From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 2:55 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #41 krnet-l-digest Monday, February 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 041 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:49:04 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Wing Fittings Micheal Mims wrote: > > Well after some thought I decided maybe putting a few photos up on the net > to help people decide if they happen to be owners of the WAFs that are > flexi-flyers. Everyone please keep in mind this in not an direct attack on > RR I just feel better knowing I have done all I can to make sure these > things never make it in the air! I am sure RR will do the right thing. > Anyway the URL is: > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/wafs.html > > You can see in some of the pictures the edges are not properly cleaned up > and something I noticed today upon closer examination is the fact that none > of the holes are chamfered. The only cad plating that I have ever seen has the looks like the cad plating on AN bolts, rather dull, can be scraped off with a bit of work, etc. have never seen cad plating that looks as shiny as those, but it is hard to tell on the net. I don't know a lot about plating, but I do know that it is possible to do it wrong and ruin the material properties. It is impossible to tell via a picture. If they were made from normalized 4130 steel that was properly treated, you would have needed a hammer and vice to bend those. Very scary! - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:01:04 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wing Fittings Mike, Thanks for these photos & post. Are you sure you haven't been working out? (Just kidding.) We could use these for a Superman demo. I'm still fighting PC problems. It's really cramping my ability to update my webpage ARRG, but I hope to post your link soon. - -- Ross Micheal Mims wrote: > Well after some thought I decided maybe putting a few photos up on the net > to help people decide if they happen to be owners of the WAFs that are > flexi-flyers. Everyone please keep in mind this in not an direct attack on > RR I just feel better knowing I have done all I can to make sure these > things never make it in the air! I am sure RR will do the right thing. > Anyway the URL is: > > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/wafs.html > > You can see in some of the pictures the edges are not properly cleaned up > and something I noticed today upon closer examination is the fact that none > of the holes are chamfered. Humm.......... > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Building outer wings now > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:58:32 -0600 From: "Pdrdean" Subject: KR: Fumes As I am gettin gready to begin building my KR2S I have been "setting up shop." Since I live in Wisconsin (about an hour's drive from Oshkosh) a fair portion of my building will have to be done indoors due to all of the snow and ice in my garage. (Winter sucks!) My shop in the basement is about 20' x 12' and I'm wondering how much the epoxy fumes are going to be a problem. I figured I can get one of those squirrel-cage fans and blow most of the noctious gas out the window (I love those bean burritos!). This should be sufficient for the wood work but when your sloshing the large volumes (surface areas) of epoxy around when glassing I'm not so sure. - Any thoughts. You all have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do. Secondly; Since I live so close to Oshkosh I have spent quite a few hours in the Boeing Aeronautical Library at the EAA Center. An impressive place. More than 8000 books, 60,000 magazines and something like 10,000 drawings and plans, however, their resources on the KR aircraft is very limited. Like nothing. Which is surprising for how popular it is. If anybody has old plans, drawings, contruction books etc. that they no longer need the library would love to get them as donations. They might even be tax deductable - you'd have to check with them. I know that for big donations they work some kind of deal with you (life memberships etc.) The folks that work there are also happy to provide members with technical information. Its all part of your membership. (Rereading this it kinda sounds like a commercial - I went into the wrong line of work.) They have helped me out a lot - so this is the least that I can do. You can contact them at (920) 426-4848 if you have anything you wouldn't mind donating. Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:10:40 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Wing Fittings At 16:39 2/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >Well after some thought I decided maybe putting a few photos up on the net >to help people decide if they happen to be owners of the WAFs that are >flexi-flyers. ... >Micheal Mims I took a look at Mike's pics. I wasn't sure of the critical dimensions of the weak wing fitting - so I prepared a steel coupon 0.125 x 0.85 x 6 inches. I couldn't bend it by hand. If the critical dimension of the wing fitting is anywhere close to this width it's possible somebody picked up a sample of some other metal; maybe tin, more likely zinc. Either of these would bend in the hand and look 'different'. One reasonable way to test the hypothesis is to weigh a good 'un and a bad 'un. Preferably in air AND suspended by a thread in water. Steel density 7.8 to 7.9 Youngs modulus (stiffness) 210GPa Tin 7.3 40 Zinc 7.14 110 If anybody wants to help with this analysis, tell me exactly what the width of the fitting is, from the edge to the hole where Mike bent it and I'll check a more accurate coupon. Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 07:21:07 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Weight In a message dated 98-02-14 07:30:52 EST, you write: << Troy Petteway's KR2 weighs about 525 pounds and I think that's a > great target weight for the standard KRs. >> Tom, I may have missed it sometime, I'm sure others are interested, what did your KR come in at. I believe N616TJ is going to come in at around 560, with electrics. I haven't been real dubious in weight department. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:09:28 -0600 From: "Tony King" Subject: KR: parachute How hard would it be to put a blastic parachute on a KR and how much would it cost? I went to a local expermental clubs flyin and one of the older members said that there usually wasn't much left of a KR when they crash of corse he was trying to sell a RV-4 so I don't know how reliable the info is. Anyway that's why I wan't to know. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:13:42 -0600 From: "Tony King" Subject: KR: Engines I read an article in Kitplanes about building KR-2s. One man had used Subaru EA-82 that he bought new for $1047. Are there any other engines that are that affordable? Does the Subaru run as good as a VW? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:25:43 -0600 From: "Tony King" Subject: KR: Engines I read an article in Kitplanes about building KR-2s. One man had used Subaru EA-82 that he bought new for $1047. Are there any other engines that are that affordable? Does the Subaru run as good as a VW? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:28:01 -0600 From: "Tony King" Subject: KR: parachute How hard would it be to put a blastic parachute on a KR and how much would it cost? I went to a local expermental clubs flyin and one of the older members said that there usually wasn't much left of a KR when they crash of corse he was trying to sell a RV-4 so I don't know how reliable the info is. Anyway that's why I wan't to know. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:11:17 EST From: XZOSTD1@aol.com Subject: KR: Fume solution?? Since I started my project Jan. of 97 I also had to work in the fumes. Here was my solution: I built a positive pressure mask using a less than $50.00 shop vac from Fleet Farm (Farm & Fleet) You don't smell anything except that fresh Wisconsin air. If you want details, ask and you shall receive. Bill Huntley KR2S With all the wood stuff and some of the foam stuff done. Green Bay, WI. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:38:35 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: KR Weight Tom Crawford wrote: > > KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 98-02-14 07:30:52 EST, you write: > > > > << Troy Petteway's KR2 weighs about 525 pounds and I think that's a > > > great target weight for the standard KRs. >> > > > > Tom, > > > > I may have missed it sometime, I'm sure others are interested, what did your > > KR come in at. I believe N616TJ is going to come in at around 560, with > > electrics. I haven't been real dubious in weight department. > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY > > kr2616tj@aol.com > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > Dana, > > N262TC now weighs in at 650 lbs. That is with the type 4 motor, dual > ignition, starter, alternator, full electrics (nice VFR panel, VAL 760 > Com radio, intercom, Whelen wingtip lights and strobes, BIG battery), > Imron paint, nice interior, MAC trim, wheelpants. > Sounds heavy, but I only weigh 145 lbs., so with full fuel I fly at > about 800 lbs. One of the benefits of being a scrawny little guy. > I am just starting to get a handle on my speeds. > So far- > 3500 RPM at 4500 ft. gives 145mph indicated at 17C. Whiz wheel says 158. > 3150 RPM at 3500 ft. gives 135mph indicated at 17C. Whiz wheel says 144. > 3000 RPM at 3500 ft. gives 125mph indicated at 17C. Whiz wheel says 134. > ROC at sea level thru 3000ft. at 17C and 810lbs. is 1200FPM. > > I have never checked the accuracy of my pitot static system. I plan to > check with GPS at the earliest opportunity. > If these speeds are correct, am I happy with them? You bet! Beats the > hell out of flying at 95 MPH in a rented spam can. > When I was building, I decided my plane would be a little heavy because > I wanted a nice, comfortable, dependable airplane that could be > restarted in the air. > Looking back, there are acouple of things I would do different. First, I > would not use Imron paint. I would use an acrylic enamel- probably save > quite a bit of weight here. Also- I would leave the lights and strobes > off. > Yea, and one of these days I'm gonna put that stroker crank in it to get > 2600+cc's. > > Tom Crawford > tomc@afn.org > Gainesville, FL > N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:57:14 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Fumes Pdrdean wrote: > > > > My shop in the basement is about 20' x 12' and I'm wondering how much the > epoxy fumes are going to be a problem. I figured I can get one of those > squirrel-cage fans and blow most of the noctious gas out the window (I love > those bean burritos!). This should be sufficient for the wood work but when > your sloshing the large volumes (surface areas) of epoxy around when > glassing I'm not so sure. - Any thoughts. You all have a lot more > experience with this stuff than I do. > > - ----------------------------------- Dean: I think you are right. When you start glassing, the fumes will be to much for inside your house. You may be able to put up with it, but My opinion is that it would not be healthy to go to sleep every night with epoxy fumes kicking off. The small amount doing the wood work probably would not matter. Just my opinion. