From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 9:22 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #197 krnet-l-digest Monday, December 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 197 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:43:08 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR:Area 51 oh ya, say i can't blame them, i,d run too, oh well, randy, yes we all like your jokes. tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:23:31 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: X-wind landings Larry wrote: >Fellow Netters, builders, and flyers, > >I am prompted to reply to the recent post concerning x-wind landings >and the ability of tri-gear vs. conventional gear aircraft to >handle the x-wind. Very well said, Larry. I agree with all! This is why I like Jeff's longer-legged KR, BTW. When the wings are so close to the ground to start with, every inch you can get above the pavement helps when you're trying to hold a wing low. That and the fact that he used a 'standard' aircraft tailwheel assembly rather than the dinky Rand-Robinson setup, gives the bird a bit more x-wind capability. Then it's up to the pilot's skill with it. BTW- don't rule out the added extra help if you're landing on a wide runway... start your touchdown at the downwind corner, and land kinda diagonal into the wind (called 'cattywampus' by my old ex-duster pilot CFI)- it can mean the difference between making it, and running off the edge or a wave-off. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:01:14 -0800 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: Re: KR: Improved KR - Fodder for tought Randy If you noticed I disapeared each night early to put 2 curtain climbers to bed. I sure didn't find any area 51. Tom in Reno NV On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:53:22 EST BSHADR writes: >In a message dated 97-12-06 11:45:25 EST, Ron wrote: > ><< If a guy were to ponder this comment, would this possibly be a >KR-2S > derivative with mods that an unspecified KRNET dude is incorporating > with a possible new wing airfoil? I am not aware of any other >planes > similar to the KR except maybe the Pulsar. >> > >Ron: > >Hey, quit reading that crystal ball! The Pulsar AND the Vision are >advanced >versions of a KR class of plane. Area 51 of KRNet does have lots of >ideas >buzzing about. Ever notice how certain unnamed persons seemed to >mysteriously >disappear each evening during KRKosh? I can assure you it was not for >extra >sleep. There is nothing concrete on a new VW class of speedster >YET…just a >free flow of Area 51 ideas. > >As I have heard before, "…you can lead, you can follow, but get the >heck out >of the way if you are just going to stand there…" and I suspect there >is an >Area 51 Posse forming for the purpose of moving ahead with a KRNet VW2 >design. >It is called progress, it happens in every area of life. Nothing >stays the >same if it is to survive. > >Randy Stein >BSHADR@aol.com >Soviet Monica, CA > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:01:27 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: boat skinning tip KRBoatHeads, A tidbit of totally unsolicited advice on boat construction: after a truss (fuselage side) is constructed, and it's time to skin it with plywood, glue the plywood to the side that was facing DOWN. When you miter your verticals and gussets you try your best to make the joints perfect on the side you can see, but what happens to the side facing the table that you can't see? Since you can't see it while you're fitting and glueing, the joints won't be as tight on the down side, so cover THAT side with skin to both strengthen it and hide it. I didn't have the good sense to do this, so the joints that you see inside my boat are the joints on the worst looking side. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:15:35 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: Phoenix bound gang > >Okay guys, > >Heard from Don Ball last night, he made it into town okay and is anxious to >hook up with some KR Netters/builders. I am going to see if I need to >reserve any space at the Deer Valley airport restaraunt for either the >evening of the 27th (I have to work during the day) or the afternoon of the >28th. If anyone has any objections let me know. If you want to get a hold >of Don he is at 602-872-7264 and if you want to contact me I am at >602-416-2158.....Troy > >************************************************************* > >If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! > >Troy A. Johnson >WYLE Electronics >1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North >Phoenix, AZ 85034 >(602)-495-9953 >(602)-416-2158 (direct) > >************************************************************* Troy, whatever we do it will have to be Saturday for me. We have a Graduation party to attend on Sunday the 28th. I'm keeping my wife at bay by a thin thread on this gettogether already because of the limited time frame that we are in AZ and all the people we try to connect with. We are potentially in conflict on the evening of the 27th as this is one of the dates we offered to meet one of my wifes retired colleagues for dinner but it is not in stone as of yet and I'm trying to push another date. I'v been to the resturant at Deer Vally only once and that was some years ago. Why not give them a buzz and ask if they are equipped for a late snack for a small group? Ross dropped a note saying he was heading back to Oregon on the 26th so he won't be stopping in.