From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 11:11 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #23 krnet-l-digest Saturday, January 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number 023 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:03:22 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Huntsville lunch I'm trying to decide what to do about lunch. Rather than kill an hour and half going somewhere, should I just get a bunch of BBQ sandwiches and some baked beans or something and eat here? Any suggestions and comments are welcome. Email me privately. This is probably getting pretty old for the non-pilgrims. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:22:15 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Huntsville airports. Ken wrote: > By the way, North Huntsville is the airport at Hazelgreen, correct? Ken, North Huntsville has been renamed to Madison County Executive, but Hazel Green is a whole 'nother place about 3 miles West. Hazel Green is only 40 feet wide and 2500' long and has some tall trees on one end of the runway that effectively make it a wierd one-way airport. It's probably where I'll keep my plane, but I wouldn't want to ask anybody ELSE to land there. It's virtually impossible to find from the air too, even if you're based there. Madison County is 5000', well lit, and plenty wide. You're welcome to come as soon as you'd like. I'll be trying to make my "boat" presentable. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:52:05 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: FLIGHT TRNG UPDATE At 10:50 AM 1/23/98 EST, you wrote: >Fellow KR-2 Builders/Owners, > > I am willing to "SHARE EXPENSES" in my KR-2 , once I have it in >flyable condition. Sorry for giving everybody the impression that I was >starting formal flight Training. > I assure everyone that my intentions were honarable. I have no >intention to violate any FARs. >Best Regards, >LLoyd I just wish I were close enough to share expenses and be able to get a bit of stick time. A very generous offer in my opinion. Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:52:44 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: KR: stock KR2 and Deihl wing comparison - -------------- I am not sure who was doing it, (maybe Martin Roberts KR) but shortly after the KR gathering there was a post about some one trading their stock KR wings with some one else's Deihl wings. They were doing some testing to see what the difference in performance was with the same plane and two differents wings. I never heard anything about how it turned out. Anyone know how it turned out???? Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:56:31 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: MLG Position?? steveb@aviation.denel.co.za wrote: > > Hi KRNetters > Rego, through Mark, asked for the main wheel axle position from the forward face of the main spar. Marvin said that his were 6and 1/2" behind the front of the > > The manual (if correct) recommends operating the CG between 8" and 16" aft of the root leading edge. Personally I prefer 30% chord which is 14" aft of the LE. > > Placing the axle at 6 and1/2" behind the fwd face of the main spar, translates to the CG being at 22% chord. This is the mean of the 15% and 30% chord. > > I get the impression that the 6 and 1/2 " would set the axle infront of the aft CG posn. My initial conclusion therefore is that you would not be able to execu > > However, I heard something about angular inertia forces as a result of the momentum of the aircraft and the arm from the axle to the cg position. Is this maybe > > Any comments on the subject?? > Steve in South Africa > steveb@aviation.denel.co.za > > -------------------- Steve: I do not know. Good question though. I just hope my gear works as good as the othe KR's that have the Deihl gear. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:36:40 -0500 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville lunch Mark Langford wrote: > > I'm trying to decide what to do about lunch. Rather than kill an > hour and half going somewhere, should I just get a bunch of BBQ > sandwiches and some baked beans or something and eat here? I hate to put you to any more trouble than we already are, but if you want to go that route, BBQ is fine with me(I'm from NC, so I'll be veery interested to see what Alabamans call BBQ). BTW, I *am* bringing a 12 pack of beer and I'll toss in a couple 6 packs of soda too. See ya tomorrow! Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:27:08 EST From: KRkip Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat Hi KRnetters In regards to the issue of cabin heat I fly my KR year round here in Maine and have cabin heat and found it to be effective in all temps down to about 15 degrees. I have a heat muff that i made that is located on the left exhaust manifold.I made the muff out of aluminum that was wrapped around a screen door spring that was stretched around the exhaust manifold first. This gives it a lot more surface to radiate the heat from. This is plenty to keep me warm and alllows me to fly without wearing a snowmobile suit. Regards KR Kip Kip lounsbury Lincoln ME ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:52:56 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat In a message dated 98-01-23 10:22:55 EST, you write: > > I'm likely going to be purchasing a KR plans and kit this spring after I >get my workshop situation straightened out. Since I live here in the great >wite >northland of Canada, where we have about 10 months of winter and 2 months of >poor sledding, I'm just wondering about the cabin heat situation with the KR. >Has anyone installed any sort of cabin heat? Or is it just the old fashioned >wool kind that's available? Not surprising this isn't not in the plans, considering where the designers lived. Basically you do it like the air-cooled bug engines in VW cars -- a heat exchanger off the exhaust pipe. Tony Bingelis's books from the EAA discuss how to make a flap device on the firewall that turns the airflow on and off, but you may not even need one where you live. I had a VW bus in Massachusetts on which I never bothered to set up the on/off device because weather when I didn't need heat was short enough I could just close the vent and open the windows. If you're putting an electrical system in, you could also use a supplementary electric heater (from JC Whitney's, etc.) that they sell for use in cars. Full draw from that would sap some engine power, but you don't usually need extra lift at the same time you need heat. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:19:58 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Huntsville lunch At 06:03 PM 1/23/98 -0600, you wrote: >> This is probably getting pretty old for the non-pilgrims. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL>> Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South West Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:22:27 -0800 From: darrin Subject: Re: KR: back to work mike cochran wrote: > > darrin wrote: > > > > Hello once again from South Ga. Quick question on elevator and > > rudder hinge brackets. Should nylock nuts be used or should they be > > cotter keyed? > > > Darrin, > Use castle nuts and cotter keys. Where are you located in South Ga. > I'm in Americus Ga. > > Mike Cochran > 75% KR II Hi Mike, I'm in Thomasville, Ga. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:25:17 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Re: SW KR Gathering (NO archive) >Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South West >Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Oh My,.......Its 1998!! Sounds good. Anyone in the NM/AZ area or do you guys mean CA? Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:03:00 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Spar Tapering Sequence Question Has anyone tapered the spars AFTER they were built? Seems like laying them out, clamping, and general handling would be easier if they could be tapered after construction rather than before... John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - laminating the spar caps Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:10:35 EST From: LVav8r Subject: Re: KR:SW KR Gathering Okay, I'll take the bait. There was some disscussion (I think that I even started it) last year about a SW KR Gathering here in Vegas. Parley Byington mentioned it to me when I went out to the Boulder City airport a couple of weeks ago to see his plane. So if there is enough intrest, I'll "volunteer" to unoffically co-host the event. Parley, HELP! I'm affraid that by saying that I'll regret it, but what the heck. I visited Mark Langford last year and learned quite a bit, and if I know that several other builders/flyers are going to visit, I might just clean up the house and get back to working on the plane. So long as it isn't too soon, a month or two from now, who would be intrested? There are at least two flying KR's (I think) in the area and at least two builders here, so there would be a few local KR people to show up. Or, we could just have one in So. Cal. (even better) and go to the RR office and include Jeanette. We might even convince her to get on the KRNet? Well she might not, but it was a thought. If it were in CA we could all invade Mims place and see first hand what he's been putting out on his web site. So, how about it guys? Us left coasters can't let the southern guys have all the fun. Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV LVav8r@aol.com http://members.aol.com/LVav8r/index.html KR-2S 2% complete __I__ _______( X )_______ o/ \o >Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South West >Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Oh My,.......Its 1998!! >Sounds good. Anyone in the NM/AZ area or do you guys mean CA? >Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:43:55 -0500 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Ellisons and fuel line (was N541RY Progress Update) At 02:40 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dennis Ambrose wrote: >> >> At 08:57 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >At 11:19 PM 1/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Ross: >> >> As I am only a KR "Buyer" and not a KR "Flyer" yet take this at face value >> >only, please. >> >> >> >> My airplane had a Hapi 1835 