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:01:46 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: KR speed Tony King wrote: > > I read in the AreoCrafter that the KR was suposed to cruse at 180 mph and > have a top speed of 200 mph but I read an article in kitplanes that had > most of there speeds at 160 mph. What gives? - ---------------- There are KRs that go 200 mph but they are very light weight and very clean. Just look at the weight of the original KR and compare that weight to almost all of the KRs being built today. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:13:41 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Fumes At 09:57 AM 2/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dean: > I think you are right. When you start glassing, the fumes will be to >much for inside your house. You may be able to put up with it,>>> I found out the hard way that putting up with the odor had nothing to do with the effects on the body! If you can,.. try to figure out how to keep the fumes OUT of your house. I was using AeroPoxy last summer and it is supposed to be one of the less toxic epoxies. It has very little odor but I figured out after a month or so it gave me an incredible headache the day after! I don't think you want you family members walking around the house feeling like I felt, it really sucked! PS It seems that everyone has a different reaction to various epoxies. I have never had a problem with Safe-t-poxy (EZ-Poxy) but AeroPoxy kicked my butt! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:46:37 EST From: Kr2dream@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Traveling Resource Library. Oscar: Please put my name on the list for the CD when it is available. Thanks. Bob Lasecki Chicago - cold but still building. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:51:40 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Ed Sterba Props Hello KRNETTERS, I have heard many KR pilots swear by the Ed Sterba props. Are these expensive props or hard to get? What's a good brand of prop for an 1835cc VW? Thank you in advance for your replies. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:10:43 -0600 From: Ed Janssen Subject: Re: KR: Ed Sterba Props Tom, Ed Definitely makes some good props. I've visited his shop (above his garage) a few times - fascinating watching him work. He knows what he's doing, has many years of experience and he'll advise you on the pitch that's about right for your particular VW (cc). There are other good prop makers out there too, of course. I'm only familiar with Sterba props, having flown behind several of them with no problems noted. Prices will vary among propmakers. Last I knew Sterba props for V-dubs were about for $250-$300, but that was a few years ago. Give him a call - he's a nice guy to talk with. Ed Janssen At 01:51 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello KRNETTERS, >I have heard many KR pilots swear by the Ed Sterba props. Are these >expensive props or hard to get? >What's a good brand of prop for an 1835cc VW? >Thank you in advance for your replies. >-Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 20:19:00 GMT From: "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" Subject: KR: BAckground reading kr listers, can anyone help me with copies of the following hard to get articles (in the UK) AJ Smith, Design and fabrication of a very efficient prototype composite aircraft, Contact Magazine issue 14 Larry Lam, An innovative approach to aircraft roll control, Contact Magazine 15 July Aug 1993 A Raspet, Flight measured aerodynamics of Wittmans Tailwind, Experimenter Magazine Oct 1956 If you know where I could get copies I would be very grateful Richard Mole R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:00:46 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Ed Sterba Props At 15:10 2/15/98 -0600, Ed Janssen wrote: >Tom, > >Ed Definitely makes some good props. I've visited his shop (above his >garage) a few times - fascinating watching him work.... >Ed Janssen > >At 01:51 PM 2/15/98 -0500, Tom wrote:... >>I have heard many KR pilots swear by the Ed Sterba props. Are these >>expensive props or hard to get? >>What's a good brand of prop for an 1835cc VW?... >>-Tom I was disappointed to find a couple months ago, that info on wood prop makers was hard to come by on internet so I cooked up a phone contact list, and added details of all hub sizes. Now the list is rather too bulky just to bomb out onto the list. So if anybody want me to send a copy, please email me at inet@intellisys.net Regards brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:45:03 -0800 From: Melvin Poradun Subject: Re: KR: Traveling Resource Library. Kr2dream@aol.com wrote: > > Oscar: > > Please put my name on the list for the CD when it is available. > > Thanks. > > Bob Lasecki > Chicago - cold but still building. Me to Mel Poradun Ferndale, WA KR2S Mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:37:33 