From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, July 11, 1998 4:57 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #117 krnet-l-digest Saturday, July 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 117 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:54:19 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: KR: kr-1 project for sale Thanks for all the interest. I am located in Thomasville, Ga. which is about 35 miles north of Tallahassee, Fla. As far as asking price... if what I have isn't worth $1k, it's not worth selling. I have the engine (vw) fitted for aircraft use (slick mag, posi carb, dihl case, etc.) All wood work is complete. I have glassed the horizontal stab. The wings are complete but need to be stripped and re-done (I have materials for construction, Foam, epoxy, glass cloth, etc. all purchased from aircraft spruce.) The rear deck is ready to attach to fuse. Retract gear. Some instruments but old. Sterbra prop. I purchased the plane completely built and stripped it down for a complete re-build. I have pitures I could have scanned if interest is high enough. Thanks, Darrin West mailto:dwest@rose.net see picture of fuse at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:10:32 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: How to get to Perry Gentlemen: I am planning to go to the Gathering in Perry OK this year. What is the best way to get there (commercial). Thanks Haris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:56:22 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Wieght and balance spreadsheet? One of my W&B spreadsheets is imbedded into Rick's test plan with the proper caveats in it as well. It is easy enough to modify for your own use. If there is alot of interest, I could develop a couple of spread sheets targeted specifically to the stock KR-2 and Stock KR-2S in both tailwheel and trigear configurations. That would only be about an hour or so of work. Have fun with the Starduster Mark! - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:40:36 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > >Didn't somebody post or volunteer a weight and balance spreadsheet >(geared >for KRs, maybe?) a while back? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:40:33 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Tri gear. Of course RRE doesn't tell you how to mount the gear because you won't be buying the gear from them. Buy the Diehl Gear package as it seems to be the simplest and best you can get ahold of. Dan would probably be happy to FAX or mail you the instructions for mounting his gear. If not, I'm sure some others on this list would. The Diehl gear mounts to the main spar inside the wing stubs for either taildragger or trigear. With the trigear, you just swap the gear to the opposite side and mount it to the back of the spar. Dan also sells a nosewheel kit that bolts to the firewall. As Bobby Muse ofter says, KISS. Take a look at his Diehl trigear setup. It is very simple, very nice, very functional and tough as nails. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:30:05 -0500 Trent Flemming writes: >Apparently the fun continues, that was my next question regarding >where do >the plans tell how to build a tri gear. If that is the case that Rand >Robinson only hands the supplements upon ordering of the parts from >them, >than that is a real bummer. I planned on buying my stuff where i >could find >the best deal and as much of as i could afford at once. I had no >intention >on buying the Kit Groups from R.R., as I have already purchased my >spruce >from a local Aviation Shop and beat the shipping charge and back order >wait. >I hope that doesn't mean that i have excluded myself from a complete >set of >plans. What a disappointing first day building, :( WAIT! I have an >idea, >I will tell the FAA inspector that due to a monopoly setup in CA, and >possible antitrust laws being broken, that I proceded to build the >KR-2S >without a complete set of plans and that i just put things where they >looked >good. All the while giving him my best Cross-eyed look. > >All kidding aside, I guess i will call R.R. and beg. And continue to >use >the excellent Web pages and Kr Email for my best guestament. > >Thank you to Mike Mimms and Donald Reid for your quick respones on my >fuselage question, that sure is helpful when you get stuck and don't >want >to have to quit for an entire day. > > >At 06:04 PM 7/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Genseric@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> I'm planning on building my KR-2S with the tri-gear, and would like >to >know more about it. The plans don't really detail much on them so can >any >one tell me where I can find more info on it. >> >>Another interesting issue with the KR2S plans, they don't tell you >how >>to attach the landing gear, canopy, turtledecks, instrument panel, >and a >>few other things. I was told I would get those supplements when I >>purchased the parts. So your options are to purchase the parts of >surf >>the many websites here on KRNet to find out. Good Luck. >> >> >>-- >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims >>SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >>mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >>Irvine Ca >>Fax 949.856.9417 >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:32:37 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: How to get to Perry The best way is to fly in in your KR. Any other method is second best. :o) The second best would be to fly into Oklahoma