From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, November 27, 1997 2:17 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #179 krnet-l-digest Thursday, November 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 179 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:47:18 -0500 (EST) From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Registering Experimental Acft????? >I think it's a disgrace that aircraft could be destroyed because of >predatory American law practise. > Here is the convoluted path through the jungle. As one of the practitioners of our predatory American law practice, I think that the fears of builders that result in the breaking up of aircraft are exaggerated and even border on the hysterical. I have never heard of a lawsuit for liability in an accident against a homebuilder who sold his plane to someone else, although I often see ads for planes with very few hours on them that are probably being sold because something is wrong. (Lawsuits sometimes come along for fraud or misrepresentation against someone for selling a project that turned out to be not as advertised, but that is not accident-related). In particular, has anyone heard any hint that the family of John Denver plans to bring a lawsuit against the seller, Rutan, or anyone else? They'd certainly have a case if anybody did, and the money to pursue it, but If they had such thoughts, they probably gave them up after their lawyers told them about the chance of winning. I suppose it is theoretically possible that someone will bring such a lawsuit after a crash someday, but it's also possible (and probably more likely) that you'll be killed some day by a duck in flight. I don't lie awake at night worrying about either one of these. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 97 7:23:24 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: RE: KR: missing something Richard Don't feel alone, these are not silly questions. Just image this. In South Africa we dont even get the product names that are available in the USA. So we are forced to find alternative materials. Try finding the alternative for something with nothing. Steve in South Africa. - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: "Kr-Net" Cc: Subject: KR: missing something Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 9:19AM Well my company has unknowingly paid me to read the plans from cover to cover and I seem to be missing a couple of things. I dont recall seeing a parts list that includes specifications. I just have the general descriptions along with how much it costs to buy it from RR. Specifically I'm interested in things like what weight BID to use, and I'd also like to have the Specs on the foam. Did I miss something? I thought I'd bother you all with these silly questions before I call RR. Who actually works (at their paying jobs) the day before thanksgiving? (especially when the plans arrived yesterday) Richard Parker KR2S #861 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:17:23 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: website update You can find a few new pictures on the home page, the tail page and the last fuselage page. Enjoy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:02:17 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Experimental A/C Liability MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > . . . the fears of builders . . . are > exaggerated and even border on the hysterical. I have never heard of a > lawsuit for liability in an accident against a homebuilder who sold his plane > to someone else, . . . > . . . . In particular, has anyone heard any hint that the family > of John Denver plans to bring a lawsuit against the seller, Rutan, or anyone > else? > Mike Taglieri The fears of the builders may be hysterical, but they are all too real. And yes, I would not be surprised to see Burt Rutan sued for the John Denver crash. Burt no longer markets homebuilt designs because he was sued approximately 12 times by homebuilders, the estate of dead builders and the estate of dead passengers. He did not settle any case out of court, but went to trial and won on technical merits. In each case, the fault was due to an error of the builder or the pilot, not the design. This did not prevent Burt from being sued, costing him time and money for his defense. After that, he gave up marketing plans and designs. This information is based on what was written in the Rutan newletters, so I have no reason to doubt it. The EAA has also stated that no builder has been successfully sued for accidents that occur after a homebuilt has been sold. I have no reason to doubt this, but that doesn't mean that it will always be that way. When and if I sell my completed KR, it will be in an unairworthy condition, such as the rudder cables disconnected. The sales agreement will clearly state that the "object" in question is not airworthy, is not intended to be airworthy, and if the purchaser makes it airworthy, the consequences of that action will be accident and death. Yes, I am paranoid about liabilty. There are too many lawyers chasing too few real cases. