From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 10:10 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #97 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 097 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:26:44 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Re: elevator hinges Tom (and fellow net'ers) I pulled the invoice for the bearings. The source is actually Wicks, part # 01-FF303-01. The pricing may have changed, but they are easy to work with; I friction fit mine into the hinge stock. Do be careful as they can be compressed easily. See the archives http://kr2s.timnerline.com/krnet/default.htm for warnings about reaming oil impregnated bushings. hope this helps! bou John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Tom Andersen > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: elevator hinges > Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 7:21 AM > > John, > What is the part number for the o*lite bearings from AS&S? I want to use them > on my hinges. > -Tom > > John Bouyea wrote: > > > Haris > > > > I mentioned previously that Van's recalled such material when they supplied > > it to their builders. I just purchased a partially completed project KR2 > > with the RR supplied hinges. It appears to have the same hinge kit you > > have described. Good enough for RR -> good enough for everyone else? I > > don't plan on discarding these parts. > > > > I built the hinges for my KR2S project and found out about the non-radiused > > material after the fact. I built 4 hinges for the elevator and 3 for the > > rudder using the bearing material AS&S describes as oilite. The extra > > hinges cost me about 40 grams plus the attaching AN hardware. I figure > > this is good enough for me... > > > > John Bouyea > > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > > kr2s - building the spars > > Hillsboro, Oregon > > > > ---------- > > > From: HAshraf@aol.com > > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > > Subject: KR: elevator hinges > > > Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 7:23 PM > > > > > > Sorry to resurrect a twice dead horse. I have a set of rudder and > > elevator > > > hinges that I bought from RR. They are made of extruded Al that has sharp > > > corners. I had mentioned this to Mike Mims and he even posted it on the > > net > > > but that did not evoke any response. > > > > > > I need to make a decision to have a new set made with the proper material > > or > > > use the one I have. Any suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Haris > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:42:33 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks Mike, I know for a fact that C152's have no header tank, only a t fitting where both wing tanks join. They seem to have equal fuel draw from both tanks with only gravity feed. In my post to Larry, I can readily see problems with long wing tanks that reach out almost to the tips of the wings. The only remaining question in my mind is whether I will get equal flow from both stub tanks, since the pump will be SUCKING fuel from two tanks through a four-position valve set to BOTH, rather than being gravity fed to a four-way valve set to BOTH. I can see that on a high wing plane, drawing from both tanks simultaneously would equal out the tanks naturally due to the increased head pressure from a tank with more fuel than the other. I'm not confident this would occur with stub tanks because there is no gravity pressure, except maybe for the actual height of the tanks to create any gravity feed to the selector valve. I'm real interested in how the Piper low-wings route their fuel systems. Thanks for the info on the facet pumps, Everyone! I think I'll end up with three, two for cross-flow and one for boost pump duty. - -Tom Micheal Mims wrote: > At 08:50 PM 6/15/98, you wrote: > >For Jeff, what was it the pilot at your field disliked about wing tanks? > >If there is something I should know , please tell me. I've never heard > >a Cessna, Piper, Bonanza, Rockwell, Mooney, Ercoupe, etc. driver > >say they wished they had their fuel in the cockpit !!!!!!! > > > > I think it was me that said a pilot at my field dis-liked his tanks. The > biggest concern was that they caused wing heaviness with very little fuel > level difference and the other thing was he felt they caused erratic roll > control during banking and strange pitching moments when accelerating and > decelerating. Although if he was making a coordinated turn the fuel should > stay in the same place as level flight. He has two baffles installed in > each tank. He also felt he could lighten his airplane by 40 pounds by > going to the stock RR header tank. > > PS Cessnas, Pipers, and Ercoupes have header tanks I think. :o) Not sure > about the others. > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:48:19 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks At 11:42 PM 6/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >I know for a fact that C152's have no header tank, only a t fitting where both wing tanks join. They seem to have equal fuel draw from both tanks with only gravity feed. Sorry I was thinking about the real Cessnas, 206, 207 , 210 not the toy! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:18:25 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: pickup location in stub wing tanks/sumps Mark, I think my RAF 48 stub wing bottoms while at cruise will be a little higher in the rear, but I think I'll leave the pickup in the rear so as to insure there is plenty of fuel for the end-of-the-day aborted landing climbouts. I'm concerned about descents though, with the pickup at the rear. Once I almost crashed in a Tri-Pacer because the fuel ran to the front of the tank on short final over some trees. The PIC switched tanks after a few seconds of wondering what the hell is causing that funny noise, and the engine came back on. No BOTH selection in a Tri-Pacer, so the fuel management is a constant necessary chore, one thing more to do wrong or neglect. I think I'm trying to create a stub fuel tank with zero unusable fuel, and that's not possible with wing tanks. Maybe if I slanted the floor an inch spanwise, to simulate dihedral in the wing stub, I would actually gain more usable fuel than flat floors, and also create a sump effect, like a RR header tank has in the middle. What if I sacrificed two gallons worth of fuel area to make slanted bottoms to the inside rear corner? I don't think you could confidently fly with two gallons in a wing stub tank in all flight regimes anyway. I haven't figured what it would cost in fuel space, but like you said Mark, the RAF48 has room for 24 gallons of fuel in the stub wings( minus room for the cables and baffles, of course). That's plenty of space to work with, don't you think? All I want is about 8 gallons each, and I'd settle for 7 each. - -Tom Do you guys come up with ideas in the middle of the day? It seems my subconscious mind is constantly working on these problems. Mark Langford wrote: > Tom, > > My fuel pickup is located in the middle of the wing, at the lowest point > while at cruise (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/wingtank.gif). I was > able to do that because the NLF airfoil slopes up towards the trailing edge > at an angle that approaches the angle that the plane stalls at. For this > reason, my pickup is submerged at cruise or climb. But just for insurance, > I built in a little "dam" (see the above picture) to catch more fuel when in > climb, certainly enough for a good climbout. I also built a "trap door" > from a piano hinge which allows fuel in but not out of my little "header > within the tank" area which will help compensate for sloppy flying (ball not > centered) or mild aerobatics. See > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmarkl.html (the update) and the "Wingtank" > area for more pictures and explantions... > > I've used a Facet pump in all my Weber powered VWs for the last 25 years, > and only had one fail, but it happens. I'm using one in this plane as a > transfer pump only. I believe they usually put out about 5 psi. My real > fuel pump for the CIS will be a Bosch, which fails gradually with lots of > warning. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:33:11 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking > For those building header tanks, make sure you clamp down the line > somewhere before the firewall and then install a pull-apart between > there and the firewall. One KR accident report related a KR making > a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. > the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot > with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. All,This is my nightmare with that RR fiberglass header tank. One spark, and you'd be dead, even if you made a landing you could walk away from. Let's see, where can we get sparks on an airplane. How about a chock-full instrument panel with lots of 12v wiring, placed right next to 12 gallons of gasoline? The lines going into fiberglass tanks are FLOXED into place, and this is too weak for any abuse at all. No fuel in the cockpit for me, no way. I'd prefer it to leak out onto the ground, or into the air. I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in aluminum or glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't mean that's the best design for everyone. - -Tom Flameproof suit on order. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:38:22 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks I don't consider those to be CESSNA's, those are nice airplanes. Gotta love those airtrucks that could haul several KR-2's around INSIDE. Micheal Mims wrote: > At 11:42 PM 6/15/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Mike, > >I know for a fact that C152's have no header tank, only a t fitting where > both wing tanks join. They seem to have equal fuel draw from both tanks > with only gravity feed. > > Sorry I was thinking about the real Cessnas, 206, 207 , 210 not the toy! :o) > > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:45:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking At 12:33 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which >don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in aluminum or glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't mean that's the best design for everyone. >-Tom Your right about designs for everyone but then again you could be way over cautious here. There are plenty of certified planes with fuel in the fuselage and not in the wings. How about a Beaver or Otter? There's about 100 to 150 gallons of fuel right under everyone's feet! But then again you have to build it to make YOU happy and no one else. I am happy with my Ercoupe style system and I am sure it will work great! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:04:07 -0700 From: "Gary Lee" Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking If I remember right the Ercoupes had vents in all three tanks, Forney had a vented cap on the fuselage and the two wing tanks had internal vents to the header tank, I think Alon and Money went the same route as Forney. - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 9:50 PM Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking >At 12:33 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which >>don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in >aluminum or glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't >mean that's the best design for everyone. >>-Tom > >Your right about designs for everyone but then again you could be way over >cautious here. There are plenty of certified planes with fuel in the >fuselage and not in the wings. How about a Beaver or Otter? There's about >100 to 150 gallons of fuel right under everyone's feet! But then again you >have to build it to make YOU happy and no one else. I am happy with my >Ercoupe style system and I am sure it will work great! >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:04:16 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: Re: Fuel Pumps I don't know a lot about fuel pumps but the electric fuel pump on my VW Golf (1985) lasted 250,000 miles with no trouble. Also made a sound that would be heard over engine noise. Haris Ashraf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:09:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: a web site for you VWers http://www.turbocity.com/VW/vw.html zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:17:38 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: pickup location in stub wing tanks/sumps Tom Andersen wrote: >What if I sacrificed two gallons worth of fuel area to >make slanted bottoms to the inside rear corner? Sounds good to me. I thought about doing the same thing, and would have except that I was already low on tank span due to my widened fuselage and four inch gap between the fuselage and inside plywood rib. I'm venting my tanks like Mike says the Ercoupe does it, but I didn't know it'd been done that way before. The right tank is the header tank, with the left tank feeding it. The right tank is vented back to the left tank (1/4" line) and the left tank is vented with a 3/8" line. That way there are no heavy valves (I bought one, but it's so heavy I couldn't bring myself to carry it around) or higher pilot load. Fuel always comes from the right tank. If it gets low or the plane gets out of roll trim, just shoot some from the left tank to the right tank. A sort of freebie trim system (with limitations of course). And if I screw up and pump too much to the right tank, it flows through the vent back to the left tank. I also installed a drain in the trailing edge of each tank to deal with water, although I must confess my cars have never gotten an appreciable amount of water in the tanks over the years, and I'll be a lot more careful about the fuel I put in the plane (car gas through a filter). Haris is right about the Rabbit CIS fuel pumps lasting forever. That's what I plan to use for my CIS injection. They fail slowly and give plenty of warning time. The rest of you guys can't use them though, since they put out about 70 psi though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:34:46 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: Re: KR: Re: elevator hinges Nice going eh? I miss-spelled my own link. Sorry folks! To access the digests, try using http://kr2s.timberline.com/krnet/default.htm instead. John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars & kr2 - assessing the progress to date Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:18:24 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking Mike, I like the way the CG moves forward as fuel burns off, the increased storage space up front, as well as the safety aspects of having no fuel in the cockpit. I have to use a pump with an Ellison EFS-2 anyway because the EFS-2 needs at least 0.5 PSI, or 20 inches of vertical distance from the last gallon in the tank to the unit. Since the unit gets mounted on the top of the engine, that will never be available, in fact, ony a few inches of head will ever be available. It won't feed via gravity feed should both pumps fail, so gravity feed isn't a feasible design goal even for a header tank in my case. Two pumps, a mechanical engine-driven pump and an electrical pump are recommended by Ellison. See http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/faqs/gravity_system.htm for details. This has been a good topic. - -Tom Micheal Mims wrote: > At 12:33 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which > >don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in > aluminum or glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't > mean that's the best design for everyone. > >-Tom > > Your right about designs for everyone but then again you could be way over > cautious here. There are plenty of certified planes with fuel in the > fuselage and not in the wings. How about a Beaver or Otter? There's about > 100 to 150 gallons of fuel right under everyone's feet! But then again you > have to build it to make YOU happy and no one else. I am happy with my > Ercoupe style system and I am sure it will work great! > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:23:20 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Turbochargers Netters, I ran across this site which sells every kind of turbocharger and turbocharger rebuild kit. http://www.turbocity.com/Index.html I really like the color photos of each turbo unit, and they also sell the Turbocharging book by Hugh MacInnes, required reading for turbo users. My copy is on order. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:58:46 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: pickup location/leading edge tanks Mark, It occurred to me that there would be some space ahead of the main spar in the RAF48 stub wing for additional fuel. Could you run that in your CAD program and estimate, based on 1/2" thick foam leading edge, how much fuel that space can hold? The gear would take up a bunch of that space, but there's still probably 3 gallons each side after sufficient baffles for the gear. This space could be linked to the stub tank by routing a few 1/4" lines under the spar, and two 3/4" tubes through the spar webs. If I fit some fuel ahead of the spar, I would have hardly any CG change at all as the fuel burns off. - -Tom Mark Langford wrote: > Tom, > > My fuel pickup is located in the middle of the wing, at the lowest point > while at cruise (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/wingtank.gif). I was > able to do that because the NLF airfoil slopes up towards the trailing edge > at an angle that approaches the angle that the plane stalls at. For this > reason, my pickup is submerged at cruise or climb. But just for insurance, > I built in a little "dam" (see the above picture) to catch more fuel when in > climb, certainly enough for a good climbout. I also built a "trap door" > from a piano hinge which allows fuel in but not out of my little "header > within the tank" area which will help compensate for sloppy flying (ball not > centered) or mild aerobatics. See > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmarkl.html (the update) and the "Wingtank" > area for more pictures and explantions... > > I've used a Facet pump in all my Weber powered VWs for the last 25 years, > and only had one fail, but it happens. I'm using one in this plane as a > transfer pump only. I believe they usually put out about 5 psi. My real > fuel pump for the CIS will be a Bosch, which fails gradually with lots of > warning. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:35:13 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: a web site for you VWers Thanks Mike! I found a whole bunch of info on turbos for my DDTS! I ordered the book Turbocharging by Hugh MacInnes, and found a source for every possible turbo I could ever want, plus a bunch of diagrams and tips for turbo installs. TURBO TURBO TURBO TIME - -Tom DDTS ALL THE WAY!! Micheal Mims wrote: > http://www.turbocity.com/VW/vw.html > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:39:31 EDT From: KRkip@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: fuel pump mounting Hi Kr netters a word to the wise here about mounting your fuel pump. I don,t think that mounting it on the bottom of the fues tank is a good idea if you are planing to use a facet pump. I am using one on my KR to transfer fuel from my wing tanks to my header tank and have it mounted under the seat. I have had to isolate it with rubber mounts because when it is running it produces a lot of vibration and it will probably crack anything that it is mounted solidly to after a short period of time. So far i have had no problem with mine and it has seen alot of use in the last 3 years. KR Kip Kip Lounsbury Lincoln Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:07:50 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: KR: RE: Re: Thunder Mustang Accident Heres the NTSB Report for the Thunder Mustang Accident.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NTSB Identification: SEA98FA083 Accident occurred MAY-30-98 at MARSING, ID Aircraft: PAPA 51 LTD., CO. THUNDER MUSTANG, registration: N151TM Injuries: 2 Fatal. On May 30, 1998, approximately 1230 mountain daylight time, an experimental PAPA 51 Thunder Mustang, N151TM, impacted the terrain about six miles south of Marsing, Idaho. The commercial pilot and his passenger, who held a private pilot certificate, both received fatal injuries, and the aircraft was destroyed. The personal pleasure flight, which was being conducted to demonstrate the performance capabilities of the aircraft to the private pilot, departed Nampa Municipal Airport, Nampa, Idaho, about 25 minutes prior to the accident. No flight plan had been filed, and according to witnesses, the aircraft was being operated in visual meteorological conditions. The ELT had been removed for repair. According to witnesses, the aircraft had been maneuvering in the general area for a little over five minutes prior to the crash. The witnesses reported that part of the time, they could hear the aircraft's engine running strong and smooth, but that there were also times when it sounded like it was popping and backfiring or not running at all. Most witnesses said that during the descent which culminated in impact with the terrain, the aircraft's engine could not be heard at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > Behalf Of Horn2004@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:40 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Re: Thunder Mustang Accident > > > > In a message dated 6/15/98 8:05:05 PM, you wrote: > > < inflight failure - pulled the wings off- anyone hear about this.>> > > Dale Clark was the factory pilot for Thunder Mustang. He was taking a > prospective customer for a demo ride. > > Dale was here in Dallas about a month ago and gave me a nice > close look at the > Mustang and gave our EAA chapter a 2-hour presentation on the > Mustang. He was > an incredible pilot who was very well known in the warbird community. Dan > Denney hired him to help get the warbird community "behind" the Thunder > Mustang. Dale had hundreds of hours in the Thunder Mustang and > thousands of > hours in warbirds/high performance aircraft. > > We received word from Dan Denney about a week ago that the > Mustang crashed. It > went in at a high rate of speed killing both pilot and passenger. > The mustang > hit at approximately a 50 degree nose down angle. The aircraft > was completely > destroyed. The engine was running at impact. There was no > evidence of any in- > flight structural failure upon preliminary investigation. > > We lost a very good man and probably one of the finest engineered > homebuilt > aircraft I have every seen. > > Steve Horn > Dallas, TX > horn2004@aol.