auto paint >>which is fairly brittle. >> >>Jed Whtiford >> > > > Jed, > I expect to see less body movement and flexing on my KR then I would > on a "fiberglass" body Corvette. That paint seems to hold up > o.k. until it gets some age on it and at that point I'm not sure > if it's the age or flexing that gets it to crack. Some Corvettes > look real good even with considerable age on the paint. Anyway, I'm > using autopaint. I already have the paint numbers. Fuselage bottom > and wheel pants will be Silver Mist , wings and upper fuselage > will be white. May go with some fine-line navy and orange trim. > Orange and navy on white looks sharp if done correctly. At least > it does on our high school's uniforms. Hey, ideas are everywhere! > You just have to make sure you ALWAYS have your receptors > turned on !!!!!!! > > By the way Jed, do you have any relatives or ancestors from > west-central Illinois? I don't see the name Whitford often > and we had some farm neighbors with that name when I was > growing up. > > Hopefully today will be full of ups and downs. (I'm flying jumpers > in a C-182 !!) I'm always telling the jumpers that jump pilots > have more fun. We get to ride the airplane up AND down !!! > > > > Larry Flesner > > Larry Flesner > > Larry, Sounds like you have researched this well; however, your going to have to build a pretty strong airplane to stop wings flexing, they carry huge loads at times. I found a KR in australia yesterday and am tryying to find an address or phone number so I can talk to him. As for the ancestors part, as far as I know, I don't have any ancestors their; however, it is possible as some of my family did live in that area. Jed Whitford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:09:08 +0800 From: Jed Whitford Subject: Re: KR: paint At 05:30 PM 9/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >>I was considering the use of auto[aint but wasn't too sure. I was aware of >>>the UV fact but was wondering that it may crack due to the flexing of >>parts. Thought maybe aviation grade paints would be more flexible than auto >>paint which is fairly brittle. >>> >>>Jed Whtiford > >>I don't know of anyone who has built a homebuilt at our airport that used >>aviation paint! All the paint jobs are from Sherman Williams or Centauri >>auto paint. > >Speaking of lowering painting costs, did anyone see the Kitplanes article >about the guy who painted his plane with a roller? This was a tube&fabric >plane, so the material is different, but he also did the metal and glass >parts the same way. Claimed he got very good results. I also just noticed >that rollers come in foam now, as well as fuzzy stuff, so you could do finer >work with them, just as with foam brushes (assuming the paint doesn't attack >the foam, of course). > >Mike Taglieri > > Mike, Yes I saw it, but I'm a bit sceptical. It is fine to try and minimize cost but when it comes to painting my plane (when I start) I won't be using this method. I think that also the results were good on his plane because of the era that sort of design comes from ie this was probably a common practise then. Jed Whitford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 20:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Cylinder Head Torque was Re: KR: A "how to" question about wing gap s... YO You should do the bolts at least once or twice after you have the heads off,If you fly a VW for a while,it gets to be no problem.And you should adj. the valves every 20 hrs.No big thing takeng the rocker arms off. WildBill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 20:51:40 -0500 From: Robert Moreland Subject: KR: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. Dear KR netters: I am attempting to design and build a landing gear from a automotive leaf spring. I think it will be a low cost light weight alternative to the big $$ options out there. A piece of steel 5/16" x 2.5" x 21" is set near vertically and attached to the main spar at the caps. The axel consists of a 3/4" grade 8 bolt locked on to the leaf with a nut on both sides of the leaf. __________________________________________________________________________ |attach attach 3/4" axel bolt | |o o o o O | |_________________________________________________________________________| The distance from the leaf to the center of the tire is about 3" which creates a 3" lever arm that bends the leaf. If a camber angle is set between 7.5 to 15 degrees so that the attach is centered nearly over the center of the tire, I calculate this set up will easily carry a 4 G landing at gross weight and is several pounds lighter than the design given in the manual. Here is the problem: I can't figure out how to drill spring steel. I have turned several drill bits into scrap metal, even when running in oil. Barely a dent. Cutting it is easy. An abrasive wheel does a nice job. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Robert Moreland ranland@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 21:19:40 -0600 From: John Roffey Subject: Re: KR: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. Robert Moreland wrote: > > Dear KR netters: > > I am attempting to design and build a landing gear from a automotive > leaf spring. I think it will be a low cost light weight alternative to > the big $$ options out there. > > A piece of steel 5/16" x 2.5" x 21" is set near vertically and attached > to the main spar at the caps. The axel consists of a 3/4" grade 8 bolt > locked on to the leaf with a nut on both sides of the leaf. > __________________________________________________________________________ > |attach attach 3/4" axel > bolt | > |o o o o > O | > |_________________________________________________________________________| > > The distance from the leaf to the center of the tire is about 3" which > creates a 3" lever arm that bends the leaf. If a camber angle is set > between 7.5 to 15 degrees so that the attach is centered nearly over the > center of the tire, I calculate this set up will easily carry a 4 G > landing at gross weight and is several pounds lighter than the design > given in the manual. > > Here is the problem: I can't figure out how to drill spring steel. I > have turned several drill bits into scrap metal, even when running in > oil. Barely a dent. > > Cutting it is easy. An abrasive wheel does a nice job. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Robert Moreland > ranland@worldnet.att.net Hi Robert. You didn't mention what size hole you want to drill through your spring but I have drilled lots of spring and oven track steels with a common carbide tipped masonary drill bit. The secret to this is a very good center punch mark to stabilize the bit, very slow speed and very high pressure as well as lots of drill/tap fluid. Don't buy your bit at K-Mart, go to a machinery supply house and get the real thing. The tool rental places seem to cary good cement drills, try them. Expect to pay around $10 for a good 3/8 drill. The alternative is the titanium drills used in hard work production applications. These are for machine tooling and are very expensive. Good luck. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 20:20:22 From: Austin Clark Subject: KR: Elevator Trailing Edge Question I glassed one side of my elevator yesterday, flipped it over after it cured and sanded down the foam. The trailing edge is quite flimsy. I know the manual says to scrape out foam at the trailing edge on the second side and fill with flox just before glassing. This is supposed to stiffen it but I want to be sure the trailing edge is straight. Should I use a straight backing piece on each side of the trailing edge clamped in position until the glass / flox has cured? Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated. Austin Clark KR2S Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 21:20:39 -0600 From: "Perry & Ellen Williams" Subject: KR: Re: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Moreland To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Sunday, November 09, 1997 7:57 PM Subject: KR: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. >Dear KR netters: > >I am attempting to design and build a landing gear from a automotive >leaf spring. I think it will be a low cost light weight alternative to >the big $$ options out there. > >A piece of steel 5/16" x 2.5" x 21" is set near vertically and attached >to the main spar at the caps. The axel consists of a 3/4" grade 8 bolt >locked on to the leaf with a nut on both sides of the leaf. >__________________________________________________________________________ >|attach attach 3/4" axel >bolt | >|o o o o >O | >|_________________________________________________________________________| > >The distance from the leaf to the center of the tire is about 3" which >creates a 3" lever arm that bends the leaf. If a camber angle is set >between 7.5 to 15 degrees so that the attach is centered nearly over the >center of the tire, I calculate this set up will easily carry a 4 G >landing at gross weight and is several pounds lighter than the design >given in the manual. > >Here is the problem: I can't figure out how to drill spring steel. I >have turned several drill bits into scrap metal, even when running in >oil. Barely a dent. > >Cutting it is easy. An abrasive wheel does a nice job. > >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >Robert Moreland >ranland@worldnet.att.net > Hi Robert I m a machinist of 30 yrs experiance. I would try what is called a carbide spade drill. It will be a little hard to hold in a jacobs chuck (the chuck on a drill motor),you might try putting a short piece of metal rod smaller dia. behind it to keep it from backing up into the chuck. Run it about 350 to400 rpm,use high sulpher cutting oil(pipe threading oil from hardware store),slowly increase cutting pressure until it makes a chip,then contuine at that pressure. By the way this should be done in a drillpress. If you have trouble finding the drill ,e-mail me and I will send you one Good luck Best Regards Perry Williams perryw@hal-pc.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 19:43:01 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator Trailing Edge Question At 08:20 PM 11/9/97, you wrote: Should I use a straight >backing piece on each side of the trailing edge clamped in position until >the glass / flox has cured? Any comments and suggestions would be >appreciated. > >Austin Austin Two ideas, one normally we bondo a straight piece of wood to the cured side and then proceed, two you can use two pieces of wood covered with duct tape on each side after the layup. Clamp the two pieces of wood in place with light clamping pressure and let it cure. After cure remove the bonded board (or the clamped boards) and wha la, perfect trailing edges! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:41:49 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: progress Mike I understand you are not going to make your wings removeable. I am wondering how you plan on checking the attachment points during the anual inspection. I like to be able to check for weathering and cracks around the bolts going through the spar. Just something to think about. I just completed my new gap covers, I made them from soft aluminum and attached them via blind nuts. These are easy to remove and didn't cost much. The gap is large enough that I can easily inspect the attachment fittings and the end of the spars without removal of the wings. Something to think about maybe. Regards Parley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 20:14:28 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: progress At 07:41 PM 11/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >Mike >I understand you are not going to make your wings removeable. I am >wondering how you plan on checking the attachment points during the >anual inspection. Don't plan on it I guess. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 22:21:23 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. At 20:51 11/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >Dear KR netters: > >I am attempting to design and build a landing gear from a automotive >leaf spring.... >Here is the problem: I can't figure out how to drill spring steel. I >have turned several drill bits into scrap metal, even when running in >oil. Barely a dent. > >Cutting it is easy. An abrasive wheel does a nice job. > >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >Robert Moreland >ranland@worldnet.att.net > 1) High Speed steel 2) Carbide drill 3) brass tube drill with a modelling clay dam to hold the pool of oil with abrasive powder Option 3) will cut anything if you have the patience. Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 04:22:39 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Permanently sealing wing gaps >>I understand you are not going to make your wings removeable. I am >>wondering how you plan on checking the attachment points during the >>anual inspection. >Don't plan on it I guess. If I was going to permanently seal the wing gap, I think I'd drill small cotter pin holes in the bolts, then use a castellated nut and cotter int on each bolt to ensure integrity of the connection. A little peace of mine. Of course I have yet to hear of a wing bolt connection problem from all the guys who did seal up the gap. Have you? Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:13:23 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Permanently sealing wing gaps enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > >>I understand you are not going to make your wings removeable. I am > >>wondering how you plan on checking the attachment points during the > >>anual inspection. > > >Don't plan on it I guess. > > If I was going to permanently seal the wing gap, I think I'd drill small cotter > pin holes in the bolts, then use a castellated nut and cotter int on each bolt > to ensure integrity of the connection. A little peace of mine. > > Of course I have yet to hear of a wing bolt connection problem from all the guys > who did seal up the gap. Have you? My concern over not checking the wing attach bolts is that the wood might shrink dimensionally over time, not that the bolts might loosen. It wouldn't take much of a change for this to become a very dangerous situation. I think I would epoxy the fittings to the spars in addition to safetying the bolts if I decided to glass-over and forget them. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:22:38 +0200 From: "PIERRE & ANTON FOUCHE'" Subject: KR: Re: HAPI Engine Hi All Me Anton again. We've (my dad and I) have removed the engine and are about to strip the engine for rebuild but would appreciate if someone can help with the following questions . 1)We require information concerning the electronic ignition system. a)Need wiring diagram b)Is there a electronic switchbox required to switch the current through the ignition coils ? c)Does someone know who manufacters the ignition system and if possible there address ? 2)What type of starter is used on the engine ? 3)Where can spare alternator components be purchased ? (Great Plains??) 4)What type of oil should be used with the engine ? 5)What type of gas is the engine designed to run on ,avgas or autogas ? 6)Where can one get a copy of HAPI engine manual from ? I hope one of you netters can help us out ,as you can see we have no documentation with this engine. Kind regards Anton Fouche' P-I-F@pixie.co.za South Africa +27 11 4777448 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:18:24 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Landing gear from automotive leaf spring steel. Robert Moreland wrote: > > Here is the problem: I can't figure out how to drill spring steel. I > have turned several drill bits into scrap metal, even when running in > oil. Barely a dent. > Robert Moreland > ranland@worldnet.att.net I had the same problem when drilling my tailwheel spring. You can use Titanium Nitride drills (expensive) if you are willing to waste several. One of my reference books says that in order to drill spring steel, you have to heat treat a drill . You heat the high speed steel drill tip to cherry red, and then quench in mercury. This is dangerous due to the hazards of mercury, not to mention it is hard to come by. I ended up taking it to work and got a machinist to drill it for me on a huge drill press. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #163 *****************************