From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 8:18 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #190 krnet-l-digest Friday, December 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 190 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:35:00 GMT From: "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" Subject: KR:British help needed I happen to have a spare set of Taylor Titch drawings looking for a good home. They are old but readable. The Titch was the follow up design by John Taylor of his earlier Taylor Monoplane. They are pretty similar; the Mono is a docile VW powered design and the Titch is usually fitted with 90 or 100 hp Continentals and was produced in a design competition for a low cost racing aircraft. I am desperately keen to get a copy of Bruce Carmichael's Book ' Personal Aircraft Drag reduction' published by Bruce at 34795 Camino Capisteano, Capistrano Beach, Ca 92624 at a cost of $25 US bucks. I would be more than happy to do a straight exchange. Whatd'ya say Oscar? If you want to do a deal let me know your home address for posting Richard Mole R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:29:57 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Re: New Airfoil Test Patrick Flowers wrote: > Mark, were these spar dimensions a SWAG for comfort or did you have some > firm numbers? Did the numbers. But cheated and used "Sparana". > The more I think about it(scary, isn't it?), the more I lean toward > building the wing first(at least to the point of assembling the spars > and jigging them together with airfoil templates) and then building the > boat to fit it. Don't sweat the fuselage too much. Mine slid right in after only minimal clearancing, most of which was due to the angle that the verticals are now in with respect to the spar. I'd go ahead and leave a little extra space around the spar if I were going to use some airfoil that's shorter (so you can make it thicker to compensate). And you're write about the rod end bearings not being long enough. That was the main reason I couldn't make them work, but there has to be something out there, or some other way to make bearings work in that application. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:02:51 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: KR: KR-NET KR2S drawings ... the never ending story ... I've found some unused KR2S plans here in Italy, but I don't know how to evaluate if they are up to date or not ... what's the last edition? I know that plans are composed by 6 drawings and the builder manual. Is that true? What shuld be a reasonable prices for that? I've read some days ago (but I've trashed it ... foolish man ...) that somebody who bought unused plan is going to "reregister" them ... was I dreaming? Ciao, Michele - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Italtel, a Stet and Siemens Company Castelletto di Settimo Milanese 20019 Settimo Milanese (MILANO) Italy Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it Phone: +39-2-43889077 Fax: +39-2-43888431 MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:05:52 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Home is where you hang your hat! Jeremy Casey wrote: > > Patrick, do you live on the internet??? Nah, just next door to it :) Actually, I have a job that gives me a convenient opportunity to check my email on a regular basis(usually +/-30min). Many KRNet regulars work with their computers, so answers come pretty quick. Quickest may not be accurate though, as I now see I blew the answer to your main gear question as I thought you were asking about the nose gear. > 'Nuff chit-chat. I live south of Phenix City, AL./Columbus, Ga. I am > about 5 miles off the west end of Lawson Army Airfield's main runway on Fort > Benning, Ga.(Largest Army base in the world). I'm in Tyrone GA(SW of Atlanta), about 1.5 hrs from Columbus I think. Just getting ready to start on the hor. stab., but there is a KRNetter almost next door to me that's building a KR2. > I understand Mark Langford is in Huntsville? is anyone closer to me than > that? Huntsville is about a 5-6 hour ride from here(I wouldn't mind that > though) I've been wanting to pay Mark a visit for a couple months now. Maybe I could swing by and pick you up on the way? Need to think a couple months down the road though, to let Mark's personal situation with his wife's auto accident get straightened out. > Anybody willing to answer a bunch of questions from someone who knows > next to nothing about a KR (or composite aircraft for that matter!) please > drop me a line. Plenty of those on KRNet! > I'm not against a steak or something for anyone wanting to be a teacher > for a day! (My treat, of course. I'm prone to running to the Outback > Steakhouse at the slightest hint of hunger) Now you're talkin'! Patrick (definitely food motivated) - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:11:43 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: British help offered I'll take up Richard's bargain offer, if Oscar passes it up. Brian inet@intellisys.net At 10:05 12/11/97 GMT, you wrote: > >I happen to have a spare set of Taylor Titch drawings looking for a good >home. They are old but readable. The Titch was the follow up design by John >Taylor