From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 2:14 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #105 krnet-l-digest Friday, June 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 105 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:09:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: testing just testing netscape 4.05 email client ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:57:00 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: KR: Planes/project FS: Trade a Plane, 2nd Jun 98 issue Info summarized. Contact seller for full details. Ron Lee 1) KR-II Show quality, 2180 Revmaster, 110 hrs, $19,500 972-723-2446, taildragger 2) KR-2, $8900, taildragger, HAPI 1835 CC VW, Bob Adams, mistic@vci.net or 502-443-8773 3) KR2 project , 60% complete (I suspect 35-40% - editor), $2500, 309-523-2118 after 530 pm central time ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:30:16 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: KR: Center Spar web problem Netters, Right off the bat, let me state that what I did was stupid, and now I need help. I am now building the spars, more accurately, building the center main spar. In my enthusiasm to be finally working on the plane again, I figured that I could cut and scarf one of the plywood webs to the right dimensions, then clue the spar caps and vertical members in place on top of the web - all in one shot. I used clamps to apply pressure and hold the spar caps / vertical members in place and then piled stuff on top of this to apply pressure to the web. Stupid! I might have gotten away with it if I had used enough epoxy on the backs of the spar caps - but, no. Well, what I have now are several areas along the webbing that are not bonded to the spar cap. There are also a lot of areas that did form an adequate joint. All of the vertical members are now one with the web. I REALLY don't want to cut this web off - it would be a huge job. Is there any way to adequately fill these areas? The spaces that I am talking about are three 3-4" areas along the upper cap and 3 or 4 areas along the bottom cap. If I have to bite the bullet here I'll do it - but, man, I am looking for good ideas. Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:53:01 +0200 From: Michele Bucceri Subject: Re: KR: spars cracks aabbcc01@infonie.fr wrote: > > I know it's what i dont like on this design for me it's more good to stay > undrilled the spar caps.and in all design of spar what i can to see never > the spar caps are drilled it's only some reinforcement in vertical members > are drilled. > aabbcc01, If you are too much worried about drilling your spar, you can adopt this kind of reinforcement: at the end of the spar put a spruce block like in my detailed drawing (side view of the spar). The weakness induced by holes, is completly compensated by the reinforcement. It will add a few grams in your bird, but if this help you to don't get scared while flying , do it. _______________ | | SPAR CAP |_______________ | | | / | / | / | | | | <--- Reinforcement (spruce) | \ | \ | \ |________|______ | | SPAR CAP |___________________ Ciao, Michele - -- MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB Michele Bucceri E-mail: mailto:michele.bucceri@italtel.it MBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMBMB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:12:47 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: wing tanks/CG of fuel tanks Tom Andersen wrote (a long, long time ago): > Maybe Mark (The CAD Cing) could tell me how many square > inches are ahead of the main spar on a > RAF48 106% root profile? Tom, by eliminating the 10" in front of the aft spar, you'll lose .19 gallons per inch of tank span (assuming 1/2" thick top and bottom tank walls). Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:49:57 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR:Wing tanks In a message dated 98-06-24 21:47:18 EDT, you write: << How much fuel does your header tank hold? My KR header tank(only tank) holds 18.5 gals. and my dad's header tank holds 22.5 gals. KISS Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX >> Bobby, I'm a little bit long and lancky so I moved the panel forward a little but I still ended with a header tank that will hold about 14 gals. After seeing your plane at Columbia in 1995, I decided to make the tank removeable. I will have a small instrument panel "dash" that will be removable from the the rear of the forward deck/header tank where I will be able to access the rear of the panel. If I need to really get in there all I will have to do is uncouple the fuel line in front of the shutoff valve, pull the piano hinges on the sides of the forward deck, and remove the whole unit. Man, when I first heard your tank was 18.5 gallons I thought that was huge, but your Dad's at 22.5, we're talking "the big dog" :-)), I would have liked to have had about 16, but heck with the 2180 and my bladder these days, I believe it'll work out OK. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:12:58 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Columbia, TN Well guys it seems momentum is building a little faster than we thought when Mark & I first floated this idea between us. Good Deal. Our intention is for this to be a nice, fun, informal event with a lot of hanging out at the airport, meeting everyone and just generally talking, seeing and flying KRs. In this month's newsletter it says that we have discount rooms (The Polk) and that we are going to have a dinner Sat. night. We could cater the thing or Mark & I say that we put a keg of beer, coolers of pop, maybe a couple of grills at the airport during the day and if everyone wants to get together for a dinner we all go to the local pizza place and swamp it. Troy says that's no problem and he could take care of that. This thing could be pretty good size (my guess min. 30-35 max 60-65) and since we on the KRnet are putting it together send your vote in. Be sure and bring your photos and any "extra stuff" you might want to unload. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:44:21 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Re:Wing tanks Bobby Muse wrote: > > At 07:53 AM 6/24/98 EDT, you wrote: > >I > >Contributing factor (as the FAA said), inadequate fuel flow due too poorly > >designed fuel system. I'm not going into it because I knew him. Guys don't > >over complicate these things. > >As for my header tank, I haven't done it but I know you could stand on the > >thing. > > > >Dana Overall > >Richmond, KY > >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > > > How fuel does your header tank hold? My KR header tank(only tank) holds > 18.5 gals. and my dad's header tank holds 22.5 gals. > KISS > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX Hi Gang, Right on Bobby, kiss, kiss, KISS. I notice some want everything in their KR but the kitchen sink. Heavy! With 12 gals. left and right and 15 gal. in the header. Boy! that's a longer than my kidneys could stand. And I am not too fond of Little John. My tank is a 15.5Imp gal/18.6gal US and it is more than adequate for anywhere I want to go. Anyway it is nice to land at some remote airport and meet a lot of nice people. Times I have had to overnight, I have always hangered overnight. Most places have an overnight hangering fee however, I have not paid it once. The usual response I get, I could not charge you for that cute little airplane. Sometimes it's called a sexy looking airplane, but I don't know what is sexy about a KR. It is so easy to park under the wing of a C150. One can have a nice, efficient KR by using the KISS principle, no doubt about it. Happy Flying!!!! - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:17:12 -0700 From: Mel Poradun Subject: KR: Arlington Flyin Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. Mel Poradun mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:45:43 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Columbia, TN >In this month's newsletter it says that we have discount rooms (The Polk) and >that we are going to have a dinner Sat. night. We could cater the thing or >Mark & I say that we put a keg of beer, coolers of pop, maybe a couple of >grills at the airport during the day and if everyone wants to get together for >a dinner we all go to the local pizza place and swamp it. My vote is for Burgers, Dogs and Soda's at the Hanger, then somewhere that evening. Maybe even check out the local attractions. Maybe the local Scouts or CAP cadets would be willing to put on the food. It might be a good fundraiser for them. ( and we wouldnt have to clean up!) Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:48:53 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: wing tanks/CG of fuel tanks Thanks Mark! That amounts to about 4 gallons per side, so with the 4 gallons per side I'll gain in the LE, my fuel CG should be just about on or maybe only 2 inches behind the main spar. This would practically eliminate inflight CG shifts due to fuel burn, and I'd have a much deeper area in which to pick up fuel. Is there any way to determine where the CG of this tank would be? I would think the middle of the total area would be the CG. - -Tom Mark Langford wrote: > Tom Andersen wrote (a long, long time ago): > > > Maybe Mark (The CAD Cing) could tell me how many square > > inches are ahead of the main spar on a > > RAF48 106% root profile? > > Tom, > > by eliminating the 10" in front of the aft spar, you'll lose .19 gallons per > inch of tank span (assuming 1/2" thick top and bottom tank walls). > > Mark Langford > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:22:04 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Center Spar web problem Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: Big snip > Well, what I have now are several areas along the webbing that are not > bonded to the spar cap. There are also a lot of areas that did form an > adequate joint. All of the vertical members are now one with the web. I > REALLY don't want to cut this web off - it would be a huge job. Is there > any way to adequately fill these areas? The spaces that I am talking about > are three 3-4" areas along the upper cap and 3 or 4 areas along the bottom > cap. Well Dr. Dean, I have thought about this one for a while and I can't think of any easy way. Other people may have different answers. The several ways that I come up with are as follows: 1) Find someone with a good