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:20:38 -0800 From: Alessandro Pecorara Subject: Re: KR: missing something BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-26 11:33:05 EST, Richard wrote: > > << I dont recall seeing a parts list that includes specifications. > I thought I'd bother you all with these silly questions before I call RR. > > Richard: > The info you seek comes from KRNet and the > archives. RR will likely refer you to one of the builders for any questions > you have. So I suggest you cut out the middlewoman and go straight to the KR > building source: KRNet. Lurk here for a while and we'll all help fill in the > blanks. Heck, we had some of the same questions! > > Have a good Thanksgiving and stay tuned. > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA I spent a lot of time with other silly questions: today I'm worried about engine mount' where can I find one such thing (RR list for 'S hasn't it)? My flying machine will be (I do hope) a KR2S with nosewheel and a VW conversion (or, maybe, a Limbach 2000 engine). By the way I've been told: before thinking of engine mount, complete your airframe, paint it, add all equipments (or ballast, in front of the firewall); then establish weights (empty and loaded etc.) If the CG range is not OK you can change the engine mount lenght, and make one suited to your own machine. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. Ciao... ... (@ @) - -----oOO-(_)-OOo------- alessandro pecorara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:56:06 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: Re: KR: Registering Experimental Acft????? - -------------SNIP---------------- In particular, has anyone heard any hint that the family >of John Denver plans to bring a lawsuit against the seller, Rutan, or anyone >else? They'd certainly have a case if anybody did, and the money to pursue >it, but If they had such thoughts, they probably gave them up after their >lawyers told them about the chance of winning. - ---------SNIP--------> >> >Mike Taglieri > > Mike, What makes you say "They'd certainly have a case if anybody did,..... "? I didn't pay that close attention to the story details and I probably have missed something. What makes someone else liable if he (Denver) wasn't even in the air legally? And do we know what actually caused the crash anyway? Was he operating the aircraft within it's operating limits, etc.? This is not a FLAME, I'm just curious............. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:03:29 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: Re: KR: Registering Experimental Acft????? Mike , Thanks for the help. Yes, I am an I/A. I think Ive got it figured out now. Lloyd On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:31:49 -0800 Micheal Mims writes: >At 01:06 AM 11/24/97 EST, you wrote: >>Ross , >> Thanks for the reply.. My problem is this.... The acft in >>question has already got an N number from the FAA and has flown off >its >required flight test period as spelled out by the DAR that did the >>airworthiness inspection..... > >Too late! :o) I think once the aircraft is signed off for flight the >manufacturer can not be changed. Seeing how its manufactured already! > :o) > >I think your friend (previous owner and builder) is worrying about >nothing >but I can understand. You say your an IA? I would just register >the >plane as it is,.. the builder as the manufacturer and you as the >owner. >Don't cut it up! Fly it !!!! > >The original builder should have NEVER sold it if he didn't want to >see it >fly again! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:03:29 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: Re: KR: Getting an AC is easy for homebuilt airplanes. Tom, Thank you for the reality check, some time you get so wraped up in forest you forget to untangle the trees that blind you. Your assement of homebuilts makes a lot of sense Im going to proceed as you suggest... Thanks Again, Lloyd On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:22:36 -0500 (EST) TomKR2S@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 97-11-25 09:17:24 EST, you write: > ><< I would wonder how far down you would have to strip it to where it >loses > its identity; obviously, you can't dismantle the boat, and if you >took > it down to that stage, you would be right on the thin "50%" line for > claiming to be the new builder, if you kept the firewall forward and > wings. Looks like you'd have to scrap a lot of stuff. I think you > should just register and fly- after all, what can the original owner >do > to you? >> > > >For it to lose it's identity you would only have to strip the >nameplate and >n-number off it to make it into parts. From there you have to add >your own >nameplate and n-number and a good dose of courage because you'll be >flying in >an airplane about which you know nothing about the construction. >This response is straight from a local DAR who was doing an >Airworthiness >Inspection on a Hummelbird. The FAR's only say that 51% has to be >amateur-built, not that you have to be that particular amateur that >built it. > By putting your name as the manufacturer, you are saying that the >parts are >sufficient to do the job in your opinion as the manufacturer of an >experimental airplane. We put many, many, preformed and preassembled >parts >on our planes, and