engine, an Ellison T.B.I. and 1/4 fuel line >> >GRAVITY FED ONLY from the header tank and the previous owner said he could >> >not run it "flat out" without the boost pump on............... >> > >> >There have been many documented cases of the Dragonfly guys having trouble >> >with the Ellison and 1/4 inch lines, don't do it! You need a 3/8 line from >> >the header tank to the carb if you want to run it on gravity alone! >> >Otherwise you will need a pump to achieve optimum performance. >> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >Micheal Mims >> >Happy Holidays to Everyone! >> > >> >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >> >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >> >> Mike: >> >> Did you not read the whole post? >> >> Regards dennis (in Toronto) >As an update... > I checked my Ellison manual and the recommended fuel pressure is >from 1/2-3psi. It might just be possible to get 1/2psi from the >header tank with some ram air into the vent. However, a boost >pump is still on the hit list for the header. > Again. The wing tanks have independant Facet fuel pumps so this >fuel (11Gal ea) is provided under pressure to the Ellison. > I'm just wondering if I can use the 5 gal reserve tank. > > -- Ross > Ross: The message here is that the header tank WILL work as a gravity feed tank(with a ram air tube). Just to be safe, use 3/8 line and a boost pump if you can accept the weight (bargain use of two lbs. - I.M.H.O.) Flat out performance may not be possible but you should make it down O.K. Regards Dennis (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:58:31 -0500 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Engine Choices At 12:32 AM 1/16/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-15 21:56:02 EST, you write: > ><< Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on these or any other > engines? >> > >Hello there. First of all, I think I should introduce myself. I'm Ben Raby >from Elk River Minnesota. Is there any one in my area? I'll be building a >Tri-gear KR-2S, and I'm just about ready to put in my first order for spuce. > >I've been looking into the Wankel Rotary engine. The conversion put out by >Mid West Engines (http://www.avnet.co.uk/midwestengines/) advertizes about 122 >lbs with the gear box, then what ever extra for the cooling system. Is there >any one out there using a rotary? If so, I'ld like to here more about them. > Who makes a rotary at 122 lbs.? Is this a single rotor Mazda conversion? What about horsepower and price? Regards Dennis (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:03:26 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR: Prop? Just when my flight testing started really getting fun, I had to send my prop back to Sterba for a little adjustment. I figure I will be grounded for about 2 weeks or so. I dont suppose anyone has a VW prop lying around that I could put to good use for a couple weeks? I would gladly pay shipping and any other expense, not to mention the fact that I would owe you a VERY big favor. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:03:46 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR:SW KR Gathering Vegas is closer yet to me and I probably could even make that one and even drive down there for the Left Side gathering. What time frame would this might be happening? John F. Esch Salem, OR LVav8r wrote: > Okay, > > I'll take the bait. There was some disscussion (I think that I even > started > it) last year about a SW KR Gathering here in Vegas. Parley Byington > mentioned > it to me when I went out to the Boulder City airport a couple of weeks > ago to > see his plane. So if there is enough intrest, I'll "volunteer" to > unoffically > co-host the event. Parley, HELP! I'm affraid that by saying that I'll > regret > it, but what the heck. I visited Mark Langford last year and learned > quite a > bit, and if I know that several other builders/flyers are going to > visit, I > might just clean up the house and get back to working on the plane. So > long as > it isn't too soon, a month or two from now, who would be intrested? > There are > at least two flying KR's (I think) in the area and at least two > builders here, > so there would be a few local KR people to show up. Or, we could just > have one > in So. Cal. (even better) and go to the RR office and include > Jeanette. We > might even convince her to get on the KRNet? Well she might not, but > it was a > thought. If it were in CA we could all invade Mims place and see first > hand > what he's been putting out on his web site. So, how about it guys? Us > left > coasters can't let the southern guys have all the fun. > > Tom Kilgore > Las Vegas, NV > LVav8r@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/LVav8r/index.html > KR-2S 2% complete > __I__ > _______( X )_______ > o/ \o > > >Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South > West > >Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims > >Oh My,.......Its 1998!! > > >Sounds good. Anyone in the NM/AZ area or do you guys mean CA? > > >Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:04:00 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: SW KR Gathering (NO archive) At 08:25 PM 1/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >Sounds good. Anyone in the NM/AZ area or do you guys mean CA? > >Ron Lee > I was thinking Ca, but............................??