From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 4:36 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #52 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, March 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 052 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:26:25 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: Vinyl Ester Resin In a message dated 98-03-09 20:06:08 EST, you write: << The colder it is, the more mekp you need. It depends on the resin, it comes as 'promoted' (quick set), 'slow' (24 hours) and I think a 'regular' (don't know for sure about this one). >> Larry, Thanks for the info, what I've got is "medium promoted". I guess I'm going to have to figure out how many cc's are in this 4 oz bottle of catalyst. If anybody has Dan's instructions on mixing I'd appreciate it, if not I'll give him a call. Jean, thanks I was figuring it'd get "hot" quick. I'm going to use Mark's idea about laying up a couple of layers on a sheet of glass, then the 1/4 last-a-foam and sandwich it with a top layer, so I'll mix up the second batch after I've got the glass side done. I'll give Mark a call also. If anybody's got any other ideas please let me know. Remember Sun & Fun KR Group rates Tampa Fairground Budgetel 813 626-0885 $59.95. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:34:56, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Re: Vinyl Ester Resin Right again. I ment cc's instead of oz. I strongly suggest latex gloves when using any resins. It makes cleanup easier too. Jeaan N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:40:25, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. I always torqued my wood props on the VW's to 10 ft./lbs. I think I got that from Ed Sterba. Just make sure you are not crushinf the fibers. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:49:00, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: calendar idea Mark If you would like to persue the air to air shots. I know a guy with a Ercoupe that flys very nicely with the windows down. He is in the Tulsa area and could be easily talked into coming to Perrykosh this year. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:43:26 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: air to air calendar shots Jean, Sign me up!!!!!!!!! I did some air to air stuff of the Lionheart from a Swift with the window down. It was a real blast. It sounds corny, but it's really different when there's nothing between you and an airplane 50 feet away. I'd love to talk the Ercoupe guy into a repeat performance. Maybe we could make this painless by lining up the KRs before or after the spot landing contest and let them parade by one at a time for a portrait. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford - ---------- > From: MR JEAN R VERON > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: calendar idea > Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 8:49 PM > > Mark > If you would like to persue the air to air shots. I know a guy with > a Ercoupe that flys very nicely with the windows down. He is in the > Tulsa area and could be easily talked into coming to Perrykosh this > year. > Jean > N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:56:07, -0500 From: YCGB97A@prodigy.com (MR JEAN R VERON) Subject: KR: air to air calendar shots Mark I will talk to him tomorrow since he and i work together. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:08:05 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: calendar idea I wasn't too hot on T-Shirts, etc., but I'd love to have calendars. I could put one in my office so fellow-workers would have proof I'm not the only one who's ever wanted to build one of these. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:46:31 EST From: KenikaS Subject: KR: epoxy I was wondering if anyone has experience using either the Dow DER 330 epoxy sold by Wicks, or the epoxy RR sells. Does anyone know what type the RR epoxy is? I haven't seen anyone else selling an equal mix structural epoxy. I'm getting to the point of foam and glass and would appreciate any info you all can give on working with, advantages, and/or drawbacks of any of the available epoxies that can be used on the KR-2. Thanks, Dennis Steed Salt Lake City, UT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:09:54 EST From: KR2 616TJ Subject: Re: KR: epoxy In a message dated 98-03-10 06:47:50 EST, you write: << I was wondering if anyone has experience using either the Dow DER 330 epoxy sold by Wicks, Dennis Steed Salt Lake City, UT >> Dennis, the experience I had with Dow 330 was that it took forever to set up hard. On the plus side it gave you plenty of time to work with it and you could mix up large batches of the stuff without having to worry about it cooking itself. Dana Overall Richmond, KY kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:49:28 -0500 From: msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) Subject: KR: KR T-shirts (no archive) owner-krnet-l@teleport.com writes: >if we can print T-shirts we should be able to figure out how to make a >calendar with a dozen good pictures of KRs. Just a thought. There are KR T-shirts? Count me in for a couple. Who do I send my $$ to? Mike Sharkey X11 Development SoftArc Inc. http://www.softarc.com/~msharkey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:50:46 -0800 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: air to air calendar shots - ------------------- Mark: A picture of a bunch of KRs flying in formation would make a nice shot. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - ---------------------------- Mark Langford wrote: > > Maybe we could make this painless by lining up the KRs before or after the > spot landing contest and let them parade by one at a time for a portrait. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > email at langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:12:38 EST From: Horn2004 Subject: Re: KR: calendar shots In a message dated 3/10/98 8:55:59 AM, you wrote: <<> Maybe we could make this painless by lining up the KRs before or afte= r the > spot landing contest and let them parade by one at a time for a portrai= t.>> Before everyone goes hog wild on the photo thing, I'd like to add my two = cents=0Aworth. Instead of stuffing each month with as many aircraft photo= s as=0Apossible, I would suggesting using a variety of different shots so= that each=0Amonth will provide something distinctly different visually. = Perhaps the cover=0Acould be a group shot, arranged on the ramp, shot fro= m an elevated angle, of=0Aall the KRs in attendance. Then maybe one month= would be 2-3 KRs in formation,=0Ashot air to air, early in the morning o= r just prior to sunset (nice warm light=0Athen). Then maybe the next mont= h would feature an outstanding KR=97perhaps one=0Awhich has some well tho= ught out and executed mods=97 shot on the ramp. We could=0Athen shoot som= e detail shots of the mods and run them as insets. These insets=0Acould c= arry a descriptive caption. The bottom line is this: a visually=0Aarresti= ng calendar=92s photos are planned well in advance of the photo shoot.=0A= Once that is done, we have a shot list from which to shoot. If you don't= =0Aapproach the project in an organized manner, you will wind up with wha= t=0Aresembles a bunch of snap shots taken at a local fly-in while on vaca= tion. If=0Ayou just want to go out and burn film and then pick the ones w= hich have the=0Amost KRs in them, go ahead. At this point you won't need = a designer on the=0Aproject, all you'll need is a mouse jockey from your = local quick printer. No flames intended. Group input is good. Design by committee is bad. Steve (torch me quick) Horn Dallas, TX Horn2004@aol.com=0A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:39:34 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: KR T-shirts (no archive) Mike S. wrote: >There are KR T-shirts? Count me in for a couple. Who do I send my $$ to? Hiya, Mike and others who asked- I think some of the guys have made one-off T-shirts just by going down to the t-shirt shop in the local mall, but Rand-Robinson has theirs available (check their catalog) along with mugs, etc. We have a project in the mill to do some KRNet shirts, but that project is behind the Traveling Resource Library CD-ROM. The concensus there was to do polo shirts, which are not going to be in the same ballpark as tees. I have been in touch with Ross about this, and will get back on it once the CD is done (just in time for warm wx here in the PacNW). Those shirts look to be out about $30, but you can wear them to your country club and not get kicked out (or to your cousin's wedding, if you're in Podunk). I will have a mock-up available in a couple of weeks, and may get Ross to post it on the KRNet page. I have talked with Randy about maybe some door prizes at Perry... like maybe anybody who kicks in to the KRNet admin fund will get their name in a hat, then names get drawn for the prizes (shirt? calendar? CD?} And, no- I am not in the advertising/marketing business ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:31:03 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: epoxy At 06:46 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >Does anyone know what type the RR epoxy is?>>> I don't know what kind it is but don't even consider it for the glass work, because it sucks! Try Aeropoxy, EZPoxy and I think some have used West Systems. Actually RR is recommending Aeropoxy as of last month. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Proud Member of the Area 51 BBA mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims mirror site at : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:31:06 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR T-shirts (no archive) At 09:49 AM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >There are KR T-shirts? Count me in for a couple. Who do I send my $$ to? > >Mike Sharkey >> Uhh,...Rand Robinson?