From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 1998 3:29 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #3 krnet-l-digest Sunday, January 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:04:31 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Information wanted Thanks Brian! Some members might want to know what happens to the name/address you put on the web form... it goes into the bit bucket. I didn't have time to keep track of this stuff. Brian is trying to help me out. -- Regards Ross Brian Bland wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I am trying to get the info on the KRNet subscribers. If you could > please e-mail me privately with your: > > Name > Where you live > What you are building or hoping to build > > I am going to put together info so that people can find out who's > e-mail address goes with what name and where you're located..... > > Thanks, > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:19:51 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: props Tom, I am shooting for a 500# empty weight as well, but I won't know how well I'm doing until I do some weighing again. I haven't spent a lot of time comparing preformance of my powerplant/prop/KR based on numbers from other flying KR's. I do expect from 140mph to 160mph cruise, but will take what I can get for starters. Your numbers sound reasonable... but this is not somthing I have spent a lot of time worrying about. I chose the 1835cc over the 2180cc or Subaru primarily on cost, but also the 1835cc can go a bit farther than the 2180cc between checkups. I had originally set my compression low for auto gas, but since that time, I have decided that I would be much better off running 100LL, as it is just more convient to purchase anywhere. Not to mention problems with autogas additives and glass tanks. So, at some point I will need to re-assess what I set my compression ratio to on my 1835cc with AVgas, I might be able to remove a couple of deck height shims to get closer to 8.0:1 or so no the compression ratio, getting a bit more power and still being in the reliable range for the engine. I probably won't do anything to the engine unless it appears that I am just not getting enough power out of it. I was pretty conservative in my calculations based on my cc'ing of the heads. I decided that if I had an error, I'd rather err on the low compression side, then be too high and do damage. I will need to re-check my logbook notes on this and probably give Steve a call at some point to get some sensible advice. My primary concern is enough power to make a nice climb out with two board. (which with my non-widened cockpit, will not be all that often I expect.) Otherwise my goal with the KR was to have a plane to economicly maintain flight proficiency in. If I want to take the family someplace, I can always rent. If I'm in a hurry, the local flying club has a Mooney I can look into for $$. Once I get mine flying... I will probably start tweeking here and there looking for 5-10mph cruise. Heck I could always try building a new set of wings with the new airfoil. (Wonder If they would mate with the original stub wing...I'm lazy). -- Ross - -- Ross Tom Andersen wrote: > > Ross wrote: > > > > Doug, > > I am going to fly behind a Great Plains 1835cc VW conversion and > > a fixed pitch prop. I'm not yet flying, but that's what I choose. > > > Ross, > What performance do you expect from this combo, and what prop size do > you plan to use? I'll be using a 1835cc VW also with a 50 x 45. With > no electrical system and lightweight building I expect empty weight of > 500 lbs or less. This should give about 700fpm climb, 140mph cruise, > 160mph top speed. How does this sound? > -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:23:28 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel delay Steve, I'm not in a big hurry for wind tunnel data. I already have a set of RAF wings so my interest was just to advance the design for others. I am really curious about tests with hand lay-up wings vs the "ideal" wing. Some of the attractiveness of the KR design (for me anyway), was the ability to do my own wing lay-up without having to purchase skins. After doing them... I think the Deihl wings are probably a good deal, but I'd still probably build my own if I had to do it again... it was messy fun. -- Ross Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > Received the following email from Dr. Selig. It speaks for its self. > Right now I need to blow some more wind into my sail - most of it has > gone out. > > I will be talking to Dr. Selig Monday and hope to get a meeting to meet > and talk to him next week about the tests and new airfoil design. Hope to > get a new time line and see if some of the other projects could be moved > up, i.e. the KR stability analysis and sizing the NLF(1)0115 wing to the > KR-2S (based upon the theoretical data for now). Will update everyone > after I get back from U of I. > > With the delay in getting into the wind tunnel I am giving any of you > that have contributed to the NLF wind tunnel testing project a chance to > reconsider. I have not cashed any of the checks and don't plan to until > we have to pay for the wind tunnel time. If anyone would like a refund > let me know. In the long run this may actually be in our favor, will let > you know what I find out next week. > > Steve Eberhart > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:28:35 -0600 > From: Michael S. Selig > To: Steven A Eberhart > Cc: wjasinsk@uiuc.edu, gopalara@uiuc.edu > Subject: going to be delayed > > Hi Steve, > > Neither Ashok nor I have had time to digest the email below, but there > is some info that you need to know. > > We are going to be delayed in doing your tests. I have a student in the > tunnel now taking data for his thesis, and he has been slowed up by a > pretty ambitious test plan, along with all the details that go with a new > setup. To keep that test afloat (motorsports related) and our commitment > to Ford (who we are doing the tests for), I had to move your slot to April > 15 and give up a week on another project. As you probably know, I share > the tunnel with Prof Bragg, and he has more demands on the tunnel than I. > In particular, he has students that need to take data for their theses > too... > > So I am not sure what that does to your schedules and those others that > might be affected, but I am sorry and there is really nothing else that > could be done given the responsibilities to the Ford project. > > Sorry to bring you bad news at the start of a new year (this news came to > me on Wed). > > Nevertheless... > > Happy New Year, > Michael > > ********************************************** > Prof. Michael S. Selig > Dept. of Aero/Astro Engineering > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > 306 Talbot Laboratory > 104 South Wright Street > Urbana, IL 61801-2935 > (217) 244-5757 (o), (217) 244-0720 (fax) > mailto:m-selig@uiuc.edu > http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/m-selig > ftp://opus.aae.uiuc.edu/pub > ********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:27:30 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! Martin, I too think that glassing the fuselage is overkill, however others here have done so (with a lightweight cloth), and Tony Bengills does suggest it as an alternative in one of his books. I was hoping that the primer would fill the grain on my project, in my case, I still have some grain showing, but you have to get up close and LOOK for it to see it. Otherwise it's not noticible, and I think I save some weight over those that have glassed. (This has been argued in past KRNET discussions.) -- Ross Martin Mulvey wrote: > > No need. The structure is fine and any more added to it would be > unproductive weight. Finishing the wood is easy and you are only looking for > trouble by adding glass. > BRGDS Marty > -----Original Message----- > From: XZOSTD1 > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Date: 03 January, 1998 20:17 > Subject: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers > Rule!!!! > > >Should I Glass My Fuselage??? > > > >Any thoughts and info would be appreciated. > >Building KR-2S tail gear with Diehl gear and turbo Subaru?? > >Bill Huntley > >Green Bay, WI. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:41:40 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel delay Steven A Eberhart wrote: > > Received the following email from Dr. Selig. It speaks for its self. > Right now I need to blow some more wind into my sail - most of it has > gone out. > > I will be talking to Dr. Selig Monday and hope to get a meeting to meet > and talk to him next week about the tests and new airfoil design. Hope to > get a new time line and see if some of the other projects could be moved > up, i.e. the KR stability analysis and sizing the NLF(1)0115 wing to the > KR-2S (based upon the theoretical data for now). Will update everyone > after I get back from U of I. > > With the delay in getting into the wind tunnel I am giving any of you > that have contributed to the NLF wind tunnel testing project a chance to > reconsider. I have not cashed any of the checks and don't plan to until > we have to pay for the wind tunnel time. If anyone would like a refund > let me know. In the long run this may actually be in our favor, will let > you know what I find out next week. > > Steve Eberhart > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:28:35 -0600 > From: Michael S. Selig > To: Steven A Eberhart > Cc: wjasinsk@uiuc.edu, gopalara@uiuc.edu > Subject: going to be delayed > > Hi Steve, > > Neither Ashok nor I have had time to digest the email below, but there > is some info that you need to know. > > We are going to be delayed in doing your tests. I have a student in the > tunnel now taking data for his thesis, and he has been slowed up by a > pretty ambitious test plan, along with all the details that go with a new > setup. To keep that test afloat (motorsports related) and our commitment > to Ford (who we are doing the tests for), I had to move your slot to April > 15 and give up a week on another project. As you probably know, I share > the tunnel with Prof Bragg, and he has more demands on the tunnel than I. > In particular, he has students that need to take data for their theses > too... > > So I am not sure what that does to your schedules and those others that > might be affected, but I am sorry and there is really nothing else that > could be done given the responsibilities to the Ford project. > > Sorry to bring you bad news at the start of a new year (this news came to > me on Wed). > > Nevertheless... > > Happy