From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 6:30 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #19 krnet-l-digest Monday, January 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 019 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:09:23 -0800 From: bmsi@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Dimple tape Micheal Mims wrote: > > but the scratches created by 36 grit mean nothing as far as his aircraft are > concerned! I have heard there is a possibility that it actually makes the > plane fly better! Any opinions on that? (like I have to ask!) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fluid dynamics, right? Remember the Dennis Conner drill with his win back of the Americas Cup?, Ano?, when they glued grooved film on to the hull of his boat to reduce friction in the water. My memory is old and not so responsive, but...the grooves were oriented in the direction of the motion of the boat. I think it was one of the ones he won?? My sailboat is not that sophisicated and it takes a lot more patience to get where one is going. Bruce S. Campbell Tampa, Good luck Packers, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:00:14 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Tailwheel Transition Training I just flew the Citabria from the back seat this afternoon. Made about five each main wheel and full stall landings. It was well worth the time to do it. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:24:24 EST From: RFreibe131 Subject: KR: Dimples in the right place. Read the article more closely; the dimples have to be in the right place. Sailplaners wet sand their wings to a matte finish for better performance. My airplane will probably be like Rutan's. Kenny Rand was no great polisher either; he was a do it ang go guy. Ron Freiberger KR2S @ Fort Myers,Fl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:33:41 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Main Wheel Position Mark Langford wrote: > > Could somebody with a tri-gear measure from axle to the front of the aft > spar and email the guy below? > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > > ---------- > > From: Rego and Noleen Burger > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > Subject: Main Wheel Position > > Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 3:13 PM > > > > Hello Mark, > > As you may see from my sign off I'm Buillding a Cozy Mk4 (CZ4), however > > a builder in my Chapter decide to turn his KR2 into a Trike Gear..can > > you please find me a measurement from the front of the main spar back to > > the axle center to aid in this one please..it tends to drop it's tail on > > the ground when climing in? > > Thanks. > > PS. visit my home page...yours is great. > > -- > > Rego Burger > > CZ4#139 South Africa > > Web:http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm > > Work e-mail, mailto:burgerr@telkom.co.za-------------- Rego: I am building a KR2S with the Dan Deihl tri gear. The main gear axels are 6 and 1/2 inches behind the front of the main spar. I hope this helps. Marvin McCoy Seattle, Wa. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:41:53 -0800 From: "parley t. byington" Subject: Re: KR: Spins Brian Yes, I would be very interested in the article. By the way, I had a friend in a Vari Eze take some inflight photos of my bird a couple of weeks ago. They turned out real nice. He is going to try and get his scanner to work so I can post the pictures for anyone who is interested seeing a stock KR-2 in flight over southern Nevada. Thanks Parley Byington (N54PB) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 7:25:16 ÿÿÿ From: steveb@aviation.denel.co.za Subject: Re: KR: Spins Brian Could I get a copy of the article to. Steve in South Africa fax +27 11 425 3940 47 Fourteenth Ave Northmead Benoni South Africa 1501 steveb@aviation.denel.co.za - ---------- From: SMTP1@K1 - Server@Servers[] To: Cc: Subject: Re: KR: Spins Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 10:32PM >In a message dated 98-01-16 17:26:26 EST, you write: > >> >>>Just a question here, while we're talking about recognizing incipient >>>stalls and such. Has anybody out there spun a KR? Anybody have any >>>experience with spins or spin recovery in the KR? > There was an article about the KR in Hot Kits & Homebuilts March 1989. It had a short article from a 27 year Air Force veteran. He talks all about the flight of his KR-2. He even describes about spinning it. If anyone is interested in seeing the article let me know. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S=20 KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:48:35 EST From: ECLarsen81 Subject: Re: KR: Pitch Sensitivity Kim, Thought you might want to add this to you information arsennal. Ed In a message dated 97-12-19 09:53:33 EST, you write: << brian whatcott wrote: > > I have read about the super pitch sensitive stick in the KR series of > >planes and I talked with a RANS S-6 builder/pilot... > >My fix goes like this.. if you reduced the distance from the > >pivot point of the control stick to the connection to the elevator push- pull > >tube then you would in effect give the stick greater tolerance to pitch > >inputs (i.e. fore/aft movement) > ... > >Jeremy Casey jrcasey@mindspring.com > > When faced with a 'sensitive stick' in pitch, some folks guess > the solution is to increase the stick displacement per elevator > deflection, and other folks think the way to go is to increase > the stick force per elevator deflection.snip > brian whatcott Here is my contrabution to the effort. You are looking at a combination of static stability, dynamic stability, and control forces. The static stability is a function the distance between the CG and the neutral stability point. If the CG is at the neutral point, the a/c will respond in pitch just like it does in roll. You would establish a pitch force, let the a/c change to the desired attitude, remove the pitch force, and the a/c will remain at that attitude. You could fly this way, but it would not be any fun. In a KR-2, the neutral stability point is at approximately 35% of the mean aerodynamic chord, which is the published aft cg limit. The fix for this is to us a real-world cg range that maintains some static margin. 