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micheal Mims Proud Member of the Area 51 BBA mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://home.pacbell.net/mikemims mirror site at : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Fax 714.856.9417 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 17:27:28 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: Video Perry Hi Guys Well my PAL version of the Perry flying days arrived today in the post from Video Bob. I can see why everyone was raving about it. My compliments to all that took part and to the video people that made it. It really is good and makes one want to carry on building and to get in the air and enjoy what all the others are enjoying already. I must say many thanks to video Bob for the fantastic video and lets hope that there are some more videos made like it. For those that don't have the video , you don't know what you are missing. Regards - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:23:07 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. At 05:08 3/9/98 -0600, Mark wrote: > >Anybody know the answer to this question? I haven't quite >gotten to the prop part yet... >Mark Langford... >> From: Don & Esther Walters >> I have a friend who is building a "Kr2s, and is now at the prop. He >> would like to know what the bolts torque out at.... >> Don Eric Clutton is less helpful than usual, he offers only that the fixings should be tight but the wood should not be crushed. He suggests using stiffnuts until the prop is bedded in, to allow retorquing with no more than a seven inch wrench. I see that Jean offered 10 ft.lbs on a VW hub, and Don offered 19 ft.lbs on a C200 hub. Let's see if I can drum up some numbers. The crush strength across grain for a variety of suitable timbers is given below. (from Macabee) Both hard and softwoods are used in props, sometimes together. Ash 1680 psi Birch 1380 Oak 1450 Spruce 740 (If these numbers are worrying, remember that ALONG the grain as in WAFs on spars these woods are much tougher, spruce is 4700 vs 740 psi for instance) Prop bolts are usually used to tension a prop plate against the hub. A sample plate is say 5 in od, 3 in od, that's 19.6 - 7.1 = 12.5 sq in Assume the prop is all spruce ( but could be a wood twice as resistant to crush) then the allowable force is say 80% crush or 740 x 0.8 x 12.5 = 7400 pounds shared by six bolts, that's 1233 lbs per bolt. Picking a bolt size out of the air ( 3/8 x 16) where you might be using 5/16 in or even 1/4 in - the thread on this particular bolt rises 0.053in per inch of circumference, so in ideal circumstances, you would apply 1233 x .053 = 65 lbs at 3/16 inch from the bolt axis, that's 29 ft.lbs. In view of the uncertainties surrounding this calculation ( e.g is the prop washer REALLY stiff enough not to deflect when the bolts are tightened?) I would use Jean's number 10 ft.lbs as a lower limit, and this number as an upper limit, and start with Don's number - 19 ft.lbs. But if you see a permanent depression in the hub behind the washer, you tightened too much! Whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:59:45 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque Whoa you guys. Wooden props should be first torqued to eight pounds then to a final ten pounds.Check for tracking against a chair back or similar. If you find that you can't get your split pins inserted then increase to a max of twelve pounds. The extra will normally equate to at least one whole flat moving and allow alignment of the holes.Check for tracking again. If it's out more than quarter of an inch then slacken off all bolts and start again.I position my props so they are as horizontal as I can get them and still allow a hand start from the rear. Metal props will go to one hundred pounds Good Luck...........Dave David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:31:16 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Prop Torque At 09:59 3/11/98 +1300, you wrote: >Whoa you guys. >Wooden props should be first torqued to eight pounds then to a final ten >pounds.... >David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz. > David, opinions on KR related issues are always welcome - but if you don't quote references, working/calculations or authorities that's all you have, an opinion. So how do you base your judgment on prop bolt torquing? Does it apply to thick hubs and thin hubs and softwoods and ironwoods? Above all - have you flown wood props torqued this way for a long period? Regards Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:50:09 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: Video Perry I must have missed the posting in the KR Newsletter for the 1997 video. I was at Perry,OK and would like to get one from "Video Bob" ?? CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A MAILING ADDRESS AND $ FOR THIS VIDEO.? Thanks and Regards to all KR Netheads. Chris Gardiner At 05:27 PM 3/10/98 GMT, you wrote: >Hi Guys > >Well my PAL version of the Perry flying days arrived today in the post from >Video Bob. I can see why everyone was raving about it. My compliments to all >that took part and to the video people that made it. It really is good and >makes one want to carry on building and to get in the air and enjoy what all >the others are enjoying already. >I must say many thanks to video Bob for the fantastic video and lets hope that >there are some more videos made like it. >For those that don't have the video , you don't know what you are missing. >Regards >-- >Rob Matthews Have a nice day >South Africa >email mathewrz@iafrica.com > > 0000,0000,ffffChris Gardiner......................... Client Service Manager................. Schlumberger RMS...... 905 813 5009 voice 905 858 9473 FAX E mail..gardiner@mississauga.em.slb.com OR clgard@netcom.