From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 5:54 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #100 krnet-l-digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 100 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:05:07 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/fuel draw from two stub wing tanks Ross, Sucking air through the T fitting on a low wing airplane is definitely a concern. I may not be able to incorporate or use a BOTH setting in all configurations. I definitely want to know how every other low wing manages their fuel draw. On the high wing, probably enough fuel flows via gravity not to induce air bubbles. (I thought that standard procedure on GA aircraft is to do all flight maneuvers including takeoff and landing on the RIGHT tank, and only use the both selection at cruise.) Of course, the fuel tanks are not BELOW the t-fitting if you put it on the floor, in fact, the t-fitting would be below the tank floors by 2 inches. I guess the question is this: Would one stub wing tank drain out to the pump if the other tank was empty, and would the resulting air bubbles cause fuel starvation on an Ellison? Ellison states that incipient air bubbles are not a problem. I would think that no air bubbles would enter the T fitting, and the pump would not suck any more bubbles than would enter with gravity feed because the pump's throughput is related to the fuel flow the engine uses, and a lot of suction would not be created, unless there is an internal bypass in the facet pump. Anyone ever take a facet pump apart or know the internal fuel routing? Could it cavitate? If I do a t-fitting or fuel flow selector, it would behoove me to put it near the rear of the tank, so that at nose high attitudes I would still have this tiny gravity feed to the selector. (I don't think I'll be able to run a BOTH selection or T-fitting because of this concern. The BOTH selection may be limited to cruise configuration with both tanks above 1/3 full or something.) An additional concern of mine is that there's no engine driven fuel pump on a Soob. I refuse to go without both a mechanical pump and an electrical pump. Thanks for pointing that out and making me think Ross! - -Tom Ross Youngblood wrote: > I was thinking that in a slip of a high wing aircraft, you would still > have gravity > working to your advantage, especially if the "T" is below the lowest point of each > wing. > But with a low wing, if one end of a "T" becomes unported your fuel pump could > start sucking air. > Comments? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:12:54 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: RFP Vertical Spar Repairs John Bouyea wrote: > I purchased a KR2 project where a previous owner cut and removed a 4" > segment of the aft vertical stabilizer spar directly adjacent to the > elevator bellcrank section. > > I'm open to suggestions as to the proper method of repair to correct this > problem. Opinions are cheap, here is mine. If you can get a scarf on the lower portion at the intersection with the top longeron, I would go with that. As to the upper, it may be easier to remove and replace the vertical stab spar above that point. This would give one splice in the spar instead of two. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:25:04 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/fuel draw from two stub wing tanks Tom Andersen wrote: > > Ross, > Sucking air through the T fitting on a low wing airplane is definitely a concern. I may not be able to incorporate or use a BOTH setting in all configurations. >>>>> Tom, almost all low wing aircraft have left, right , off. I dont know of two many that have a "both" position. The larger Cessna (high wing) aircraft do not have the both position either. My stub tanks go into a T then to the pump but they are NOT used to feed the engine and are only used to transfer fuel to the header tank in level flight. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:30:58 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RFP Vertical Spar Repairs Donald Reid wrote: > Opinions are cheap, here is mine. > If you can get a scarf on the lower portion at the intersection with the top longeron, I would go with that. As to the upper, it may be easier to remove and replace the vertical stab spar above that point. This would give one splice in the spar instead of two. > > -- Oh well I may as well add mine since they cost so little! (Opinion) :o) If you are dealing with just a boat (no t-decks) consider ripping the whole thing out and replacing it. If you have t-decks and horizontal stabs to deal with the scarf idea may be a better way to go. If you rip out the damaged vertical spar I don't think you will risk the boat springing out. It sounds like it has been bent for some time so any springing would be easy to over come with a few clamps. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:02:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: Q-LIST: CONTACT! Website (fwd) THis showed up on the Quickie list. Thought most would be interrested in it. Oscar put me on the the magazine and if you are interrested in Experimental aviation then this is one of the must subscribe magazines. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:43:25 -0700 From: D Stewart To: Multiple recipients of list quickie Subject: Q-LIST: CONTACT! Website Mick Myal's CONTACT! Magazine's Website is up and running at http://www.NonProfitNet.com/CONTACT/ The website provides some background on the magazine, and a complete index of all issues of CONTACT! Magazine along with back issue ordering and subscription information. Regards, Don Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:57:16 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/fuel draw from two stub wing tanks Mike, The BOTH position has too many variables to safely say I can install it. A left, right, off selector will have to be the way to go. The head height, if you could call it that its so small, is far less than the length of the tank, and so an attitude change in the tank's longitudinal position would drastically impact head height. I wish I could find a reversible fuel pump for the cross-flow pump I could eliminate one of the cross-flow pumps. I want to be able to choose cross-flow direction at the toggle switch. Anyone know of a reversible fuel pump? I know I could do it with two four-way selector valves, but that's getting ridiculous. - -Tom Micheal Mims wrote: > Tom Andersen wrote: > > > > Ross, > > Sucking air through the T fitting on a low wing airplane is definitely a concern. I may not be able to incorporate or use a BOTH setting in all configurations. >>>>> > > Tom, almost all low wing aircraft have left, right , off. I dont know > of two many that have a "both" position. The larger Cessna (high wing) > aircraft do not have the both position either. My stub tanks go into a T > then to the pump but they are NOT used to feed the engine and are only > used to transfer fuel to the header tank in level flight. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:14:00 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering Netters, I'll be going too, arriving Saturday morning in Nashville at 7:50am. I should make it out there about 9:30am or so. I can't wait to meet you all in person. This is going to be a very special day. I'll be staying there Saturday night at the notel motel. Flight cost $173 round trip from Orlando. I'll bring my Canon ES-2500 HI-8 video camera to record all the action. The camera has an OPTICAL prism stabilization system, which takes all the vibrations out of the picture even at full 22x optical zoom. I can zoom all the way out, and the picture is fairly stable, unlike most camcorders which are unviewable beyond 10x. It makes all the difference in the world. I'll post some snappyshots on my new web page which will be coming out shortly. - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:16:51 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning >It wasnt the cyanide that killed him. It was the smoke inhallation. >Pulmonary edema basically means his lungs got cooked by the hot smoke. > >Rich Parker >Jaffrey, NH More to the point, Pulmonary Edema is when the lungs get filled with fluid and choke the victim to death. Can be caused by toxin, smoke inhalation, high altitude, etc. resluting in increased permeability of the capillaries/aveoli, allowing fliud to fill the lungs. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:54:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Robert Covington wrote: > > More to the point, Pulmonary Edema is when the lungs get filled with fluid and choke the victim to death. Can be caused by toxin, smoke inhalation, high altitude, etc. resluting in increased permeability of the capillaries/aveoli, allowing fliud to fill the lungs. > > Robert Covington Ahh yes the good ole days in the GAS CHAMBER! CS gas is a great way to start your day. On a more serious note, it was said he was killed by Pulmonary Edema but by the sounds of it he hit the ground pretty damn hard and was sitting inverted. This sounds like a crash that could and would kill almost anyone regardless of aircraft type. The other day I was sitting under my plane with my head up inside the cockpit (the door is off at this time and the plane is inverted) and realized it would be a pain in the butt to try and get out of this thing if it ever flipped over on its back. I am thinking about using two pins at the hinge locations that would be attached to a pull handle. Seems a quick tug on the handle would allow me to completely remove the door from the inside. I don't know maybe I am just being paranoid. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:25:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering WOW!, this is turning out to be quite an "affair"..........be careful guys, wrong choice of words for those of us that are married and are staying at the "Poke" motel :-) I am in Davenport, IA on business this week. On the return trip home I will be passing through Champaign, IL - Dr. Selig's home base. I will pick up the AS5045 wind tunnel wing and some of the air flow visability pictures so that those of you that have contributed to the Airfoil Visionary Fund can see what you helped support. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:11:18 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering Can anyone give me directions to the notel motel from the Maury County airport? I got some directions from the staff there, but I couldn't located it on the map. I know it's on HWY 31, but what crossroad? HWY 6? Hwy 412? - -Tom Steven A Eberhart wrote: > WOW!, this is turning out to be quite an "affair"..........be careful guys, > wrong choice of words for those of us that are married and are staying at > the "Poke" motel :-) > > I am in Davenport, IA on business this week. On the return trip home I > will be passing through Champaign, IL - Dr. Selig's home base. I will > pick up the AS5045 wind tunnel wing and some of the air flow visability > pictures so that those of you that have contributed to the Airfoil > Visionary Fund can see what you helped support. > > Steve Eberhart > ------------------------------------- > http://www.newtech.com/nlf > > One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are > easier to get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:12:17 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/fuel draw from two stub wing tanks Tom, I never heard of the selection of "Right" fuel tank on GA aircraft as a standard, I thought "fullest" tank was more appropriate, but in all cases I think the appropriate selection is based on the POH (Pilot's Operating Handbook) for the aircraft. I'm not thinking air bubbles, when either end of a "T" fitting becomes exposed to atmosphere the pressure at the fuel pump inlet will see stmospheric pressure once the fuel remaining in the fitting is sucked out. Make a "T" fitting out of plastic tubing, place one end in a coke, one in your mouth, and the other in the air. See how much coke you get to drink... none. -- Regards Ross Tom Andersen wrote: > Ross, > Sucking air through the T fitting on a low wing airplane is definitely a concern. I > may not be able to incorporate or use a BOTH setting in all configurations. I > definitely want to know how every other low wing manages their fuel draw. On the high > wing, probably enough fuel flows via gravity not to induce air bubbles. (I thought > that standard procedure on GA aircraft is to do all flight maneuvers including takeoff > and landing on the RIGHT tank, and only use the both selection at cruise.) > Of course, the fuel tanks are not BELOW the t-fitting if you put it on the floor, in > fact, the t-fitting would be below the tank floors by 2 inches. I guess the question > is this: Would one stub wing tank drain out to the pump if the other tank was empty, > and would the resulting air bubbles cause fuel starvation on an Ellison? Ellison > states that incipient air bubbles are not a problem. I would think that no air bubbles > would enter the T fitting, and the pump would not suck any more bubbles than would > enter with gravity feed because the pump's throughput is related to the fuel flow the > engine uses, and a lot of suction would not be created, unless there is an internal > bypass in the facet pump. Anyone ever take a facet pump apart or know the internal > fuel routing? Could it cavitate? If I do a t-fitting or fuel flow selector, it would > behoove me to put it near the rear of the tank, so that at nose high attitudes I would > still have this tiny gravity feed to the selector. (I don't think I'll be able to run > a BOTH selection or T-fitting because of this concern. The BOTH selection may be > limited to cruise configuration with both tanks above 1/3 full or something.) > An additional concern of mine is that there's no engine driven fuel pump on a Soob. I > refuse to go without both a mechanical pump and an electrical pump. Thanks for > pointing that out and making me think Ross! > -Tom > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > I was thinking that in a slip of a high wing aircraft, you would still > > have gravity > > working to your advantage, especially if the "T" is below the lowest point of each > > wing. > > But with a low wing, if one end of a "T" becomes unported your fuel pump could > > start sucking air. > > Comments? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:23:32 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/CG of fuel tanks Ross, You're correct about checking the POH for that info. I don't think there would be negative pressure required to get the fuel out of the wing tanks to the selector valve at cruise, but in a climb there would be suction required to draw fuel, and in that case the open end WOULD starve the engine. So I'll not be installing a selector with BOTH as a choice. It will have to be Left, Right or OFF. Darn, OH WELL, it was worth the brain power to try and work out a BOTH setting. That would have been real nice. One thing I am going to do is to move the fuel CG closer to the airplane's CG by using the area ahead of the spar and landing gear for fuel, and make some pass-throughs under and above the spar. Then I'll put a 3/4" tube in place to run the aileron cable through, with nylon grommets at each end of course. I'll make the rear tank wall about 10 