30% is a good aft limit. The dynamic stability is how quickly the a/c returns to the trimmed condition following a distubance. This is a function of the a/c design. Once you have built your plane, this is difficult to change. The usual way of comparing the a/c is with something called the volume coefficient. It is a non-dimensional number that is given by VHT = (area of horiz tail X distance from CG to the aero center of the tail) divided by (wing area X the length of the mean aerodynamic chord) The standard range for light aircraft is about 0.3 to 0.6. The higher the number, the more dynamically stable the a/c will be. If you can find it, read a series of articles in Sport Aviation, beginning in Feb 1990, by John Roncz. Several places have this on the web, but you have to go and search for it. The control forces can be fine-tuned during the testing process by changing the lever arms (mounting points). This is largely a matter of personnal preference. Just remember, as the stick movement gets smaller for a given elevator movement, the amount of force you need to apply through your hand/arm will get higher. Full range of motion must be possible, both hand and elevator. Any changes during the tesing period should be small and adequately tested before flight. -- Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:53:10 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: New fella Hi My name is David and I live in Wellington down under in NewZealand. My claim to fame is a KR2 Special and I say special because it is now 13 years old and was built with a 17inch extension in the rear and the appropriate engine mount and prop extension for c/g purposes making it 26inches longer overall. It has been widened at the cockpit by 3inches and is using a Dragonfly canopy witch gives a nice gentle slope up to the turtle deck. RR aluminium fixed undercarriage has replaced the retracts and is sitting on 400/4 tyres and Cleveland hydraulic independant disc brakes with stylish wheel pants. The rudder is 4inches wider in chord and also 4inches higher and tends to help with the gusty conditions we fly in round here and has a strobe fitted to the top. Dual leaf springs hold the tail wheel after having broken several of the single standard ones. Power is Revmaster 2100D with dual Bendex single drive mags with the extra set of points for the tacho. Carb is a Stromberg CD150 which is auto altitude compensating and uses 15ltrs/hr at cruise and 10ltrs/hr local pussing around. Battery is a Chinese type used in Harleys and is mounted in the engine bay right front bulkhead. Charging is courtesy of Revmaster through a Honda black box. This is a mistake as it only gives 4amps. Am looking to improve this at present. Propellor is a Clark Performance Propellor 52/48 but am currently test flying an electric variable pitch job that is showing great promise. Radio is a Com 11A coupled with an intercom and Transponder with mode C. Specs are using Avgas 100 Max static 3000 Max angle climb 60kts@ 3000 Max rate climb 70kts Cruise 125kts @3000 Local flying 100kts@2500 Stall 48kts. A mushy non event with a high rate of sink. Aeliron control remains down to 40kts indicated or 35kts GPS Approach two up 70kts solo 60kts FenceTwo up 60kts solo 50kts Gusty or crosswind I use wheeler behind the mains especialy on seal. Empty weight is 665lbs Gross weight is 1150lbs Total time engine and air frame 520hrs. Her birth flight was Aug 24th 1984. Oil change every 25hrs full synthetic oil Tappets 5and7 cold Engine has had two valve grinds. There has been no other maintainance aside from magneto points cleaning. 70 litres fuel in one tank with gravity feed to the CD150 I trust this info is not boring and can be compared constructively As far as mods go, the only thing I long for is to get off the ground quicker and hopefully the new vari prop will do this. Cheers..........Dave. ZK_CSR David.Stuart@xtra.com.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:01:43 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: New fella At 06:53 PM 1/19/98 +1300, you wrote: >Hi >My name is David and I live in Wellington down under in NewZealand. >My claim to fame is a KR2 Special and I say special because it is now 13 years old and was built with a 17inch extension in the rear My friend you may just be the Father of the KR2S!! Keep us posted on the propeller, please! Interesting mods indeed! I have done similar mods to my KR and was curious as to what the performance would be with a VW. Thanks for the info! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:25:09 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Spins and Tomahawks >Not wishing to get into a flaming debate, I'll make just one other >observation >about the statement, "These planes are too dangerous to stall and probably >should be destroyed." This is pure and utter nonsense. The Tomahawk is no >more >dangerous than any other aircraft of its type. >I am with Ed on this one, the Tomahawk is not dangerous its just different. >Its just my opinion but I feel the C-150/152 are better basic trainers but >by no means is the PA-38 so dangerous it should be "destroyed". Let the >future students take care of that. > >PS Mike I realize you are not the one saying the PA-38 is dangerous you just >repeated what you read so this isn't a flame directed at you. Just like >anything else you read, you know as well as I know there is a lot os BS out >there! SO please dont take it personally and maybe we better drop the whole >subject anyway since its about a Piper and not a KR. Sorry for the use of >bandwidth folks! I'm happy to drop the subject, but first I want to note that you are both misquoting what I said. I did not say that the PA-38 should be destroyed. I said the particular planes in the production run where Piper deliberately violated the type certificate by omitting ribs in the wings should be destroyed (Or at least the wings should be -- the fuselages could presumably be used for spare parts). It's always a good idea to read things carefully before you answer a post on a thread. Finally, if the AOPA has proved that Aviation Safety was wrong and Piper did not omit any ribs on the wings of any Tomahawks, I'd be interested in seeing the story. If they're just telling their members not to worry about their Tomahawks, I'm not particularly surprised. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:50:19 -0800 From: Ross Subject: KR: Re:Transition Training & N541RY progress report I'm jealous! It has been solid IFR rainy weather up here in Oregon. I may pop over and visit mom in Phoenix for a four day weekend and finish my taildragger endorsement, and get my unusual attitude training out of the way. I just installed my copper tape antenna (RST antenna kit), it is positioned in the aft deck area, not the optimum location, but it was the only place I could find that didn't have metal within 12" inches of the thing. Too bad I didn't put it in the vertical stab earlier. At any rate, with this done, and 40% of the panel wired, I'm getting anxious to turn the engine over. I went to charge up my motorcycle battery to fire the electrical up, and found that my battery charger was toasted. Grrr. I used two nine volt batteries, and a DVM to check on the current drain of the fuel pumps. They were sucking about 900mA at 18V. I also did a static check of the coil resistance which came in at about 26K ohms. That came out to 500uA current at 12V, but since the pump silonoid switches on/off, its difficult to know if this is a constant resistance value. At any rate, 1-2A for the fuel pump seems to be what they will draw. So a 5A fuse might not be a bad idea. I don't have the pumps shielded (as suggested earlier), but since they click on and off, it could inject noise into the radio or power bus, I think I will wait and see. I could just purchase some shielded braid and slide it over the harness at this point when the time comes. I've got to get my panel placarded now. Just a few more connections and I will be VFR legal. I don't have a T/B or VSI, which are on my shopping list, but they are not needed... I'm trying to squeeze one or both into the budget soon so I can finish the panel up with them installed. Still lots of odds & ends to complete. The wings are not painted yet, and the ailerons/flaps need some glass work yet. Hopefully all this will come together in the next month or so. - -- Regards Ross Ron Lee wrote: > > I just flew the Citabria from the back seat this afternoon. > Made about five each main wheel and full stall landings. > It was well worth the time to do it. > > Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:54:03 -0800 From: Ross Subject: Re: KR: New fella David, Thanks for the stats on your KR-2 (Special). I am drooling, and can't wait to finish mine! -- Ross David Stuart wrote: > > Hi > My name is David and I live in Wellington down under in NewZealand. > > My claim to fame is a KR2 Special and I say special because it is now 13 > years old and was built with a 17inch extension in the rear and the > appropriate engine mount and prop extension for c/g purposes making it > 26inches longer overall. It has been widened at the cockpit by 3inches and > is using a Dragonfly canopy witch gives a nice gentle slope up to the > turtle deck. RR aluminium fixed undercarriage has replaced the retracts and > is sitting on 400/4 tyres and Cleveland hydraulic independant disc brakes > with stylish wheel pants. The rudder is 4inches wider in chord and also > 4inches higher and tends to help with the gusty conditions we fly in round > here and has a strobe fitted to the top. Dual leaf springs hold the tail > wheel after having broken several of the single standard ones. > Power is Revmaster 2100D with dual Bendex single drive mags with the extra > set of points for the tacho. Carb is a Stromberg CD150 which is auto > altitude compensating and uses 15ltrs/hr at cruise and 10ltrs/hr local > pussing around. > Battery is a Chinese type used in Harleys and is mounted in the engine bay > right front bulkhead. > Charging is courtesy of Revmaster through a Honda black box. This is a > mistake as it only gives 4amps. Am looking to improve this at present. > Propellor is a Clark Performance Propellor 