of his earlier Taylor Monoplane. They are pretty similar; the Mono is >a docile VW powered design and the Titch is usually fitted with 90 or 100 hp >Continentals and was produced in a design competition for a low cost racing >aircraft. > >I am desperately keen to get a copy of Bruce Carmichael's Book ' Personal >Aircraft Drag reduction' published by Bruce at 34795 Camino Capisteano, >Capistrano Beach, Ca 92624 at a cost of $25 US bucks. > >I would be more than happy to do a straight exchange. Whatd'ya say Oscar? If >you want to do a deal let me know your home address for posting > >Richard Mole >R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk > > brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:55:59 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: KR-NET Michele Bucceri wrote: > > KR2S drawings ... the never ending story ... > > I've found some unused KR2S plans here in Italy, but I don't know how to > evaluate if they are up to date or not ... what's the last edition? > I know that plans are composed by 6 drawings and the builder manual. Is > that true? My plans set contain the following(which I feel is a complete set): KR2 Plans: KR-2 Drawing 1 - Revision B 10/8/82 KR-2 Drawing 2 - Revision B 3/31/88 (Looks like Rev. B was just an address change) Full Size Firewall Template Manual KR2S Supplement: KR-2S Drawing A - 9/92 KR-2S Drawing B - 9/92 KR-2S Drawing W1 - 6/22/93 KR-2S Drawing W2 - 6/22/93 KR-2S Drawing W3 - 6/22/93 So my count is 8 drawings and the manual. If they are KR2S plans, I wouldn't worry about the rev. date. Not much has changed since the S supplement came out. > What shuld be a reasonable prices for that? Ask the seller, you may be pleasantly surprised. I gave US$150 for mine and felt that was reasonable. > I've read some days ago (but I've trashed it ... foolish man ...) that > somebody who bought unused plan is going to "reregister" them I don't think this is a big issue as you're not gonna' get a lot of help from RR anyway. You should get a copy of the "Purchase Agreement" stating the serial number of the plans and the name of the original owner. You can send a copy of that to RR with a letter stating that you purchased these unused from the original purchaser and requesting that they transfer the registration of that serial number to you. Hope this helps, Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:25:46 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Reusing plans >KR2S drawings ... the never ending story ... > >I've found some unused KR2S plans here in Italy, but I don't know how to >evaluate if they are up to date or not ... what's the last edition? >I know that plans are composed by 6 drawings and the builder manual. Is >that true? What shuld be a reasonable prices for that? I've read some >days ago (but I've trashed it ... foolish man ...) that somebody who >bought unused plan is going to "reregister" them ... was I dreaming? > >Ciao, >Michele > No, you weren't dreaming, I think that was me that said that. I just heard back from Rand Robinson about re-registering the plans that I bought from somebody who had never used them. Instead of a reply, they sent me a form which is sent to registered builders, offering to upgrade to the new reprinted plans which include info on use of premolded parts, etc., by trading in the old plans. They offer basically a $50 credit if you return the old plans and manual. So, instead of paying $165 for the plans, it ends up being $115... plus there is still the $75 additional for the KR-2S supplement. As far as a new edition, I have no idea. I know there are 'old' plans and 'newer' plans, but don't know the revision dates. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:28:36 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: British help offered > >I'll take up Richard's bargain offer, if Oscar passes it up. >Brian >inet@intellisys.net > > Back off, dude. The deal's sealed ;o) Ya snooze, ya lose! Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:34:00 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: next generation KR? THis is a picture of a 1:24 scale model I am making of the Europa kit plane. http://www.newtech.com/model/model.html I am making these models from fiberglass and selling them as limited edition models to registered Europa builders. This would make a nice looking KR Century 21. Just need a little more foam for the round edges :-) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:18:57 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: British help offered Richard, If Oscar doesn't take that set of plans, I'll take them. I've seen this bird and it is very nice. E-mail me if you still want for a buyer. Dave Moore At 10:05 AM 12/11/97 GMT, you wrote: > >I happen to have a spare set of Taylor Titch drawings looking for a good >home. They are old but readable. The Titch was the follow up design by John >Taylor of his earlier Taylor Monoplane. They are pretty similar; the Mono is >a docile VW powered design and the Titch is usually fitted with 90 or 100 hp >Continentals and was produced in a design competition for a low cost racing >aircraft. > >I am desperately keen to get a copy of Bruce Carmichael's Book ' Personal >Aircraft Drag reduction' published by Bruce at 