From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 1997 2:08 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #174 krnet-l-digest Saturday, November 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:15:07 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs- doomsday Mike T. wrote: some might go up the wire to the other coil, causing a field in the >secondary windings of that coil and inducing a voltage in the primary >winding just about the same time that the second ignition was also >inducing a field there. > Mike; My feeling is that electrons won't just head up the 'wrong' wire unless something is drawing them there... like a GROUND or an electrical black hole like a capacitor that they can charge up. Assuming that the other circuit hasn't yet closed, them little electrons are looking at an OPEN CIRCUIT... no attraction. Ergo, no 'backflow'. Eh? Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:26:17 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Tiedown rings Hello Nettees- I seem to remember that somebody's KR (Bobby Muse's?) has tiedown rings quite visible under the wings. Anybody have a really cool KROnline "Builder's Tip" on some lightweight, sturdy, retract tiedown rings? Or, Bobby- what did you use on yours? I've had several ideas, including some marine hardware (heavy), but a retract type would sure be cool. Thoughts appreciated. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:51:07 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Tiedown rings Oscar Zuniga wrote: > I seem to remember that somebody's KR (Bobby Muse's?) has tiedown rings > quite visible under the wings. Anybody have a really cool KROnline > "Builder's Tip" on some lightweight, sturdy, retract tiedown rings? > but a retract type would sure be cool. > Thoughts appreciated. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon I had thought of spring loaded retracts, but deceided that the extra work wasn't worth the trouble. I will be using a long, removeable eye-bolt. The structure, such as it is, is shown on my web page. It is just a piece of 5/16" X 0.058 tubing with flanges welded on, bolted to the main spar out near the tips. The 3/16" eye bolt will fit through the tubing, with padded bearing surfaces on top and bottom and a wing nut to hold it all together. The only drag producing aspect of the hold downs will be a 3/16" hole in the top and bottom wing surface. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:55:34 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Warp Drive propellers I think it was Sport Aviation or Kitplane, had a small article saying NSI is also experiencing problems with their adjustable hub with WARP drive blades. Dave Moore At 07:30 AM 11/20/97 -0600, you wrote: >Before anyone gets scared off from using Warp Drive props in direct >drive applications they should be aware that Warp Drive recommends their >prop blades be modified in profile for direct drive higher speed >applications. There is a prop specialist they recommend in Houston and >the process is relatively inexpensive. The result is a prop that is >more efficient and reliable. I don't want to see a manufacturer get >bashed when they actually recommend modifications for the specific >application. The warp drive props are a good product and if used >properly have a reliable record. > >Bob Lasecki >Chicago - yes, I ordered one. > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:58:18 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems At 12:56 AM 11/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >I think I was the one who originally raised this question, and some of the >responses made me wonder about the possibility of disruption of one ignition >from induced voltage caused by the other one: > >Here's my theory:>> My plan was NOT to run the ignitions at the same time, actually the MSD coil switcher is not designed to run two systems at the same time but to allow you to choose between two systems,... which is just fine. There is no need to run both systems simultaneously. ____________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:25:00 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Auto Versus Av DOH! Last time I did that, I rode in the Firebird, and all it cost me was $6.50. I guess I could have split Norm's gas fee. -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 02:22 PM 11/17/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I have to ask what a $100 hamburger is? A passenger? Or just what it > >costs to taxi up to the Mcdonald's drive thru. > > > > -- Ross > > Its a term used to describe the act of flying to an outlying airport for the > sole purpose of eating lunch or breakfast. > ____________________________ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:44:56 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs Someone seems to be lost here, you have two electronic ignitions on a engine, with two separate modules connected to a switch. They are not on line at the same time, in fact unless you have a failure of one of the modules you won't ever have the second module on line. Now two magneto fires at the same time because they are designed that if one failed or didn't