From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 6:51 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #99 krnet-l-digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 099 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:51:43 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge At 10:07 PM 6/17/98 PDT, you wrote: >^^^^^^^^^^ >>Hi all >My name is (Mr.) Jody Wallace. I wanted to take take an opportunity to >introduce myself and pass along a late breaking aviation story. I have >purchased KR-2 plans and look forward to getting started building >shortly. You people have great ideas and I really appreciate your >organization... Welcome aboard! There is a lot of great information, experience and knowledge here....... somewhere. If we can find it we WILL share it with anyone for the just by asking. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:03:51 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: Weights At 07:25 AM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >Tim Anderson wrote: >> How come Brian's B-1 bomber weighed 5 lbs less than your SP-290 in the boat stage? >> >> Tim Anderson > >I dont know, maybe he didnt have all the plywood gussets in place. >Could be that I used 1/4 plywood on the S additions (main spar location >and motor mount area). That weight was for everything from the >turtledecks down. I will have an all up weight including wings this >weekend. > Maybe it's the altitude. or maybe not?. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:24:54 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: RE: Re: East coast gathering OK, so where is the offical Diehard Friday meeting location? >OK Rich, I'm covering your 6. Now who is going to cover me? > >Will get in sometime Friday. Will probably drive from Evansvillei, IN. If >anyone is along the way I will be glad to pick them up. > >And what was that you said about the resident services at the Polk? > >Steve Eberhart >newtech@newtech.com > >> >> >The Gathering will be mainly on Saturday, July 25, but the real >> >diehards will be milling around at the airport on Friday. The hotel >> >of choice will be the Ramada Inn (ph 931-388-2720). Mention the >> >Raider Aviation discount, and let us know how much the room is... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:41:45 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: diehard get-together > OK, so where is the offical Diehard Friday meeting location? Well, I can't speak for Troy, but I could easily be there at 8AM or so on Friday. The place isn't that big, so don't worry about not being able to sniff out the diehards. I would think the center of attention would start out at Troy's hangar, which will be easily recognizable by the KingAir, KR2, Formula 1 racer, etc. Given the hotel situation, I may have to commute to this thing (and I do have a thing for sleeping with my wife). Maybe more people are coming to this affair than we originally anticipated. Maybe an East Coast Get-Together is born... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:38:23 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: RFP Vertical Spar Repairs RFP = Request for Proposals regarding repairs I purchased a KR2 project where a previous owner cut and removed a 4" segment of the aft vertical stabilizer spar directly adjacent to the elevator bellcrank section. I'm open to suggestions as to the proper method of repair to correct this problem. The first thought that comes to mind is to remove the entire member and replace it from the tailwheel block all the way through the top of the fin with a new spar. I'm wondering if this can be done without "springing" the alignment of the aft fuselage. I also wonder about access to the area as the side skins are in place (curiously though the bottom skin is not yet installed which tremendously improves access to the area.) Other comments have been tendered as to Part 41 scarfing in a new section, replacing the section scarfing as much as possible and reinforcing with unidirectional glass tape or "U" channel glass as possible, or even replacing the missing section with 1/8" aluminum plate/ bar. What do you say folks? I'd appreciate some feedback if you have any ideas. Thanks in advance. bou John Bouyea johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net kr2s - building the spars & kr2 - trying to complete it if possible Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:56:05 -0400 From: mike cochran Subject: KR: Re: Kansas City My name is Mike Cochran. I will be in Kansas City next week (6-22 to 6-27). Are there any good airports for exp. or UL. Any KRII projects or flying. Thanks Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:56:21 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR2S stretching In a message dated 98-06-17 21:37:18 EDT, you write: << Hello Heris, You didn't say if you were starting with the standard KR or the S version >> I am building the S version. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:16:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: nice straight trailing edges Seems that some of you are at the point of building your horizontal and vertical stabs. There has been talk of adding dowels or wood to trailing and leading edges. Its not really needed, my leading edge is as plans and is very strong. As for trailing edges I think the plans could have been a little better in this area. You can use the method Mark Langford uses at his web site or you can make them like Burt Rutan does on his aircraft and hundreds of other composite designs. I used the Rutan method and my trailing edges are very straight and incredibly strong, I think you could chop wood with them if you had to (no joke). I was kneeling under my plane the other day and on the way back up I hit my head on the trailing edge of the elevator. OUCH!! I haven't been bit by an airplane since the F-4 Phantom bites I got in the MC. Anyway my trailing edges are light and strong and were easy to make. You don't have to get carried away with adding wood or aluminum to make them straight. If you guys want I could post some drawings on how the Rutan method works. Let me know. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:23:16 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Bernie Warnke There is a guy in Newport Oregon (Props Inc), who makes wooden props. I thing Bernie did use a unique laminating setup that may have made his props behave differently than standard wooden props, but I have also been told that all wooden props flex to a degree, so the "almost constant speed" may have been marketing hype... anyone know the real story? -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > PropHeads, > > I ready last night in Sport Aviation that Bernie Warnke died in April. He's > the guy who made the "almost constant speed" prop famous, mostly for VWs. > That leaves a big hole in the prop department. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:24:46 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Skunk Works No, I am an American, but I have some friends who are British, and would claim that American is not English... - -- Regards Ross aabbcc01@infonie.fr wrote: > ---------- > > De : Ross Youngblood > > A : krnet-l@teleport.com > > Objet : Re: KR: Skunk Works > > Date : mardi 16 juin 1998 00:10 > > > > aabbcc01@infonie.fr wrote: > > > > > Sorry but i don't understand well the american language > > > > No problem, I don't understand the American language very well either, > > and yourunderstanding of English is much better than my Understang of > > French, oui? > > > > i agree your congratulations thank you > (and mean to say you are not an american?) > > bye ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:30:47 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks Kr2dream@aol.com wrote: > Ercoupes have three tanks and only ONE of them is vented. The fuel pump pumps > from a tee between the wing tanks to the header tank which has an overflow to > the left wing tank which is cross-connected to the right wing tank. The > header is the last to drain. I have had a number of people refer to it as one > of the best fuel systems flying. I have a copy of the Ercoupe drawings if > anyone is interested. > > Bob Lasecki > Chicago and still trying to build. Yes the Ercoupe design seems to be one of the best KISS designs I can think of. I didn't have an extra line for the overflow, and was reluctant to place it back to a line next to the "T", as I think this would allow the pumps to "suck air", I think the header overflow line needs to go back to the wing tank with a seperate line, and I didn't have one plumbed to my wings when we discussed this fuel routing for my KR at an EAA chapter meeting one night. I don't have the Ercoupe schematic, but I expect I would find that the header overflow, goes to a line that is seperate from the wing tank feed line. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:36:22 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks I don't recall how the Piper Tomahawk fuel arrangment worked, someplace I have a flight manual which covers this... At any rate, I was thinking that in a slip of a high wing aircraft, you would still have gravity working to your advantage, especially if the "T" is below the lowest point of each wing. But with a low wing, if one end of a "T" becomes unported your fuel pump could start sucking air. Comments? Tom Andersen wrote: > Mike, > I know for a fact that C152's have no header tank, only a t fitting where both > wing tanks join. They seem to have equal fuel draw from both tanks with only > gravity feed. > > In my post to Larry, I can readily see problems with long wing tanks that reach > out almost to the tips of the wings. > The only remaining question in my mind is whether I will get equal flow from > both stub tanks, since the pump will be SUCKING fuel from two tanks through a > four-position valve set to BOTH, rather than being gravity fed to a four-way > valve set to BOTH. I can see that on a high wing plane, drawing from both > tanks simultaneously would equal out the tanks naturally due to the increased > head pressure from a tank with more