From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 1998 5:37 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #9 krnet-l-digest Sunday, January 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 009 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:02:59 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: Re(2): KR: Accident Stats At 02:32 AM 1/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>>The problem may be that people in all planes tend to panic when they lose an engine, maybe because they never get practice at it after they get their ticket. In the trainer planes you learn on, the instructor is always pulling the engine so you can practice emergency landings>>>>> Something else to keep in mind, when you are in a climb situation and have a power failure your aircraft decelerates VERY fast! I have heard that a the light little KR decelerates even faster than a typical trainer. Combine this with a slightly over and aft loaded airplane and the results are not good! Aft loaded aircraft seem to fly ok during climb with full power so the pilot is under the impression everything is OK, its when you pull the power back and try to level off at cruise and the damn thing wont settle down that you soon figure out something is wrong! Pull the power off for landing and then the dukey really hits the fan! Pucker factor increases to the 10th power as you roll in nose down trim and notice the control yoke is against the forward stop! Been there done that and I DON'T EVER WANT TO DO IT AGAIN!! Now imagine that you just departed your favorite runway and during climb-out all seems dandy, then as the engine sound goes away you find yourself decelerating rapidly,.. of course you lower your nose to keep flying speed but the stick is against the forward stop and the nose is still rising! Life all of a sudden really sucks!! You can fly over gross but by all means don't fly with an aft CG! It was the one and only time an airplane really scared me, can you tell? :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:29:48 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Looking for Calvin Campbell Bob Vermeulen wrote: > > Hey gang, > I'm trying to mail a KR video tape to Calvin Campbell and it's been > returned, wrong address. I think I have the right address now. Broken > Arrow, Oklahoma. Can anybody confirm this. Thanks for the help. For all > of you that have ordered in the past 7-10 days, I'm now all caught up and > you'll be getting your videos in a few days. Ahh, the wait only makes it > more worthwhile when you get it. > > Video Bob Bob, I have his E-Mail at work as calcamp@ocdis01.tinker.af.mil Tom tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:37:39 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: KR Accident summary (NTSB database) MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > Interesting to note that with all the talk on this net about the poor > design or beefier mods required. There has not been one in flight > failure of the airframe or structure !!!! > Jean > N4DD ( 21 years old and still flying ) > Broken Arrow, OK Jean, I (and probably others) would be interested in hearing what kind of structural modifications you will be making to "Old Blue" before you install that 0-200. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:48:41 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Control Stops Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 06:30 AM 1/9/98 PST, you wrote: > >Whoa, babe! No stops? I'm going back to look at my plans; I thought > >the control travel limits/minima were all listed, and the control > >surface travels physically self-limited by the way the gap seals and > >aileron spars are constructed. > > > >Oscar Zuniga > > I don't know if the plans say anything about it but it kinda obvious that > the control horns for the elevator and rudder are by design the stops. At > least on my control horns anyway. The ailerons are another animal, I have > no idea how to setup control stops on the ailerons. This was not a problem when I was setting up my ailerons. The problem was getting enough travel by doing some judicious clearancing here and there. The down aileron (hinge closed) acts as a stop for the up aileron. When all was done, I was able to JUST get the specified travel. As someone has already noted, the rudder and elevator horns are self limiting. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:55:50 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Wisconsin lighting coil at spinner LightingCoilHeads, I'll try to call Don Betchan this weekend and find out more about his power generation setup. I'll let ya'll know what I find out. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:09:04 -0600 From: Ed Janssen Subject: Re: KR: Accident Stats >One accident report states that the pilot crashed during high speed taxi >because he forgot that he was holding the stick full back. He took off >vertically, went up 50 feet and crashed. This is not a test pilot's >typical reactions. He had no business being in the plane. >-Tom > This KR wasn't recently completed, either. It had nearly 1500 hours on the AF! This guy was a new owner, just bought the aircraft, no experience in type and was fast taxiing in gusty conditions! Go figure! Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:49:45 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: FS: KR1 Old Style retracts It's time to clean up the shop as the boat is coming off the table! I have available the RR stock retract system; spring bar, hinge castings, gear legs, & tail spring/pivot/wheel. It is currently mounted on a KR1 I purchased as a project; I measured the spring bar @ 48" which is a no-go for a KR2. I'm hoping to use the Azuza wheel/ drum brake assembly, but it could go as a "landing gear package" . If this would help someone, reply as addressed below. I'm sure I'd accept any reasonable offer. John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:56:55 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? I'm keeping my resins in a "warm box, a cabinet in the garage with a light bulb. The thermometer shows 68 - 75 F. I'm noticed that both T-88 and Aeropoxy PH3660 hardeners both take on a very harsh smell some time (2 months?) after the container is opened. I'm stopped using that container at that point due to the possibility that it has "gone funny" on me. Anyone know why this happens? If not, I'll call System3 on Monday & report back to the list. John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - fitting the top cross members Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:28:53 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: L.E. Landing Light Lens. Hi gang, I've just made a mold for forming a plexi-glass landing light cover for the leading edge. I'll be trying it this weekend... I'm actually looking forward to learning a new process. Any tips? - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:39:18 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: L.E. Landing Light Lens. At 10:28 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hi gang, > >I've just made a mold for forming a plexi-glass landing light cover for >the leading edge. I'll be trying it this weekend... I'm actually >looking forward to learning a new process. Any tips? > >-Peter Hudson- > > You have covered the mould with felt, you've greased it. And you have arranged an oven to heat the hanging plexiglas EVENLY til it gets floppy? ...Then your success is guaranteed ( according to Pazmany ) brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:37:58 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Ballast for flight test Hi gang, So I was thinking about flying KRs and flight tests and such. (It's a ways off but it's fun to think about it!) I'm considering the idea of a water tank designed to fit in the passenger seat and perhaps one forward on the floor and one aft at the baggage compartment. The idea is to be able to take off at gross with a forward CG then at a safe altitude shift the water aft for flight testing aft cg limits. I would plan a way to dump the water fast in case of trouble or transfer it forward again. I can't help but picture an almost passenger looking water tank getting passed around the KRnet community for flight testing. Any thoughts? - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:54:58 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Ballast for flight test At 10:37 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >... I'm considering the idea of a >water tank designed to fit in the passenger seat and perhaps one >forward on the floor and one aft at the baggage compartment. The idea >is to be able to take off at gross with a forward CG then at a safe >altitude shift the water aft for flight testing aft cg limits. I would >plan a way to dump the water fast in case of trouble or transfer it >forward again. ... >-Peter Hudson- > This is a new one to me. Competition sailplane pilots are adept at dumping water ballast - and this is key to survival when you are exploring the aft ( suicide) limit. If you read Mike Mimms alaskan pilot account of aft CG with stick at the forward stop - you will realise that this was a VERY rare and valuable account. Most pilots who have experienced this effect, only saw it once - then crashed. I would want you to be able to dump all the aft water within a second or two. You have doubtless considered another testing idea: the fore/aft PVC pipe with a sliding weight that can be cranked backwards, and forwards FAST! brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:45:39, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Internet Message Tom ( and Others ) N4DD has been stripped firewall forward and upper longeron up from firewall to pannel. I will be lengthing the upper shelf to the -2S plan length and adding aluminum angle brackets from the upper motor mount attach point to the sides. I made an engine mount jig that widens the attach points to within 2" of the sides. The engine mount is done and in primer now. I bonded a new firewall over the old one because it was just cabinet grade plywood and is made to the -2s configuraton. This was done so that we can make a -2S O-200 cowl mould. It also cleans up the cowl lines to run straight back into the sides and not have the cheeks. I will also reinforce the firewall junction inside with some uni and epoxy. The widening of the fuselage is taking longer than planned but should be worth it. Jean N4DD ( 21 years flying ) Broken Arrow, OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:29:47 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: KR:John Roffey's Pics John Roffey's rudder pedal and misc. pics are now on my site. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:23:01 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Control Stops MikeT nyc wrote: > Arguing to the inspector that the controls are self-limiting and don't exceed > the recommended limits (assuming they don't) is probably the best way to > deal with this problem. > > Mike Taglieri Perhaps another way to deal with it is to get the inspector to show you what FAR states that a control stop is required. There is no requirement of which I am aware. This is a good practice, but no legal requirement. The FAR's require certain things like compass, oil pressure and temperature, airspeed, etc., but they also say you can do almost anything you want. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:28:24 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Ballast for flight test Peter Hudson wrote: > I'm considering the idea of a > water tank designed to fit in the passenger seat and perhaps one > forward on the floor and one aft at the baggage compartment. The idea > is to be able to take off at gross with a forward CG then at a safe > altitude shift the water aft for flight testing aft cg limits. > -Peter Hudson- The idea seems to have some promise, but I think the water might be too slow. How about a loop of cable (or similar) with your ballast weight attached. Move it like an "endless" clothsline. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:47:55 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. PG21 of my '86 vintage plans shows the outer fwd spar with webbing for 12-1/2" on both sides inboard. The fwd webbing on the outer fwd spar does not continue past this point. The aft spar has webbing only over the 2nd and 3rd verticle members. So the FWD spar does have webbing on both sides of the fitting, but the aft spar does not. At least according to my version of the plans. -- Ross Austin Clark wrote: > > >-Tom in Orlando Wrote > > > > I noticed that the KR-2 plan does not call for sheeting on the rear of the > outer spar, only on the front of it. > > Tom, I could be wrong but I think the outer spars for the KR2S DO get the > shear web on both sides. I was confused on this point when I built my > spars and later added the webing on the other side. My WAF fit-ups are > snug, but they fit. I think this detail is in the supplemental drawings for > the KR2S. I will recheck the drawings. > > Austin Clark > Pascagoula, MS > http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:01:53 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: NTSB Accident stats Jean, You are probably correct. Neither the FAA or NTSB has the manpower to do a reconstruction on homebuilt accidents. I should note that the NTSB and the FAA are seperate entities and each has databases we can look into for crash statistics. The FAA BBS was a dial in setup which I looked into about three years ago. I don't know if they are on the WEB yet. -- Ross MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > If you are interested in the real story, ask his brother Calvin at > the next gathering. The FAA is close but not quite accurate. They > really don't care what happens to homebuilts. > Jean > N4DD > Broken Arrow, OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:59:05 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. At 07:47 PM 1/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >PG21 of my '86 vintage plans shows the outer fwd spar with webbing >for 12-1/2" on both sides inboard. The fwd webbing on the outer fwd >spar does not continue past this point. > >The aft spar has webbing only over the 2nd and 3rd verticle members. > >So the FWD spar does have webbing on both sides of the fitting, but >the aft spar does not. At least according to my version of the plans. > Yep I think your right, also while at the hanger today I fit my outer spar caps, two pieces of 3/32 ply and the two WAFs into the WAFs on the center spar just to double check. It fit perfectly! There was a few thousands clearance but the fit is what I call perfect! Man I don't know what I did wrong but it worked! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:04:08 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: Accident Stats Rick, I downloaded & printed the test plan. In word 7.0 it looked like I was reading a proof/draft copy as there were several entries with lines struck through them. I downloaded this some time ago, so let me know if I need to get a newer copy. I printed the test cards. Nice. I'm not sure if I will mount my video camera in the cockpit, but it is a good idea. Perhaps a lot of duct tape...:) - -- Ross EagleGator wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-09 22:21:40 EST, you write: > > << I would really like for folks to take a look at the test plan I'm working > on > and have posted on my web site. >> > > Dag nab it, I did it again!!!! The URL is http://members.aol.com/eaglegator. > > Cheers! > Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:57:06 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Spar width errors in plans. Ross wrote> >>PG21 of my '86 vintage plans shows the outer fwd spar with webbing >>for 12-1/2" on both sides inboard. The fwd webbing on the outer fwd >>spar does not continue past this point. >> >>The aft spar has webbing only over the 2nd and 3rd verticle members. >> >>So the FWD spar does have webbing on both sides of the fitting, but >>the aft spar does not. At least according to my version of the plans. >> Michael wrote> >Yep I think your right, also while at the hanger today I fit my outer spar >caps, two pieces of 3/32 ply and the two WAFs into the WAFs on the center >spar just to double check. It fit perfectly! There was a few thousands >clearance but the fit is what I call perfect! Man I don't know what I did >wrong but it worked! :o) If you are building a KR2, this is correct. If you are building a KR2S, all the spars have webbing the full length, on both sides. This is one of those 'gotchas' that appear in notes on the supplemental drawings. If you are building a KR2S, Check drawing W1, spar details for the KR2S, Drawn in 1993. Even this drawing can confuse you. In one place, it calls out '4 important changes in the spar details' and the webbing change is NOT noted here. The note about the webbing appears in ANOTHER PART of the drawing. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:57:33 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: Inspection/Training Program Response Just to let everyone know, there was only one person (other than me) who expressed interest in developing or participating in an Inspection/Training Program, so I'll divert my time to more useful endeavors. Like rebuilding my engine.... Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:06:33 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Accident Stats (test plan) In a message dated 98-01-10 23:09:54 EST, Ross wrote: << I downloaded & printed the test plan. In word 7.0 it looked like I was reading a proof/draft copy as there were several entries with lines struck through them. I downloaded this some time ago, so let me know if I need to get a newer copy. >> I may have outsmarted myself. I've been working on the test plan in "outline mode" in Word with all of the revision tools turned on so that I can keep track of what I've changed. I must have uploaded my working copy. You can get rid of all that garbage by going to the "tools" menu, click on revisions, and select the choice that accepts all revisions. Then go to the "view" menu and selct either "normal" or "page layout". That will make it much easier to read. I'll upload a new copy in Word 2.0 format tonight or tomorrow. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Louis MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:30:36 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: KR: Rick's Master-work - an ungrateful comment! EagleGator wrote: << I would really like for folks to take a look at the test plan I'm working on and have posted on my web site. >> The URL is http://members.aol.com/eaglegator. Cheers! Rick I don't know how to put this: Rick's test plan is likely the best that this or any other builders' group is going to get, and I am an aviation junky, and I am a natural-born nit-picker, but I can't make a good shake at feeding back some insights - what Rick called establishing a little "ownership". When I ask myself why, I recall how years ago, I jumped at flight-testing an Aerosport 'Quail' at Hudson field, Texas after it had been repaired following a heavy landing mishap. Some taxi passes and one pattern were all that I promised - but that was a highlight of my life. Reading Rick's test-plan should have given me a similar shine, but it didn't. So I guess I think it's so cool and low-key and detailed, I get bored. Hmmm...talk about ungrateful! Maybe some of Randy Stein's irreverent prose?.... Or better, say it's just me. Brian brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:11:54 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Tail Wheel Spring - Titanium At 20:31 1/8/98 EST, you wrote: >Can anybody give me the "Cliff Notes" on how to work with titanium, ie >cutting, drilling, etc.? > >Randy > > Titanium cannot be soldered or annealed by home methods, but lends itself to all other traditional methods: drill, file, draw, stamp. It's ductile, twice as dense as aluminum, half as dense as steel. It is resistant to corrosion and tough. (Complete Metalsmith, McCreight Davis Pubs Inc. Ma.) Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:45:14 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? Hi all, I believe the smell you are noticing is just the resins in their liquefied state. You have them stored in a heated cabinet and they have been opened. I notice the same (I think) smell when I have them enclosed for a while. No need to get concerned. BRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: John Bouyea To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 10 January, 1998 09:56 Subject: KR: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? >I'm keeping my resins in a "warm box, a cabinet in the garage with a light >bulb. The thermometer shows 68 - 75 F. > >I'm noticed that both T-88 and Aeropoxy PH3660 hardeners both take on a >very harsh smell some time (2 months?) after the container is opened. I'm >stopped using that container at that point due to the possibility that it >has "gone funny" on me. > >Anyone know why this happens? If not, I'll call System3 on Monday & report >back to the list. > >John Bouyea >johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net >kr2s - fitting the top cross members >Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:07:57 -0500 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) At 08:57 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:19 PM 1/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Ross: >> As I am only a KR "Buyer" and not a KR "Flyer" yet take this at face value >only, please. >> >> My airplane had a Hapi 1835 engine, an Ellison T.B.I. and 1/4 fuel line >GRAVITY FED ONLY from the header tank and the previous owner said he could >not run it "flat out" without the boost pump on............... > >There have been many documented cases of the Dragonfly guys having trouble >with the Ellison and 1/4 inch lines, don't do it! You need a 3/8 line from >the header tank to the carb if you want to run it on gravity alone! >Otherwise you will need a pump to achieve optimum performance. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Happy Holidays to Everyone! > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Mike: Did you not read the whole post? Regards dennis (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:42:07 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: KR: Re: R/C Models Sorry, My e-mail is not working right ... Please respond to this again. Thanks, Lloyd >ATTN all R/C modelers: > >I am looking to buy all of your old Airplanes and Engines . I am also >looking to purchase some more radio equipment. Please E-Mail me with >your lists and prices. >LEPERKINS@JUNO.COM > >Thanks, >Lloyd Perkins >(540)786-2838 before 11:00 EST ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:42:07 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: Re: KR: KR For Sale Gentlemen, Sorry for the problems .... Please respond to me again with your specs and prices.(JUNO deleted a whole bunch of my E-Mail)... Thanks, Lloyd On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:27:11 EST leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) writes: >> ATTN: >I am looking for a KR-2 any condition .Please respond to me here or >personel E-Mail at LEPERKINS@JUNO.COM >Thanks, >Lloyd >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:45:26 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Re: Why does T-88 start smelling weird? Martin Mulvey wrote: > > Hi all, > > I believe the smell you are noticing is just the resins in their liquefied > state. You have them stored in a heated cabinet and they have been opened. I > notice the same (I think) smell when I have them enclosed for a while. No > need to get concerned. > > BRGDS Marty > > >I'm noticed that both T-88 and Aeropoxy PH3660 hardeners both take on a > >very harsh smell some time (2 months?) after the container is opened. > >John Bouyea - ----------------------- I agree, The smell is worse when it is warmed up. I would not worry about it. I have used epoxy even after the resin got hard from being to cold. (It gets cloudy and then gets hard over time) I just warmed it up to about 85 degrees and it turned back to liquid. I tested it and had no glue failures. If you are worried, glue up some pieces of wood and then destroy them after the glue sets up. If the glue holds and the wood tears, the the glue joint is stronger then the wood and should be no problem. If the glue joint breaks and leaves the wood grain intact, then something is wrong with the glue joint. Just my opinion. Marvin McCoy Seattle, Wa. North end of Boeing field Mr.Marvin@worldnet.att.net - --------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:03:31 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Rick's Master-work - an ungrateful comment! In a message dated 98-01-11 01:59:33 EST, you write: << Reading Rick's test-plan should have given me a similar shine, but it didn't. So I guess I think it's so cool and low-key and detailed, I get bored. >> Actually, and perhaps unfortunately, that is the essemce of test planning and flight testing. The plan covers every miniscule detail of the events that will occur on the ground and in the air, and then you execute the tests in accordance with your plan. It can be tedious, and yes, at times, boring. That's the nature of the beast. The main reason I started the plan last year before my "airplane" was even a "boat" was so that I could finish it before the excitement of getting close to finishing the airplane pushed me to leave things out that I know need to be covered. I know how that goes. But here is the up side. All that planning and preparation you do will allow you to make the most of your airborne time, and perhaps most importantly, prepare you to recognize a bad situation developing. You won't have to think about what to do because you have reviewed and practiced the procedure in accordance with your plan. One such situation that we discussed here recently - -- fuel starvation/engine failure on takeoff -- is a situation you will have thought long and hard about. How high do I have to be before I can turn back to the runway? What can I do to maybe get the engine started again, and how high do I need to be to even consider this option? What kind of obstructions are off the end of the runway? Do I need to plan an immediate shallow turn on takeoff to point toward and emergency landing area? What are my "immediate action procedures" for engine failure on takeoff? You will have the answers to all of those questions before you even get into the airplane, because you have PLANNED for it. And your test plan should cover every other medium to high risk contingency you can think of with the same amount of detail. An "exciting" test program (one involving mishaps) is quite often tied to an inadequate plan. So, no apologies, Brian. Please try and slog through it, even if it is between Test Plan reading induced naps ;-} and please add your insights as you are able. We will all benefit form each other's experience. Cheer! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:30:42 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) At 06:07 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > Mike: > > Did you not read the whole post? > > Regards dennis (in Toronto) > What do you mean "the whole post"? The stuff you included in your post is from two or three post,... I didn't write it all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:05:24 -0500 From: "Ron Brown" Subject: KR: Engine Mount Support Hello All, My name is Ron Brown and I'm building a stretched KR-2. I live in the Flint, Michigan area and have been working on KR in my spare time? for about 10 years. In between the kids, wife, job, sports, well, you all know how it goes. I built a garage on the back of my garage when I had to start assembling the components that were built in my basement. I would like to thank the folks that gave me feedback about gluing the foam to the structure. I'll keep trying. Now, for my next question. Do the upper engine mount reinforcements run the entire length of the upper sill, or are they just localized support? The plans or prints don't seem clear on this point. If this is a repeat question for the group, my apologies in advance. Remember, I am a "newbie". Thanks Ron Brown rjbrown@tir.com rjbrown4@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:56:28 EST From: KMcken7414 Subject: Re: KR: Inspection/Training Program Response Great job on the KR updates. I am new here and would like to see if there are any sites dedicated to the KR's. Thanks Keith Jacksinville, FL. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:04:10 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Rick's Master-work - an ungrateful comment! In a message dated 98-01-11 13:11:45 EST, you write: << So, no apologies, Brian. Please try and slog through it, even if it is between Test Plan reading induced naps ;-} and please add your insights as you are able. We will all benefit form each other's experience. Cheer! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO >> Rick, Boring it is not, insightful it is. Thanks for all your effort, now my testing will be not only exciting, but will have more of a purpose. I realize this is not a chat room, but to all of you who have not yet (and I say again, yet) downloaded Rick's test plan, do so as soon as you can, it will be informative reading and leave you with many things to think about in that Rick has done a lot of thinking for us. Thanks Rick. I'll get off my soapbox now. (ps, Rick, I just gave a copy of it to a Kitfox builder who is waiting for the A\C certificate and the local EAA chapter wants me to make a copy for it's members.) Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:15:35 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Yard sale! I now have no use for a seriously clean set of zero time 1835cc 92mm pistons and cylinders with rings and wrist pins. Along with these if anyone needs a zero time forged 92 bore, 69mm stroke crankshaft with main bearings and rod bearing, with prop hub let me know. Save space on the KRNet and e-mail be privately and I'll sent you a jpg picture. CHEAP is the word. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tl@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:10:08 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: KR related sites In a message dated 98-01-11 16:17:56 EST, Keith wrote: << Great job on the KR updates. I am new here and would like to see if there are any sites dedicated to the KR's. >> Keith: Start with krnet.org and you'll have enough threads to follow from there for a fair number of evenings into the near future... Randy ('ol irreverent) Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:50:27 EST From: KMcken7414 Subject: Re: KR: Yard sale! I would be very interested in the VW parts, please contact me. Thanks, Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:20:42 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Control Stops Donald Reid wrote: > > MikeT nyc wrote: > > Arguing to the inspector that the controls are self-limiting and don't exceed > > the recommended limits (assuming they don't) is probably the best way to > > deal with this problem. > > > > Mike Taglieri > > Perhaps another way to deal with it is to get the inspector to show you > what FAR states that a control stop is required. There is no > requirement of which I am aware. This is a good practice, but no legal > requirement. The FAR's require certain things like compass, oil pressure > and temperature, airspeed, etc., but they also say you can do almost > anything you want. > > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. > mailto:donreid@erols.com > http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Good point about doing anything you want. Fellas, this is NOT type certificated aircraft we are building here. You are the manufacturer of your plane which is based on the KR-2S design, but it is going to be called the "Don Reid KR-2S" or whatever you want to call it on the FAA doucumentation. Your control stop is exactly wherever the control stops whether they like it or not. If YOU don't like the amount of travel because the plans you happened to be following say to use less, then as the manufacturer you can decide to put control stops in. If KR-2's in the past have flown fine without specific control stops, then your's will be fine too. Whoopee! Thank God for the Experimental Amateur-built category! - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:59:33 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Engine Mount Support Ron Brown wrote: > Do the upper engine mount reinforcements run the > entire length of the upper sill, or are they just localized support? > You are right, the plans are not clear. This was added based on an article in the s-mail newsletter a number of years ago. In that article, the idea was to run the aluminum channel the full length, in large part due to the engine mount being too narrow for the KR-2. I think that if you build your own mount that is closer to the longerons, then the need to add the full length channel goes away. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:02:56 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Linear actuator Someone on the net talked about using a linear actuator for his belly board or flaps. How about some specifics on it. Supplier, price, size, weight, etc. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:22:06 -0500 From: Richard Barfield Subject: Re: KR: Yard sale! Please sent the jpg along with some history, i.e. what type of hub, has the crank ever been used, what size are the mains. (was case align-bored?) At 10:15 PM 1/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >I now have no use for a seriously clean set of zero time 1835cc 92mm pistons >and cylinders with rings and wrist pins. Along with these if anyone needs a >zero time forged 92 bore, 69mm stroke crankshaft with main bearings and rod >bearing, with prop hub let me know. Save space on the KRNet and e-mail be >privately and I'll sent you a jpg picture. CHEAP is the word. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >kr2616tl@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:59:18 EST From: EagleGator Subject: Re: KR: Rick's Master-work - an ungrateful comment! In a message dated 98-01-11 17:17:31 EST, Dana Overall wrote: << I just gave a copy of it to a Kitfox builder who is waiting for the A\C certificate and the local EAA chapter wants me to make a copy for it's members. >> That's great! Please make sure they distribute it with my contact information intact so that they can contact me if they need more info. If anyone else knows of someone getting ready to test their airplane, please offer them this plan, AC 90-89A, Vaughn Askue's book "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft", or any other flight test reference to head them in the "right" direction. My objective is to get/keep people thinking, keep our friends alive and their airplanes unbent. Oh, and I'm online updating my web page as this is being sent. Version 8 of the test plan includes Normal Procedures Checklists, Squawk Report Format, and Appendix 4 (Test Cards) up through first flight. Pretty boring stuff, but I hope it stimulates some thought.... ;-) Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:48:02 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: As I begin building my boat, I wonder if there has ever been any discussion or thought to making and using fiberglass fuselage skins bonded to the original spruce frame. I would think that the strength, weight etc would be close to plywood if a good clean job was done on them removing all excess resin. Any body ever consider it? Richard Parker Jaffrey, NH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:36:44 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: NLF Thoughts I had to work this weekend, but it was slow and I had a chance to do some number crunching on the NLF(1)-0115 airfoil and I want to pass on what I found. Some of it may be old news and some of it may have a bit of sense in it. I took three airfoils and ran them through an airfoil analysis program to calculate the lift, drag, and pitch moment data. I used the RAF48, the NLF(1)-01115, and the NACA 747A315, the one I am using. I did this so I would have a consistant basis for comparison. The results for the 747A315 agreed pretty well with the published data so I believe that the comparison will be valid. The RAF has the highest lift coefficient and a gentle stall, but high drag. The 747A315 has the lowest drag coefficient, but also the lowest lift coefficient, so you have to increase wing area for a good landing speed. It also has the most gentle stall of the three and the lowest pitch coefficient. The NLF has a very good lift coefficient, a reasonable low drag coefficient, but a very high pitch coefficient and an sharper stall. Then I scaled the wing area, aspect ratio, and taper ratio so that the plan form and the unflapped stall speeds were the same. Then I scaled the horizontal stabilizer so that the volume coefficient were the same. I did this by changing the stab. size, but not the length of the fuselage. The idea was to model the same fuselage, with the different wing and tail. I looked at design cases of 180mph and 90mph, with full forward and full aft CG. In all three cases, the neutral stability point was between 34 and 35 percent of the mean aerodynamic chord. What I found was that the wing drag for the 747 was about 5% lower than the RAF, the 747 required the largest area of the three, since it has the lowest lift coefficient. The NLF was about 20% lower than the RAF, since the lift coefficient was almost the same, but the drag was so much lower. When you add in the drag caused by the tail, the NLF looses some of its advantage, but only about 5% (net about 15% over the RAF). This is because the NLF has a much high pitch moment. That means that as the speed increases, the airfoil wants to pitch nose down. In fact, the downward tail force at 180mph was about 2.5 times higher on the NLF than on either of the other two. Up to this point, there were no surprises. I did note two things that may be of interest. The NLF runs out of laminar flow at a relatively low lift coefficient, on the order of 0.65. Since your Vx speed is generally at a lift coefficient of about 1.0, the NLF will have a significantly higher drag during climb. This translates into a decreased rate of climb. The other thing that is interesting, at least to me, is that if you size the horizontal stabilizer for a realistic volume cofficient, at forward CG and high speed, the tail will/can be well outside of its laminar flow region. In other words, the elevator may need to work so hard that the drag will increase dramatically. In certain cases, increasing the tail size would significantly decrease the drag since the lift coefficient would be in the laminar region at all times. Any question? I will try to answer. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #9 ***************************