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:27:24 -0800 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: KR: WAF's Has anyone thought of finding out if the WAF's can be made on a computerized plazma torch system? I was wondering what the quality and costs or if it would be feasible to have a set made up. John F. Esch KR-2S (one fuse side built) Salem, OR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:30:22 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque - ---------- > From: David Stuart > To: Rudman > Subject: Fw: New fella > Date: Saturday, 21 February 1998 17:13 > > > > ---------- > > From: David Stuart > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: KR: New fella > > Date: Monday, 19 January 1998 18:53 > > > > Hi > > My name is David and I live in Wellington down under in NewZealand. > > > > My claim to fame is a KR2 Special and I say special because it is now 13 > > years old and was built with a 17inch extension in the rear and the > > appropriate engine mount and prop extension for c/g purposes making it > > 26inches longer overall. It has been widened at the cockpit by 3inches > and > > is using a Dragonfly canopy witch gives a nice gentle slope up to the > > turtle deck. RR aluminium fixed undercarriage has replaced the retracts > and > > is sitting on 400/4 tyres and Cleveland hydraulic independant disc brakes > > with stylish wheel pants. The rudder is 4inches wider in chord and also > > 4inches higher and tends to help with the gusty conditions we fly in > round > > here and has a strobe fitted to the top. Dual leaf springs hold the tail > > wheel after having broken several of the single standard ones. > > Power is Revmaster 2100D with dual Bendex single drive mags with the > extra > > set of points for the tacho. Carb is a Stromberg CD150 which is auto > > altitude compensating and uses 15ltrs/hr at cruise and 10ltrs/hr local > > pussing around. > > Battery is a Chinese type used in Harleys and is mounted in the engine > bay > > right front bulkhead. > > Charging is courtesy of Revmaster through a Honda black box. This is a > > mistake as it only gives 4amps. Am looking to improve this at present. > > Propellor is a Clark Performance Propellor 52/48 but am currently test > > flying an electric variable pitch job that is showing great promise. > > Radio is a Com 11A coupled with an intercom and Transponder with mode C. > > Specs are using Avgas 100 > > > > Max static 3000 > > Max angle climb 60kts@ 3000 > > Max rate climb 70kts > > Cruise 125kts @3000 > > Local flying 100kts@2500 > > Stall 48kts. A mushy non event with a high rate of sink. Aeliron control > > remains down to 40kts indicated or 35kts GPS > > Approach two up 70kts solo 60kts > > FenceTwo up 60kts solo 50kts > > Gusty or crosswind I use wheeler behind the mains especialy on seal. > > Empty weight is 665lbs > > Gross weight is 1150lbs > > Total time engine and air frame 520hrs. Her birth flight was Aug 24th > > 1984. > > Oil change every 25hrs full synthetic oil > > Tappets 5and7 cold > > Engine has had two valve grinds. There has been no other maintainance > > aside from magneto points cleaning. > > 70 litres fuel in one tank with gravity feed to the CD150 > > > > I trust this info is not boring and can be compared constructively > > As far as mods go, the only thing I long for is to get off the ground > > quicker and hopefully the new vari prop will do this. > > > > Cheers..........Dave. ZK_CSR > > > > David.Stuart@xtra.com.nz > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:28:44 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque - ---------- > From: David Stuart > To: Rudman > Subject: Fw: New Zealand fly-in > Date: Saturday, 21 February 1998 17:19 > > > > ---------- > > From: David Stuart > > To: KR Newsgroup > > Subject: New Zealand fly-in > > Date: Saturday, 14 February 1998 20:57 > > > > Just a quick report to let you guys know we are still alive and kicking > > down here in New Zealand. > > On the 5th I flew north in my KR-2S to a fly in at MATAMATA. Thats in the > > middle of the North Island of New Zealand. > > The occasion was to celebrate 50 years of the JODEL. And boy there were a > > lot of D9's and D11.s there. > > I never counted but would guess 16 easy. > > > > But get this. > > > > There were also 7 KR's > > > > 1----KR-1 retract, now over 17 years old and powered by a Walter Micron > > straight four. > > 2----KR-2 retract, one now 16 years old > > 3----KR-2 fixed > > 1----KR-2s fixed, now 15 years old (mine). > > > > All the 2,s are V.W. powered. Mostly Revmaster 2180.s and two Hapi 1800,s > > > > How about that for little old N.Z. > > Total aircraft attendance was i believe over 200. > > > > Public attendance must have been in the thousands with temperatures in > the > > high 20's every day. > > > > The show went for three mighty days. Just planes, planes planes. > > > > On the way up I flew with a Jodel D9 and a Taylor Monoplane, both which > > have a cruise speed of 60kts. That made it very interesting as my stall > > speed is 48kts. That meant for over four hours excluding fuel stops we > were > > in or just above the stall as we slowed down then sped up etc. Mostly the > > revs were 2200rpm and 12inches.On the return I went direct on my own in > 1hr > > 10min, 125kts@3000 with an average fuel burn for the whole trip of 12lts > > per hr. > > > > Am still coming down after a tremendous weekend > > Enough ramblings > > > > You guys still building out there are going to have a ball > > Jeese! What a weekend > > > > Keep Sanding > > David Stuart > > > > David.Stuart@xtra.com.