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:10:07 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Spar Tapering Sequence Question At 09:03 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >Has anyone tapered the spars AFTER they were built? Seems like laying them >out, clamping, and general handling would be easier if they could be >tapered after construction rather than before... > As far as taper to match the airfoil? That's what I am doing. If you mean cutting the double taper on the caps themselves that might be tricky. Humm...........don't know man! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:55:16 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Spar Tapering Sequence Question John Bouyea wrote: > > Has anyone tapered the spars AFTER they were built? Seems like laying them > out, clamping, and general handling would be easier if they could be > tapered after construction rather than before... > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - laminating the spar caps > Hillsboro, Oregon - ------------------ John: I do not think it would work. The taper is a double taper. With my small mind, I had a hard time keeping the tapers properly orientated when I glued the spars up. If I tried to to it another way it would really confuse me. On one spar, one face of the ply wood gets the straight edge and the other gets the taper. The other spar is different. Plus the first seven inches is straight for the wing attach fittings. Plus to cut all of the inside pieces you need the caps tapered so you can cut them to the proper length and width. If you redisigned the spar you could probably do it so you could just glue up a big spar and then taper it afterwords. The forward spar is a pretty big piece of wood when you get all done. It would take a big saw to taper it. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:59:14 EST From: Kr2dream Subject: Re: KR: EA81 Engine/cowling Oscar: I would be very interested in the cad drawing of the cowl. I will be fitting a standard RR cowl to a direct-drive Soob EA-81. Bob Lasecki Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:20:56 -0800 From: imort@webtv.net (Vangyi Chongtoua) Subject: KR: KR2S plan I have a set of KR2S for sales. Never been used. $150.00 ( value of $240.00). Call (619) 673-2748 or email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:43:08 EST From: BSHADR Subject: KR: SOCALKosh offer - hosted by Frick & Frack In a message dated 98-01-23 22:09:08 EST, Mike wrote: << Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South West Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? >> Geeze....is it whine time already? If anyone in the bottom left corner of America is interested, you can Email Mike or myself direct about having a SOCALKosh. Chino is a pretty cool airport and I wood guess we could set up enough fun stuff to do to fill most of a Saturday. Any takers? I''ll tell ya wot, I'm getting preety tired of 'ol Lanfgord hav'n all the fun... Randy (Frick) Stein BSHADR@aol.com Mike (Frack) Mims mikemims@pacbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:58:36, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: stock KR2 and Deihl wing comparison Marvin Martin Roberts and I have been testing the original wings vs the Diehl wings. There is no difference in top speed but there is a 400 FPM increase in climb with the Diehl wings. Also the plane takes less of a takeoff run, but due to traffic at RVS we are unable to get a measurment. For those interested, we flew today without wheel pants. The result was we went from 185 mph to 165 cruise. Jean N4DD Broken Arrow, OK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:48:30 -0800 From: darrin Subject: Re: KR: Prop? Tom Crawford wrote: > > Just when my flight testing started really getting fun, I had to send my > prop back to Sterba for a little adjustment. I figure I will be grounded > for about 2 weeks or so. > I dont suppose anyone has a VW prop lying around that I could put to > good use for a couple weeks? I would gladly pay shipping and any other > expense, not to mention the fact that I would owe you a VERY big favor. > > Tom Crawford > tomc@afn.org > Gainesville, FL > N262TC Tom, call me. 912-227-1991 Darrin West ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:11:03 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: SOCALKosh offer - hosted by Frick & Frack At 05:43 PM 1/24/98 EST, you wrote: Chino is a pretty cool airport and I wood guess we could set up >enough fun stuff to do to fill most of a Saturday. Any takers? > Heck if all else fails we can count cows! Nah there is plenty to do from eating at Flo's Diner to Visiting the Planes of Fame museum. Today I stood once again in awe as a P-51 took to the skies and did low passes down the runway. We have at least 3 or 4 flying KRs and who knows how many under construction! PS there is just about one of everything (old things that is) at the planes of fame museum and its only about 7 or 8 dollars to get in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:13:12 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Prop? At 06:48 PM 1/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >> I dont suppose anyone has a VW prop lying around that I could put to >> good use for a couple weeks? I would gladly pay shipping and any other >> expense, not to mention the fact that I would owe you a VERY big favor. >> >> Tom Crawford >Tom, call me. >912-227-1991 >Darrin West > Or call me, I have one over here on the left coast if you cant find one on the right coast. 