airframe parts are no different. If you sell this >plane, >and you don't want the liability of being listed as the manufacturer, >you >only need to remove the n-number and nameplate from it and then it's >just >parts as far as the DAR is concerned. You keep the Airworthiness >Certificate, nameplate, registration, and all documentation, and then >any >pilot that flies it without getting an Airworthiness Certificate has >violated >the FAR's and that would be the first thing the FAA puts at the top of >the >accident investigation findings "THIS AIRCRAFT WAS FLOWN WITHOUT AN >AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE AND THUS WAS NOT AIRWORTHY. Even if >someone could >prove it was airworthy at a prior date, and had an AC just prior to >the date >of sale, it doesn't produce any liability for you because it did not >have an >AC on the day the pilot flew it if you kept the AC. If you really >want to >insulate yourself, unscrew every nut and bolt and dismantle it then >take a >picture of it on the date of sale with you and the buyer picking up >his >"project". Anything that needs work is a project and a project is not >ready >to fly. > >Many people are extremely confused on the differences between getting >an >Airworthiness Certificate as Experimental Amateur-Built versus getting >the >Repairman's Certificate. They are two distinct items, the Repairman's >Certificate being much harder to obtain since records of you building >it are >required. For the Airworthiness Certificate all you have to produce >is an >airworthy airplane, and a Registration (N-number). You cannot even >get the >Repairman's certificate from a DAR, only from the FAA itself, and you >apply >for it separately from the AC. >The only thing about the completed airplane that you have to prove is >that it >is either on the FAA's 51% list for amateur-built airplanes OR that an >amateur(s) did 51% of the work on it. I think everyone can attest to >the >fact that not only is the KR-2 on the 51% list, but that it also takes >a >little more ;-) than 51% of the time required to complete all aspects >of the >kit even if you have purchased all the RR premolded parts. In fact, >it >probably takes 99% of the time required to complete the kit when you >consider >the time it took to fabricate the RR parts. This 51% rule only really >requires documentation of your building time when you're trying to >certify as >experimental amateur-built a kit that may have been so highly >prefabricated >at the kit factory that it only takes a few hours ( like 50-100) to >complete >it, such as the trike ultralight types. > >I am not keeping track of my building time and don't plan to. When >I'm done >only then will I be able to know how far along I was at any time in >the past. > So when I'm done, I'm done. I think if I knew I had 1500 hours in it >and >was only 45% done I would just shoot myself. I prefer to think it >will only >take ME 600 hours and I already have 200 in it after a year and a >half, so I >have another three years to go. I don't consider head-scratching time >to be >part of the building time, that's part of my learning curve which is >the >other thing I will have when I'm done: An Education. >All the head-scratching doesn't take nearly the same energy as >building. > This brand of mathematics is called Motivational Mathematics. If you >do the >math right, you get motivated to keep going. If you use regular math, >it's >much harder to keep going. >(tongue planted firmly in cheek). >-Tom > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:59:18 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: KR: liability Fellow netters: After my earlier reply to Mike, I found a news story at LANDINGS.COM about the Denver crash. Some interesting information !!! I am convinced that accidents seldom have a single causal factor but are the result of a series of events that lead to an accident. Generally , if a different decission is made during any one of these "events", a totally different outcome will result. The Denver case: Event # 1: The fuel selector was located in a non-standard position by the builder. The pilot would have to release his right hand from the stick, reach across his left shoulder, and find the fuel-selector control to change tanks. Denver had borrowed a pair of vise grips ,either to give himself additional reach or to give himself additional leverage. Event # 2 The site guages were difficult for Denver to see so he borrowed a mirror from a mechanic to help him better read the site tubes. ( DING, DING, DING, DING, anyone hear any bells here yet???) Event # 3 Denver declined fuel before he took off saying he was only going to be out for about an hour. As near as can be determined, there was only about 15 gallon in the aircraft when Denver picked it up the day before and flew it home (approx. one hour). SPLASH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many stop signs do we let Joe Blow run before we say," O.K., now YOU are responsible." Just my humble opinion, no flames intented............. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:19:30 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Experimental A/C Liability At 09:02 AM 11/27/97 -0800, you wrote: >Yes, I am paranoid about liabilty. There are too many lawyers chasing too few real cases. > >-- >Don Reid >mailto:donreid@erols.com >http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Yea me too, so I plan to give mine to my oldest son when he gets his license. (of course that's if I deem my KR as a safe airplane) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:21:48 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: missing something At 03:20 PM 11/27/97 -0800, you wrote: By the way I've been told: before thinking of engine mount, complete >your airframe, paint it, add all equipments (or ballast, in front of the >firewall); then establish weights (empty and loaded etc.) If the CG >range is not OK you can change the engine mount lenght, and make one suited to your own machine. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. >Ciao... Yes,.. that is the best way to do it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:36:51 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: missing something Alessandro Pecorara wrote: > I spent a lot of time with other silly questions: today I'm worried > about engine mount' > where can I find one such thing (RR list for 'S hasn't it)? > My flying machine will be (I do hope) a KR2S with nosewheel and a VW > conversion (or, maybe, a Limbach 2000 engine). The Tony Bingelis book "Firewall Forward" has several drawings for Lyc. and Cont. engine mounts. The design will not be too different. Tony's books should be required reading for homebuilders. They are available from the EAA and are well worth the money. > By the way I've been told: before thinking of engine mount, complete > your airframe, paint it, add all equipments (or ballast, in front of the > firewall); then establish weights (empty and loaded etc.) If the CG > range is not OK you can change the engine mount lenght, and make one > suited to your own machine. I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. > Ciao... That is basically my plan, except I will not paint first. The after the airframe is completed, I will do a weight and balance, without engine and with assumed weights for cowling, prop, spinner, and battery. The battery installation will be the last thing after paint. Its placement should fine tune the CG to exactly where I want it. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:19:56 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: FAA Accident Report This was an actual report ?!?!?! Oh Boy!! John F. Esch Salem, OR BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > KRNetheads: > > Sorry for the off topic, but htis one was too good not to share. > > Have agood turkey day. > > Randy Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Excerpt from Recent FAA Accident Report > Eyewitness Statement > > AIRCRAFT: CESSNA 172 > PILOT: 30 YRS OLD, CFI, IR > FATALITIES: None > DAMAGE: Substantial > DATE OF ACCIDENT: July 10 1982 > > WITNESS: Line attendant at *** airport > > Pilot came to airport at 9 AM 10 Jul 1982. Line boy reports padlock on > > his hangar door was so rusted he had to break it off with a 10# > ball-peen hammer. > > Also had to inflate all 3 tires and scrap pigeon droppings off > wind-screen. After several attempts to drain fuel strainers--pilot > finally got what looked like fuel out of the wings sumps. Couldn't get > > the oil dipstick out of the engine but said it was okay last time he > looked. > > Engine started okay -- ran rough for about 1/2 minute. Then died. Then > > battery would not turn prop. Used battery cart and although starter > was > smoking real good, it finally started and the prop wash blew the smoke > > away. > > Line boy offered to fuel airplane up but pilot said he was late for an > > appointment at a nearby airport. Said it wasn't far. Taxied about 1/2 > way out to active runway and the engine stopped. Pushed it back to the > > fuel pumps and bought 3 gallons for the left wing tank. Started it > again. This time, he was almost out to the runway when it quit again. > Put a little rock under nose wheel; hand propped it; and was seen > still > trying to climb in the airplane as it went across the runway. Finally > got in it; blew out the right tire trying to stop before the cement > plant. > > When he taxied back in to have the tire changed, he also had the line > boy hit the right wing with 3 gallons of gas. Witness, who saw the > take-off, said the aircraft lined up and took off to the north. > Takeoff > looked fairly normal -- nose came up about 300 ft down the runway. At > midfield nose came down. Engine coughed twice -- then cut power and > applied the brakes which made both doors fly open and a big fat brown > book fell out on the runway and released probably a million little > white > pages with diagrams on them. Looked like sort of a snow storm. > > After several real loud runups at the end, he turned her around and > took > off in the other direction going south into the wind. Only this time > he > horsed her off at the end and pulled her up real steep like one of > them > jet fighter planes -- to about 300 ft -- then the engine quit! > > Did a sort of a slow turn back toward the airport -- kinda like that > Art > School guy -- and about 30 ft off the McDonald's cafe she started > roaring again. He did sort of a high