From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 1997 10:31 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #199 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, December 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 199 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:10:51 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: "Banana Boat" question At 02:23 12/23/97 EST, you wrote: >... So I'm wondering, has anyone ever tried soaking the >plywood before forming the boat to help it bend easier? That might develop a >surface without so much strain and result in a flat(ter) banana. ... >Mike Taglieri > > Passing on a tip from r.a.h it seems that if you soak wood overnight in ammonia water - it comes out like rubber til it dries again. Disclaimers: 1) Never done this myself 2) Don't think you need to do it on the KR Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:14:39 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re Limbach engines At 10:24 12/23/97 GMT, you wrote: >... >In all humility, > >Richard > > Humility...humility? I'm sure I've come across that behavior somewhere, not sure where. Can you explain? :-) Merry Christmas brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:36:30 -0500 From: "Robert M. Simon" Subject: KR: Fiberglas layup test To: All you helpful sorts on KRNET Before initiating the construction of a KR2S I'd like to try a few simple forms of glass layup over foam. Where might I buy and what should I buy the raw materials, e.g. fabric and epoxy? Robert M. Simon rms@ustek-inc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:06:19 -0800 From: David Moore Subject: Re: KR:(free stuff) Hey Patrick, I was just about to order a new catalog, and you are right about Vogelsong. What a great xmas present. Thank You so Much, Merry Christmas to All Dave Moore At 10:11 AM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >I discovered that you can get a *free*(that's right - save your $5) AS&S >catalog from the AS&S web site at: > >http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/spruce/pages.cgi/catalog_order > >Mine came in about a week. > >Also, I called Dillsburg Aeroplane Works to find out how much to send >for their price list. They took my name and address over the phone and >I had my list in two days(their ad in Sport Aviation says send SASE). >If you're not familiar with Dillsburg, they're a great place to order >hardware. Supposedly have the best price on tubing and sheet metal(over >1,000,000 lineal feet of tubing in stock), although in the quantities >required for a KR, you won't save much. The list is well worth the >phone call. It's a family operation and the owner, Charles Vogelsong, >will likely answer the phone by only saying "Vogelsong", so be prepared >for that. Then he'll probably hand you off to his daughter to take >your name and address. Oh yea, the phone number - (717) 432-4589. > >Merry Christmas to all... >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > > David Moore Turnkey1@MSComm.Com Hesperia, Calif. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:15:57 -0500 From: mscott@wlgore.com Subject: Re: KR: "Banana Boat" question FWIW, I have used the wood soaking method on RC aircraft in the past, it does help. The wood was balsa sheet, and was soaked in hot ammonia water until it was pliable enough to wrap around a turtledeck framework. Glue was applied as usual, followed by the wood planking, then rubber banded, clamped, etc. to hold it in place til it dried. The practicalities of doing this on a full scale plane might make the operation a little more difficult, obviously. Mark Scott Vision wannabe builder Elkton, MD USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:12:14 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR: Prop Maker Phone Numbers At 11:57 AM 12/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 08:45 12/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Does anyone have the phone numbers to the following handy? >> >>Ed Sterba >>Aymar Demuth >>Ray Heggy >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Micheal Mims >>Happy Holidays to all!!! >> The first two, I think, are in any Sport Aviation issue. Not sure about Ray's, but probably there too. Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:22:41 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Prop Maker Phone Numbers brian whatcott wrote: > > At 08:45 12/23/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have the phone numbers to the following handy? > > > >Ed Sterba > >Aymar Demuth > >Ray Heggy > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Happy Holidays to all!!! > > > > Those names are so rare - I wanna bet that when I come home from work I can > find them from www.switchboard.com or suchlike.. > > Regards > > brian whatcott > Altus OK I have a friend who bought a Hegy prop and is not satisfied with it. His son took over the business and is still in his learning curve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:50:58 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Improved KR - Fodder