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:18:05 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque Brian, Recieved your flame. First licence 1972 mainly Cubs, Victor 100's etc 1978 saw my first home-built a Piel Emeraude CP301 powered by a 0320E2D lycoming of 150hp.Many wooden and metal props were tried out in the never ending quest for more speed. From 1984.Minicabs, Jodels, Fisher FP202, Thrusters (2 stroke), Scout (2 stroke), Bantams, and in the last few years Druine D31 Turbulent, and at present Rand KR2 Special. I am sure Brian you will notice that all the above have wooden props. During this time I have been fortunate to have worked with and under some of the most highly qualified LAME's in New Zealand and probably in the world. Ian Henry Propellors made right here in New Zealand are highly regarded throughout the world and I am proud to have had council many times with the man himself in solving my problems and indeed many others. You ask the amount of hours I have flown on props torqued this way. Well the Turbulent has done over 300Hrs and my KR2 Special has done well over 500Hrs. Naturally you read my post re the KR2 special and the fly in and it does surprise me that you arrived at the opinion that you did, but just in case you didn't I will send them both again. Regards.............Dave David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:27:31 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque - ---------- > From: David Stuart > To: Rudman > Subject: Fw: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella > Date: Saturday, 21 February 1998 17:18 > > > > ---------- > > From: Douglas Dorfmeier > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: Re: KR: Variable Pitch..New Fella > > Date: Tuesday, 20 January 1998 17:04 > > > > Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > > > > > > David Stuart wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks michael and Ross. > > > > > > > > The prop has a spring loaded center default switch mounted on the > panel > > > > just above the throttle and an indicator light mounted right up high > on the > > > > panel in my line of vision. > > > > The idea is to set full fine for take off and in my case that will > give > > > > 3400rpm static (a gain of 400rpm). > > > > During take off roll and initial climb it is left in fine mode untill > > > > things settle down and about 200-300 agl you can start toggling the > switch > > > > to coursen the pitch untill the indicator light glows. This tells you > it is > > > > now full course and performs just like my fixed pitch prop. You can > also > > > > select any point between fine and course and leave it there. > > > > Behind the panel is a little control box about the size of a 20 > cigarette > > > > packet. This unit takes the power supply and organises the signal to > the > > > > indicator light and changes the phasing for the motor to run foward > or back > > > > (fine or course). The light glows red for full fine and green for > full > > > > course.Two wires from the unit lead to a brush block and is > transfered via > > > > a slip ring mounted behind the spinner mounting plate and into the > motor. > > > > To date I have had five test flights and five forced landings all on > our > > > > field. The failures were all electronic and hopefully thats the end > of > > > > them. I must explaine that the faults all occured whilst selecting > fine > > > > pitch for landing. The pitch blocks had not been set for fine and I > would > > > > end up with an engine trying to rev at about 3800rpm or untill I > popped the > > > > fuse. The blades have just been repitched and the mods have been > completed > > > > on the module so hopefully I will get some time on it before our > National > > > > flyin on the 6-7-8 FEB. > > > > I understand a couple of KIWI fellas flew a Titan Tornado around the > states > > > > recently and they had one of these props on and never had any trouble > > > > The manufactureer has informed me they are about $7000US to you guys > > > > Is that a good price or not over there? > > > > > > > > Cheers..........Dave > > > > David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz > > > I have read about what I think is the same prop. It is called Ivoprop > > > and a three blade model sells for a little over $700. The two blade is > > > less. They have a web page on the internet. Search under Ivoprop. > > I just relocated the web page. Ivoprop can be found at > > http://members.aol.com/chanik/ed/ivo,htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:28:59 -0500 From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: width What would be the ideal width for using a Dragonfly canopy? anyone know? AARP (the Association for the Advancement of Richard Parker) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:20:48 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Prop Torque At 14:18 3/11/98 +1300, you wrote: >Brian, >Received your flame. David, I didn't intend my note as a flame. But I have seen that rarest of sights from the air - a plane that has lost a blade, and so I have some inkling of the consequences of messing up a prop bolt torque