From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 8:41 AM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #120 krnet-l-digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 120 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:25:09 EDT From: Ezav8r@aol.com Subject: KR: Pitch, Weight, and Marketing In a message dated 98-07-12 23:11:24 EDT, you write: << This is interesting to me because the first thing I said to myself after weighing my KR was "how the heck does someone get this thing to balance with a 180 pound VW up front?" Of course my KR is a porker but after leveling it and weighing it I don't know how the VW powered KRs are staying forward of the aft limit with two people aboard! I used an engine weight of 260 pounds (firewall forward) and with full fuel in the header tank, 360 pounds of meat in the seats I am sitting right on the aft limit! Someone please explain to me how this is done with 180 pound VW? >> I read an article once that touched this subject. To paraphrase some content, it stated that building a KR-2 light (per design!) and using two Ken sized occupants, the KR-2 will perform as advertised according to the 'original/early' performance figures (something like 140 cruise speed @ 800 gross). I can't specifically recall the numbers, but I think it safe to say that over time the original marketing stats have 'evolved.' The KR-2 has gone from being a simple sport plane for two 'lightish' people to a multi-role plane for the masses. I'd ASSUME that any aircraft built over the design weight flying over the designed gross will not handle as designed (i.e. heavy aircraft and normal pilots may be more sensitive?). Is there anyone here who has built a 1600cc KR-2 at the designed weight? Does anyone recall the 'early' marketing stats from the 70's for the KR-2? Tyson Long-Ez ....two months from flying :) KR-1 next? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:12:38 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Tailwheel Mike, what was the part number for your tailwheel 691 or 692? Also did you end up picking up your flat spring from AS&S, if so what is the part number? I just don't like the as% end sitting so low with the Mickey Mouse setup from..............huh, the plans, yeh that's it ...........the plans:-)). I'll let you know about the plugs on the Rotax, he's had some high water pressure readings so that may be it. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:05:17 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: East coast gathering In a message dated 98-07-13 09:04:15 EDT, you write: << Hi East Coast Netters.. I have a question about Colombia airport re the gathering. Is there a nearby place to park a camper overnight? >> Ron, I don't have the telephone number but the name of the FBO is/was Raider Aviation. You could do the information thing and give them a call and post whether we would be able to camp. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:12:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Mike, what was the part number for your tailwheel 691 or 692? Also did you end up picking up your flat spring from AS&S, if so what is the part number? I just don't like the as% end sitting so low with the Mickey Mouse setup from..............huh, the plans, yeh that's it ...........the plans:-)). > M I C K E Y mouse! :o) Yes the spring is fomr AS&S and the tailwheel part number I will get when I get home. I like mine a lot. I was pushing the sp around with the kids in it the other day and the tail spring was working great! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:43:45 -0400 From: rdewees@juno.com Subject: KR: Re: East coast gathering Hi Dana... You had a good idea. I looked in the AOPA directory and found Raider 's number and gave them a call. A nice fellow named Scott answered and said camping was just fine. He seemed a bit bewildered that 20 or so of us might be descending on the place but said it would be fine. Thanks for the suggestion. The number is 613 379-4510 if you or others have more questions Ron On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:05:17 EDT KR2616TJ@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 98-07-13 09:04:15 EDT, you write: > ><< Hi East Coast Netters.. I have a question about Colombia airport >re the > gathering. Is there a nearby place to park a camper overnight? >> > >Ron, I don't have the telephone number but the name of the FBO is/was >Raider >Aviation. You could do the information thing and give them a call and >post >whether we would be able to camp. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:18:50 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: motor heads/kubota alternator Don't know the output. It is recommended that you use a larger pulley on any alternator you put on an auto engine to be used on an aircraft to reduce the RPMs of the alternator some. - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:28:47 -0400 Tom Andersen writes: >Jeff, >Do you know the output rating of the Kubota tractor alternator? >I wonder if it is as durable at higher engine speeds like on a Soob. >-Tom > >Jeffrey E Scott wrote: The Kubota alternator might be a good > >> candidate for a pulley driven application on Mikes Lyc as it is >smaller and >> lighter than the Suzuki alternator. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:15:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel At 04:12 PM 7/13/98 EDT, you wrote: >Mike, what was the part number for your tailwheel 691 or 692? Also did you end up picking up your flat spring from AS&S, if so what is the part number?