714-856-1560 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:27:04 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat Mike, There are lots of KR's out there with cabin heat. Get Tony Bengelis's books and look at the application of the exhaust heat muff for carb heat, and take another duct for cabin heat. However be aware that an exhaust gas leak could vent CO into the cabin so get a CO detector and put it on the panel. I don't have cabin heat yet, but it is probably on the retrofit list for me. - -- Ross Mike Sharkey wrote: > > Good day KRnetters, > > I'm likely going to be purchasing a KR plans and kit this spring after I > get my workshop situation straightened out. Since I live here in the great wite > northland of Canada, where we have about 10 months of winter and 2 months of > poor sledding, I'm just wondering about the cabin heat situation with the KR. > Has anyone installed any sort of cabin heat? Or is it just the old fashioned > wool kind that's available? > > Mike Sharkey > X11 Development > SoftArc Inc. > http://www.softarc.com/~msharkey - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:33:18 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat KRkip wrote: > > Hi KRnetters > In regards to the issue of cabin heat I fly my KR year round here in > Maine and have cabin heat and found it to be effective in all temps down to > about 15 degrees. I have a heat muff that i made that is located on the left > exhaust manifold.I made the muff out of aluminum that was wrapped around a > screen door spring that was stretched around the exhaust manifold first. This > gives it a lot more surface to radiate the heat from. This is plenty to keep > me warm and alllows me to fly without wearing a snowmobile suit. > Regards KR Kip > Kip lounsbury Lincoln ME Kip, This is similar to the carb heat muff I built based on Tony's Sportplane Builder series of books. However, I made my own flange and am not happy with it, I may order some flanges from ACS before I'm all done. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:35:49 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat MikeTnyc@aol.com wrote: > If you're putting an electrical system in, you could also use a supplementary > electric heater (from JC Whitney's, etc.) that they sell for use in cars. > Full draw from that would sap some engine power, but you don't usually need > extra lift at the same time you need heat. > > Mike Taglieri My first concern regarding an electrical heater would be the alternator output. Heaters suck a lot of current, you don't want to have to power down the radio and fuel pumps just to stay warm. As long as the alternator can handle the extra current load... I think you would be OK. - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:37:25 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Spar Tapering Sequence Question John Bouyea wrote: > > Has anyone tapered the spars AFTER they were built? Seems like laying them > out, clamping, and general handling would be easier if they could be > tapered after construction rather than before... If I recall correctly the vertical spacers get LONGER as you go outboard on the spar. I think you would have to do at least some limited tapering to make this work. Also, if you make a mistake on one spar cap, you just rebuild the spar cap, if you make a mistake on the spar, you make an entire new spar, verticals and all. -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 (Note Area code) Corvallis,Oregon Mailto:rossy@San-Jose.ate.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:50:21 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: stock KR2 and Deihl wing comparison MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > Marvin > Martin Roberts and I have been testing the original wings vs the > Diehl wings. There is no difference in top speed but there is a 400 > FPM increase in climb with the Diehl wings. Also the plane takes less > of a takeoff run, but due to traffic at RVS we are unable to get a > measurment. For those interested, we flew today without wheel pants. > The result was we went from 185 mph to 165 cruise. > Jean > N4DD > Broken Arrow, OK Maybe this 400fpm climb boost is worth the $2500 for the wing skins? How much time will the wing skins save? I hear the surface is really good on the KR-2S wing skins and needs little prep. I bought my foam and glass, but would like to save some time and get high quality wings. I thought wheel pants added only 8mph to cruise speed. 20mph seems to be more than the usual increase. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:06:47 -0700 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: KR-2 Project FS Picked up from a newsgroup site...no knowledge of the project. Ron Lee Email address: Konan@mail.vsu.edu Fuselage (boat) and center spars completed and on landing gear. Rudder, stabilizer and elevator completed and glassed. Canopy and canopy frame, turtledeck,fuel tank, front deck and cowling all Rand Robinson prefab. Wheels, brakes, tires, control stick installed. Hardware, fiberglass cloth, and all wood necessary to complete. Will need to buy foam for wings and epoxy. Located central Virginia. $2200.00 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:27:57 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: stock KR2 and Deihl wing comparison Tom Andersen wrote: > MR JEAN R VERON wrote: > > Martin Roberts and I have been testing the original wings vs the > > Diehl wings. There is no difference in top speed but there is a 400 > > FPM increase in climb with the Diehl wings. > Maybe this 400fpm climb boost is worth the $2500 for the wing skins? > How much time will the wing skins save? Without looking at the specs and checking all the numbers, I believe that the ROC difference is due entirely to the extra length of the Diehl wing. With the long wing, Vy is slower and the ROC increases accordingly. If the wings were the same length and chord, the performance would depend on the quality of construction and finish. I would have expected the Diehl wing to be slightly slower, since there is more area and therefore more drag, but if the finish is better, then the differences must cancel out. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:03:02 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: FLIGHT TRAINING Hi gang, Check me on this as I'm a little rusty, but isn't it illegal to provide commercial services in an experimental acft? - -Peter- Ross wrote: > > Lloyd, > The person thinking about a flight sylabus was me...(Ross). > I think your rate is quite good, where in Va are you? > -- Ross > > Lloyd Perkins,Jr. wrote: > > > > Hello All , > > I am interested in providing flight training in my KR-2 here in Va.... > > Lloyd > > E-MAIL LEPERKINS@JUNO.COM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:11:23 -0800 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Re: SW KR Gathering (NO archive) Ron Lee wrote: > > >Yea your beginning to make me think Randy and I should have a South West > >Mimskosh or Steinkosh better yet how about Chinokosh! Randy??? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Micheal Mims Count me in! - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:12:38 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: stock KR2 and Deihl wing comparison At 07:50 PM 1/24/98 -0500, you wrote: Maybe this 400fpm climb boost is worth the $2500 for the wing skins? I am willing to bet the climb performance is due to a higher aspect ratio and or a little weight savings. >I thought wheel pants added only 8mph to cruise speed. 20mph seems to be more than the usual increase. >-Tom > > Wheel pants on a slick bird like a KR could account for 20 mph according to some of the stuff I have read (Kent Phasers book). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Oh My,.......Its 1998!! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:42:59 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Plans...Hello, Michele! Hey, Michele- here are the plans you were looking for! Grab them quick... >From: imort@webtv.net (Vangyi Chongtoua) >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:20:56 -0800 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: KR2S plan >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >I have a set of KR2S for sales. Never been used. $150.00 ( value of >$240.00). >Call (619) 673-2748 or email. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:57:30 EST From: leperkins@juno.com (Lloyd Perkins,Jr.) Subject: KR: ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!! Fellow KR- Owners/ Builders, WHAT WAS I THINKING !!!???? I here by formally rescind my offer for any and all flight training, be it sharing expenses or accepting non-refundable deposits...... I promise on my honor as a Certified Flight Instructor never to take any body other than myself in any Aircraft, other than those built by Cessna, Piper or Beech or any other certificated Aircraft for the purpose of training.......... WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!!!!!????? My Sincerest Apology to all those appropriated rated Pilots who I must have offended It will NEVER happen again....................... Best Regards, Lloyd P.S. Hope .......... Ah never mind ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:07:05 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: FLIGHT TRAINING Folks, I have seen a lot of comments about Lloyd's offer and want to bring up several points here.. 1 - "Sharing expenses" is perfectly legal. 