speed pass down the runway; put > the > flaps down to full and that sucker went up like he was going to do an > Immelman! > > The engine quit again and he turned right and I thought he was coming > right through the front window of the F.B.O.; but he pulled her up -- > went through the TV antenna and the little rooster with the NSE&W > things > -- over the building then bounced the main wheels off the roof of 3 > different cars in the lot -- a Porsche, a Mercedes and Dr. Brown's new > > El Dorado. > > When he bounced off the El Dorado the engine roared to life and he got > > her flying. Came around toward the runway and set her down -- once on > the overrun, once on the runway and once in the grass beside the > runway. > He taxied into the ramp -- shut her down -- and ordered 3 more gallons > > of gas. Said it was for safety's sake. > > Then he asked where the phone booth was as he had to call his student > and tell him he was going to be a little bit late. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:10:48 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress? Yesterday was a fun day out at the hanger, I spent about 6 hours working on the beast (well actually 2 of those hours shooting the...) George Bell dropped by around 11:00 am so he could see the KR upside-right. Last time he saw it was when she was inverted. Anyway I think he liked what he saw and mentioned something about his mind being made up on which airplane to build. I think he WAS contemplating a Vision after sitting in the little KR2 that Janette has in her shop. Anyway I will let George tell you more about my KR as it should be un bias ! :o) Brad Hale popped in around 1:00pm to tinker with his Dragonfly. He and his wife are planning a trip to Big Bear or Mammoth this weekend and he had to hook up the cockpit heater. I think he did an oil change and plug inspection too. Anyway I think the homebuilding BUG bit George pretty hard after hanging out with in the presence of 2 Dragonflies, and RV6A, and a KR2S! George??? are you OK? :o) I understand George has a Comanche for sale, I think after yesterday it may be a little lower in asking price eh George? :o) I added the last 2 pieces of foam to the upper surface of the stub wings and started foaming the area where the vertical and horizontal stabs come together. It was so cold in Southern California, not to mention VERY wet that the 30 minute epoxy was taking about 4 hours to cure! ARGH! Oh well they should be ready for sanding and glassing on Sunday. I installed my brake lines and two pieces of 1/2 inch plastic conduit in the leading edges of the wing stubs. I plan to route electrical and pitot/static lines inside them. Next week I plan to buy the foam and plywood to start on my outer wing cores. I need to call RR and see if the WAFs are available yet. Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:40:08 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Hello World? I think the admin accidently un-subscribed himself from the list last week. I don't have any KRNET email.... so... if there was somthing important that I missed send me an email to rossy@teleport.com - -- Thanks Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:05:38 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------846C806F99B8E04E2B9EC260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Say.... I'm looking for jsellars@auracom.com If you are getting KRNET email. perhaps you can help me figure this out. Are you forwarding your email? It appears to be bouncing and filling up my mailbox. :(. - -- Ross - --------------846C806F99B8E04E2B9EC260 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail1.hookup.net (mail1.hookup.net [165.154.105.5]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA11872 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 04:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost) by mail1.hookup.net (8.8.6/1.25) with internal id HAA05174; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:40:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199711191240.HAA05174@mail1.hookup.net> To: Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) The original message was received at Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:40:35 -0500 (EST) from root@skywalker.hookup.net [165.154.105.14] Please contact postmaster@hookup.net for assistance. ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to loki.hfx.hookup.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Message header follows ----- Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Received: from skywalker.hookup.net (root@skywalker.hookup.net [165.154.105.14]) by mail1.hookup.net (8.8.6/1.25) with ESMTP id HAA03828 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (smtp2.teleport.com [192.108.254.20]) by skywalker.hookup.net (8.8.5/8.8.5/island.generic) with ESMTP id AAA27870 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:05:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17770; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp2.