34795 Camino Capisteano, >Capistrano Beach, Ca 92624 at a cost of $25 US bucks. > >I would be more than happy to do a straight exchange. Whatd'ya say Oscar? If >you want to do a deal let me know your home address for posting > >Richard Mole >R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:20:18 CDT From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: new airfoil, new airplane G'Day All The effort to test/design a new airfoil is changing the order of activities on my project markedly: 1. Horizontal stabilizer will be first, using symmetrical airfoil and Langford alignment technique. Current plan is to use four hinges outboard of control arm and fuselage wall. Control arm will be centered in fuselage with a). link to pushrod below hinge line (control rod system will come off top of stick and above rear spar and between seats), b). elevator balance arm will stick forward toward v. stab. 2. Start cockpit/spar inboard section mockup from scrap lumber. a). From scale drawings, work out kinematics of pushrods for elevators and ailerons. b). Design dual-stick system for pushrods. c). Fab stick & bearings. d).fabricate and install bellcraks. d). Fab & install seats e). Fab & install rudder pedals and brakes e). Hanger-fly for long periods to test 'fit' of everything. f). work out fuel system details. 3. Work out fuselage details based on the then-current data on RAF/other airfoils, since it will affect everything else. * Current discussions bring up old dislikes. Always disliked fact that spars were slightly off perpendicular to airfoil chordline. * Do like way some plastic KR offshoots build/align all wing sections before installation in fuselage. * Do think center-of-lift location of alternate airfoils will have to be considered with respect to "natural" center of gravity of "basic" KR2S and CG range of airfoil. * Modify fuselage side design and build sides along with all the above in the recently completed drywalled chamber/cell/whatever in attic of garage before hot weather hits. * Above approach is also intended to assuage wifely concerns about MESS.- Her car con't be the one pushed out onto the driveway. YES I DO believe use of a different airfoil is the driving force for generating the design of the next generation of VW to 100 hp competition to the big, EXPENSIVE, heavier, all-plastic leggo-planes. Rex Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:44:38 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR: Reusing plans Let me simplify this, the old plans came in a 8x10 booklet and the cover was a different color depending on when you bought them. If you had orange, about 1977, if you had blue about 1984. And now if you have a three ring binder it is the new and improved edition with rewrites from Kevin Kelly. And the differences is (drum roll): about $100.00 US. I've got all three sets, the old ones were given to me free gratis, like you I said "they must have made a few additions", so I bought a new set just for the 2s supplement. The only mods being done now, are right here on KRnet. Any of the plans will build you a KR, I've even got a set of KR1 plans somewhere. Dave Moore At 06:25 AM 12/11/97 PST, you wrote: > > >>KR2S drawings ... the never ending story ... >> >>I've found some unused KR2S plans here in Italy, but I don't know how >to >>evaluate if they are up to date or not ... what's the last edition? >>I know that plans are composed by 6 drawings and the builder manual. Is >>that true? What shuld be a reasonable prices for that? I've read some >>days ago (but I've trashed it ... foolish man ...) that somebody who >>bought unused plan is going to "reregister" them ... was I dreaming? >> >>Ciao, >>Michele >> >No, you weren't dreaming, I think that was me that said that. I just >heard back from Rand Robinson about re-registering the plans that I >bought from somebody who had never used them. Instead of a reply, they >sent me a form which is sent to registered builders, offering to upgrade >to the new reprinted plans which include info on use of premolded parts, >etc., by trading in the old plans. They offer basically a $50 credit if >you return the old plans and manual. So, instead of paying $165 for the >plans, it ends up being $115... plus there is still the $75 additional >for the KR-2S supplement. > >As far as a new edition, I have no idea. I know there are 'old' plans >and 'newer' plans, but don't know the revision dates. > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:28:35 From: "Troy Johnson" Subject: RE: Re: KR: Phoenix Being Invaded!!! At 10:54 AM 12/8/97 CDT, you wrote: >John >I will be in the Sun >city area during this same time period and will meet you whenever you want. Just say and I will try to set it up. >Don > > Hi Don, I got your voice mail but accidentally deleted it, ooops! Actually I still have your business card from Copperstate ' 96, I was the one who had purchased plans from Jeannette after seeing John Holscher's modified KR. Give me a call when you have some spare time while you are here, hopefully we can get a group together.. Talk to you later...Troy ************************************************************* If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! Troy A. Johnson WYLE Electronics 1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North