fuel than the other. I'm not confident > this would occur with stub tanks because there is no gravity pressure, except > maybe for the actual height of the tanks to create any gravity feed to the > selector valve. > > I'm real interested in how the Piper low-wings route their fuel systems. > > Thanks for the info on the facet pumps, Everyone! I think I'll end up with > three, two for cross-flow and one for boost pump duty. > -Tom > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > > At 08:50 PM 6/15/98, you wrote: > > >For Jeff, what was it the pilot at your field disliked about wing tanks? > > >If there is something I should know , please tell me. I've never heard > > >a Cessna, Piper, Bonanza, Rockwell, Mooney, Ercoupe, etc. driver > > >say they wished they had their fuel in the cockpit !!!!!!! > > > > > > > I think it was me that said a pilot at my field dis-liked his tanks. The > > biggest concern was that they caused wing heaviness with very little fuel > > level difference and the other thing was he felt they caused erratic roll > > control during banking and strange pitching moments when accelerating and > > decelerating. Although if he was making a coordinated turn the fuel should > > stay in the same place as level flight. He has two baffles installed in > > each tank. He also felt he could lighten his airplane by 40 pounds by > > going to the stock RR header tank. > > > > PS Cessnas, Pipers, and Ercoupes have header tanks I think. :o) Not sure > > about the others. > > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > > Micheal Mims > > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > > Irvine Ca > > Fax 949.856.9417 > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:43:11 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking Tom Andersen wrote: > > For those building header tanks, make sure you clamp down the line > > somewhere before the firewall and then install a pull-apart between > > there and the firewall. One KR accident report related a KR making > > a hard landing that caused the firewall to separate from the fuselage. > > the fuel line pulled the bottom of the tank out and covered the pilot > > with fuel. How LUCKY he was that it never ignited. > > All,This is my nightmare with that RR fiberglass header tank. One spark, and > you'd be dead, even if you made a landing you could walk away from. Let's see, > where can we get sparks on an airplane. How about a chock-full instrument panel > with lots of 12v wiring, placed right next to 12 gallons of gasoline? The lines > going into fiberglass tanks are FLOXED into place, and this is too weak for any > abuse at all. > No fuel in the cockpit for me, no way. I'd prefer it to leak out onto the ground, > or into the air. I see header tanks mainly on tube and fabric airplanes, which > don't have nice structures in the wings to act as fuel tanks, like in aluminum or > glass aircraft. Just because RR designed it that way doesn't mean that's the best > design for everyone. > -Tom > Flameproof suit on order. Tom, Flox is pretty tough stuff, just try cleaning it off your tools. Actually I decided similarly, in one of the old KR snail-mail newsletters a Sonari had a forced landing, and the header tank burst, covering the pilot with fuel, which later ignited. I believe the pilot died a few days later from burns. I decided at that point to use wing tanks for 90% of my fuel, and using the header as a reserve, or fuel-pump out tank. My header only holds five gallons, and has a sight gauge. My wing tanks are a bit large, 11 gal each, but I built them to the photo in the plans, which didn't seem that large at the time. These have independantly fused facet fuel pumps, and sending units which feed a 4 way fuel selector valve, (L, R, Header). Each fuel pump has a filter between it and the tank, to prevent any large junk from jamming the pumps. (This is in addition to the finger screen in the welding flange at the pick up point.) Then, becasue the Ellison needs finely filtered fuel, I have an automotive fuel filter between the selector valve and the gascolator. I picked it up at K-Mart. I figure that most modern car fuel injector systems probably need as fine a filtering as the Ellison, and that is as scientific as I got. - -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:05:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Bernie Warnke At 09:23 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote:, <>>> I think they were call this because there was little RPM variation from static runup, climb, and cruise. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:06:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Skunk Works At 09:24 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >No, I am an American, but I have some friends who are British, and would claim that American is not English... >-- Regards > Ross Well of course not, we aint English chap!!!! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:10:49 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: nice straight trailing edges At 09:16 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >If you guys want I could post some drawings on how the Rutan method works. Let me know.