From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 10:10 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #93 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, June 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 093 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:15:48 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: water based pinhole filler? In a message dated 98-06-08 10:07:02 EDT, you write: << We had a discussion on fillers a while back (Tom's post reminded me). What's the name of the new water based pinhole filler that works miracles? I have some compound curves where I couldn't put peelply and I now have a healthy crop of pinholes to deal with. Mark Langford >> Mark, I believe Mike's post answered it but it is by poly-fiber and is called Smooth Prime. I found the rollers at Walmart to put it on with. They are 3" dense foam rollers and work great. Go to poly fibers web site at polyfiber.com and fill out the request for Flight Gloss A Better Composite Finishing System In 4 Easy Steps, they will send you a 34 instruction book in less than a week. Mike used their Super Fil and so have I, it is great for filling low spots and sands like no bodies business. AS&S sells the stuff (smooth prime) for $26.00 a quart. I believe this stuff is for real. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:26:42 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: vinyl ester/catalyst needed In a message dated 98-06-08 09:02:57 EDT, you write: << Today was my first experience with the stuff and I glassed the wingtips on my 1/4 scale KR-2S. I think it'll be a week before the tips harden! -Tom >> Tom, you can go back and apply a thin coat of properly (don't fry it) mixed resin on top of your tacky stuff and it will set up, including what is under it. Lay on some peel ply..............it'll work. Mark is right about the cat. & resin that AS&S supplies, you don't want to mix too much cat. as it will damn near cook the mixing bowl you have (little exaggeration). I did try the MEKP hardener that you can buy with the poly resin kits at your local discount store just to see what it would do. This solution is cut with something else and you have to add a bunch of it to make the vinyl ester set up, it was kind of a trial and error thing. It does not set up as fast but you can still sand the stuff in a day. I have not tried it on anything on the airplane so I cannot attest to it's use, but it will set up. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 15:57:01 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: water based pinhole filler? KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > Mark, I believe Mike's post answered it but it is by poly-fiber and is called Smooth Prime. I found the rollers at Walmart to put it on with. They are 3" dense foam rollers and work great. >>>> Dana, I plan to roll it on also just to keep overspray issues to a minimum. Did you find that it filled sanding marks and pin holes well? Also what color was Smooth Prime? I asked the guy at Poly Fiber today and he said it was white, that's pretty cool considering most composite birds end up white anyway. You may be able to save a little weight by applying only a light color coat over the primer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:17:35 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: N56ML update KRNetHeads, I put a little update out there at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmarkl.html which details the installation of the wing tank tops. Maybe tomorrow night I'll be glassing the tops of the stub wings... Something I've learned about the digital camera is that if you're used to scanning, the resolution of a digital camera usually isn't as high, even though it's the same 72 dpi. I guess that's because the scanner is capable of 600 dpi or more and "shoots the image down" to 72 dpi, rather than starting at 72 dpi. I'm still very happy with my $200 camera, and find myself shooting a "roll" of 36 a day, just to store away images of things like my wingtank guts, just in case I need to know what's in there some day... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:10:00 -0600 From: "gary" Subject: KR: GORILLA GLUE scource Maybe this was solved and I missed it but just in case this address will lead you to a supplier http://www.toolcribofthenorth.com In their Apr May catalog it is located on page 54. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:18:25 +0200 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: Re: KR: Aerolite vs T-88 ? Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > > Netters, > > I have been using TR-88 for all of the wood joints, and so far I have really > liked the stuff. I always try to get the ratio as close to 50/50 as > possible - usually using a syringe, and I test all of the joints (very > scientifically - usually a good stiff tug or twist.) The other day 2 joints > failed. This is the first time that this has happened. Kinda makes me wonder > about other joints. > > I thought that the strength of a T-88 joint was fairly independent of the > clamping pressure that is used. (Both of these joints were well coated with > epoxy but had very light clamping while they cured.) Does anybody else have > any experience with this? > > The other thing that I noticed is that there seems to be a reaction taking > place in the hardener syringe; a hazy region adjacent to the rubber plunger. > I wonder if this is the strength culprit? > > Dean > mailto:drdean@execpc.com Sorry if this is a repeat, but I cannot access to my archived KR-Mail to check if there is an answer to this question, because of a computer problem. What do you think about Aerolite vs T-88 or other modern stuff? I'll go start building my fuselage frame in a few weeks. Aerolite is very cheap, easy to prepare and to apply, has some structural properties (up to 1/32 gap), good wood penetration, light clamping pressure needed, you shuldn't worry about mixing ratio, and I can find it easily here in Italy. If there are no particular problems with this glue I think I'll use it. Ciao, Michele MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:23:42 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: water based pinhole filler?-long In a message dated 98-06-08 18:55:53 EDT, you write: << Dana, I plan to roll it on also just to keep overspray issues to a minimum. Did you find that it filled sanding marks and pin holes well? Also what color was Smooth Prime? I asked the guy at Poly Fiber today and he said it was white, that's pretty cool considering most composite birds end up white anyway. You may be able to save a little weight by applying only a light color coat over the primer. >> Mike, At S&F the head guy from Poly Fiber showed me the steps to apply smooth prime over composite finishes. He rolled the Smooth Prime (pinhole killer-WHITE) on using a 3-4" about 3/4 thick, dense foam roller, I saw them in the paint section of Walmart. I know this sounds small, and you would think it would take forever, but it goes on really nice. It is white, but it will not be totally white on your application until you have applied about 3 coats. You will not see the filling of the pinholes until about the third application. The material he used at S&F was pretty rough so I'm counting on it filling sanding trails. I can't say for sure, but I feel confident it will. He put on four thin coats as a first step. At this point he has not sanding anything yet. Let is dry now for a day. At this point you can come it with 280 or 320 grit dry paper. You should raise a nice cloud of chalky dust. The next step is the application of UV block. Once again they used their stuff called Silver Shield, I'm going to do this also. He did the same thing with this as the Smooth Prime and rolled it on. Three coat, light. Do not sand between coats as you will simply sand thru the light coats. After you have put on three coats come in lightly with 320 grit dry paper. Remember here is not the time to sand thru to your bare wings, you are just prepping for the next step. As an added cover, and this is where you could save on some paint weight, he came next with another two coats of Smooth Prime (white) just to fill in any imperfections from the UV and to give you a good sanding base prior to putting on the paint. Just buff it out with 320 just to get a good bond with the paint. You notice I mentioned dry sanding. You can wet sand, but you must wait at least two days before applying anything on top as this is all water based and it will take some time to dry. Also, it sounds like a lot of material but the mil thickness is the equal to two, possibly three spray coats of regular primer but you should not have to apply a thick paint application to get a quality finish. You should be able to make up for any weight here. An added bonus is that the carrier is water here, which evaporates leaving just the material present...........again less weight. I realize this is a new product on the market but from what I saw at S&F and by using their Super Fill, I thick it's the real deal. Boy, it sounds like I need to get a franchise here :-)), I'm already on 3M's Christmas card list from buying so $%@$@$ much sandpaper. Also Mike, this is one point I'll agree with whole heartedly,dumpsters and U-foam go together :-)). Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 11:42:54 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: vinyl ester/catalyst needed Thanks Dana, I'm going to try that on Friday if it doesn't harden. Where can I get peelply? Is there a simple, common material I could use in it's place? - -Tom KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-06-08 09:02:57 EDT, you write: > > << Today was my first experience > with the stuff and I glassed the wingtips on my 1/4 scale KR-2S. I think > it'll > be a week before the tips harden! > -Tom >> > Tom, you can go back and apply a thin coat of properly (don't fry it) mixed > resin on top of your tacky stuff and it will set up, including what is under > it. Lay on some peel ply..............it'll work. > Mark is right about the cat. & resin that AS&S supplies, you don't want to mix > too much cat. as it will damn near cook the mixing bowl you have (little > exaggeration). I did try the MEKP hardener that you can buy with the poly > resin kits at your local discount store just to see what it would do. This > solution is cut with something else and you have to add a bunch of it to make > the vinyl ester set up, it was kind of a trial and error thing. It does not > set up as fast but you can still sand the stuff in a day. I have not tried it > on anything on the airplane so I cannot attest to it's use, but it will set > up. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:11:38 EDT From: LngDistRep@aol.com Subject: KR: Rf and Strobe Projects Good afternoon to the KR group. Have been working on a KR-2 here in Orlando and very happy with my decision. While reviewing the material on the net I have been working on some electronics projects for the KR-2, in preparation for my completion of the project. One being an affordable strobe system and the other dealing with RF problems. Since I am not to the flying stage, I am looking for someone with RF problem to test out the RF filter that I have. It's free, the only thing I ask is some reporting on as to how the unit works. Like I said I have one to go to a good home. The filter is rated at 300wvdc with a 15 amp rating. If someone would like to test it, just let me know. This way I will be sure I am on the right track when the KR-2 here is ready. See you all in the blue yonder. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:32:56 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: peelply source Tom, You can buy peelply in rolls up to about 4 or 6" wide from Wicks, but by the yard (36" wide or more, I forget) from AS&S. One of the FEW things I can bring myself to order from AS&S except for vinyl ester resin, which Wicks doesn't sell either. Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:47:58 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: peelply source Having not used it yet, my understanding is that it is just polyester. am I wrong? Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm >From: "Mark Langford" >To: >Subject: KR: peelply source >Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:32:56 -0500 >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Tom, > >You can buy peelply in rolls up to about 4 or 6" wide from Wicks, but by the >yard (36" wide or more, I forget) from AS&S. One of the FEW things I can >bring myself to order from AS&S except for vinyl ester resin, which Wicks >doesn't sell either. > >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:26:31 -0700 (MST) From: Len Marinaccio Subject: Re: KR: Re: highway landing On Sun, 7 Jun 1998, Micheal Mims wrote: > .... my next hanger neighbor flew his Dragonfly for the > first time this morning ... > ....he said it flew great, hands off and the engine ran fine (except for > a little high CHT)! A friend of mine reported the same CHT problem with his Dragonfly (in fact, he grounded it for that reason). Any ideas why? Len (Trying to decide on a Dragonfly or a KR) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:06:00 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: peelply source > Having not used it yet, my understanding is that it is just > polyester. > am I wrong? It's dacron or polyester or something like that, but it has a release agent on it to make it peel off easier. I've heard of people going to the fabric shop and buying it cheaper, but it's only $2.30 a yard from AS&S anyway, and worth every penny when it comes time to fill pinholes... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:40:35 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: peelply source In a message dated 98-06-09 13:48:39 EDT, you write: << Having not used it yet, my understanding is that it is just polyester. am I wrong? >> Mark is right in that it is polyester. I have used both regular peelply and the stuff bought at the fabric shop or, here we go again, Walmart. Quick joke here, sorry guys....when I was flying young eagles Sat. one of the boys was flat out from the hills of Ky, as we were flying over my hometown (pop. 26,000) he asked if we could fly over "The Walmart", if Walmart ain't got it you don't need it :-)). Anyway the only difference is the release agent on peelply. You can leave it on for days and it will still peel off. In the fabric section they will have "dress liner" material, get the static free variety. It peels off better. I use the fabric stuff if I'm going to be around to peel the stuff off just as the resin sets up and I don't have any of the real stuff. Let the resin set up so that it is not tacky at all. If you leave the fabric stuff on overnight it will rip as you try and peel it off. Go by the fabric place and buy a couple of yards to try out. It will save you a world of sanding, just lay it on top of your layup and let if soak up the resin just like another layer of glass, you may even have to add a little resin to it in order to get it to wet out good. You'll be happy with the result. By the way it will also work with vinyl ester resin. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:35:55 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: KR: Re: GORILLA GLUE scource Hey Duane, I am glad to see that you are back safe and sound (I hope you had a good time with your family)..... I might have forgotten... but ... what did I wanted "Gorilla GLUE" for???? Thomas Gatliff GSE tgatliff@pro-trainer.com - -----Original Message----- From: gary To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 2:04 AM Subject: KR: GORILLA GLUE scource > > > >Maybe this was solved and I missed it but just in case >this address will lead you to a supplier >http://www.toolcribofthenorth.com > >In their Apr May catalog it is located on page 54. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:54:34 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: KR: Re: Re: GORILLA GLUE scource Please disregard... Opps... wrong gary...... :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Gatliff To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 7:25 PM Subject: KR: Re: GORILLA GLUE scource >Hey Duane, > >I am glad to see that you are back safe and sound (I hope you had a good >time with your family)..... > >I might have forgotten... but ... what did I wanted "Gorilla GLUE" for???? > >Thomas Gatliff >GSE >tgatliff@pro-trainer.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: gary >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 2:04 AM >Subject: KR: GORILLA GLUE scource > > >> >> >> >>Maybe this was solved and I missed it but just in case >>this address will lead you to a supplier >>http://www.toolcribofthenorth.com >> >>In their Apr May catalog it is located on page 54. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:25:23 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: KR: Carbon Fiber Netters, Did I miss something? During the last couple of weeks I have heard a couple of folks mention using carbon fiber on the wings. (Mark's website update for one.) Is this a single layer of carbon over the fiberglass or are we talking about a totally carbon wing. Mark - you talk about the carbon in case someone steps on the wing stub. Does a single layer do the trick; what about kevlar? Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:44:23 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Carbon Fiber Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > Did I miss something? During the last couple of weeks I have > heard a couple > of folks mention using carbon fiber on the wings. Dean, Sorry for the confusion, but I'm famous for overkill (we used 3/4" tongue and groove OSB for our roof sheathing, and 2 x 12's for rafters). I'm using two layers of 6 oz plain weave carbon fiber for the whole stub wing for wingwalk purposes and for a little safety, since my fuel tanks are in the wings. And the trailing edge of the AS5046 starts getting a little thin at the tip. I'll probably just use the regular KR glass on the outer wings, except I'll use carbon fiber on my ailerons and flaps for the increased stiffness. This is one place where I can go overboard and it won't cost me any weight, just cubic dollars. Kevlar is certainly tough enough, but not as stiff. And you gotta buy those special scissors... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 21:56:13 -0500 From: "ronald.freiberger" Subject: RE: KR: Aerolite vs T-88 ? Mike, What I remember (hazily) is that it almost killed Hugh Cunningham's dog; Chirrosis of the liver (?). I may be wrong, but read the ventilation notes. None of these things are good on your Ice Cream. Ron Freiberger - -----Original Message----- From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com] On Behalf Of Michele Bucceri Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 3:18 AM To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: Aerolite vs T-88 ? Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > > Netters, > > I have been using TR-88 for all of the wood joints, and so far I have really > liked the stuff. I always try to get the ratio as close to 50/50 as > possible - usually using a syringe, and I test all of the joints (very > scientifically - usually a good stiff tug or twist.) The other day 2 joints > failed. This is the first time that this has happened. Kinda makes me wonder > about other joints. > > I thought that the strength of a T-88 joint was fairly independent of the > clamping pressure that is used. (Both of these joints were well coated with > epoxy but had very light clamping while they cured.) Does anybody else have > any experience with this? > > The other thing that I noticed is that there seems to be a reaction taking > place in the hardener syringe; a hazy region adjacent to the rubber plunger. > I wonder if this is the strength culprit? > > Dean > mailto:drdean@execpc.com Sorry if this is a repeat, but I cannot access to my archived KR-Mail to check if there is an answer to this question, because of a computer problem. What do you think about Aerolite vs T-88 or other modern stuff? I'll go start building my fuselage frame in a few weeks. Aerolite is very cheap, easy to prepare and to apply, has some structural properties (up to 1/32 gap), good wood penetration, light clamping pressure needed, you shuldn't worry about mixing ratio, and I can find it easily here in Italy. If there are no particular problems with this glue I think I'll use it. Ciao, Michele MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:16:32 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Carbon Fiber At 09:44 PM 6/9/98 -0500, you wrote: <<<< I'm using two layers of 6 oz plain weave carbon fiber for the whole stub wing for wingwalk purposes and for a little safety, since my fuel tanks are in the wings. >>>> I bought two yards of carbon fiber for my ailerons. After helping one of the EZ builders make his strakes out of carbon I fell in love with the stuff! Its awesome that's for sure but the price is almost ridiculous. I think its about $28 a yard. If I had BIG bucks to spend I would definitely build everything out of 5.7 oz carbon just to save weight. Maybe next time! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:37:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: RE: Carbon Fiber On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Micheal Mims wrote: > At 09:44 PM 6/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > <<<< I'm using two layers of 6 oz plain weave carbon fiber for the whole > stub wing for wingwalk purposes and for a little safety, since my fuel tanks > are in the wings. >>>> > > I bought two yards of carbon fiber for my ailerons. After helping one of the > EZ builders make his strakes out of carbon I fell in love with the stuff! > Its awesome that's for sure but the price is almost ridiculous. I think its > about $28 a yard. If I had BIG bucks to spend I would definitely build > everything out of 5.7 oz carbon just to save weight. Maybe next time! Ditto on the carbon fiber. I used the BID on the NLF(1)0115 wind tunnel model, the one that never flew. THe AS5045 and AS5048 wings were made with 8 layers of $18 yard UNI. If you are going to have two or more layers of carbon I think the cheaper UNI is a good choice. It also makes the joining laps easier. For UNI you just have to butt up against the adjoining cloth. For BID you have to overlap the joint. After you have used carbon fiber it is hard to go back. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:18:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: new website pics Yall need to get over to Jebs website, looks like he has some new pics up! http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:37:50 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Supersonic Prop Tips Hi KRNetters, Does anyone know whether the speed of sound goes up or down at higher altitudes, like about 8,000' MSL? I would think that if it goes up, prop tips could run at a higher TAS than at sea level, meaning a higher RPM than at sea level. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:39:35 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Rf and Strobe Projects LngDistRep@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for someone with RF problem > to test out the RF filter that I have. It's free, the only thing I ask is some > reporting on as to how the unit works. Like I said I have one to go to a good > home. > > The filter is rated at 300wvdc with a 15 amp rating. > > If someone would like to test it, just let me know. This way I will be sure I > am on the right track when the KR-2 here is ready. > > Paul, I'm your man. I have just the noise problem you are looking for. And I am close too! Tom Crawford 7612 NW 172nd. St. Alachua, FL 32615 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:32:48 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Supersonic Prop Tips Tom Andersen wrote: > > Hi KRNetters, > Does anyone know whether the speed of sound goes up or down at higher > altitudes, like about 8,000' MSL? Sonic velocity decreases with a decrease in pressure and density. At altitude, the speed of sound is lower. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:53:16 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Wire Size Electric Heads: I know I should check the plans first but thought I would ask just in case this info isn't covered in the plans. What gauge wire should I plan to use for the following: Radio Nav Lights Strobe Lights Landing Lights (auto driving lights) Instrument Post lights Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:00:51 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Wire Size It all depends on the current draw of each device. I'll try to forward a chart showing acceptable current ranges for each wire gauge. >Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:53:16 -0700 >From: Micheal Mims >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: Wire Size >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Electric Heads: I know I should check the plans first but thought I >would ask just in case this info isn't covered in the plans. What gauge >wire should I plan to use for the following: > >Radio > >Nav Lights > >Strobe Lights > >Landing Lights (auto driving lights) > >Instrument Post lights > > >Thanks! > Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:20:31 EDT From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: Props... KRNetters: This was on the quickie list and IMHO worth sharing as food for thought. Randy Stein Flames to my CyberNomex mail box: BSHADR@aol.