planner. If possible, one that uses a wide sandpaper roll instead of a set of knives. Making thin cuts and multiple passes through the planner, remove the entire shear web. 2) Cut out the defective areas of the shear web with a router and a morticing (bad spelling) bit. It can be set to an accurate depth and not cut into the spar cap material. With available tools, taper the good shear web material and then scarf in patches. The drawback of the first method is the material wasted. It is also possible that it could damage the spar cap material. If you go this way, I would make a sample piece of spar and test it first. The advantage of this method is that you know that you removed all bad areas. The second method is a more efficient use of material, but has the drawback of not being absolutely certain that all bad areas have been removed. For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:44:29 -0700 From: george robertson Subject: Re: KR: Arlington Flyin At 07:17 AM 6/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR >builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders >and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. > >Mel Poradun >mporadun@gte.net > HI MEL I WILL BE GOING UP ON THURS, PROBABLY ARRIVE 3-4 PM. WILL PROBABLY CAMP THRU SAT. AND LEAVE SUN. AM. I WILL POST A NOTE ON THE BULLETIN BOARD WHEN I GET THERE. LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING YOU. GEORGE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:22:49 -0400 From: smithr Subject: KR: multiple mistakes Larry Flesner wrote: > Something I have noted over the years is that accidents seldem have > a single cause. It is usually several mistakes or events that stack up > until you run out of options. I vividly remember an incident in my pilot training where I blew a landing on a narrow, short strip and did what I thought would be an easy go-around. My CFI and I almost didn't clear the tall trees at the far end of the runway. When it was all over, I counted about six separate errors that I had made and about 2 the CFI made. Seems that often (not always) you can make one error a get away with it. Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:08:32 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: Arlington Flyin I'll be coming up for the show & will spend at least a day there. An overnight might be in the cards if there's enough to look at... We met up last year and spent an enjoyable hour at the picnic tables just south of the food court last year. What about a repeat gathering guys? John Bouyea kr2 - on the gear kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Mel Poradun > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Arlington Flyin > Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 7:17 AM > > Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR > builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders > and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. > > Mel Poradun > mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:19:30 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: Arlington Flyin Yea: I will be there Saturday. Maybe we can all meet at the bar bee Q pit like last year. I will be by myself since my wife has some meetings. Anyone for meeting saturday at the bbq pit??? Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - -------------- Mel Poradun wrote: > > Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR > builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders > and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. > > Mel Poradun > mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:56:35 -0600 From: "gary" Subject: RE: KR: Arlington Flyin Say a time--maybe before the evening entertainment? I will probably be there Gary Glasgow > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@teleport.com]On > Behalf Of MARVIN MCCOY > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 1998 7:20 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Arlington Flyin > > > Yea: I will be there Saturday. Maybe we can all meet at the bar bee Q > pit like last year. I will be by myself since my wife has some > meetings. > Anyone for meeting saturday at the bbq pit??? > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net > -------------- > > Mel Poradun wrote: > > > > Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR > > builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders > > and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. > > > > Mel Poradun > > mporadun@gte.net > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:28:08 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Columbia, TN At 08:12 6/25/98 EDT, Dana Overall wrote: >Well guys it seems momentum is building a little faster than we thought when >Mark & I first floated this idea between us. Good Deal. Our intention is for >this to be a nice, fun, informal event with a lot of hanging out at the >airport, meeting everyone and just generally talking, seeing and flying KRs. >snip > I will be there! Hot dogs, burgers, pizza, beer and KR's ... It dont get any better than that! Maybe we could pass a hat around to cover the cost and send any extra to Ross to help keep KRnet funded. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:41 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR:Wing tanks At 07:49 AM 6/25/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-24 21:47:18 EDT, you write: > ><< How much fuel does your header tank hold? My KR header tank(only tank) >holds > 18.5 gals. and my dad's header tank holds 22.5 gals. > KISS > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX >> > If I need to really get in there all I will have to do is >uncouple the fuel line in front of the shutoff valve, pull the piano hinges on >the sides of the forward deck, and remove the whole unit. This exactly how I did my tank. It takes only two minutes to remove the tank once the fuel is out. >Man, when I first heard your tank was 18.5 gallons I thought that was huge, >but your Dad's at 22.5, we're talking "the big dog" :-)), I would have liked >to have had about 16, but heck with the 2180 and my bladder these days, I >believe it'll work out OK. > >Dana Overall > After flying about three hours I need to find an airport. I believe that 15 Gals. with a 2180cc is about perfect. Keep it simple. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:45 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Center Spar web problem At 12:22 PM 6/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: > >Big snip > >> Well, what I have now are several areas along the webbing that are not >> bonded to the spar cap. There are also a lot of areas that did form an >> adequate joint. All of the vertical members are now one with the web. I >> REALLY don't want to cut this web off - it would be a huge job. Is there >> any way to adequately fill these areas? The spaces that I am talking about >> are three 3-4" areas along the upper cap and 3 or 4 areas along the bottom >> cap. > >Well Dr. Dean, I have thought about this one for a while and I can't >think of any easy way. Other people may have different answers. > >The several ways that I come up with are as follows: > >1) Find someone with a good planner. If possible, one that uses a wide >sandpaper roll instead of a set of knives. Making thin cuts and >multiple passes through the planner, remove the entire shear web. > >2) Cut out the defective areas of the shear web with a router and a >morticing (bad spelling) bit. It can be set to an accurate depth and >not cut into the spar cap material. With available tools, taper the >good shear web material and then scarf in patches. > >The drawback of the first method is the material wasted. It is also >possible that it could damage the spar cap material. If you go this >way, I would make a sample piece of spar and test it first. The >advantage of this method is that you know that you removed all bad >areas. > >The second method is a more efficient use of material, but has the >drawback of not being absolutely certain that all bad areas have been >removed. > >For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced >about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, >with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order >to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the >screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. > > >-- >Don Reid >Bumpass, Va. My suggestions: #1 Cut/remove the web(assuming all spruce joint are good) and don't take short cuts when replacing the web. #2 Scrap the spar and start over Plan ahead and keep it simple! Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:38:38 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Center Spar web problem Dean, I have to say I'd be tempted to run it thru a planer and try to salvage the spar caps and verticals, but punt the plywood. Epoxy doesn't stick very well to unprepared epoxy (which is what you've got down in those cracks). If the caps end up a little thin (front to back) because of over planing, then I'd just add strips of spruce to the front and back of the spar after the next round of plywood was glued on (sort of like an I-beam). Or, you could always run the caps thru a table saw and use them for outer spar caps or some other useful purpose, and order new spruce for your center section spar. This would certainly be the "cleanest" solution if you can't recover any other way. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I scrapped my first center spar too. I've been slicing off pieces of it ever since. Didn't laminate the caps well enough for my liking. I've been slicing off pieces of it ever since. And if that's not enough, the other night (after preparing and fretting over it for days), I finally made the first cut on my outer spars, and promptly discovered I'd cut the first taper backwards! Why is it that I double check my work AFTER I make the cut, rather than BEFORE? Fortunately, I had enough meat left so that it didn't really matter, and my spars are overbuilt by about 15% anyway. Get used to it. It's a learning process...welcome to the club. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:40:04 From: * Flesner * Subject: KR: using staples for glueing ===================snip====================== >For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced >about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, >with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order >to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the >screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. >-- >Don ======== =================== ================= fellow builders, Whenever using staples to hold down ply when glueing, use a piece of string and staple it down under each staple as you move along your work. After the glue has set you can start pulling on one end of the string and pull up at least one leg on each staple. The staple can then be removed with a pair of pliers. I don't recall where I came on this trick but it works well if you use a strong enough string. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:04:33 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: using staples for glueing I use safety wire. It never breaks; it never fails to pull at least one leg of the staple out, often both of them. I ran two lengths along the longerons and short ones on the uprights. The long pieces are just right for the spars. Plus, it's totally reusable for all the rest of your stapling... John Bouyea kr2 - on the gear kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: * Flesner * > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: using staples for glueing > Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 3:40 PM > > > ===================snip====================== > > >For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced > >about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, > >with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order > >to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the > >screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. > > >-- > >Don > > ======== =================== ================= > > > fellow builders, > > Whenever using staples to hold down ply when glueing, use a > piece of string and staple it down under each staple as you > move along your work. After the glue has set you can start > pulling on one end of the string and pull up at least one leg > on each staple. The staple can then be removed with a pair > of pliers. I don't recall where I came on this trick but it works well if you > use a strong enough string. > > Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:05:57 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR: Re: RE: Center Spar web problem Mark, Are you going with the 18% spar -or- the 15% for the new airfoil? John Bouyea kr2 - on the gear kr2s - building the spars Hillsboro, Oregon - ---------- > From: Mark Langford > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: RE: Center Spar web problem > Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 8:38 PM > > Dean, > > I have to say I'd be tempted to run it thru a planer and try to salvage the > spar caps and verticals, but punt the plywood. Epoxy doesn't stick very > well to unprepared epoxy (which is what you've got down in those cracks). > If the caps end up a little thin (front to back) because of over planing, > then I'd just add strips of spruce to the front and back of the spar after > the next round of plywood was glued on (sort of like an I-beam). Or, you > could always run the caps thru a table saw and use them for outer spar caps > or some other useful purpose, and order new spruce for your center section > spar. This would certainly be the "cleanest" solution if you can't recover > any other way. > > Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I scrapped my first center spar too. I've > been slicing off pieces of it ever since. Didn't laminate the caps well > enough for my liking. I've been slicing off pieces of it ever since. And > if that's not enough, the other night (after preparing and fretting over it > for days), I finally made the first cut on my outer spars, and promptly > discovered I'd cut the first taper backwards! Why is it that I double check > my work AFTER I make the cut, rather than BEFORE? Fortunately, I had > enough meat left so that it didn't really matter, and my spars are overbuilt > by about 15% anyway. > > Get used to it. It's a learning process...welcome to the club. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:21:49 -0700 From: "John F. Esch" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Arlington Flyin Rats, I have drill that weekend, again!!! John F. Esch Salem, OR John Bouyea wrote: > I'll be coming up for the show & will spend at least a day there. An > overnight might be in the cards if there's enough to look at... > > We met up last year and spent an enjoyable hour at the picnic tables > just > south of the food court last year. What about a repeat gathering > guys? > > John Bouyea > kr2 - on the gear > kr2s - building the spars > Hillsboro, Oregon > > ---------- > > From: Mel Poradun > > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > > Subject: KR: Arlington Flyin > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 7:17 AM > > > > Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR > > builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other > builders > > and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. > > > > Mel Poradun > > mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:46:19 -0700 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: Re: KR: Center