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Weight Tom, You said in your earlier post that you would not use Imron paint but instead go with an acrylic enamel. I have not figured paint weight into my total empty weight yet because I don't know what I am going to use yet. What do you think the Imron paint added to your total weight and how much could I save with an acrylic enamel? By the way, I'm sure it does beat the hell out of poking around in a spam can and your numbers look good. I like that 1200FPM thru 3000ft. I'm envious. Thanks Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:33:46 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Empty Weight (was Bohemian Coolness) In a message dated 98-02-14 13:16:57 EST, you write: << My KR is gona be one ugly unit when it first hits the skies, no paint (if I need to add strakes, farings etc I do not want to ruin a good paint job) and like I said very minimal interior and instruments. Oh well sometimes ugly is good! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> I've been sort of wondering about this too, Mike. Should one have at least a primer on it and leave the final paint job for the "finished product"? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:32:15 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: parachute >How hard would it be to put a blastic parachute on a KR and how much would >it cost? I went to a local expermental clubs flyin and one of the older >members said that there usually wasn't much left of a KR when they crash of >corse he was trying to sell a RV-4 so I don't know how reliable the info >is. Anyway that's why I wan't to know. Enthusiasts of the bigger planes seem always to be knocking KR's as "toys," etc., and this sounds like more of the same. If by "crash" you mean out-of- control impact with terrain, I don't think any plane is heavy enough in construction to protect you -- even a 747. On the other hand, if "crash" means a controlled forced landing after an engine out, a KR might be damaged, but you'd walk away from it if you did it right, just as with most planes (also, the KR has a better glide ratio than many spamcans and a pretty slow stall speed). For maximum survivability, I'd want a rollbar (like the very nice one in the RV) and a header tank of something other than plain fiberglass, but I don't think a ballistic parachute is needed. Also, I assume they weigh quite a bit. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:49:42 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Fumes In a message dated 98-02-15 13:22:40 EST, you write: << I found out the hard way that putting up with the odor had nothing to do with the effects on the body! If you can,.. try to figure out how to keep the fumes OUT of your house. >> Dean, I think that by the time you get to this post you will have figured out that you need some way to vent the fumes. For two years I had no problem at all, but was doing all the glassing in my hangar, which is like glassing outside. Since I moved the project to my garage for the winter work, I tried heating the garage with a heater and glassing. The glass would set up but everytime I worked in it, any "sensitive" skin areas, like my eye lids, would get red and the skin would peel just like a sunburn. I have stopped glassing until I can work outside to finish up this spring. If you're gonna do it, vent to the outside so that everyone doesn't feel the effects, it can be nasty stuff. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:54:06 EST From: XZOSTD1@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR: Fume solution??Details This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_887594047_boundary Content-ID: <0_887594047@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_887594047_boundary Content-ID: <0_887594047@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: XZOSTD1@aol.com Return-path: To: pzman@wctc.net Subject: Re: KR: Fume solution??Details Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:44:12 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Positive pressure mask details. Purchase a cheap plastic shop vac with a exposed motor. Put it outside Wander around Fleet Farm (or a good substitute) to find connectors to attach clear nylon reinforced 3/4" tubing to the vacs air outlet. The irrigation fittings work good. I attached the other end of the hose to a belt which I wear, then attached a hose to a army surplus style gas mask. I also inserted a tee into the hose to help dump excess air to regulate air into the mask. The connection from the mask to the belt has a plastic irrigation quick connect. It works very good with maybe a $75.00 total investment. Bill Huntley Green Bay, WI. KR2S - --part0_887594047_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:29:52 EST From: XZOSTD1@aol.com Subject: KR: Re:I have a chute I have in my hands a BRS chute system. Price 2995.00 plus $48.00 shipping. The chute mounts behind the seats at a very slight rearward angle. It is contained in a approx. 10"x20" tube . It launches thru a fabric panel you build into the turtle deck. The chute has 3 kevlar lanyards that run through the turtle deck. One follows the top of the turtle deck re-enters near the hor. stab. and attaches to the tailwheel mount area. The other 2 run thru the turtle deck opening straight down the fuselage sides on top of the wing under your wing fillets and wrap around the forward inner wing spars. The idea is that upon deployment the chute raises the nose of the plane helping to slow the plane as the chute fully opens. The plane hits the ground at approx. 