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Subj: Re: Q-LIST: Revmaster props Date: 98-06-10 08:46:15 EDT From: msusa@ioa.com (Materials Sourcing USA) Hello David: Yes I am very happy with the Aymar-Demuth prop. It is very smooth and climb performance is great. The other evening I took off from Asheville, Fld Elev = 2150', density altitude was 4l00', climb out at 90 mph was 700 fpm. The next time I go to the airport I will check the laminations. Yes, this prop is right off the shelf. I did talk with Mike Demuth the other day to tell him how it was performing. He said if I wanted to get another 6-8mph he could cut a couple inches off the prop and get the rpm up to around 3400. Of course, the faster it runs, the noisier it will be and the more gas it gulps. Wear and tear probably goes up as well. I will probably just leave well enough alone. 150mph TAS isn't so bad. I have found Mike a very cooperative guy. He will talk your leg off, but he has a lot of experience with VW engines and of course props. He is willing to work with you on whatever type of performance you want from you prop. He is quick to tell me that different planes will see different performance from the same prop depending on how the plane is built and rigged. Makes sense. I ordered mine about 14 months ago, but didn't take delivery until last August. I chose to do the initial flights with the Cowley to see what performance was so I could compare to the Demuth prop. At that time the cost was $425. Some think that is high, but after spending all the money we have and the time, why not have a good prop. Take care, I'll get back to you on the laminations. Jerry Marstall. 828-681-8404 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:14:31 -0400 From: smithr Subject: Re: KR: Aerolite vs T-88 ? An old, experienced airplane builder friend of mine uses aerolite to join most wood joints. He thinks it is the best. I have had no experience with aerolite but can say that I am not impressed with the wood penetration depth that I get using T88 on my KR2S. Bob Smith Michele Bucceri wrote: > Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > > > > Netters, > > > > I have been using TR-88 for all of the wood joints, and so far I have really > > liked the stuff. I always try to get the ratio as close to 50/50 as > > possible - usually using a syringe, and I test all of the joints (very > > scientifically - usually a good stiff tug or twist.) The other day 2 joints > > failed. This is the first time that this has happened. Kinda makes me wonder > > about other joints. > > > > I thought that the strength of a T-88 joint was fairly independent of the > > clamping pressure that is used. (Both of these joints were well coated with > > epoxy but had very light clamping while they cured.) Does anybody else have > > any experience with this? > > > > The other thing that I noticed is that there seems to be a reaction taking > > place in the hardener syringe; a hazy region adjacent to the rubber plunger. > > I wonder if this is the strength culprit? > > > > Dean > > mailto:drdean@execpc.com > > Sorry if this is a repeat, but I cannot access to my archived KR-Mail to > check if there is an answer to this question, because of a computer > problem. > > What do you think about Aerolite vs T-88 or other modern stuff? > > I'll go start building my fuselage frame in a few weeks. Aerolite is > very cheap, easy to prepare and to apply, has some structural properties > (up to 1/32 gap), good wood penetration, light clamping pressure needed, > you shuldn't worry about mixing ratio, and I can find it easily here in > Italy. > > If there are no particular problems with this glue I think I'll use it. > > Ciao, > Michele > > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB > Michele Bucceri > E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it > MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:48:18 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Aerolite vs T-88 ? smithr wrote: > > An old, experienced airplane builder friend of mine uses aerolite to join most wood joints. He thinks it is the best.>>> Key words in this statement are "old, experienced airplane builder" and "aerolite". Has he even tried any glue made within the last decade? :o) T88 is not thin enough to penetrate deeply into the wood, for that matter I am not sure that deep penetration by the glue is that important. The method used to build the KR fuselage allows for almost any type of glue because of all the contact surface. Almost any glue will be stronger than the wood your gluing. I will stick with an EPOXY based system because it is strong, fuel proof and easy to work with. Your results may vary! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:04:26 CST From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: KR: Re: 63005 coordinates G'Day Mark The only reference I have for wing profile data is Theory of Wing Sections. I would like to evaluate it for vert. stabilizer. Perhaps others would too. Any chance you could throw them onto the net. Rex Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:26:18 -0400 From: "Griffing, Bruce F (CRD)" Subject: RE: KR: Alternator noise Bobby- Either side of the capacitor is ok - as long as it is in series. That way a shorted capacitor will blow the fuse and everything will keep going. Bruce > ---------- > From: Bobby Muse[SMTP:bmuse@mindspring.