From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:43 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #42 krnet-l-digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 042 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 04:05:01 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: CD-ROM update Hello, Netters Just a note to everyone who indicated interest in the Archive CD-ROM, AKA Traveling Resource Library- I am awaiting arrival of the Newsletters from Dana for scanning, and also awaiting arrival of the KRNet archives on CD from my good buddy up in Hillsboro. I have Adobe Acrobat 3.0.1 ready to convert the files to .pfd format, and will either imbed Reader onto each CD-ROM, or else let everybody get their own Reader in their preferred version (Win 3.X, Win 95, Mac, Unix, but no DOS available...). It's free, and of course allows search on keywords, etc. I have been extremely busy at work, but this is play so it keeps me mellowed out. As soon as it starts coming together, I'll send out a query to everybody who expressed interest; I will need postal mailing addresses at that time. And, yes, if you posted either to the Net or to me directly, I have your post in my file... I haven't forgotten you! And hey- go out to the shop and check your WAFs, if you haven't already done so. Give them the old Arnold Schwarzenegger test, like Mike did. Don't be WAFfling on this issue! ;o) Apologies to Robert Covington... Regards, Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:26:29 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Sun & Fun! It's time for that reminder again. Sun & Fun KR Group Rates at the Tampa Fairgrounds Budgetel 813 626-0885. Ask for the manager, Bob Seguin and tell him you are calling for the KR Group Rate, it's $59.95 per night. A very good deal for the Sun & Fun. If anyone wants to spend some time in the Ground Tower look me up (no pun intended) at the Budgetel, not at the Tower itself, you won't be able to get too it. It's also a great place to watch the daily airshows from and then you can help launch everybody afterwards, see there's a catch, you have to work. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:43:49 +0200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: RE: CD-ROM update Please put my name on said list. I'm sure we can work somthing for this side of the pond. Kobus de Wet - -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga [SMTP:taildrags@hotmail.com] Sent: 16 February, 1998 14:05 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: KR: CD-ROM update Hello, Netters Just a note to everyone who indicated interest in the Archive CD-ROM, AKA Traveling Resource Library- I am awaiting arrival of the Newsletters from Dana for scanning, and also awaiting arrival of the KRNet archives on CD from my good buddy up in Hillsboro. I have Adobe Acrobat 3.0.1 ready to convert the files to .pfd format, and will either imbed Reader onto each CD-ROM, or else let everybody get their own Reader in their preferred version (Win 3.X, Win 95, Mac, Unix, but no DOS available...). It's free, and of course allows search on keywords, etc. I have been extremely busy at work, but this is play so it keeps me mellowed out. As soon as it starts coming together, I'll send out a query to everybody who expressed interest; I will need postal mailing addresses at that time. And, yes, if you posted either to the Net or to me directly, I have your post in my file... I haven't forgotten you! And hey- go out to the shop and check your WAFs, if you haven't already done so. Give them the old Arnold Schwarzenegger test, like Mike did. Don't be WAFfling on this issue! ;o) Apologies to Robert Covington... Regards, Oscar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 98 19:29:37 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: CD - Rom doing rounds Hi All Please put my name down on the list. I think there are a few South Africans that would like the info too. Rob Matthews P.O. Box 157 Mtunzini Natal 3867 South Africa Many Thanks - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 17:32:00 GMT From: "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" Subject: KR: John Rontz's spreadsheets Does anyone on the list know if and where these spreadsheets can be downloaded please? Thanks Richard Mole R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:44:41 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: John Rontz's spreadsheets Richard, I just found the Roncz spreadsheets on the web at ftp://ftp.Xmission.com/pub/users/m/markm/roncz/ I put a zip file of them on my server for you. You can ftp them just like the last file you got, simply get roncz.zip or you can get them directly from the above ftp address. Steve On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, R.H.Mole -Richard Mole wrote: > > Does anyone on the list know if and where these spreadsheets can be > downloaded please? > > Thanks > > Richard Mole > R.H.Mole@open.