52/48 but am currently test > flying an electric variable pitch job that is showing great promise. > Radio is a Com 11A coupled with an intercom and Transponder with mode C. > Specs are using Avgas 100 > > Max static 3000 > Max angle climb 60kts@ 3000 > Max rate climb 70kts > Cruise 125kts @3000 > Local flying 100kts@2500 > Stall 48kts. A mushy non event with a high rate of sink. Aeliron control > remains down to 40kts indicated or 35kts GPS > Approach two up 70kts solo 60kts > FenceTwo up 60kts solo 50kts > Gusty or crosswind I use wheeler behind the mains especialy on seal. > Empty weight is 665lbs > Gross weight is 1150lbs > Total time engine and air frame 520hrs. Her birth flight was Aug 24th > 1984. > Oil change every 25hrs full synthetic oil > Tappets 5and7 cold > Engine has had two valve grinds. There has been no other maintainance > aside from magneto points cleaning. > 70 litres fuel in one tank with gravity feed to the CD150 > > I trust this info is not boring and can be compared constructively > As far as mods go, the only thing I long for is to get off the ground > quicker and hopefully the new vari prop will do this. > > Cheers..........Dave. ZK_CSR > > David.Stuart@xtra.com.nz > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:00:13 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? With everything that's written about epoxy curing better at warmer temps, has anyone experimented with building a curing chamber? I'm not talking about an autoclave like Rutan uses. Even for KR scale stuff, it would seem easy enough. A few sheets of construction insulating foam, maybe some duct tape, a small space heater with thermostat, a thermometer or two... John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - laminating the spar caps Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:40:27 +0100 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: Re: KR: need KR stall spd. for NLF project MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > My KR-2 stalls at about 45 mph ( 620 lb. empty wt. ) but you have to > have your head up and locked to get an inadvertant stall because at > speeds lower than 65 mph wou will be sinking at about 1000 fpm. > > (snip) So ... what happen when you reach 45 mph ? 5000 fpm down? I'm really impressed, if I get into a prolonged stall with the Cessna, I take 500/1000 fpm down maximum!! How much washout do you have? ... I guess some more than 1 deg !!! - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:12:34 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR: Flight testing The flight testing continues- and let me tell you, it just keeps on getting better. After I climbed out of the plane yesterday, it took 4 hours to get the smile off my face! My current problem- I have dual ignition, Slick mag and Compufire Electronic off the distributor hole. After many hours of trying to find a loose wire or short that created static and made my radio transmissions almost unreadable-ONLY when the engine was running- I finally found it. Drum roll please--- It's the Compufire! Anyone had to fix this problem? How did you do it? Any ideas? Having to switch off the Comp. and run on the mag every time I want to use the radio is possible, but a major inconveinience. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville,FL N262TC 5 hours down, 35 to go! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:58:05 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? John Bouyea wrote: > > With everything that's written about epoxy curing better at warmer temps, > has anyone experimented with building a curing chamber? I'm not talking > about an autoclave like Rutan uses. > > Even for KR scale stuff, it would seem easy enough. A few sheets of > construction insulating foam, maybe some duct tape, a small space heater > with thermostat, a thermometer or two... > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - laminating the spar caps > Hillsboro, Oregon I have used a large cardboard box with a hole cut in the side just big enough for a tiny space heater to face in. You cant just put the heater in the box because it will shut itself off when it gets hot. I used the smallest space heater I could find and it is plenty warm on the lowest setting. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:48:31 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: New fella David Stuart wrote: an electric variable pitch job that is showing great promise. Dave, What kind of prop is this? Keep us posted on the results. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:45:43 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella Thanks michael and Ross. The prop has a spring loaded center default switch mounted on the panel just above the throttle and an indicator light mounted right up high on the panel in my line of vision. The idea is to set full fine for take off and in my case that will give 3400rpm static (a gain of 400rpm). During take off roll and initial climb it is left in fine mode untill things settle down and about 200-300 agl you can start toggling the switch to coursen the pitch untill the indicator light glows. This tells you it is now full course and performs just like my fixed pitch prop. You can also select any point between fine and course and leave it there. Behind the panel is a little control box about the size of a 20 cigarette packet. This unit takes the power supply and organises the signal to the indicator light and changes the phasing for the motor to run foward