inches forward of the rear spar. This will utilize the deeper areas of the wing for more sump effect. If you're wondering about how I can run fuel under the spar, I'm using a root airfoil 12% larger, tapering out to the stub's normal size root airfoil, which will completely taper the wing planform. The additional thickness at the root will provide more lift, fair the airfoil to the fuse bottom smoothly, allow more fuel there, and be aesthetically pleasing. Maybe Mark (The CAD Cing) could tell me how many square inches are ahead of the main spar on a RAF48 106% root profile? It's probably only 3 gallons, but that's 3 gallons less behind the CG and 3 gallons more in front of the CG, although the moment arm to the CG is slightly different for each location. - -Tom Ross Youngblood wrote: > Tom, > > I never heard of the selection of "Right" fuel tank on GA aircraft as a standard, I thought > > "fullest" tank was more appropriate, but in all cases I think the appropriate selection is > based > on the POH (Pilot's Operating Handbook) for the aircraft. > > I'm not thinking air bubbles, when either end of a "T" fitting becomes exposed to > atmosphere > the pressure at the fuel pump inlet will see stmospheric pressure once the fuel remaining > in the > fitting is sucked out. Make a "T" fitting out of plastic tubing, place one end in a coke, > one in your > mouth, and the other in the air. See how much coke you get to drink... none. > > -- Regards > Ross > > Tom Andersen wrote: > > > Ross, > > Sucking air through the T fitting on a low wing airplane is definitely a concern. I > > may not be able to incorporate or use a BOTH setting in all configurations. I > > definitely want to know how every other low wing manages their fuel draw. On the high > > wing, probably enough fuel flows via gravity not to induce air bubbles. (I thought > > that standard procedure on GA aircraft is to do all flight maneuvers including takeoff > > and landing on the RIGHT tank, and only use the both selection at cruise.) > > Of course, the fuel tanks are not BELOW the t-fitting if you put it on the floor, in > > fact, the t-fitting would be below the tank floors by 2 inches. I guess the question > > is this: Would one stub wing tank drain out to the pump if the other tank was empty, > > and would the resulting air bubbles cause fuel starvation on an Ellison? Ellison > > states that incipient air bubbles are not a problem. I would think that no air bubbles > > would enter the T fitting, and the pump would not suck any more bubbles than would > > enter with gravity feed because the pump's throughput is related to the fuel flow the > > engine uses, and a lot of suction would not be created, unless there is an internal > > bypass in the facet pump. Anyone ever take a facet pump apart or know the internal > > fuel routing? Could it cavitate? If I do a t-fitting or fuel flow selector, it would > > behoove me to put it near the rear of the tank, so that at nose high attitudes I would > > still have this tiny gravity feed to the selector. (I don't think I'll be able to run > > a BOTH selection or T-fitting because of this concern. The BOTH selection may be > > limited to cruise configuration with both tanks above 1/3 full or something.) > > An additional concern of mine is that there's no engine driven fuel pump on a Soob. I > > refuse to go without both a mechanical pump and an electrical pump. Thanks for > > pointing that out and making me think Ross! > > -Tom > > > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > > I was thinking that in a slip of a high wing aircraft, you would still > > > have gravity > > > working to your advantage, especially if the "T" is below the lowest point of each > > > wing. > > > But with a low wing, if one end of a "T" becomes unported your fuel pump could > > > start sucking air. > > > Comments? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:40:46 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: RE: KR: East coast gathering Hello KRNet, Made Reservations for the Polk motel today for July 24th and 25th for the Gathering.... Just trying to find out who else is going to be at the "Roach Motel" ...??? By the way, the number is (931) 388-4913 if anyone is interested.... (Ramada and Days Inn are full because of some Farm Bureau Event).... Thomas Gatliff KR-2 Owner WannaBe.... :-) gatliff@mindspring.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > Behalf Of Richard Parker > Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:44 AM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering > > > > Does she prefer flying the standard or the stretched version? > > >Richard, don't talk about our KR Gal, Melody Mountains like that, I'll > give > >her a call and find out about "The Polk", course they probably give her > an > >hourly rate :-)). > > > >Same here guys, I'll be down as early as possible Friday and plan on > just > >hanging around the airport all day. If the weather is good for the > weekend > >I'll be flying a 1960 172, maroon/cream 7460T, either way be there by > at least > >noon. > > > >Dana Overall > >Richmond, KY > >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:49:09 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering Tom, I'll be at the Poke Notel Roach Motel on the 25th. See you there. - -Tom Andersen Thomas Gatliff wrote: > Hello KRNet, > > Made Reservations for the Polk motel today for July 24th and 25th for the > Gathering.... Just trying to find out who else is going to be at the "Roach > Motel" ...??? By the way, the number is (931) 388-4913 if anyone is > interested.... (Ramada and Days Inn are full because of some Farm Bureau > Event).... > > Thomas Gatliff > KR-2 Owner WannaBe.... :-) > gatliff@mindspring.