From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 1:53 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V1 #203 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, December 31 1997 Volume 01 : Number 203 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:30:25 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: wood soaking >Mike, I too agree, immersing would probably be impractical for the plywood >pieces on a KR. However, I think that's the only thing that would help. I >really doubt that just spraying one side of the ply is going to do much. I >just doubt that you'd get moisture penetration far enough into the ply to >make any difference. However, that does give me an idea. Howabout this, >soak up the steamin' hot mixture with some towels, lay them out on a flat >surface, then lay the plywood over this. Add more steamin' hot towels on >top and cover to keep some of the heat in. Let it stand for awhile, maybe >1/2 an hour. This might work, what do ya think? > I think there was a post on this sometime back, when the banana boat thing was whipped some more (I may have even been the one to raise the question). Somebody said that they had used the towel method while bending sides and tying together with x-members, and that the results were good to excellent. Gentle persuasion method. Oscar "I don't know nuthin'" Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:34:44 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Engine costs Here's something else for the engine-of-the-week, which I posted to the Airsoob list. It's sad. Yesterday in our local newspaper were two ads; one from the local Chevy dealer, another from a repair shop. Listed were prices for replacement Goodwrench engines... makes you wonder about what we pay for our little Subaru (or Jabiru, or Rotax, or CAM100, or Lyc, or Cont.) engines. Here are just two: - --New GM 350 V-8 engine; 36 mo./50,000 mile nationwide GM warranty; as low as $1,799 installed; includes new engine and labor. - --Engine special; new 454 fuel injected; GM 36 month/50,000 mile warranty; $2,550 parts and labor. Sigh. Happy New Year to one and all. Oscar Zuniga (planning a 454 injected Chevy KR-2S) [;o) Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:38:04 -0600 From: Robert.Johnson1@ipaper.com Subject: KR: rotary engines Dose anybody have a new address phone number for Duncan Aviation Engines. They were in Camanche Oklahoma they were reported to make rotary aircraft engines in the 60- 240 hp range. I read in book call Building and flying composite airplanes. Has anyone out there ever seen a kr2 with such an engine installed and flying. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:45:52 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: NLF(1)0115 On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > Just wondering why it takes $180 in carbon fiber to cover the wing > sectons? My plane has been holding up just fine with E glass and wood > spars. Jean N4DD > Dr. Selig specified the construction methods, techniques and materials. THere are two spars both 4130 steel tubing 1/8" wall, one 1 3/4" and one 1" in diameter. The skin needs to be a minimum of .060", eight layers of carbon fiber gives me a .080" thick skin with .020" extra that can be sanded off in the profiling phase of construction. It took all of a 10 yard roll to get the eight layers of carbon on the top and bottom. At $18 a yard you end up spending $180 real quick. The reason for the way overkill construction is that NO flutter can be tolerated what so ever and still get good engineering data. I just built it to his specifications. You can see it at http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html Steve Eberhart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:19:30 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Thanks to KRNET Supporters OK Folks.... I have set up a seperate KRNET savings account so I can stuff these $10 donations away until they are needed. Also this will keep me out of trouble with the IRS (Geez don't want to turn a profit!). If you want to send me a $10.00 check send it to: KRNET-L c/o Ross Youngblood 1109 NE Burke Pl Corvallis,OR 97330 I suppose I should put the address on my webpage.... actually I think a PO box would be more appropriate there, so maybe not. I won't start whining about donations in ernest until fall '98 (or the 98 gathering...). -- Ross Donald Reid wrote: > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > I just recieved an email from a KRNET-L supporter which > > reminded me that I have been delinquent in thanking > > those of you who have sent funds in to support KRNET-L. > > Ross, > > I just changed from a VERY antique 386 machine to a PentII and I lost > your address. For my benifit, and perhaps others as well, please send > it out again. I want to make the donation, the service is well worth > it. > > Thanks > > -- > Don Reid > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:25:00 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: NLF(1)0115 MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > Just wondering why it takes $180 in carbon fiber to cover the wing > sectons? My plane has been holding up just fine with E glass and wood > spars. Jean