New Year, > Michael > > ********************************************** > Prof. Michael S. Selig > Dept. of Aero/Astro Engineering > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > 306 Talbot Laboratory > 104 South Wright Street > Urbana, IL 61801-2935 > (217) 244-5757 (o), (217) 244-0720 (fax) > mailto:m-selig@uiuc.edu > http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/m-selig > ftp://opus.aae.uiuc.edu/pub > ********************************************** As I recall, all this got going pretty fast so a little slow down is no problem. Check is in the mail :o) Bruce S. Campbell Tampa "Go Bucs" Florida ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:43:35 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! XZOSTD1 wrote: > > Should I Glass My Fuselage??? > > Any thoughts and info would be appreciated. > Building KR-2S tail gear with Diehl gear and turbo Subaru?? > Bill Huntley > Green Bay, WI. No! Bruce S. Campbell Tampa "Go Bucs" Florida :o) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 22:45:17 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: Re: KR: Information wanted On 4/1/98 3:35AM, in message <34b1e683.28284492@mail.busprod.com>, Brian Bland wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I am trying to get the info on the KRNet subscribers. If you could > please e-mail me privately with your: > > Name > Where you live > What you are building or hoping to build > > > I am going to put together info so that people can find out who's > e-mail address goes with what name and where you're located..... > > Thanks, > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org > Hi Brian Name : Rob Matthews Address : P.O. Box 157 Mtunzini 3867 Natal South Africa Plane : KR 2 with 2100 S Revmaster, Tricycle landing gear, Revflow Carb, +/- 80% complete. Ross has a picture of the plane at his disposal. email : mathewrz@iafrica.com Tel : 27 353 401439 Fax : 27 353 401441 Regards - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:12:37 -0600 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: stub wing fuel tanks At 06:16 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Question for anyone that has done this: > >With fixed tri-gear(nosewheel), is there enough room to put both the >Diehl gear and the control cables behind the spar and still get about 5 >gal stub wing tanks in? I assume you need to allow about 3-4 inches. Any >tricks to routing the control cables past the gear? > >Bob Smith KR2S Merry Christmas to all! > Bob, On my trigear I placed a pulley on thr rear on the main spar just inside the cockpit and another pulley on the forward side of the rear spar. This allowed the control cable to go between the two at about a 45 degree angle. KISS. Works great! Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:50:48 -0600 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Nylaflow brake lines? At 08:17 AM 12/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >BrakeLineHeads, > >I seem to vaguely remember somebody saying that Nylaflow(R!) brake lines >might melt if connected directly to the caliper, especially during extended >taxi tests. Has anyone had this experience? Any opinions? Anybody connect Nylaflow directly to >the caliper and live to tell about it? I don't plan to do a whole lot of >taxi testing. Probably a couple of trips down the runway to get the feel >for it and then a firewall job... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >email at langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > Mark, I used Nylaflow tubing for my brake lines and they are connected directly to the caliper. I taxi tested for two months before I flew the first time. Now with over 270 hrs - NO problems. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 06:23:06 -0600 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Glass fuel tank? At 06:49 PM 12/29/97 EST, you wrote: >I'm still trying to decide whether to build a alum. or glass header tank, it's >now time for the KRNet to make up my mind for me. If I build a glass tank, do >I need to use 1" foam or can I get by with say 1/2" or 3/4" if I use baffles >and attach them to the top and bottom of the tank? If I use 1", are baffles >necessary? Remember this is only the header tank. Has anyone found a good, >reliable and simple (I may be asking too much) sending unit? > >Give my a hand here guys. > >Dana Overall >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > For my header tank(my only tank), I used foam to shape the tank and after the fiberglass was cured, the foam was removed. The tank was glassed with two layers of 9oz cloth, foam removed, sanded, fiberglass(only) baffles put in place, and glassed over the outside with two layers of 6oz cloth. I believe that the process of fiberglassing in two stages is a major reason that I have never had any fuel leaks(knock on wood). My fuel gauge is a simple clear fuel mounted to the instrument panel. Bobby Muse(N122B) bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 08:07:46 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Plywood Brian Bland wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I just had a quick question. How flexible is the 3/32" Mahogany or > Birch ply? I have found an excellent source of plywood. They have it > with 3 equal plys which is flexible and with a thicker