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > > Behalf Of Richard Parker > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:44 AM > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering > > > > > > > > Does she prefer flying the standard or the stretched version? > > > > >Richard, don't talk about our KR Gal, Melody Mountains like that, I'll > > give > > >her a call and find out about "The Polk", course they probably give her > > an > > >hourly rate :-)). > > > > > >Same here guys, I'll be down as early as possible Friday and plan on > > just > > >hanging around the airport all day. If the weather is good for the > > weekend > > >I'll be flying a 1960 172, maroon/cream 7460T, either way be there by > > at least > > >noon. > > > > > >Dana Overall > > >Richmond, KY > > >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:56:13 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering 24th and 25th for me. Is anyone bringing a KR? > >Tom, >I'll be at the Poke Notel Roach Motel on the 25th. See you there. >-Tom Andersen > >Thomas Gatliff wrote: > >> Hello KRNet, >> >> Made Reservations for the Polk motel today for July 24th and 25th for the >> Gathering.... Just trying to find out who else is going to be at the "Roach >> Motel" ...??? By the way, the number is (931) 388-4913 if anyone is >> interested.... (Ramada and Days Inn are full because of some Farm Bureau >> Event).... >> >> Thomas Gatliff >> KR-2 Owner WannaBe.... :-) >> gatliff@mindspring.com >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On >> > Behalf Of Richard Parker >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:44 AM >> > To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> > Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering >> > >> > >> > >> > Does she prefer flying the standard or the stretched version? >> > >> > >Richard, don't talk about our KR Gal, Melody Mountains like that, I'll >> > give >> > >her a call and find out about "The Polk", course they probably give her >> > an >> > >hourly rate :-)). >> > > >> > >Same here guys, I'll be down as early as possible Friday and plan on >> > just >> > >hanging around the airport all day. If the weather is good for the >> > weekend >> > >I'll be flying a 1960 172, maroon/cream 7460T, either way be there by >> > at least >> > >noon. >> > > >> > >Dana Overall >> > >Richmond, KY >> > >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >> > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ >> > > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________________ >> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:58:47 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Nope - it was the cyanide. If you want all of the boring details, just ask - I'll be happy to pass it along (off KRNet.) Trust me Dean drdean@execpc.com From: Richard Parker To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:52 AM Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning > >It wasnt the cyanide that killed him. It was the smoke inhallation. >Pulmonary edema basically means his lungs got cooked by the hot smoke. > >Rich Parker >Jaffrey, NH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:11:30 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering In a message dated 98-06-19 16:56:53 EDT, you write: << 24th and 25th for me. Is anyone bringing a KR? >> This is kinda a quick list but so far (weather permitting) we have Bobby Muse, Jim Faughn, Troy (if his is flying again by then), Tom Crawford .............. go ahead Tom and make the reservations at "The Polk". The blurb went into this months KR Newsletter so hopefully the word will get out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for more than a handful (KR's that is, not Melody Mountains :-)). Does she like the standard or stretched version......boy I'm not touching that one. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:19:47 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: KR: East Coast Gathering Count me in for sure on Saturday. Friday still depends on my schedule at work. Reservations pending. Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:37:49 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Weights In a message dated 98-06-18 09:55:17 EDT, you write: << > http://a51.wetworks.org/Weights.html I'll post some weights on Brian's area 51 page over the weekend but I just finished weighing the whole thing just now so I'll post a quick summary. KR2 N616TJ Standard KR-2 RR turtle deck, canopy, canopy frame. built up wings, forward deck, fuel tank. Instument panel containing all engine gauges plus, DG, AH, Alt, VSI, panel mounted intercom, MX-11 com radio. All breakers installed and fully wired with switches for fuel pump, nav. lights, landing light, MAC servo elevator trim switch. No Flaps Dielh fixed gear, HAPI Acc. case, Slick 4316 Mag, Revflow carb, 4X1 crossover exhaust, intake, geared high torque starter, gascolator, solenoid, RR engine mount, GP built up 2180 with stroker crank, hub and Sterba 54 X 46 prop, GP alum spinner. Battery Standard tailwheel (will change this sometime) and wheel pants installed. Seat belts, no upholstery (just the sling seat for now) No finish applied yet, no brack fluid, no oil in engine, no cowling. OK here we go ..................... 537lbs. Sat. it's the engine off, use Mike's flip-o-matic (patent pending) and smooth prime the bottom of the stub wings. Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:58:11 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: East coast gathering At 06:11 PM 6/19/98 EDT, you wrote: >Does she like the standard or stretched version......boy I'm not touching that >one. > >Dana Overall Humm,...short, spuratic and squirrely or long solid and stable. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:33:38 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Elevator placement Can anyone tell me the distance from the front of the elevator spar to the front of the rudder post? cant seem to find it on the plans. If I put the front spar of the horiz stab over the "N" vertical there's not a lot of room for the elevator arm to swing. I guess thats why the plans say leave station "n" out. (I saw that note too late) I'm also curious about the dimensions accross the top of the vert stab. They are left off the "2S" drawings but sure dont look like there the same as the "-2" Any suggestions? Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:54:02 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: KR: RE: Insurance??? Can you get insurance on a KR-2??? Just wondering.. Thomas Gatliff KR-2 Owner Wannabe.. gatliff@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:02:49 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: RE: Insurance??? Yes, I am currently with Costello Associates at about $750/year with hull insurance. (800-528-6483). If anyone has a cheaper agent...jump in. Ron Lee At 07:54 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Can you get insurance on a KR-2??? > >Just wondering.. > >Thomas Gatliff >KR-2 Owner Wannabe.. >gatliff@mindspring.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:07:49 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: RE: KR: RE: Insurance??? Does that cover liability??.... Like for instance you crash into someones house.. Will it cover the house??... Also how many hours do they like to see... I only have about 130 hours > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > Behalf Of Ron Lee > Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:03 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: RE: Insurance??? > > > Yes, I am currently with Costello Associates at about $750/year with hull > insurance. (800-528-6483). > > If anyone has a cheaper agent...jump in. > > Ron Lee > > > At 07:54 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Can you get insurance on a KR-2??? > > > >Just wondering.. > > > >Thomas Gatliff > >KR-2 Owner Wannabe.. > >gatliff@mindspring.com > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:11:38 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator placement At 04:33 PM 6/19/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me the distance from the front of the elevator spar to >the front of the rudder post? cant seem to find it on the plans. > I don't know if its on the plans but this is one of those areas where I would make a little change. There just aint much room inside the fuselage for the elevator horn to do its thing. I would have made the vertical post wider at the base so I had more room down there but that's over and done on my project. I found that I had to use a ruler on the 1/4 scale drawing to figure out a lot of the measurements. Kinda hokey but that's what I did. >If I put the front spar of the horiz stab over the "N" vertical there's >not a lot of room for the elevator arm to swing. I guess thats why the >plans say leave station "n" out. (I saw that note too late) > >I'm also curious about the dimensions accross the top of the vert stab. >They are left off the "2S" drawings but sure dont look like there the >same as the "-2" > Do you mean how big it is fore and aft looking from the side view? Once again break out that ruler! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:18:08 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Micheal Mims wrote: > he hit the ground pretty damn hard and was sitting > inverted. This sounds like a crash that could and would kill almost > anyone regardless of aircraft type. > > The other day I was sitting under my plane with my head up inside the > cockpit (the door is off at this time and the plane is inverted) and > realized it would be a pain in the butt to try and get out of this thing > if it ever flipped over on its back. I am planning on having an emergency egress tool stowed in a handy place. I will be modifying a small drywall saw. It has a sharp point and very agressive teeth. The back edge can be sharpened like a knife blade. I will attach it to a short piece of steel tubing, filled with enough lead to give it some "punch". It could be used to "open" the plexiglass or cut through the side or bottom very quickly. Naturally, this is a tool of last resort, but if you are upside down in field with no one around and smoke is starting to fill the cockpit, you want out in a hurry. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:17:10 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Insurance??? At 07:54 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Can you get insurance on a KR-2??? > >Just wondering.. > Insurance is a tricky thing with homebuilts. Someone told me the other day that AVEMCO would not insure a homebuilt in its flight testing phase if it was running a Subaru. Unless that Subaru came from certain vendors. I wonder what their position is on VW engines that are built up by the owner and not from GP or TEC? What about Lycomings and Continentals that are built by non A&Ps? This could get interesting if you couldn't get insurance at the time you may need it most. But the answer to your question is YES you can get insurance on a KR-2. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:20:49 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: RE: KR: RE: Insurance??? I think it was $1,000,000 liability but maybe only $500,000. I only had about 180 hours when I started with them. May not even be at 200 now. Give them a call and find out what the price breaks are as far as experience levels. I just am not sure. Ron At 08:07 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >Does that cover liability??.... Like for instance you crash into someones >house.. Will it cover the house??... Also how many hours do they like to >see... I only have about 130 hours > >> >> >> Yes, I am currently with Costello Associates at about $750/year with hull >> insurance. (800-528-6483). >> >> If anyone has a cheaper agent...jump in. >> >> Ron Lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:30:18 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Virginia State EAA Flyin Next Saturday and Sunday, 27-28, will be the second annual Virginia State fly-in. There were no KR's there last year, I am hoping to see at least one this year. http://www.vaeaa.com If anyone comes, look for a really tall guy parking airplanes and say Hi. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:32:23 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Va Fly-in OPPS - It is http://www.vaeaa.org - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:54:12 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: RE: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning Normally I dont get into discussions like this but this time I cant resist.... Chances are if your KR is inverted and is on fire, you probably would be in no condition to "Saw" anything.....(Especially considering the way that the KR canopy was designed) And as long as were "brainstorming" of ideas of how to get out, bring a 45 cal. hand gun with you ... It can be used for multiple tasks ,and after pulling the trigger one or two times(obviously while being inverted), there would be a "hole" plenty big enough to climb out of(but unfortunately nothing left of your "poor" KR)....besides the hand gun would be considerable lighter than your "weighted" hand saw. (Just a thought... Please dont be offended by this) :-) Tom gatliff@mindspring.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > Behalf Of Donald Reid > Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 8:18 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/ header tanks leaking/u-foam burning > > > Micheal Mims wrote: > > he hit the ground pretty damn hard and was sitting > > inverted. This sounds like a crash that could and would kill almost > > anyone regardless of aircraft type. > > > > The other day I was sitting under my plane with my head up inside the > > cockpit (the door is off at this time and the plane is inverted) and > > realized it would be a pain in the butt to try and get out of this thing > > if it ever flipped over on its back. > > I am planning on having an emergency egress tool stowed in a handy > place. I will be modifying a small drywall saw. It has a sharp point > and very agressive teeth. The back edge can be sharpened like a knife > blade. I will attach it to a short piece of steel tubing, filled with > enough lead to give it some "punch". It could be used to "open" the > plexiglass or cut through the side or bottom very quickly. Naturally, > this is a tool of last resort, but if you are upside down in field with > no one around and smoke is starting to fill the cockpit, you want out in > a hurry. > > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com > KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html > ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #100 *****************************