2 - There is a great need for assistance to builders in getting checked out in the KR. 3 - It is much safer to get checked out, than to bumble along by one's self. 4 - Who better to do assistance than a CFI? 5 - Why do some people always think they know more than anyone else and try to screw things up? It isn't appreciated you know! I fully intend to get check ride training before I go flying off into the wild blue with my new KR2S because it is THE SENSIBLE THING TO DO. I believe everyone has been taught to do this in their flight training regarding an unfamilar plane ... went something like this, "while being rated SEL makes you legal in any single engine land, since different planes have different characteristics it is smart and highly recommended that you get a check ride in any plane you have not flown before". Lloyd, if your around when I get my machine going I'd like to book at least a dozen check rides and familarization training flights. Ok? By the way, I've got International flight experience (ICAO) in Europe and still want the check ride training. Rich "KR2S XXL will travel" McCall Junction City, KS Lloyd Perkins,Jr. wrote: > Oscar, > Im not trying to get rich........ Only share expenses !!! Besides Im > already rich !!!! > God has given me all I need !!! > Thanks, > Lloyd > > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:06:09 PST "Oscar Zuniga" > writes: > > > > > >>Hello All , > >> I am interested in providing flight training in my KR-2 here in > >Va.... > >>At one time someone was working on a flight training sylabis for the > >KR-2 > >>.. Did it get finished???? I am A Certified Flght Insructor and an > >>A/P. All those interested should contact me and let me know . I > >think > >>35.00 per hour for me and the Airplane is resonable... Dont you > >agree?? > > > >Holy smokes, man! I pay that much just for the plane (C-150)! Around > > > >here, instructors (basic) run $20/hr., which means you're _giving_ > >away > >your time as far as I'm concerned. > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >Medford, Oregon > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:07:34 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat In a message dated 98-01-24 22:20:49 EST, you write: >> If you're putting an electrical system in, you could also use a >supplementary >> electric heater (from JC Whitney's, etc.) that they sell for use in cars. >> Full draw from that would sap some engine power, but you don't usually need >> extra lift at the same time you need heat. >> >> Mike Taglieri > >My first concern regarding an electrical heater would be the >alternator output. Heaters suck a lot of current, you don't >want to have to power down the radio and fuel pumps just to >stay warm. As long as the alternator can handle the extra >current load... I think you would be OK. > >-- Ross The standard Great Plains style alternator theoretically puts out 20 amps -- 240 watts. Assuming this figure is at least semi-accurate, I think you could spare 50-100 watts to power a heater, at least for short periods, and I was assuming you'd be using this electric heater only occasionally, or to supplement the heat-muff off the exhaust on colder days. Off the top of my head, I'd estimate 50-75 watts max for a distributor-type ignition system (no drain at all if you use just a magneto, of course), and pretty trivial amounts for a modern transponder and radio. That would leave you quite a bit of juice to spare. Night flying, of course, would use more. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:07:31 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Spar Tapering Sequence Question >> Has anyone tapered the spars AFTER they were built? Seems like laying them >> out, clamping, and general handling would be easier if they could be >> tapered after construction rather than before... I can't tell from just looking at the manual, but it appears as though you're cutting one piece of wood to get both tapered spars, with the part you cut off forming one tapered spar and the part not cut off forming the other, so doing this after the spars were built would use a lot more wood. Can anybody confirm this, because the manual is not clear. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:07:39 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: KR: Winter Survival (formerly Cabin heat) >> In regards to the issue of cabin heat I fly my KR year round here in >> Maine and have cabin heat and found it to be effective in all temps down to >> about 15 degrees. I have a heat muff that i made that is located on the >left >> exhaust manifold.I made the muff out of aluminum that was wrapped around a >> screen door spring that was stretched around the exhaust manifold first. >This >> gives it a lot more surface to radiate the heat from. This is plenty to >keep >> me warm and alllows me to fly without wearing a snowmobile suit. >> Regards KR Kip >> Kip lounsbury Lincoln ME Depending on where you live, you may still want to carry that snowmobile suit and other survival gear in case of a forced landing. Not to be pessimistic, but an experimental plane might be more likely to have engine trouble than a certified plane, and your nice cabin heat won't keep you alive in winter in a northern state. You could force-land safely in a desolate area, then die of exposure. Mike Taglieri P.S. Don't be so smug, you California boys -- you could force land safely in the desert, then die of thirst. . . . ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #23 ****************************