500 ft. per min.(std. cond.??) with a tail low attitude. The splintering spruce helps to absorb some of the impact(I Hope!!) Bill Huntley (with plane tickets in hand for Sun-N-Fun) Green Bay, WI. KR2S ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:39:14 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR Empty Weight (was Bohemian Coolness) At 08:33 PM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote: > I've been sort of wondering about this too, Mike. Should one have at >least >a primer on it and leave the final paint job for the "finished product"? > Oh yea I do plan to prime it but no color. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:50:41 EST From: RFreibe131@aol.com Subject: KR: Fumes are to be avoided We used the FPL16a epoxy to build several projects. I would have thought you could put it on pancakes. Another builder from Fort Wayne (IND) missed work every mMonday 'til he figured out that he worked on the airplane on weekends and was sick after... Hugh Cunningham's dog (years ago) (many)0 nearly died of Chirrosis of the liver from Airolite glue. It's not the smell that gets you, but some products stink to make you avoid the fumes. If you start to develop a sensitivity.... quit. Don't wait for a strong message. Ron Freiberger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:54:19 EST From: RFreibe131@aol.com Subject: KR: ugly is good Flying an ugly airplane is more fun than painting an airplane. One guy said a bad day at the river beats a good day at work , any time. Go fly Mike Ron Freiberger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:59:41 EST From: RFreibe131@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank Plastic tanks are for lawnmowers. Several people have perished due to failures in plastic tanks. In this area, two KR's are down for tank build/repair. If nothing else, they leak. One freind crashed because the epoxy tank shed crap into the fuel. Check the Ellison web pages for Tank and FILTER info. Ron Freiberger KR2S under roof in Fort Myrers.. formerly "on the gear" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:06:23 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: parachute Tony King wrote: > > How hard would it be to put a blastic parachute on a KR and how much > would it cost? I have some "older" prices. BRS-900 $2295, 24 pounds, 135 mph max deployment speed, 900 lb max BRS-1050 $2695, 24 pounds, 155 mph, 1050 lb BRS-1200 $2995, 28 pounds, 145 mph, 1200 lb They can be installed, but I think you have to plan for it during the building process, not just do at the end of the poject. When you figure that an individual parachute is about $1000, the prices don't seem too bad. I was very impressed when I watched the C-152 certification testing videos. Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:09:29 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Fumes Pdrdean wrote: > My shop in the basement is about 20' x 12' and I'm wondering how much the > epoxy fumes are going to be a problem. I figured I can get one of those > squirrel-cage fans and blow most of the noctious gas out the window My shop is detached from the house, and the wife still hates when I do heavy glass work. I don't notice the smell, but the fumes do affect me. I have to wear a respirator for any work and can not tolerate any skin contact. Other people can handle it just fine. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:27:27 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: URGENT I think! After to reading Micheal Mims urgent note about RR WAF's , I headed to my workshop. I purchased the full set from Jeanette Rand last year at Oshkosh. I also have eight fwd spar fittings with "dull" Tin plating and eight with the bright tin ("chrome ") plating. I tried to bend them by applying my full weight (185 lbs.)over the edge of the workbench at one of the fitting lightening holes. No luck on bending the fittings (all 16). Only a slight bow (~1/32 inch) was possible. I agree with Mike that he must have some bogus fittings. Anyone else suspect their parts? I suggest that anyone that has purchased WAF fittings recently try the same test. Thanks to MM for alerting us to a potentially serious problem. Really enjoy the KRnet as a great source of tips and idea exchange. My KR2S is about 20% done ( boat with spars). Anyone building in my area is welcome to visit; Toronto , Ontario Canada. REgards Chris Gardiner At 05:21 PM 2/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >Sports fans, I was out at the hanger today getting ready to mount up the >WAFs that I bought from RR a few days ago and discovered something strange. >I already had two WAFs that were made by Ken Brock so I only bought 6 from >Janette to make up a set for the outer wings. Anyway I notice the new ones >look much different that the Ken Brock units (quality looked to be much >less) so I asked if these new ones were from Ken and Janette said no and >didn't bother to say where they were from. They seem to have an almost >chrome like finish and the edges of the fitting was very rough (like the die >was dull). Anyway she assured me they were 4130 so I went on my way. Well >today just for the hell of it I grabbed one of the chrome looking WAFs and >tried to bend it (yes just with my bear hands) and was surprised to find >these things were VERY