inner ply which > is not as flexible. The flexible wood only comes in 3'x6' sheets. I > can get the other in 4'x8' sheets. I would prefer to get the 4'x8' > sheets. Also does it matter which way the grain runs on the fuselage? > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org I would go with the 4'X8'. The amount of bending is small and the extra flex will not really be needed. The face grain should run the length of the fuselage. All scarf joints should be on top of a longeron. - -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:28:58 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel delay In a message dated 98-01-03 23:32:22 EST, you write: << Received the following email from Dr. Selig. It speaks for its self. Right now I need to blow some more wind into my sail - most of it has gone out. >> Here's some wind, with the delay I'll be able to send $$$ so do as you are asked (notice I didn't say "as told") and repost your mailing address. Anything good is worth waiting for. Dana Oveall http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:35:46 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Tail Wheel. Here I am shopping again. I currently have the RR design spring steel tailwheel assembly but I have bought the "soft" wheel from Steve. I am looking to replace the spring steel with a rod. At the TN gathering I noticed the rod would lessen the tailwheel noise considerable and that Dan used to sell the fiberglass rod. Question, is the rod actually 100% glass? If anyone can tell me about the metal rod, ie. what are the figures for hardening and retensiling let me know what you have done. Dana Overall http:www.geocites.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:39:43 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: N541RY Progress Update At 01:02 1/4/98 -0800, Rossy wrote: >Well Finally! ... > My next obstacle is the final fuel system routing. I have >originally installed two Facet fuel pumps under the sling seat which >feed filtered fuel from each wing tank up to a fuel selector in the >center of the panel. This was then going to feed the header tank and/ >or the engine. I'm not 100% happy with the plans solution as I am >using an Ellison and need 2-3psi or so at the carb, which means that >gravity feed may not work. > >I would be interested in links/photos of fuel schematics specifically >for the Ellison TBI which is recommended to have pressurized fuel. > >I am planning on doing a gravity feed test of the header tank, in my >case it only holds 5 gallons of reserve fuel, and the idea was >to use it as a reserve tank. I'm looking to follow the KISS principle >for my fuel system, as fuel problems are a significant contributor >to accident statistics. Ideas? > > -- Regards > Ross > Just a reminder - I think we worked this over a few months ago: a vent facing into wind can build an appreciable head of pressure at top speed - enough to hinder the fuel inlet from wing tanks. The solution is straight-forward: vent the header and the other tanks to the same source. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:52:55 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Plywood Brian Bland wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I just had a quick question. How flexible is the 3/32" Mahogany or > Birch ply? I have found an excellent source of plywood. They have it > with 3 equal plys which is flexible and with a thicker inner ply which > is not as flexible. The flexible wood only comes in 3'x6' sheets. I > can get the other in 4'x8' sheets. I would prefer to get the 4'x8' > sheets. Also does it matter which way the grain runs on the fuselage? > I know the plans say it does on the spars, but I didn't see anything > about the fuse. Any comments? > > Thanks, > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org----------------- Brian: I got both birch and mahogany ply from Wicks. The birch was 5 ply, and the mahogany was 3 ply. Mahogany was also 4X8 and the birch was 50 inches square. Both were aircraft certified. The birch was stiffer then the mahogany. I used the mahogany on the sides. I could have used the birch but I would need to do more scarfs. The birch would have been better, stronger, and have less flex, but I think the mahogany is strong enough for the sides. I would not use the mahogany for anything really structural. The birch was substantially stronger but also much heavier. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing Field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:57:11 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Information wanted Brian Bland wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I am trying to get the info on the KRNet subscribers. If you could > please e-mail me privately with your: > > Name > Where you live > What you are building or hoping to build > > I am going to put together info so that people can find out who's > e-mail address goes with what name and where you're located..... > > Thanks, > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org----------- Brian: Marvin McCoy P.O. Box 31311 Seattle, WA. 98103 MR.MARVIN@WORLDNET.ATT.NET Building KR2S. Tri gear with type IV motor. In the boat stage with gear attached and working on controls. - ------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:07:44 EST From: ECLarsen81 Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel delay < Received the following email from Dr. Selig. It speaks for its self. Right now I need to blow some more wind into my sail - most of it has gone out. >> Steve, Don't Sweat it, we'd all like to know the results, but as in the building of a plane "All in due time". He hasn't cancelled us, just delayed. We can't deny the students their time in the tunnel, one of them could be the next Rand, Rans, or Rutan. :-) Like some of the others, my check is in the mail. Wrote it out with the rest of my Christmas bills. Even if the project bombs and I don't believe it will (MNSHO), I'd like you to use my donation to offset your costs and efforts. Stiff Upper Lip, Ed Larsen P.S. Ross, There a check headed your way as well. Kepp up the good work. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 10:36:47 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! XZOSTD1 wrote: > > Should I Glass My Fuselage??? > > > Bill Huntley > Green Bay, WI. - ----------------- Bill: Martin and the others are correct, you do not need it. However, I am one that does the opposite of what I am told to do many times. I used 1/2 oz per yard cloth to cover the fuselage. This adds about 1 oz or 1 & 1/2 oz of weight per square yard of fusalage. I have worked with wood for many years and much of that was in the boat industry. Some habits are hard to break. My KR will be parked outside in the weather. Which means that the wood will shrink and move depending on the humidity and sun etc. With out the light weight glass and thin layer of epoxy the plywood will eventually form very small checks and splits. Just my experience here in the north west. Even with just a thin layer of epoxy with out the glass the plywood will still check from the swelling and shrinking from the weather. The glass and epoxy adds NO strength, and the only advantage is that your paint will last longer. Therefore, somewhat less maintainance will need to be done. If my KR was going to be in a hanger or covered some way, I would not have glassed the fuselage. Just my opinion. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:54:55 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: NLF Project Address Well as the designated whine steward for KRNet, you can send the NLF checks to: Steve Eberhart NEW TECHNOLOGY ASSOCIATES INC. POB 9227 Evansville, IN 47724 Randy Stein ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:17:45 -0500 From: george bell Subject: KR: [Fwd: Should I Glass My Fuselage?] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------810680C21557284022B1698A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------810680C21557284022B1698A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: michealmims@hotmail.com Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by mail-la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA25271 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotmail.com (F46.hotmail.com [207.82.250.57]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id LAA13967 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10808 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jan 1998 19:15:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19980104191501.10807.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.112.145.7 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:15:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.112.145.7] From: "Mike Mims" To: gpbell@pacbell.net Subject: Should I Glass My Fuselage? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:15:00 PST George, could you forward this along to the krnet for me? Thanks! XZOSTD1 wrote: > > Should I Glass My Fuselage??? > > > Bill Huntley > Green Bay, WI. - ----------------- Marvin wrote: >Bill: > Martin and the others are correct, you do not need it. >However, >I am one that does the opposite of what I am told to do many times. >I used 1/2 oz per yard cloth to cover the fuselage. This adds about >1 oz or 1 & 1/2 oz of weight per square yard of fusalage. > I have worked with wood for many years and much of that was in >the boat industry. Some habits are hard to break. My KR will be >parked outside in the weather. Good answer Marvin! Guys lets not be so darn absolute with your answers to these questions! I have been on vacation for the past two weeks and have been able to read post to the krnet but unable to respond. Some of the answers to that have been posted lately are so darn blunt and absolute its driving me (and others I assume) up the wall! Glassing the outside of your KR is an option that some have considered, if you live in a northern climate and plan to park outside then a layer of glass could be beneficial, if you live in a warmer dry climate and plan to hanger your baby (like me) everyday of its life than the glass may not be needed. The same goes for the nylaflow brake lines, if I lived in the colder climate I would not consider using nylaflow (trust me I know a little about cold environments). Cold temperatures are incredibly hard on everything, there is a line similar to nylaflow that is used for oil pressure gauges and I can assure you that the line will break in 2 years of use up here in the Great White North! On the other hand it will last forever in the warmer climates. Please lets try to offer what has worked for us and what