or back (fine or course). The light glows red for full fine and green for full course.Two wires from the unit lead to a brush block and is transfered via a slip ring mounted behind the spinner mounting plate and into the motor. To date I have had five test flights and five forced landings all on our field. The failures were all electronic and hopefully thats the end of them. I must explaine that the faults all occured whilst selecting fine pitch for landing. The pitch blocks had not been set for fine and I would end up with an engine trying to rev at about 3800rpm or untill I popped the fuse. The blades have just been repitched and the mods have been completed on the module so hopefully I will get some time on it before our National flyin on the 6-7-8 FEB. I understand a couple of KIWI fellas flew a Titan Tornado around the states recently and they had one of these props on and never had any trouble The manufactureer has informed me they are about $7000US to you guys Is that a good price or not over there? Cheers..........Dave David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:54:03 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: NLF, Dimples, and drag Hey, no problem- we already got the wind tunnel, so we'll just have Steve make another wing or two to test. One with the standard Langford/Mims mirror finish, one with the 36 grit 'Rutan' finish, and one with dimple tape in the right place. Oh, shucks- I forgot; then it would only apply to the NLF wing. Idea #2- somebody grab Troy Petteway's old wings when he changes to the NLF, then go over them with a Surform tool. See how it performs compared to 'before'. ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:48:17 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Pitch Sensitivity At 00:48 1/19/98 EST, ECLarsen81 (Ed) wrote: >Kim, > Thought you might want to add this to your information arsenal. > >Ed > > You are looking at a combination of static stability, dynamic stability, and > control forces. > > The static stability is a function the distance between the CG and the > neutral stability point. If the CG is at the neutral point, the a/c will > respond in pitch just like it does in roll. You would establish a pitch > force, let the a/c change to the desired attitude, remove the pitch force, > and the a/c will remain at that attitude. ... > The dynamic stability is how quickly the a/c returns to the trimmed > condition following a distubance. (Ed seems to end his piece with Don Reid's signature line, which I expect was unintended.) I take exception to Ed's definition of dynamic stability. I say that a plane with good static margin, but negative DYNAMIC margin can swiftly return to its its trimmed position then overshoot in a series of increasing oscillations. Its this oscillatory behavior that is a measure of dynamic stability: the oscillation either damps out quickly ( Positive), stays at its initial amplitude (for a big dipper ride) or increases in amplitude. Static stability shows up as an initial reaction to an upset 1) in the wrong direction, (-ve) 2)holding the upset attitude,(0) or initially returning towards the trim condition. (+ve) Kershner has useful diagrams in his Advanced Pilot's Flight Manual, Iowa SU Press. Askue's Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft, Iowa SU Press describes testing for the phugoid and short period pitching oscillation (SPPO) and their speed dependencies. Maccabee's Light Aicraft Design Handbook * focusses much more interest on the Manoever Stability, once reasonable static stability is established: "The production of a satisfactory value of stick-force per g is probably the most important single step in the stability analysis, especially when it is based on an acceptable stick-free static margin..." *Depot Transport Technology, Loughborough U of Technology or PFA brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:57:09 EST From: RFreibe131 Subject: KR: I use a hotbox... In answer to john's query... I just built my canopy area while in Indiana.. I bought a $19.95 heater, 1500 watts with a thermostat. Drape the area/object with a sheet or two over some sticks, and it REALLY accelerates the process. The one I bought has 1000/1500 setting, and I often use the 1000 watt setting overnight. Ron Freiberger KR2S Fort Myers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:35:09 EST From: XZOSTD1 Subject: Re: KR: I use a hotbox...But not to hot I also would build plastic tents and use a small heater. If I remember correctly you want to maintain the temp. 130-140 degrees . A meat thermometer stuck right through the plastic worked really good for me. Does anybody else have temp/ time info??? Bill Huntley KR2S Green Bay, Wi. KRnetters, please be kind to the sad Bronco fans you see on the streets next Mon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:57:49 -0700 From: cartera@cuug.ab.ca Subject: Re: KR: need KR stall spd. for NLF project Michele Bucceri wrote: > > MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > > > My KR-2 stalls at about 45 mph ( 620 lb. empty wt. ) but you have to > > have your head up and locked to get an inadvertant stall because at > > speeds lower than 65 mph wou will be sinking at about 1000 fpm. > > > > (snip) > > So ... what happen when you reach 45 mph ? 