N4DD This brings up a good point.... what happens if a builder does a lumpy hand layup. What does that do to the preformance of the airfoil? Gee, maybe we should build a wind tunnel? -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:28:59 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Thanks to KRNET Supporters Randy, Hey, I just do the typing and email stuff, you are doing a great job of promoting! Saw your name on the PerryKosh tape and I'd let everyone know that you are part of the inspiration behind the scenes. However, you do spend a lot of time promoting and whining. I guess you are not doing so hot behind the scenes lately. Now that we have completed this mutual appriciation ritual... I will try and post a KR progress report. -- Ross BSHADR wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-30 18:09:59 EST, Don wrote: > > << I just changed from a VERY antique 386 machine to a PentII and I lost > your address. For my benifit, and perhaps others as well, please send > it out again. I want to make the donation, the service is well worth > it. >> > > WOW - What an opening...care for a shot of whine anyone? > > Don - You are right. KRNet is super for the newbees and builders. The KR > family just keeps growing and growing. Life is grand! Just in case anyone > else has a few bucks to toss into the KRNet pot I'll include the address. > I'll bet if we were to check the roster and compare it to actual donations > made, we would find a serious shortfall. Let's see, 200 subscribers x $10 > each = $2,000. I'll wager we are a bit shy of that so far...could we have > some folks who have jumped on the bus and didn't come in through the front > door where the fare bucket is kept? Naw, couldn't be. Maybe the mail man is > taking a cut...could you check on that for me Mr. KRNet "Janitor" Ross? > > Ross Youngblood > 1109 NE Burke Pl > Corvalis, OR 97330 > > Ross - You are appreciated. No one has stepped up to the plate to help (which > surprises me a bit), regardless, you have done one heck of a job keeping the > KRNet Turkey flying. Thank you so much. > > I don't recall EAA, or Flying, or AOPA, or Kitplanes spending very much time > or effort thanking me for contributing to them either. So don't feel too > guilty about not naming each and everyone who sends their dollars. Heck, we > all get back fair value for our few bucks tossed in...actually many times > more! > > Ross, I think it is time KRNet kicked in for a night out and a burger for you > and the 'lil lady. Feel guilty yet? Good - hurry up and finish that burger > so you can get back open the next round of envelopes of money the mail man is > going to bring...especially since I just busted him and the envelopes will > still have money in them this time. > > Randy (whine) Stein > BSHADR@aol.com > Soviet Monica, CA > > PS - BTW, I just got my 97 Perry KRKosh video. I'll try to sit down to look > it over before the week is up. Did I mention KRNet gets a few dollars from > Video Bob for each video ordered through KRNet too? :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:33:15 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Retort to whine - BIG FLAME Rick, Randy was just joking.... Yes this is a labor of love... I don't really need any contribitons till later this year. KRNET is paid up till Sept/Oct '98. Then we need to shell out about $180-200 for another year. If I wanted to charge a subscription for this service, I'd really have to do somthing to improve the service. This is all in the "free" spirit of the internet... so don't feel obligated to send me any money. EagleGator wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-30 22:38:34 EST, you write: > > << Let's see, 200 subscribers x $10 > each = $2,000. I'll wager we are a bit shy of that so far...could we have > some folks who have jumped on the bus and didn't come in through the front > door where the fare bucket is kept? >> > > To the best of my knowledge, Ross volunteered for the administration duties > because he wanted to (Ross, please correct me if I'm wrong), and his work on > the list is a "labor of love". Such is the case with the many, many fine web > pages supported by many of the folks on this list. Yes, I count myself among > that crowd with my meager web page offerings. > > Ross, you're doing a fine job and providing an invaluable service to us all, > and we'll support you with whatever is required to keep KRNet "in the black" > and your personal funds where they belong (in your own pocket). Please let us > know if your KRNet expenses are not met, and I know enough of us will kick in > to cover them. Just ask. > > Randy, to even IMPLY that there is a charge for subscribing to this list is > out of line, even if it was meant in jest. If I remember correctly, someone > was appropriately chastised at the gathering for trying to charge admission. > That's not the way KR people have done things in the past, and I think it's a > tradition that should be maintained. The vast majority of us are good people > who will support the effort as we are able. Thus the "passing of the bucket" > at the gathering banquet. The next thing we know you'll be suggesting that we > copyright KROnline and charge for subscriptions, just like the