soft!! I could bend it in a U shape if I tried! I >remembered back to the 4130 WAFs I made and I know I couldn't bend those >ones what so ever! So I tried to bend one of the Ken Brock units and with >all my might I could not even begin to deform the fitting!! So I tried >another one of the chrome WAFs and once again I was able to bend it with no >problem!!! Something aint right here folks! What's up with this picture? >Any of you engineer types care to comment on WAFs that are what I would call >MILD steel? I called RR but they had closed shop for the day and of course >they are closed on Friday so if they don't call me back I wont know anything >until next Monday. One thing I do know is I AINT USING THESE THINGS!! >Does anyone have Ken Brocks number? I need to call him to try and find out >why RR is not using his WAFs any longer but more importantly to see if he >will sell me 6 to replace these things I got from RR. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Regional Sales Manager................. Schlumberger Electricity Division...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR cgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:27:49 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: Re: Mechanical brakes. Thanks ,Dana. Regards Chris Gardiner At 06:54 PM 2/13/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-12 05:07:46 EST, you write: > ><<<< Are you using the 5/8 or 3/4 dia. axles? > > > What had to be machined off.? > > > Are you using the individual heel brake horizontal cylinders Steve shows or >some vertical type like Matco.? > > > Best REgards > > > Chris Gardiner >> > >Chris, > >Sorry to be so late getting back too you. I am using 5/8 axles and the >cylinders that Steve sells. When I put the whole shabang together the the >outer bearing was riding on the threads of the axle. My wheels were obviously >a little wider than those Steve sells. I machined just enough off the >shoulder, on the back of the axle, to clear the threads. You can buy a toe >activate gizmo from Steve or you can make one, I made one using 6061 T stock >and soft steel flat stock. A picture of this is on the construction page of >web site, it's the last one on that page. > >Good Luck! > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Regional Sales Manager................. Schlumberger Electricity Division...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR cgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:26:30 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank At 09:59 PM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote: >Plastic tanks are for lawnmowers. Several people have perished due to >failures in plastic tanks. >>> Actually all the new cars utilize plastic tanks, are you talking plastic of fiberglass tanks? If I could find someone to make me plastic (the kind used in autos) tanks to fit in my wings I would be stoked! Seems the plastic (ABS or PVC I forget) tanks are the only ones that can withstand the crap they put in autofuel these days. As far as fiberglass tanks go,...I think they are just like anything else, if built and used properly there are no problems. 3,000 LongEZs cant be wrong! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:40:29 EST From: DC4FREE@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Traveling Resource Library. Oscar: Guess I'll bite on this also, please put my name on the list for the CD when it is available. Thanks. Don Wright Pain Field, WA. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:12:09 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: Fumes Dean, I just finished the bulk of the woodwork on my KR2S using T88 epoxy in my basement here in the Canadian winter ( as cold as Wisconsin, trust me on this). The T88 is not too bad , although I would advise using an extractor fan ( cheap bathroom exhaust type $20.) whenever you are gluing. Also turn off your furnace fan for about two to three hours to prevent the fumes from spreading throughout your house.The trouble with epoxy fumes is that they are harmful even if they don't smell toxic/bad. Once the T88 starts to set up , the smell fades. As for the f/glass epoxy, do it outside during the summer weather. That is what I will be doing starting in April/May or 65F whichever comes first. Even the West System epoxy that I will be using for the glass can get pretty awful smelling in a closed environment like a basement. I seem to remember an article in Sport Aviation within the last year or two on this subject. Apparently, what I recall most is that epoxy poisoning has a cummulative effect in your system with no way for your body to purge it out. Long term liver and kidney failure is the result of inadequate protection. Have fun building, but be careful to look out for your health first. REgards Chris Gardiner At 11:58 PM 2/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >As I am gettin gready to begin building my KR2S I have been "setting up >shop." Since I live in Wisconsin (about an hour's drive from Oshkosh) a fair >portion of my building will have to be done indoors due to all of the snow >and ice in my garage. (Winter sucks!) > >My shop in the basement is about 20' x 12' and I'm wondering how much the >epoxy fumes are going to be a problem. I figured I can get one of those >squirrel-cage fans and blow most of the noctious gas out the window (I love >those bean burritos!). This should be sufficient for the wood work but when >your sloshing the large