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:46:55 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id UAA17706 for krnet-l-outgoing; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17612 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:46:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from leperkins@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XnC06249; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:45:52 EST To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: KR: 5151 kit for sale or trade Message-ID: <19971119.004705.8271.0.LEPerkins@juno.com> References: <19971118142349.19591.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,6-12 From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:45:52 EST Sender: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed ----- - --------------846C806F99B8E04E2B9EC260-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:15:12 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Non-member submission from [Linda Bennett ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------6B2D2090AE51DF889F8013E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------6B2D2090AE51DF889F8013E3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id OAA10450; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:01:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:01:36 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199711182201.OAA10450@smtp1.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Linda Bennett ] >From krnet-l-owner Tue Nov 18 14:01:02 1997 Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net (sweden-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.50]) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10143 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from 153.36.249.119 (1Cust119.tnt16.dfw5.da.uu.net [153.36.249.119]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA25103 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:00:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3471CA72.5768@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:03:45 +0000 From: Linda Bennett Reply-To: ag367@earthlink.net Organization: Great Plains Aircraft Supply Co. Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy and fuel References: <19971117.184514.25278.1.wolfpacks@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If your in the market for a custom made aluminum tank for your kr's contact greg at Speciality Welding. He can make a custom - light weight tank to fit your kr/instrument panel cutouts etc... 920-293-8089 Steve - --------------6B2D2090AE51DF889F8013E3-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:16:07 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: How is your Itialian? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------19E877C952AC9279AE9F2F7D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How's your Itialian - --------------19E877C952AC9279AE9F2F7D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id GAA06538; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:19:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:19:21 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199711191419.GAA06538@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [alessandro.pecorara@aixopenet6.ope.net] >From krnet-l-owner Wed Nov 19 06:19:16 1997 Received: from aixopenet6.ope.net (aixopenet6.ope.net [158.102.161.1]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA06475 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by aixopenet6.ope.net (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13412; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:08:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:08:00 +0100 Message-Id: <9711191408.AA13412@aixopenet6.ope.net> Reply-To: a.pecorara@telecomitalia.it From: alessandro.pecorara@aixopenet6.ope.net To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: C'e' una cartolina da Torino che ti attende! Ciao KR-net. alessandro pecorara ti ha spedito una cartolina da Torino. Per riceverla vai all'indirizzo: http://www.comune.torino.it/htbin/cartoline/get_card.pl?QEIBNJCA La tua cartolina sara' disponibile all'indirizzo per 10 giorni. Saluti Servizio offerto dal Comune di Torino: http://www.comune.torino.it/cartoline - --------------19E877C952AC9279AE9F2F7D-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:20:13 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------D35C8219CB342DFEAA81EFA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------D35C8219CB342DFEAA81EFA0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id LAA27745; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:24:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:24:26 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199711211924.LAA27745@smtp4.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ] >From krnet-l-owner Fri Nov 21 11:24:24 1997 Received: from San-Jose.ate.slb.com (k2-1.San-Jose.ate.slb.com [163.185.48.3]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27716 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (rossy-ss5.San-Jose.ate.slb.com) by San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1-Z) id AA18762; Fri, 21 Nov 97 11:24:08 PST Received: from evergreen (localhost) by evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00464; Fri, 21 Nov 97 11:23:09 PST Sender: rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Message-Id: <3475DF9C.63DECDAD@san-jose.ate.slb.