City and rent a car or carpool up from there. Last year one of the guys stopped in OK City with a van for some of the Gathering attendies. Other net members coordinated their flights and rented a single car for several attendies. Your local travel agent will be happy to shop for the cheapest airline for you, although I would guess that Southwest would be the ticket if they fly near where you are. See you at the gathering. I plan to be arriving by the best method. :o) - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:10:32 EDT HAshraf@aol.com writes: >Gentlemen: > >I am planning to go to the Gathering in Perry OK this year. What is >the best >way to get there (commercial). > >Thanks > >Haris > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 04:14:08 -0700 From: "Benny Skyn" Subject: KR: search for steve@greatplains This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAC82.5988B7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Steve, My name is Benny Skyn and I have a type 4 crankshaft that desperatly = needs to be matched up w/ an appropriate hub. The engine came from a = porche 911 that was scheduled to be flattened soon. It cost $50. Two = hours later, I was offered $500. This engine needs to be in the air = asait,s ready. The cam is just a tad bit worn. Not bad but worn. The = engine had black black oil (5 quarts of it, but still black black) and = the driver seat had afro picks with fuzzy dice hangin over 'em but the = engine looks great thru it all.=20 Need a hub to get started.!!! =20 Benny Skyn - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAC82.5988B7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hello Steve,
My name is Benny Skyn and I have = a type 4=20 crankshaft that desperatly needs to be matched up w/ an appropriate = hub. The=20 engine came from a porche 911 that was scheduled to be flattened = soon. It=20 cost $50. Two hours later, I was offered $500. This engine needs to = be in=20 the air asait,s ready. The cam is just a tad bit worn. Not bad but = worn. The=20 engine had black black oil (5 quarts of it, but still black black) = and the=20 driver seat had  afro picks with fuzzy dice hangin over 'em but = the=20 engine looks great thru it all.
Need a hub to get = started.!!!
 
Benny=20 Skyn
- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAC82.5988B7A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:30:54 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Back at it. Back from the beach................had a big time and MM.........I had "fun". Went deep sea fishing and had an interesting thought. 60 miles off shore and I noticed several screws and bolts had partially backed out on the boat. Anything permanent was welded, anything not was coming out. If vibration can back it out it will. Now to the posts..........Mark, sorry about the cast slam on the VW. I posted that at 6:00 am on vacation morning then left town, maybe I was ducking out huh? The only thing about this engine that I am not a fan of is running a prop off the back end and using only that small pulley bearing to accept all the torque loading from the prop. I think you are going to be hard pressed to find bigger VW fans than Mark & I on this net.......go Vwub. RC servos, gyros, wing levelers.....Geez guys, well maybe next time I'm too far along, and the old favorite "it's not in the plans". Sorry for forgetting who posted it, but even if you have all the RR supplements, you still end up doing a lot of things, stand back and go "that looks it'll work" :-)). Glassing in pane...........use the Mark Langford idea, unplug the phone, lock the door and get a saw......then new foam and glass combination is cheap. You are going to be doing enough sanding anyway, you don't need more:-). Ross, way too go, sorry to hear about the compu-fire problem though. Two weeks to go for Columbia, month plus for Perry........WOO HOO. Mark (permanent grin) Langford, have a big time, I'm doing the London to Paris Airtour today ( that's London, KY to Paris, KY). Should be about 60 planes, five stops....poker run, food at each stop and just general fun. Dana Overall RIchmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 98 09:25:53 PDT From: "Tim Anderson" Subject: Re: KR: RE: RE: Wieght and balance spreadsheet? I down loaded a lotus spreadsheet that was used for the Dragonfly and con= verted for use in a kr. It is simple, yet does the job. I suggest that = we use the firewall or the main spar as the datum so that a quick check = of W&B can be made BEFORE the engine mounts are installed. Just a thought! TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Tim Anderson Stockton, CA tanderso@inreach.com - ---------- > Thomas Gatliff wrote: > > > If you tell me what you want, I will write software for the KR Weight= and > > Balance info. > > I don't think I can beat that deal. I'll let Steve (Eberhart) elaborat= e but > I think what he's after is a fairly simple affair using some known poin= t > (front face of prop hub) as the datum to the moment arm X a weight yiel= ding > a moment, which are all totaled below. Just fields like "instruments", > "engine", "wings", "wheels",... I may be totally wrong. He'll comment= ... > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:34:07 -0600 From: "Jeb" Subject: KR: Re: Tri gear. I are building a tri-gear, like Jeff says the Deihl mains and nose gear are good stuff, I recall the instructions which came with the mains say mount the bracket (cast aluminum) as close to fuselage skin as possible. So that's what I did. You can see some photos of Dan's gear and