fire the other would pick up the slack. How many time have you heard a pilot say, "I found I had a bad mag during engine run up on the ground". It didn't fail in the air? Electronic Ignition is designed to work individually, it doesn't have to fire at the same time to produce a hot enough spark. If you install elect. ing. don't try to get them to fire at the same time, it's a headache and unnecessary. The second module is just in case the first one fails. In aviation it seems we are trying to think modern with a two magneto attitude. At 06:15 AM 11/21/97 PST, you wrote: > >Mike T. wrote: > > >>some might go up the wire to the other coil, causing a field in the >>secondary windings of that coil and inducing a voltage in the primary >>winding just about the same time that the second ignition was also >>inducing a field there. >> > >Mike; > >My feeling is that electrons won't just head up the 'wrong' wire unless >something is drawing them there... like a GROUND or an electrical black >hole like a capacitor that they can charge up. Assuming that the other >circuit hasn't yet closed, them little electrons are looking at an OPEN >CIRCUIT... no attraction. Ergo, no 'backflow'. Eh? > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:48:57 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs At 10:44 AM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Someone seems to be lost here, you have two electronic ignitions on a >engine, with two separate modules connected to a switch. >In aviation it seems we are trying to think modern with a two magneto >attitude. > THANK YOU!!!!! ____________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:44:05 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Hot tub party It's a big spa... seats 5...7 if you sit on the edge. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:27:36 -0800 > >From: "John F. Esch" > >To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Subject: Re: KR: Video > >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > > >I will be there Ross > > > >John F. Esch > >Salem, OR > > > >Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > >> Everyone is invited to a big spa party after I get the engine > started! > > > > I'd go, too, except it looks like your spa is getting a bit crowded for > too many to get in. I'm not that type of guy- sorry! But, hey- I'll do > the chips 'n' salsa, and love to hear your engine run! > > Oscar > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:51:57 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: NLF fund hits $1030! Mark, This sounds like a Terrific Kitplanes article in the making! Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Mark Langford wrote: > > > Troy Petteway > > Ross Youngblood > > Oscar Zuniga > > John Esch > > Troy Johnson > > Randy Stein > > Richard Mole > > Rex Ellington > > Ron Lee > > Mark Lougheed > > Robert Covington > > Mark Langford > > Steve Eberhart > > > > So far we have $1030 in the kitty. I'm open to suggestions for the > > monument. So far Clark foam has been suggested. All options will be > > considered... > > > Mark, > > We might consider engraving the names on to the carbon fiber airfoil > model used for the wind tunnel tests and see if we can get it put into > the EAA museum. I don't know but I think this is a first for > experimental aviation, a group of EAA members contracting the wind tunnel > testing of a super performance airfoil for the benefit of the first > composite experimental airplane as well as all of General Aviation. > > Just a thought. > > Steve (just doing the legg work) Eberhart > newtech@newtech.com - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:14:41 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Hot tub party Ross, You had better be careful, If Oscar found out the hot tub was built out of Doug fir he'd want to take it to the tarmac at Chino airport and set it on fire. He seems to have a thing about bone fires and Doug fir. Dave Moore At 10:44 AM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >It's a big spa... seats 5...7 if you sit on the edge. > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> >> >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:27:36 -0800 >> >From: "John F. Esch" >> >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> >Subject: Re: KR: Video >> >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> > >> >I will be there Ross >> > >> >John F. Esch >> >Salem, OR >> > >> >Ross Youngblood wrote: >> > >> >> Everyone is invited to a big spa party after I get the engine >> started! >> > >> >> I'd go, too, except it looks like your spa is getting a bit crowded for >> too many to get in. I'm not that type of guy- sorry! But, hey- I'll do >> the chips 'n' salsa, and love to hear your engine run! >> >> Oscar >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- > > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE >PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x >1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) > Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:09:20 -0500 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems Micheal Mims wrote: > > My plan was NOT to run the ignitions at