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:14:14 -0800 From: tomstokes1@juno.com (Wayland T. Stokes) Subject: KR: Re: CD-ROM update Oscar Please put my name on said list. Tom Stokes 8443 Sopwith Blvd Reno, NV 89506-2165 >-----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga [SMTP:taildrags@hotmail.com] >Sent: 16 February, 1998 14:05 >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: CD-ROM update > >Hello, Netters > >Just a note to everyone who indicated interest in the Archive CD-ROM, >AKA Traveling Resource Library- > >I am awaiting arrival of the Newsletters from Dana for scanning, and >also awaiting arrival of the KRNet archives on CD from my good buddy >up >in Hillsboro. I have Adobe Acrobat 3.0.1 ready to convert the files >to >.pfd format, and will either imbed Reader onto each CD-ROM, or else >let >everybody get their own Reader in their preferred version (Win 3.X, >Win >95, Mac, Unix, but no DOS available...). It's free, and of course >allows search on keywords, etc. > >I have been extremely busy at work, but this is play so it keeps me >mellowed out. As soon as it starts coming together, I'll send out a >query to everybody who expressed interest; I will need postal mailing >addresses at that time. And, yes, if you posted either to the Net or >to >me directly, I have your post in my file... I haven't forgotten you! > >And hey- go out to the shop and check your WAFs, if you haven't >already >done so. Give them the old Arnold Schwarzenegger test, like Mike did. > >Don't be WAFfling on this issue! ;o) Apologies to Robert Covington... > >Regards, > >Oscar > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT >M>)\^(BT/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` >M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ >MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` >M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&MR;F5T+6Q =&5L97!OM5% `:W)N970M;$!T96QE<&]R="YC;VT``!X``C !````!0```%--5% ````` >M'@`#, $````5````:W)N970M;$!T96QE<&]R="YC;VT``````P`5# $````# >M`/X/!@```!X``3 !````%P```"=KM"S !````&@```%--5% Z2U).150M3$!414Q%4$]25"Y#3TT````#```Y```` >M``L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````5````:W)N970M;$!T96QE<&]R="YC;VT````` >M`@'W7P$```!'`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9G6X`W0$/5 (`````:W)N970M;$!T >M96QE<&]R="YC;VT`4TU44 !KM```#`/]?``````(!]@\!````! ````````()60$$@ $`$@```%)%.B!#1"U2 >M3TT@=7!D871E`#8%`06 `P`.````S@<"`! `$0`K`#$``0!5`0$@@ ,`#@`` >M`,X'`@`0`!$`*@`3``$`-@$!"8 !`"$````P,49#-C!$,T8R039$,3$Q.3@Y >M-30T-#4U,S4T,# P, #.!@$#D 8`Q @``"$````+``(``0````L`(P`````` >M`P`F```````+`"D```````,`+@```````P`V``````! `#D`H+YWK/$ZO0$> >M`' ``0```!(```!213H@0T0M4D]-('5P9&%T90````(!<0`!````%@````&] >M.O&L(]-@_ *F\A'1F)5$15-4`````!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`? >M# $````6````:F9D97=E=$!I;G1E:V]M+F-O+GIA`````P`&$'F50!T#``<0 >ME 0``!X`"! !````90```%!,14%315!55$U93D%-14].4T%)1$Q)4U1)35-5 >M4D5714-!3E=/4DM33TU42$E.1T9/4E1(25-3241%3T942$503TY$2T]"55-$ >M15=%5"TM+2TM3U))1TE.04Q-15-304=%+2T``````@$)$ $```"I!0``I04` >M`"0(``!,6D9U_&9 ^W<`"@$#`?<@`J0#XP(`8X)H"L!S970P( <3AP*#`% . >M]G!R<3(/]B9]"H (R" ["6\R-68U`H *@75C`% +`V,#`$$+8&YG,3 S,T$+ >MIB!0;&5A#[ @!'!U!4!M>2!N824'@" "("!S"W!D( )L! !T+B!))VU7%[ ( >M SF8:@1:Q >M`B!D+@JB"H1A"H!+;V)U!" ;`5>?#\ ;^A4!`M$0HC$V&_@S"S 8$#,V`4 1 >M0&]TJP60!4 M())/!1!G"X#/!T %T >0%\!G92"3&_8?("0?\0L3("0"`&DM >M,8PT- % &! Q.# !0*,,T"0S8B!&`V$Z#(.:8@_@3P3P"L%:=0,``&=A(%M3 >M3510)CH!D ,09'(AL'- +F@@, # `Q N!:!M77\;]25@!F ","7''M E<&5( >M8G)U"L!Y+"HP.80Y."HP-#HP-2CG-%1O)<=K!* /P"UL?D @0!9P&Z `("B2 >M*.AU#&)J(%$EQTM2.B `0T0M4D]-('7X<&1A($ B/R-*'[054K W,3M`T@M@'\)`"KP!\ "0 20#T <"4HW'. %0"<`;B Q&H!O('1E=@20>0(@&.$H >M("#Y"X!D:1DP($ 7\ N -0&_!Y %0 N &U,'$ ]P:3<`QR_U*O ;]$%+02PP >M)]"W-P`8$!HA4@>0"&%C%K"\3&DJD"K!(B<<$DDV0.D8D&%W"W!T&A(*P 40 >M[G8A01LU!\%S%G T\QI >0-A($0`<"<`&E(F86[_`P`5<"KP`' 7\!OT!T 9 >MP/\]OQLF+\ TT3Y!.8,$(!>1IS `/_07$6=O!' @'-"\9&07(#!P.E4X\4@# >M$-]", ;@`V 84!A@( ^ .;%\060MP06@;CMP =P2) 7\#N@2M3F'^=P.@3A4X]%'1$4 !$ 20G0EQ(#M\-9-`- J\%4#`'@J\!S0]P5 -G! 0$\%\#L@)Y$!H)46<"Y7T"E'PG0G/^+_ >M">!!9!LQ!: (P%H Y<1>":V5YV1EQ9',J\ _ 8QOK1_5G >M2) )\#;@>'0)< > ;/\7(!S1%R!)$1ER5G0:DQJQ_PM1%R!"04*@6S$MH 0@ >M%V'_&_1=\5I1.#$(8!A!#_ :P;]%T .@%I!@4A@P"L!T!"#_**$:$C; 46%- >M<2KP&'!-$=\/L%D"%N$G`!OT<0I0*M!_-K=1$S>"7:!30000.#D[_T?A3/,M >M$#@Q&Z!C40,@*%+_&A)!Q48P9],$($D1&?!KDN\'<6)"&\ J\'D'D"KP!I#_ >M;, (8&F3.#%-13;!/P0%0/\:8DMF%V$WX EP(&!>$&2Q_T@$;5%3(6FQ..(7 >M$4KR5]'Y1^5N)P5 &E%%P#3Q`Z"];5$A&_IL@4@`6U M1;'[96-N=7,H($: >M08(/< 60XQF@<2-7049L^'+&!T"_2:0;]$AP-U$9P$?!1SFB_QMA&) ;8@;P >M%_ '$#9P>U$F4P]P0H!R>@GP96?