>>> Dana and future tailwheeler brothers, If you are using the Dan Diehl main gear I think you would be doing yourself a huge favor by using this wheel and spring. AS&S parts numbers are L-691 ($223) for the tailwheel and 06-14500 for the spring ($20.80). It may just give you a little more vis over the nose also! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:16:24 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel At 04:12 PM 7/13/98 EDT, you wrote: >Mike, what was the part number for your tailwheel 691 or 692? Also did you end up picking up your flat spring from AS&S>>> Almost forgot, if you havent seen it go to: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/updatemay.html and scroll to the bottom. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:44:40 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Ooooo... Very nice. A longer tailwheel means a lower angle of attack can be used in a 3-point landing, and also the tailwheel sets down sooner for wheel landings. Due to it's length it's an anti-speed looking aerodynamic resistor device, although much less so than the nosedragger device. Is the stock tailwheel unstable, too weak, or just hard to turn under the weight of a fully loaded KR? It doesn't seem to have the right geometry for stability. It seems that the bolt's axis is not vertical at rest? - -Tom "Just bought another RR tailwheel spring" Andersen Micheal Mims wrote: > At 04:12 PM 7/13/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Mike, what was the part number for your tailwheel 691 or 692? Also did you > end up picking up your flat spring from AS&S>>> > > Almost forgot, if you havent seen it go to: > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/updatemay.html > > and scroll to the bottom. > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:49:04 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: motor heads/kubota alternator I've heard tell of a set of all aluminum double-v pulleys for running two belts for the alternator and water pump. The crank pulley is smaller to run both accessories slower. I guess two belts doubles the friction to make up for the smaller pulley. I'll check with the Soob gurus. - -Tom Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > Don't know the output. It is recommended that you use a larger pulley on > any alternator you put on an auto engine to be used on an aircraft to > reduce the RPMs of the alternator some. > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > > On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:28:47 -0400 Tom Andersen > writes: > >Jeff, > >Do you know the output rating of the Kubota tractor alternator? > >I wonder if it is as durable at higher engine speeds like on a Soob. > >-Tom > > > >Jeffrey E Scott wrote: The Kubota alternator might be a good > > > >> candidate for a pulley driven application on Mikes Lyc as it is > >smaller and > >> lighter than the Suzuki alternator. > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:55:32 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel At 09:44 PM 7/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >Ooooo... Very nice. A longer tailwheel means a lower angle of attack can be used in a 3-point landing, >>> As much as I love to three point a tail wheeler I bet most KRs are wheel landed. Maybe Jeff or others can comment on how theirs wheel land compared to three pointing. I just wanted a real tail wheel and spring to go along with my real landing gear and real engine. (ha ha ha) I plan to fair in the spring to try and minimize aero effects but I aint to worried about it. I don't think this plane will have any trouble cruising at 180 and that's good enough for me That is unless 200 feels nice! ;o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:08:22 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: search for steve@greatplains Benny. for starters we have a $4.00 catalog that depicts all of our products. you need a force one hub. 229.95. force one t4 main bearing 94.95 and seal kit 15.95. we charge 190.00 to machine your t4 crank and you send your case to rimco in ca to have it machined for the bearing for about 60.00. steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:18:45 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: motor heads/kubota alternator 14 amps. it will fit in front of the right hand front cylinder and drive off a pulley on prop hub. used on a number of V-max's., Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:16:07 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Sweating it. In a message dated 98-07-13 08:59:36 EDT, you write: << Sounds like you have a full size environmental chamber to post cure ! Maybe you should consider renting it out. >> At this time it is giving me fever and dehydtration. Mike (Mims) plane is in the next hangar and is surely getting cured. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:26:09 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: East coast gathering What dates are the gathering? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:48:58 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Sweating it. At 10:16 PM 7/13/98 EDT, you wrote: >At this time it is giving me fever and dehydtration. Mike (Mims) plane is in the next hangar and is surely getting cured. > >Haris Kinda interesting how the surface of the fiberglass is warmer than the air temp. I wonder why that is? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:20:38 -0400 From: photofix Subject: KR: future builder? Hello to the group, I'm new to the group and leaning real heavy toward building a kr2 or kr2s. I would love to hear some good and bad input from the group to help me decide on a design to build. As far as power plant has anyone used a type 4 motor and what was the out come. Thanks for any help I can get Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:54:57 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: future builder? In a message dated 98-07-14 00:16:57 EDT, you write: << Hello to the group, I'm new to the group and leaning real heavy toward building a kr2 or kr2s. I would love to hear some good and bad input from the group to help me decide on a design to build. As far as power plant has anyone used a type 4 motor and what was the out come. Thanks for any help I can get Vince >> Read your e-mail everyday and you will learn way more about KR2S than you would ever want to know . A lot of builders have web sites devoted to construction of their plane. Mark Langford site (http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr2s.html), is very detailed and informative. Book mark it. It is general consesus of most of us that KR2S is the way to go. That is what I am building. You had asked for good and bad. I belive that a KR2S is the best plane you can build for the money. There is really nothing inherently bad about it. I just started building so I cannot say much bad things. I am sure other builders will provide their inputs. We are having a gathering in Perry OK, on 18-20 Sep. Plan to join us if you can. You may be able to get a ride and form a opinion about its flight qualities by yourself. Again, welcome. Haris Ashraf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:22:42 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael Taglieri) Subject: KR: Control Stick cable tension experiments >>The tension will not change if two things are >>true, that is, if the length of the elevator >>control horn is equal to the length of the >>attachment points on the stick, and if the >>control horn and the stick are parallel to each >>other. > >Most of us have found out the hard way about this >little quirk! If you are using the Rand >centerstick (as shown in the plans) and build your > elevator horn as shown in the plans you will get >this binding action when you move the stick back >and forth. The distance from pivot on the horn and >the stick are not the same and like Don said, it >will bind. I made a second elevator horn and >drilled the cable attach holes closer to pivot, >and the binding action is much less severe. I'm reluctant to disagree with so many builders when I'm just a wanna-be-builder, but this did not seem right to me, so I ran some tests tonite and it isn't right. Obviously, I have no control stick or elevator, so I built two wooden rods pivoting on blocks and connected by strings, with the blocks held in bench vises on opposite ends of my workbench so I could move them to adjust tension. One rod had multiple attachment points for the strings so I could try them at various distances from the pivot, and I could adjust the strings tight enough so they could be plucked like guitar strings, letting me notice even small changes in tension since the pitch of the note would change. The results: as long as the two attachment points on each rod are the same distance from the pivot as one another, the tension of the string does not change as you move the rods, whether or not that distance is the same as the distance on the other rod. Therefore, you can set up any ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the tension should not change. Likewise, it does not matter if the rods are not parallel to one another -- you can make one string much shorter than the other one and the tension still won't change when you move the rods. So why do so many KR's apparently have tension variations when you move the stick? I also tested this, and there are several causes. If the attachment points on a rod are not precisely the same distance from the pivot, the tension will vary, and it will go from highest tension on one side to lowest tension on the other side, with the central position being medium tension. I assume almost all builders drill the holes in the stick and in the elevator horn carefully, so you wouldn't expect to see this problem much. However, you also get a tension problem if the pivot point on a rod is NOT DIRECTLY IN-LINE WITH THE ATTACHMENT POINTS on that rod. If the attachment points are nearer to the other rod than the pivot is, the strings will be looser in the central position and get tighter as you move to each side. By contrast, if the attachment points are farther from the other rod than the pivot is, the strings will be tight in the central position and get looser as you move to each side. (Very little misalignment is needed to cause this problem -- I noticed it with just 1/4" of misalignment on rods with 3" pivot-to-attachment distance). The elevator horn design has all three holes in line, so it shouldn't cause a problem if you use cable-attach hardware that pivots the cables where the attachment holes are. However, the control stick design in the manual shows the eyebolts for the elevator slightly nearer to rear of the plane than the pivot, which would cause the cables to be looser at the middle position and tighten as you move the elevator to the top and bottom. Also, some builders may not pay attention to this distance since it's not specified, and may use different eye bolts, which might make the problem worse. Finally, some of the other control-stick designs in past Newsletters have had much more misalignment between the elevator-cable attachment points and the pivot than the one in the manual. I also noticed a curious thing about the aileron-cable attachments on the control stick design in