From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 4:13 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #43 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 043 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:43:05 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity At 02:37 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >With so little of the KR composite work actually being structural I >wonder if it really matters? If it did, we wouldn't have so much spruce >in the wings and tail would we? > >Steve Eberhart Yea that's something I have thought about too, after working with the resin from RR I know West Systems have to be just as good if no better. Someone could call and ask RR I guess! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:53:37 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars Hey List, As near as I can tell, I've got a problem with my main spar (and probably my secondary spar) and the horizontal stab spar not being square with the firewall. According to my calculations of 1/16" difference at the inside corners of the firewall to the main spar at each fuselage side, I'm out of plane about 1/2" from one wing tip to the other. The horizontal spar is off about 5/8" tip to tip. In other words, one wing tip will be more forward than the other one in reference to the firewall. My question concerns how to correct this. I'm thinking of sanding the aft vertical member face of one station and the fwd vertical member face of the other station where the spar goes thru the fuselage and shim accordingly. I'm a bit concerned about reducing the strength of the vertical member at the given station and am wondering if there's a better way. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:13:06 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity At 01:43 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: <> OK So I just called RR, she said that she will be selling Aeropoxy instead of the Rand Epoxy in the future. Aeropoxy is the recommended resin for all fiberglass construction on the KR series. She said no to West Systems for fiberglass work but OK to use on wood (where your laying up a layer of glass over the plywood). She also said to use a sloshing compound in your tanks if they are constructed with Aeropoxy and highly recommends an aluminum tank if you are planning on autofuel. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:17:31 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars At 04:53 PM 2/17/98 EST, you wrote: > My question concerns how to correct this. I'm thinking of >sanding the aft vertical member face of one station and the >fwd vertical member face of the other station where the spar >goes thru the fuselage and shim accordingly. I'm a bit >concerned about reducing the strength of the vertical member >at the given station and am wondering if there's a better way. > >Jim Hayward > Well for what its worth that is what I did. I didn't have to remove very much material but with the plywood triangle pieces I don't think it matters that much anyway (well as long as you don't sand half way through the vertical members!) I forgot to ask, are you building a KR2 or an S? The reason I ask is I don't think the plywood triangles are on the KR2 plans. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:46:46 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity In a message dated 98-02-17 17:14:52 EST, you write: << She also said to use a sloshing compound in your tanks if they are constructed with Aeropoxy and highly recommends an aluminum tank if you are planning on autofuel. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> Am I remembering wrong.... I thought vinyl ester resins took care of that problem? That's why I was wondering about T-88 for them. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:00:36 EST From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: AOL Problems Is anyone else using AOL having problems receiving the Digest? It appears that if someone sends a post with a winmail.dat file attached, it kicks AOL and won't let the digest file be attached to the distribution message that is sent. I know, I know, I should get a REAL ISP, but that's not an option right now. If you're sending posts that contain winmail.dat files, is there a way you can turn that feature off? Thanks for your help! Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:50:02 EST From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars In a message dated 98-02-17 17:21:10 EST, you write: << I'm a bit >concerned about reducing the strength of the vertical member >at the given station and am wondering if there's a better way. > >Jim Hayward > I forgot to ask, are you building a KR2 or an S? The reason I ask is I don't think the plywood triangles are on the KR2 plans. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims >> I've got the 2-S but am not doing a lot right now. I need to get a hangar and Challanger II built so I can fly. THEN I should be able to continue on with the 2-S. We lost our FBO here and I have to drive about an hour to rent now.... not a happy camper! Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:21:26 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity At 05:46 PM 2/17/98 EST, you wrote: > Am I remembering wrong.... I thought vinyl ester resins took care of >that > problem? That's why I was wondering about T-88 for them. > > Jim Hayward > Aeropoxy is not vinylester. