From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 8:35 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #5 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 005 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:34:47 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: Revmaster head problem KRNetheads: For informational purposes only, I forward this messages off of the QList. Paul has been working on his project for some time and is now flying. I'm not sure how long an engine builder is expected to stand behind his product and I know not what the dialog was between Paul and Joe, but here is the post FYI. I do know some of you have Revmaster engines, so if this applies, sorry. On the ground is the best place to discover such problems... Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: epaul@trib.com (Paul Spackman) < Subject: KR: Re: Digest V02.n001 came out OK! I've split the digests into 1997 & 1998 areas on my sparse but complete archive at: http://kr2s.timberline.com/krnet John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Ross Youngblood > To: Krnet Mailing list > Subject: KR: Digest V02.n001 came out OK! > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:54 AM > > The first KRNET-L digest V2 Issue 1 just popped out of majordomo > Saturday. It started with posts from Jan2. I'm assuming that the > last V01 issue of the digest has some New Years day stuff. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:26:04 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Revmaster head problem In a message dated 98-01-05 22:06:17 EST, you write: << You can tell if you are one of the unlucky ones by looking inside the valve cover and by the cutout for the lower sparkplug you will see a large E. >> Thanks for the heads up, Randy. I just checked my heads, no E's. For the record, though, Revmaster is still in the engine business, or at least they still were three months ago. I've heard of folks having problems with them, but I've spoken to Joe Horvath several times and he has always been very helpful. I'm tearing down the top of my engine right now for a look see, as it has been sitting for about 10 years and I'm sure is in need of some work. I'll let the list know what kind of support I get from Revmaster should I find any problems that require their help. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:05:09 EST From: TANDEM2 Subject: Re: KR: NLF wind tunnel delay steve, this is not a problem for me about the set back, as a matter of fact it will now allow me to get you some money to help out on the project now that i have gone back to work. i hope this has not let you give up? the project is very important to all of us and we will just have to wait, heck, i have been waiting for this for a few years now so a couple of months more will not make any difference, at least to me it won't. you have done such a good job, my hat comes off to you. thank you for all the hard work you have put into this project. tandem2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:48:02 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: NASA Flight Test Web Page Here is a web site for those of you who are interested in an introduction to the whats, hows and whys of flight test. Pretty good reading. http://trc.dfrc.nasa.gov/ftintro Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:04:50 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Test Plan Update >I just published the latest and (I think) greatest version of my test plan to >my web page. Major changes in version 7: I finally got to your web page today at work (where I have a computer with Netscape). However, the test plan is not printed out in full there, but is in a form that has to be opened somehow, and I couldn't figure out how to do it. Does anybody's web page have the test plan already opened and printed out so I can just read it? If you're thinking from the above that I'm not exactly computer literate, you win a gold star. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:34:42 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Test Plan Update In a message dated 98-01-06 00:21:22 EST, Mike Taglieri writes: << I finally got to your web page today at work (where I have a computer with Netscape). However, the test plan is not printed out in full there, but is in a form that has to be opened somehow... >> The files on my web site are in 2 downloadable formats, Word 7.0 and rich text format (RTF). If your word processor can't translate the Word file, it should be able to read the RTF file. If anybody has problems getting these to work, email me privately and tell me what word processor you are using and I'll fix you up. I'm not smart enough to figure out how to get MS Publisher to import the whole document into my web page, that's why it's not in HTML so that you can read it online. If someone can educate me, I'm more than willing to learn! The only thing is, the current version is 56 pages long. Hmmm..... Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:08:48 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Protecting Plans (Aft Horz. Spar Bulkhead Dimensions) >> Help! Perhaps I'm missing this measurement in the plans, but I haven't >> found the proper length of the Aft Horz. Spar Bulkhead. Can someone >> provide this measurement? > >John, > >Like many of the dimensions in the plans, I had to scale that one off the >drawing. I think it's shown going about 3/4 of the way down, and I made >mine as wide as I could without it sticking out into the wind. I actually >extended mine (and the verticals that it fastens to) all the way to the >lower longeron too, but later figured out why it doesn't go all the way. >There has to be some way to access the nuts that hold your tailwheel on. >Fortunately this was before I glued it in, so I left a half moon shaped >hole down there for swinging a ratchet. To understand this post I had to get out the drawings, which usually sit safely in my filing cabinet. Thrashing around with Drawing #1 like someone putting up a pup tent, I suddenly realized what a hellacious mess it's gonna be dealing with these damn things when I actually start building. What do people do with them? Are blueprints fade-resistant enough to stick up on the wall in the workshop, or do you photocopy the relevant portions and keep the big drawings put away? Since several unrelated things are on the big drawings, has anyone tried cutting them up into more manageable pieces? My drawings have never been used, but they're already getting yellow at the folds, so should I unfold them and roll them up for storage? Incidentally, to extend the rear bulkhead to the bottom and still access the tailwheel nuts, how about just using nutplates? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:24:12 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Protecting Plans Mike Taglieri wrote: >I suddenly realized what a hellacious mess it's gonna > be dealing with these damn things when I actually start building. What do > people do with them? Are blueprints fade-resistant enough to stick up on the > wall in the workshop, or do you photocopy the relevant portions and keep the > big drawings put away? Mike, I'll tell you what I did, anyway. I fed them into a giant Xerox (TM) copier at work and made a complete set in black and white. Fade resistant, and far easier to read. Then, with my originals safely tucked away, I cut the new ones up into manageable slices. Then I slowly digested the plans and redrew the side and top views on CAD, trying to make sense of it all, and incorporating my widening at the shoulders and lengthening of the tail. And because I'm "somewhat" anal retentive, I took each 5/8 spruce member out of the assembly and detailed the length and angles of cuts on the ends. I don't think I ever used these, because I discovered the angles were so each to measure using a T-bevel and protractor. I'm not saying that you have to go through these gymnastics to build a KR at all. Lots of people have done it without any problems, and I could have too. And by the way, I didn't count this sort of stuff in my building time, and I have lots of it. I wouldn't be surprised if you could add another 500 hours for R&D stuff. And you're right about tailwheel nut plates. But since tail wheel mounting is not even IN the plans, they left that hole there for the eventuallity that you might decide you need to do something about your tail dragging on the ground back there before your first flight. Nutplates are certainly the way to go, though. I don't need them because my aft deck is easily removeable. I think the bottom line is to read and understand the plans and manual several times BEFORE you even start the whole hellacious mess so you'll be thinking WAY ahead before you get there. I'll bet I've spent half of my "building" time standing around staring at things wondering how I'm going to connect it to something that's not even in my mind yet, much less in the plans. The good news is that with this experience, my next one is going to be downright awesome, and much quicker to build... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:09:31 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville III - The Atlanta Road Trip << We've got at least three Atlanta area KRNetters on go for the trip to Huntsville to visit Mark Langford's basement. >> >Mark, make room for more. I plan on flying in from Richmond, KY in the 172, >weather permitting, that Saturday. Look at the map, if anyone is remotely of >my route or if you can get to Richmond which is just south of Lexington, send >me a private e-mail and we'll work it out. Mark, hope you got a big basement. >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ Hey, don't forget me! Remember, I'll be flying my Tomahawk down with an empty seat from Columbus, OH, (also wx permitting). If there's one person somewhere along the "direct" route desiring a lift, just let me know. Ed Newbold Columbus, OH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:59:06 EST From: XZOSTD1 Subject: KR: KINKO'S Copies Blueprints My local KINCO'S franchise copies blueprints. I made multiple copies and cut them up. Store your prints rolled up in a length of 3" PVC with end caps. Bill Huntley Green Bay, (Go Pack) WI. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:08:32 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Ballistic chute questions?? On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Donald Reid wrote: [snip] > Am am also planning on a chute. If there is no other response, let's > keep the traffic private and off the net. I have some ideas and will > share. I know we all are trying to become politically correct in our posts but this is a topic that I am very interrested in and I would think a benefit to a lot of KR builders. I vote for keeping this thread on line. IF protecting the lives of KR builders isn't relavent what is? Steve Eberhart, Evansville, IN newtech@newtech.com http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html (thanks to M. Langford, recently updated) http://www.evansville.net/~newtech (glass panel information) http://www.newtech.com/europa/europa.html (1:24 scale model Europa) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 06:51:35 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Huntsville III Mark- Set up a videocam in the corner of the room and let it run after everybody gets there. Sell copies of the video as "Builder's Basement: A KR Workshop". Donate proceeds to NLF fund. ;o) PS- Hide empty beer cans before starting the videocam. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:08:27 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: KR: Choice of Metal for Spar Insert Not too long ago, there was a discussion about tie-down rings. Someone(maybe Bobby Muse) has a set that are removable and screw into inserts in the wing spars. I can't recall whether he used steel or aluminum for the insert. Which would be preferable? Steel would make for more durable threads, but what is the potential for rusting of a piece of steel that's floxed into the spar? Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Tyrone, Ga. Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:16:06 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: New KR Guy - Old questions In a message dated 98-01-05 22:04:58 EST, you write: << I have not been able to locate a HAPI original alternator, although Steve Bennett at Great Plains could offer a modified alternator which would require modification to the HAPI accessory case at considerable expense. >> Welcome New Guy I believe if you check you will find the HAPI accessory case is made of magnesium and you know what magnesium does when exposed to fire. You are going in the right direction in the improvements you have done to the engine, the machine work to accept the force hub will make for a much more reliable engine. My two cents worth says to go with a Diehl accessory case and alternator, you will probably be able to use the existing flywheel with a slick mag. and the mag. puck from Steve. The only change you would then have to make is to manufacture the mag. pickup that bolts onto the flywheel, as the one Steve offers is not designed for that flywheel. Good luck and welcome. Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:00:40 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Gathering video, NLF info KRNetHeads, I worked on my web page a little and added Video Bob's address, as well as spruced up the NLF page a bit. Got Bob's Gathering video and couldn't help but watch it from one end to the other. Very inspiring stuff, watching KRs blast around having fun. Hope to be doing some of that myself someday. Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html . They're sized to fit a 48" piece of plywood, so if the chord grows, things will get messier from a plywood standpoint, but I can make longer plots pretty easily. I also added a new plot of NLF characteristics at low Reynolds numbers, for those that are into that sort of thing. And there's a graphical comparison of the RAF48 vs NLF(1)-0115. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:42:22 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Risk of fire from magnesium ><< I have not been able to locate a HAPI original alternator, > although Steve Bennett at Great Plains could offer a modified > alternator which would require modification to the HAPI accessory > case at considerable expense. >> >Welcome New Guy >I believe if you check you will find the HAPI accessory case is made of >magnesium and you know what magnesium does when exposed to fire. . . . I agree with the rest of this post, but the increased chance of fire with a HAPI case is probably insignificant, since the VW crankcase has always been made of magnesium alloy anyway (although Bennett and others may be using something else now). If the HAPI accessory case is made of the same material as the crankcase, the risk of fire should be similar, and I don't recall Beetles going up in flames anymore than other cars. Our memory of magnesium burning instantly with dazzling light, etc., is probably from childhood chemistry sets, but that was magnesium ribbon which has a much greater surface exposed to the air than a magnesium casting on an engine. Even steel will burn nicely if there's enough surface area, which you can demonstrate by lighting a piece of steel wool. I suspect that if a VW engine with HAPI accessory case caught fire, many other things would go long before the crankcase or the accessory case reached a danger point. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:11:29 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: Re: Protecting Plans I had my plans copied 1/2 scale at a local blueprint place using a BIG Xerox(TM). These can be folded across the top yielding something 11" tall. I hole punched this copy then accordion folded it to approximately 8" wide & tucked it in the back of the 3 ring binder. While away from the shop, I've got the whole shooting match with me. While building, I usually can get the info I need by looking at the 1/2 scale sheets. If I need a "closer look at things", I pull the originals out a mailing tube where they sleep for safe keeping... Mark, my plans have tail wheel mounting details, well sort of... John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Mark Langford > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Re: Protecting Plans > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 3:24 AM > > Mike Taglieri wrote: > > >I suddenly realized what a hellacious mess it's gonna > > be dealing with these damn things when I actually start building. What > do > > people do with them? Are blueprints fade-resistant enough to stick up on > the > > wall in the workshop, or do you photocopy the relevant portions and keep > the > > big drawings put away? > > Mike, > > I'll tell you what I did, anyway. I fed them into a giant Xerox (TM) > copier at work and made a complete set in black and white. Fade resistant, > and far easier to read. Then, with my originals safely tucked away, I cut > the new ones up into manageable slices. Then I slowly digested the plans > and redrew the side and top views on CAD, trying to make sense of it all, > and incorporating my widening at the shoulders and lengthening of the tail. > And because I'm "somewhat" anal retentive, I took each 5/8 spruce member > out of the assembly and detailed the length and angles of cuts on the ends. > I don't think I ever used these, because I discovered the angles were so > each to measure using a T-bevel and protractor. > > I'm not saying that you have to go through these gymnastics to build a KR > at all. Lots of people have done it without any problems, and I could have > too. And by the way, I didn't count this sort of stuff in my building > time, and I have lots of it. > I wouldn't be surprised if you could add another 500 hours for R&D stuff. > > And you're right about tailwheel nut plates. But since tail wheel mounting > is not even IN the plans, they left that hole there for the eventuallity > that you might decide you need to do something about your tail dragging on > the ground back there before your first flight. Nutplates are certainly > the way to go, though. I don't need them because my aft deck is easily > removeable. > > I think the bottom line is to read and understand the plans and manual > several times BEFORE you even start the whole hellacious mess so you'll be > thinking WAY ahead before you get there. I'll bet I've spent half of my > "building" time standing around staring at things wondering how I'm going > to connect it to something that's not even in my mind yet, much less in the > plans. The good news is that with this experience, my next one is going > to be downright awesome, and much quicker to build... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:30:41 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Re: NLF info >Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you >contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, >at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html . I also >added a new plot of NLF characteristics at low Reynolds numbers, for those >that are into that sort of thing. And there's a graphical comparison of >the RAF48 vs NLF(1)-0115. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL This was an interesting site. I did not understand the graphs, but I am just a bubba. It seems that the alleged benefit of the NLF is lower drag and a lower stall speed. Now I understand that the wind tunnel test is also to modify the NLF in question to better fit the flying characteristics of the KR. As a wag, how much increase speed could one expect with the NLF, assuming that the incidence is set appropriately? I also noted that the wing core hotwiring was not done ideally. Rutan suggested that the top and bottom cuts be made WITHOUT moving the foam. The reason is that a minor non-level surface would be exaggerated by flipping the foam over. I know this from first hand experience on a canard that I will rebuild. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:28:45 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: Test Plan in HTML It's not pretty, but it's there. Go to http://members.aol.com/eaglegator/page1.html to read the test plan online. You can step through one page at a time, through all 48 (yikes) pages. I left out the tables and spread sheets, you'll have to get those from the regular files. I'll upload all future revisions in Word 2.0 format, hopefully that will work for more people. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:21:31 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR:Great Web Page Hey everyone.... Check out the following page if you haven't done so before: http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm The guy that has it is a DAR and he has some great info about registering a homebuilt. He also has the checklist that he uses when he inpsects a homebuilt. He has inspected over 100 homebuilts in the past five years. =09 Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:08:41 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: NLF Websites Hey KRNetheads: These two guys deserve a round of applause (I hear the clapping of the keyboards as I write). Go take a look at the NLF sites as listed below. And to think this is a grass roots effort. Good job: Steve Eberhart’s NLF site: http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html Mark Langfor’s NLF site: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:44:30 -0500 From: george bell Subject: Re: KR: my construction photos This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------642F5BC6FC2D14A0DAB9000A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HeyMike, I would like to have the file. George Bell Micheal Mims wrote: > I have a self extracting zip file that contains 240 images of my KR > construction. If anyone is interested I can send it to you and you can post > it on your server for others to download. I don't have room on my server or > I would do it for the benefit (or for laughs) of all. The file is about > 2.8 meg. > > If there is an interest I could make three smaller zip files. Let me know! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > \ / > _\/\/_ > _____/_//\\_\_____ > > F-117 - --------------642F5BC6FC2D14A0DAB9000A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for George P. Bell Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: George P. Bell n: Bell;George P. email;internet: gpbell@pacbell.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------642F5BC6FC2D14A0DAB9000A-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:51:28 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: Gathering video, NLF info Mark Langford wrote: Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you > contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, > at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html ........And there's a graphical comparison of the RAF48 vs NLF(1)-0115. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford Mark, That's great stuff. Many Thanks Bruce S. Campbell Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:41:09 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Wheelpants -- Non Member submission? Al wrote: > I want to put some wheel pants on my project, but am wondering if any of > > you have already done so. > If this is the case can you give me some insight as to where I can buy a > > rough set, or something which will fit the Diehl gear? > Also any construction tips would be appreciated. > Thanks > Al Al, I used the wheelpants from Rand, and the lower trim pieces from Dan Deihl. Getting everything to fit properly took some time, but it is worth it. I just got mine installed permanently, and they really make a big difference in how the plane looks. Have not flown with them on, so I cant tell you how much speed you will get. I will keep you posted. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:23 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Risk of fire from magnesium In a message dated 98-01-06 23:55:33 EST, you write: << I suspect that if a VW engine with HAPI accessory case caught fire, many other things would go long before the crankcase or the accessory case reached a danger point. Mike Taglieri >> Mike and the New Guy, I did not intend to imply that the case would be the first thing to go up in the event of a fire in a KR, but I'll take my flame (no pun) and go on. In fact, the reason I know of the machining of a mag pickup is that I am still using the HAPI accessory case and alternator on my engine. So I must not be too worried. As to the alternator not providing enough amps, you have to think, enough juice for who. Look at my instrument panel on my web page, I'm getting ready to add my transponder and will have enough amps, close but enough. With todays electronics, the amps may be enough to suffice, that is if you got the old one from the guy, or he knows where he "stored" it. Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:02:41 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: NLF Templates > Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you >> contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, >> at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html ........And there's a graphical comparison of the RAF48 vs NLF(1)-0115. >> >> Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL I noticed four templates. Do you anticipate that four are needed to properly use to cut out the foam and have a smoothly transitioning wing? I also suspect that at some point the cut out for the spars will have to be added. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:11:54 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Re: NLF info On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Ron Lee wrote: > >Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you > >contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, > >at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html . I also [snip] > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > > This was an interesting site. I did not understand the graphs, but I am just > a bubba. It seems that the alleged benefit of the NLF is lower drag and a > lower stall speed. Now I understand that the wind tunnel test is also to > modify the NLF in question to better fit the flying characteristics of the KR. > > As a wag, how much increase speed could one expect with the NLF, assuming that > the incidence is set appropriately? I have a meeting scheduled with Ashok (UofI) Friday and will pose the question to him. Since he is doing a design analysis of the KR-2S and will be designing the new airfoil under Dr. Seligs guidance we should be able to get some indications of the improvements that can be expected. My gut feelings at this time are that the improvements are going to come from several areas. THe new airfoil should have a geater lift enabling a smaller wing to be used to achieve the same lift hense lower drag because it is smaller. The drag coefficients of the new airfoil will most definately be lower than the RAF48, which was designed in the 1920's. The new wing will most likely be at a smaller incidence angle and there will probably be less washout - both of which will reduce drag. There will also probably be an increase in aspect ratio which will reduce drag in both the climb and high altitude cruise conditions. We should also be able to get the incidence and wing size set properly so that we will have the fuselage flying at its lowest drag angle, i.e. level rather than a higher drag nose down attitude. THis list of drag reductions cover many of the major drag contributors and should result in a noticable increase in cruise speed. Maybe Mark Lougheed, Richard Mole or some of the other aerodynamicists on the list can expand on this. This new airfoil and the high level design analysis and guidance that is being provided by at least six exceptional aeronautical engineers and aerodynamicists from both the University of Illinois and this list lead me to believe that this is going to result in a most pleasing improvement in the KR. > > I also noted that the wing core hotwiring was not done ideally. Rutan > suggested > that the top and bottom cuts be made WITHOUT moving the foam. The reason > is that > a minor non-level surface would be exaggerated by flipping the foam over. > I know > this from first hand experience on a canard that I will rebuild. > The hotwiring illustrated on the NLF wep page http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html may be misleading. If you look at the pictures on the web site you will notice the black templates on the end of the foam block. THere are two templates for each end, a template for the bottom surface and a template for the upper surface. THe lower surface is cut first and then the templates, that are referrenced to the tooling plate, are changed and the upper surface is cut. Since I cut the airfoil upside down the referrences to upper and lower surfaces of the foam block actually refer to the opposite surfaces of the wing. THe foam block is never moved. THis procedure actually results in a very true core due to the 5/8" tooling plate that the core is cut on and the automatic nature of the hotwiring tool that was used, it automatically cuts the foam at a constant rate rather than being hand cut by two people. Hope this helps describe the operation a little better. Steve Eberhart, Evansville, IN newtech@newtech.com http://www.newtech.com/nlf/nlf.html http://www.evansville.net/~newtech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:24:25 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Re: NLF info On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Ron Lee wrote: > I also noted that the wing core hotwiring was not done ideally. Rutan > suggested > that the top and bottom cuts be made WITHOUT moving the foam. The reason > is that > a minor non-level surface would be exaggerated by flipping the foam over. > I know > this from first hand experience on a canard that I will rebuild. > OK I will fess up. My previous post about the hotwiring process was correct about being able to make very good cores using the method shown PROVIDED the templates are accurate. I ended up with an error in the template for the upper wing surface on one end of the core. Since the wing is made in three sections I ended up with a saw tooth span wise profile. Since I purposly made the core undersize to allow a thicker coat of dry micro this was only an anoyance rather than a problem. Hind sight, I should have made a new template since it resulted in more work in the profiling process. Dr. Selig provided me with a set of precision CNC machined profile templates that the wing has to agree with +- .005", these were used as the template for the profiling and finishing operation. I will update the web page showing the finished wing next week. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:31:03 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: my construction photos Same here Mike John F. Esch Salem, OR http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch george bell wrote: > HeyMike, I would like to have the file. > > George Bell > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > I have a self extracting zip file that contains 240 images of my KR > > construction. If anyone is interested I can send it to you and you > can post > > it on your server for others to download. I don't have room on my > server or > > I would do it for the benefit (or for laughs) of all. The file is > about > > 2.8 meg. > > > > If there is an interest I could make three smaller zip files. Let > me know! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Micheal Mims > > Just Plane Nutts in Irvine Ca. > > mailto:mimsmand@ix.netcom.com > > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand > > > > \ / > > _\/\/_ > > _____/_//\\_\_____ > > > > F-117 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > George P. Bell > > George P. Bell > > Netscape Conference Address > Netscape Conference DLS Server > Additional Information: > Last Name Bell > First Name George P. > Version 2.1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:32:55 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Control Stops :Forwarded Post You wrote: >inspector noticed no control stops Houston, we have a problem. Installing control stops after the fact should be a most interesting problem. According to the dusty books that all the old dead guys wrote about control surfaces design, the control stops should be located at the control surface, not too close to the hinges (sorry Mark; I would be leery of putting the stops at the stick or rudder pedal end of the controls). That almost surely means getting out the saw and cutting in to get to the control horns to install stops. It's either that, or go ahead and try to get by with stops located in the cockpit somewhere. Not the best choice, but certainly an option. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:36:17 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: HAPI case Netters; Some weeks back, Paul Martin located a KR-2 here in Oregon which got wet; it's ruined, I think. But- as I recall, it has/had a VW, and maybe a HAPI case with accessories...? So, I will get in touch with Paul to see if it's still around, and if there is a HAPI on it. Maybe we can get the necessary parts for the guy who needs them. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:35:06 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: NLF Templates On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Ron Lee wrote: > > > Also, I added a drawing of the NLF templates that you'll get if you > >> contribute $100 to the NLF fund, as well as Steve's address to send it to, > >> at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/knlf.html ........And there's a > graphical comparison of the RAF48 vs NLF(1)-0115. > >> > >> Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > > I noticed four templates. Do you anticipate that four are needed to properly > use to cut out the foam and have a smoothly transitioning wing? I also > suspect > that at some point the cut out for the spars will have to be added. > The FeatherCut hotwiring machine that I use requires the separate top and bottom templates. It automatically drags the hotwire bow through the foam from back to front. If you look closely to the pictures you will see the red wires attached to the nicrome wire, these are connected, via pulleys, to a weighted arm that pulls the wire through the foam. This forces you to use two templates for each end. THe nice thing is you have minimal wire lag, hense less scooping due to the bowed wire. Down side is you have to make four templates rather than two. If you check the current version of the web page there is a picture, recently added, at the bottom that has a section of the foam showing the spar and aileron LE cutouts. THis required two additional templates and was cut conventionally by hand. No, you don't have to have the separate templates if you use the two person hand method of cutting the foam. I feel that the FeatherCut machine results in a more accurate core because the reference base of each template rests firmly on your bench and if your bench is true and your templates are true your cores will be true. THe top layer of glass is applied with the core firmly nested in its lower core which is located in the same place on the bench that it was cut on. After application of the glass, peelply and a release film is applied to the wet glass and the topcore is put back on and the whole thing weighted down during cure. Most all errors will be from errors in your templates with this method. The standard two person method requires a single airfoil template to be pinned to each end of the foam. THe placement and alignment of the templates is the drawback of this method. It is easy for a template to move during cutting. Steve ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #5 ***************************