>>>> Well in the typical "Mike Mims" tradition, your getting it even if you didn't want it! :o) Go to: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/trailing.jpg to see the drawing. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:41:20 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Ellision Tom Andersen wrote: > > I have to use a pump with an Ellison EFS-2 anyway because the EFS-2 > needs at least 0.5 PSI, or 20 inches of vertical distance from the last gallon > in the tank to the unit. Since the unit gets mounted on the top of the engine, > that will never be available, in fact, ony a few inches of head will ever be > available. Tom, There are some Ellision installations at the "bottom" of the engine which are even referenced by Ellison in their web site. The intake manifold from Great Planes is one (which I am using). Although I have an A&P who prefers mounting carbs on top. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:55:22 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wire size chart Larry, You are correct about this info being in the Bengellis books, including schematics. That is where I based my wiring schematic. However my KR alternator is not the same amperage as the ones in his schematics, so I think I adjusted my wire gagues accordingly, using the current load gauge information provided. - -- Regards Ross Thanks also for reminding me that EAA Chapters get a deal on these books, I need to check into this for our local chapter and get the word out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:56:02 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Plywood scarf line around fuselage I staggered my scarf lines, the sides scarf joint is further aft than the belly scarf. - -- Ross HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > Netters, > > It seems that if we build from the fuselage from the plans, the plywood scarf > line goes around the fuselage. Is is OK to have that? or good practice will > be to stagger the scarf lines at different vertical and horizontal members. > > Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:58:09 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: cracks Martin Mulvey wrote: > Hi Darrin and all, > > The "cracking" is most probably checking in the end grains of the wood. They > are caused by wood drying out by no preservative put > on the ends. > Varnish your spar stubs... the grain will wick up the varnish, so put a couple of coats on it. Mine are fine, and I started in Arizona 10 years ago. - -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:00:28 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: hstab leading edge Well, if you overlap the front of the leading edge so that it has two ply, it is probably pretty tough. I did get some hangar rash on the corners though. (end of leading edge... don't ram this into parked cars etc). -- Ross smithr wrote: > I believe that Roy Marsh put a wooden dowel leading edge on the horiz > stab in his 2S. Does anyone think this or any kind of leading edge > reinforcement is needed? > > Bob Smith ( you guessed it! I'm working on my horiz stab) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:14:18 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Tom Andersen wrote: > There was an accident report stating that a KR pilot had made an off-field landing, > and the resulting fire melted a lot of u-foam, and he was cyanide poisoned in the > cockpit, then burned. He was found a few days after the accident had occured. He > was not able to get the canopy unlatched. > -Tom > Tom, Can you give us details on this report. What year, N number? I haven't heard of this report. - -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:17:57 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: First time builder observations Paul, I have one thing to ad.... When you prop the "boat" on it's Nose, to vacuum out all the dust etc, insure that it is far enough from the parked car that when the wind comes up, it doesn't put a dent in the fender as it falls. -- Ross True story: When I went to trade in my '87 Suburau in 1993, I had to explain that the only dent in the car was when the "airplane" fell on it. Linda & Paul Martin wrote: > I hope to be out taxi testing the KR next week and have a few thoughts > for other newcomers to the airplane world. Some of you will laugh but > years of car fixin' didn't touch on these. Enjoy the humor :-) > > You may want to put the prop. on before starting the motor. If it fires > before TDC (Slick impulse coupling) the extra rotational mass may keep it > from kicking back and chewing a starter. > > The old 3 lb. HAPI starter (Bosch) is similar to a marine starter and > rebuild parts can be found. > > Remind your wife/friend/child where not to step *before* they start out > of the cockpit. > > Use a mask when sanding. White snot isn't fun after a day or two. > > Plan (write down) the next few steps. You may want to do step E before B > and