From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 12:31 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #20 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, January 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 020 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:02:51 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: KR: Rough finish Hey Steve, why not leave the surface in a 40 or 60 grit state when the section is first tested and progressivly smooth it out as you go on testing? John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:55:21 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: rudder hinge pins >> Are we going to be allowed to fill those slots in on the rudder? It >> doesn't leave any way to inspect them other than by feel, but that's when >> we'll know they need replacing. Mine are on the bottom of the elevator >> too, and I'll leave those open as well. > What about some kind of tape, or mayby epoxy some clear plastic >over the slot so you can inspect it????? Would the rudder have enough side-to-side travel to let you put the slots directly in the back of the stabilizer (or the front of the rudder) instead of the side and still access the bolts? That way they'd be fairly difficult to see even if you left them open. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:04:21 -0800 From: Douglas Dorfmeier Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > > David Stuart wrote: > > > > Thanks michael and Ross. > > > > The prop has a spring loaded center default switch mounted on the panel > > just above the throttle and an indicator light mounted right up high on the > > panel in my line of vision. > > The idea is to set full fine for take off and in my case that will give > > 3400rpm static (a gain of 400rpm). > > During take off roll and initial climb it is left in fine mode untill > > things settle down and about 200-300 agl you can start toggling the switch > > to coursen the pitch untill the indicator light glows. This tells you it is > > now full course and performs just like my fixed pitch prop. You can also > > select any point between fine and course and leave it there. > > Behind the panel is a little control box about the size of a 20 cigarette > > packet. This unit takes the power supply and organises the signal to the > > indicator light and changes the phasing for the motor to run foward or back > > (fine or course). The light glows red for full fine and green for full > > course.Two wires from the unit lead to a brush block and is transfered via > > a slip ring mounted behind the spinner mounting plate and into the motor. > > To date I have had five test flights and five forced landings all on our > > field. The failures were all electronic and hopefully thats the end of > > them. I must explaine that the faults all occured whilst selecting fine > > pitch for landing. The pitch blocks had not been set for fine and I would > > end up with an engine trying to rev at about 3800rpm or untill I popped the > > fuse. The blades have just been repitched and the mods have been completed > > on the module so hopefully I will get some time on it before our National > > flyin on the 6-7-8 FEB. > > I understand a couple of KIWI fellas flew a Titan Tornado around the states > > recently and they had one of these props on and never had any trouble > > The manufactureer has informed me they are about $7000US to you guys > > Is that a good price or not over there? > > > > Cheers..........Dave > > David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz > I have read about what I think is the same prop. It is called Ivoprop > and a three blade model sells for a little over $700. The two blade is > less. They have a web page on the internet. Search under Ivoprop. I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo,htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:14:37 -0600 From: " Mike Filbrandt" Subject: Re: KR: Spins Brian, Would love to see the article. Blue Skies, Mike redbaronflyrs@centuryinter.net - ---------- > From: Brian Bland > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Spins > Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 4:32 PM > > >In a message dated 98-01-16 17:26:26 EST, you write: > > > >> > >>>Just a question here, while we're talking about recognizing incipient > >>>stalls and such. Has anybody out there spun a KR? Anybody have any > >>>experience with spins or spin recovery in the KR? > > > There was an article about the KR in Hot Kits & Homebuilts March 1989. > It had a short article from a 27 year Air Force veteran. He talks all > about the flight of his KR-2. He even describes about spinning it. > If anyone is interested in seeing the article let me know. > > > Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P > Claremore, OK > Building stretched and widened KR-2S > > KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com > http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:22:05 