the manual: the cables do not attach directly to the stick, but to holes on opposite ends of an aluminum plate. Can that plate itself pivot on the stick? If it does not, the aileron cables are effectively getting shorter as you move the stick away from the neutral position, and I'd expect possible binding there, also. Mike Taglieri - ------------------------------------------------ 'Mine goes up to 11' - ------------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:55:23 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: East coast gathering In a message dated 98-07-13 22:32:39 EDT, you write: << What dates are the gathering? >> Now this is just the east coast (some disagree :-)) gathering not the formal Perry Gathering in September but the date is July 25th at the Maury County Airport in Columbia, TN (MRC) which is about 35 south of Nashville. We have several people who are coming commercial (Southwest if you can get it from around you) and then either car pooling or renting a car in Nashville. A lot of die hards are arriving Friday and leaving out on Sunday. A lot are staying at "The Polk" (931) 388-4913 and if you want something else the Holiday Inn still had rooms a couple of weeks ago. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:46:26 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments Mike Taglieri wrote: > Obviously, I have no control stick or elevator... > The results: as long as the two attachment points on each rod are the > same distance from the pivot as one another, the tension of the string > does not change as you move the rods, whether or not that > distance is the > same as the distance on the other rod. Therefore, you can set up any > ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the > tension should > not change. Likewise, it does not matter if the rods are not > parallel to > one another -- you can make one string much shorter than the other one > and the tension still won't change when you move the rods. I really hate to sound uncharitable (that'd be a first!), but I don't think so. I could spend an hour building a parametric solid model CAD representation to demonstrate what goes on, but I'm a simple minded guy and like to think of simple examples (and you'd owe me a pitcher of beer at the next Gathering). So, I'll just pick one of your assertions: >Therefore, you can set up any > ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the > tension should > not change. Let's just take an extreme case for demonstration purposes. One of your levers has holes 6 feet apart and centered. The other one's holes are 1" apart and centered. How far is the long one going to move before the short one runs out of travel and binds? Will the cables get really tight too? I think so... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:17:27 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: KR-1 project for sale Hello, netters- I goofed and punched the 'delete' button too fast on the last digest- did I read that somebody here has a KR-1 rebuild project for sale for $1,000?? Or was that $10,000? Somebody in the Kansas City area... Thanks Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:11:56 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel In a message dated 98-07-13 21:46:38 EDT, you write: << Is the stock tailwheel unstable, too weak, or just hard to turn under the weight of a fully loaded KR? >> Tom, I don't know about the bolt having a parallel axis and all but, in the past, there were several of the original arrangements break. Most people then added a second piece of spring steel. I have been working with my plane's tail up in a level flight attitude for the last couple on months with the panel wiring, header tank and all, and when I lowered it down I thought "man, you could trip over the tail end of this thing at an airport if you didn't watch it". I have been looking at different tailspring configurations here lately and just now ordered the one from AS&S. I guess the plans arrangement would be fine with the old stock retract system but with the higher stance on the Deihl gear, it's got that homesick angel look, sitting on the ground :-)). Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:20:49 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: future builder? In a message dated 98-07-14 00:16:53 EDT, you write: << kr2s. I would love to hear some good and bad input from the group to help me decide on a design to build. As far as power plant has anyone used a type 4 motor and what was the out come. >> Vince, boy you asked for it :-)) I believe the general concensus for a new builder would be too go with the 2S, a little bigger airplane and it's a nice looking airplane also. Hang around a while and you might even make it wider, change the wing or make the horizontal stab larger (I just had too throw that one in :-)). As far as engines, you've got your choice from a 290, 235, 200, type 1, type 4 see June 98 edition of Sport Aviation for Tom Crawford's standard KR-2 with a type 4 that's getting 180+ at top end, Soob, Jabiru, type 4 turned around the "right" way. My own opinion, you knew it was coming, is that you are going to it difficult to build another airplane for the money out there that will give you the performance of the KR. It's going to be hard too beat it without going with big bucks. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:44:07 -0400 From: Eugene Gargasz Subject: KR: generators/starters This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------795956E3A68ACAF3A7CA82C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------795956E3A68ACAF3A7CA82C0 Content-Type: application/msword; name="kr 7 14.