has not and let the reader digest it and determine if it applies. FYI I used nylaflow brake lines (hangermate has had no problems in 3 years) and yes I glassed part of my fuselage, I used 8 oz glass and a little extra epoxy on the belly between the forward spar and the firewall, In my opinion a little extra oil proofing here could go along way. Is it needed ? I don't know but it seemed like a good idea at that time. Some of you may have noticed my web site is offline, the ISP took it offline because I exceeded 500 meg of throughput in December! I will contact them next week to see what's up. We woke up this morning to -10 degrees F and 40 knots of North Wind! What a vacation huh!?!? A piece of nylaflow out in the garage shattered like glass when I tired to bend it (garage not heated at this time)! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------810680C21557284022B1698A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for George P. Bell Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: George P. Bell n: Bell;George P. email;internet: gpbell@pacbell.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------810680C21557284022B1698A-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:32:57 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: KRNetiquette (the novel) KRNetHeads, Well, I haven't ticked anybody off lately so I guess I'm due. I'm not the official KRNet cop but would like to remind us all of a few things. We are sending a lot of messages back and forth that are unecessary. I realize that some of you guys don't have anything else to do, but it's a real effort for most of us to devote time to reading and commenting on all of these questions and messages. We've already lost Jeff Scott and other builder/pilots that have shared a wealth of information with us. I've thought several times about uns*bscribing due to the huge volume of mail that I have to wade through each day. I could have redrawn the plans several times if I'd used the half hour that I spent reading KRNet mail each day. Here are a few points to ponder: 1) Don't even bother to reply to a post if you don't have anything of any substance to add to the discussion. If you just want to say "yeah, me too", send it directly to the guy who asked or commented, not to the whole group. And this goes double for "gee, I don't know, but I'll try to find out". You never know. Somebody else may know the answer and save you BOTH a lot of work. 2) Try not to quote more of the contents of the original message than you have to. The usual format for answering a question is to start off with "Joe Blow wrote:" and then follow it with a enough lines of pertinent text to remind everybody of what the question was. Quoting somebody's 100 line novel justs wastes everybody's time scrolling past it all while looking for your contribution to the discussion. And by all means, quote SOMETHING, so the group will know what you're commenting on. I realize that different email applications work differently. I've had email that automatically added "Joe Blow wrote:" to the beginning, but I use something different now so I have to do it manually. And I still go to the trouble of shortening the original post to a few lines and then adding my 2 cents worth afterward. 3) We on KRNet agreed long ago to add our names and hometowns to our "signature" lines. This lets everybody know who's commenting, and helps keep the replies straight. The signature can be added to the bottom of every mail that you send. If you don't know how to create a signature line, find out and create one. 4) It is customary for newbies to introduce themselves with a few lines (or paragraphs) explaining who they are, their aviation-related credentials, and why they're subscribing to KRNet. It probably wouldn't hurt if we had an "introduction week" at the beginning of each year for the old-timers to illuminate the newbies as to who WE all are too. 5) Some of you guys like to comment on everything said on KRNet. I doubt that anybody is an expert on everything. I usually sit back and wait a while to see if somebody that knows more about something than I do will answer it. That way I don't come off as a know-it-all, and I learn stuff too. If a few days go by and nobody has commented on something, then I'll give it my best shot just to keep the issue from going completely unaddressed. 6) When I answer a question, you will rarely hear me say "This is the only way to do this" or "NO, don't do it!". That's because life is rarely black or white. There are several sides to every issue. Some apply to me, some apply to you. I learned from the Nylaflow discussion that some people have used it for many years with no ill effects, while others have seen it crumble in 2 years. Could it be that one of them sat out in the desert sun, and the other sat in a warm southern hangar? I don't know, but I now what to look out for. 7) Like Ed said, this is not a chat group. If you want to carry on a personal conversation with somebody, do it privately. I screw up occasionally and do this, but it's almost always an accident when I do. Just change the return address to a private one, rather than KRNet's. Adding your email address to your signature line makes this even easier to accomplish. 