Phoenix, AZ 85034 (602)-495-9953 (602)-416-2158 (direct) ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:59:30 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Clamps? Hey, thanks Micheal but I got the idea off KRnet about a year ago. Austin (all my copies are original) Clark http://www.datasync.com/~itac At 23:47 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >Wow Austin, great minds must think alike! :o) > > I made a few of these a year or two ago and they worked fantastic! Go to: > >http://www.datasync.com/~itac/clamps.htm >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:55:35 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: British help offered richard, how much for the plans? tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:32:01 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test patrick, are you going to use the stock tailfeathers or something different? you might want to wait till the new wings are tested to match up the tail. just a thought. tandem2 in holding ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:16:53 EST From: JEHayward Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test In a message dated 97-12-11 02:24:12 EST, you write: << Are you able to use the stock spar and just change the wing? I haven't put the Diehl skins on yet and was thinking that maybe I could change to this newer airfoil. > >Jim Hayward Dude, if you already have a set of Diehl Skins,..Use them! I would! REALLY I would! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> And just reduce the incidence a degree or two??? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:33:22 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Huntsville Gathering III > I've been wanting to pay Mark a visit for a couple months now. Maybe I > could swing by and pick you up on the way? Need to think a couple > months down the road though, to let Mark's personal situation with his > wife's auto accident get straightened out. Jeremy and Patrick, Ya'll are welcome any time. Saturday afternoons are best, however. Over the holidays might be good too. Don't worry about Jeanie. She drove her new (for us) Audi for the first time today. She's still pretty sore though. Her Jetta, well, didn't fare so well. You Subaru fans might get a kick out of the fact that I was looking hard for a 4WD Subaru wagon. Couldn't find one though, and jumped on the Audi deal. See ya'll in a few weeks, maybe. Stop by Ken Cornelius's place in Cullman on your way up. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:27:02 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test At 09:16 PM 12/11/97 EST, you wrote: > And just reduce the incidence a degree or two??? > >Jim Hayward > > Well that's kind of a personal call I guess. There are a few KR2s out there with 2.0 and 1.5 degrees incidence using the RAF and they fly great. Remember I aint no engineer and this is an old horse but 2.0 degrees with 1.5 or 2 degrees washout seems to be much more common on GA aircraft than 3.5 and 3.0! I couldn't find any other aircraft with as much incidence and washout with the exception of the Taylor Titch and Monoplane. Coincidence? I think NOT! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:40:55 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test TANDEM2 wrote: > > patrick, are you going to use the stock tailfeathers or something different? Definitely not the stock tailfeathers. I'll probably copy Mark with the 63009 after I finish second guessing him on that choice. > you might want to wait till the new wings are tested to match up the tail. > just a thought. Well, right now I'm tied up with redesigning the hinges to use rod-end bearings ala RV. By the time I get that nailed down, the wind tunnel tests will probably be finished. I tend to work slowly, mainly because of a tendency to armorplate everything. I second and third guess every decision to be sure I'm not just adding weight and complexity. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:15:02 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test Patrick Flowers wrote: > Definitely not the stock tailfeathers. I'll probably copy Mark with the > 63009 after I finish second guessing him on that choice. My decision to make it a 9% airfoil was based on the fact that the slightly higher lift curve vs the stocker would enhance the effect of the stabilizer, and the fact that the spar material that I had was 2 inches wide. Problem is that using this airfoil, I had to use 2" foam and a piece of 3/4" foam microed together (avoiding sanding the seam) because the airfoil is greater than 2" thick between the two spars. One of those things that you don't always manage to think of until you get there... The 8% might be a better choice for ease of construction reasons. You can second guess me and get away with it, but I wouldn't try my luck with Brian Whatcott... :) Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:10:17 -0800 From: hjfine@wave.net Subject: Re: KR: Re: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale At 11:27 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:08 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Now to the mundane: What is a 5151 kit? Please email details. > >Its a Replica P-51 kit, go to: > >http://www.interlog.com/~jbrooks/5151mustang.html > >I think the company has a web site but I can not find it at this time. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > >Michael: Thanks for the web site on the 5151 Mustang. What a pretty bird. Seems like they could get more speed it being such a clean design. Wonder why 85 is all it will cruise at. What is your opinion for a first time builder to tackle: the KR2 which seems more difficult than something simpler like for instance the 5151? Do appreciate your technical info, it's a joy to read. What do you mean, Service Guarantees Citizenship ? Thanks Mike, Hank > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:17:34 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: British help needed >I found the ad I was looking for in Sport Aviation, for plans for the >Taylor Monoplane. They are available for "60 pounds sterling", and I >don't know how much that is in greenbacks. Anybody out there know the >going conversion rate? If it's anything close to 1:1, sixty bucks ain't >too bad for me to settle the KR/Monoplane issue in my mind. I am >willing (and interested) in seeing these plans in order to compare to >KR. Last I looked it was about $1.50 to the pound. There's photos and blurbs about both Taylor planes in this month's Kitplanes, which is devoted to plans- built planes -- kit-built planes were last month. Why not just get their infopack for $5 (yes - dollars!) Oddly, the magazine puts the Sonerai in with the plans-built planes and the KR in with the kit-built planes, although I'm not sure the degree of factory- parts availability is significantly different. Maybe the diffeence is in whether they admit it -- Sonerai has never claimed to be anything but a plans- built plane with some factory parts. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:45:16 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale At 09:10 PM 12/11/97 -0800, you wrote: What a pretty bird. Seems like they could get more speed it being such a clean design. Wonder why 85 is all it will cruise at. > Well the picture in the web site is a little misleading! I think that's a REAL P-51. The 5151 is almost ultralite like, it is built a lot like those balsa stick models that are powered by rubber band and covered with tissue. It uses a 2 stroke snowmobile engine for power so I am sure that has something to do with its speed plus it just isn't designed to fly fast. >What is your opinion for a first time builder to tackle: the KR2 which >seems more difficult than something simpler like for instance the 5151? > I think the KR series of aircraft is the absolute simplest aircraft to build! It is a real piece of cake! There is a few items that should be included in the plans that arnt but for themost part the plans dont need to be any more technical than they are because the airplane is so basic in design. I think some guys run into trouble when they add to many items to the KR but I guess in the end its all a matter of what YOU want from the airplane. Personally I dont need IFR capability in any way, heck I dont even mind the thought of hand proping and going without an electrical system. My KR will be basic in that dept. (Instruments and radios) but more technical in others. >Do appreciate your technical info, it's a joy to read. What do you mean, >Service Guarantees Citizenship ? Thanks Mike, Hank >> Its a line (theme) from a movie that was out a few weeks ago. Starship Troopers. Funny thing is your only the second person to ask, either the KRNet readers don't get out much or??? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:41:47 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil/Airframe design - No archive >The wing would be a straight taper from the >stub to the tip, as it is now, but the tapered section would be >longer(hey, ya gotta' redesign the spar anyway). Lots of room for flaps >and ailerons, which should be hung from the aft wing spar. This would >put the dihedral break within the prop wash and give the plane a strong >resemblance to my all time favorite classic, the Globe Swift. Doesn't the wing design blocks the airflow to the tail at high AOA, l so it's impossible to do anything but a wheel landing? I hope this is not one of the features being copied. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:41:41 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Re: aluminum channel In a message dated 97-12-10 19:11:50 EST, you write: >> Bob, I got both of the channels from Wicks. The only thing I found is the >> fit of one inside the other is extremely tight. If I could get a >thousandth >> off each channel side, I think that would work just fine. The outsides of >the >> inside channel will sand easy enough but I don't know how I'll do the >insides >> of the outside channel yet. I'm still thinking about it. >> >> Jim Hayward > >For hinges, consider using the same size pieces for both the stationary and >moveable pieces. I used square stock 2" X 2" and cut the hinges from that. >Refer to the highly detailed drawing below. I also have a light AN washer >(half >thickness) between the pieces to prevent galling. > > _______________ > I I > I I I I > I I I I > I I I I > I_____________I Campagnolo Record bicycle derailleurs