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Rough finish On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, jeroffey wrote: > Hey Steve, why not leave the surface in a 40 or 60 grit state when the > section is first tested and progressivly smooth it out as you go on testing? > John Roffey > jeroffey@tir.com > > This would be an option. It looks like we are going to be testing three separate wings. The NLF(1)0115 that is practically finished and two more for the new airfoil being designed specificaly for the KR. THe NLF has a 20% chord aileron and the root section of the new airfoil set will have a slotted flap. THe tip section will not have any flaps or ailerons. The effects of leading edge contamination i.e. rain and bug guts will be simulated with textured tapes applied to the leading edge. I think it would be possible to cover one of the sections, probably the tip section with vinyl contact paper and scratch it up with sand paper not damaging the original surface. My only reluctance to finishing the final surface during the tests is that the final finish would have to be sprayed after we took the finish down to 1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper. We will only have four days in the wind tunnel for the first testing session. What we might be able to do is test the two new sections in their polished form and the NLF section in a 60 grit finish. Then the NLF could be finished out with a polished surface for the second test. THis would be nice information to have - just how much does the surface finish contribute to drag on a high performance airfoil. I know they actually put turbulator strips on terbulent flow airfoils to improve performance in some flight regimes (sp?) will run this past Dr. Selig when he gets back from the conference he is attending this week. Steve Eberhart, Evansville, IN newtech@newtech.com http://www.newtech.com/nlf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:20:53, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? We use a cardboard box and a hair dryer. Jean N4DD Broken Arrow, OK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:23:03, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Internet Message Standard per the original plans 3 1/2 deg. I don't know what ROD i have in a stall never looked. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:33:58 EST From: ECLarsen81 Subject: Re: KR: Pitch Sensitivity Sorry guys, forgot to change the address. Kim's a buddy of mine that still hasn't decided what to build. He trying to gather as much in fo pro and con about all the low cost 2 place "Fun" planes that he can. Ed Larsen Ypsi, Mi ECLarsen81@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:44:15 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Re: Dimple tape >>Hmmm, so if you have a random irregular surface, this does better than >>a smooth surface... almost sounds like a hand layup is best. ;) >Hot Dog! Boy, I've been wait'n a long time for such an article to be >printed. Now I have a good excuse not to smooth out my wings before >repainting my KR-1. I'll just go ahead and get out the paint gun. Then, >if anyone asks, I can tell them the bad looks makes it fly better!! Hey, forget the paint gun! Use a roller, and maybe some of that sand mix stuff that they use in ceiling paint. . . . Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:44:24 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Stall strips >I think that wood tri-stock, sanded concave on the long side, would work >just as good as chopped fiberglass and epoxy, and probably be lighter, >no? I'm in love with stall strips. What is wood tri-stock? Is it what the Wicks catalogue calls "triangular corner blocking"? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:39:24 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella At 08:04 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at >http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo.htm > There is an Ivo inflight controllable prop in my hanger, I bet you could have it if you offered the guy $10! Well maybe more,...a little more. Seems he has had terrible luck with it and one time he scared himself so bad he parked his plane and it has sat ever since! I don't think its the fault of the prop,..who knows? Anyway it seems there was no limits stops and he ended up with the blade angle that was so course his airplane started shaking so violently he could not read his airspeed indicator. He did make it to the ground and now his plane sits in our hanger, covered in blankets and dust never to be flown again! Kinda sad in a way. I would like to do a good annual inspection and try to get it airworthy again but I don't think its an option at this point. All I know is the complete aircraft is for sale. What's the moral of this story? Hell if I know! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:08:15 EST From: JEHayward Subject: Re: KR: Choice of Metal for Spar Insert In a message dated 98-01-16 15:47:30 EST, you write: << Steel would make >for more durable threads, but what is the potential for rusting of a >piece of steel that's floxed into the spar? > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Tyrone, Ga. >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > Patrick, I used stainless steel for both the acorn/cap nuts and the tee nuts that were welded together and floxed on the inside of my spar. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:17:40 -0600 From: robert k adams Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella - --=====================_885323860==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:39 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:04 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at >>http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo.htm >> >There is an Ivo inflight controllable prop in my hanger, I bet you could >have it if you offered the guy $10! Well maybe more,...a little more. > >Seems he has had terrible luck with it and one time he scared himself so bad >he parked his plane and it has sat ever since! I don't think its the fault >of the prop,..who knows? > > Anyway it seems there was no limits stops and he ended up with the blade >angle that was so course his airplane started shaking so violently he could >not read his airspeed indicator. He did make it to the ground and now his >plane sits in our hanger, covered in blankets and dust never to be flown >again! Kinda sad in a way. > >I would like to do a good annual inspection and try to get it airworthy >again but I don't think its an option at this point. All I know is the >complete aircraft is for sale. > >What's the moral of this story? Hell if I know! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > hi mike if i might ask what kind of plane is it and do you know what he wants for it? im attaching a note i picked up on the net about a ivoprop problem you might find interesting. thanks bob adams < kr-2 7057V > paducah ky - --=====================_885323860==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ivo.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ivo.htm" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9JRVRGLy9EVEQgSFRNTC8vRU4iPg0NCg0NCjxodG1s Pg0NCg0NCjxoZWFkPg0NCjx0aXRsZT5Qcm9wZWxsb3I8L3RpdGxlPg0NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdF TkVSQVRPUiIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0IEZyb250UGFnZSAxLjEiPg0NCjwvaGVhZD4NDQoN DQo8Ym9keT4NDQo8cCBhbGlnbj1jZW50ZXI+JiMxNjA7PC9wPg0NCjxwIGFsaWduPWNlbnRlcj48 Zm9udCBzaXplPTY+PHN0cm9uZz5DQVBFTExBIEFJUkNSQUZUIENPUlBPUkFUSU9OPC9zdHJvbmc+ PC9mb250PjwvcD4NDQo8cCBhbGlnbj1jZW50ZXI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT02PjxzdHJvbmc+U2Vydmlj ZSBBZHZpc29yeTxicj4NDQo8L3N0cm9uZz48L2ZvbnQ+T2N0b2JlciAxNiwgMTk5NjwvcD4NDQo8 cCBhbGlnbj1jZW50ZXI+JiMxNjA7PC9wPg0NCjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9Mz48c3Ryb25nPlN1Ympl Y3Q6PC9zdHJvbmc+PC9mb250Pjxmb250IHNpemU9Mj4gPC9mb250Pjxmb250IHNpemU9Mz5Db21w b25lbnQgRmF0aWd1ZTwvZm9udD48L3A+DQ0KPHA+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zPjxzdHJvbmc+U3ViamVj dCBBaXJjcmFmdDo8L3N0cm9uZz48L2ZvbnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0yPiA8L2ZvbnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6 ZT0zPic5MSBDYXBlbGxhIFhTIG1vZGVsIEZXMkM2NVREIC0gb3duZXIgcmV0cm9maXR0ZWQgd2l0 aCA3NWhwIFJvdGF4IDYxOCBlbmdpbmUgYW5kIGEgMyBibGFkZSANDQpJdm9wcm9wIGJyYW5kIHBy b3BlbGxlcjwvZm9udD48L3A+DQ0KPHA+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zPjxzdHJvbmc+RWZmZWN0ZWQgQ29t cG9uZW50PC9zdHJvbmc+PC9mb250Pjxmb250IHNpemU9Mj48c3Ryb25nPjo8L3N0cm9uZz48L2Zv bnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT00PiA8L2ZvbnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zPkl2b3Byb3AgUHJvcGVsbGVyPC9m b250PjwvcD4NDQo8cD48Zm9udCBzaXplPTM+PHN0cm9uZz5FZmZlY3RlZCBBaXJjcmFmdCBNb2Rl bHM6PC9zdHJvbmc+PC9mb250PiBBbnkgQ2FwZWxsYSBwcm9kdWN0IGlmIGVxdWlwcGVkIHdpdGgg SXZvcHJvcCBicmFuZCBwcm9wZWxsZXJzPC9wPg0NCjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9Mz48c3Ryb25nPlJl Y29tbWVuZGVkIEFjdGlvbjo8L3N0cm9uZz48L2ZvbnQ+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0yPiA8L2ZvbnQ+PC9w Pg0NCjxvbD4NDQo8bGk+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zPkRpc2NvbnRpbnVlIGFsbCBvcGVyYXRpb25zIHVu dGlsIHJlcGxhY2VkLjwvZm9udD48L2xpPg0NCjwvb2w+DQ0KPHA+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zPjxzdHJv bmc+RGV0YWlsczo8L3N0cm9uZz48L2ZvbnQ+PC9wPg0NCjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0NCjxwPjxmb250 IHNpemU9Mz5BIDE5OTEgbW9kZWwgQ2FwZWxsYSBYUyBURCBvcmlnaW5hbGx5IGVxdWlwcGVkIHdp dGggYSA2NSBocCBSb3RheCA1MzIgaGFkIGJlZW4gcmV0cm9maXR0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG93bmVyIA0N CndpdGggYSBuZXcgNzVocCBSb3RheCA2MTggZW5naW5lIGFuZCBhIG5ldyAzIGJsYWRlIEl2b3By b3AgYnJhbmQgZ3JvdW5kIGFkanVzdGFibGUgcHJvcGVsbGVyLiA8L2ZvbnQ+PC9wPg0NCjxwPjxm b250IHNpemU9Mz5UaGUgcHJvcGVsbGVyIGJlZ2FuIHNob3dpbmcgY3JhY2tzIGluIHRoZSBzdXJm YWNlIG5lYXIgdGhlIHJvb3QgZW5kIG9mIHRoZSBibGFkZXMgd2l0aGluIDE4IGhvdXJzIG9mIG9w ZXJhdGlvbi4gPC9mb250PjwvcD4NDQo8cD48Zm9udCBzaXplPTM+QSB0ZXN0IHdhcyBjb25kdWN0 ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG93bmVyIGluIGFjY29yZGFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJdm9wcm9wIHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9u cywgd2hlcmVieSBmb2lsIHRhcGUgd2FzIA0NCmFwcGxpZWQgb3ZlciB0aGUgY3JhY2tzIHRvIGRl dGVybWluZSBwcm9wYWdhdGlvbi4gVGhlIHRhcGUgc3BsaXQgb3ZlciB0aGUgY3JhY2tzIGFuZCBn cmV3IGFzIHdlbGwuIFRoZSBvd25lciANDQpiZWxpZXZlcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBwcm9wZWxsZXIgd2Fz IHdpdGhpbiBhbiBob3VyIG9mIHVsdGltYXRlIGZhaWx1cmUuPC9mb250PjwvcD4NDQo8cD48Zm9u dCBzaXplPTM+VW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgZmlyc3Qgc3VjaCBvY2N1cmFu Y2Ugd2l0aCB0aGlzIGJyYW5kIG9mIHByb3BlbGxlcnMuIFdlIG11c3QgcmVpdGVyYXRlIG91ciBv cGluaW9uIA0NCnRoYXQgdGhlIEl2b3Byb3AgYnJhbmQgb2YgcHJvcGVsbGVyIGlzIG5vdCBhZGVx dWF0ZSBmb3Igc2FmZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gb24gZW5naW5lcyBvZiB0aGUgcG93ZXIgdXNlZCBv biB0aGUgDQ0KQ2FwZWxsYSBwcm9kdWN0IGxpbmUsIGFuZCBpcyBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIG9yIGFw cHJvdmVkIGZvciB1c2UgYnkgQ2FwZWxsYSBBaXJjcmFmdCBDb3Jwb3JhdGlvbi48L2ZvbnQ+PC9w Pg0NCjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9Mz5Gb3IgYSBsaXN0IG9mIHN1cHBvcnRlZCBlcXVpcG1lbnQgcGxl YXNlIHJlZmVyIHRvIG91ciBwcmljaW5nIHdvcmtzaGVldHMgb3IgY29udGFjdCBDYXBlbGxhIEFp cmNyYWZ0IA0NCkNvcnBvcmF0aW9uLjwvZm9udD48L3A+DQ0KPHA+JiMxNjA7PC9wPg0NCjwvYmxv Y2txdW90ZT4NDQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZT4NDQo8cD4mIzE2MDs8L3A+DQ0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0N Cjxocj4NDQo8cCBhbGlnbj1jZW50ZXI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0xPkNvcHlyaWdodCAmIzE2OTsgMTk5 NiBDYXBlbGxhIEFpcmNyYWZ0IENvcnBvcmF0aW9uPC9mb250PjwvcD4NDQo8L2JvZHk+DQ0KDQ0K PC9odG1sPg0NCg== - --=====================_885323860==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - --=====================_885323860==_-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:26:29 -0800 From: enewbold@sprynet.com Subject: KR: Tomahawk Information from AOPA (last note) Mike suggested we drop the Tomahawk chatter since it's non-KR stuff, but for those wanting any additional spin information or want to go off-line and read further on the topic, I've added this one last note. Should anyone desire futher correspondence regarding the Piper Tomahawk, I suggest we send e-mail directly to each other. Thanks guys. >Finally, if the AOPA has proved that Aviation Safety was wrong and Piper did >not omit any ribs on the wings of any Tomahawks, I'd be interested in seeing >the story. If they're just telling their members not to worry about their >Tomahawks, I'm not particularly surprised. -Mike Taglieri First, the primary controversy was not about Piper omitting ribs on the production model Tomahawks; it was about the airplane's different stall/spin characteristics. Second, if you think the Air Safety Foundation is more concerned about placating members who own a particular aircraft rather than accurately reporting their findings regarding aircraft SAFETY issues, then you are sorely misinformed. The AOPA ASF article addressing the Tomahawk can be found at: http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/t-hawk.html Ed Newbold Columbus, OH PS: My Tomahawk is a standard production model and it has four full ribs per wing. However, what most folks ignore is the fact that in place of the "missing" ribs there are half-ribs in their place. Thus, the contour of the most important part of the wing is still fully maintained. I was out flying yesterday afternoon (after 1-1/2 hours on the ground de-icing the danged thing), and I intentionally pulled some high G maneuvers to observe the purported "oil canning" effect. I did in fact see some minor oil canning, but no more or less than I've seen on Grumman aircraft, larger Piper aircraft (Archers, Warriors, etc.), and indeed, on some homebuilts I've flown in (including the RV-6A). However, when I slowed down and entered the stall series, I saw no oil-canning. Makes you think a little, doesn't it? Have a good one today. I'll see ya'll around. Hope the weather let's us meet at Huntsville next saturday! -Ed- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:43:11 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Pitch Sensitivity brian whatcott wrote: > > The dynamic stability is how quickly the a/c returns to the trimmed > > condition following a distubance. > > (Ed seems to end his piece with Don Reid's signature line, which I expect > was unintended.) > > I take exception to Ed's definition of dynamic stability. > I say that a plane with good static margin, but negative DYNAMIC margin > can swiftly return to its its trimmed position then overshoot in a series > of increasing oscillations. snip > brian whatcott > Altus OK It was my signature line because it was something that I wrote. I stand by it, even though it was slightly incomplete and did not include the complete definition. Returning to the trimmed condition in this case does not mean pass through the trimmed condition with overshoot that increases with time. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:33:54 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Instrument costs Hey, Netters; Ross mentioned that he still needed a VSI and turn/bank, so out of curiosity I pulled out my catalogs last nite and did a little figuring. For 3-1/8" instruments, non-lighted, non-TSO'd, non-rebuilt, I got some interesting prices. This is combined price for electric turn coordinator (ball/bank are much higher $$) and 2000 FPM VSI: Wicks, $591.98 plus shipping. Aircraft Spruce, $482.85 plus shipping. L.E.A.F., $452.95 plus shipping. Pacific Coast Avionics, $454.00 but shipping is free if $$ with order. It pays to shop. Also, of course, one must find out if they are USA manufacture or imported, quality, warranty, etc. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:40:34 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Taylor heritage of KR I am still studying the Taylor Titch plans I got from Richard Mole. The Titch was a later development of the Monoplane. The blood lines are very clear. Small comparison of basics: Monoplane KR-2 - --------------------------------- 21'-0" span 20'-8" 15'-0" length 14'-6" 76 sq. ft. wing area 80 sq. ft. 450 lb. empty wt. 480 lb. 700 lb. loaded wt. 900 lb. RAF48 airfoil RAF48 Oscar Zuniga Medford, oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:52:10 -0800 From: "Don Rideout" <19don26@castles.com> Subject: Re: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? I used a heat gun and thermometer into a hole in a silvered foam box to bend plastic sucessfuly..go for it.. 19don26@castles.com SeeYa! - ---------- > From: Ken Cornelius > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Anybody use a "Hotbox"? > Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 3:26 PM > > >John Bouyea wrote: > >> > >> With everything that's written about epoxy curing better at warmer temps, > >> has anyone experimented with building a curing chamber? I'm not talking > >> about an autoclave like Rutan uses. > >> > >> Even for KR scale stuff, it would seem easy enough. A few sheets of > >> construction insulating foam, maybe some duct tape, a small space heater > >> with thermostat, a thermometer or two... > >> > >> John Bouyea > >> johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > >> kr2s - laminating the spar caps > >> Hillsboro, Oregon > > > >I have used a large cardboard box with a hole cut in the side just big > >enough for a tiny space heater to face in. You cant just put the heater > >in the box because it will shut itself off when it gets hot. I used the > >smallest space heater I could find and it is plenty warm on the lowest > >setting. > > > >Tom Crawford > >tomc@afn.org > >Gainesville, FL > >N262TC > > > > > While it was still Alexander Aircraft Supply I took the Composite Class with > Stan Montgomery the Instructor. He talked about post curing using a > cardboard box with a small heater but warned of excess heat so Alexander at > that time had a post-cure kit that included a thermometer and a thermostat > that you would hook up to your heater. (It would be easy to make one > yourself). The benifit of post curing is gain the maximum strength possible > quicker and that you control the shape of the object you cure. This > prevents the wings from saging if it is allowed to cure on its own over a > period of time. > I think Stan talks about this in his Composite Companions video. I'll try to > find time to skim through for more information if anyone needs it. > > Ken Cornelius > kencor@cneti.com > KR2-S > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:03:35 -0800 From: "Don Rideout" <19don26@castles.com> Subject: Re: KR: Re: Dimple tape You know the dimples are concave on a golf ball? Maybe a shotgun and some #6shot? stand back bit...... 19don26@castles.com SeeYa! - ---------- > From: MikeT nyc > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: Dimple tape > Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 8:44 PM > > >>Hmmm, so if you have a random irregular surface, this does better than > >>a smooth surface... almost sounds like a hand layup is best. ;) > > >Hot Dog! Boy, I've been wait'n a long time for such an article to be > >printed. Now I have a good excuse not to smooth out my wings before > >repainting my KR-1. I'll just go ahead and get out the paint gun. Then, > >if anyone asks, I can tell them the bad looks makes it fly better!! > > Hey, forget the paint gun! Use a roller, and maybe some of that sand mix > stuff that they use in ceiling paint. . . . > > Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:23:35 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella At 07:17 AM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote: hi mike > if i might ask what kind of plane is it and do you know what he wants >for it? > im attaching a note i picked up on the net about a ivoprop problem you >might find interesting. > thanks > bob adams < kr-2 7057V > > paducah ky > > Great URL on the Ivo, I have heard of a few others having this crack problem too. The aircraft I was talking about is a Viking Dragonfly with about 60 hours total. The engine is a HAPI 1835 and of course the prop as you all know is a IVO inflight adjustable. (this is not Brads Dragonfly) Anyway the ship was built to compete in CAFE competition as it is pretty light for a Dragonfly and has the more fuel efficient 1835VW. I bet the first $10k would take it home. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh my,... its 1998! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:35:38 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: KR: Huntsville III Sorry for the personnal message here but I need an e-mail address. Ed Newbold (sorry for the spelling), could you please respond to me off the KRNet, I'm wondering if you would be interested in going as a flight of two Saturday, I believe I'm on your route with you coming from Columbus. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:18:33 -0800 From: Douglas Dorfmeier Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:04 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at > >http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo.htm > > > There is an Ivo inflight controllable prop in my hanger, I bet you could > have it if you offered the guy $10! Well maybe more,...a little more. > > Seems he has had terrible luck with it and one time he scared himself so bad > he parked his plane and it has sat ever since! I don't think its the fault > of the prop,..who knows? > > Anyway it seems there was no limits stops and he ended up with the blade > angle that was so course his airplane started shaking so violently he could > not read his airspeed indicator. He did make it to the ground and now his > plane sits in our hanger, covered in blankets and dust never to be flown > again! Kinda sad in a way. > > I would like to do a good annual inspection and try to get it airworthy > again but I don't think its an option at this point. All I know is the > complete aircraft is for sale. > > What's the moral of this story? Hell if I know! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Thanks for the input. This definitely something to consider before trying the prop. It sounds like it is really important to stops for maximum travel and test with very small pitch changes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:28:02 -0800 From: Douglas Dorfmeier Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella robert k adams wrote: > > At 09:39 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: > >At 08:04 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: > >>I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at > >>http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo.htm > >> > >There is an Ivo inflight controllable prop in my hanger, I bet you could > >have it if you offered the guy $10! Well maybe more,...a little more. > > > >Seems he has had terrible luck with it and one time he scared himself so bad > >he parked his plane and it has sat ever since! I don't think its the fault > >of the prop,..who knows? > > > > Anyway it seems there was no limits stops and he ended up with the blade > >angle that was so course his airplane started shaking so violently he could > >not read his airspeed indicator. He did make it to the ground and now his > >plane sits in our hanger, covered in blankets and dust never to be flown > >again! Kinda sad in a way. > > > >I would like to do a good annual inspection and try to get it airworthy > >again but I don't think its an option at this point. All I know is the > >complete aircraft is for sale. > > > >What's the moral of this story? Hell if I know! > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > > > hi mike > if i might ask what kind of plane is it and do you know what he wants > for it? > im attaching a note i picked up on the net about a ivoprop problem you > might find interesting. > thanks > bob adams < kr-2 7057V > > paducah ky > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: ivo.htm > Part 1.2 Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: Base64 > > --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the information on the Ivoprop. I think I might have to reconsider my choice of props! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:16:48 -0800 From: Douglas Dorfmeier Subject: KR: EA81 Engine Does anyone have any information or suggestions for engine mounting the EA81 engine? Also can the standard KR2 cowling be used or adapted to fit over the EA81 engine? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:54 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: KR: NEED SPECS Hello All ,. I need the lenghs of the wing panels on a KR-2 and the distance between the wheels..... I have bought a KR and need to transport it . What kind of trailer is everyone else using??? Thanks LLoyd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:47:31 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: NEED SPECS At 09:25 PM 1/20/98 EST, you wrote: >Hello All ,. > I need the lenghs of the wing panels on a KR-2 and the distance between >the wheels..... I have bought a KR and need to transport it . What kind >of trailer is everyone else using??? >Thanks >LLoyd > Great Lloyd!!! Where did you get it and it is flyable or a project? Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:43:39 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: Re: KR: EA81 Engine >Does anyone have any information or suggestions for engine mounting the >EA81 engine? > >Also can the standard KR2 cowling be used or adapted to fit over the >EA81 engine? >Try RFI Powerplant Systems Group 5555 Zuni S E Suite 281 Albuquerque, NM 87108 (505) 323-8455 John > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:14:51 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: EA81 Engine Douglas, Eggenfellner Advanced Aircraft, Inc., 427-3 Amherst Street, Suite 230, Nashua, NH 03063; Tel: (800) 840-4620, has just about everything you need for the Subaru engines, including the mount for about $495.00. Give them a call. Another source is Les Palmer, Dallas, Texas. Contact Les (he's in the phone directory) if you're not in a hurry (like 6 mos). Rich "I'm building one of those too" McCall Junction City, KS Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > Does anyone have any information or suggestions for engine mounting the > EA81 engine? > > Also can the standard KR2 cowling be used or adapted to fit over the > EA81 engine? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:31:23 -0600 (CST) From: flesner Subject: KR: **ADDRESS CHANGE** ********************The Flesners have a new e-mail address!***************** Due to a switch with our internet provider, we will no longer have the address larryfle@midwest.net In a few weeks, all letters you send to this old address will be sent back. OUR NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS IS ***** flesner@mychoice.net ***** You can start writing us at "flesner@mychoice.net" as of 1-20-98. Please write us within the next few weeks to verify you have received our new e-mail address. Thanks, everyone! --- the Flesners ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:35:42 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Taylor heritage of KR Where did you get those plans? would like a set myself. Rich McCall Junction City, KS Oscar Zuniga wrote: > I am still studying the Taylor Titch plans I got from Richard Mole. The > Titch was a later development of the Monoplane. The blood lines are > very clear. Small comparison of basics: > > Monoplane KR-2 > --------------------------------- > 21'-0" span 20'-8" > 15'-0" length 14'-6" > 76 sq. ft. wing area 80 sq. ft. > 450 lb. empty wt. 480 lb. > 700 lb. loaded wt. 900 lb. > RAF48 airfoil RAF48 > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, oregon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:33:09 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Taylor heritage of KR At 10:35 PM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote: >Where did you get those plans? would like a set myself. > >Rich McCall >Junction City, KS > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: > >> I am still studying the Taylor Titch plans I got from Richard Mole. Looks like a fella named Richard Mole to me! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:21:18 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: MS Flight Simulator In return for installing a faucet in her new apartment, a friend just gave me MS Flight Simulator 5.0 (for DOS). Haven't tried it yet, but I noticed that you have a choice of various planes and you can adjust the pitch sensitivity to any level you want. Does anybody know whether some combination of plane and pitch sensitivity on this thing would simulate flying a KR? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:51:35 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Taylor heritage of KR >> I am still studying the Taylor Titch plans I got from Richard Mole. The >> Titch was a later development of the Monoplane. The blood lines are >> very clear. Small comparison of basics: >> >> Monoplane KR-2 >> --------------------------------- >> 21'-0" span 20'-8" >> 15'-0" length 14'-6" >> 76 sq. ft. wing area 80 sq. ft. >> 450 lb. empty wt. 480 lb. >> 700 lb. loaded wt. 900 lb. >> RAF48 airfoil RAF48 Looks like the various sizes stayed almost the same, but the gross weight went up substantially. Is there any evidence from the plans that the fuselage and spar were beefed up to warrant this increase in gross? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:43:31 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Additions to "Shoulder Harness Mod from R-R" I reread the article again, and I was incorrect when I said "apparently 2 bolts are used on each clamp plate." Actually, the article calls for four 5/16" bolts or five 1/4" bolts per shoulder harness (a drawing on another page shows it with the four). This is all somewhat confusing, however. The sketch (end-on) for the attachment of the belt seems to show the clamp plate as a kind of washer with the naked webbing of the harness under it, squashed against the plywood. However, if the four holes are spread out according to good engineering practice (2D from the edge of the clamp plate and 3D from one another), my math shows the clamping plate having to be 5 1/3" wide, far wider than the shoulder harness itself so the bolts on the ends would not compress it. It would probably be better to sew the webbing into a suitable loop on a clamp plate 5 1/3" wide, then attach the latter to the wood with the four bolts. The drawings and text of this release follow the KR tradition of being incomplete and confusing, and some details of how to build it have to be derived from the theoretical section explaining its strength, which is not exactly a masterpiece of clarity either. Since this stuff was sent to the Newsletter directly from Jeanette and will apparently be in future printings of the manual, I don't see how the Newsletter's usual copyright warning applies to it. Therefore, I'm quoting the section concerning clamping the webbing in full, and maybe someone here with better theoretical knowledge than mine can figure out the damn thing: "2. Assume the shoulder harness is bolted to a plywood web and assume the bolts apply their loads to the wood by compression of the circular hole sides. For birch plywood, the compression strength is 7300psi. The required total hole depth times diameter is 2000/7300 = 0.274 square inches. Five .250 diameter holes in quarter-inch plywood is .312 square inches; the same for four (4) 5/16 holes in 1/4 thickness [reference to drawing omitted]. 3. The bolt loads apply shear along forward acting planes in the plywood, which has a shear strength of 1500psi. We therefore need at least 1.50 square inches of cross section in front of the attach bolts. Each bolt has two shear planes, so a four bolt attachment has eight planes, each carrying 188lbs of shear, req'ing .125 in. of cross section. This is 1/2 inch edge distance in quarter-inch plywood, measuring forward from the edge of the hole to the edge of the piece." Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:47:19 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Shoulder Harness Mod from R-R I know many people here do not subscribe to the KRNewsletter, (which is much improved, by the way), so I'm summarizing this month's big story: Rand- Robinson has finally devised a supplement to the KR plans for the attachment of shoulder harnesses (for the record, 13 years after Cessna, which offered a shoulder belt mod for its old planes in July, '85). The article shows drawings, etc., but I can explain it with words and the drawings in the manual: The modification is fairly simple. Look at drawing #41 on P. 44 ("Seat Back Installation"). Make the shelf (sheer web) at the top of the seat of 1/4" birch plywood instead of 3/32" plywood (or add a piece of 1/8" or 1/4" on top of the 3/32" if this is already built. (All strength analysis is done for birch plywood, so presumably this is what they want you to use). In addition to thickening the shelf, you'll see from drawing #41 that it rests on the longerons and on cross members at the top of the seatback and 4" further back. For additional gluing area, you're to "glue . . . an additional 5/8" square strip along each longeron between the cross members." (i.e., add doublers to the longerons for the 4" portion that runs under the shelf). These doublers are epoxied to the longerons and the shelf to increase the surface gluing area. The shoulder harnesses can then be attached by "bolting to [the] plywood web," using a bolt, washer and nut as well as a "clamp plate" that presses the web strap against the 1/4" shelf. No details of this are given, and no backup plate is shown on the bottom of the shelf, although this seems only reasonable. The analysis assumes that "the bolts apply their loads to the wood by compression of the circular hole sides." The bolts must be placed so there is "at least 1.50 square inches of cross section in front of the attach bolts," and apparently 2 bolts are used on each clamp plate. The largest part of the article {omitted] is a presentation of data first given at the 1996 Sun & Fun explaining why this design is strong enough. According to the analysis (by Marcy Analytics of Littleton, CO), the load limit of this design is 4000 lbs, 25% more than the estimated force from a pilot and passenger of 200 lb each in a 20 G crash. I noticed one thing in the analysis that's a bit disquieting: it assumes two attachments for each seat belt and shoulder belt. Therefore, if the inside seat belt and the bottom of the shoulder belt join together before attaching to the plane (which is how it is on belts I've used) that attach point may also have to be reinforced. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #20 ****************************