the same time, actually the MSD coil > switcher is not designed to run two systems at the same time but to allow > you to choose between two systems,... which is just fine. There is no need > to run both systems simultaneously. > ____________________________ > > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims No need to run 2 ignitions simultaneously?? How about this scenario: you have just taken off, climb a few hundred feet over a forest and bang, your ignition craps out. In your panic, do you really have presence of mind or time enough to evaluate the problem, figure the solution, switch ignitions, and restart? Wouldn't it be better to have this done automatically somehow? Then you would just notice an ignition has gone and you would nicely return to the runway. Bob Smith , reducing the pilot's workload ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: NLF checks starting to roll in I received the first check today for the NLF(1)0115 wind tunnel test fund. Ken Cornelius has the honor of being the first contributor to the fund, thanks Ken. Richard Mole, Great Britton, is second. Took a slightly different payment scheme for Richard. My Flyer subscription, a great UK publication, is up for renewal and Richard renewed my subscription for me so I am putting the money in for his contribution. NLF fund contributors (checks received) Ken Cornelius Richard Mole As I receive checks I will post the list of contributors so you will know that your checks have been received. Progress on the wind tunnel model: I don't get the master templates from Dr. Selig until we officially contract the test, i.e. send him the money. So, I have plotted the airfoil to the 18" chord required using Plotfoil and the airfoil coordinates in the University of Illinois airfoil database. I am making the hot wire templates for the section cores this weekend. This model gets four ribs made up from 1/4" divinicell foam with a single layer BID on each side. THe foam cores are cut into three sections and are assembled on the tubular spars with the ribs inserted between each section. The skin is a multiple layer carbon fiber BID layup that will result in about a 1/16" carbon fiber skin. This assembly is made undersize by about a 1/32". A layer of dry micro and cab-o-sil is used to skin the model using the monofilament fish line method of applying the micro. The assembly is then profiled to the final form less a fudge factor for the final surface finish that will be K&B Superpoxy. The superpoxy finish will be surface finished to meet the required tolerances. If all goes well we should have a model that meets the specifications. I will be taking the model to the dry micro stage and will have to wait for the final templates before the profiling of the micro can be done. Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:20:41 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems brian whatcott wrote: > > At 00:56 11/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > >... Could you get diodes > >that could survive in the voltage of the secondary circuits to allow only > >one-way flow on the plug wires? ... > >Mike Taglieri > > > > > Any Rodeo Schlock store has 1000v peak inverse diodes, 10,000v diodes are > not too hard to get. But you might think that 50000v is a reasonable target > to aim for, so then you are into mutliples which need a little space. > An alternative method depends on electrode shape. > A needle will arc at much lower voltage than a smooth sphere, so 2 needles > pointing at a metal ball can be arranged to stop reverse pulses into the > opposite needle. > But then you are thinking about platinum wire for the needles and a > durable ball, all nicely encapsulated... > > Regards > > brian whatcott > Altus OK I have SEEN this! Get the movie "This Island Earth" A 50's sci fi movie. I forgot the name of it. The thing fit in an envelope. Too bad the alien sience that created this technology was wiped out at the end of the movie by meteors. The fly creature was not involved. - -- Ross Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:17:32 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: I think I was the one who originally raised this question, and some of the > responses made me wonder about the possibility of disruption of one ignition > from induced voltage caused by the other one: > > Here's my theory: I assume it would never be possible for two separate > ignitions to fire at EXACTLY the same time. Therefore one spark gets to the > plug before the other. It might not all jump the gap to ground but instead > some might go up the wire to the other coil, causing a field in the secondary > windings of that coil and inducing a voltage in the primary winding just > about the same time that the second ignition was also inducing a field there. > This could lead to more voltage than the coilmaker or the modulemaker > intended and disrupt or blow the module of the second ignition. > This is a good point. I think the effect might be to reduce the other coils primary voltage, but I don't know for sure. The impluse might be too short for this to be a problem. > Does anyone know a lot about electronics here?? NO. > For all I know, it