how I attached it at web page below. John Bryhan jeb@thuntek.net //http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Los Alamos, NM - ---------- > From: Genseric@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Tri gear. > Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 5:02 PM > > I'm planning on building my KR-2S with the tri-gear, and would like to know > more about it. The plans don't really detail much on them so can any one tell > me where I can find more info on it. Where the mains atatch? Any thing that > might be help full. > > I can finally start. I just finished my work bench last night!! > > Thanks > > Ben Raby > Minnesota ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:56 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse alert!) Jody Wallace wrote: > 1) Does a stock KR-2 tend to oscillate or phugoid about the > pitch axis > in normal level flight? (trimmed, no elevator input) > My impression of the typical KR is that if you let go of the stick, you're gonna die! > 2) Do you have to move the stick much to change attitude or > do you just > think about it and it moves? > Mental telepathy works on KRs. > 3) Is a stock KR-2 just as sensitive about the yaw axis as the pitch > axis and if no then why? I've heard KR guys say that they have plenty of rudder. Roll response doesn't come anywhere close to the pitch sensitivity though. Stick with us, and we'll fix this pitch thing eventually. I'd start by lengthening the fuselage some more. You guys snoozed too long, so I get to voice my opinion...once again. Fire away! Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:20:44 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: How to get to Perry HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > > Gentlemen: > > I am planning to go to the Gathering in Perry OK this year. What is the best > way to get there (commercial). > > Thanks > > Haris Haris I flew on American Airlines last year, from SNA it was about $350. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:00:51 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Attention Orlando, FL Builders! For all you builders who live in or visit Orlando, FL metro area, there is an excellent little Aircraft Fasteners store on Rock Springs Road, just a mile north of Apopka. They carry every AN fastener, including line fittings and mandrels. It's counter service only though, so you have to know what you want, but for fasteners this is like having AS&S or Wicks close by. They also have a carbon fiber layup and glass layup $ervice where they'll make any part you want. (Just figure what you think it will cost and multiply by three.) I know where I'll be getting my misc hardware, it's only 10 miles from me. PS. If you are on another list, spread this word, including to the newsgroups. Please delete my e-mail address though for the newsgroups, I don't want the spambots to get my e-mail address! - -Tom Andersen Building a KR-2S in Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:34:51 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse galloping!) Mark, OK, THAT'S IT!!! Now I'm going to add even bigger strakes to my stabilizer! I don't think this topic will ever die on KRNet because every new KR builder hears about it from non-KR sources as a problem. When they see how other builders are making major modifications such as lengthening the fuse or stab, it makes them go hmmmmm.... - -Tom Mark Langford wrote: > Jody Wallace wrote: > > > 1) Does a stock KR-2 tend to oscillate or phugoid about the > > pitch axis > > in normal level flight? (trimmed, no elevator input) > > > > My impression of the typical KR is that if you let go of the stick, you're > gonna die! > > > 2) Do you have to move the stick much to change attitude or > > do you just > > think about it and it moves? > > > > Mental telepathy works on KRs. > > > 3) Is a stock KR-2 just as sensitive about the yaw axis as the pitch > > axis and if no then why? > > I've heard KR guys say that they have plenty of rudder. Roll response > doesn't come anywhere close to the pitch sensitivity though. Stick with > us, and we'll fix this pitch thing eventually. I'd start by lengthening the > fuselage some more. > > You guys snoozed too long, so I get to voice my opinion...once again. Fire > away! > > Mark Langford > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:45:24 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Weight'n'bal spreadsht I think Jeff Scott had a weight and balance spreadsheet set up for his KR; why reinvent the wheel? Try him at jscott.pilot@juno.com Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:49:04 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Trigear info Paul Martin is imminently going to taxi-test his KR which he converted to trigear from taildragger. I'm sure he'd be willing to help with any info he has on the installation, and _all_ the details are fresh in his mind! Try him at wolfpacks@juno.com, or email me for his home phone. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:53:51 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Wieght and balance spreadsheet? Jeff, could use a spreedsheet like that. Rich McCall Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > One of my W&B spreadsheets is imbedded into Rick's test plan with the > proper caveats in it as well. It is easy enough to modify for your own > use. If there is alot of interest, I could develop a couple of spread > sheets targeted specifically to the stock KR-2 and Stock KR-2S in both > tailwheel and trigear configurations. That would only be about an hour > or so of work. > > Have fun with the Starduster Mark! > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > > On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:40:36 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > > >Didn't somebody post or volunteer a weight and balance spreadsheet > >(geared > >for KRs, maybe?) a while back? > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:31:22 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Re: KR gathering-Perry Hey, can I sign up for KR flying lessons now? Would like to get acquinted with the KR in the air before I have to fly my KR2SXL. Anyone willing to help please contact me. Reservations already made for Perry, OK. Rich "Still building" McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction City, KS 66441 EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-08 01:25:34 EDT, Bruce Toscano writes: > > > Just made my reservations today for Sept 18, 19 and 20th for Perry. > > Haven't seen a post on the krnet about the "schedule" for each day or > > when things begin, etc. Did I miss it? > > > > Could you send me this information when it becomes available? > > > > Thanks so much . . . been looking forward to doing this for over a year! > > I talked with Don Betchan this week, and the schedule is beginning to gell for > the Gathering. In general, Friday will be an informal arrival day, with a > barbeque and hangar talk in the evening. Saturday will be filled with > flying/rides, flying contests, flying/rides, seminars on fiberglass layup > techniques (Mark Langford), vacuum bagging techniques (Brian Bland), flight > testing (Rick Junkin), aero design modification considerations (Steve > Eberhart), VW engine build-up (Steve Bennet, this will be an all day event), > and potentially a discussion on Subaru engines. More flying/rides, > discussions with pilots/builders, flying/rides, pictures, and did I mention > flying/rides? There will be a fly-mart area, so bring all those parts that > you can't use. The recognition banquet is planned for Saturday night. Sunday > will be the departure day with no formal agenda. > > I'll be talking to Don again this weekend to work out the final details, and > then post a flyer on my web page. I'll be out of town all of next month, so > everything should be cast in concrete (or very nearly so) by the end of July. > > Don't forget to visit Brian Bland's page to preregister for the event to help > us get a head count for the Friday night BBQ and Saturday banquet. I'll let > y'all know as soon as I have more solid details. > > Accomodations are available at the Best Western Cherokee Strip, (580) > 336-2218. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone there again this year! > > Cheers! > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 13:36:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse walking!) At 03:34 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Mark, >OK, THAT'S IT!!! Now I'm going to add even bigger strakes to my stabilizer! I don't think this topic will ever die on KRNet because every new KR builder hears about it from non-KR sources as a problem. >>> Your right its a dead horse but,...What do you consider a non-KR source? . Mark and I both have flown KRs and neither of us care for the way it handles in the pitch department. I personally have flown a lot of aircraft and based on my experience I can say that the KR, in its stock form at gross weight, at the aft limit of the published CG is an accident waiting to happen for low time pilots. Hey the NTSB reports speak for themselves (stall spin, stall spin, stall spin). Not to mention 3 or 4 professional test pilots have flown various examples of the KR and report the same thing. ITS NOT JUST A RUMOR HERE ON THE KRNET! Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about the KR, but the plain and simple fact is it has a pitch stability issue that needs to be worked out. I know it must be a huge insult to build an airplane as beautiful as yours and have someone say negative things about it and I am sorry. I also promised myself I would never bring this issue up on the KR net again because it insults so many of our best resources (actual KR flyers) but I cant resist, I have a big mouth! :o) So again I am sorry! This issue is very dead but it will walk with us for the rest of our lives! Mike "not yet walking dead" Mims zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:48:41 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: DeFreze Retractable Tricycle Gear Conversion Ken, Can you send me copies of the DeFreze conversion documentation? THANKS> Rich McCall 1518 Holly Lane Junction city, KS 66441 Ken Combs wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with the DeFreze conversion? I bought a > "project" that included the drawings and instructions for the conversation. > It appears that the original builder (deceased) had started to modify the > stock retracts but had not touched the fuselage. Before I go any farther I > want to determine if there were problems with the conversation and if anyone > is still using it. I may just go with fixed tri-gear if I cannot learn any > more about this option. > > Ken Combs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:02:26 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: W&B Worksheets Weight and Balance heads, I uploaded a self extracting zip file to: http://a51.wetworks.org/w&b.exe that contain two copies of a weight and balance worksheet, one in Excel 4.0 and one in 123r1. I made these using the firewall as the datum. Note: the fuel is entered in pounds not gallons. Aux fuel is for stub tanks between the spars. Baggage is centered on hat rack. CG Limits are posted as aft of datum and are my personal limits not the plans. I think these could be used by anyone once they weigh their plane and put in the correct arms for the wheels (change tail wheel to nose wheel is needed). Good luck and always double check the math by hand! Computer programs are always wrong! Especially that John Roncz spreadsheet! Man what does he know? :o) Mike "who is John Roncz anyway" Mims zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:07:38 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: weight and balance spreadsheets You can also go to the bottom of the Weights page on the A51 site to download a copy. http://a51.wetworks.org/Weights.html They are basic but they work. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:09:47 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Wieght and balance spreadsheet? Do you want Taildragger or Trigear, -2 or -2S? I have all the numbers to put any of them together. Maybe I'll find a volunteer to stick one of each on their web site. Maybe the KRNet web site....Ross? Regards, Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:53:51 -0500 rmccall writes: >Jeff, > > could use a spreedsheet like that. > >Rich McCall > >Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > >> One of my W&B spreadsheets is imbedded into Rick's test plan with >the >> proper caveats in it as well. It is easy enough to modify for your >own >> use. If there is alot of interest, I could develop a couple of >spread >> sheets targeted specifically to the stock KR-2 and Stock KR-2S in >both >> tailwheel and trigear configurations. That would only be about an >hour >> or so of work. >> >> Have fun with the Starduster Mark! >> ------- >> Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >> jscott.pilot@juno.com >> See N1213W construction and first flight at >> http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: >> //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm >> >> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:40:36 -0500 "Mark Langford" > >> writes: >> > >> >Didn't somebody post or volunteer a weight and balance spreadsheet >> >(geared >> >for KRs, maybe?) a while back? >> >> >_____________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:58:21 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: Re: More pitchy questions (dead horse alert!) On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:56 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: >Jody Wallace wrote: > >> 1) Does a stock KR-2 tend to oscillate or phugoid about the >> pitch axis >> in normal level flight? (trimmed, no elevator input) >> > >My impression of the typical KR is that if you let go of the stick, >you're >gonna die! Wrong-o. Mine flies just fine when you let go of the stick. It's when ham fisted pilots grab hold of it that the fun begins. I let kids fly it on Young Eagles rides and they do just fine. > >> 2) Do you have to move the stick much to change attitude or >> do you just >> think about it and it moves? >> > >Mental telepathy works on KRs. > >> 3) Is a stock KR-2 just as sensitive about the yaw axis as the pitch >> axis and if no then why? > >I've heard KR guys say that they have plenty of rudder. Roll response >doesn't come anywhere close to the pitch sensitivity though. In my ever so humble opinion, I think the KR lacks rudder authority. It slips much like my old Stinson did. You know, the model with the huge vertical stab and miniature rudder. It doesn't slip as nicely as my Champ, Cub, and Starduster did. They had more rudder authority. That isn't to say that is doesn't slip very nicely. The rudder authority is adequate, it just lacks the authority of many other planes I have flown. >Stick with >us, and we'll fix this pitch thing eventually. I'd start by >lengthening the >fuselage some more. > >You guys snoozed too long, so I get to voice my opinion...once again. >Fire away! > >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > Fire 1. :o) - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:23:39 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse beat to life!) Well, I was trying to not insult the beautiful KR's that are flying. I actually heard about PS from other non-KR pilots before I got connected to other builders here on KRNet. I was not discounting your experience-born modifications. I like them and am copying them! - -Tom Micheal Mims wrote: > At 03:34 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Mark, > >OK, THAT'S IT!!! Now I'm going to add even bigger strakes to my > stabilizer! I don't think this topic will ever die on KRNet because every > new KR builder hears about it from non-KR sources as a problem. >>> > > Your right its a dead horse but,...What do you consider a non-KR source? . > Mark and I both have flown KRs and neither of us care for the way it handles > in the pitch department. I personally have flown a lot of aircraft and > based on my experience I can say that the KR, in its stock form at gross > weight, at the aft limit of the published CG is an accident waiting to > happen for low time pilots. Hey the NTSB reports speak for themselves > (stall spin, stall spin, stall spin). Not to mention 3 or 4 professional > test pilots have flown various examples of the KR and report the same thing. > ITS NOT JUST A RUMOR HERE ON THE KRNET! > > Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about the KR, but the plain and > simple fact is it has a