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 1998 8:33 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: RE: KR: Alternator noise > > At 11:22 AM 6/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Bobby- > > Since you like the capacitor solution I suggest that you > >put a fuse in series with it. That won't add much weight. > > Bruce > > > > > > Sounds like a reasonable idea. But which side of the capacitor needs to be > fused. > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:49:09 -0400 From: "Griffing, Bruce F (CRD)" Subject: RE: KR: Alternator noise Bobby- I looked at the page that Mike found. What is described there is exactly the type of trap I recommended. I think you can find the same type of thing cheaper at a ham radio store - one set up for a car alternator. Many hams use mobil transmitters and need this sort of thing. By the way, when I used the word heavy in my original message I meant heavy current carrying capacity - not heavy in pounds. Note that the traps on the web page are rated in terms of current. Bruce > ---------- > From: Bobby Muse[SMTP:bmuse@mindspring.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 1998 2:00 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: RE: KR: Alternator noise > > At 06:53 AM 6/7/98 -0700, you wrote: > >At 11:32 PM 6/6/98 -0800, you wrote: > >>Bobby, if it shorts, it will be like a straight wire connection across the > >>terminals, so it doesn't really matter; the fuse will catch it regardless, > >>but I would go with the positive. > >> > >>Robert Covington > >> > > > >For those of you out there who are electrically impaired and would just > >rather spend the money on a unit designed to get rid of radio noise try this > >web site: > > > >http://cust.iamerica.net/Lsa/ > > > >and look at the eliminator on page: > > > >http://cust.iamerica.net/Lsa/eliminator.htm > > > >What do you tweaks (name used to describe avionics people in the USMC) > >think? Will it work? > > >Micheal Mims > > > Thanks for the info. > > That filter may work for us. After or if some of the electrical engineers > on the net have blessed it, I would like to try it especially since I'm > getting ready to add strobes to my KR that could add more noise in the radio. > > What I have works but I do agree with Bruce's concerns in the long run. > > > > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:11:01 +0200 From: aabbcc01@infonie.fr Subject: KR: airfoil drawing hi, i feel the RAF48 airfoil drawn inside the plan of kr2s is very poor quality that decided me to make a new RAF48 airfoil drawing. but i'm not satisfied because i don't get a harmonius shape specially around the place of trailing edge. i will want to know if ever it's normal or if there's some people can tell me how to get a perfect drawing of this airfoil. thank you ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:35:42 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: airfoil drawing aabbcc01@infonie.fr wrote: > > hi, > > i feel the RAF48 airfoil drawn inside the plan of kr2s is very poor quality that decided me to make a new RAF48 airfoil drawing.>>> The drawing on the plans has flown over 1000 (different aircraft) times though. So I guess its safe to say that drawing is good enough. The RAF48 is an old turbulent airfoil and my guess is that its not that picky! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: airfoil drawing On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Micheal Mims wrote: > aabbcc01@infonie.fr wrote: > > > > hi, > > > > i feel the RAF48 airfoil drawn inside the plan of kr2s is very poor quality that decided me to make a new RAF48 airfoil drawing.>>> > > The drawing on the plans has flown over 1000 (different aircraft) times > though. So I guess its safe to say that drawing is good enough. The > RAF48 is an old turbulent airfoil and my guess is that its not that > picky! > You can get some info about the RAF48 at http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~ashok/kr2/airfoils/ There is also a link to Mark Langfords page that has a set of RAF48 coordinates that were derived from the drawings but smoothed mathematically. Ashok ran the massaged RAF48 coordinates through XFOIL and the lift drag polars are displayed for the RAF48. The normal disclamers apply here. THe only authorized source for the RAF48 airfoil profile is the Rand Robinson KR plans. Anything else is not recognized by them. But several of us are using the new airfoils developed at the University of Illinois specifically for KR class aircraft. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:10:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Glues and Epoxies Netters, for some odd reason I was surfing the RR site and noticed that T88, Areopoxy or EZ-Poxy is now listed in the build of materials kits for the KR2S. So that's T-88 for wood applications and either of the epoxies for fiberglass work. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 714.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #93 ****************************