8) Use a little tact. You can tell somebody they're full of it in a nice way, without jumping down their throat or flaming them publicly. If you want to flame people, go back to rec.aviation.homebuilts. They enjoy that sort of thing over there. 9) And then there's the "cutesy pie drivel". Poking fun at others in a good natured way probably has its place, I just try to do it at the end of a posting in which I said something useful or helpful first. To waste a whole email on it is a waste of everyone's time. 10) On the postive side, I'd like to commend everyone for keeping to the subject at hand, KRs. We've sucessfully avoided religion, politics, and the other bugaboos that could bog us down in a hurry. We can't afford to lose our experienced builders and pilots who because we deluge them with so much superfluous email. Let's make it a little easier for us all, OK? I'm as guilty as the rest of you, but we have to try to do better. Well, I'm sure I've stepped on everybody's toes at least once, so I guess I'm done, 'til next time... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:09:52 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? Hi Bill, I'm glassing my fuselage with 1.45 oz silk weave, mainly just because it will make me feel better about the durability of the fuselage exterior surface (perhaps an unfounded comfort). Tony Bingelis recommends it, and some builders have done it. It's unnecessary, but it's your project so do what suits you. It may add weight, and that should be the factor weighed most heavily in your decision (oops, no pun intended). If you are using the proper finishing materials, you can get the same finish without the glass. I've got a copy of an article on KR finishing that Monte presented at the last gathering that I'd be happy to "share" with you. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:43:26 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! XZOSTD1 (Bill Huntly)wrote: > > Should I Glass My Fuselage??? Hi Bill, This one has come up a few times with mixed responses. I saw an older KR that spent a lot of outside time and it had checks in the paint on the fuselage. Also the boating world usually puts on a glass layer to protect the epoxy seal coat on wood boats. For these reasons I decided to glass my fuselage. BUT...I used 0.5 oz/yd fiberglass tissue to keep the weight down. (available through composite structures technologies... http://www.tminet.com/cst/). I doubt there's more than a few ounces added over just sealing it. Get back to me in twenty years and I'll tell you how it worked out! - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:56:33 EST From: Willard561 Subject: Re: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! How about using fiberglass for the fuselage skins like Ron Scott did for his aircraft (Old Ironsides). just a thought Bill Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:03:44 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Should I Glass My Fuselage???? and Green Bay Packers Rule!!!! I plan to glass my fuselage. If I can get the .58 oz. fiberglass that I used on my 1/4 R/C P-51 Mustang, I will used it, if not I will use what ever the lightest fiberglass I can get. John F. Esch Salem, OR http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > XZOSTD1 wrote: > > > > Should I Glass My Fuselage??? > > > > > > Bill Huntley > > Green Bay, WI. > > ----------------- > > Bill: > Martin and the others are correct, you do not need it. > However, > I am one that does the opposite of what I am told to do many times. I > > used 1/2 oz per yard cloth to cover the fuselage. This adds about 1 > oz > or 1 & 1/2 oz of weight per square yard of fusalage. > I have worked with wood for many years and much of that was in > > the boat industry. Some habits are hard to break. My KR will be > parked > outside in the weather. Which means that the wood will shrink and > move > depending on the humidity and sun etc. With out the light weight > glass > and thin layer of epoxy the plywood will eventually form very small > checks and splits. Just my experience here in the north west. Even > with just a thin layer of epoxy with out the glass the plywood will > still check from the swelling and shrinking from the weather. > The glass and epoxy adds NO strength, and the only advantage > is > that your paint will last longer. Therefore, somewhat less > maintainance > will need to be done. If my KR was going to be in a hanger or covered > > some way, I would not have glassed the fuselage. > Just my opinion. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net > --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:29:40 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Limbach...Bingham's articles Netters- I have found my back issues of March and Dec. '86 which Richard Mole requested, which contain articles by Neil Bingham on Limbach engine installation in the KR and tweaking same for speed and efficiency, and on "keeping it light"- weight and its effect on the KR. I am going to scan them for posting to Richard Mole, but if there is interest, they might get posted to the KRNet.org page, or to Langford's page. Some very very good info for those of you who are using or thinking of using the Limbach. If you are interested, post me privately...NOT to krnet, and we'll see what we can do. Thanks Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #3 ***************************