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:37:42 From: Flesner Subject: Re: KR: wire size chart Fellow netters, This post is a little late concerning wire sizes as the subject was discussed a week or so ago. Do I have to say it again..... "everything you need to know to wire your KR you can find in one of the Tony Bingalis books". There are wire size charts for bundles, open air, etc. , voltage drop per foot for wire sizes, sample circuits, and whatever else you need to know. It gives recommended breaker sizes for various circuits and much , much more. Anyone building a homebuilt should order his books at the same time you order your plans. GET THEM, GET THEM, GET THEM!!!!!! See if you can order them through your local EAA chapter for a discount. They were offered for a while but the offer may have ended. Reguardless, the info they contain is worth twice their selling price anyway.... One source for cheap aircraft wire may be a local aircraft radio shop. I got enough wire for my KR from just a portion of the wire removed when the radios were upgraded in an Apache. I got mine for free but even if you can buy it by the pound or something you may find a deal. Pick bundles that have a good selection of wire sizes in it if possible. You never know which rock has the deal under it so turn them all over !!!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:09:05 -0700 From: "Bruce S. Campbell" Subject: Re: KR: wire size chart Flesner wrote: > > Fellow netters, >everything > you need to know to wire your KR you can find in one of the > Tony Bingalis books". There are wire size charts for bundles, >...should order his books at the same time you order your plans. GET THEM, GET THEM, GET THEM!!!!!! Yep! I second that one. :o)) Bruce S. Campbell Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:48:22 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: KR2S stretching Gentlemen, It is finally time to cut the longerons to determine the final length of the fuselage. Originally I had plans to stretch the fuselage another 2 inches from the front and four inches at the back bringing the total length to 16' 6". I plan to enlarge the rudder and elevator area by 10% and balance the elevator. I plan to use a O-200 with no vacuum pump intalled with conventional landing gear (Diehl). I thought that will bring the CG forward and reduce some of that pitch sensitivity. I plan to have a header tank and two medium size stub tanks for a total of 24 gals capacity. I plan to keep every things light and simple and to the plans, although I need a radio and and and xponder in addition to the usual VFR stuff. My concern is that at full fuel and one 150# pilot abroad the plane might be too nose heavy. I was planning to do a detailed static stability analysis but I do not have enough info on weights and downwash angle etc. What do you all think? Haris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:54:31 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage Netters, It seems that if we build from the fuselage from the plans, the plywood scarf line goes around the fuselage. Is is OK to have that? or good practice will be to stagger the scarf lines at different vertical and horizontal members. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:51:08 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching Haris, The answer to this question depends a great deal on which engine mount you intend to use. If you are going to use the Rand Robinson O-200 engine mount, I would not recommend stretching the front of the plane more than shown in the KR-2S plans. My -2S is NOT stretched at all in the front end, just the back. With a C-85 up front on the Rand Robinson O-200 engine mount, my CG came out forward enough that it requires a minimum of a 105# pilot to have the CG within the CG range throughout all possible fuel load configurations. I licensed my plane for up to 1200# gross weight and routinely fly it that heavy. I can not get it out of either end of the CG range regardless of the fuel distribution or passenger load. On the other hand, if you are planning to use the HAPI mount from Great Planes, it is 3 1/2" shorter in length than the RRE O-200 mount. FWIW, there are problems with using either mount. I bought one of each, then sold the one from Great Planes as it was not useable with my old mellon sized Eiseman mags. The Great Planes HAPI mount also mounts to the firewall in a fairly narrow area, which I didn't care for as I want the engine supported and pulling out close to the longerons. Before someone else mentions it, that is the way Marty Roberts and Steve Alderman both have their engines mounted and neither of them have had a problem that Iam aware of. It was just my personal preference. The RRE O-200 mount fit perfectly on my C-85 and mounts out close to the longerons. However, it does have the cross brace very close to the old 20 amp generator on my C-85. If you plan to use the alternator that is usually standard on the O-200, the mount interferes with the alternator (the alternator is bigger around). You can cure that by swapping someone for a 20 amp generator off a C-85 or C-90. The recipient of your alternator would probably be happy to make