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:31:53 From: Austin Clark Subject: KR: Epoxy Physical Data At 14:13 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 01:43 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: ><> > >OK So I just called RR, she said that she will be selling Aeropoxy instead >of the Rand Epoxy in the future. Aeropoxy is the recommended resin for all >fiberglass construction on the KR series. She said no to West Systems for >fiberglass work but OK to use on wood (where your laying up a layer of glass >over the plywood). She also said to use a sloshing compound in your tanks >if they are constructed with Aeropoxy and highly recommends an aluminum tank >if you are planning on autofuel. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > > Mike, Did RR give a reason not to use West Systems? With the on-going discussion about the WAF's, I am not sure I trust their judgement on the subject of construction materials. I plan to use West Systems extensively in my project and have finished the layups for the horizontal stabilizer and elevator with it. There is a physical properties table of West Systems Resin/Hardener at http://www.concentric.net/~westsys/physical.shtml I would like to compare it to other epoxys if anyone knows where to find the info. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS http://www.datasync.com/~itac/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:37:04 EST From: Willard561@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: exhaust system tape I have also heard of TOXIC fumes from the exhaust wraps, 1 BD5 crash blamed on it Bill Higdon willard561@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:16:09 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy Physical Data At 07:31 PM 2/17/98, you wrote: >Did RR give a reason not to use West Systems? With the on-going discussion about the WAF's, I am not sure I trust their judgement on the subject of construction materials. >>> No she did not say why but she has a composite expert (could be the people making her wings). If you have a AS&S catalog the physical properties for EZPoxy and AeroPoxy are listed in it. I have heard from other designers on this subject and they say its too soft and or too flexible. You may want to continue your research. Call RR, Viking, or West to see what they say. We could sit here and second guess all day long and never come up with an accurate answer. I did notice that Aeropoxy is more flexible than some of the West resins listed on the web site. I don't know man! I am using EZPoxy so I haven't looked into it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:29:40 -0600 From: Kerry Miller Subject: KR: Scanning/CD's I've got a scanner and might be able to help scan a few of the newsletters if it would help! I don't have a CD-ROM burner (yet...) but I can scan them and put them into text files or something. Let me know if you guys need some help. Give me some time to reply, I'm on the digest list. My WAFs are the old ones, they aren't as pretty as the shiny ones but might make me live longer! Kerry Miller Royse City, TX Full owner of 1/2 of a KR-2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:57:51 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: URGENT I think! At 01:43 2/17/98 EST, you wrote: >... You probably couldn't bend ANY >installed fittings with your hands alone because there's not enough sticking >out to get a good grip, but the force required to bend the end of a defective >fitting with a (padded) wrench would still be much lower than for the good >fittings. > >Mike Taglieri > > Here's a starting point for a tester: talking of 1/8 inch thick material, if you can bend it in a vice so it takes a permanent set, then a 70,000 psi stress in the material surface layer takes a moment (or torque) of about 180 inch.lbs. for each inch of width you bend. brian whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:19:06 -0600 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: CD-ROM update Oscar, Put me on the list for a CD. Thanks. Rich McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction City, KS 66441 Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Hello, Netters > > Just a note to everyone who indicated interest in the Archive CD-ROM, > AKA Traveling Resource Library- > > I am awaiting arrival of the Newsletters from Dana for scanning, and > also awaiting arrival of the KRNet archives on CD from my good buddy up > in Hillsboro. I have Adobe Acrobat 3.0.1 ready to convert the files to > .pfd format, and will either imbed Reader onto each CD-ROM, or else let > everybody get their own Reader in their preferred version (Win 3.X, Win > 95, Mac, Unix, but no DOS available...). It's free, and of course > allows search on keywords, etc. > > I have been extremely busy at work, but this is play so it keeps me > mellowed out. As soon as it starts coming together, I'll send out a > query to everybody who expressed interest; I will need postal mailing > addresses at that time. And, yes, if you posted either to the Net or to > me directly, I have your post in my file... I haven't forgotten you! > > And hey- go out to the shop and check your WAFs, if you haven't already > done so. Give them the old Arnold Schwarzenegger test, like Mike did. > Don't be WAFfling on this issue! ;o) Apologies to Robert Covington... > > Regards, > > Oscar > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:53:01 -0500 From: Dennis Ambrose Subject: Re: KR: Cabin heat At 02:52 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:36 PM 12/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Regards Dennis (in Toronto) >> >> >Dennis your sending email from the future! Cool! > >(check out that date) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > Sorry: it's that time limited demo software stuff that runs out in 30 days. Have to reset the date or download again!! I screwed up somehow. Thanks Dennis. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:10:45 EST From: CLauter295@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: krnet-l-digest V2 #42 unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:42:46 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: 2180 Update. Quick update on the 2180 upgrade. I've ended up spending a little extra time in the cleaning of the case, especially the oil gallies (sp). I ended up using handgun phosphor bore brushes in the following calibers to lightly brush all the gallies; 40 cal., 22 cal., 25 cal., and 30 cal. rifle. They do a great job before you go in with pipe cleaners. Steve at Great Plains recommended taping the various oilers over and filling the gallies with "Gunk", leave it overnight and stop by the local car wash the next day. Sometime before tomorrow evening I'll decide if I'm going to drill out the through hole plug and run a brush from front to back, then tap and plug it. I'm taking the case to a guy on Weds. to weld a magnesium reinforcing plate behind the #3 cylinder, as this is a thin part of the case and is susceptible to cracking with anything over the 69mm crank. Thursday, the case gets hot dipped, gallies cleaned again, and hopefully Friday I start getting it reassembled. Guys remember, don't take one of these VW engines out of a car, stick it on your 2,3,4,5,6 year project and expect it to perform for you, that engine will try to get back to it's roots and put you down on a road somewhere. Do yourself a favor and check with Steve @ Great Plains, he'll give you some valuable advice. Mike quick question, did you just use a resin and flox/micro mix for your weather seal? If not, what. Thanks. Havin Fun!! (working on something besides resin) Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:42:55 GMT From: bbland@busprod.com (Brian Bland) Subject: Re: KR: Progress and Chinokosh On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:08:21 -0800, you wrote: >Chinokosh is coming up quick! I plan to stock the fridge with coke and = 7 >up, diet unless I hear any request. I talked to Larry and Bruce and it >sounded like they may taxi over so people can check out their KRs. = There >could be others flying in I am not sure. If any of you are still on the >fence and have not decided on a plane yet I may be able to get you a = ride in >a Dragonfly, that is if Brad is around. He likes to give rides and can = take >fairly large guys up (6 foot 220 pounders). One thing neat about the >Dragonfly is you can add weight and the CG pretty much stays in one = place. >Also there is a Dragonfly for sale if you decide you really like it! = :o) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now Any chance of getting a ride if I have already decided what to build? :) I still like the Dragonfly and it is still on my list of future airplanes to build. Well anyway, I look forward to Chinokosh. Coming all the way from Oklahoma just to get a look at Mike's KR. Can't wait to see the people again that I have already met and to put some faces with any others that will be there. Brian J. Bland, PP, A&P Claremore, OK Building stretched and widened KR-2S (DDT Soob - NO redrive here!!)=20 Currently glueing plywood skins on fuselage KR-2SBuilder@bigfoot.com http://www.KR-2S.home.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:30:54 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: CD-ROM update Oscar Same here, Oscar. John F. Esch 533 Clarmar Dr NE Salem, OR 97301 rmccall wrote: > Oscar, > > Put me on the list for a CD. Thanks. > > Rich McCall > 1518 Holly Lane > Junction City, KS 66441 > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Hello, Netters > > > > Just a note to everyone who indicated interest in the Archive > CD-ROM, > > AKA Traveling Resource Library- > > > > I am awaiting arrival of the Newsletters from Dana for scanning, and > > > also awaiting arrival of the KRNet archives on CD from my good buddy > up > > in Hillsboro. I have Adobe Acrobat 3.0.1 ready to convert the files > to > > .pfd format, and will either imbed Reader onto each CD-ROM, or else > let > > everybody get their own Reader in their preferred version (Win 3.X, > Win > > 95, Mac, Unix, but no DOS available...). It's free, and of course > > allows search on keywords, etc. > > > > I have been extremely busy at work, but this is play so it keeps me > > mellowed out. As soon as it starts coming together, I'll send out a > > > query to everybody who expressed interest; I will need postal > mailing > > addresses at that time. And, yes, if you posted either to the Net > or to > > me directly, I have your post in my file... I haven't forgotten you! > > > > > And hey- go out to the shop and check your WAFs, if you haven't > already > > done so. Give them the old Arnold Schwarzenegger test, like Mike > did. > > Don't be WAFfling on this issue! ;o) Apologies to Robert > Covington... > > > > Regards, > > > > Oscar > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:00:01 EST From: DAN469@aol.com Subject: KR: motor mout extentions I am presently building a kr2s and have seen many kr2's where they have extended the motor mount by one to two inches. I have a revemaster 2100 and am wondering if it will be necessary to extend the motor mount. I would appreciate any input on this matter. Thanks Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:35:08 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 2180 Update. At 10:42 PM 2/17/98 EST, you wrote: >Mike quick question, did you just use a resin and flox/micro mix for your >weather seal? If not, what. >Thanks. > I should have taken some pics huh? Here is how I did it: 1) I used two layers of duct tape all around the outside of the door (with door open). I applied the tape so some of it would wrap around and into the cockpit. 