From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 5:17 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #121 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, July 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 121 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:24:02 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel >In a message dated 98-07-13 21:46:38 EDT, you write: > >Is the stock tailwheel unstable, too weak, or just hard to turn >under the weight of a fully loaded KR? >> If you make it to the East Coast Gathering you'll see a "Stock" KR-2 from Maine that has the original retracts, tail wheel and spring etc. Its been running since 85 with no problems. I was told the tailwheel has been replaced a couple of times just because the rubber was worn off. Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:58:54 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: Re: KR: KR-1 project for sale Oscar, I suppose what I said on my post meant that I would take $1,000 for my project. It is true, I am having problems with my medical and could loose it at any time. Under these circumstances, I find it best to get what I can and sell out. I have purchased my old ultralight back and plan to stick to ultralight flying. You can see my Weedhopper and one pic of the kr project at http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ E-mail me for more details. Project is located in South Georgia. Thanks, Darrin West mailto:dwest@rose.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:00:51 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: KR-1 project for sale At 01:58 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Oscar, I suppose what I said on my post meant that I would take >$1,000 for my project. It is true, I am having problems with my medical >and could loose it at any time. >>>> If you were on the left coast I would bite! I am thinking little P-51 with an inverted inline engine! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:52:22 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel In a message dated 98-07-14 12:25:31 EDT, you write: << f you make it to the East Coast Gathering you'll see a "Stock" KR-2 from Maine that has the original retracts, tail wheel and spring etc. Its been running since 85 with no problems. >> I'll bring my "plans" tailspring and wheel, if anyone wants it I'll give it away. With the Deihl fixed gear this arrangement just leaves the plane sitting in too much of a tail low attitude for me. Like I said earlier, with the original retracts the front of the plane sits lower so "the look" is just about right. If anyone is building a retract stock KR2 and you will be coming to the east coast or Perry Gatherings, let me know I've got the whole sha-bang from a parted out KR including the mechanical brakes. Mike, the problem with that Rotax turned out to be the coil, apparently with all that sewing machine vibration and high cowling temps it just started crapping out. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:48:02 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel Dana, How about the dual control stick? Do you have that? I purchased the single stick a while back, but I'm thinking it would be nice to be able to switch hands for radio tuning, and also be able to put the stick between the knees. - -Tom KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: I've got the whole sha-bang from a parted out KR including the mechanical brakes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:50:08 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: KR-1 project for sale Darrin, I'm having a problem downloading your site. All the pics load halfway each really slowly, then it hangs there. - -Tom Darrin West wrote: > Oscar, I suppose what I said on my post meant that I would take > $1,000 for my project. It is true, I am having problems with my medical > and could loose it at any time. Under these circumstances, I find it > best to get what I can and sell out. I have purchased my old ultralight > back and plan to stick to ultralight flying. You can see my Weedhopper > and one pic of the kr project at > http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ > E-mail me for more details. Project is located in South Georgia. > > Thanks, > Darrin West > mailto:dwest@rose.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:38:07 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments At 07:46 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >Mike Taglieri wrote: > >> Obviously, I have no control stick or elevator... > >> The results: as long as the two attachment points on each rod are the >> same distance from the pivot as one another, the tension of the string >> does not change as you move the rods, whether or not that >> distance is the >> same as the distance on the other rod. Therefore, you can set up any >> ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the >> tension should >> not change. Likewise, it does not matter if the rods are not >> parallel to >> one another -- you can make one string much shorter than the other one >> and the tension still won't change when you move the rods. > >I really hate to sound uncharitable (that'd be a first!), but I don't think >so. I could spend an hour building a parametric solid model CAD >representation to demonstrate what goes on, but I'm a simple minded guy and >like to think of simple examples (and you'd owe me a pitcher of beer at the >next Gathering). So, I'll just pick one