a trade. Ok, that's probably more than you wantd to hear. :o) Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:48:22 EDT HAshraf@aol.com writes: >Gentlemen, > >It is finally time to cut the longerons to determine the final length >of the >fuselage. Originally I had plans to stretch the fuselage another 2 >inches from >the front and four inches at the back bringing the total length to 16' >6". I >plan to enlarge the rudder and elevator area by 10% and balance the >elevator. > >I plan to use a O-200 with no vacuum pump intalled with conventional >landing >gear (Diehl). I thought that will bring the CG forward and reduce >some of >that pitch sensitivity. > >I plan to have a header tank and two medium size stub tanks for a >total of 24 >gals capacity. I plan to keep every things light and simple and to the >plans, >although I need a radio and and and xponder in addition to the usual >VFR >stuff. > >My concern is that at full fuel and one 150# pilot abroad the plane >might be >too nose heavy. > >I was planning to do a detailed static stability analysis but I do not >have >enough info on weights and downwash angle etc. > >What do you all think? > >Haris > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:21:42 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching I think at this stage of the game I would plan on you changing your mind a few times. The more I've learned, the more my initial plan has changed. I would make it as long as your longerons are. 16'6 inches means 2 scarf joints. Plan your plywood accordingly. The boat seems to be the easy part. After the boat some people get overwhelmed.I think thats why you often see them for sale. This list is great for details but a lot of people tend to get tied up in them long before they need to.(I'm fighting that now) I feel theres plenty of people on this list who get a little bit ahead of themselves. Its easy for people to argue the merits of what color spark plug wires to use while in reality they are just starting to glue up there longerons. >From: HAshraf@aol.com >It is finally time to cut the longerons to determine the final length of the >fuselage. Originally I had plans to stretch the fuselage another 2 inches from >the front and four inches at the back bringing the total length to 16' 6". I >plan to enlarge the rudder and elevator area by 10% and balance the elevator. > >I plan to use a O-200 with no vacuum pump intalled with conventional landing >gear (Diehl). I thought that will bring the CG forward and reduce some of >that pitch sensitivity. > >I plan to have a header tank and two medium size stub tanks for a total of 24 >gals capacity. I plan to keep every things light and simple and to the plans, >although I need a radio and and and xponder in addition to the usual VFR >stuff. > >My concern is that at full fuel and one 150# pilot abroad the plane might be >too nose heavy. > >I was planning to do a detailed static stability analysis but I do not have >enough info on weights and downwash angle etc. Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:23:53 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage My sides are scarfed at the same point. approx 8 feet from the firewall. The bottom is scarfed 8 feet from the tail. >From: HAshraf@aol.com >Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:54:31 EDT >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Netters, > >It seems that if we build from the fuselage from the plans, the plywood scarf >line goes around the fuselage. Is is OK to have that? or good practice will >be to stagger the scarf lines at different vertical and horizontal members. > >Haris > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:31:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage At 10:54 PM 6/16/98 EDT, you wrote: >Netters, > >It seems that if we build from the fuselage from the plans, the plywood scarf line goes around the fuselage. Is is OK to have that? or good practice will be to stagger the scarf lines at different vertical and horizontal members. > My thoughts were that a scarf joint is as strong as no joint (continuous piece of plywood) so where they are is irrelevant. You may have noticed they all fall in the same place in my fuselage. But in thinking like you I staggered the ones on the spars. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:42:55 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage At 08:31 AM 6/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >My thoughts were that a scarf joint is as strong as no joint (continuous >piece of plywood) so where they are is irrelevant. >>>>> As long as they fall over a vertical member of some sort. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:38:05 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: hstab leading edge I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge reinforcement is needed? Bob Smith ( you guessed it! I'm working on my horiz stab) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:10:29 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge Bob, I think were at the same point. I was just driving back from lunch thinking how could I make the leading and trailing edges cleaner. I'm also hotwiring instead of sanding so a rod or dowel would be a good guide. As for strength I dont think it will help much. It will make the glassing easier though. >I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz >stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge >reinforcement is needed? > >Bob Smith ( you guessed it! I'm working on my horiz stab) > > Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #97 ****************************