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:23:08 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Organization: SABER X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: KRNET Subject: Re: KR: Ellison woes, part 2 References: <971119130045_-1667785200@mrin39> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob, Ouch. Ouch. First off... let me say that I haven't started my engine yet. So that makes everything I say from here on out suspect. My Ellison manual says I need from 1/2-3psi of fuel pressure, and although I have two electric fuel pumps currently (left/right wing) I was considering using my header tank gravity feed. I used 3/8 tubing to the gascolator, and 1/4 tubing to the carb. I was talking to a fellow EAAer about my fuel system setup and he didn't like the idea of the Ellison being without fuel pressure at any time. He things I should move my fuel pumps, and simplify. Probably good advice, however I stil want to try the header tank idea just in case. I'm wondering if you just dont have enough fuel pressure for the fuel to properly atomize all along the length of the metering tube. Perhaps it just leaks out at one end due to lack of pressure. (I don't know anything about fluid dynamics, except the two words I just used, but this is my zany theory on what to look for.) I would go grab a $20 boost pump. Plumb it in and see if it fixes the problem before I moved the carb up top... (Unless you want to move it for other reasons). If after adding fuel pressure, you still have a problem, you might want Ellison to take a look at your carb, just to make sure it's OK. I'm just thinking of my old friend Murphy. Suppose you move the carb, and add fuel pressure, and you STILL have this problem UGH! However I know an A&P who really thinks Carbs should be on TOP caus gravity is working against you when the carb is on the bottom. -- Ross BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > KRNetheads: > > Looks like we struck out on this one so far. Following is an update note > from Rob on status. Any other bright ideas? > > Randy Stein > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > <<...Any way, I did the splitter and eased the 90 degree bend and ya know > what - didn't help one bit - I'm getting desperate now, and moving the carb > up top is sounding better all along. I may even go to a parts place to see > how big the VW manual fuel pump really is and how it will look poking out of > my cowl. Still hate the thought of running just an electric pump solo. or > maybe I could weld an extension on the arm and put a ball on the end and > mount it in the cockpit and reinvent the wobble pump-I know I got the motion > down!>> - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------D35C8219CB342DFEAA81EFA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:20:31 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------55DE35E27E0F2FBBA3C2871A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------55DE35E27E0F2FBBA3C2871A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id LAA28139; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:25:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199711211925.LAA28139@smtp4.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ] >From krnet-l-owner Fri Nov 21 11:25:08 1997 Received: from San-Jose.ate.slb.com (k2-1.San-Jose.ate.slb.com [163.185.48.3]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28096 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (rossy-ss5.San-Jose.ate.slb.com) by San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1-Z) id AA18192; Fri, 21 Nov 97 11:06:02 PST Received: from evergreen (localhost) by evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00454; Fri, 21 Nov 97 11:05:03 PST Sender: rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Message-Id: <3475DB5F.6201DD56@san-jose.ate.slb.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:05:03 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Organization: SABER X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: KRNET Subject: Re: KR: NLF: A modest proposal References: <19971119141550.20610.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy, I was just at the local sign place, and they have a "photographed metal" process that looks pretty indistructable for a name plate. I'm told it's pretty expensive. I got pricing on some vinyl lettering, and am getting a quote on some KR-2 lapel pins. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Hello, Netters > > Since a builder can call his homebuilt any model name he wants, if the > NLF wing proves out to be the new way to go, can we designate the new > model "/N", as in, "KR-2S/N" (designating, of course, the NLF airfoil > option, and read as 'slant-November', coincidentally the month in 1997 > when this is coming together)? Does it sound like I'm already thinking > about my FAA-required aircraft info plate, to be permanently and > securely attached to the aft fuselage? ;o) > > Or is everybody just going to call it "the Langford wing", as in "the > Diehl gear" or whatever? > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com - --------------55DE35E27E0F2FBBA3C2871A-- ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #179 *****************************