print > newsletter (I had to bring up THAT dead horse.... oops). > > If I've over-reacted, tough. This is a subject I feel very strongly about. > If there is a need, I'll be one of the first to contribute time, research or > funds, as I am able, to meet that need. But don't ever dare to CHARGE me for > it -- that's just not how you treat family. > > Another fine sermon delivered by.... > > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:52:42 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Engine costs Gee, Seems like you could afford to replace the engine at Annual time for what some folks were paying A&P's. I was considering buying one of those nifty Cessna twins with the push-pull configuration. (Yes I know I'm an idiot, I don't recall the designation, and don't really care, it's in Trade-a-Plane so I don't have to remember it). At any rate, you could pop two V8 engines for 4K, fly for a year, sell the used engines, and buy new ones every year. Just like Tires. What's needed is a quick disconnect engine mount. (Plug and play). Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Here's something else for the engine-of-the-week, which I posted to the > Airsoob list. > > It's sad. Yesterday in our local newspaper were two ads; one from the > local Chevy dealer, another from a repair shop. Listed were prices > for replacement Goodwrench engines... makes you wonder about what we pay > for our little Subaru (or Jabiru, or Rotax, or CAM100, or Lyc, or Cont.) > engines. Here are just two: > > --New GM 350 V-8 engine; 36 mo./50,000 mile nationwide GM warranty; as > low as $1,799 installed; includes new engine and labor. > > --Engine special; new 454 fuel injected; GM 36 month/50,000 mile > warranty; $2,550 parts and labor. > > Sigh. > > Happy New Year to one and all. > > Oscar Zuniga (planning a 454 injected Chevy KR-2S) [;o) > Medford, Oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:47:37 EST From: BSHADR Subject: Re: KR: rotary engines In a message dated 97-12-31 10:57:38 EST, Robert wrote: << Dose anybody have a new address phone number for Duncan Aviation Engines. They were in Camanche Oklahoma they were reported to make rotary aircraft engines in the 60- 240 hp range. I read in book call Building and flying composite airplanes. Has anyone out there ever seen a kr2 with such an engine installed and flying. >> I heard thye have better promotion than production...memory serves me they may be in Mexico (yes south of the border) starting up again. Don't quote me. I would want to talk with 5 or 6 of their satisfied users who have more than 200 hrs each on these engines before I'd get too excited. MidWest Aero in England has the best complete rotary setup on the market. They have an agent in Florida (I think). Cost is a problem. Last time I heard, it was $12,000 to $14,000 turnkey without radiator portion of the system. But they system is JAR certified in Europe - so it works. Fisher has one on there factory biplane demonstrator (for 3+ years). They are happy with it. Cost is the big issue. Hope this helps Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:00:56 -0600 From: pierce@pat.lgb.cal.boeing.com (Cole Pierce) Subject: Re: KR: Engine costs > From: Ross Youngblood > > What's needed is a quick disconnect engine mount. (Plug and play). > ... more like plug and pray - -gun one ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:21:17 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: N541RY Progress Report Whew... 9 years and still working on N541RY. I think I spend too much time on the computer. We had a local EAA chapter member build a Starduster II (an 8,000 hr project completed in a year). I can tell you that the workmanship is excellent! (We are visiting the hangar this Sat). OK, so I have a family outside the garage. Nuff said. December Highlights: Got two baseball caps "N541RY" from my wife for Christmas! My Terra TR250D Transponder is IN (arrived 12/11). Those who have been watching this space, may have known that there is a long backorder time for these nifty lightweight low current consumption transponders (READ: You can use a battery!). They use them in sailplanes, and as far as I know, sailplanes don't have starters or electrical systems. Well, I haven't finished my electrical wiring, I asked for the rack when I ordered the unit, and was hoping to have everyting in place prior to getting the transponder. Here is N541RY's to do list: 1) Replace firewall bolts with those of the right length! 2) Complete engine baffleing 3) Install break fluid, check breaks. (May have to re-install break lines, I'm not happy with cockpit/gear routing, and geez, I'm using Nyloflow tubing.) 4) Build Carb heat plenium. 5) Find/Order... carb heat cable. 6) Route fuel line from header tank. a) Hmmm... will gravity feed be OK for 5Gal reserve tank to Ellison? or... will I need to re-do my entire fuel routing. (i.e. add fuel pump at firewall-- UGH!). b) Test electric fuel pumps from wing root thru carb (prelim fuel flow) 7) Finsh flaps! 8) Install Flap brackets! (It's a long story, but I inverted the bottom aileron bellcrank brackets. Now the plans provided outboard flap brackets... they a no work.) 9) Finish instrument panel attach brackets (these capture the removable header tank AFT as well). 