isn't even possible for the juice to go down one > wire and back up the other one. It's wire so sure, the current can flow either way. Depends on the timing of the pulse, the amount of energy in the pulse, the propagation delay of the cables etc. But it would be possible for the energy from one coil to reach another, if they are electricly connected all the time. If points are in the loop, then timing is everything. > Could you get diodes that could survive in the voltage of the > secondary circuits to allow only one-way flow on the plug wires? I thought about this, I think we are looking for a semiconductor with a 50-100Kv reverse breakdown voltage. Or the equivilent. > Until I get some input from someone who knows this stuff, Don't look at me, I write software for a living. > I'm cool to the idea. > Aside from such speculative problems, a dual ignition/one set of plugs system > sounds great, since plugs hardly ever fail and if you lost one, it would > still let you get down with a fair amount of power. I think I'd do it with > points, two sets in one distributor housing, firing two coils. As someone > explained the last time this thread came around, it's practical to mount two > sets of points in the Bosch distributor 90 degrees apart (same result as 180 > degrees apart but much easier). You'd also need a backup source of power if > the alternator died, and the ability to cut either ignition out of the > circuit if it shorted out. > > Mike Taglieri - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:31:24 -0800 From: Robert Maniss Subject: KR: Apology and correction Netters - Sorry about the "virus alert" I forwarded the other day. I'm not very literate in computers so I still tend to be nervous about them. Goodness knows, I create enough problems for myself in using mine, so I panic easily. Hopefully I didn't cause any problems for anyone else. Correction - My "source" at the local convention and visitors bureau had told me it was the Georgetown fly-in moving to Abilene. Wrong! Now they say it is the Southwest Regional EAA Fly-in which has been at Kerrville, TX. No dates on when the next one scheduled. Still hope many of you will be able to show people in this area some beautiful KR's. Since I can't seem to get things straight, I promise just to ask questions in the future! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:38:44 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems At 04:09 PM 11/21/97 -0500, you wrote: <<>> NO! <<>> Jesus Christ man I can put you in a situation that will guarantee your death every time you go flying. Do what you want and I will do the same! This is that dual magneto mentality coming through again! Picture this, Your merging on to the I5 and look in your rear view to see a tractor trailer coming up but if you punch it you can make it, you punch it and start to merge and your ignition craps out, you get run over and die! ____________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine CA http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:20:04 -0500 From: Robert Moreland Subject: Re: KR: Tiedown rings I had considered tie down rings. here is my idea on the subject: When you attach the wing, slip a small marine type ring on to the botton wing attach fitting. If you want it to retract, tye the ring to the upper wing attach fitting with a small bungee. KISS Robert Moreland ranland@worldnet.att.net Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Hello Nettees- > > I seem to remember that somebody's KR (Bobby Muse's?) has tiedown rings > quite visible under the wings. Anybody have a really cool KROnline > "Builder's Tip" on some lightweight, sturdy, retract tiedown rings? Or, > Bobby- what did you use on yours? I've had several ideas, including > some marine hardware (heavy), but a retract type would sure be cool. > Thoughts appreciated. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:10:36 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems At 13:38 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Picture this, Your merging on to the I5 and look in your rear view to see a >tractor trailer coming up but if you punch it you can make it, you punch it >and start to merge and your ignition craps out, you get run over and die! >Micheal Mims No,no, no: just when death seemed inevitable, along comes a highway patrol helicopter trailing a giant electromagnet - and UP you go... Brian ( Getting onto Rossy's SF theme ) brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:33:12 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs ya oscar, the flush button, how did this head thing get started about you , i don't remember, oh , thats right the other buttom, or was that button, darn if i know. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:38:15 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Doug FIR weight larry, who is sawdust breath? hmmmmm, don't sound to kosher, marvin, is that you? your breath didn't smell like sawdust to me or maybe i am just so use to sawdust smells i could not tell, well next time i am down to see ya, i'll find out. tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:39:09 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: KR: Registering Experimental Acft????? Can anyone tell me how to register a home built , so that I can become the manufacture and the previous owner is removed from that position??? Thanks, Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:56:15 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Apology and correction At 15:31 11/21/97 -0800, Bob Maniss wrote: >Netters - Sorry about the "virus alert" I forwarded the other day. I'm >not very literate in computers so I still tend to be nervous about them. That's strange - I start ranting and raving about pseudo virus warnings on this most civilized builders' list ( *I* should apologize for this...) and someone ELSE starts apologizing. Guess I'm easily confused today. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:07:12 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs Micheal Mims wrote: > >In aviation it seems we are trying to think modern with a two magneto > >attitude. > > > > THANK YOU!!!!! No one has mentioned what may be the best of both worlds, at least if you have two plugs, and that is to use a magneto for one and electronic for the other. Mags are old tech, but they need no external power. Electronic is great, hot spark, adjustable timing, etc, but it still needs external power. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:02:09 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR:VW - ENGINES ya, thats all true, will be checking into Pauter's on there heads to see what the costs are. ya, that cam is wild and i didn't mean for anyone to use that, but to read about how to put a type 4 back together and to use things that is better suited for our needs, and also to show what can be done in our world. tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:13:14 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Registering Experimental Acft????? Lloyd Perkins,Jr. wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to register a home built , so that I can become > the manufacture and the previous owner is removed from that position??? > Thanks, > Lloyd Others may have the definitive answer, but I think that if the A/C is already built, you can't. The manufacture is the one that completed the A/C in the first place. A second person can't get a repairman's certificate for a plane, only the original builder. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: TANDEM2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Hot tub party nothing wrong with doug fir, but bon fires, i wonder about, if someone would make a doug fir toilet seat then oscar will be there, but watch out if he pulls out a match and gas, hmmmm, that sounds bad,gas, well anyways watch out. tandem2 type 4 will get you ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:51:11 -0500 (EST) From: LDeckert@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: canopy hinges In a message dated 97-11-21 07:00:29 EST, you write: << In the Wicks catalog I see some canopy hinges for the dragonfly that sell for $2.50 each that look like they might work well for a front hinged KR. Does anyone know anything about them such as if they are strong enough or big enough? Bob Smith >> I got some of those, they are REAL flimsy. I ended up going to a hardware store and found some European cabinet hinges (heavy duty) that work the same. I have added an additional bulkhead (removable header tank) and attached the hinges there. The canopy is a little "wiggly" and I may have to break down and build some on my own after all. Larry Deckert Sandy, Ut 801-561-3573 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:10:37 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: canopy hinges Bob Smith wrote: > In the Wicks catalog I see some canopy hinges for the dragonfly that > sell for $2.50 each that look like they might work well for a front > hinged KR. Does anyone know anything about them such as if they are > strong enough or big enough? Bob, I threw a few pictures out there of my canopy hinges. They're under "Canopy Frame" on my web page, or go to http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html . They're at the bottom, so you have to suffer through the loading of 14 other pictures first, but there's a little explanation with each picture. I've said that if I had it to do over again, I'd use the nylon roller in the aluminum channel technique that was on the KR2SDfly that we saw at Perry's Area 51, but I'd also go for the way the Ban-Bi is done. See this month's Sport Aviation cover. Mike Mims showed it to me a couple of years ago. Basically two vertical hinges which attach parallel to the longerons from the bottom of the canopy frame and hinged at the forward deck. This has got to be very strong if done right. Looking at that "Canopy Frame" story of mine I realized that I never really finished it. I'll try to review all of my stuff and add details where needed... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: smithr > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: canopy hinges > Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 2:50 PM > > In the Wicks catalog I see some canopy hinges for the dragonfly that > sell for $2.50 each that look like they might work well for a front > hinged KR. Does anyone know anything about them such as if they are > strong enough or big enough? > > Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:30:00 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: rudder bar dimensions? RudderHeads, I just spent the last hour cutting out the 5/8" x .049" 4130 tubing for my rudder bars. I couldn't help but remember Monte's Newsletter article detailing how he discovered that the geometry of the stock RR pedal setup resulted in his applying the brakes inadvertantly whenever the rudder pedals were used. Using an old shoe, I figured that the 7" high dimension should be 8.5" or 9.0" for my size 10.5 feet. Otherwise, I'd have the same problem. I suppose this situation arose from the fact that the original KR2's didn't have toe brakes, and even if they did, I'm sure Ken's feet weren't real big. Anybody else come to this same conclusion and lengthen theirs, by any chance? By the way, I've got $15 in the steel, and a few in nylon. No way can these take more than two hours and $20 to make. I used a carborundum "metal cutting" blade in my compound miter saw to make the 45 degree cuts. It sailed right thru it. Even paying a welder $25 would be well worth it. And they fit ME! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:55:06 -0600 From: "Rick Hanson" Subject: KR: KR2 for sale 32 - Airplanes: KR-2 2 seater; Fremont, California Price: $1000 Year: not completed Description: Kit plane built by the plans, lots of hardware, set up for retractable gear. have engine mount, wheels and brakes fuselage built. I dont have room to build this plane. I will by one already complete in the future. Trades considered Contact: Roger DiRuscio, 41051 mission blvd fremont,ca, Fremont, CA, 94539 Phone: 510-797-4000 eves 510-745-9999 Fax: none Email: solarrog@pacbell.net Date posted: 11/16/97 Ad ID: aircraft-879640213-5799 - ---------- > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 07:21:30 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: KR: fuses Fellow netters, Can anyone tell me the difference between the ACG fuse and the 3AG fuse. Someone asked me yesterday and now I'm curious...... Thanks. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:06:44 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: fuses At 07:21 11/22/97 -0600, you wrote: > Can anyone tell me the difference between the ACG fuse and > the 3AG fuse. Someone asked me yesterday and now I'm > curious...... > Larry Flesner > Not much. Here are some sample specs: Littelfuse 3AG slo blo - inductive loads - motors will hold 110% for 4 hrs+ 135% for 1 hr 200% for 5 sec Bussman AGC fast acting - instruments + electronics 110% indefinite 135% 1 hr or less I picked these details out of the Newark cat. Dunno how far I'd trust this data... Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:22:33 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: rudder bar dimensions? Mark Langford wrote: > Using an old shoe, I figured that the 7" high dimension should > be 8.5" or 9.0" for my size 10.5 feet. Otherwise, I'd have the same > problem. > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford For my size 15, I used 9" up from the floor. I have to lift my heal slightly to apply the brakes. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:40:18 -0500 (EST) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tiedown rings In a message dated 97-11-22 02:10:46 EST, you write: << Oscar Zuniga wrote: I seem to remember that somebody's KR (Bobby Muse's?) has tiedown rings quite visible under the wings. Anybody have a really cool KROnline "Builder's Tip" on some lightweight, sturdy, retract tiedown rings? but a retract type would sure be cool. Thoughts appreciated. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon >> Oscar, I made mine removeable by using an eyebolt with an 1 1/4" shank length and a washer brazed on the shank at the eye end. Then I treaded on a tee nut and a cap nut, tack welded them together so the threads would stay lined up, removed that assembly and brazed it together. The nut assembly was then mounted inside the lower spar cap out near the end of the cap and epoxied in place. The cap/acorn nut was to keep the elements out of the spar insides. I also have a nylon washer on it to keep the metal washer from marring anything.The eye is 1" with a 3/8" size shank which I think is probably overkill. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:42:57 -0500 (EST) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Dual ignition & one set of plugs -- possible problems In a message dated 97-11-22 02:21:22 EST, you write: << No need to run 2 ignitions simultaneously?? How about this scenario: you have just taken off, climb a few hundred feet over a forest and bang, your ignition craps out. In your panic, do you really have presence of mind or time enough to evaluate the problem, figure the solution, switch ignitions, and restart? Wouldn't it be better to have this done automatically somehow? Then you would just notice an ignition has gone and you would nicely return to the runway. >> Why could you just have them both on for takeoff then switch on off after you've leveled off... sort of like using an auxillary fuel boost pump. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:05:14 -0500 (EST) From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Fwd: UL: Low Level Stalls In a message dated 97-11-22 09:28:45 EST, you write: << > Check out their website and contact them at www.liftreserve.com >> > > I found the above on an ultralight flying list... seems interesting. > > Jim Hayward There was a few articles in Kitplanes and Sport Aviation about 10 years ago that showed how to make a device similar to this using an old airspeed indicator. Its to bad GA airplanes don't all have AOA (or lift reserve) indicators. They are great for knowing exactly what's going on! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Anyone have an idea about which issues they might have been in? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:38:24 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: Aileron Modification to work with flaps - ------------------------------ I just finished reading the book Speed With Economy by Kent Paser. Very good book. In his book he did some modifications on his mustang to his flaps to increase the angle to 60 degrees and he also modified his AILERONS to droop down and act as wing lifting devises along with his flaps. With both of these modifications he decreased his stall speed by 4 mph. The modification he did to his ailerons was to put a large thumb wheel on the push-pull tubes. By turning the thumb wheel he could increase or decrease the length of the push-pull tubes, and that would make both ailerons droop down at the same time. As the ailerons drooped, they would still work as ailerons and he still maintained control. By drooping the ailerions he made them work like flaps. In effect he increased his flap area. This modification alone decreased his stall speed by 2 mph. This aileron modification looked very easy to do. I have never heard anyone talk about doing this to a KR. It seems that it may be a good thing to do since the flaps on the KR are so small. Has anyone had any experience with this or has anyone done it to a KR??? Any thoughts?? Just wondering. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:08:10 -0500 (EST) From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Emergency Procedures Sermon (was dual ignition... -- possible problems) In a message dated 97-11-22 02:21:22 EST, you write: ><< No need to run 2 ignitions simultaneously?? How about this scenario: you > have just taken off, climb a few hundred feet over a forest and bang, > your ignition craps out. In your panic, do you really have presence of > mind or time enough to evaluate the problem, figure the solution, switch >ignitions, and restart? Wouldn't it be better to have this done > automatically somehow? Then you would just notice an ignition has gone > and you would nicely return to the runway. > > Bob Smith , reducing the pilot's workload >> Safety Sermon coming, stop reading now if you're not interested. Bob is right, it would be easier if it were automatic, but his statement about "in your panic" caught my attention. Takeoff and landing are the two most critical phases of flight, and we must be ready to deal immediately with any emergencies that can occur during these phases. In the Air Force we have "BOLDFACE" or immediate action procedures in our checklists that we are required to have memorized (yes, we ARE tested on them!) for this very reason. This probably goes against the teachings of your flight instructor, who hopefully pounded checklist usage into your head while you were/are a student, but there are some situations where you just have to know what to do, and you have to know RIGHT NOW. For instance, in the scenario Bob presented, part of the "Engine Failure on Takeoff" checklist boldface for an aircraft with this ignition setup should be "IGNITION SYSTEM - SWITCH TO SECONDARY" or something along those lines. Even if the primary hadn't failed and caused the engine to quit, you've covered that contingency and you reduce the amount of analysis you have to do. By the way, you DID check both ignitions on your run-up, right? The point is, develop the emergency checklists that apply to your particular airplane configuration, practice them in the cockpit until you know them cold, and then practice them on a regular basis. It takes some extra effort, but it will keep a bad situation from getting out of hand in an emergency. I verbally review the "abort" and "engine failure on takeoff" immediate action procedures at the end of the runway right before brake release on every flight. Expect it to happen, and when it does you'll be ready to deal with it without panic. I've had my share of emergencies, including an engine fire at night in the weather, and the only time I've been scared is in the bar after landing, thinking about what might have happened had we not been prepared to deal with the emergency. Being prepared really does work! End of sermon. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO "Maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation, and take the appropriate action". ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #174 *****************************