From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 8:24 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #139 krnet-l-digest Thursday, August 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 139 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:17:36 -0400 From: Harold P Subject: KR: [Fwd: KR2 part number] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------AF3D1833700291E4E23FD169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saw this on the net and wonder if anyone can help this fellow! Harold Montreal - --------------AF3D1833700291E4E23FD169 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Path: news21.bellglobal.com!news1.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon01.swbell.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <35DADD81.62679A@swbell.net> From: "Dennis L. Newman" Reply-To: dlnewman@swbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt Subject: KR2 part number Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:13:21 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.21.128.244 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: typhoon01.swbell.net 903536575 208.21.128.244 (Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:22:55 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:22:55 CDT Organization: SBC Internet Services Xref: news1.bellglobal.com rec.aviation.homebuilt:92183 Does anyone out there know what the part number might be for a KR2 aileron hinge bolts. Asking for a friend. He is assembling a wing section and can't find the bolts. Thanks, Dennis. - --------------AF3D1833700291E4E23FD169-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:29:44 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Corvair engines/William Wynne er, 4 cylinders are worse than six? steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:31:50 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Corvair engines/William Wynne dont think the statement is 100% correct. steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:33:21 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Go for throttle up!!! should climb like a homesick angel. steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:39:12 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse 808 does this make a single place kr2? steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:19:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Corvair engines/William Wynne At 07:29 PM 8/19/98 +0000, you wrote: >er, 4 cylinders are worse than six? steve > I kinda got a kick out of that one too, seeing that the Corvair was the second biggest lemon (second to the Vega) that GM ever produced! :o) And yes I can back it up, my dad had three of them, all brand new and all three spent more time at the dealership than in our driveway! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:27:15 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse At 07:39 PM 8/19/98 +0000, you wrote: >808 does this make a single place kr2? steve > This one had me thinking too Steve. My airframe weighs about 385 pounds and is very close to being finished. It needs a engine and some instruments and that's about it. I am counting on being a little over 700 pounds empty and keep in mind I am using a engine that is 50 pounds heavier than a VW. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time believing EA8s are 230 pounds or less. Seems that every Subaru powered KR weighs over 800 pounds empty. I think Les Palmers was like 825 pounds. Something just doesn't compute! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:07:33 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse Be that as you may i know for a fact not a day dream that S.Makish ea81 is 225 with liquids ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:26:08 -0500 From: rmccall Subject: Re: KR: [Fwd: KR2 part number] Harold, Look at page 87 and 88 in the builder's manual. It calls for the aileron piano hinge to mount to both 1/4" spars using 8/32 pan head bolts with nut plates spaced 6" apart (paragraph 10.59). Hope that helps. Rich "Haven't Got To the Wings Yet" McCall Harold P wrote: > Saw this on the net and wonder if anyone can help this fellow! > > Harold > Montreal > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: KR2 part number > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:13:21 -0500 > From: "Dennis L. Newman" > Organization: SBC Internet Services > Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt > > Does anyone out there know what the part number might be for a KR2 > aileron hinge bolts. Asking for a friend. He is assembling a wing > section and can't find the bolts. > Thanks, > Dennis. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:19:25 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse I just flipped my baby right side up again and weighed what I had around. I wanted to do a preliminary weight and balance check and found that (bathroom scales and a lot of guessing mind you) that I'll come in around 550 lbs (plus another 50 lbs for guessing!) I mention it in this thread because I think I'm coming out a little tail heavy. That's what I wanted to know while doing my firewall stuff so I could make some assumptions about motor mount extensions and battery locations. I may still have trouble getting it to come out where I want it with my revmaster 2100D so maybe these bigger (heavier) engines will be what I need. Now if I could get one to burn 4 gals an hour or less... - -Peter- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:37:43 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse In a message dated 98-08-20 00:20:52 EDT, you write: << I may still have trouble getting it to come out where I want it with my revmaster 2100D so maybe these bigger (heavier) engines will be what I need. Now if I could get one to burn 4 gals an hour or less... >> Peter, keep in mind that this airplane was designed (somewhat :-)) around that engine. I'm using a 2180 with two inch spacers between the engine mount and the accessory case and the W & B is is where I want it. I even used the heavier AS&S tailwheel. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:43:36 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse In a message dated 98-08-19 22:53:33 EDT, you write: << 808 does this make a single place kr2? steve > This one had me thinking too Steve. Seems that every Subaru powered KR weighs over 800 pounds empty. I think Les Palmers was like 825 pounds. Something just doesn't compute! >> Add fuel to the fire and then duck after I push send. George Huber's KR-2S at Sun & Fun.................subaru powered 882 lbs. empty, course at the time it wasn't even a one place KR as it had not flown yet and was already up for sale. I guess he might see 180 mph.................in a dive :-)). Duck, incoming!!!!!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:21:48 EDT From: Afzoomer@aol.com Subject: KR: 2 stokes engines Has anyone used a 2 stoke on the KR planes? Power to weight is great and All I want is the Hp and speed. Are there hidden disadvantages other than the TBO issue and the fuel mixing? Craig Kr? wannabe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:37:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 Afzoomer@aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone used a 2 stoke on the KR planes? Power to weight is great and > All I want is the Hp and speed. Are there hidden disadvantages other than the > TBO issue and the fuel mixing? > At first glance, a 2-cycle would look like a good choice but too many Ultrelight pilots, in my EAA chapter, have tails about their latest engine out episode. Seems that they are not as tolerant of mis-use as comparable 4-cycle engines are. There are always trade-offs. LOwer weight for the same HP and cheaper to boot - hard to resist. Steve Eberhart ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author Once you have the Coroners report, why keep kicking the poor dead horse --Steve Eberhart, 1998 When once you have tasted flight you will always walk with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be. --Leonardo da Vinci Legal Disclamer: All information, included in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that they are anything more than ideas requiring additional qualified engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:13:45 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines In a message dated 98-08-20 07:37:54 EDT, you write: << At first glance, a 2-cycle would look like a good choice but too many Ultrelight pilots, in my EAA chapter, have tails about their latest engine out episode. Seems that they are not as tolerant of mis-use as comparable 4-cycle engines are. There are always trade-offs. LOwer weight for the same HP and cheaper to boot - hard to resist. Steve Eberhart >> Coming up from cover after my comment about soobs :-)) I always tell the new ultralight pilots to practice emergency landings because no matter how reliable 2 strokes are (and I've flown a bunch, no flames here) it's not a matter of if the engine quits, it's "when" the engine quits. The most reliable 2 stroke I have ever flown behind, or in front of, was a converted chaparrel (sp) snow mobile, water cooled engine. We had to get a tax number and an invoice made up before they would send us one. Starts easier than Rotax, cost was about $600.00 plus about $300.00 in machine work for a gear box and has yet to cough. The only drawback here is lack of horsepower for a KR (plus that sewing machine sound). See there soob guys, I even mentioned "water cooled", he, he, he......I'm outta here. Ducking back down!!!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:59:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: KR: Re: Wind Tunnel Project On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Bruce Pea wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I'm pretty new to KRNet and just received my KR2S plans last week. I'd like > to participate in the airfoil testing if you still need contributions. Also, > I live in Champaign/Urbana, IL so if I can do any footwork, etc. for you > here I'd be happy to assist as well. > > You guys have great ideas and are doing great work! > THe wind tunnel testing is complete and the airfoils look like good options for the KR-2S. Troy Petteway is currently re-winging his KR-2 to flight test the AS5046 16% airfoil. As is always the case, it is taking him longer than anticipated but he should have it in the air before the snow flies. Contributions are appreciated as we are starting on the next phase. Building a carbon fiber spar for the KR. THe spar will be tested to 150% of the design load and then be built into a complete wing panel. THe wing panel will then be load tested to destruction to verify and document the strength of the new wing. THe wing design will be a new departure for KR wings. It will be a single main spar design with the dihedral break at the center section rather than out at the end of the stub wings. THere will be no stub wing and WAF situation to deal with. The individual wing spars will overlap inside the cockpit and be joined with two removable pins. THe wing panel skins will be constructed using Mark Langfords method of constructing sandwich skins, i.e glass on both sides of the sandwich foam. He has developed a simple quick method of constructing these skins that doesn't require a mold to be constructed. I am currently re-fitting a radio control model to test out some ideas for slotted flaps and spoilers for another project but will be ready to start work on the new spar in about a month. THe new spar and wing