10) Route mixture/throttle cables through firewall. 11) Find a RIGID mount location for the STIFF acting primer. 12) Fit a primer fitting (1/8npt?) at intake manifold someplace near cylinder. 13) Move project out to hangar. (Trailer..EAA help) 14) Start engine, blow dust out of hangar for 20 min. 15) Grab wings from hanger. a) sand b) fill c) sand d) fill e) sand . . z) prime (repeat a-z till ready for paint) 16) Fix bad spots on aileron/aileron spar layup. 17) Attach ailerons to Wings (hinges previously installed/removed). 18) Install Com/Xponder antenna 19) Buy an ELT 20) Fix/replace broken bendable sending unit for wing tank (DOH!). 21) Paint the wings 22) Aileron counterbalance? Forgot that. Good thing I cut the holes in the wing a couple of years ago, now that it's painted. 23) Taxi arround FBO, scare innocent bystanders, self. 24) High speed Taxi tests, scare self, hopefully no other pilots scared. Make some go/no-go flight proficiency decisions regarding test flying plane myself. 25) Call DAR arrange for appointment. 26) Arrange for taildragger instruction. (Actually this is underway already and should be #0) See... I only have 26 things to do. Should be flying by March! - -- Ross I need to keep this email, as it is a good shopping list for me to get some work done with. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:33:33 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Plug and Pray Cole Pierce wrote: > > > From: Ross Youngblood > > > > What's needed is a quick disconnect engine mount. (Plug and play). > > > > ... more like plug and pray > > -gun one I got a chuckle out of this. Plug and Pray, you've seen it with windows 95, now fly it! Great marketing campaign -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:36:36 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: The video bob link at krnet I checked with Bob Vermeulen at Omega productions "Video Bob". He may not be getting the emails from the web form as intended. I have been getting copies of the emails myself at krnet@krnet.org and will try to forward the ones I've saved to him so he can contact you. If you are one of the neglected... here is his email address bvermeul@concentric.net The tapes are $25, and are fun to watch! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:09:51 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Engine costs Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Here's something else for the engine-of-the-week, which I posted to the > Airsoob list. > > It's sad. Yesterday in our local newspaper were two ads; one from the > local Chevy dealer, another from a repair shop. Listed were prices > for replacement Goodwrench engines... makes you wonder about what we pay > for our little Subaru (or Jabiru, or Rotax, or CAM100, or Lyc, or Cont.) > engines. Here are just two: > > --New GM 350 V-8 engine; 36 mo./50,000 mile nationwide GM warranty; as > low as $1,799 installed; includes new engine and labor. > > Oscar Zuniga (planning a 454 injected Chevy KR-2S) [;o) > Medford, Oregon > Oscar, you are absoulutely right! Every 1500-2000 hours just pull it out and chuck it, and replace it with a brand new motor. What we've got now is Play and Pay since engine overhauls are running twice the cost of a new auto motor. The new prop drive unit for VW motors looks promising, as the engines will require far less machining and custom parts to run as an aviation powerplant. All the propellor stresses are absorbed by that prop shaft and rubber dampeners, all the engine has to do is put out the power. - -Tom in Orlando ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:25:15 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from ["BEARSCOUT" ] Pat, Check out http://www.fly-kr.com for information on purchasing plans for the KR1,KR2 or KR2S. I have forwarded your post to KRNET-L for others. -- Ross owner-krnet-l@teleport.com wrote: > > >From krnet-l-owner Sun Dec 28 17:16:40 1997 > Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07937 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:16:39 -0800 (PST) > Received: from default (port122.indi.prodigy.net [204.237.45.122]) > by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA72144 > for ; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:12:21 -0500 > Message-Id: <199712290112.UAA72144@mail1y-int.prodigy.net> > Reply-To: > From: "BEARSCOUT" > To: > Subject: Hi there.... > Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:11:42 -0000 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi there, > I would like to know is there anywhere you can send for drawings for > the Kr1. > I would like to build one and I was just wondering if you had any drawings > on how too. > > thank you Pat Janitz - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:25:51 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [David Robertson ]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------2F1CF0FB7DE145184487EB71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fowrwarding submission from NEW KRnetter - --------------2F1CF0FB7DE145184487EB71 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by smtp3 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Wed Dec 31 11:43:37 1997) X-From_: krnet-l-owner Tue Dec 23 08:53:05 1997 Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id IAA00021; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:53:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:53:02 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199712231653.IAA00021@smtp2.