From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 1:21 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #87 krnet-l-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 087 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:34:32 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: (Building a) Trailer for KR's I have an old motorcycle trailer that I hope to convert for moving a project and eventually, my finished a/c. Looking at the dimension sheet included with the "S" plans, the distance from the nosegear to the mains is shown. The distance from the spinner tip to the firewall (or the nosegear ,mains, whatever) is missing. Anyone have this measurement available? Thanks! John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:40:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: kr elevator On Mon, 25 May 1998, eugene gargasz wrote: > has there ever a complete moving elevator instaled on a KR? What would > the result be,would there be better pictch control with less drag? How > much smaller could it be? I haven't heard much about the subject on > the net. > I am going to use a stabilator (full moving stabilizer) on my plane. THe Europa uses a stabilator in conjunction with an anti-servo tab. THe anti-servo tab is set up to deflect in the same direction as the stabilator movement. In this way you can use the anti-servo tab to fine tune the stick forces. If you want more stick force you increase the deflection ratio. The Europa IMHO is one of the best handling small planes with a very ballanced feel. When I get back home I will post several web sites that you can see the Europa under construction as well as the test flight documentation. This is one of the research and development areas that I would like to persue after we complete the wind tunneland spar tests. By the way, I am at the University of Illinois today and the AS5045 15% airfoil was mounted in the wind tunnel today. Tests start this afternoon. We are almost there! Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:36:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: kr elevator On Tue, 26 May 1998, Steven A Eberhart wrote: > On Mon, 25 May 1998, eugene gargasz wrote: > > > has there ever a complete moving elevator instaled on a KR? What would > > the result be,would there be better pictch control with less drag? How > > much smaller could it be? I haven't heard much about the subject on > > the net. > > > > I am going to use a stabilator (full moving stabilizer) on my plane. THe > Europa uses a stabilator in conjunction with an anti-servo tab. THe > anti-servo tab is set up to deflect in the same direction as the > stabilator movement. In this way you can use the anti-servo tab to fine > tune the stick forces. If you want more stick force you increase the > deflection ratio. > > The Europa IMHO is one of the best handling small planes with a very > ballanced feel. When I get back home I will post several web sites that > you can see the Europa under construction as well as the test flight > documentation. > You can get to Tony K's web page on the construction of his Europa. If you haven't seen it you need to spend some time surfing his web site! http://www.europa-aircraft.com/links/intro.html Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:30:08 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Trim Tab At 02:20 AM 5/26/98 EDT, you wrote: >In theory, this is a great idea. However, just looking at page 17 of the >plans, I see a problem that the front and back spars for the horizontal >stabilizer are VERY solidly mounted to the boat with plywood webs,.............>>> This has already been done,.. succesfully and by an aero engineer. See the pics of this slightly modified KR2 at: http://a51.wetworks.org/zuniga/wand01.JPG http://a51.wetworks.org/zuniga/wand02.JPG http://a51.wetworks.org/zuniga/wand03.JPG zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:03:08 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Trim Tab / Incidence changes. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------F8CA5785BCC09AD7AE87FB22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi KRNetters, One thing I realized this weekend while building my 1/4 scale KR-2S model is that when you change the incidence of the wing, you are effectively changing the angle of attack of the stabilizer, and the THRUST of the engine as well. If the stock KR-2 flies 2-3 degrees nose down, ( at low altitudes) that's down thrust, and also negative angle of attack on the stabilizer. My stabilizer mouting points are -2.5 degrees to the FIREWALL, which is where all measurements should be taken, not at the upper longeron. If you want to take a measurement at the longeron, you should pick a level area and mark it with the difference from the firewall, (which was -.5 degrees different,) and only use that spot. Because of the banana boat shape, every position on the longeron has a different angle. Also, if you widen your fuselage, that banana shape changes, and the incidence at the tail is different then. If you leave the rear of the fuse slightly bowed out ( I did because it seemed to be too hard to pull the sides in, AND it gave some more curve to an otherwise slab-sided fuselage) then your incidence at the stabilizer will be even more negative. Question: Isn't the necessity for excessive downward force (negative incidence) at the tail an indication that the CG is just too far forward? I think that the stabilizer incidence is designed to be 0 degrees (or 90 degrees, if you look in absolute terms,) to the firewall. Once the wing incidence is changed to .5 degrees (or 1 degree as I am doing), the downward thrust of the engine needs to be maintained, and the stabilizer needs more negative incidence. I'm building my 1/4 scale KR-2S with all the mods I want on my plane, including 1 degree incidence, 1 degree washout, 35% larger stab, 25% smaller elevators, 0 degree incidence at the stabilizer, 25% CG position. I can't bet the bank on the results, but it will be interesting to compare this model to other models I've flown in the past 15 years. - -Tom Outer Spars - --------------F8CA5785BCC09AD7AE87FB22 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Tom Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Tom n: ;Tom email;internet: tomkr2s@worldnet.att.