_(< :<3BQ*O 8$%M !=!]4N\WX!O01] ; >M]$0"(',12)$]=Y%F.U,7D5]E&+!E(?%'T#MO*0_P&Z )`"$0WTLD" !(D$J! >M"%!V&A$VP/YN5]$;^CN@)O!;DAOZ)E-]&_I?AA^'+X@_B& ;]$?U1"%9<3)0 >M/G(@0"KP)8"Y"> @12A27H(5`W4#(()H`D!P.B\O=XS ?BXH*1XSC" S]1OT >M$@$``8\P`````P`0$ `````#`!$0``````,`@!#_____0 `',(#_OG;Q.KT! >M0 `(,(#_OG;Q.KT!"P`D@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````X4````````# >M`"6 "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0````````,`)H (( 8``````, ` >M``````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`G@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````5(4` >M``$````$````."XP``,`*( (( 8``````, ```````!&``````&%```````` >M"P`I@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`"J "" &``````# >M````````1@`````1A0````````,`*X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!B% >M````````'@`L@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````!```````` >M`!X`+8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````````>`"Z >M"" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````% >5````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``)57 >` >end > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:33:08 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Re:I have a chute > The idea is that upon deployment the chute raises the nose of the plane >helping to slow the plane as the chute fully opens. The plane hits the ground >at approx. 500 ft. per min.(std. cond.??) with a tail low attitude. The >splintering spruce helps to absorb some of the impact(I Hope!!) > >Bill Huntley (with plane tickets in hand for Sun-N-Fun) >Green Bay, WI. >KR2S At that point, like in the Bugs Bunny cartoons, you should just hop out of the plane before impact, off to one side. You will be ok then while the plane smacks into the ground. I don't know what velocity you will have to jump up and over though. ;) Too bad that won't work. At what descent speed would your wood (and butt) escape damage for sure though? 300 FPM? Robert Covington t88@primenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:30:45 EST From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Personal Minimums Checklist I was going through some files today and came across a Personal Minimums Checklist I picked up at Oshkosh a couple of years ago. With "good" flying weather approaching most of us, I thought it might be useful to folks to use this checklist to re-evaluate their proficiency and currency, and set some limits for themselves early in the season. I typed it up and posted it on my web page in Word 2.0 format for anyone who might be interested. Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:37:29 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-02-15 22:44:05 EST, you write: > > << As far as fiberglass tanks go,...I think they are just like anything else, > if built and used properly there are no problems. 3,000 LongEZs cant be > wrong! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims >> > > Has anyone tried building the tanks using T-88? > > Jim Hayward Does anybody know anyone who makes an aluminum fuel tank for the KR's? - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:58:29 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re:I have a chute Robert Covington wrote: > > > The idea is that upon deployment the chute raises the nose of the plane > >helping to slow the plane as the chute fully opens. The plane hits the ground > >at approx. 500 ft. per min.(std. cond.??) with a tail low attitude. The > >splintering spruce helps to absorb some of the impact(I Hope!!) > >Bill Huntley (with plane tickets in hand for Sun-N-Fun) > > At what descent speed would your wood (and butt) escape damage for sure > though? 300 FPM? > > Robert Covington 500 ft/min doesn't sound too bad. If memory serves, Navy jets hit a carrier at 600 ft/min downward. The certificated package for a 150/152 lists a 21 ft/sec or 1260 ft/min landing speed, which they describe as "like jumping from a seven foot height". - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:38:59 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Re:I have a chute At 21:58 2/16/98 -0500, Don Read wrote: >... The certificated package for a 150/152 >lists a 21 ft/sec or 1260 ft/min landing speed, which they describe as >"like jumping from a seven foot height". >-- >Don Reid > This is a surprisingly high number and probably reflects favorably on Wittman's robust design idea. There are more than a few light planes designed to meet a vertical speed of less than 12 ft/sec. of which I suppose the Taylor Monoplane was one. Requirement was given as V = 5 + 0.06Vs (mph) ft/sec. Where V is vertical speed ft/sec Vs stall speed mph Sincerely brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:18:04 -0600 From: "Pdrdean" Subject: KR: CD-ROM Oscar, Please add me to your ever-growing CD-ROM List. Dean R. Collette, MD 12460 W. Crawford Dr. New Berlin, WI 53151 drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:09:10 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Empty Weight & Starters >>Isnt this weight without starter, alternator, electrical system, >>battery, etc.? >> >>Tom Crawford > >Yes but there have been a few built at or under this weight with starter, >battery etc. Actually I have heard of a few being built with electrics in >the 480 pound range! Amazing isn't it? >Even though I am building a slightly enlarged KR I am still shooting for an >empty weight in the 600 pound range. I do not want a 700+ pound empty weigh >KR so I do not plan to have all those whistles and bells installed either. >Only minimal instruments, no starter, and a hand held radio. I will be >running one of those little alternators that mounts in the vacuum boss to >power my transponder and keep a small battery charged for the hand held. >Depending on the alternator output I may install one strobe and nav lights >but I doubt it. Actually, your description sounds as though you could hit the 500 pound range instead of the 600. Where do you expect all the extra weight to come from? People sometimes act as though the point of having an electrical system is SO YOU CAN HAVE a starter, but I also don't see the point of it, especially on engines that turn the reverse of "normal," so you can stand in front of the wing on the side of the canopy that opens and pull the blade down to hand- prop. I've been toying with buying the standard Diehl accessory case and Great Plains alternator but turning a flywheel wheel down so it's no bigger than the alternator rotor needs. Then you could use a junker flywheel with broken teeth (probably a freebie), and also get rid of that big whirling weight on the wrong end of the crankshaft from the prop, which I've often wondered could lead to torsional vibration. Finally, the battery could be tiny, but you could still run quite a few "whistles and bells" like a transponder and a secondary ignition. Maybe I've spent too many years hanging out with classic motorcycles, most of which have electrical systems without starters and save about 25 pounds that way. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:53:41 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Empty Weight & Starters At 11:09 PM 2/16/98 EST, you wrote: >Actually, your description sounds as though you could hit the 500 pound range instead of the 600. Where do you expect all the extra weight to come from? > > Well my landing gear is about 5 pounds more than Dan Diehls, also my engine weighs 235 pounds (a vw without a starter weighs about 165), and the fact my KR is a little bigger than normal all adds up in the end. 500 pound range would be nice but my engine and fuselage alone weighs 460 pounds! Add another 100 pounds for wings and another 100 pounds for misc. stuff and we are siting at 660. I think I can make it under 700 but 600 might be tuff! Sure would be nice! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:08:21 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Progress and Chinokosh Well another 15 hours on the KR this weekend! Although one day was spent moving stuff out of my side of the hanger into the storage area (LongEZ fuselage, and misc. stuff), I did manage to layup a rain/wind seal around the door. I also finished up with the glass work on the elevator (those V shaped fairings on the inboard edges). Today I installed some of the brackets to help support the weight of the Lycoming. I also tried to open my canopy door because the seal (lip) had been curing for almost 24 hours. It wouldn't come open! Scary! I ended up crawling through the opening in the front of my KR then under the instrument panel then into the seats. A friend was watching and said it looked like the airplane swallowed me whole! Anyway once inside I was able to push the door open, talk about a nice fit! I used two layers of duct tape on the fuselage so there should be a nice little gap between the lip and the fuselage for some silicone sealant. Aint no rain or wind getting in this door! Chinokosh is coming up quick! I plan to stock the fridge with coke and 7 up, diet unless I hear any request. I talked to Larry and Bruce and it sounded like they may taxi over so people can check out their KRs. There could be others flying in I am not sure. If any of you are still on the fence and have not decided on a plane yet I may be able to get you a ride in a Dragonfly, that is if Brad is around. He likes to give rides and can take fairly large guys up (6 foot 220 pounders). One thing neat about the Dragonfly is you can add weight and the CG pretty much stays in one place. Also there is a Dragonfly for sale if you decide you really like it! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:36:53 -0500 (EST) From: jeroffey@tir.com (jeroffey) Subject: KR: Epoxy toxisity I'll just throw this out to anyone who might be using West System Epoxys. Any trouble with skin reaction or headache while using these products? John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:43:34 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: plastic header tank In a message dated 98-02-15 22:44:05 EST, you write: >>Plastic tanks are for lawnmowers. Several people have perished due to >>failures in plastic tanks. >>> > >Actually all the new cars utilize plastic tanks, are you talking plastic of >fiberglass tanks? > >If I could find someone to make me plastic (the kind used in autos) tanks to >fit in my wings I would be stoked! Seems the plastic (ABS or PVC I forget) >tanks are the only ones that can withstand the crap they put in autofuel >these days. > >As far as fiberglass tanks go,...I think they are just like anything else, >if built and used properly there are no problems. 3,000 LongEZs cant be >wrong! You may be able to find something off-the-shelf that would work. I mentioned once on this list that I saw a plastic replacement for the Jeep tank in the JC Whitney catalog that was 1/4" thick and supposed to be almost indestructible. Such tanks for other sports-utility vehicles must also be available and some off-road motorcycles also use plastic tanks with proven reliability records. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't make a plastic tank for VW dune buggies that would be about right. Any VW (car) nuts on this list? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:43:40 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: URGENT I think! >>Now you have me starting to worry. My WAF's had a shiny- almost chrome >>like finish. I did not try to bend them tho. Now what? >> >>Tom Crawford >>tomc@afn.org > >How long ago did you buy them? I am sure RR has records that show who >purchased these units and will be calling you if you are one of the unlucky >few. I suppose as a lawyer I tend to look on the doomsday side of things, but that's one reason companies keep lawyers around. I think it would be crazy to trust ANYBODY'S records for a situation like this because we have no idea how many bad wing-attach fittings are out there or where they came from. This particular batch of defective fittings was found because one guy happened to have fittings on his plane from several different sources, got suspicious because these didn't look like the rest, then tried to bend them. We have no idea how many prior batchs of inadequate fittings were bought and sold by RR or by other vendors in the past or how many non-suspicious buyers put them on planes. (And they may even perform OK if they're are not subjected to high G's or loads, so bad fittings could sit on a plane for years). There may also be batches sold in the past that are defective but not quite as defective as this batch, so they're too hard to bend by hand. In short, this is a disaster waiting to happen, and Rand-Robinson is extremely lucky it was not discovered the normal way (i.e. the NTSB investigation after a crash). If these were certified planes, they'd treat this just like the Lycoming con-rod bolt fiasco: an emergency AD would require every KR owner to remove the wings and test his fittings. You probably couldn't bend ANY installed fittings with your hands alone because there's not enough sticking out to get a good grip, but the force required to bend the end of a defective fitting with a (padded) wrench would still be much lower than for the good fittings. If you're at the stage where you're glassing the wing and haven't cut it apart yet, you can do this test later, but I wouldn't not do it. Maybe some of the engineers on this list could suggest how much torque it would take to bend the end of an installed 4130 fitting, and a test procedure could be set up. I'd envision putting a predetermined torque on the fitting with a crowfoot socket on a torque wrench, which would be easy enough for any owner to do, or have an A&P do for him, with a logbook endorsement afterwards if you ever want to sell the plane. Obviously, the torque would be chosen to bend only the bad fittings and be nondestructive to the good ones. I don't know if Jeanette reads this list, but if I were at RR, the responsible thing would be to set up the protocols for a test of this kind, publicize it in the Newsletter, and offer a small reimbursement for doing the test to everyone who bought fittings from RR. Otherwise, the company may go down the tubes if somebody's wings come off, from the publicity if not the lawsuits. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:45:07 -0800 From: Alessandro Pecorara Subject: Re: KR: Re: SAX 86 engine Bob Vermeulen wrote: > > What models of FIAT is the SAX 86 found in and do you know if they are > imported to the U.S.? > It's know as Fiat FIRE (Full Integrated Robot Engineered): 1200 cc displacement, four cylinder in-line, water cooled, electronic single ignition. I don't know about export situation: you could write to the builder: JEOF s.r.l. Via Valli di Pontecasale, 36 35020 Candiana (PD), Italy Alessandro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:50:42 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Empty Weight & Starters According to me your weight calculation is pretty good at 600lbs. My 2s ZK-CSR is now 15years old and weighs 639lbs. Incidently in 1984 it weighed 630lbs. We run a standard geared starter. Look foward to reading the posts every night Regards........Dave David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz - ---------- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: Empty Weight & Starters > Date: Tuesday, 17 February 1998 18:53 > > At 11:09 PM 2/16/98 EST, you wrote: > >Actually, your description sounds as though you could hit the 500 pound > range instead of the 600. Where do you expect all the extra weight to come > from? > > > > > > Well my landing gear is about 5 pounds more than Dan Diehls, also my engine > weighs 235 pounds (a vw without a starter weighs about 165), and the fact my > KR is a little bigger than normal all adds up in the end. 500 pound range > would be nice but my engine and fuselage alone weighs 460 pounds! Add > another 100 pounds for wings and another 100 pounds for misc. stuff and we > are siting at 660. I think I can make it under 700 but 600 might be tuff! > Sure would be nice! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Building outer wings now > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 05:22:15 EST From: KenikaS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: CD-ROM Oscar, Please add me to the list for the Traveling Resource Library CD. Thanks, Dennis Steed 1890 E. Millbrook Rd. Salt Lake City, UT 84106 kenikas@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:38:00 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity I have been using West Systems epoxy for five or six years now on radio control models. I have gone through about four or five gallens with no apparent problems. THe first three gallens was used with no extra care taken, i.e. would get my hands covered with epoxy in the layup process and would clean it off with acitone. Probably the worst possible scenario. THen I started getting interrested in full size planes and found out about epoxy sensitivity. Now I use rubber gloves and a respirator for long layups. I haven't experienced any headache problems and have no indications of a pending sensitivity problem. I just hope that I haven't blown it and will be able to construct my KR without coming down with any sensitivity problems. I sure like all of the handling characteristics of West System epoxy and plan to use it exclusively on my KR. THe wind tunnel models are all made with West Systems and the fast hardener. I get fully cured layups within 24 hours with temperatures at 68 degrees F during the day and 65 degrees F at night. All layups will pass the scratch test after less than 24 hours. On top of all of this it sands beautifully. Steve Eberhart newtech@newtech.com http://www.newtech.com/nlf On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, jeroffey wrote: > I'll just throw this out to anyone who might be using West System Epoxys. > Any trouble with skin reaction or headache while using these products? > John Roffey > jeroffey@tir.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:42:58 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: exhaust system tape Just as a data point on the exhaust tape thing, Jim Hill had his wrapped with tape at one time. What convinced him that it was a bad idea was when the pipe developed a leak thru a crack which blasted his wiring harness with hot gas, melting the insulation and shorting out his tachometer lead, which killed his ignition. Fortunately, this was while taxiing, and he also has a mag, but you get the message. He thinks that if the exhaust were only painted white he'd have noticed the crack much earlier. The tape probably muffled the exhaust leak too. Mark Langford langford@hiwaay.net kr2s project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:26:38 -0500 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Alum tank for $80 (was