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [David Robertson ] >From krnet-l-owner Tue Dec 23 08:52:57 1997 Received: from sunspot.intercomm.com (sunspot.intercomm.com [208.203.71.13]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29968 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nvlawyers.com (AS1-90.intercomm.com [208.203.72.90]) by sunspot.intercomm.com (8.8.5/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03461 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:54:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <349FECD7.51549B75@nvlawyers.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:54:48 -0800 From: David Robertson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: used kr2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in purchasing a used kr2 but haven't seen any in Trade-a-Plane. Can anyone recommend a source for used kr2's? Thanks. David - --------------2F1CF0FB7DE145184487EB71-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:31:19 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Bounced submission (Laminating Spars) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------13728473500F9F30284797A9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org - --------------13728473500F9F30284797A9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by smtp3 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Wed Dec 31 11:30:55 1997) X-From_: krnet-l-owner Wed Dec 17 10:00:37 1997 Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id KAA29579; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:00:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:00:37 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199712171800.KAA29579@smtp4.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ] >From krnet-l-owner Wed Dec 17 10:00:33 1997 Received: from San-Jose.ate.slb.com (k2-1.San-Jose.ate.slb.com [163.185.48.3]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29550 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (rossy-ss5.San-Jose.ate.slb.com) by San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1-Z) id AA25026; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:59:55 PST Received: from evergreen (localhost) by evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00309; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:58:49 PST Sender: rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Message-Id: <349812D9.63DECDAD@san-jose.ate.slb.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:58:49 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: KRNET Subject: Re: KR: laminating main spars References: <3496B98B.1597@wadsworth.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, I didn't know the first thing about anything when I started, and was very concerned about laminating my spars. So I spent extra $$$ and bought the HEXCEL laminating epoxy system. It mixed just like normal epoxy, but had a much thinner consistancy. I think more of the material wicked into the wood than would occur with normal epoxy. Other than this. I don't have any positive/negitive comments to add regarding the use of T88 for laminating spars.... I think you will have a good lamination, but I don't know what Ben Owen was concerned with regarding epoxy use. -- Ross smithr wrote: > > I was just reading an old article by Ben Owen about laminating spars. > I got the distinct impression from this article that epoxy was not > recommended for laminating spruce. Unfortunately I have already used T88 > to laminate mine. They appear to be very strong. Is there anyone out > there that is successfully flying with T88 laminated spars? Comments > anyone? > > Bob Smith - --------------13728473500F9F30284797A9-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:30:59 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Bouned trailer submission This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------52BFA1D762319AC463DECDAD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org - --------------52BFA1D762319AC463DECDAD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by smtp3 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Wed Dec 31 11:30:43 1997) X-From_: krnet-l-owner Wed Dec 17 09:32:05 1997 Return-Path: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id JAA23265; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:32:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:32:04 -0800 (PST) From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199712171732.JAA23265@smtp4.teleport.com> To: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: BOUNCE krnet-l@lists.teleport.com: Non-member submission from [Ross Youngblood ] >From krnet-l-owner Wed Dec 17 09:32:00 1997 Received: from San-Jose.ate.slb.com (k2-1.San-Jose.ate.slb.com [163.185.48.3]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23119 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (rossy-ss5.San-Jose.ate.slb.com) by San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1-Z) id AA24028; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:31:14 PST Received: from evergreen (localhost) by evergreen.San-Jose.ate.slb.