project is scheduled to be my winter project with results available before Spring arrives. We are planning on taking the wing project all the way through design, testing of sample parts, and preparation of complete builder plans and instructions. The formal plans for the new wing option will not be released until Troy's plane, with the new airfoil, flies and the test wing has been tested to destruction. The wind tunnel results indicate that there should not be any problems though. Steve Eberhart P.O. Box 9227 Evansville, IN 47724 - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author Once you have the Coroners report, why keep kicking the poor dead horse --Steve Eberhart, 1998 When once you have tasted flight you will always walk with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be. --Leonardo da Vinci Legal Disclamer: All information, included in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that they are anything more than ideas requiring additional qualified engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:51:11 -0500 From: "Jon Finley" Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines >On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 Afzoomer@aol.com wrote: > >> >> Has anyone used a 2 stoke on the KR planes? Power to weight is great and >> All I want is the Hp and speed. Are there hidden disadvantages other than the >> TBO issue and the fuel mixing? I flew a Rotax 503 in front of my Quickie for several years. It was far from ideal. I think current two-stroke technology is such that they are much more reliable that in the past. They now have dual CDI ignition, oil injection, etc... The most significant problem after reliability is that they have such a terribly narrow power band and turn high rpm. It is very tough to get one to fly fast AND have descent low speed performance. I spent lots of time tuning my prop to the point that I had good climb and good top speed. Then you have the high cruise rpm issue - it really sucks to go cross-country at 6000 rpm. The constant maintenance - plugs every 25 hrs, decarbon cylinders every 50 hrs, etc... I could tell you my horror stories - but that is better left to another day. Some guys bad mouth the VW. Gotta tell ya, I am many times more satisfied with my 1835 VW than I ever was with the 503. Jon Finley jdf@gksys.com N54JF - Quickie - 1835cc VW N90MG - Q2 - EA-81 Subaru-Turbo/DD Bloomington, Minnesota ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:29:52 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-08-19 22:53:33 EDT, you write: > > << 808 does this make a single place kr2? steve > > > This one had me thinking too Steve. Seems that every Subaru powered KR > weighs over 800 pounds empty. I > think Les Palmers was like 825 pounds. Something just doesn't compute! >> > > Add fuel to the fire and then duck after I push send. George Huber's KR-2S at > Sun & Fun.................subaru powered 882 lbs. empty, course at the time it > wasn't even a one place KR as it had not flown yet and was already up for > sale. > > I guess he might see 180 mph.................in a dive :-)). > > Duck, incoming!!!!!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ Dana, We all thought it, you just said it out loud. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:28:20 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: THOMASVILLE FLY-IN Darrin West wrote: > > I have created a page for the Thomasville Fly-In in October for anyone > interested. We would love to have more than one KR this year... Tom, > hint, hint. If you can fly to Oshkosh, you can make it to T'Ville, Ga. > > Darrin West > mailto:dwest@rose.net > http://www.home.rose.net/~dwest/ > Fly-In at http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ Darrin, I plan to be there. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:23:05 -0700 From: melray Subject: KR: unsubscribe thanks- see y'all later ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:51:02 -0700 From: "Harmon, Stephen R." Subject: RE: KR: 2 stokes engines There are 2 breeds of 2 strokes... Liquid cooled, and Air (read FUEL) cooled... they cannot even be compared to each other. Liquid cooled 2 strokes can be leaned to reduce carbon, more power, better mileage, longer life (aluminum doesn't like melting) and are in fact lighter with coolant system than their air cooled counterparts. They are however more complex (read more to go wrong in flight). Kawasaki demonstrated this in their 447. It was offered in air or liquid cooled versions (same block, crank, and pistons). 50% more power, 3 pounds lighter, and lower fuel burn were advertised for the liquid cooled version. All this at only 75% higher cost... what a deal? But in a KR, wouldn't the weight and balance be a problem? Does anyone know the min acceptable engine weight to make the numbers come out acceptable? The higher performance 2 strokes I've looked into (140 - 175Hp Liquid cooled) are still only about 125 pounds complete. Is it possible to move this far enough forward to have it balance? >-----Original Message----- >From: Jon Finley [SMTP:jdf@gksys.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 5:51 AM >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines > >>On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 Afzoomer@aol.