plastic header tank) > You may be able to find something off-the-shelf that would work. I mentioned > once on this list that I saw a plastic replacement for the Jeep tank in the JC > Whitney catalog that was 1/4" thick and supposed to be almost indestructible. > Such tanks for other sports-utility vehicles must also be available and some > off-road motorcycles also use plastic tanks with proven reliability records. > In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't make a plastic tank for VW > dune buggies that would be about right. Any VW (car) nuts on this list? > > Mike Taglieri Hi Mike! Get a copy of Hot VW magazine and you'll see several sources for beautifully polished, aluminum dune buggy tanks 10"diameter x 30"L , 10 gallon capacity, for the low price of 79.95. I'm very tempted, but there's no sump, and the filler neck is on the end on top rather than in the middle on top. My main concern is that a long tank like that would allow no fuel draw in a banked turn. Maybe G-forces would keep the fuel level though. Anyone have any ideas for this tank? I wouldn't use a plastic (or fiberglass) tank, because the position of the tank is directly over my body, in the cockpit. Plastic tanks are ok if the dripping fuel comes out on the ground at the back of a car, but this is my body at issue. If I survive a hard landing only to be covered in gasoline, what good is it? I have a beautiful RR fiberglass tank for sale or if anyone's interested in trading for the lower half of a vw cowling, e-mail me. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:10:33 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity At 07:38 AM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > >I have been using West Systems epoxy for five or six years now on radio >control models. I have gone through about four or five gallens with no >apparent problems.>>>> I know I have brought this up before but you guys who want to use West Systems on your KR should make sure its OK. None of the designers of the true composite planes (foam and glass) allow the use of West Systems for anything that's structural only for filler (micro). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:47:25 -0800 From: "Gary Lee" Subject: KR: CD Oscar; Put me on the list for the CD: Gary Lee 3490 Cantelow Rd. Vacaville, Ca. 95688 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:37:32 -0600 (CST) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Micheal Mims wrote: > At 07:38 AM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > > > >I have been using West Systems epoxy for five or six years now on radio > >control models. I have gone through about four or five gallens with no > >apparent problems.>>>> > > I know I have brought this up before but you guys who want to use West > Systems on your KR should make sure its OK. None of the designers of the > true composite planes (foam and glass) allow the use of West Systems for > anything that's structural only for filler (micro). Mike is right, I spoke out of turn when I said that I was going to use West Systems for all work on my KR. Will dig through all of the Canard Pusher news letters and will use that as my guide line. Probably will err on the conservative side and use Pro Set from Goughen (SP?). With so little of the KR composite work actually being structural I wonder if it really matters? If it did, we wouldn't have so much spruce in the wings and tail would we? Steve Eberhart > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Building outer wings now > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Fax 714.856.9417 > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:38:36 -0500 From: "Tim Stone" Subject: KR: Re: exhaust system tape snip Jim Hill had his wrapped>with tape at one time snip He thinks that if the exhaust >were only painted white he'd have noticed the crack much earlier. The tape >probably muffled the exhaust leak too. > >Mark Langford >langford@hiwaay.net >kr2s project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > Instead of the tape, one might give thermal coating a try. According to the race performance segment it has very good chemical & corrosion resistance and possesses excellent thermal barrier characteristics, providing a dramatic reduction in radiated heat. This means reduced under-hood temperatures, accelerated exhaust gas velocity and a longer life expectancy for the entire exhaust system. As it is only a coating, any cracks or such would still become visible. http://www.performancecoatings.com/ There are two other outfits I'm aware of HPC (high performance coatings) and MICROCOAT, couldn't find their url's at the moment. Tim S. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #42 ****************************