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00281; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:30:07 PST Sender: rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com Message-Id: <34980C1F.31DFF4F5@san-jose.ate.slb.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:30:07 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: KRNET Subject: Re: KR: Trailer References: <199712151220.EAA23994@m5.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, Thanks for the information. My trailer has a 4x8 3/4" ply surface but the tounge extends out with a triangular region which is where I can place the tail. There is a winch for the driftboat where the tailweel sat the last time I moved my project. The problem I have with it currently is: 1) Too high off the ground. Makes loading/unloading difficult. 2) Not wide enough for wheels (5'6" is wheelbase, 7'2" is stub spar width) 3) Bad suspension... this was OK before I had the engine on it, but now, I'm afraid it will bounce right off the trailer. Soo... welding in my future. enewbold@sprynet.com wrote: > > Ross wrote: > >I've got a $50 4x8 driftboat trailer that I am thinking of hacking > >on and making into a KR trailer... > > >I'm thinking it should be LOW with a ramp, and a electric winch > >so you can just hoist the plane into the trailer with one person. > > >Also wing jigs should be provided to make wing install/removal easy > >like you can do if you spend $90,000 for a nice sailplane with a > >trailer. > > The trailer I've been using to move both my flying KR-1 and my 75% completed > KR-2 around the country is like this: > > On top of the bed of the basic trailer is 5x15' plywood box which has sides 30" > tall, and 5 each 3x5' top sheets of ply which cover the box. All ply is 3/4". In > side the box is where the wings are kept while in transport. The box is lined > with white styrofoam and then the wings are then also surrounded by sheets of > styrofoam to prevent bouncing around. The ply cover sheets are held onto the top > of the box by wing nuts. > > After the wings are loaded, the top is bolted on, and the the airplane is rolled > up two 2x8 planks which lead to the top of the trailer. After the airplane is > all the way on top, I take the two planks I used as ramps and place them > crosswise on top of the trailer, in front of the airplane. > > Then, I roll the airplane further forward untile the mains rest squarely on top > of these planks. I then secure the plane to the trailer with a variety of straps > and ropes. The system works REAL GOOD. I have some photos I'll put on my web > site tonight for you. I've used it a lot recently, with no problems. > > The basic trailer was originally one of those kinda cheap 5x10's ($500) you get > from Lowes hardware store. The tongue and rear frame was extended a bit with > scrap metal (had a friend do the welding). > > See ya later. > Ed Newbold > Columbus, OH - --------------52BFA1D762319AC463DECDAD-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:35:15 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: Don Clarkes KR-2] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by smtp3 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Wed Dec 31 11:40:29 1997) X-From_: DClarke351@aol.com Sun Dec 21 19:32:56 1997 Return-Path: DClarke351@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17621 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:31:47 -0800 (PST) From: DClarke351 Message-ID: <470c7651.349ddee5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:30:42 EST To: krnet@krnet.org Subject: Don Clarkes KR-2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) I just thouhgt I would drop you all a line to let you know that my KR-2 Tri- Gear is just about finished and just about ready for FAA inspection here in El Paso, Tx. I just finished the push rod system rigging. I will send more info as time goes on. Ican be reached at DClarke351@aol.com or 915-755-0588. Don Clarke - --------------64880EEB773C24486F5992E1-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:37:27 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Re: Help Tony, I have copied your post to krnet-l. I also believe I saw your name in the list of new KRNET subscribers. So you should see this as a krnet post too. Posts to KRNET are done via email mailto:krnet-l@teleport.com (Thats krnet-L not krnet-one case is not important). So you could use KRNET-L@teleport.com Just a tip: Webpages ARE case sensitive I think, but email addresses are not. - -- Ross Tony Darby wrote: > > I am interested in getting a KR2. I would like to get one under > construction or already built. Can you tell me where I can post a message > to get the word out. Thanks, Tony - -- KRNET-L Administrator !!! REMEMBER POSTS GO TO !!! krnet@krnet.org !!! KRNET-L@teleport.com !!! rossy@teleport.com !!! NOT krnet@krnet.org !!! http://www.krnet.