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------F8CA5785BCC09AD7AE87FB22-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:27:45 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: N56ML project update NetHeads, I just posted an update which details the wing skin method that I used on the leading edge of my stub wings. There are also a few shots of the Ultimate Laser Blazer landing lights and the method I used to make the covers. It's at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmarkl.html. I'll do another one shortly. I ordered a digital camera today and it should be here by the weekend, so updates will be continuous, rather than waiting once a month or so to get a roll of film developed, or for me to have time to scan them. Now I'll be able to shoot a picture and publish it in minutes. I cheaped out and bought just about the most inexpensive one I could find, an Agfa ePhoto 307 from www.buycomp.com for a mere $197. It does 72 pictures at web resolutions, and 36 at 640 x 480, plenty for my purposes, before downloading. Digital finally came to within my budget. Now that pictures are free to create, I guess I should up my web site space from the 16 gigabytes I'm eating up now... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:20:31 -0000 From: "Brian J Bland" Subject: KR: Test Testing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:49:15 -0500 From: "Bob Sauer" Subject: KR: wing tip lights/strobes edwards@smithsys.net I am trying to find a source for an inexpensive wingtip and rear lite, also for small strobes to mount either to/bottom fuselage or single tail mount. Using Corvair 110HP engine based on FL manual. Anyone else going this route? Where can I get an aluminum fuel tank for under the front deck? Thanks, BOB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:44:21 -0500 From: "Bob Sauer" Subject: KR: Fw: wing tip lights/strobes - ---------- > From: Bob Sauer > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: wing tip lights/strobes > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 12:49 PM > > edwards@smithsys.net > > I am trying to find a source for an inexpensive wingtip and rear lite, also > for small strobes to mount either to/bottom fuselage or single tail mount. > > Using Corvair 110HP engine based on FL manual. Anyone else going this > route? > > Where can I get an aluminum fuel tank for under the front deck? > > Thanks, > > BOB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:14:38 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: wing incidence I wonder if anyone has considered that one possible outcome of a smaller wing incidence would be that the pilot would now see the nose higher and perceive that he is closer to a stall (and therefore be less likely to stall). Conversely, with the old incidence (3.5) the nose appears to be down while the AOA might be large and a pilot might be more likely to stall the plane. Whattayathink?? Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:21:30 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: trim tab or equivalent I like the idea of the whole elevator being the trim surface because you then have an (almost) unlimited amount of trim , but I presently don't have details on a proven system. I have seen a spring loaded trim system on a Glasair I that looked good and I am tempted to copy it. Then again, the old KR trim tab isn't too shabby (probably a little small). Anybody have details on a proven system? Bob Smith, Albany, NY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:33:38 EDT From: CHolder280@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Columbia, TN Gathering Hi, from Chattanooga. Columbia TN sounds great for me. I'll plan on attending. Thanks, Chuck, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:45:47 -0400 From: Kip Anderson Subject: KR: Subaru Engine Overheating A friend of mine has a Zenair Zodiac 601 with a Subaru NSI EA81 firewall forward package. He gets one trip around the pattern and has to land because of overheating. The radiator is in a belly mounted cowling which is used on other Zenairs. One other he has talked to is flying but running hot, with an out side air temp probably 30 degrees cooler than here in Florida. He has moved it back near the wing trailing edge, flown with and without the radiator cowling but with the same result, the temp keeps climbing and by the time he get back to the parking area it is boiling over into the expansion tank. He checked the air flow using a bee smoker and it appears to have good flow thorough the radiator. He removed the radiator yesterday and putting a garden hose in it and there was enough restriction that he could not hold the hose on the radiator. NSI is sending him a new aluminum radiator. Does any one have a Subaru NSI in a KR-2 and had an over heating problem? Any ideas? I am over hauling a Subaru to put in my future KR-2. ?#2 looking for the east coast New Letters, would like to be on the list to receive them. Kip Anderson Florida. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:07:09 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes I built my strobe lights from a kit,......schematics. All electronics can be purchased at Radio shack. IT's been so long that i have to hunt for the drawings. These strobes work well dual pulse flashing lights . I will email you that info as soon as i find it. The corvair engine ? never heard of that power plant in a kr2......sounds like it would work , just be careful of the weight of complete engine assembly. Reliability too! Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:24:55 -0000 From: "Brian J Bland" Subject: KR:Polyurethane glues For anyone interested in more information on the polyurethane glues discussed earlier might want to check the following out: http://www.gorillaglue.com/ http://www.excelglue.com/ Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK KR-2S@flight2000.com http://www.flight2000.com/hanger/KR-2S http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:29:42 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes I would be interested too, Joe John F. Esch KR-2SSW Salem, OR http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > I built my strobe lights from a kit,......schematics. All electronics > can be > purchased at Radio shack. IT's been so long that i have to hunt for > the > drawings. These strobes work well dual pulse flashing lights . I will > email > you that info as soon as i find it. > The corvair engine ? never heard of that > power > plant in a kr2......sounds like it would work , just be careful of the > weight > of complete engine assembly. Reliability too! > Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:45:51 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Subaru Engine Overheating > Does any one have a Subaru NSI in a KR-2 and had an over heating > problem? First of all, I don't have any first hand knowlege about NSI's, or certainly Soobs. But I did just finish reading an article in issue number 40 (Sept - Oct 97) of Contact magazine in which a guy details (over 7 pages) his trials and tribulations of trying to get the stock NSI setup to work in a Europa. His basic premise was that the NSI supplied radiator was so tiny that it never had a prayer of cooling his engine. It was also so densely packed that it wouldn't allow cooling air to pass thru it anyway. He ended up simply putting a larger radiator in it (after MUCH experimentation with ducts, etc) and solving his problem completely. Send me a fax number and I'll fax it to you. I keep hearing VW Rabbit radiators being mentioned with Subaru engines. You just can't get away from der VaterLand, can ya? Anybody that doesn't get Contact magazine is missing out on an invaluable auto engine conversion resource. Even just plain good old fashioned information on stuff like redrives, etc. Just read another article in the same issue by a guy who stuffed a 'Vette LT1 engine and redrive into a Lancair. Good stuff. It's $20 a year for six issues from 2900 East Weymouth, Tuscon, Arizona, 85716. Mick also wrote "Alternative Engines" which is excellent reading incorporating the best of the articles, but once you read them, you'll want all the rest too... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:52:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes At 10:07 PM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: > The corvair engine ? never heard of that power >plant in a kr2......sounds like it would work , just be careful of the weight >of complete engine assembly. Reliability too! > Joe > > There is a KR2 here in Southern California with a corvair engine. He started off with a reduction unit and the performance was marginal, he switched to direct drive and said it will do an honest 180mph (verified with GPS) flat out. That's not to shabby. He thinks he is making between 80 and 90 hp. Oh yeah,..the extra weight up front made the plane handle better too. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:55:55 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Subaru Engine Overheating At 09:45 PM 5/27/98 -0400, you wrote: He removed the radiator yesterday and putting a garden hose in it and there was enough restriction that he could not hold the hose on the radiator. NSI is sending him a new aluminum radiator. Does any one have a Subaru NSI in a KR-2 and had an over heating problem? Any ideas?>>>>>> You may want to try the stock radiator from a VW Rabbit. Its aluminum and has had a lot of success cooling Subaru conversions. I think it is the number one recommended radiator for areo Soobs. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:29:25 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes OK ...........look here for the electronic schematics.........sometime this week i will scan them.........Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:20:04 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: Subaru Engine Overheating A builder flew into our strip a few weeks back in a Zodiac. He recounted the problems with proper cooling for his NSI conversion. His testing proved relocating the radiator aft (just forward of the trailing edge if memory serves me correctly) would resolve his problems. Experience has shown this to be his true fix. I do not recall his mentioning any problems with the water flow. Hope this helps. John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Kip Anderson > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Subaru Engine Overheating > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 6:45 PM > > A friend of mine has a Zenair Zodiac 601 with a Subaru NSI EA81 firewall > forward package. > He gets one trip around the pattern and has to land because of > overheating. The radiator is in a belly mounted cowling which is used on > other Zenairs. One other he has talked to is flying but running hot, > with an out side air temp probably 30 degrees cooler than here in > Florida. He has moved it back near the wing trailing edge, flown with > and without the radiator cowling but with the same result, the temp > keeps climbing and by the time he get back to the parking area it is > boiling over into the expansion tank. He checked the air flow using a > bee smoker and it appears to have good flow thorough the radiator. He > removed the radiator yesterday and putting a garden hose in it and there > was enough restriction that he could not hold the hose on the radiator. > NSI is sending him a new aluminum radiator. > Does any one have a Subaru NSI in a KR-2 and had an over heating > problem? > Any ideas? > > I am over hauling a Subaru to put in my future KR-2. > > ?