(If he calls you, twist him a little about the weather in OR and how a couple more days in AZ would be good for him!) Looking forward to meeting you guys! John Roffey > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:35:23 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: NLF update >Just received the precision machined 4130 steel spars from John Roffey >for the wind tunnel wing. Wow John, if you are building your plane as >nice and as strong as the shipping crate for the spars you are going to >have one nice airplane. The work on the spars is beautiful machine >work. THis keeps getting "much more funner" all the time. > >I am still amaized, we were able to get over $1000 committed in less than >24 hours and when we needed precision machined spars - one post to KRNet >and john was working on them. > >Thanks all, > >Steve Eberhart >Thanks Steve. I don't have the bill for the tude in front of me right now, but the number 57 comes to mind. Please consider this my contribution to the fund for the project. (each thread took about 2 hours to cut and I had to make a small boring bar for the .75 tube so my employer has a few buck in the pot too) The stubs are 4142,and its a 20TPI pitch. I hope they suit your needs. John > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:04:55 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: boat skinning tip >KRBoatHeads, > >A tidbit of totally unsolicited advice on boat construction: after a truss >(fuselage side) is constructed, and it's time to skin it with plywood, glue >the plywood to the side that was facing DOWN. When you miter your >verticals and gussets you try your best to make the joints perfect on the >side you can see, but what happens to the side facing the table that you >can't see? Since you can't see it while you're fitting and glueing, the >joints won't be as tight on the down side, so cover THAT side with skin to >both strengthen it and hide it. I didn't have the good sense to do this, >so the joints that you see inside my boat are the joints on the worst >looking side. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford While most of my gussets look fine to great on the side that is down, there is another reason to do as you say, and that is that there can be minute variations in the thickness's of the 5/8' spruce and the wood considered as a plane (no pun intended,couldn't be avoided!) will all generally be flat on the down side of the side because of the flat table top. The top pieces may require excessive gap filling from the epoxy otherwise as they may be kind of unlevel. This would be for people like me who got spruce back when 5/8" meant anything from 9/16 to 11/16 to Aircraft Spruce. ;) Probably more like a 1/32 inch difference among dimensions, but a pain. Because of this problem plus pieces cut in a parallelogram in cross section I had to make my gussets fit in three axis sometime instead of the normal two! Some replacement spruce they gave me (20') is generally perfect. But that was too late for most of what I built. Their quality control 3 years ago wasn't very good, but seems to be back up to snuff pretty much. I would still order from Wicks though if time permits, or I was getting a new spruce kit for a KR or GP-4. Or a kite. ;) Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:14:13 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: KR: KRnet postings Sorry to take up space on this subject, but after wading through another 75 postings (I missed a couple days), I've concluded that some of us (and the newbies) need reminding, again, that this is NOT a chat site. I suppose it's easier to hit the reply button for those quick personal comebacks, like "I agree with you, Sam", etc. , but boy is it annoying having to plow through all that stuff to get to the more pertinent KR related posts. If someone is still archiving only the good stuff, I'll bet it's been a pain doing the editing. Thanks! Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 06:22:01 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Perrykosh Video I got mine yesterday. Very, very good... lots of flybys... lots of down-home Okie hospitality there. I hafta say- Jeff Scott's KR is the coolest. I really like the low-profile, sleek canopy. Looks like the cockpit is deeper, though- maybe has something built up on the top longerons to make it look that way, cuz Jeff's not small, and I didn't see his head bumping even that low-looking canopy. You absolutely, positively have to see the part where Marty takes the cameraman up for a ride. Notice Marty's hands on the controls; although he holds the stick quite firmly (looked like a lot of turbulence and wind), the throttle hand is just tickling that O-200 all the way. Must have been a blast, since the closing credits in the video say "thanks for the ride of a lifetime". Bobby Muse's rig must be one really sharp and sanitary installation, since he seems to take home the awards for that. The one you really have to wonder about is the kerosene-burner; has it ever flown? It was never shown with the cowling on, either, making me wonder just how l-o-n-g it really is from tailpost to spinner. The Dawn Patrol and Hummel Bird footage are good, and add interest. There is one place you can fast-forward... the gratuitous Lancair footage. ;o) Well, enough dreaming and sales pitch- just buy the video and sit back for a couple hours. (Yeah, Randy- I'll tell 'em): be sure to mention KRNet when you order, and Video Bob will give Randy and Ross a kickback to keep the Net rolling and Ross's hot tub perking. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:52:02 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: NLF update On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, jeroffey wrote: > >Just received the precision machined 4130 steel spars from John Roffey > >for the wind tunnel wing. Wow John, if you are building your plane as > >nice and as strong as the shipping crate for the spars you are going to > >have one nice airplane. The work on the spars is beautiful machine > >work. THis keeps getting "much more funner" all the time. > > > >I am still amaized, we were able to get over $1000 committed in less than > >24 hours and when we needed precision machined spars - one post to KRNet > >and john was working on them. > > > >Thanks all, > > > >Steve Eberhart > >Thanks Steve. I don't have the bill for the tude in front of me right now, > but the number 57 comes to mind. Please consider this my contribution to the > fund for the project. (each thread took about 2 hours to cut and I had to > make a small boring bar for the .75 tube so my employer has a few buck in > the pot too) The stubs are 4142,and its a 20TPI pitch. I hope they suit your > needs. > John > > > I knew we had to be looking at a lot of expense and time when I saw the spars. Needliee to say I have you at the top of the good guys contribution list. Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:55:26 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Brake pedals Hi gang, Time for another "consensus check". When mounting the Brake pedals I have two options for geometry. option 1: Mount the base of the master cylinders on or near the hinge for the rudder pedals. option 2: Mount the bases of the master cylinders behind the hinges as far as the arm for depressing the cylinders is behind the pedal. Option 1 has the angle of the brake pedals change with the angle of the rudder pedals. This is good if I keep my heels on the floor and steer with my toes. It does make it a little harder to push the brake pedals even further over to get brake action. Option 2 works like a parallel arm linkage. Good if I move my whole foot for rudder action and it's easier to apply brakes, but it potentially allows more accidental brake action . I suppose I will quickly get used to it either way but what's more ergonomically correct? Whats preferred? What do MOST aircraft use? Just thinking ahead a little, - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:05:29 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Brake pedals At 08:55 AM 12/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >I suppose I will quickly get used to it either way but what's more >ergonomically correct? Whats preferred? What do MOST aircraft use? > >Just thinking ahead a little, >-Peter Hudson- > You know I could talk about this on the net until I turn blue but your gona find (like me and a few others did) that you will have to play with your pedals until its right! I think the ideal setup is to have the all pivot point equidistant and parallel from each other. At least it s a good starting point, I had it all worked out in my head but had to make minor adjustments to the lower brake mounting point. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:52:47 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Brake pedals Peter Hudson wrote: > > Hi gang, > > Time for another "consensus check". When mounting the Brake pedals I > have two options for geometry. > > option 1: Mount the base of the master cylinders on or near the hinge > for the rudder pedals. > > option 2: Mount the bases of the master cylinders behind the hinges as > far as the arm for depressing the cylinders is behind the pedal. > -Peter Hudson- I used option 1 so that the braking action will be more deliberate and less as a result of moving the rudder. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:19:25 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Brake pedals Peter Hudson wrote: > > Hi gang, > > Time for another "consensus check". When mounting the Brake pedals I > have two options for geometry. > > option 1: Mount the base of the master cylinders on or near the hinge > for the rudder pedals. > > option 2: Mount the bases of the master cylinders behind the hinges as > far as the arm for depressing the cylinders is behind the pedal. > > Option 1 has the angle of the brake pedals change with the angle of the > rudder pedals. This is good if I keep my heels on the floor and steer > with my toes. It does make it a little harder to push the brake pedals > even further over to get brake action. > > Option 2 works like a parallel arm linkage. Good if I move my whole > foot for rudder action and it's easier to apply brakes, but it > potentially allows more accidental brake action . > > I suppose I will quickly get used to it either way but what's more > ergonomically correct? Whats preferred? What do MOST aircraft use? > > Just thinking ahead a little, > -Peter Hudson- I would like to use the Great Plains brake cylinders laying horizontally on the floor as heel brakes. Anyone heard of this? - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:48:12 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Pitch Sensitivity/Antiservo Tab At 15:51 12/19/97 -0500, Tom Anderson wrote: >I've got an idea to use the trim tab as a mini antiservo tab as >well. ... > Using 1/16" pull-pull cables on the trim tab,(similar to the >elevator horn), CROSS the cables THROUGH the elevator section, and mount >the cable tubes slightly above and slightly below the rear stab spar ON >THE STAB. This seemed like a promising idea - a little lighter than the rod actuated anti-servo tab idea like I think you can see on Mike Mimms 'ideas' web-page. But it seems to have a problem. Geometry won't let you have fixed cable lengths as the elevator and tab turn to different angles ( else they'd get tight or loose, depending.) So then you think about a spring for one of the cables - and a spring to a flutter-prone surface is a bad idea .... brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:28:53 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: heel brakes Tom Anderson wrote: > I would like to use the Great Plains brake cylinders laying horizontally > on the floor as heel brakes. Anyone heard of this? Troy Petteway uses them, and swears by them. No unintentional braking possible. Also, I mounted my brake cylinders about half way between parallel and on the axis (option 1.50). There is also some variable geometry available in how long your cylinder is adjusted to be. Trial and error with a shoe and several mockups with various pedal configurations finally yielded a system with which it is impossible to accidently brake. Since we as builders have the opportunity to do the trail and error thing with our own feet, I don't know how somebody could not realize that their geometry was screwed up before test flights. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:48:29 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Brake pedals Okay, So that's: 1 vote for option 2, 1 vote for option 1, one vote for right in between option 1 and 2, and a vote for heel brakes. Got it, I guess I'll have to set up a temporary mount and sit in the fuselage making skidding noises for a change. - -Peter- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:53:53 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Improved KR - Fodder for tought In a message dated 97-12-19 23:09:37 EST, Tom wrote: << Randy If you noticed I disapeared each night early to put 2 curtain climbers to bed. I sure didn't find any area 51. >> Tom: There was an actual "Area 51" with a sort of KR in it. The plane was pulled out on Saturday for all to see. Had some interesting ideas on it, but it looked a bit heavy for the 1835 that was hung on the nose. We'll see. As far as other Area 51 talk goes, well...the powers that be have decided to hold up any further gossip material until proof and facts are at hand to support the talk...no brag allowed. Randy PS - Happy holidays to everyone...I'm out of town until 12/28/97, so enjoy a smooth running KRNet...It should be at least, since I'm not around to muck it up ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:08:22 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: Progress Report and one question Just a quick progress