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:46:43 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: NLF(1)0115 On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Ross Youngblood wrote: > MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > > > Just wondering why it takes $180 in carbon fiber to cover the wing > > sectons? My plane has been holding up just fine with E glass and wood > > spars. Jean N4DD > > This brings up a good point.... what happens if a builder does > a lumpy hand layup. What does that do to the preformance of the > airfoil? Gee, maybe we should build a wind tunnel? > Good point Ross. The Europa uses hot wired foam wing cores and wet layup glass skins that get a micro coat for final finish and profiling to the correct airfoil profile. The only thing wrong is Europa is so paranoid about someone using their proprietary airfoil that they don't provide builders with airfoil coordinates, templates or anything else than the factory cut foam cores. They can't figure out why there is so great a spread in performance between the flying Europas, all using the same Rotax 912 engines and props. Go figure.....there are as many different airfoils on flying Europas as there are builders. At least with the NLF(1)0115 and the new airfoil all builders will have coordinates and will be able to verify haw true their airfoil is! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:28:58 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: insurance (pretty long) In a message dated 97-12-31 10:20:54 EST, Larry wrote: > I applaude your willingness to help out your fellow KR builders > and flyers , Rick, but I think you would be taking on > a bigger project then you did when you committed to build the > airplane inself!!! Absolutely. No doubt about it. But I have experience with writing aviation syllabuses and supervising training programs and would like to give it a shot. It will be a HUGE commitment of my time and effort, which is why I drew the line at a minimum of 20 interested parties. If this many people commit to start the program, it has a good chance of growing. That's provided I can get the resources committed to make it work in the first place. Since this program is a "nice to have" rather than a "need to have", the whole idea may die on the vine. But it is well worth a shot. With the information I got from Scott Smith, we know that Avemco is not the only game in town and the airplane is insurable without this program. That makes it easier as we can set our own guidelines. However, I'd like to design the program to mirror the Glasair/Lancair programs to the degree where we can keep it economically feasible. The program will have more credibility and value if it can be compared to existing "approved" programs. To answer Larry's questions: My initial thought for inspections is to make use of the EAA tech counselor program, depending on what the limits are on the authority the TCs have and the liability they are willing to assume. The only thing different from a "standard" visit from a tech counselor is that we would have a detailed checklist of specific items for him/her to look at. This was suggested by Jim Nelson from Avemco, also. More research required. As far as qualifying modifications to the airplane, I'm sure we could work that issue out. Mods during building would require some sort of risk analysis, as would major structural mods after completion. Again, more research into who would be the "approval authority". This would only really be a concern if insuring with Avemco. The type training will be the toughest part. There has to be a way to get a few "factory demonstrators" built, and we would need to have a band of CFIs to do the training. This is the biggest stumbling block I see, but its not insurmountable. I don't want to hear "it can't be done" from anyone on this point, I know it can, its a question of whether it can be done economically or not. And I'm not talking about making it happen tomorrow, this airplane has been around for 25 years and will easily be around for another 25. As far as the costs of these programs go, this would have to be a "family" effort. I see this as an opportunity for us to help each other out, and it would require a high degree of voluntary dedication by everyone involved. Just a thought out of my hip pocket, but we could start a "KR Insurance Club" or something along those lines with annual dues to cover the out of pocket expenses incurred by our inspectors/ instructors. If you want the training and inspections, you join the club. If there isn't any interest, obviously we won't have a program. At this point I have no idea what this would cost, but a better question is what would you be willing to contribute to participate in a program like this? $200? $25? $1000? I want to design the program to fit the budget, not develop something from the get go that is unsupportable, or require me to say, "ok, everyone needs to pitch in $x to keep this alive". That won't work, and I don't work that way. So I ask everyone, give me an idea of what this program would be worth to you, and I'll take it from there (or drop it). I'm not asking for commitments at this time, just a point to start from. There are about 200 of you out there, I only need to hear from 10% Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V1 #203 *****************************