#2 looking for the east coast New Letters, would like to be on the > list to receive them. > > Kip Anderson > Florida. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:18:02 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Subaru Engine Overheating John Was this a yellow Zodiac? John John Bouyea wrote: > A builder flew into our strip a few weeks back in a Zodiac. He > recounted > the problems with proper cooling for his NSI conversion. His testing > proved relocating the radiator aft (just forward of the trailing edge > if > memory serves me correctly) would resolve his problems. Experience > has > shown this to be his true fix. I do not recall his mentioning any > problems > with the water flow. > > Hope this helps. > > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - building the spars > Hillsboro, Oregon > > ---------- > > From: Kip Anderson > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: KR: Subaru Engine Overheating > > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 6:45 PM > > > > A friend of mine has a Zenair Zodiac 601 with a Subaru NSI EA81 > firewall > > forward package. > > He gets one trip around the pattern and has to land because of > > overheating. The radiator is in a belly mounted cowling which is > used on > > other Zenairs. One other he has talked to is flying but running hot, > > > with an out side air temp probably 30 degrees cooler than here in > > Florida. He has moved it back near the wing trailing edge, flown > with > > and without the radiator cowling but with the same result, the temp > > keeps climbing and by the time he get back to the parking area it is > > > boiling over into the expansion tank. He checked the air flow using > a > > bee smoker and it appears to have good flow thorough the radiator. > He > > removed the radiator yesterday and putting a garden hose in it and > there > > was enough restriction that he could not hold the hose on the > radiator. > > NSI is sending him a new aluminum radiator. > > Does any one have a Subaru NSI in a KR-2 and had an over heating > > problem? > > Any ideas? > > > > I am over hauling a Subaru to put in my future KR-2. > > > > ?#2 looking for the east coast New Letters, would like to be on the > > > list to receive them. > > > > Kip Anderson > > Florida. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:33:59 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes Joe, I would also like a copy of your schematics for the lighting system. Rich McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction City, KS 66441 CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > I built my strobe lights from a kit,......schematics. All electronics can be > purchased at Radio shack. IT's been so long that i have to hunt for the > drawings. These strobes work well dual pulse flashing lights . I will email > you that info as soon as i find it. > The corvair engine ? never heard of that power > plant in a kr2......sounds like it would work , just be careful of the weight > of complete engine assembly. Reliability too! > Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:58:10 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > > I built my strobe lights from a kit,......schematics. All electronics > can be purchased at Radio shack. IT's been so long that i have to > hunt for the drawings. These strobes work well dual pulse flashing > lights . I will email you that info as soon as i find it. IIRC, you can build your own stobes, but they're only good for daylight use. To get your installation approved for night flight, you must use PMA'd strobes :( Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:57:53 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes OK Rich..........Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:57:05 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes I will scan the schematics of the homebuilt strobe lights. I will attach it to email so everyone here on the KR net can download it. Once I send it, I hope everyone can get a copy of these plans. If anyone has a better method for me to do it ......., let me know how Thanks, Joe Cruz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:33:05 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: KR: wind tunnel results Steve Any results yet from the wind tunnel? John F. Esch KR-2S (fuse almost ready to skin) http://www.cyberis.net/~sesch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:01:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes At 09:58 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >IIRC, you can build your own stobes, but they're only good for daylight >use. To get your installation approved for night flight, you must use >PMA'd strobes :( > >Patrick There is a Dragonfly sitting in my hanger that is certified for night flight and uses Radio Shack type strobes. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:24:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes At 08:01 PM 5/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:58 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >>IIRC, you can build your own stobes, but they're only good for daylight >>use. To get your installation approved for night flight, you must use >>PMA'd strobes :( >> >>Patrick > >There is a Dragonfly sitting in my hanger that is certified for night flight >and uses Radio Shack type strobes.