Spar web problem Hi there, There are really no quick fixes for the problem. The simplest solution would be to plane off (bit by bit) the web. Check the remainder of the assembly and join on a new web. Hopefully, the rest of it will be OK. All the best! Marty - -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Muse To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 25 June, 1998 19:53 Subject: Re: KR: Center Spar web problem >At 12:22 PM 6/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Dean R. Collette, MD wrote: >> >>Big snip >> >>> Well, what I have now are several areas along the webbing that are not >>> bonded to the spar cap. There are also a lot of areas that did form an >>> adequate joint. All of the vertical members are now one with the web. I >>> REALLY don't want to cut this web off - it would be a huge job. Is there >>> any way to adequately fill these areas? The spaces that I am talking about >>> are three 3-4" areas along the upper cap and 3 or 4 areas along the bottom >>> cap. >> >>Well Dr. Dean, I have thought about this one for a while and I can't >>think of any easy way. Other people may have different answers. >> >>The several ways that I come up with are as follows: >> >>1) Find someone with a good planner. If possible, one that uses a wide >>sandpaper roll instead of a set of knives. Making thin cuts and >>multiple passes through the planner, remove the entire shear web. >> >>2) Cut out the defective areas of the shear web with a router and a >>morticing (bad spelling) bit. It can be set to an accurate depth and >>not cut into the spar cap material. With available tools, taper the >>good shear web material and then scarf in patches. >> >>The drawback of the first method is the material wasted. It is also >>possible that it could damage the spar cap material. If you go this >>way, I would make a sample piece of spar and test it first. The >>advantage of this method is that you know that you removed all bad >>areas. >> >>The second method is a more efficient use of material, but has the >>drawback of not being absolutely certain that all bad areas have been >>removed. >> >>For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced >>about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, >>with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order >>to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the >>screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. >> >> >>-- >>Don Reid >>Bumpass, Va. > > >My suggestions: #1 Cut/remove the web(assuming all spruce joint >are good) and don't take short cuts when replacing the >web. > > #2 Scrap the spar and start over > >Plan ahead and keep it simple! > > Bobby Muse(N122B) > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:53:43 -0700 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: Re: using staples for glueing Hi All, I did exactly the same. Worked like a charm and also reused the wire to finish all the stapling. All the best! Marty - -----Original Message----- From: John Bouyea To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 25 June, 1998 22:16 Subject: KR: Re: using staples for glueing >I use safety wire. It never breaks; it never fails to pull at least one >leg of the staple out, often both of them. I ran two lengths along the >longerons and short ones on the uprights. The long pieces are just right >for the spars. > >Plus, it's totally reusable for all the rest of your stapling... > >John Bouyea >kr2 - on the gear >kr2s - building the spars >Hillsboro, Oregon > >---------- >> From: * Flesner * >> To: krnet-l@teleport.com >> Subject: KR: using staples for glueing >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 3:40 PM >> >> >> ===================snip====================== >> >> >For what it is worth, when I did my spars, I used 3/8" staples, spaced >> >about 1/2 - 3/4" apart. To remove them, I used a small screwdriver, >> >with a slight curve bent into the blade, and it was very sharp in order >> >to pry under the staples. Also a small scrap of plywood under the >> >screwdriver to prevent damage to the shear web. >> >> >-- >> >Don >> >> ======== =================== ================= >> >> >> fellow builders, >> >> Whenever using staples to hold down ply when glueing, use a >> piece of string and staple it down under each staple as you >> move along your work. After the glue has set you can start >> pulling on one end of the string and pull up at least one leg >> on each staple. The staple can then be removed with a pair >> of pliers. I don't recall where I came on this trick but it works well >if you >> use a strong enough string. >> >> Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:01:17 -0700 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: Re: KR: Arlington Flyin Hi All! Have been planning on Arlington since last year. Our EAA Chapter usually does the camp out. Unfortunately, unless I can pull a rabbit out of a hat, this will be the first year I won't be attending. I'll see if I can get up there for a while though. Would love to see all who attend. All the best! Marty - -----Original Message----- From: MARVIN MCCOY To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 25 June, 1998 18:21 Subject: Re: KR: Arlington Flyin >Yea: I will be there Saturday. Maybe we can all meet at the bar bee Q >pit like last year. I will be by myself since my wife has some >meetings. > Anyone for meeting saturday at the bbq pit??? > >Marvin McCoy >Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field >mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net >-------------- > >Mel Poradun wrote: >> >> Is anyone going to the Arlington flyin in July? Hoping to see KR >> builders and some KR aircraft. Would like to meet with other builders >> and talk homebuilt KR aircraft. >> >> Mel Poradun >> mporadun@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:15:56 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: new fuselage geometry > Are you going with the 18% spar -or- the 15% for the new airfoil? John, I'm using the 16% AS5046 at the root, and the 15% AS5045 at the tip. Had I not had my fuselage built already I could have altered the spar spacing and used the 15% at root and tip. Really the spars need to be closer together to do this right, since the front spar needs to be located a few inches farther aft on the airfoil. That's because the center of ift is further aft for the new airfoils. I guess I need to sit down and look at this situation and come up with a recommendation as to how far forward the aft spar should be moved. Just guessing, I'd say about 6 inches. I'd probably leave the main where it is and slide the aft (and the airfoil) forward. Let me draw something up on this. Also, the wind tunnel data and stability analysis need to be finished before we can say with absolute certainty. In my case, My front spar is way too far forward (at the stock 25% location) which is going to force me to use carbon fiber (you're breakin' my heart) for wing skins to stiffen the wing (torque box) to resist the higher aft loading. My aft spar is considerably beefier already, considering I'm using larger alilerons (located further out) and much larger flaps. Bottom line is that the fuselage truss needs to be modified so that the aft spar is farther forward, and both spars can be a little taller (and lighter). The 18% airfoil opens up a whole 'nother set of possibilities as well... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:26:07 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Center Spar web problem In a message dated 98-06-25 23:42:56 EDT, Mark writes: << I have to say I'd be tempted to run it thru a planer and try to salvage the spar caps and verticals, but punt the plywood. Get used to it. It's a learning process...welcome to the club. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama Dean, I know you are looking for a quick, but efficeint fix, but I have to go with the majority here. I think a planner is in order. Not trying to be funny here but if you are not willing to do it at least twice, don't build an airplane. As Mark says, it's a definite learning curve. Man, I've got enough "first time" parts that I could get a good start on another one :-)). Good Luck Dean. PS. Dean, I'll bring that tailstring piece with me to TN. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:14:02 -0500 From: "Dean R. Collette, MD" Subject: KR: Spar web prob. update Netters, Thanks for all of the advice. I took the spar to a local millwork shop today. He had a planer that could be set to remove as little as 1/128th" at a time. I knew I was at the right place when I pulled up and saw a C-182 in the process of having her wings reskinned and gear rebuilt. A total of 10 passes removed the web but left the spar caps intact. A little sanding and cleanup work and we are ready to try again (right this time.) Oh, FWIW, prior to planing the web off I wanted to know how big the areas that didn't bond were, so, I brought the spar to work with me. (Yes, I got a couple of funny looks carrying the center spar section into the hospital.) I blew barium powder into the void areas and then x-rayed the thing. What I quickly realized was that the voids that I could see were just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks again Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:14:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: New airfoils are paid for Now that the wind tunnel testing on the new airfoils has completed I have had a chance to go back through the contributions and everything has been paid for. No more contributions are needed. Ashok had to leave for his summer job almost immediately after finishing the wind tunnel testing so hasn't had time to finish the full report on the test results. Basically, all went well and we have three new airfoils to take us into the 21st century. Look for an interrum report on the airfoils soon. In case any of you haven't heard, Ashok is working for Rutan at Scaled Composites for the Summer. Scaled has a polich of not hiring Summer Interns but Ashok got special consideration due to all of the airfoil research he has done. Thanks to all KRNet members that made this possible. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. When once you have tasted flight you will always walk with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be. --Leonardo da Vinci ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #105 *****************************