C. This is usually easier than ripping out B and C. > > Make "need" lists. You may have to wait for parts (NAPA doesn't have > what you need) and the delay can hold up all the next steps down the > chain. > > Get several opinions. The local A&P said to use sloshing compound in an > older fiberglass fuel tank. It may work, but I feel better having a new > one instead of a "fixed" one. Thank you KRNet. > > Have someone help you with the two person jobs. Independence is great, > but help can save you months of repair. > > There's no bumpers on a KR. If you are rolling it around the garage and > can't see the elevator because it's below the horiz. stab, step out and > look. > > Nomex shorts are on, fire away. > > Paul M. > Ashland, OR > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:25:18 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: RFP Vertical Spar Repairs John, I think I would plan a scarf joint with perhaps a 3/32 plywood doubler. The slope and length of the doubler I would get from my "Aircraft Construction Techniques" TAB book, it has the old FAA regs with regards to splicing wood etc. I don't think that you need an aluminum plate back there. The doubler needs a taper to prevent cracking/checking if I recall, or you need to bevel at the ends. Since access to the area is limited, I'm wondering if you can make the scarf by using a router on both ends to get the correct slope. This is off the cuff thinking, but you would need some nice way to cut the angle of the scarf. - -- Regards Ross John Bouyea wrote: > RFP = Request for Proposals regarding repairs > > I purchased a KR2 project where a previous owner cut and removed a 4" > segment of the aft vertical stabilizer spar directly adjacent to the > elevator bellcrank section. > > I'm open to suggestions as to the proper method of repair to correct this > problem. The first thought that comes to mind is to remove the entire > member and replace it from the tailwheel block all the way through the top > of the fin with a new spar. I'm wondering if this can be done without > "springing" the alignment of the aft fuselage. I also wonder about access > to the area as the side skins are in place (curiously though the bottom > skin is not yet installed which tremendously improves access to the area.) > > Other comments have been tendered as to Part 41 scarfing in a new section, > replacing the section scarfing as much as possible and reinforcing with > unidirectional glass tape or "U" channel glass as possible, or even > replacing the missing section with 1/8" aluminum plate/ bar. > > What do you say folks? I'd appreciate some feedback if you have any ideas. > > Thanks in advance. > > bou > John Bouyea > johnbouyea@worldnet.att.net > kr2s - building the spars & kr2 - trying to complete it if possible > Hillsboro, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:20:11 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Weights In a message dated 98-06-18 20:04:38 EDT, you write: << Tim Anderson wrote: >> How come Brian's B-1 bomber weighed 5 lbs less than your SP-290 in the boat stage? >> >> Tim Anderson > Maybe it's the altitude. or maybe not?. Bobby Muse(N122B) >> No, no Bobby, it's the attitude not altitude :-)) Only kidding Mike, only kidding Mike, only kidding Mike :-)) I'll get my weights posted this weekend everything, less finish WOO HOO getting there. :-)) Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:27:41 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering In a message dated 98-06-18 17:13:38 EDT, you write: << FYI- the Ramada inn is booked solid for july 24th and 25th. the Days in 5 doors down is booked also. The Polk Motel 5 doors down in the other direction has rooms for 32.95 + tax. phone number is 931-388-2720. God (and probably a couple of the local hookers)only knows what it looks like. Airfare from Manchester NH was $55.00 each way. I couldnt have driven for that little. (add my name to the diehard list!) Rich Parker >> Richard, don't talk about our KR Gal, Melody Mountains like that, I'll give her a call and find out about "The Polk", course they probably give her an hourly rate :-)). Same here guys, I'll be down as early as possible Friday and plan on just hanging around the airport all day. If the weather is good for the weekend I'll be flying a 1960 172, maroon/cream 7460T, either way be there by at least noon. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:32:11 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: diehard get-together 8 am is a little early. My flight arrives at 1:55 in Nashville. If you need somewhere to stay I can probably change my room to a double and we can split the expense. Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH >Well, I can't speak for Troy, but I could easily be there at 8AM or so on >Friday. The place isn't that big, so don't worry about not being able to >sniff out the diehards. I would think the center of attention would start >out at Troy's hangar, which will be easily recognizable by the KingAir, KR2, >Formula 1 racer, etc. Given the hotel situation, I may have to commute to >this thing (and I do have a thing for sleeping with my wife). Maybe more >people are coming to this affair than we originally anticipated. Maybe an >East Coast Get-Together is born... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:35:10 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: nice straight trailing edges sure why not. >If you guys want I could post some drawings on how the Rutan method works. >Let me know. >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:43:53 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering Does she prefer flying the standard or the stretched version? >Richard, don't talk about our KR Gal, Melody Mountains like that, I'll give >her a call and find out about "The Polk", course they probably give her an >hourly rate :-)). > >Same here guys, I'll be down as early as possible Friday and plan on just >hanging around the airport all day. If the weather is good for the weekend >I'll be flying a 1960 172, maroon/cream 7460T, either way be there by at least >noon. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:08:33 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Ross, Here's the report from the NTSB database at http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/Query.htm. This report is more detailed than the original report, I think the NTSB has updated their website with much more detailed info since last year, when this report was only a single paragraph long, as we are all used to seeing. I was mistaken in stating it took a few days, but this man's injuries were non-fatal, and the cyanide is what killed him. - -Tom NTSB Identification: FTW96FA092. The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB Imaging System. Accident occurred JAN-15-96 at WATKINS, CO Aircraft: KRUETER KR-2, registration: N8019C Injuries: 1 Fatal. The pilot had recently purchased the aircraft and had a condition inspection performed by a mechanic. When the inspection was complete, he told the mechanic he was going to perform some taxi tests. A short time later persons on the ramp observed smoke off the end of one of the runways. On investigation, they found the aircraft burning in a plowed field approximately 400 feet off the approach end of the runway. Whether the aircraft became airborne inadvertently or the pilot decided to fly the aircraft is unknown. The aircraft was constructed from wood, foam, and fiberglass. A high level of cyanide was found during toxicological testing and the autopsy found evidence of smoke inhalation and pulmonary edema along with thermal injuries. The other injuries were non lethal. Cyanide is a product of foam when exposed to the extreme heat associated with combustion. There was no evidence found to indicate preimpact fire. Probable Cause Failure by the pilot to maintain control of the aircraft. Factors were a lack of familiarity with the aircraft and lack of experience in the make and model. FTW96FA092 HISTORY OF FLIGHT On January 15, 1996, at 1645 mountain standard time, a home built Krueter KR-2, N8019C, impacted the ground at Front Range Airport, Watkins, Colorado. The private pilot received fatal injuries and the aircraft was destroyed. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed for this local area personal flight operating under Title 14 CFR Part 91. The takeoff time is unknown. According to witnesses, the pilot had not previously flown this recently purchased airplane and his stated intention was to perform taxi tests only. Whether he became airborne inadvertently or made the decision to fly the airplane is unknown. The accident occurred approximately 400 feet short of the approach end of runway 35 and offset to the east approximately 200 feet. (See wreckage and airport diagrams.) According to a mechanic, who performed a condition inspection on the aircraft for the pilot, the pilot's intention was to perform taxi tests and he observed him taxi away from the ramp/hangar area. At 1645, persons on the ramp observed smoke coming from the area of the approach end of runway 35. On investigation, they found the aircraft burning in a plowed field off the end of the runway. PERSONNEL INFORMATION The pilot held a private certificate issued May 10, 1975. According to logbook information, he did not fly from November 30, 1975, until July 21, 1995. He held a second class medical certificate issued August 4, 1995, and according to the certificate, corrective lenses were required to exercise the privileges of the certificate. The pilot's log provided information that he had accumulated 138:30 hours total time, all of which was in single engine land aircraft. Of that time, 55:12 hours was day dual instruction, 3:55 hours was night dual instruction, 62:28 hours was day solo, 1:30 hours was night solo, 2:25 hours was actual instrument time, and 17:05 hours was simulated instrument time. The log also provided information that the pilot received a biennial flight review on September 15, 1995, and a tail wheel endorsement on January 9, 1996. AIRCRAFT INFORMATION The aircraft, a KR-2, serial number 1, was built in 