were once the standard of the world and are still highly regarded despite competition from Japan. These, like most of the other brands, were made of aluminum parts pivoting on steel shafts, but the Campagnolo units did not get sloppy in use like the competition because they had thin brass washers between all the moving parts to prevent galling. Instead of using AN washers, one could use such brass washers, which could be much thinner than an AN washer since they only transmit the force from one piece to another but have no need to resist force by themselves. I was just trying to look up aluminum-on-brass and aluminum-on-steel coefficients of friction to see how they compared with aluminum-on-aluminum, but I couldn't find it in Machinery's Handbook (possibly the first time I've ever been unable to find something of general interest -- it even has the density of woods). Whether such washer would provide as long-lasting a hinge as Oilite bushings [TM] I don't know, but they wouldn't require a complete redesign of the hinges in order to use them. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:39:17 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil/Airframe design - No archive MikeT nyc wrote: > > >This would > >put the dihedral break within the prop wash and give the plane a strong > >resemblance to my all time favorite classic, the Globe Swift. > > Doesn't the wing design blocks the airflow to the tail at high AOA, l so it's > impossible to do anything but a wheel landing? I hope this is not one of the > features being copied. There is an STC for wing root fairing extensions to fix that, but on the stock planes this is true. And no, I do not hope to copy that "feature". - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:49:20 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test - no archive Mark Langford wrote: > > Patrick Flowers wrote: > > > I'll probably copy Mark with the 63009 after > > I finish second guessing him on that choice. > > You can second guess me and get away with it, but I wouldn't > try my luck with Brian Whatcott... :) Oh why not? Don't we always learn something when Brian gets fired up? :o) Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:01:09 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville Gathering III Mark Langford wrote: > > > I've been wanting to pay Mark a visit for a couple months now. Maybe I > > could swing by and pick you up on the way? Need to think a couple > > months down the road though, to let Mark's personal situation with his > > wife's auto accident get straightened out. > > Jeremy and Patrick, > > Ya'll are welcome any time. Saturday afternoons are best, however. Over > the holidays might be good too. Well the holidays are terrible for me. This is our first Christmas since relocating and we'll be driving back to NC for the holidays. My schedule through the first of Jan. is shot. Mid-January would suit me better. Any other Atlanta area KRNetters up for a road trip? > Don't worry about Jeanie. She drove her new (for us) Audi for the first > time today. She's still pretty sore though. Her Jetta, well, didn't fare > so well. Glad to hear that she's bouncing back. I drove an '86 Jetta GLI for five years and loved that little car, but the idea of T-boning another(larger) vehicle with it hurts at just the thought. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:18:44 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Clamps? On clamps. Guess most of us netters know about this idea, but maybe the newbies would be interested: Select a wood dowel of the appropriate size, lop off a piece (in cross section), drill a hole, off center, through the dowel, to accept a screw. Screw it to the work table or jig and rotate to tighten it against whatever you're glueing. Works great and takes about 5-10 minutes to make a big pile of 'em. Ed Janssen the stock.At 06:59 PM 12/11/97, you wrote: >Hey, thanks Micheal but I got the idea off KRnet about a year ago. > >Austin (all my copies are original) Clark >http://www.datasync.com/~itac > >At 23:47 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Wow Austin, great minds must think alike! :o) >> >> I made a few of these a year or two ago and they worked fantastic! Go to: >> >>http://www.datasync.com/~itac/clamps.htm >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Micheal Mims >>Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship >> >>mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >>http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:27:52 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Re: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale What's weird about the 5151, is that the design looks so much like the P-51 that when you actually see it fly, it appears real strange and unappealing (to me, at least) because you expect that shape to be going 350 mph rather than at ultralight speeds. Ed Janssen At 09:10 PM 12/11/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:27 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >>At 10:08 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>Now to the mundane: What is a 5151 kit? Please email details. >> >>Its a Replica P-51 kit, go to: >> >>http://www.interlog.com/~jbrooks/5151mustang.html >> >>I think the company has a web site but I can not find it at this time. >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:13:05 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale Ed wrote: >What's weird about the 5151, is that the design looks so much like the P-51 >that when you actually see it fly, it appears real strange and unappealing >(to me, at least) because you expect that shape to be going 350 mph rather >than at ultralight speeds. > Ed; It doesn't matter what the guys on the ground see, cuz the guy at the stick IS doing 350 MPH, and has a couple of BF-109s at 12 o'clock in his sights! Plus, of course, it has the third wheel in the right place, so it still takes a genuine PILOT to put it down ;o) (Please- don't hit me...) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:25:36 -0800 From: "michael" Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test mike have you looked at the zodiac, build time 400 hours? I know one that is building it and says the time is correct, simply use pop rivets , all aluminum construction, another fellow that belongs to my chapter 14 E.A.A at brown field just near Mex.. border south San Diego is building one from scratch and says it's easy he can't see going for the kit which is close to $14,000 but you can put a variety of motors including the vw bug, I'm not one to start something like that from scratch try I think www.zenithair.com or go to which I'm sure you know www.kitplane.com michael San Diego,ca. - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 11:21 PM Subject: Re: KR: New Airfoil Test >At 12:58 AM 12/11/97 EST, you wrote: >> Are you able to use the stock spar and just change the wing? I haven't >put the Diehl skins on yet and was thinking that maybe I could change to >this newer airfoil.. >> >>Jim Hayward >> >> > >Dude, if you already have a set of Diehl Skins,..Use them! I would! REALLY >I would! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:48:02 -0800 From: "Don Rideout" <19don26@castles.com> Subject: Re: KR: Re: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale What do you mean we dont get out much, cut us dummies a little slack... 19don26@castles.com SeeYa! - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: LOEHLE 5151 kit for sale > Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 9:45 PM > > At 09:10 PM 12/11/97 -0800, you wrote: > What a pretty bird. Seems like they could get more speed it being such a > clean design. Wonder why 85 is all it will cruise at. > > > > > Well the picture in the web site is a little misleading! I think that's a > REAL P-51. The 5151 is almost ultralite like, it is built a lot like those > balsa stick models that are powered by rubber band and covered with tissue. > It uses a 2 stroke snowmobile engine for power so I am sure that has > something to do with its speed plus it just isn't designed to fly fast. > > > >What is your opinion for a first time builder to tackle: the KR2 which > >seems more difficult than something simpler like for instance the 5151? > > > > I think the KR series of aircraft is the absolute simplest aircraft to > build! It is a real piece of cake! There is a few items that should be > included in the plans that arnt but for themost part the plans dont need to > be any more technical than they are because the airplane is so basic in > design. I think some guys run into trouble when they add to many items to > the KR but I guess in the end its all a matter of what YOU want from the > airplane. Personally I dont need IFR capability in any way, heck I dont even > mind the thought of hand proping and going without an electrical system. My > KR will be basic in that dept. (Instruments and radios) but more technical > in others. > > >Do appreciate your technical info, it's a joy to read. What do you mean, > >Service Guarantees Citizenship ? Thanks Mike, Hank > >> > > Its a line (theme) from a movie that was out a few weeks ago. Starship > Troopers. Funny thing is your only the second person to ask, either the > KRNet readers don't get out much or??? :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Remember,..Service Guarantees Citizenship > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:18:20 -0500 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Question on how tight to make wheel nuts MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > > I have installed the main gear on the center spars and put the > cleavland wheels and brakes on. When I torque the wheel nuts to the > proper torque I must either back the nut off a small amount to put the > carter pin in or else tighten the nut up a little to align the carter > pin hole. > If I tighten it up to the next hole the wheel feels to tight and > will not roll freely. Anyone have experience with this. Should I back > the nut off or tighten it up to the next carter pin hole. And, how > freely should the wheel turn.??? Thanks > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net With car brakes, you always tighten the nut until it's snug against the bearing (not tight), then back it off to the nearest hole for the cotter pin. Too tight and your bearing will fail. I assume its the same for planes. Bob Smith ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #190 *****************************