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="kr 7 14.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAAA AAAAEAAAAgAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAAAAAAD///////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Subject: Re: KR: future builder?/comparison to renting Yea! Yea! Yea! I'll share a little of a recent response I emailed out privately. This is a comparison of building and owning a KR to renting out an equivalent number of hours in a spam can. ******************************************** I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of factors involved which you can't really assign a cost because the benefits are available only through ownership. These could actually be termed luxuries compared to renting. Examples: No appointment necessary to fly. No return date stated. You know where the plane has been and you know it's condition 100%. Pride of ownership of a cool, sexy little plane. Bragging rights as a builder. Faster than most rentals, and higher usable ceiling. Much better on gas. The KR-2S type airplane cannot even be rented. The fighter-style responsiveness and nimble, light weight controls don't have a parallel in rentalworld. The closest cousins are aerobatic planes at over $120 an hour, at three times the weight. Where do you find a Pitts for rent or a Cap21? They're few and far between. All flying is not created equal, just like all driving is not created equal. Is driving a minivan the same as driving a sportscar? I consider the KR-2S to be like a Porche whereas the rentals are like the minivan. It may be a bit exaggerated because the climb of the KR-2S is not aerobatic, but it is definitely fighter-style and fast. I almost bought a Hi-Max kit with a Zenoah G-50. I had taken the plans home from 1996 Sun-n-fun and started planning my weekends. With the Hi-Max I could reach 7 states in a weekend. With the KR-2S at 180mph I could reach 25 states in the same flight time. That's a BIG difference. Next time you're on the highway at 75mph imagine accelerating and seeing your speedometer going all the way around again, then around another 30mph. Then you are going 180mph. Now you can go someplace fast enough to enjoy where you get. The KR-2S is not an end in itself until the construction is complete, then it's a means to an end, and that end is TRAVEL. I don't think you have set your sights high enough. If you set your sights high enough, an $11,000 airplane starts to look cheap compared to what you will achieve. I'll share some of my dream flights at the risk of critique, but this is what inspires me and every other KR-2 builder: Fly to New York from Florida in 6-7 hours, spending a total of $40 in gas. Visit my relatives for a day, then fly back for another $40. (I realize the weather restrictions, but I know it's possible.) Fly to Key West for a day and enjoy the sights. This is a 2.5 hour flight at 180mph. That translates into a one-day round trip. Some KR fliers have gone coast to coast. Try that in a low and slow and Ushuaia will document it as a miracle flight. In a KR it's not unusual. The intended engine for the KR is a turbocharged VW. It's not turbocharged to increase HP at sea level, it's turbocharged for high-altitude cross-country cruising where your true airspeed increases so long as your power is still good up there. The air is smooth up there as well. The 3.5 degrees incidence and 3 degrees washout is just right at 10,000 feet altitude, where AOA increases to make up for the thin air. If you want to go across the mountain ranges out west, you need turbo power to fly at 13,000 feet. I may sound like a dreamer, but all this is done regularly by KR drivers, who don't frequent the KRNet because they're too busy flying to listen to builder's drivel. Just ask Adrian Cartera. He does it all with an 1835 cc VW! A builder of a Long-EZ flew from Germany to Oshkosh at 180mph. Another flew from Brazil to Oshkosh, same speed. I think these flights are extreme, but they'll never get done in something low and slow, that's for sure. My point is this: Aim high enough in your goals and no matter what you spend to get there, it will seem cheap! PS. A KR only needs 1/2 or even 1/3 of a T-hangar. Many KR's and small homebuilts share a hangar. Use an auto conversion and enjoy low, low cost rebuilds. Note that your lifestyle will change when you complete a machine you can travel a bit in. - -Tom KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-14 00:16:53 EDT, you write: > > << kr2s. I would love to hear some good and bad input from the group to > help me decide on a design to build. As far as power plant has anyone > used a type 4 motor and what was the out come. >> > > Vince, boy you asked for it :-)) I believe the general concensus for a new > builder would be too go with the 2S, a little bigger airplane and it's a nice > looking airplane also. Hang around a while and you might even make it wider, > change the wing or make the horizontal stab larger (I just had too throw that > one in :-)). As far as engines, you've got your choice from a 290, 235, 200, > type 1, type 4 see June 98 edition of Sport Aviation for Tom Crawford's > standard KR-2 with a type 4 that's getting 180+ at top end, Soob, Jabiru, type > 4 turned around the "right" way. > > My own opinion, you knew it was coming, is that you are going to it difficult > to build another airplane for the money out there that will give you the > performance of the KR. It's going to be hard too beat it without going with > big bucks. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #120 *****************************