for tought Randy, Who was the guy at Perry with the all composite KR2? Would like to take to him. Rich McCall Junction City, KS BSHADR wrote: > In a message dated 97-12-19 23:09:37 EST, Tom wrote: > > << Randy > If you noticed I disapeared each night early to put 2 curtain climbers > to bed. I sure didn't find any area 51. >> > > Tom: > > There was an actual "Area 51" with a sort of KR in it. The plane was pulled > out on Saturday for all to see. Had some interesting ideas on it, but it > looked a bit heavy for the 1835 that was hung on the nose. We'll see. > > As far as other Area 51 talk goes, well...the powers that be have decided to > hold up any further gossip material until proof and facts are at hand to > support the talk...no brag allowed. > > Randy > > PS - Happy holidays to everyone...I'm out of town until 12/28/97, so enjoy a > smooth running KRNet...It should be at least, since I'm not around to muck it > up ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:33:04 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR:British help needed Hi Richard, Will do the exchange with you for the plans if you would like. Send me your address. Spent some time in Great Brittain several yeasr ago, when I worked in Germany. Brought my Piper over and flew it around Europe; sold it before I left. Really enjoyed flying in Europe, although it was different than flying here. I rotated out of Luxemborg for coffee runs. Saw some interesting Russian planes there. My wife is German with relatives in Karlsruhe, so we try to make the trip back every few years. Richard "haven't finished my KR2S stubs yet" McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction City, KS USA 66441 R.H.Mole -Richard Mole wrote: > I happen to have a spare set of Taylor Titch drawings looking for a good > home. They are old but readable. The Titch was the follow up design by John > Taylor of his earlier Taylor Monoplane. They are pretty similar; the Mono is > > a docile VW powered design and the Titch is usually fitted with 90 or 100 hp > > Continentals and was produced in a design competition for a low cost racing > aircraft. > > I am desperately keen to get a copy of Bruce Carmichael's Book ' Personal > Aircraft Drag reduction' published by Bruce at 34795 Camino Capisteano, > Capistrano Beach, Ca 92624 at a cost of $25 US bucks. > > I would be more than happy to do a straight exchange. Whatd'ya say Oscar? If > > you want to do a deal let me know your home address for posting > > Richard Mole > R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:15:33 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: VIDEO ALERT!!VIDEO ALERT!! Bob, I got the new tape and sent the bad one back to you. Many thanks for replacing the tape. Rich McCall Junction City, KS Bob Vermeulen wrote: > Hey KRNetters, > > We just discovered that about 4 or 5 KR Gathering videos got shipped out > that are bad quality. There will be a picture and sound, but its not good. > I think I know who got them, but I'm not absolutely sure. If you happen > to get one of these bad ones, please e-mail or call me. I'll get another > one out the door right away. Sorry this happened, we try to make them all > good. > > Bob Vermeulen > Omega Productions > 616-774-3913 > bvermeul@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:00:47 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: "Bananna Boat" question At 02:23 12/23/97 EST, you wrote: >I've read all the accounts about the reason for bananna boats and how to >prevent them with clamps, support jigs, special-design plans, etc. However, >it occurred to me awhile back that we skin the KR boat with aviation-grade >plywood that's basically the same stuff conventional wooden planes make >everything out of, including curved surfaces that are formed by bending after >steaming or soaking. So I'm wondering, has anyone ever tried soaking the >plywood before forming the boat to help it bend easier? That might develop a >surface without so much strain and result in a flat(ter) bananna. > >I was also wondering how this soaking could be done, and how much would be >needed. Presumably, you'd have to do all the soaking from the outside because >the inside couldn't get wet where the ribs were glued, so the results would be >uneven. Maybe the work table could be turned into a very shallow tray with a >layer of heavy plastic, and each side soaked in 1/4" or so of water? > >Mike Taglieri > > In my opinion, the banana boat syndrome is highly exagerated. If I recall correctly, when my fuselage was upside down on the table, I could only slip a 5/8 block of spruce under the highest point of the curve. I didn't put the skin on until the whole fuselage was framed, and this may have helped. I concentrated on keeping the firewall square (perpindicular) to the table. I used about 4 jigs and three plumb bobs during the cross bracing phase. (there is a picture of this on my web page) I have steamed white oak for boat ribs and it's amazing how much the wood will bend; almost like rubber. I suppose you could cover the whole frame with a tarp or something that would not melt and steam it. For me the result would not be worth the effort and risk. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:14:45 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: "Bananna Boat" question At 04:00 PM 12/23/97, you wrote: <> I think your gona find its just one of those personal preferences things. Some guys want square ships others like bananas, Mine is a Banana but you would never know it! To bad the side view plans don't incorporate the arch required to compensate for the "banana" but they don't and never will. If you don't want the funny shape get yourself a full size set of drawings before you start from one of our CAD guys, ask George Bell how nice they are! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to all!!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:30:28 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Fiberglas layup test At 01:36 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >To: All you helpful sorts on KRNET > >Before initiating the construction of a KR2S I'd like to try a few >simple forms of glass layup over foam. Where might I buy and what >should I buy the raw materials, e.g. fabric and epoxy? > >Robert M. Simon >rms@ustek-inc.com > I believe AS&S (maybe Wicks as well), has such a kit including Rutan's "textbook" on composite construction techniques. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:38:01 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Fiberglas layup test At 04:30 PM 12/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 01:36 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >>To: All you helpful sorts on KRNET >> >>Before initiating the construction of a KR2S I'd like to try a few >>simple forms of glass layup over foam. Where might I buy and what >>should I buy the raw materials, e.g. fabric and epoxy? >> >>Robert M. Simon >>rms@ustek-inc.com >> >>I believe AS&S (maybe Wicks as well), has such a kit including Rutan's >"textbook" on composite construction techniques. > >Ron Lee > It is the Composite materials practice kit. PN 01-15000 (about 57.95) with the manual. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:43:01 -0600 From: pierce@pat.lgb.cal.boeing.com (Cole Pierce) Subject: Re: KR: Fiberglas layup test > From: Ron Lee > Subject: Re: KR: Fiberglas layup test > > > >Before initiating the construction of a KR2S I'd like to try a few > >simple forms of glass layup over foam. Where might I buy and what > >should I buy the raw materials, e.g. fabric and epoxy? > > I went to a local (if you don't want to shop by mail) boat repair shop, got cloth and 2-part epoxy. Was going to do just what you are contemplating but a wind storm came up and scattered my purchases all over the county. Had leaves in my pool from trees that don't even grow in Texas. Decided to build a Sherman tank replica instead. - - gun one ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:04:50 EST From: JEHayward Subject: Re: KR: "Bananna Boat" question In a message dated 97-12-23 11:05:17 EST, you write: << I did not worry about it. I just skinned the boat after the frame work was all glued together. Then the plywood went on real easy. I still had a bananna boat but my fire wall is level and I have had no problems. Marvin McCoy >> Same here... some of the best advise I've had on building the -2S was about putting the plywood on AFTER doing the frame-up and forming the boat shape. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:21:41 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: Prop Maker Phone Numbers Mike I have a propeller made by Aymar-Demuth 8213 Elberta Dr. Ellicott Md. 21043 phone (410) 461-4329. This address and phone number is from about four years ago. I hope it helps. By the way, I am very pleased with the service and the performance of this prop. It is a 52 X 48 on my 1835 turbo charged VW and is back in the air again. Merry Christmas Parley Byington N54PB. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:34:01 -0800 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: "Bananna Boat" question Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 04:00 PM 12/23/97, you wrote: > <> > > I think your gona find its just one of those personal preferences things. > Some guys want square ships others like bananas, Mine is a Banana but you > would never know it! To bad the side view plans don't incorporate the arch > required to compensate for the "banana" but they don't and never will. > Micheal Mims I agree completely with the first statement that the problem is exagerated. However, I would have to say that the plans do address the curve in the top longeron, but only indirectly. The point I am trying to make is that the top longeron is layed out straight when building the sides, and then the sides are bent in such a way that a bow (bananna) is introduced. That bow is impossible to remove if the longeron starts out straight; therefore, the bow is expected. There is also mention of the need to place a spacer under the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer in order to make it level. This also implies to me that the bow is present since the spacer compensates for the very slight downward angle of the longeron at the tail. The bow is so slight that there is no reduction in theoretical strength. If you are building from scratch, you don't care about the bow. If you buy the pre-fab turtledeck, it either has enough flex to fit the bow, or more likely, the original plug was built on a bananna fuselage and the corresponding piece has the bow in it already. Just pick a horizontal (or vertical) reference and stick with it. As long as you are consistent with the reference, then everything will come out in agreement. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:54:19 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: Prop Maker Phone Numbers maybe you should have answered the ? about phone numbers in an e-mail tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:29:30 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Progress Report and one question ><< I liked your picture of the belly board brake. That looks like > it might work real good. Are you not going to use flaps? >> >We've had long discussions about the properties of flaps vs. belly boards and >there seems to be proponents on both sides of the fence. Given the relative >small size of flaps available on a KR and the fact that I'm not looking for >lift but only drag on final, I went with the belly board. . . . Given all this, >the belly board is a nice addition for not much work. Any chance you could put a photo on your web page of the activation mechanism of your bellyboard? From studying the various designs, this seems to be the tricky part, especially if you want your right hand on the stick. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:29:52 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Bananna Boat Hi all, Don't worry about it. As long as you keep the "up from the table" measurements at the bow even, you'll be OK. I agree with Marvin. Mine went together the same way and my firewall is plumb. BRGDS Marty Merry Christmas to all ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:58:50 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Fibreglass layups Hi there, If you are not experienced, find a local fibreglass supply (yellow pages) and get some foam and 6oz E glass cloth. (S glass will work as well). Get a representative small supply of the resin you hope to use and follow the directions on the can (s). If you need to buy a scale, do it. Play with it until you feel comfortable with the application and away you go. In the meantime, if you have any questions, do not be afraid to ask. Hope this helps, VBRGDS Marty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:57:04 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Prop Maker Phone Numbers Micheal Mims wrote: > > Does anyone have the phone numbers to the following handy? > > Ed Sterba > Aymar Demuth > Ray Heggy > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Happy Holidays to all!!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Ed Sterba- 412 S. 5th. St. Delavan, WI 53115 414-728-1367 Merry Christmas! Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:15:45 From: "Troy Johnson" Subject: Re: KR: Phoenix Meeting Hi John, Does six o'clock sound okay to you? There will be at least 3 of us, trying to locate a few more..Let me know if the time is okay..Troy At 07:22 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Hey Gang, >> >>All of you in Phoenix over the holidays, I can meet at Deer Valley airport >>restaurant mid-afternoon on Saturday or early afternoon on Sunday. They >>are open until 9pm both nights so if you would rather do dinner that can be >>handled as well. They have plenty of seating to handle a small group so no >>res. needed. Let me know...Troy >>************************************************************* >> >>If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! >> >>Troy A. Johnson >>WYLE Electronics >>1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North >>Phoenix, AZ 85034 >>(602)-495-9953 >>(602)-416-2158 (direct) >> >>************************************************************* >>Hi Troy, Saturday evening dinner sounds good to me. Any idea of how many of >us for sure? >John Roffey >jeroffey@tir.com >> >> >> >> > > ************************************************************* If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! Troy A. Johnson WYLE Electronics 1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North Phoenix, AZ 85034 (602)-495-9953 (602)-416-2158 (direct) ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:18:11 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Progress Report, Belly Board. In a message dated 97-12-23 22:44:58 EST, you write: << Any chance you could put a photo on your web page of the activation mechanism of your bellyboard? From studying the various designs, this seems to be the tricky part, especially if you want your right hand on the stick. Mike Taglieri >> Mike, There are a couple of different ways to achieve this. I plan on using a electrically activated