report. I have installed the center spars in the boat, attached the main gear legs, wheels & brakes. I finished and installed the brackets for the aileron controls and pulleys. I added a couple of pulleys to route the aileron cable around the main gear legs. Most important, I glued the plywood wing templates to the center spars so now I can actually see the outline of the shape of the wing to be. It's pretty neat. Now it is no longer just a boat, and I can actually see that it is slowly starting to look like an airplane. I am working on all of the metal fittings. I do not like working with metal but as I get each fitting finished they look pretty cool. ONE QUESTION: The plans show the control stick with a square piece between the angle brackets that the stick bolts to and pivots on. It is unclear what kind of bearings are used in this square tubing. Is there another way of doing this. It seems like I could just use a bolt inside a round tube and it would be easier and simpler to make. Although I may need to devise a way to put a bolt through the side to hang the stick with??? Anyone done this any different then the plans?? Or know a better way. Thanks Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:01:36 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Progress Report and one question At 09:08 AM 12/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >> Anyone done this any different then the plans?? Or know a better way. Thanks > >Marvin McCoy > Yea I bought a control stick from RR, I don't remember how much it cost but it was cheep considering the labor involved. It a nice unit! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:05:25 -0500 From: haroldp Subject: Re: KR: Limbach Hi there ! I have a KR-2 (CGKAV) up here in cold Montreal, Canada and it is also powered by a Limbach L2000 EO1, 80 hp engine. I am fortunate to have the engine Specs,diagrams, Tech bulletins and Maintenance Instructions. And, as requested, the US Address for Limbach is : Limbach Aircraft Engines c/o Post Office Box 1201 Tulsa , OK, 74101 (918) 245-6910 I hope this will help Happy Holidays!! Rgds Harold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:08:26 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Limbach At 03:05 PM 12/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hi there ! > >I have a KR-2 (CGKAV) up here in cold Montreal, Canada and it is also >powered by a Limbach L2000 EO1, 80 hp engine. What is the performance like with the Limbach? There has always been a general consensuses that Limbach was a little generous with their HP claims. What do you think? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:04:06 -0500 From: haroldp Subject: Re: KR: Limbach Michael, I just bought the plane and had to replace my brake pads and I have yet to install a new canopy-lock mechanism. To tell you the truth, it is very (VERY) cold right now and I am hoping to hit a milder day next week to finish that up and get airborne. The previous owner tested the speed with a GPS and hit 150 MPH cruise. The plane is a tri-gear (yes I read---your comments on KR-net) and I was able to pick it up at a great price. I had previously built a Velocity and, 23 months into construction and 4 mounths prior to completion, fell victim to arson by 3 local minors.---What a tragedy !! I will gladly supply performance figures when I have them available.. Are there many Limbachs in KR-2' s ?? If not why ?? Harold Micheal Mims wrote: > At 03:05 PM 12/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi there ! > > > >I have a KR-2 (CGKAV) up here in cold Montreal, Canada and it is also > >powered by a Limbach L2000 EO1, 80 hp engine. > > What is the performance like with the Limbach? There has always been a > general consensuses that Limbach was a little generous with their HP claims. > What do you think? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Happy Holidays to Everyone! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:33:33 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Limbach At 06:04 PM 12/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >The plane is a tri-gear (yes I read---your comments on KR-net) and I was able to pick it up at a great price. > Gee most of my comments on tri-geared KRs are jokingly submitted! I hope no-one is taking them seriously, Oscar and I just like give tri-geared builders a hard time. There is nothing wrong with putting the tail wheel in the front of the airplane, heck almost everyone does it now! It will be interesting to see your numbers after you get used to your new bird. 80hp seems like a lot from only 2000cc's! Sorry to hear about your first project. I too started a project before the KR but it fell victim to another kind of fire! The great bonfire known as DIVORCE! :o) Thanks for the reply and good luck with your new toy! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:58:56 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: KR Projects FS From the 2nd Dec 97 Trade a Plane: 1) KR2, 60% complete, $2500, 309-523-2118 nights before 9:30 central (Opinion: This could easily be only 45% complete so that the purchaser complies with the 51% rule to get the repairman certificate) 2) KR2S, boat, tailfeather, new gear retract design, turtle back, canopy $2500, 805-873-7675 Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:50:01 -0800 From: hjfine@wave.net Subject: Re: KR: KR Projects FS At 04:58 PM 12/21/97 -0700, you wrote: >>From the 2nd Dec 97 Trade a Plane: > >1) KR2, 60% complete, $2500, 309-523-2118 nights before 9:30 central > >(Opinion: This could easily be only 45% complete so that the purchaser >complies with the 51% rule to get the repairman certificate) > >2) KR2S, boat, tailfeather, new gear retract design, turtle back, canopy >$2500, 805-873-7675 > >Ron Lee >Regards #2. >Ron and Netters: How long has the Kr2S been in production? Is the "new gear design" an improvement over the older one and would it be possible to convert this one to fixed gear conventional? Thanks. Hank Feinberg in the beautiful, snow covered southern Oregon Cascades one mile from Pinehurst State Airport. Elev. 3650' MSL. The Lord Jesus Christ, the reason for the Season. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:02:29 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Retract Gear >>2) KR2S, boat, tailfeather, new gear retract design, turtle back, canopy >>$2500, 805-873-7675 >>Ron and Netters: How long has the Kr2S been in production? Is the "new >gear design" an improvement over the older one and would it be possible to >convert this one to fixed gear conventional? Thanks. Hank Feinberg in the >beautiful, snow covered southern Oregon Cascades one mile from Pinehurst >State Airport. Elev. 3650' MSL. The Lord Jesus Christ, the reason for the >Season. > Seems to me that the -2S is just a few (maybe two) years old. I suspect that the retract gear has been abandoned by most people. It is possible that the fixed gear version may be about as fast due to a cleaner undercarriage and less weight of the retract mechanism. My thoughts would be to take out the retract gear and install Dan Diehl fixed gear Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:40:31 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Quiet Mods > I have always thought I'd like my plane to have quiet >mods of any type I can, since my ears have heard too many .357s and such >over the years, and my hearing is going south. There's a fascinating design in one of Tony Bingelis's engine books for a muffler, required in Switzerland and some other countries, that reduces exhaust noice on a plane to virtually nothing It's a large aluminum tube with a smaller tube of rolled-up hardware cloth inside and the space between them packed with rolled fiberglass. This would be a good companion to a low-noise prop. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:48:40 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Subaru DD Hub Hey if some of you are considering the DD Subaru you should check out the pictures at: ftp://ftp.pilgrimhouse.com/pub/DropBox/PSRUs%26Hubs/ and yes the url is case sensitive. You can get one of these units from: Tony Stiles SAE 1 prop hub; pusher or tractor. contact: Ed Alderfer @ Whirlwing Rotorcraft (513) 844-2857 Alodyned aluminum hub, $195. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:17:20 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Subaru DD Hub And if you have trouble getting to the ftp site you can see the hub at my engine site, URL below. http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/engine.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:24:36 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Progress Report and one question > ONE QUESTION: The plans show the control stick with a square >piece between the angle brackets that the stick bolts to and pivots on. > It is unclear what kind of bearings are used in this square tubing. Is >there another way of doing this. It seems like I could just use a bolt >inside a round tube and it would be easier and simpler to make. >Although I may need to devise a way to put a bolt through the side to >hang the stick with??? Anyone done this any different then the plans?? > Or know a better way. Thanks The old Newsletters show half a dozen different designs for single and dual sticks, including one neat single stick system that used a castoring shopping cart wheel for the entire mechanism. It looks like RR just adapted one of the designs that looked good, and it's not written in stone. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:34:38 EST From: Kr2dream Subject: Re: KR: Retract Gear When I bought my KR-2S "kit" one year ago I was told by Jeanette that the retract gear was not offered as an option with the 2S as it wasn't sufficiently strong for the 2S. None of their ads show retracts. I suspect the "new design" is non-RR. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:58:54 -0600 From: cwcrane@airmail.net (CW Crane) Subject: Re: KR: Quiet Mods On Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:40:31 EST, you wrote: >> I have always thought I'd like my plane to have quiet >>mods of any type I can, since my ears have heard too many .357s and such >>over the years, and my hearing is going south. > >There's a fascinating design in one of Tony Bingelis's engine books for a >muffler, required in Switzerland and some other countries, that reduces >exhaust noice on a plane to virtually nothing It's a large aluminum tube with >a smaller tube of rolled-up hardware cloth inside and the space between them >packed with rolled fiberglass. This would be a good companion to a low-noise >prop. > >Mike Taglieri > In the old days we called them "glass packs". Now it is fairly standard fare on aftermarket exhaust systems for motorcycles. Sounds like a really good idea though if the need ever arises. It shouldn't weigh very much. CW Crane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 15:44:00 GMT From: "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" Subject: KR: Limbach engines for KR? There have been a few posts about the Limbach engine on the list and I hope that the following notes help someone out there in cyberspace. I have no commercial or other connection with Limbach. I am an English homebuilder and an invited member of the KR list. My Limbach L2000 powered 2 seat Jodel D18 has done 480 hrs in just 30 months - including a long flight to North Cape in the Norwegian bit of the Arctic Circle. The L2000 is a 2 litre engine using machined VW cases, Porsche pistons etc and Limbach proprietary castings (they wont sell you the bits to build your own engine though). It is claimed to produce 80 hp at 3,400 rpm max for no more than 5 mins (and I believe that this is now accurate due to better recent quality control) and 70 hp continuous at no more than 3,000 rpm. My L2000 Eo2X has only ONE magneto. It is approved for PFA permit a/c (like US experimental category) that conform to the JAR VLA - the Very Light Aircraft regulations of the new European Joint Aircraft Requirements that are set to supersede the national requirements of the UK, France, Germany etc. These engine regs do NOT stipulate mandatory dual ignition. VLA have no more than 2 seats, a stalling speed below 45 kts and a MAUW that I forget! (my 1012 lbs Jodel qualifies and so would a KR provided you could prove that the stalling speed actually was lower than 45 kts - and not just an ASI of 45 kts). There is a 2 magneto version. Its VERY much more expensive (special castings needed etc) and produces slightly less power (turning a magneto absorbs measurable hp and the combustion chamber is designed for one mag) The VW cases have an added through stud to stop the central bearing working loose. The heads are OK PROVIDED you run the engine cool enough. My experience suggests practical maximums of 200C in climb and 175C in cruise. This is hard to achieve and took me 18 months of development effort. Limbach sell great shell baffles stamped on a rubber press and no one should try to use a Limbach without also using these baffles, in my opinion, even though Limbach charge an arm and a leg for them. Choosing an engine is a nightmare. You want a reliable, really reliable, engine. That usually means waiting a few years to let some other poor souls do the cutting edge development flying. From this perspective the Limbach engine, which has been in production for 15 years, must be a front runner as here in the UK its solid value for money being priced less than the 912 or Jabiru engines. But you also want to take advantage of modern IC technology and quality controls and all this points in the direction of Subaru car or BMW bike engines on a limited budget, or the 912 or Jabiru aircraft engines. In summary, the L2000 deserves a place on anyone's short list of 80 hp engines. Incidentally, propeller matching is EXTTREMELY important for any engine and airframe combination. So a well matched combination will outperform a badly matched combination even when the latter involves a more powerful engine. Fixed pitch props are the only realistic budget choice but a fortune awaits those who first produce a budget priced and SAFE variable pitch prop that can match the very wide speed range of a/c with KR performance ie cruising at say three times the stalling speed or two times the climbing speed. Hope this helps Richard R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:54:36 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: Progress Report and one question marvin asked a ? on the control stick, about a bearing to use in the sq. steel mount but all the answers seem to go around the ?. does anyone have the proper answer or a number for the bearing or a drawing for a stick that is better shown in the plans. i looked at marvins plans the other day and there is not a whole lot on it as everyone knows.now marvin is not a pilot yet and either am i and so we are like newbe's and this has us baffeled some what, can anyone help on this? thanks a whole bunch. tandem2 ps. marvin is doing a fine job on his kr and its lookin good. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:22:26 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Limbach engines for KR? Hi Richard, I have been following Europa's BMW Boxxer efforts. If it works out it is my engine of choice at this time, but like Mike Mimms - this is the engine choice of the week :-) Was looking through back issues of Kitplanes and saw the pictures of your G-TREK - beautiful looking Jodel but the picture of you in the cockpit only shows your hat. I am getting together pictures of all of the NLF contributors with their projects. Will use the color picture og G-TREK until I get something else - love the registration number!!! Steve On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, R.H.Mole -Richard Mole wrote: > > There have been a few posts about the Limbach engine on the list and I hope > that the following notes help someone out there in cyberspace. I have no > commercial or other connection with Limbach. > > I am an English homebuilder and an invited member of the KR list. My Limbach > L2000 powered 2 seat Jodel D18 has done 480 hrs in just 30 months - > including a long flight to North Cape in the Norwegian bit of the Arctic > Circle. > > The L2000 is a 2 litre engine using machined VW cases, Porsche pistons etc > and Limbach proprietary castings (they wont sell you the bits to build your > own engine though). It is claimed to produce 80 hp at 3,400 rpm max for no > more than 5 mins (and I believe that this is now accurate due to better > recent quality control) and 70 hp continuous at no more than 3,000 rpm. > > My L2000 Eo2X has only ONE magneto. It is approved for PFA permit a/c (like > US experimental category) that conform to the JAR VLA - the Very Light > Aircraft regulations of the new European Joint Aircraft Requirements that > are set to supersede the national requirements of the UK, France, Germany > etc. These engine regs do NOT stipulate mandatory dual ignition. > > VLA have no more than 2 seats, a stalling speed below 45 kts and a MAUW that > I forget! (my 1012 lbs Jodel qualifies and so would a KR provided you could > prove that the stalling speed actually was lower than 45 kts - and not just > an ASI of 45 kts). > > There is a 2 magneto version. Its VERY much more expensive (special castings > needed etc) and produces slightly less power (turning a magneto absorbs > measurable hp and the combustion chamber is designed for one mag) > > The VW cases have an added through stud to stop the central bearing working > loose. The heads are OK PROVIDED you run the engine cool enough. My > experience suggests practical maximums of 200C in climb and 175C in cruise. > This is hard to achieve and took me 18 months of development effort. Limbach > sell great shell baffles stamped on a rubber press and no one should try to > use a Limbach without also using these baffles, in my opinion, even though > Limbach charge an arm and a leg for them. > > Choosing an engine is a nightmare. You want a reliable, really reliable, > engine. That usually means waiting a few years to let some other poor souls > do the cutting edge development flying. From this perspective the Limbach > engine, which has been in production for 15 years, must be a front runner as > here in the UK its solid value for money being priced less than the 912 or > Jabiru engines. But you also want to take advantage of modern IC technology > and quality controls and all this points in the direction of Subaru car or > BMW bike engines on a limited budget, or the 912 or Jabiru aircraft engines. > > In summary, the L2000 deserves a place on anyone's short list of 80 hp > engines. > > Incidentally, propeller matching is EXTTREMELY important for any engine and > airframe combination. So a well matched combination will outperform a badly > matched combination even when the latter involves a more powerful engine. > Fixed pitch props are the only realistic budget choice but a fortune awaits > those who first produce a budget priced and SAFE variable pitch prop that > can match the very wide speed range of a/c with KR performance ie cruising > at say three times the stalling speed or two times the climbing speed. > > > Hope this helps > > Richard > R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk > ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #197 *****************************