volumes (surface areas) of epoxy around when >glassing I'm not so sure. - Any thoughts. You all have a lot more >experience with this stuff than I do. > >Secondly; >Since I live so close to Oshkosh I have spent quite a few hours in the >Boeing Aeronautical Library at the EAA Center. An impressive place. More >than 8000 books, 60,000 magazines and something like 10,000 drawings and >plans, however, their resources on the KR aircraft is very limited. Like >nothing. Which is surprising for how popular it is. > >If anybody has old plans, drawings, contruction books etc. that they no >longer need the library would love to get them as donations. They might even >be tax deductable - you'd have to check with them. I know that for big >donations they work some kind of deal with you (life memberships etc.) The >folks that work there are also happy to provide members with technical >information. Its all part of your membership. > >(Rereading this it kinda sounds like a commercial - I went into the wrong >line of work.) They have helped me out a lot - so this is the least that I >can do. You can contact them at (920) 426-4848 if you have anything you >wouldn't mind donating. > >Dean > > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Regional Sales Manager................. Schlumberger Electricity Division...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR cgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:31:20 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank In a message dated 98-02-15 22:44:05 EST, you write: << As far as fiberglass tanks go,...I think they are just like anything else, if built and used properly there are no problems. 3,000 LongEZs cant be wrong! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Has anyone tried building the tanks using T-88? Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:27:41 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank At 12:31 AM 2/16/98 EST, you wrote: > Has anyone tried building the tanks using T-88? > > Jim Hayward > I guess you could try it but I cant imagine the cloth would wetout that well with t-88. Aeropoxy or EZ-poxy works just fine as long as you don't plan on using autofuel. If you want to use autofuel then learn how to use vinylester resins. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:31:08 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank Hi All, T-88 is a structural adhesive for bonding items together. That is wood to wood or metal to wood. It was not intended to be used for glassing cloth. Hope this helps! VBRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: JEHayward@aol.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 15 February, 1998 21:34 Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank >In a message dated 98-02-15 22:44:05 EST, you write: > ><< As far as fiberglass tanks go,...I think they are just like anything else, > if built and used properly there are no problems. 3,000 LongEZs cant be >wrong! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims >> > > Has anyone tried building the tanks using T-88? > > Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:05:50 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: KR Weight KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Tom, > > You said in your earlier post that you would not use Imron paint but instead > go with an acrylic enamel. I have not figured paint weight into my total > empty weight yet because I don't know what I am going to use yet. What do you > think the Imron paint added to your total weight and how much could I save > with an acrylic enamel? > > By the way, I'm sure it does beat the hell out of poking around in a spam can > and your numbers look good. I like that 1200FPM thru 3000ft. I'm envious. > > Thanks > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ I did all the finish work on the plane up to spraying the final paint. I used a PPG primer that is compatible with their enamel or their polyurethane. I figured I would decide at the last minute. I had a friend of a friend who is a professional painter, has a nice booth and all the equiptment. He said he would spray the whole plane with whatever I wanted for $300.00. When I got their with the plane, he said that he had never sprayed any PPG products, but was very good at spraying Imron, and had sprayed a lot of it. So... I decided I had better use Imron. I called the paint rep. to ask about compatibility with the PPG primer, and he said it would be no problen if I sprayed a sealer coat first. (I forget the product's name and number.) When I went to pick up the paint, I started to feel like maybe I made a mistake. The sealer alone was quite heavy- 2 gallons of it! Another thing- this is a no sand sealer. You spray your finish coat on top of it without sanding first. Unfortunately, the sealer added a little bit of texture to the final finish. Most of the bad spots were removed later with many hours of wet sanding and rubbing out. But that's another story. The moral- figure out what you want and stick with it. Dont let someone else tell you what you want. Also- I would spray the final finish myself. Afterwards, I sprayed my brother's van, and it came out great! I am not even going to mention the price of Imron these days. One figure I forgot to mention yesterday- Stall speed at 800lbs and a fairly foreward CG- 40 MPH indicated, and it's a real non-event. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #41 ****************************