servo mounted directly to a hydraulic cylinder. Obviously the "throw" required is directly related to the positioning of the pushrod on the bell crank. The servo I am working with is the same type I am using as my electrical elevator trim and appears to have enough foot pounds of force and enough throw to achieve what I want it too. I have not tried this "in the wind" yet but will do so sometime in the spring. I have not installed any of these parts in my airplane yet as it's still in the experimental stage right now. As food for thought I have designed this system using 4" X 4" L channel 6061 alum. with the hinge mounted at the angle and ALL components mounted to this channel, making it a self contained unit that you will simply drop in behind the rear spar leaving room for you elevator cables or any assembly you are using. It is really a very simple design, not nearly as complicated as it sounds and the weight should be minimal. I am not ready to post a picture of the design just yet, as it may turn out to be the proverbial DOG. If it works when we do the redneck wind tunnel testing (mounting it on a stand in the back of a truck) I'll post it. Merry Christmas Dana Overall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:31:46 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Brake system. Last week there was a lot a talk concerning braking systems. I finally found the picture I was looking for and got it posted on my webpage at the bottom of the construction page. Anyone who has looked at hydraulic braking systems knows that there are multitudes of ways to achieve the same thing. This system I built was "borrowed" from a vendor at Sun & Fun and is built using the hydraulic brake parts bought from Steve at Great Plains. My project has the top shelf rudder pedals. To keep from totally redoing this system, I build this. It mounts on the floor between the pedals making it neccessay for you to come of the rudder to use the brakes, I see no problem with this in a taildragger. If you do not enough room for your feet to come back this far, you can extend the pads rearward. I have also seen people use this as a hand operated unit on tri-gear planes. Merry Christmas to all, and may all your resin setup. Dana Overall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:45:01 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RC Servos? Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:15:28 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? In a message dated 97-12-24 13:43:35 EST, you write: << Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >> Mark, Sorry no suggestions on any alternative, I used the MAC servo and position indicator. You'll notice on my web page that the rocker switch and indicator are just above my throttle so I can trim without my hand ever leaving the throttle or the stick. I too looked at 1/4 scale RC servos and found out the same thing concerning voltage. I myself, probably like most of us, flew RC airplanes but I don't have much info other than I believe it would take at least a 1/4 scale size. Anybody got any numbers out there concerning the foot pounds on these servos. Dana Overall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:13:26 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Belly Board testing Dana wrote: >If it works when we do the redneck wind tunnel testing (mounting it on a >stand in the back of a truck) I'll post it. > Hey, Dana- Let's see: letting the KR down to pattern altitude at about 130-140 MPH, and dumping the belly board... how you gonna simulate that in your pickup? You have access to the track at Daytona? ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:12:34 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? >Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab >servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I >sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these >are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a >voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for >a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? Couldn't you just drop the voltage with a resistor? My motorcycle's former design [before I changed to electronic ignition] used 6-volt coils in a 12-volt system, supposedly for easier starting, and it corrected the voltage with a ballast resistor wired in series to the coils. This was a heavy, wire- wound porecelain thing on a special bracket for cooling because it had to dissipate a hell of a lot of power. For the piddly needs of an RC servo, you could get by with a Radio Shack power resistor. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:11:14 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: KR: (***LONG***) Prop Maker Phone Numbers (***LONG***) At 08:45 12/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have the phone numbers to the following handy? > >Ed Sterba >Aymar Demuth >Ray Heggy >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims I tried various ways to look them up - but I conclude the prop makers are not well-represented on the net. I compiled this list, and I'll put it out on the newsgroups too. But I will ask for more input - there are glaring gaps in coverage. ===================== ***NOTE NOTE NOTE *** ===================== If you don't use a fixed pitch font to look at the table it will be jumbled... ************************** Wood Prop Makers BW 12/97 ************************** Culver Props Inc Galeton PA 814-435-1077 fax 814-435-6523 Felix Props Camp Douglas WI 800-776-7357 IvoProp Bellflower CA 800-for-prop 562-602-1451 fax 562-602-1374 Prince aircraft Co Whitehouse OH 419-877-5557 fax 419-877-5564 Props Inc Newport OR 541-265-3032 Sensenich Ed Sterba Delavan WI 414-728-1367 US Propeller Stockton CA 800-749-prop 209-982-4565 Ray Heggy Mustang OK (doubtful address) 405-376-1551 Ted Headricksen (scimitars) Concrete WA - no phone LoPresti Synchropulse props no details Miller Aviation Propellers no details Aymar DeMuth no details ************** Prop Hub Data Adapted From / Acknowledgments To Sensenich ************** Engine HUB HUB HUB BOLT NO. HOLE Manufacturer DESIGNATION THICKNESS BORE CIRCLE HOLES DIA. VW Flange 2.000 4.000 6 5/16 or 3/8in SAE #1 Flange or Tapered 3.375 2.255 4.375 6 0.375 SAE #2 Flange 3.500 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 SAE #3 Flange 4.000 2.255 5.250 8 0.375 SAE #4 Flange 5.000 2.255 6.000 8 0.438 SAE 20 Spline 41G2325-9 6.000 3.880 7.000 8 0.438 SAE 20 Spline 41G2325-6 5.250 3.880 7.000 8 0.438 Aeronca Taper 805 2.500 1.755 5.000 6 0.375 Continental SAE #0 Taper A3482 3.250 2.255 4.000 6 0.375 Continental SAE #0 Taper A3746 3.375 2.255 4.375 6 0.375 Continental SAE #10 Spline A40611 4.000 2.755 5.250 8 0.375 Continental SAE #20 Spline A4064 6.000 3.151 6.693 8 0.500 Lycoming Flange 3.250 1.875 4.375 6 0.375 Lycoming Flange 3.500 1.875 4.750 6 0.375 Lycoming Flange 4.000 2.192 4.750 6 0.375 Lycoming Flange 4.000 2.192 5.250 8 0.375 Franklin Flange 3.250 2.005 4.000 6 0.375 Franklin Flange 4.000 2.005 4.000 6 0.375 Franklin Flange 4.000 2.005 5.000 8 0.375 Franklin Flange 4.000 2.005 5.000 8 0.438 Franklin Flange 4.000 8 Uneven spacing Funk Taper 14 4.000 2.380 4.688 6 0.375 Jacobs SAE #20 Spline 90205 6.000 3.817 6.693 8 0.641 Jacobs SAE #20 Spline 6.000 3.443 6.693 8 0.500 Kinner SAE #1 Taper 610 4.000 2.692 5.250 8 0.375 Kinner SAE #10 Spline 1475 4.000 3.255 5.250 8 0.375 Kinner SAE #10 Spline 1475 4.000 3.255 5.250 8 0.438 Kinner SAE #20 Spline 1609, 42K14179 4.000 4.130 6.250 8 0.438 Menasco Taper Shaft 2016A 4.000 2.692 5.250 8 0.375 Menasco Propeller Model W80R 4.375 2.949 5.250 8 0.375 Rearwin Leblond #1 Taper 05057 4.000 2.692 4.625 6 0.438 Warner SAE #20 Spline 7900, 8530, 8599 4.125 3.255 5.250 8 0.375 Warner SAE #20 Spline 8808, 43D24385 4.125 3.255 6.188 6 0.375 OX5 SAE #1 Taper 4.000 2.692 5.250 8 0.375 Adapter Z5M8,Z10M8,Z16M8 3.63 2.25 5.50 6 0.500 Flange SAE #1 Flange 3.75 2.255 4.375 6 0.375 Flange SAE #1 Flange 4.25 2.255 4.375 6 0.375 Flange SAE #1 Flange 4.500 2.255 4.375 6 0.375 Flange SAE #2 Flange 3.38 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 Flange SAE #2 Flange 3.75 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 Flange SAE #2 Flange 3.88 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 Flange SAE #2 Flange 4.25 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 Flange SAE #2 Flange 5.38 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 Y Adapter SAE #4 Flange 5.38 2.255 4.750 6 0.375 ARP-502 Flange 3.375 2.255 4.375 6 0.500 Flange SAE #6 Flange 3.630 2.255 4.750 6 0.500 Brian Whatcott 12/97 brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:07:51, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Belly Board testing Steve Trentman uses a boat trim actuator on the KR-2 Turbine. He has about a 12" long belly board with various size holes in the full width of the fuselage. If he doesn't use it he can't get the thing on the ground because of the idle thrust of the turbine. I plan to use an electric window motor from a compact car. It should have enough torque and the price was right ( free ). Keep us informed as to your test and size of your board. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:26:08 +0900 From: mouse@heiwa.com Subject: KR: RC Servos? KR>Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab KR>servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I KR>sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these KR>are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a KR>voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for KR>a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? KR>Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL KR>email at langford@hiwaay.net KR>KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford Looking at my latest copy of R/C Modeler Magazine there is an add from HobbyShack http://www.hobbyshack.com that shows a jumbo servo moel # CS-600 BB FET Jumbo Specs are: size 2.48" x 2.22" x 1.27" weight 5.22 oz. speed 0.28 sec/60 deg torque 249.97 oz-in. Price $44.99 With what I know about the R/C servo's, (I have been in the R/C hobby for about 20 years) they always have to be