2) Scuff sanded all around the outside edges of the door. 3) Closed the door and latched it shut with two clamps 4) I mixed up a batch of flox and squeegeed it onto the door to make it level with the fuselage. 5) Wetout 3 layers of bid about 2 inches wide and applied them to the door letting one inch overlap onto the duct tape. 6) Peel plyed the glass to keep the nasty edges under control. Let cure 48 hours (Dang Aeropoxy) 7) Removed door carefully so not to bend, break, or rip the lip around the edge. 8) Trimmed edge to 1/2 inch. 9) Now with the door laying on the work bench, and the outside of the door facing down I used a Dremel tool to clean up the flox squeeze out from around the door. 10) Wet out a one inch wide bid tape that wraps from the wood frame onto the 1/2 inch lip (door still sitting on table with the outside facing down) Then your done and have a 1/2 wide lip all the way around the door. Now you will apply one layer of duct tape to the lip (outside) and install the door and clamp it shut. Apply micro around the edge of the door and let it cure. Sand the micro down until you are flush with the lip (the one with duct tape on it) and once again pop open the door. Now your lip has a nice flush mount appearance. I will take pictures of all this on Saturday and a few of Brads canopy so you can see the end result. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:42:58 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: motor mout extentions At 12:00 AM 2/18/98 EST, you wrote: >I am presently building a kr2s and have seen many kr2's where they have >extended the motor mount by one to two inches. I have a revemaster 2100 and >am wondering if it will be necessary to extend the motor mount. I would >appreciate any >input on this matter. >Thanks >Dan > I guess this would be a matter of where you want your empty CG to fall. I plan to set my CG as far forward as I can. I haven't figured the numbers yet but it would be nice to be just into the CG range with only me in the airplane (and maybe a little fuel). Of curse this could be limited by the darn thing falling on its nose! :o) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:30:32 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: exhaust system tape >> At 05:22 PM 2/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >4) Nifty exhaust manifold tape! Should keep the temperature in the >> >cowling down. However at $40.00, I might want to sell you what I have >> left over... If any. >> > >> Dude don't use the exhaust tape unless your pipes are chrome or cadmium >> plated. (Or some kind of plating) Otherwise they will rust pronto! >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Micheal Mims >> Building outer wings now > >Hmmm, > Everything in Oregon rusts pronto anyway, but it does give me a reason >to re-consider. I wouldn't be able to SEE the rust. Maybe I'd have to put >a 50 hour/annual inspection item to remove the tape and check the pipes. >The advantage of cooler cowling temps may be worth it. I could check >out getting the pipes plated, but then that makes everything heavier... >not to mention more expensive. Ugh. Steve Bennett says it's dangerous to use insulating tape unless the exhaust is stainless steel. I didn't understand why, but I guess rust and inability to inspect are the reason. I'm not sure how much good this does anyway. Once the air is through the cylinder fins and on the way out, does it matter how hot it gets from the exhaust? Or are you trying to keep the heat from getting out of the pipes for some other reason? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:21:53 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: door seal (lip) I uploaded a crude drawing of the canopy / door seal I used on my KR (stole the idea from the Viking Dragonfly). You can see it by going to the ideas page or just by going straight there using the url below. http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims/lip.jpg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:06:03 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: motor mout extentions In a message dated 98-02-18 00:02:27 EST, you write: << I am presently building a kr2s and have seen many kr2's where they have extended the motor mount by one to two inches. I have a revemaster 2100 and am wondering if it will be necessary to extend the motor mount. I would appreciate any input on this matter. Thanks Dan >> Dan, I'm building a KR2 not an S but I'm going to assume ( oh, no) that the airplane per plans rides on the aft CG occupied. I used the old retract spring bar material and had eight 1" spacers machined from the stock and mounted two the engine mount and accessory case. I'm using a VW 2180 (soon to be). With my current setup I'm going to be preety close to Jeff Scott's KR-2S in that it's going to take about a 125 lb. pilot to get it into CG. To answer your question, these things will be aft CG with two people unless you do something. Dan Deihl moved his forward 3" I believe. It'll do nothing but help. Mike, you're right, you can do the two finger pickup on the tail empty. Thanks for the URL and insight into the gap seal, nice procedure. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:13:08 +0200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: RE: AOL Problems Rick had the problem with my transmission so all I did was to delete my auto signature in MS outlook Kobus - -----Original Message----- From: EagleGator@aol.com [SMTP:EagleGator@aol.com] Sent: 18 February, 1998 01:01 To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: KR: AOL Problems Is anyone else using AOL having problems receiving the Digest? It appears that if someone sends a post with a winmail.dat file attached, it kicks AOL and won't let the digest file be attached to the distribution message that is sent. I know, I know, I should get a REAL ISP, but that's not an option right now. If you're sending posts that contain winmail.dat files, is there a way you can turn that feature off? Thanks for your help! Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:04:47 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy Physical Data Micheal Mims wrote: > > > I have heard from other designers on this subject and they say its too soft > and or too flexible. You may want to continue your research. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > -------------- My experience and testing shows that the faster the epoxy sets up the more brittle it is. West system has at least two speeds of hardner. System 3 has three. None of them are as slow as Aeropoxy setting up. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------ Marvin McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:24:58 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity Well I spoke with Roy Marsh ( KR2S prototype and one great looking airplane!)at the 1995 KR Gathering and he told me that he used the West System Epoxy. His plane has been flying for a few years now ( and won some Sun and Fun races at 190MPH) with no problems to my knowledge. I heard it was sold last year to someone else. I also have used West System for years on RC models and really enjoy how easily it sets up and sands. Signed Confused [At 08:10 AM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 07:38 AM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >>I have been using West Systems epoxy for five or six years now on radio >>control models. I have gone through about four or five gallens with no >>apparent problems.>>>> > >I know I have brought this up before but you guys who want to use West >Systems on your KR should make sure its OK. None of the designers of the >true composite planes (foam and glass) allow the use of West Systems for >anything that's structural only for filler (micro). >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Regional Sales Manager................. Schlumberger Electricity Division...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR cgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:01:06 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy Physical Data At 07:04 AM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote: > My experience and testing shows that the faster the epoxy sets up the >more brittle it is. West system has at least two speeds of hardner. >System 3 has three. None of them are as slow as Aeropoxy setting up. > Good point! I bet if I could slide my KR into an oven for about an hour or two it would be nice and hard! :o) Chino in the summer should take care of that, I would imagine a few days baking in the 100+ degree hanger will help. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:05:26 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity At 10:24 AM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >His plane has been flying for a few years now ( and won some Sun and Fun races at 190MPH) with no problems to my knowledge. I heard it was sold last year to someone else. up and sands.>>>> Would be very cool if it is usable! It is low cost and is much more widely available than anything else we have access too. I have used it to make filler and I agree it is a dream to work with, plus the fact it comes with neat little pumps for perfect measuring! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:02:34 -0500 From: "Bob Vermeulen" Subject: KR: Re: CD - ---------- Oscar; Put me on the list for the CD: Bob Vermeulen Omega Productions 304 Cedar St. NE Grand Rapids, MI 49503 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:06:38 EST From: MikeTnyc@aol.com Subject: KR: West Epoxy >>His plane has been flying for a few years now ( and won some Sun and Fun >>races at 190MPH) with no problems to my knowledge. I heard it was sold last >>year to someone else. up and sands.>>>> >Would be very cool if it is usable! It is low cost and is much more widely >available than anything else we have access too. I have used it to make >filler and I agree it is a dream to work with, plus the fact it comes with >neat little pumps for perfect measuring! Has anyone tried just asking West whether they recommend their stuff for KR's and other composite planes? Or are they one of the companies that doesn't want to know about experimental aviation? Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:10:34 -0500 From: kim kroes Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity I have called RR and was told that they do not recommend using the West System because they say it begins to soften with temp. I then called Gougeon Brothers Inc. and they basically poo-pooed saying that by the time the epoxy lost it's structural integrity your foam would be melted! They then sent me an 18 page article called "Fatigue Aspects of Epoxies and Epoxy/Wood Composite Materials". I'm sure they sent it to me to prove their point that their product is good in planes (it's awful technical and dry reading, I confess I have not made it all the way through it yet.)I am sure they would send a copy to anyone else with an engineering background to understand it. Or if I can get their OK to duplicate the paper I will e-mail it (I think I can get it scanned in to the computer). I have talked to Gougeon before and they have always been helpful and seem to be good folk. I have used their products extensively in boat projects/repairs and like it very much. I intend to use it through out my KR2S project. No adverse reactions to the epoxy yet! kim Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 02:37 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >With so little of the KR composite work actually being structural I > >wonder if it really matters? If it did, we wouldn't have so much spruce > >in the wings and tail would we? > > > >Steve Eberhart > > Yea that's something I have thought about too, after working with the resin > from RR I know West Systems have to be just as good if no better. Someone > could call and ask RR I guess! :o) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Building outer wings now > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:14:52 -0500 From: kim kroes Subject: Re: KR: Epoxy toxisity Just read this post and find it interesting that this is different than what I was told last year when I called RR. She refered me to her "Expert" (can't remember his name) who talked about the Temperature concern in the structure not in the glass.....interesting kim Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 01:43 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: > <> > > OK So I just called RR, she said that she will be selling Aeropoxy instead > of the Rand Epoxy in the future. Aeropoxy is the recommended resin for all > fiberglass construction on the KR series. She said no to West Systems for > fiberglass work but OK to use on wood (where your laying up a layer of glass > over the plywood). She also said to use a sloshing compound in your tanks > if they are constructed with Aeropoxy and highly recommends an aluminum tank > if you are planning on autofuel. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Micheal Mims > Building outer wings now > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims > Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:31:43 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: Wing & Horiz Stab spars Jim Hayward; I agree with MM. I also had to remove some material from the fuse uprights to get the spars to fit and be square and level. Don't worry about removing a little ( 1/8 max) material if needed, but use the 3/32 ply gussets inside the fuse at this joint regardless of whether your building a KR2 or KR2S. This is cheap insurance! I also plan to add spruce blocking and gussets at the rear spar to fuse joint, again for safety. BTW don't forget the 5/8 spruce blocks at the spar fuse junction on the outside of the fuselage ply. Happy building. I'm just finishing my wood work after 6 month at it. (KR2S) Regards Chris Gardiner At 02:17 PM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 04:53 PM 2/17/98 EST, you wrote: >> My question concerns how to correct this. I'm thinking of >>sanding the aft vertical member face of one station and the >>fwd vertical member face of the other station where the spar >>goes thru the fuselage and shim accordingly. I'm a bit >>concerned about reducing the strength of the vertical member >>at the given station and am wondering if there's a better way. >> >>Jim Hayward >> > >Well for what its worth that is what I did. I didn't have to remove very >much material but with the plywood triangle pieces I don't think it matters >that much anyway (well as long as you don't sand half way through the >vertical members!) > >I forgot to ask, are you building a KR2 or an S? The reason I ask is I >don't think the plywood triangles are on the KR2 plans. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Micheal Mims >Building outer wings now > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims >Fax 714.856.9417 > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Regional Sales Manager................. Schlumberger Electricity Division...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR clgardiner@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:31:15 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Aluminum and plastic fuel cells Those of you looking for fuel cells should check the Summit racing catalog, there are fuel cells of all shapes and sizes made from molded polyethylene or aluminum and are foam filled. Prices are from $80 to $280 and sizes are from 5 gallons to 22 gallons. They are fitted with an aircraft style cap and AN fittings, plus can be fitted with a 0 -90 ohm sending unit. Get a catalog at: http://www.summitracing.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Building outer wings now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #43 ****************************