of your assertions: > >>Therefore, you can set up any >> ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the >> tension should >> not change. > >Let's just take an extreme case for demonstration purposes. One of your >levers has holes 6 feet apart and centered. The other one's holes are 1" >apart and centered. How far is the long one going to move before the short >one runs out of travel and binds? Will the cables get really tight too? I >think so... > >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > Both ideas are worth looking in to. I looked at my stick and found that the pivot point is on the opposite side from the attach points. This is different from the drawing which shows the pivot point on the same side. Maybe the problem will go away when I correct my mistake .... and I will buy you both a pitcher of beer at the next Gathering. Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:54:16 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Stick-was tailwheel. In a message dated 98-07-14 16:49:27 EDT, you write: << Dana, How about the dual control stick? Do you have that? I purchased the single stick a while back, but I'm thinking it would be nice to be able to switch hands for radio tuning, and also be able to put the stick between the knees. -Tom >> Nope Tom, I've only got the one single one. Anyway, if I had the dual one I'd be using it and pawning the single one off :-)). Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:18:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments(BEER)! At 04:38 PM 7/14/98, you wrote: >Both ideas are worth looking in to. I looked at my stick and found that >the pivot point is on the opposite side from the attach points. This is >different from the drawing which shows the pivot point on the same side. Maybe the problem will go away when I correct my mistake .... and I will buy you both a pitcher of beer at the next Gathering. > > > Beer,..what? Did someone mention my name? What? Did I miss something? Yep all your ducks must be in a row and equidistant from the center duck of someone will get uptight! Dot the plans still show the stick measurements to be different than the elevator horn? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:35:38 -0500 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick At 09:52 PM 7/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >Austin Clark wrote: >> >> I just completed the elevator and rudder control cables today and although >> I don't seem to have the problem you mention, I noticed the elevator cable >> varies in tension as I move it through the normal range. The cables have >> less tension at neutral and tighten as I go up or down with the elevator. I >> am thinking it is just a matter of adjustment?? > >The tension will not change if two things are true, that is, if the >length of the elevator control horn is equal to the length of the >attachment points on the stick, and if the control horn and the stick >are parallel to each other. If either is not true, then the tension >will probably be different through the range of motion. Other >arrangements will give even tension, but these two are the simplest. > >-- >Don Reid > Don, You are right in what you said but what I was talking about was using a contol stick system that MAY pull on the aileron cables everytime the elevator was moved from neutral. Bobby Muse(N122B) mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:34:37 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments(BEER)! At 06:18 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote: Do the plans still show the stick measurements to be different than the elevator horn. > My plans show on page 61 the stick as having 2.5 inches from pivot to cable attach bolt. On page 41 the elevator/rudder control horn has the holes listed as 3 inches from pivot. This setup is exactly what I had and it would bind at maximum travel. One cable would sag and the other would be as tight as a ...........? So I built a new elevator control horn (from steel) and drilled the attach holes 2.5 inches from pivot. It worked great! No binding and very smooth operation. Plus this should add a little more control pressure to the stick. We shall see I guess. Why did I build my horn from steel? Well since I am using a spring trim system I would totally lose elevator control if the horn broke. This horn will not break! And yes there was a rumor that a couple of these things had broken in the past but it was unknown if they broke in flight or upon impact with the ground. I also used a 1/4 bolt for the pivot bolt on the center section because of the steel horn riding on the bolt. A nice "oil lite" bearing (screw um) would have been a more elegant solution. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:44:16 -0400 From: "Ron Rheude" Subject: Re: KR: If the horse dies, drag it across the finish line! Subject: Re: KR: Pitchy questions answered -- here's the bottom line >Eric, Rick is absolutely correct. If I were just starting to build my KR, >I would keep a copy of what Rick said here and read it every time someone >told you that the KR was too pitch sensitive. > >When I first flew my KR, I had 68 total PIC hours spread over 20 years. I >was able to fly with my Dad in his KR a couple of times to help build >confidence... I've been following the pitch sensitivity thread for a while too. I'm a new builder and I really appreciate the various inputs. I'm finishing a standard KR2 tri-gear project that has a 14" stretch to the tail. I'm still considering the benefit of strakes since my standard sized horiz. stab is glued in place. I think the combination will provide added pitch stability without a great drag penalty. Thoughts? Met your dad at Sun-n-Fun KR2 dinner. Great to have that advantage. I've a few hundred hours in my own "spam can" but doubt I'll ever get dual time unless I can loose some of my 200 lbs. I may have to try to find one of those Lancairs to get the general pitch sensation. Keep the tech data coming! Ron Rheude srheude@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:01:01 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Tailwheel I usually wheel it on as it allows me a tad bit better visibility, but it does either one equally well. For the first 10 hours, I only did 3 point landings while learning the plane. I am also using the same tailwheel assembly and spring as Mike except that I opted for the larger (6") tire. I have been very pleased with it's handling and lack of any need for maintenance in the first year/110 hours. Jeff - ------- Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:55:32 -0700 Micheal Mims writes: >At 09:44 PM 7/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Ooooo... Very nice. A longer tailwheel means a lower angle of >attack can >be used in a 3-point landing, >>> > >As much as I love to three point a tail wheeler I bet most KRs are wheel >landed. Maybe Jeff or others can comment on how theirs wheel land compared >to three pointing. > >I just wanted a real tail wheel and spring to go along with my real landing >gear and real engine. (ha ha ha) I plan to fair in the spring to try and >minimize aero effects but I aint to worried about it. I don't think this >plane will have any trouble cruising at 180 and that's good enough for me >That is unless 200 feels nice! ;o) >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:46:25 -0400 From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR: Stick-was tailwheel. KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-14 16:49:27 EDT, you write: > > << Dana, > How about the dual control stick? Do you have that? > I purchased the single stick a while back, but I'm thinking it would > be nice to be able to switch hands for radio tuning, and also be > able to put the stick between the knees. > -Tom >> > > Nope Tom, I've only got the one single one. Anyway, if I had the > dual one I'd be using it and pawning the single one off :-)). One of the Bingelis books has a picture of a dual stick installation in a KR2 and there's one in the old newsletters too. Patrick - -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patri63@ibm.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:42:31 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: East coast gathering thanks for the info ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:49:39 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: Wieght and balance spreadsheet? Jeff, I need the trigear version for my KR2SXL. Rich Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > Do you want Taildragger or Trigear, -2 or -2S? I have all the numbers > to put any of them together. Maybe I'll find a volunteer to stick one of > each on their web site. Maybe the KRNet web site....Ross? > > Regards, > > Jeff > ------- > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > jscott.pilot@juno.com > See N1213W construction and first flight at > http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > > On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:53:51 -0500 rmccall > writes: > >Jeff, > > > > could use a spreedsheet like that. > > > >Rich McCall > > > >Jeffrey E Scott wrote: > > > >> One of my W&B spreadsheets is imbedded into Rick's test plan with > >the > >> proper caveats in it as well. It is easy enough to modify for your > >own > >> use. If there is alot of interest, I could develop a couple of > >spread > >> sheets targeted specifically to the stock KR-2 and Stock KR-2S in > >both > >> tailwheel and trigear configurations. That would only be about an > >hour > >> or so of work. > >> > >> Have fun with the Starduster Mark! > >> ------- > >> Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > >> jscott.pilot@juno.com > >> See N1213W construction and first flight at > >> http://home.hiwaay.net~langford/kjefs.html & http: > >> //www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > >> > >> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:40:36 -0500 "Mark Langford" > > > >> writes: > >> > > >> >Didn't somebody post or volunteer a weight and balance spreadsheet > >> >(geared > >> >for KRs, maybe?) a while back? > >> > >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:55:17 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments(BEER)! In a message dated 98-07-14 21:18:51 EDT, you write: << Beer,..what? Did someone mention my name? What? Did I miss something? Yep all your ducks must be in a row and equidistant from the center duck of someone will get uptight! Dot the plans still show the stick measurements to be different than the elevator horn? >> You guys are too congenial. I was bracing for a all out no holds barred ham fisted fight:-) Haris Se ya at the gathering. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:57:09 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments(BEER)! In a message dated 98-07-14 21:35:03 EDT, you write: << And yes there was a rumor that a couple of these things had broken in the past but it was unknown if they broke in flight or upon impact with the ground. I also used a 1/4 bolt for the pivot bolt on the center section because of the steel horn riding on the bolt. A nice "oil lite" bearing (screw um) would have been a more elegant solution. >> Do you know the approx date or other NTSB data on these rumors. I need to research these as you know my RR bought horns are kind of flaky. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:07:44 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: Gyros Randy, I did look at the ad of BTW gyro in model aviation and have sent a SASE envelope to them today. Any how after looking at the picture it looks like that its a unitwith two rate gyro. Both outputs have adjustable gains. Other than that there is not much I could tell. Usually these things are mounted between the in series with servo signal from the receiver. They add inertial angular rate of the airframe to it and send the final signal to the servo. Let me know if you have any questions. Haris Ashraf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:16:53 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments(BEER)! At 11:57 PM 7/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >Do you know the approx date or other NTSB data on these rumors. I need to >research these as you know my RR bought horns are kind of flaky. > >Haris > Nope, still rumor as far as I know. Anyone else got any facts? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 98 04:48:37 GMT From: mathewrz@iafrica.com (Rob Matthews) Subject: KR: Video of gathering Hi All KRnetters I hope that video Bob will be at the gathering doing a fantastic job of videoing as his last video that he did. If he is going to be there please could he do more on the talks given by everyone (demonstrations).We need his excellent work at the gatherings as this helps us that live too far to attend such gatherings. Regards - -- Rob Matthews Have a nice day South Africa email mathewrz@iafrica.com KR 2 ZS-VCM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:59:41 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael Taglieri) Subject: KR: Re: Control Stick cable tension experiments >> The results: as long as the two attachment points on each rod are >the >> same distance from the pivot as one another, the tension of the >string >> does not change as you move the rods, whether or not that >> distance is the >> same as the distance on the other rod. Therefore, you can set up >any >> ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the >> tension should >> not change. Likewise, it does not matter if the rods are not >> parallel to >> one another -- you can make one string much shorter than the other >one >> and the tension still won't change when you move the rods. > >I really hate to sound uncharitable (that'd be a first!), but I don't >think >so. I could spend an hour building a parametric solid model CAD >representation to demonstrate what goes on, but I'm a simple minded >guy and >like to think of simple examples (and you'd owe me a pitcher of beer >at the >next Gathering). So, I'll just pick one of your assertions: > >>Therefore, you can set up any >> ratio you want between the stick and the elevator and the >> tension should >> not change. > >Let's just take an extreme case for demonstration purposes. One of >your >levers has holes 6 feet apart and centered. The other one's holes are >1" >apart and centered. How far is the long one going to move before the >short >one runs out of travel and binds? Will the cables get really tight >too? I >think so... Sorry, but this is not a valid example. If one rod has run entirely out of travel, you've already reached the end of the useful range of the system you set up, and you don't have the sort of "binding" that people have been talking about in this thread. The rod that's reached the end of its travel wouldn't move any further even if you were using rubber bungee cords for cables, which couldn't bind. To use your example, if the cable-attach holes in a KR bellcrank were 1" apart and the holes in the control stick were 6 feet apart (with lots of drag above and below the cockpit), the elevator would reach the limits of its up and down travel with a fraction of a degree of stick movement. However, there would still be no cable binding OVER THE ELEVATOR'S ENTIRE RANGE, which is the only part of the stick's movement that we care about - -- once the elevator reached its stop, you couldn't move the stick further without breaking something and would have no desire to move the stick further in any kind of flight. Of course, when I said "you can set up any ratio you want between the stick and the elevator," I meant ratios that people might want on a plane, but even with your extreme example the theory works: you get no binding as long as the system has travel left. In any event, extreme theoretical examples are fun to think about but distract from the point of my original experiment, so let me summarize it again: If you have a binding problem, adjusting the ratios between the stick and bellcrank so they're the same may mask the problem a bit but will not solve it, because that has nothing to do with the real cause. Instead, if you have binding at both ends of travel when the center is right (or binding in the center when both ends are right), the problem is because the pivot point on the stick is not in-line with the attachment holes. If you have binding only on one side and not the other, it's caused by a stick (or bellcrank) with one attachment hole a different distance from the pivot than the other hole is. Mike Taglieri - ------------------------------------------------ 'Mine goes up to 11' - ------------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:14:10 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Control Stick cable tension experiments At 12:59 AM 7/15/98 EDT, you wrote: >Of course, when I said "you can set up any ratio you want between the >stick and the elevator," I meant ratios that people might want on a >plane, but even with your extreme example the theory works: you get no >binding as long as the system has travel left. > Not true, read about my experience in a earlier post. Been there done that and the distances must be relatively close or it will bind. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:17:02 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Control Stick cable tension experiments At 12:59 AM 7/15/98 EDT, you wrote: <<<<>>>> All the holes in my first setup were inline and it still bound up, so I have to say again, not true! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:55:41 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick In a message dated 98-07-14 21:37:04 EDT, you write: << Don, You are right in what you said but what I was talking about was using a contol stick system that MAY pull on the aileron cables everytime the elevator was moved from neutral. Bobby Muse(N122B) >> Bobby, in all this discussion on tension it is the one you mentioned that initially concerned me. After setting all your cable tensions correctly and neutralizing all your control surfaces, everytime you move the stick fore and aft out of the neutral position, you "pull" on both of the aileron cables at the same time. I've never heard of a problem here, we're not talking about a lot of pressure, but it does occur. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:58:24 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Video of gathering In a message dated 98-07-15 00:53:37 EDT, you write: << If he is going to be there please could he do more on the talks given by everyone (demonstrations).We need his excellent work at the gatherings as this helps us that live too far to attend such gatherings. Regards -- Rob Matthews >> Rob, I talked with Video Bob at Sun & Fun and he assured me he was still working on the forum video, haven't heard anything else though. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:43:06 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > << And yes there was a rumor that a couple of these things had > broken in the past but it was unknown if they broke in flight or upon impact > with the ground. > Do you know the approx date or other NTSB data on these rumors. I need to > research these as you know my RR bought horns are kind of flaky. About a year ago, I looked up all of the KR type accidents from the NTSB and passed them out to several people since I did not have a web site at the time. I can't find my copy right now, but there was one that described an accident in which a control horn broke, perhaps at the time of a normal touchdown. If I remember correctly, the A/C lost control while landing and abruptly pitched nose up, crashed, and burned. The bottom control horn bolt hole was found broken out of the horn. If I had to guess, I would say that it was either poor workmanship, too high a cable tension, or a combination. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:05:29 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > Bobby, in all this discussion on tension it is the one you mentioned that initially concerned me. After setting all your cable tensions correctly and neutralizing all your control surfaces, everytime you move the stick fore and aft out of the neutral position, you "pull" on both of the aileron cables at the same time. > Did you guys use fairleads through the fuselage side or something? I realized there needed to be a pretty fair amount of movement so I used a spade bit and drilled 1 inch holes for my aileron cables. When you move the stick back and forth they are allowed to move around unrestricted from where they attach to the stick all the way out to the pulley by the WAFs. Seems to work OK, also could you guys be setting your cables up too tight? - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Filling and sanding now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:07:58 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Video of gathering KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Rob, I talked with Video Bob at Sun & Fun and he assured me he was still working on the forum video, haven't heard anything else though. > How many forums are scheduled and what day will they be on? - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Tearing apart the engine now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:34:25 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: re:control cables Mike Mims, I notice you used a full "U" channel control arm on your elevator. I did the same using a bolt between the two sided to attach the control cable to. My question is since I dont seem to get as much up elevator travel as the bottom of the control arm hits the bottom of the upper longeron doublers, did you remove some longeron material or move the spars forward? Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:55:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: re:control cables Richard Parker wrote: > > Mike Mims, > I notice you used a full "U" channel control arm on your elevator. I > did the same using a bolt between the two sided to attach the control > cable to. My question is since I dont seem to get as much up elevator > travel as the bottom of the control arm hits the bottom of the upper > longeron doublers, did you remove some longeron material or move the > spars forward? That was the old one, the new horn is as per plans. Mainly because of the issue you mention, the cable bolts would hit the sides of the fuselage. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Tearing aport the engine now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:39:29 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: RE: Control Stick cable tension experiments In a message dated 98-07-15 08:43:07 EDT, Don Reid writes: > About a year ago, I looked up all of the KR type accidents from the NTSB > and passed them out to several people since I did not have a web site at > the time. I can't find my copy right now, but there was one that > described an accident in which a control horn broke, perhaps at the time > of a normal touchdown. Don's work is posted on my web site at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator toward the bottom of the page. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:44:04 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Video of gathering In a message dated 98-07-15 11:04:32 EDT, Mike Mims writes: > How many forums are scheduled and what day will they be on? There are 5 forums planned: wet layup techniques, vacuum bagging techniques, Poly Fibre finishing system, VW engine build up, and flight testing. They will all be on Saturday. Sorry, I'm falling a little behind in my posting of the flyer, I'll let everyone know when it's done. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:15:46 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: KR: Vertex Magnetos KRNetters, One option I think is overlooked for ignition on auto conversions is the Vertex magnetos. These units are made for racecar applications like circle track racing, and Vertex makes them for 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinder operations. They would probably fit on the VW's that are turned around with the distributor hole at the rear, and also on Subaru's. They even make one for turbo'd engines, with an external coil, which has a very nice finned heat sink on the coil. What's attractive is the drop-in, self-contained simplicity, and no reliance on external wiring or power supply such as alternator or battery. This is typically not available without going to an expensive Slick mag. The base is now a one-piece machined aluminum part, better than the old casting. Vertex states they can make one for any engine. A lot of VW's have used these for years because they were readily available to the VW dune buggy community. Anyone have any experience at all with these units? - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:28:56 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Control Stick In a message dated 98-07-15 11:02:15 EDT, you write: << Did you guys use fairleads through the fuselage side or something? I realized there needed to be a pretty fair amount of movement so I used a spade bit and drilled 1 inch holes for my aileron cables. When you move the stick back and forth they are allowed to move around unrestricted from where they attach to the stick all the way out to the pulley by the WAFs. Seems to work OK, also could you guys be setting your cables up too tight? >> Mike, the tension I noticed would only be of concern if your cable tension was too tight, it really is of no concern. If this is happening to someone's cables they need to ease off the tension some. Sound like what we need to do here sometimes, doesn't it :-)). I've done the same as you as far as the hole goes and installed a small turnbuckle at the mounting point of both aileron cables to the stick. I'm not worried about any increased tension, getting close to finishing the thing is tension enough...........I'm going to have to fly this damn thing :-)). Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:31:36 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: re:control cables > >That was the old one, the new horn is as per plans. Mainly because of >the issue you mention, the cable bolts would hit the sides of the >fuselage. did you fill the holes and redrill new ones? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:47:06 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: re:control cables Richard Parker wrote: > > did you fill the holes and redrill new ones? > > ___ Fill which holes? If you mean the ones in the elevator spar I drilled the new horn so it would mount up using the exisiting mounting holes. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Tearing aport the engine now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:17:07 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: 262TC/KRNet web page I just saw the photos of Tom's KR on the KRNet.org web page; guess Ross has been doing some updating. Go see them if you haven't yet. Now I know what the "-TC" tail numbers stand for... Totally Cool! Nice, clean bird. I guess there's a lot to be said for building "to plans" (although I'm assuming there are some tweaks here and there, no?) and Jeff's plane still holds an edge over the others in my eyes, just cuz the wheel's back where it's supposed to be. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #121 *****************************