powered up and have a constant signal in order to maintain the desired position. There are three wires comming out of the servo, DC power + and -, and a signal wire which requires a controlling signal source in order to move the servo to the desired direction and position to hold it. That is no problem because there are servo controllers which are available for about $45.00. A voltage step down resister would also be needed because almost all of the servos on the market are designed to operate between 4.8 to 6 volts DC. There are a few which will operate on 12 volts DC, but the MAC system would be cheaper. The thing that one should keep in mind is that the R/C servo's must have to have a constant power source (IE battery direct wiring) to maintain its position. Remove the power and the servo loses its signal and voltage, it goes limp and will move freely with only the servo gear transmision friction holding the setting, and it isn't much. With power removed from the servo, the trim tab will move into the slip stream. I beleive with the MAC system it uses a screwjack/gear transmission which locks itself into set position and will maintain it when power is removed. I'm not an expert at this, and I'm sure there are ways to work around the known problems of using R/C servos. But I do know what happens to these servo's when the power control them and hold the desired position. They go limp and can move freely. My 2 bits worth of thoughts on the subject. Tim Schuy KR-2S builder in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:11:33 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? At 06:12 PM 12/24/97 EST, you wrote: >>Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab >>servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I >>sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these >>are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a >>voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for >>a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? > AS&S used to sell the voltage regulator just for this purpose, I don't know if they still do but Radio Shack would have what you need also. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Happy Holidays to Everyone! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:30:26 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: Phoenix Meeting >Hi John, > >Does six o'clock sound okay to you? There will be at least 3 of us, trying >to locate a few more..Let me know if the time is okay..Troy > > > > >At 07:22 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>Hey Gang, >>> >>>All of you in Phoenix over the holidays, I can meet at Deer Valley airport >>>restaurant mid-afternoon on Saturday or early afternoon on Sunday. They >>>are open until 9pm both nights so if you would rather do dinner that can be >>>handled as well. They have plenty of seating to handle a small group so no >>>res. needed. Let me know...Troy >>>************************************************************* >>> >>>If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! >>> >>>Troy A. Johnson >>>WYLE Electronics >>>1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North >>>Phoenix, AZ 85034 >>>(602)-495-9953 >>>(602)-416-2158 (direct) >>> >>>************************************************************* >>>Hi Troy, Saturday evening dinner sounds good to me. Any idea of how many of >>us for sure? >>John Roffey >>jeroffey@tir.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >************************************************************* > >If at first you don't succeed.....so much for skydiving! > >Troy A. Johnson >WYLE Electronics >1955 E. Sky Harbor Circle North >Phoenix, AZ 85034 >(602)-495-9953 >(602)-416-2158 (direct) > >************************************************************* >Troy, 6:00 is fine for me. I'll give you a call on the phone when we get in on friday to confirm that I'm there and I'll see you at the resturant on saturday evening. By for now and Merry Christmas to you. John > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:30:25 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: RC Servos? >Some of you RCModelHeads have been talking about using them for trim tab >servos. I decided to do the same and went looking for one. I'm sure I >sounded like an idiot at the RC shop, but the guy informed me that these >are all 4.6 to 6 volt servos. Do you guys plan to drop the voltage with a >voltage regulator or what? I sure like the $30 price better than that for >a MAC servo. Any other ideas (like position indicators) floating around? I think I'll reconsider what I said in my last post on this. Why power trim from the electrical system at all? I'd do it with batteries, like the systems in some of the old newsletters. That way you'd have a fully flyable plane if the electrical system failed (assuming you have a magneto). The 4.6 or 6 volt RC servos are obviously intended to work with 3 or 4 dry cells, which would add little weight and greatly simplify the system. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #199 *****************************