1980 by Richard B. Krueter. FAA records provided information that the aircraft had been sold on December 27, 1995, and that the registration was pending. The original KR-2 design was a two-place side-by-side low wing monoplane with no flaps, retractable main landing gear, and a steerable tail wheel. Length was 14 feet 6 inches, wing span was 20 feet 8 inches, and effective wing area was 78 square feet. The airfoil used was the RAF48. The airplane was designed to use a Volkswagen engine from 1,600cc to 2,200cc. Design empty weight, using the 1,600cc engine was 400 pounds and design gross weight was 800 pounds. Design fuel capacity was 12 gallons. Top speed was 150 miles per hour (mph) and design cruise speed was 140 mph. Landing speed was between 42 and 48 mph depending on aircraft weight. The materials used were plywood, Mylar, and foam, and construction was primarily done by gluing components. According to available information, this aircraft had a length of 14 feet 8 inches, a wing span of 20 feet 8 inches, a wing area of 78 square feet, an empty weight of 618 pounds, and a maximum gross weight of 975 pounds. The engine was a 1834cc Volkswagen and the fuel capacity was 15 gallons. The listed top speed was 150 mph, cruise speed was 135 mph, and the stall speed was 60 mph. According to aircraft records, in 1982 the builder/owner removed the retractable landing gear and installed fixed gear. In 1985 he installed flaps, and in August 1990, he moved the engine two inches forward. The only weight and balance recorded was done July 10, 1990, however; according to the log, the aircraft was successfully flown for several years after these modifications. WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION The aircraft wreckage was located in a plowed field 155 degrees and 400 feet from the approach end of runway 35 at Front Range Airport, Watkins, Colorado. Wreckage scatter was on a base course of 295 degrees. The first witness mark found was a gouge containing green glass and pieces of what appeared to be fiberglass. This was followed by a shallow pit containing engine debris and portions of curved Plexiglas. To the west of the pit, a large area of the surface was littered with pieces of foam, plywood, and fiberglass-like material. To the northeast of the pit, portions of the wood propeller blade were found imbedded in the ground. The fuselage, wing panels, and engine were located last in the scatter pattern and were found inverted facing opposite the direction of travel. They were destroyed by fire. No instruments or other cockpit equipment remained identifiable due to fire damage. Examination of pieces of curved Plexiglas, not consumed by fire, provided no evidence of sooting on the inner surfaces. MEDICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL INFORMATION An autopsy was performed on the pilot by Forensic Pathology Consultants, Loveland, Colorado. Their anatomic diagnosis determined that the pilot succumbed to injuries sustained from the accident. Toxicology was performed by the Federal Aviation Administration, Civil Aeromedical Institute, (CAMI) Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Their findings were: CARBON MONOXIDE - 11.0 (%) Carboxyhemoglobin detected in blood. CYANIDE - 3.310 (ug/ml) Cyanide detected in blood. No other substances were found. (A copy of the toxicology report is attached.) FIRE Except for pieces of foam, Plexiglas, and the fiberglass-like material which was thrown free of the primary wreckage, the aircraft was consumed by fire. TEST AND RESEARCH Based on information provided by CAMI, the carbon monoxide level is in the normal range for a smoker and could not be considered as lethal. Cyanide levels above 3ug/ml are considered lethal and the source is usually foam material exposed to high heat associated with combustion. ADDITIONAL DATA/INFORMATION The aircraft wreckage was released to the Manager of Operations, Front Range Airport, on January 16, 1995. No parts were retained. Return to synopsis Ross Youngblood wrote: > Tom Andersen wrote: > > > There was an accident report stating that a KR pilot had made an off-field landing, > > and the resulting fire melted a lot of u-foam, and he was cyanide poisoned in the > > cockpit, then burned. He was found a few days after the accident had occured. He > > was not able to get the canopy unlatched. > > -Tom > > > > Tom, > Can you give us details on this report. What year, N number? I haven't heard of > this report. > -- Regards > Ross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:51:26 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning It wasnt the cyanide that killed him. It was the smoke inhallation. Pulmonary edema basically means his lungs got cooked by the hot smoke. Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH >A high level of cyanide was found during toxicological testing and the >autopsy >found evidence of smoke inhalation and pulmonary edema along with thermal injuries. The >other >injuries were non lethal. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #99 ****************************