check. >... I have been fortunate to have worked with and under some >of the most highly qualified LAME's in New Zealand and probably in the >world. >Ian Henry Propellors made right here in New Zealand are highly regarded >throughout the world and I am proud to have had council many times with the >man himself in solving my problems and indeed many others.... > David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz Dave, I recommend you ask Ian Henry to take a look at FAA AC 43.13 paragraph 618 sub C Of course it is not binding on him - heck I think it's even outdated here by now - but this was the FAA's considered opinion: "...Tighten hub bolts, preferably with a torque wrench, to the recommended values, which usually range from 15 to 24 foot-pounds.....The tightening is best accomplished by tightening each bolt a little at a time, being sure to tighten alternate bolts which are diametrically opposite. Exercise care not to overtighten hub bolts, thereby damaging the wood underneath the hub flanges. Avoid the practice of overtightening bolts to draw the propeller into track..." Then ask Ian Henry again how tight prop bolts should be tightened. Perhaps you misremembered it was always 10.... Sincerely, Brian Whatcott Altus OK p.s. I have a list of wood prop makers on the net. If Henry would like to be added, please send me his details. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:37:52 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: Video Perry Chris Gardiner wrote: > CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A MAILING ADDRESS AND $ FOR THIS VIDEO.? From my web page: The 1997 KR Gathering video is now available from Omega Productions for $25.00 from: Bob Vermeulen Omega Productions 304 Cedar St, NE Grand Rapids, MI 49503 Or you can call at (616)774-3913. Bob accepts check, MC, and Visa. This is as close as you can get without having been there. It features interviews with KR builders and pilots, detailed look at many of the KRs attending, lots of flying, and a ride with Marty Roberts in his 0-200 powered KR2. This video is great for getting sufficiently fired up to start or finish building your KR! Another video detailing the antennas, composites, woodworking, and finishing seminars that were held at the Gathering will also be available soon. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:34:42 EST From: EagleGator Subject: KR: Experimental Flight Test Plan Greetings! I'm writing to you because you requested information about my web page or expressed interest in the experimental aircraft test plan I'm working on. After literally hundreds of hits on my web page, I have not received many comments on my plan, good, bad, or indifferent. Please take a moment and tell me if the draft was useful to you, and send any comments you might have. If it was a waste of your time, please tell me that, also. Without your feedback, the plan will not continue to improve. Thanks for your time, and continued success with your project! Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com http://members.aol.com/eaglegator ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:40:53 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Re: Dragonfly canopy width > What would be the ideal width for using a Dragonfly canopy? I'd say easily anywhere from 38" to 52", roughly. They're very flexible. Jim Hill used one on his stock width KR2, and it looks great. Don Betchan did as well. I think the Dragonfly is about 48" at the widest, so that's easy too. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL email at langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project construction at http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:39:09 -0700 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:23:07 -0600 brian whatcott writes: >of circumference, so in ideal circumstances, you would apply 1233 x .053 = >65 lbs at 3/16 inch from the bolt axis, that's 29 ft.lbs. Gosh Brian, I feel better about that. The manufacturer of my prop (Performance Propellors) recommends 30 - 35 ft/lb on the small Continental engines (like my C-85) and 35 - 40 ft/lbs on the Lycomings. However, my prop is 64 very thin laminates of hard maple as opposed to only six laminates found in many. That's not to say the others are good or bad. Just that the prop bolt torque values are probably very different. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >In view of the uncertainties surrounding this calculation ( e.g is the prop >washer REALLY stiff enough not to deflect when the bolts are tightened?) > I would use Jean's number 10 ft.lbs as a lower limit, and this number as >an upper limit, and start with Don's number - 19 ft.lbs. > But if you see a permanent depression in the hub behind the washer, you >tightened too much! > >Whatcott Altus OK > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:20:15 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. At 19:39 3/10/98 -0700, Jeffrey Scott wrote: >... The manufacturer of my prop >(Performance Propellors) recommends 30 - 35 ft/lb on the small >Continental engines (like my C-85) and 35 - 40 ft/lbs on the Lycomings. >However, my prop is 64 very thin laminates of hard maple as opposed to >only six laminates found in many. ... >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM That was an