5000 fpm down? > I'm really impressed, if I get into a prolonged stall with the Cessna, I > take 500/1000 fpm down maximum!! > > How much washout do you have? ... I guess some more than 1 deg !!! > > -- > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > Michele Bucceri > E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Whooaa! lets not get carried away! It shocks me to listen to all this over exagerated action that a KR does. Stall at 45 which mine does and maybe lose 400-500ft. not 5000ft. With a power off stall it just mushes and with a power on stall you will get a sight break but nothing violent until you get that nose really high. As for spins, you can either use power off just enter a power off stall and kick that rudder, the spins are fairly fast and I have not done more than 3 turns left or right with an approx loss of altitude of 1000ft. Rolls are easy and just require aeileron control it, no nose drop. Don't know what these exagerated opinions are to scare everyone or what because the KR just does things faster. I spent many hours at 10,000ft to play. Get to know your airplane well and don't forget to place your self into a landing attitude and then try all the things that can scare you when your close to the ground. This is the place to do them is at altitude. I have spent hours and hours at altitude to get to know my aircraft and if I were get into trouble I have plenty of altitude to recover, sans a wing parting. Which did not happen. Remember this is not a toy, get building and flying and all your questions will be answered!!!!!! - -- Adrian VE6AFY cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:42:39 +-200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: Stall strips Hi there all you stall strip freaks don't ever say that don't make a contribution to this very interesting page. With regard to the COPY RIGHT who cares, its for the betterment of the bread. Have a look at http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ Its a copy of the Glassair III stall strip installation Kobus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:26:24 -0600 From: kencor@cneti.com (Ken Cornelius) Subject: Re: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? >John Bouyea wrote: >> >> With everything that's written about epoxy curing better at warmer temps, >> has anyone experimented with building a curing chamber? I'm not talking >> about an autoclave like Rutan uses. >> >> Even for KR scale stuff, it would seem easy enough. A few sheets of >> construction insulating foam, maybe some duct tape, a small space heater >> with thermostat, a thermometer or two... >> >> John Bouyea >> johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net >> kr2s - laminating the spar caps >> Hillsboro, Oregon > >I have used a large cardboard box with a hole cut in the side just big >enough for a tiny space heater to face in. You cant just put the heater >in the box because it will shut itself off when it gets hot. I used the >smallest space heater I could find and it is plenty warm on the lowest >setting. > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL >N262TC > > While it was still Alexander Aircraft Supply I took the Composite Class with Stan Montgomery the Instructor. He talked about post curing using a cardboard box with a small heater but warned of excess heat so Alexander at that time had a post-cure kit that included a thermometer and a thermostat that you would hook up to your heater. (It would be easy to make one yourself). The benifit of post curing is gain the maximum strength possible quicker and that you control the shape of the object you cure. This prevents the wings from saging if it is allowed to cure on its own over a period of time. I think Stan talks about this in his Composite Companions video. I'll try to find time to skim through for more information if anyone needs it. Ken Cornelius kencor@cneti.com KR2-S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:57:13 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Re: Dimple tape Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 05:59 PM 1/18/98 -0600, you wrote: > Now I have a good excuse not to smooth out my wings before > >repainting my KR-1. I'll just go ahead and get out the paint gun. Then, > >if anyone asks, I can tell them the bad looks makes it fly better!! > > > >Ed Janssen > >KR-1 8029J > > > > Has anyone here had the opportunity to see one of the Rutan factory finished > aircraft? I think they do their finish sanding with 36 grit! Obviously the > mirror like finish is not required for speed and efficiency, it only adds to > the looks of the aircraft. Now I am not saying an irregular surface is ok > but the scratches created by 36 grit mean nothing as far as his aircraft are > concerned! I have heard there is a possibility that it actually makes the > plane fly better! Any opinions on that? (like I have to ask!) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Well, OOOOhh-right! Now I have a good excuse for what I wanted to do in the first place, which is to make it light & strong, and skip the high gloss finish! - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:24:24 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: 36 Grit finish was: Dimple tape On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Tom Andersen wrote: [snip] > > Has anyone here had the opportunity to see one of the Rutan factory finished > > aircraft? I think they do their finish sanding with 36 grit! Obviously the > > mirror like finish is not required for speed and efficiency, it only adds to > > the looks of the aircraft. Now I am not saying an irregular surface is ok > > but the scratches created by 36 grit mean nothing as far as his aircraft are > > concerned! I have heard there is a possibility that it actually makes the > > plane fly better! Any opinions on that? (like I have to ask!) [snip] Well, we are going to be testing the new NLF airfoil in the wind tunnel. After all data has been gathered it would be easy to scratch up the surface with an 80D sanding block and run a quick drag test. I don't know if I will be able to make myself do that but the results might be interresting. Steve Eberhart, Evansville, IN newtech@newtech.com http://www.newtech.com/nlf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:44:07 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Stall strips Kobus de Wet wrote: > > Hi there all you stall strip freaks don't ever say that don't make a > contribution to this very interesting page. With regard to the COPY RIGHT > who cares, its for the betterment of the bread. > > Have a look at http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ > > Its a copy of the Glassair III stall strip installation > > Kobus Thanks for the post, that was very interesting, especially for me, Mr. Stall Strip. I didn't realize anyone adjusted them to get a straight ahead stall but it makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't adjust them more than 1/8" at a time though. Moving a stall strip up from the leading edge could be dangerous if you go too far. What's interesting is they say they can be taped on with 2" masking tape for trials, then they're put on with 5 minute epoxy! I think that wood tri-stock, sanded concave on the long side, would work just as good as chopped fiberglass and epoxy, and probably be lighter, no? I'm in love with stall strips. One thing about the double-tapered airfoil we use on the KR-2S, the tips stall last naturally. Taken to an extreme, you have the delta configuration, which can achieve a 20 degree flare without stalling the wingtips. I advise everyone to see the website listed above, it gives a good idea of the type of plans and book one receives for $25,000. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:51:57 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Double-tapered airfoil, INCLUDING the stub wings. I'm considering tapering the leading edge on the stub wing to the same line as the outer wings. This would give a different airfoil in the center, but I think the longer airfoil near the root would stall sooner, and also give a nicer appearance, eliminating the bent wing look. I plan on some huge 8" leading edge fillets at the fuselage, which is a major area of drag. - -Tom in Orlando ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:54:22 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Double-tapered airfoil, INCLUDING the stub wings. At 08:51 PM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote: I plan on some huge 8" leading edge fillets at the fuselage, which is a >major area of drag. >-Tom in Orlando > > I bet you would be surprised that the trailing edge is more than likely a bigger source of drag. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:23:45 -0800 From: Douglas Dorfmeier Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella David Stuart wrote: > > Thanks michael and Ross. > > The prop has a spring loaded center default switch mounted on the panel > just above the throttle and an indicator light mounted right up high on the > panel in my line of vision. > The idea is to set full fine for take off and in my case that will give > 3400rpm static (a gain of 400rpm). > During take off roll and initial climb it is left in fine mode untill > things settle down and about 200-300 agl you can start toggling the switch > to coursen the pitch untill the indicator light glows. This tells you it is > now full course and performs just like my fixed pitch prop. You can also > select any point between fine and course and leave it there. > Behind the panel is a little control box about the size of a 20 cigarette > packet. This unit takes the power supply and organises the signal to the > indicator light and changes the phasing for the motor to run foward or back > (fine or course). The light glows red for full fine and green for full > course.Two wires from the unit lead to a brush block and is transfered via > a slip ring mounted behind the spinner mounting plate and into the motor. > To date I have had five test flights and five forced landings all on our > field. The failures were all electronic and hopefully thats the end of > them. I must explaine that the faults all occured whilst selecting fine > pitch for landing. The pitch blocks had not been set for fine and I would > end up with an engine trying to rev at about 3800rpm or untill I popped the > fuse. The blades have just been repitched and the mods have been completed > on the module so hopefully I will get some time on it before our National > flyin on the 6-7-8 FEB. > I understand a couple of KIWI fellas flew a Titan Tornado around the states > recently and they had one of these props on and never had any trouble > The manufactureer has informed me they are about $7000US to you guys > Is that a good price or not over there? > > Cheers..........Dave > David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz I have read about what I think is the same prop. It is called Ivoprop and a three blade model sells for a little over $700. The two blade is less. They have a web page on the internet. Search under Ivoprop. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #19 ****************************