pitch stability issue that needs to be worked out. > I know it must be a huge insult to build an airplane as beautiful as yours > and have someone say negative things about it and I am sorry. I also > promised myself I would never bring this issue up on the KR net again > because it insults so many of our best resources (actual KR flyers) but I > cant resist, I have a big mouth! :o) So again I am sorry! This issue is > very dead but it will walk with us for the rest of our lives! > > Mike "not yet walking dead" Mims > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:29:58 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Re: More pitchy questions (dead horse alert!) Jeff Scott wrote: > Wrong-o. Mine flies just fine when you let go of the stick. You know, it occurs to me (finally) that until I have one that I can crawl into and fly around all the time, I should leave such questions to the guys who DO! I'll try harder in the future. Keep in mind though Jeff that yours has an S tail on it, and a heavy engine in the front as well. What I said about "you're gonna die if you let go of the stick" was from a conversation that I had recently with Jim Hill and Troy Petteway, and that was their opinion, but theirs are stock KR2s which (I know I said I wasn't going to say it) have a tiny static margin. Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:34:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse beat to life!) At 05:23 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote: >Well, I was trying to not insult the beautiful KR's that are flying. I >actually heard about PS from other non-KR pilots before I got connected to other builders here on KRNet. I was not discounting your experience-born modifications. I like them and am copying them! >-Tom Oops! Wrong Tom! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:43:48 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Re: More pitchy questions (dead horse alert!) At 04:29 PM 7/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Jeff Scott wrote: > >> Wrong-o. Mine flies just fine when you let go of the stick. > >You know, it occurs to me (finally) that until I have one that I can crawl >into and fly around all the time, I should leave such questions to the guys who DO! I'll try harder in the future.>> Ditto! Besides I am getting tired of mixing up peoples names! :o) Mike "crawling back into my hanger now" Mims zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:39:41 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: motor heads While I was picking up some plywood for my firewall at AS&S the other day I decided to get my copy of Firewall Forward. GREAT book! All my electrical and engine questions have been answered! He gives 6 examples of electrical systems along with recommended wire gauges. Talks about updraft cooling, fuel systems, hooking up engine instruments, almost everything you wanted to know! How many out there are planning Gascolectors? I have read they are required but the recent article on Ellisons web site says to avoid using them if possible. The reasons to avoid them made sense to me. Did anyone else read about it? After my last weight in I have decided to go without a starter on my unit. I will still run a small alternator and motorcycle battery to run the radio, transponder and electric fuel transfer pump. But that will be about all, no lights, strobes, or what have you. To add a starter to my project would invite another 45 to 50 pounds (battery 25lbs, starter 10lbs, alternator 8lbs, flywheel 3 lbs hub extension 5 lbs and wiring and misc 2lbs.). Not to mention I would go nuts with lights, CD players, landing and taxi lights etc. if I had electric start capability. Heck if I can find a nice wobble pump to transfer the fuel from the aux tanks I may dump the whole electrical system. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:55:23 +0200 From: aabbcc01@infonie.fr Subject: Re: KR: RE: More pitchy questions (dead horse walking!) mike,mark and other. i followed the topic about the pitch sensibility of kr2 and i admit that i 'm scared after what i read (if ever i understand well). because i'm not a very experienced pilot and i don't like to fly with cold shivers down my back always or to think what happend if ever i do this or i do that (to think little it's normal but always become torture and i guess that it's not the goal for an homebuilder of airplane). So if i understand the kr2 pain in lack of pitch stabilty and i guess this come from the short length of fuselage and /or the too small aera and span of horizontal stabilizer ,right ? But if we compare kr2 and kr2s they increase already the HS aera So what do you suggest for to solve this pitch problem? before i'm planning to make a removable HS and keep it at the size given in the plans so i will build and try other span size if ever i'm not dead in my first flight. Thanks Eric Dewet France > based on my experience I can say that the KR, in its stock form at gross > weight, at the aft limit of the published CG is an accident waiting to > happen for low time pilots. Hey the NTSB reports speak for themselves > (stall spin, stall spin, stall spin). Not to mention 3 or 4 professional > test pilots have flown various examples of the KR and report the same thing. > ITS NOT JUST A RUMOR HERE ON THE KRNET! > > Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about the KR, but the plain and > simple fact is it has a pitch stability issue that needs to be worked out. ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #117 *****************************