>>>> As far as that goes I didn't think you even needed strobes to fly at night? I thought Nav lights and a beacon was all you needed? Did they change the rules on me again? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:38:38 -0000 From: "Brian J Bland" Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes >As far as that goes I didn't think you even needed strobes to fly at night? >I thought Nav lights and a beacon was all you needed? Did they change the >rules on me again? All the FAR's say is "Approved position lights" and "anticolission light"(beacon). No mention of strobes needed for night flight. Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK KR-2S@flight2000.com http://www.flight2000.com/hanger/KR-2S http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:40:27 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR:Polyurethane glues At 09:24 PM 5/27/98 -0000, you wrote: I am sitting here in amazement at how long this glue thread is going on and I thought I would add my 2 cents worth,..and yes that's about all its worth! :o) First of all I think you could use any kind of glue you want because anything will be stronger than the urethane foam! (Mike T, got that Elmers (TM) ready?) :o) The foam to wood bond doesn't have to be that strong guys. Second, what ever glue you use keep it at least 1/2 inch away from any surface you plan to sand afterwards. This will keep the hard spots from forming. Don't worry about a 100% contact area on the foam its not necessary! Third,...use a glue that dries as fast as you can stand. Nothing is worse than waiting on foam to dry so you can sand it! I used 5 minute epoxy from AS&S made by system 3. Works great! And finally my best piece of advice,....(drum roll please) Throw all that *&%^$@# urethane in the dumpster where it belongs and use polystyrene! WOO HOO!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:08:14 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes Patrick is correct in that by the letter of the law, the strobes must meet the same requirements for brightness and flash interval as the PMA'd strobes. Having said that, as an EAA Tech Counselor, I have seen many of the radio shack home built strobes that don't even come close to the brightness required approved for night flight during the FAA inspection. As with most things in these inspections, it is a crap shoot as to what will and what won't pass on any given day by any given inspector. My personal take on it is that there is a reason why the strobes are supposed to meet these standards and I prefer to meet those standards if possible. I know PMA'd strobes aren't cheap but they are pretty at night. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Thu, 28 May 1998 21:58:10 -0400 Patrick Flowers writes: >CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: >> >> I built my strobe lights from a kit,......schematics. All >electronics >> can be purchased at Radio shack. IT's been so long that i have to >> hunt for the drawings. These strobes work well dual pulse flashing >> lights . I will email you that info as soon as i find it. > >IIRC, you can build your own stobes, but they're only good for >daylight >use. To get your installation approved for night flight, you must use >PMA'd strobes :( > >Patrick >-- >Patrick Flowers >Mailto:patri63@ibm.net > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:06:01 -0000 From: "Brian J Bland" Subject: Re: KR:Polyurethane glues And finally my best piece >of advice,....(drum roll please) Throw all that *&%^$@# urethane in the >dumpster where it belongs and use polystyrene! WOO HOO!!! >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims I second this advice! Urethane doesn't belong on airplanes! :-) Proud member of the A.B.A.U.F (Aircraft Builders Against Urethane Foam in case you can't figure it out. ;-) ) Brian J. Bland Claremore, OK KR-2S@flight2000.com http://www.flight2000.com/hanger/KR-2S http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:29:00 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: foam and glassing Well now that my wings are glassed I feel like I can share with the rest of you what I found to work best using the hot wired polystyrene cores. The application of micro to the cores is a little unorthodox but its what eventually allowed me to wetout a perfect layup on my wings. After I cut out my cores and glued them to the spars I had to do a little touch up sanding to true th edges of the foam with the spar caps. I ended up with little gaps here and there and a few low spots. On the tops of the wings I applied dry micro to all the low spots and gaps, then slurried the entire core and then wetout the glass, all in one session. The results were not that great. It seems the dry micro absorbed some of the slurry and raw resin and then decided to settle down into the gaps and cracks a little more. This caused the micro to pull away from the cloth and leave little air gaps here and there. Later I was told by a LongEZ builder that my "dry" micro wasn't dry enough and that's why this occurred. Well on the bottoms of the wings I mixed up some very "dry" micro and filled all the little gaps and cracks and any dents in the foam caused by careless handling. I made sure it was very smooth before calling it a night. Yes I let the micro cure before applying the glass! Oh My God! :o) Mind you, this is only micro and not slurry, I would in no way recommend letting slurry dry before applying glass! And make sure you get the dry micro on so smooth it will not require any sanding. During the micro and slurry application I used masking tape on the spar caps to keep them clear or anything but pure resin and cloth. This worked out pretty good because when I removed the tape it pulled up a little of the wood dust and other non-desirables and left a nice clean dry wood surface. I used a paint brush to apply pure resin to the spar caps and around the outer edges of the layup before laying on the glass. I used peel ply all around the outside edges and if I had enough I would have peel plied the whole layup! Anyway needless to say the bottoms of my wings are really nice and the tops will require a little filler here and there. I really like the styrene cores and tri-ply cloth, I can walk on my wing anywhere I want, its really tough! As for amount of weight added with the blue foam and 16 oz cloth? I don't know yet but when I flip it back over I will weigh it and let yall know. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:23:27 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes The VHS strobe is lower in light output than commercial units, but it is also much cheaper, lighter, uses less power, and in the designers opinion, is more dependable and easier to repair than most commercial units. ( VISUAL FLIGHT SAFETY ) . I purchased these plans from visual flight safety in Silverdale, Washington. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:43:23 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: wing tip lights/strobes Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:01 PM 5/28/98 -0700, you wrote: > >At 09:58 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>IIRC, you can build your own stobes, but they're only good for > >>daylight use. To get your installation approved for night flight, > >>you must use PMA'd strobes :( > >> > >>Patrick > > > >There is a Dragonfly sitting in my hanger that is certified for > >night flight and uses Radio Shack type strobes.>>>> > > As far as that goes I didn't think you even needed strobes to fly at > night? I thought Nav lights and a beacon was all you needed? Did > they change the rules on me again? It's not the FAR's, but the current ACS&S catalog has a display on page 338 concerning this subject. Using this as a guide, the rules applying to anti-collision lighting have changed quite often and apparently apply by the date of the type certificate application. This, if true, once again demonstrates the screwy nature of the FAA certification system. It allows "new" 172's to be manufactured with 1950's lighting. As Jeff Scott said, this is the "letter of the law". What you actually get approved is between you and the DAR. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:15:36 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR:Polyurethane glues What about heat? Styrene has a very, very low melting point compared to urethane. (don't remember the numbers exactly but its something like 160F for styrene and 250F for urethane) I suppose this might only be a problem on a hot day in the desert. But... the EZ guys do use it and they live in the desert. Still sounds a bit marginal to me. Bob Smith Brian J Bland wrote: > And finally my best piece > >of advice,....(drum roll please) Throw all that *&%^$@# urethane in the > >dumpster where it belongs and use polystyrene! WOO HOO!!! > >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > >Micheal Mims > > I second this advice! Urethane doesn't belong on airplanes! :-) > > Proud member of the A.B.A.U.F (Aircraft Builders Against Urethane Foam in > case you can't figure it out. ;-) ) > > Brian J. Bland > Claremore, OK > > KR-2S@flight2000.com > http://www.flight2000.com/hanger/KR-2S > http://www.busprod.com/bbland/kr2s.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:59:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: wind tunnel results On Thu, 28 May 1998, John F. Esch wrote: > Steve > > Any results yet from the wind tunnel? > Early results are in, WE HAVE A WINNER. Met with Ashok and Dr. Selig yesterday and witnessed some of the oil flow visability testing where they put a trip strip on the airfoil and watch the airflow pattern represented by flourescent tinted oil on the wing. Insensitivity to kamakazi bugs on the leading edge was demonstrated. Cl max, and drag all look good. Saw Ashok's lift and drag polars for the 15% airfoil and they looked good. Ashok will be posting his report shortly after finishing this weekend. Steve - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:29:16 -0400 From: kim kroes Subject: KR: Re:Paint Removal Hello Netters, I am the proud owner of a KR2 in need of considerable repair (I'm sure it will amount to the 51% of a complete build!). I was told that there is a product out that the corvette guys are using to strip paint. Non of the body shops around here have heard of it and the guy at the paint store is afraid that anything he has may damage the fiberglass. Anyone out there able to shed some light on the best way to remove paint from a KR? Kim Kroes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:24:03 -0400 From: Kip Anderson Subject: Re: KR: Re:Paint Removal On paint removal from fiberglass I think the only method I have heard of is used on the B-2 Bomber wings because they have a special radar absorbing paint. It was in Aviation Week and it is a sand blasting using corn starch. Hope this is a starting point for your research. Kip kim kroes wrote: > Hello Netters, > > I am the proud owner of a KR2 in need of considerable repair (I'm sure it will > amount to the 51% of a complete build!). I was told that there is a product out > that the corvette guys are using to strip paint. Non of the body shops around > here have heard of it and the guy at the paint store is afraid that anything he > has may damage the fiberglass. Anyone out there able to shed some light on the > best way to remove paint from a KR? > Kim Kroes ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #87 ****************************