interesting note. I didn't consciously look at your ship, but if I remember you were at Perry having fun, while I was caged up in the hangar with the odd expensive radio microphone dropping off me onto the concrete :-) Anyway - that multilaminate method is the way that scimitar props are made, I hear - is that what you are flying? Regards Brian Altus OK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:02:37 +1300 From: "David Stuart" Subject: KR: Prop Torque Brian' No I didn't MISREMEMBER as you put it. Ten pounds plus two pounds for pins. Thats the way I was tought and thats the way I have done it for the last twenty six years. You are quoting fifteen to twenty four pounds. No obvious damage will be done at twenty four pounds except for the thousands of little air pockets you have probably destroyed in the crushing process. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY should you tighten to twenty four on a wooden prop.But then I have only been fitting props for twenty six years so will have to bow to your obviously more extensive experiance. Regards.............Dave David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:05:22 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. For those of you who may be interested: I have a 52 X 48 Aymar-Demuth prop on my KR-2 (N54PB). The manufacture instructed me over the phone to torque the prop to 11 FT lbs and to check the torque after each flight until the torque on the bolts no longer changed between flights. The prop by the way is made of hard Mapel. I found that after checking the torque five times the torque didn't change. Now I check it about every 20 hours of flying time. Hope this helps the discussion Happy flying Parley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:25:04 -0800 From: "Parley T. Byington" Subject: Re: KR: epoxy I started using the Rand epoxie when I first started building N54PB there in Clearfield Utah. I quickly ran into allergic reaction problems with it. I switched to the Safety two epoxie from AS&S and never had any more problems. I was only able to use Rand epoxie on the tail feathers before having my skin crack and bleed evertime I looked at the stuff. As you can tell I don't recommend Rand epoxie. Hope this helps Parley Byington ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:42:05 EST From: MikeT nyc Subject: Re: KR: Fw: Kr2s prop. >For those of you who may be interested: I have a 52 X 48 Aymar-Demuth >prop on my KR-2 (N54PB). The manufacture instructed me over the phone >to torque the prop to 11 FT lbs and to check the torque after each >flight until the torque on the bolts no longer changed between flights. >The prop by the way is made of hard Mapel. > >I found that after checking the torque five times the torque didn't >change. Now I check it about every 20 hours of flying time. To use another bizarre analogy from motorcycles, this is also the recommended way to tighten heads, exhaust pipes, and other things on a bike that have deformable gaskets under them -- tightening to a moderate torque after each use eventually causes the gasket (or propeller, in this case) to assume its final thickness without initially putting too much stress on the threads. By contrast, the motorcycle factories when the bike was new tended to torque the part once, using a setting they knew would eventually turn out right after the gasket settled down, thus saving hours of labor during assembly or dealer prep at the cost of some extra initial strain on the threads. This philosophy may underly the specification in "Acceptable Methods," which assumes you're an A&P being paid by someone to install his propeller and he won't want to pay you to retorque it 4 or 5 times. "Acceptable" doesn't necessarily mean "ideal," but it does mean it'll work OK. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:36:28 -0600 From: brian whatcott Subject: Re: KR: Prop Torque At 18:02 3/11/98 +1300, you wrote: >Brian' > >No I didn't MISREMEMBER as you put it. >Ten pounds plus two pounds for pins. >Thats the way I was tought and thats the way I have done it for the last >twenty six years. >You are quoting fifteen to twenty four pounds. No obvious damage will be >done at twenty four pounds except for the thousands of little air pockets >you have probably destroyed in the crushing process. >ABSOLUTELY NO WAY should you tighten to twenty four on a wooden prop.But >then I have only been fitting props for twenty six years so will have to >bow to your obviously more extensive experiance. >Regards.............Dave > David.Stuart@xtra.co.nz > David, I'm interested by the strong divergence of your opinion from that of US prop makers and the FAA official position. That position is to be ruled by the prop maker's installation instructions. If you care to send me the contact details for the New Zealand Airworthiness authority ( I believe they generally follow the JARs ) I will pursue the official New Zealand position on your behalf. For lower power engines, this under torqueing is not a big problem. But with higher power engines, particularly those with smallish crank hubs, the US experience has been that the wood prop hub faces start to scorch which leads to drying and shrinkage. Sincerely, Whatcott Altus OK ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #52 ****************************