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Has anyone used a 2 stoke on the KR planes? Power to weight is great and >>> All I want is the Hp and speed. Are there hidden disadvantages other >than the >>> TBO issue and the fuel mixing? > > >I flew a Rotax 503 in front of my Quickie for several years. It was far >from ideal. > >I think current two-stroke technology is such that they are much more >reliable that in the past. They now have dual CDI ignition, oil injection, >etc... The most significant problem after reliability is that they have >such a terribly narrow power band and turn high rpm. It is very tough to >get one to fly fast AND have descent low speed performance. I spent lots of >time tuning my prop to the point that I had good climb and good top speed. >Then you have the high cruise rpm issue - it really sucks to go >cross-country at 6000 rpm. The constant maintenance - plugs every 25 hrs, >decarbon cylinders every 50 hrs, etc... I could tell you my horror >stories - but that is better left to another day. > >Some guys bad mouth the VW. Gotta tell ya, I am many times more satisfied >with my 1835 VW than I ever was with the 503. > >Jon Finley jdf@gksys.com >N54JF - Quickie - 1835cc VW >N90MG - Q2 - EA-81 Subaru-Turbo/DD >Bloomington, Minnesota > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:02:56 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Soobers Warron, Do you know what the airflow rate for these are? Maybe there's a spec sheet for them somewhere? How about the going rate in $? I've only heard of them as the Altimizer from the engine builder who gets 100hp from his 2180 VW's. - -Tom WARRONFLYS@aol.com wrote: > Altimizer is a Edelbrock used on aftermarket harleys Quicksilver 2 we get them > for our krs at a reduced rate. - -- Send e-mail to mailto:tomkr2s@worldnet.att.net Web site at http://home.att.net/~tomkr2s/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:03:12 -0400 From: Tom Andersen Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Warron, Do you know what the airflow rate for these are? Maybe there's a spec sheet for them somewhere? How about the going rate in $? I've only heard of them as the Altimizer from the engine builder who gets 100hp from his 2180 VW's. - -Tom WARRONFLYS@aol.com wrote: > Altimizer is a Edelbrock used on aftermarket harleys Quicksilver 2 we get them > for our krs at a reduced rate. - -- Send e-mail to mailto:tomkr2s@worldnet.att.net Web site at http://home.att.net/~tomkr2s/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:22:14 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse Be very careful with the bathroom scales.I originally checked my weight with them and was proud as punch. we just got a hold of aircraft scales and now my wife has to loose 135 lbs, and she only weighs 132. double check with accurate scales. Maybe yours are correct but check before you make changes.Warronflys ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:34:05 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Tom Andersen wrote: > > Warron, > Do you know what the airflow rate for these are? http://www.edelbrock.com/motorcycle/qsindex.html - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:42:38 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer With the adaptor which we make the 36 mm is recomended .sorry i do not have the flow numbers. The carb plus adaptor runs $380.00 . i suggest that you use the ea82 manifold with the 81 it gains some extra hp and the yards sell them cheap usually about $25.00 bucks. you can only use the single port manifold because of the head design. the manifold generally has a injector mounted dump that. check the manifold that it only has a single port both on sides. you can run the carb without changing manifolds also. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:48:13 -0400 From: "Thomas Gatliff" Subject: KR: Unsubscribe Please Unsubscribe me for a while... Thomas Gatliff gatliff@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:51:30 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer These are more modern versions of the posa and other slide valve carb. they use a float bowl to manage fuel and seem to be very accurate.there are several sizes 32 36 38 42 mm i believe but read previious letters. S. MAKISH setup climbed to 14500 no chage in fuel mixrure as shown on our miixture gauges. only time mixture changed was when he slammed throttle shut or snapped it open then it was 3-5 seconds. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:44:53 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Get in touch with edelbrock ask them about the 34 and 36 mm carbs. WArron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:08:55 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines Harmon, Stephen R. wrote: > But in a KR, wouldn't the weight and balance be a problem? Does anyone know the min acceptable engine weight to make the numbers come out acceptable? The higher performance 2 strokes I've looked into (140 - > 175Hp Liquid cooled) are still only about 125 pounds complete. Is it > possible to move this far enough forward to have it balance? > Just for the record, I am using a 235 pound engine that is mounted on an engine mount that puts the center of its mass about 20 inches forward of the fire wall. This setup allows 350 pounds of people in the seats with 5 gallons of fuel in the header tank and my CG location is right at the aft limit. Mike "2 stroke engines do not belong in the air" Mims :o) - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:58:40 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse WARRONFLYS@aol.com wrote: > > Be very careful with the bathroom scales.I originally checked my weight with them and was proud as punch. we just got a hold of aircraft scales and now my wife has to loose 135 lbs, and she only weighs 132. double check with accurate scales. Maybe yours are correct but check before you make changes.Warronflys If my scales tell me what I want to hear I will listen to them! :o) - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:10 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer So this Quicksilver carb has already been used? Any idea what the cost of the carb is? - -Tom - -----Original Message----- From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:53 PM Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer >These are more modern versions of the posa and other slide valve carb. they >use a float bowl to manage fuel and seem to be very accurate.there are several >sizes 32 36 38 42 mm i believe but read previious letters. S. MAKISH setup >climbed to 14500 no chage in fuel mixrure as shown on our miixture gauges. >only time mixture changed was when he slammed throttle shut or snapped it open >then it was 3-5 seconds. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:49:50 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Tom Andersen wrote: > > So this Quicksilver carb has already been used? Any idea what the cost of the carb is?>>> The carbs shown on their web site are not much different than the Revflow carb I had. I saw Edelbrocks carbs at a hotrod show last year and the only difference I could see what Revmaster removed the float bowl and installed a mixture control. Some people confuse the Revflow with the Posa but they ain't the same animal or at least they look completely different. If the Edelbrock Quicksilver is the carb in use I don't know how the mixture is adjusted automatically because they don't look to be much more than a flat slide carb with a needle down the center unlike the Bing or Japanese CV carbs which use a butterfly type throttle valve and a slide connected to a vacuum diaphragm to keep the velocity constant within the venturi and provide a bit of automatic mixture control. By the way the Revflow is about. $150 cheeper. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:34:29 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Ooooooo... I liiiike... The only part I don't like is no manual mixture control above 1/3 throttle, you have to change the needle to adjust the mixture. It does have many of the features of the Ellison EFS-3, including the altitude compensating features. - -Tom - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:37 PM Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer >Tom Andersen wrote: >> >> Warron, >> Do you know what the airflow rate for these are? > >http://www.edelbrock.com/motorcycle/qsindex.html > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:11:47 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Even though the Ellison is quite a bit more $, it was at least designed as an aircraft fuel system, with a manual mixture control. Plus their entire organization can help with technical support. That's a part of the price no one thinks about until they run into an inexplicable problem. - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 5:51 PM Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer >Tom Andersen wrote: >> >> So this Quicksilver carb has already been used? Any idea what the cost of the carb is?>>> > >The carbs shown on their web site are not much different than the >Revflow carb I had. I saw Edelbrocks carbs at a hotrod show last year >and the only difference I could see what Revmaster removed the float >bowl and installed a mixture control. Some people confuse the Revflow >with the Posa but they ain't the same animal or at least they look >completely different. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:05:13 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer <<>>> Does it actually say it has altitude compensation? I missed that if it did. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:48:23 -0400 From: "Eugene Gargasz" Subject: KR: outboard evenrude 85-100 hp This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDCC73.7D7707A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've run outboard 2 cycle enjines all season vsery dependable,starter, = generator, all light wieght,ran full throttle most of the time, is there = any conversion books about them? thanks! - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDCC73.7D7707A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've run outboard 2 cycle enjines = all season=20 vsery dependable,starter, generator, all light wieght,ran full throttle = most of=20 the time, is there any conversion books about them?
thanks!
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BDCC73.7D7707A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:27:57 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: 0-200 message for N4DD In a message dated 98-08-20 04:06:03 EDT, you write: << <> I sent it at ycgb97a@prodigy.com which was part of the header. Probably a mistake on my part. I live in Manhattan Beach California but travel to Colarodo a lot so I can arrange a visit or a pickup if needed. Haris Ashraf >> Well this message came back after 3 days. It seems prodigy did not accept at both addresses. Could you please sened me an email and I'll reply to it. That might work Thanks Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:36:56 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer Oh yes, it says that he and his friends went to the mountains at 14k and his friends had no trouble, but that he had to rejet and constantly adjust his own carb which was not a QS. It also said that it would not bog down under hard landings, either [see off-road use]. It's comforting to know that the engine will keep spinning the stubs of the prop blades :) Since fuel system problems are the number one cause of off-field landings, I'll probably go with the fully developed Ellison, plus two pumps in parallel. - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 7:06 PM Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer ><< It does have many of the features of the Ellison EFS-3, including the >altitude compensating features.>>>> > > >Does it actually say it has altitude compensation? I missed that if it >did. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:41:42 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse >> This one had me thinking too Steve. Seems that every Subaru powered KR >> weighs over 800 pounds empty. I >> think Les Palmers was like 825 pounds. Something just doesn't compute! >> Let's see... 550lbs + 50lbs extra for the Subaru = 882lbs? Obviously there's a whole lot more extra weight than just the engine. But where would 280 lbs hide? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:10:53 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Soobers/Altimizer A local Pulsar owner made his first flight last Sunday. He is using a Rotax 582 engine I believe (2 cycle). When I asked him if he might go to the Pulsar fly-in in Kansas in September, he mentioned that he would have to rejet his carburetion system (unknown Make) because it was leaned/jetted for Colorado altitude. Personally, I would spend the extra bucks for a system that can be manually leaned. Ron Lee At 05:34 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >Ooooooo... I liiiike... >The only part I don't like is no manual mixture control above 1/3 throttle, >you have to change the needle to adjust the mixture. It does have many of >the features of the Ellison EFS-3, including the altitude compensating >features. >-Tom > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:26:57 EDT From: Willard561@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: outboard evenrude 85-100 hp Back in the 70's there was an series of articles in Sport Aviation. Bill Higdon Willard561@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:41 -0700 From: MARVIN MCCOY Subject: Re: KR: outboard evenrude 85-100 hp > Eugene Gargasz wrote: > > I've run outboard 2 cycle enjines all season vsery dependable,starter, > generator, all light wieght,ran full throttle most of the time, is > there any conversion books about them? > thanks! - --------------------- I think the Exec helicopter when it first came out used a boat moter conversion??? Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net - --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:51:46 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse Peter Hudson wrote: > > I just flipped my baby right side up again and weighed what I had > around. I wanted to do a preliminary weight and balance check and found > that (bathroom scales and a lot of guessing mind you) that I'll come in > around 550 lbs (plus another 50 lbs for guessing!) I mention it in this > thread because I think I'm coming out a little tail heavy. That's what > I wanted to know while doing my firewall stuff so I could make some > assumptions about motor mount extensions and battery locations. I may > still have trouble getting it to come out where I want it with my > revmaster 2100D so maybe these bigger (heavier) engines will be what I > need. Now if I could get one to burn 4 gals an hour or less... > > -Peter- One trick we use is when weighing an airplane we use the 300lb bathroom scales but i went to a farm store that had a certified scale and weighed 6 concreeete blocks ( approx. 40 lbs. ea. ) and marked the exact weight on each. Then use them to calebrate the scales to the closest weight to be measured and you will be real close. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:18:02 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines Harmon, Stephen R. wrote: > > There are 2 breeds of 2 strokes... Liquid cooled, and Air (read FUEL) > cooled... > they cannot even be compared to each other. Liquid cooled 2 strokes can > be leaned to reduce carbon, more power, better mileage, longer life > (aluminum doesn't like melting) and are in fact lighter with coolant > system than their air cooled counterparts. They are however more > complex (read more to go wrong in flight). Kawasaki demonstrated this > in their 447. It was offered in air or liquid cooled versions (same > block, crank, and pistons). 50% more power, 3 pounds lighter, and lower > fuel burn were advertised for the liquid cooled version. All this at > only 75% higher cost... what a deal? > > But in a KR, wouldn't the weight and balance be a problem? Does anyone > know the min acceptable engine weight to make the numbers come out > acceptable? The higher performance 2 strokes I've looked into (140 - > 175Hp Liquid cooled) are still only about 125 pounds complete. Is it > possible to move this far enough forward to have it balance? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Jon Finley [SMTP:jdf@gksys.com] > >Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 5:51 AM > >To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines > > > >>On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 Afzoomer@aol.com wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Has anyone used a 2 stoke on the KR planes? Power to weight is great and > >>> All I want is the Hp and speed. Are there hidden disadvantages other > >than the > >>> TBO issue and the fuel mixing? > > > > > >I flew a Rotax 503 in front of my Quickie for several years. It was far > >from ideal. > > > >I think current two-stroke technology is such that they are much more > >reliable that in the past. They now have dual CDI ignition, oil injection, > >etc... The most significant problem after reliability is that they have > >such a terribly narrow power band and turn high rpm. It is very tough to > >get one to fly fast AND have descent low speed performance. I spent lots of > >time tuning my prop to the point that I had good climb and good top speed. > >Then you have the high cruise rpm issue - it really sucks to go > >cross-country at 6000 rpm. The constant maintenance - plugs every 25 hrs, > >decarbon cylinders every 50 hrs, etc... I could tell you my horror > >stories - but that is better left to another day. > > > >Some guys bad mouth the VW. Gotta tell ya, I am many times more satisfied > >with my 1835 VW than I ever was with the 503. > > > >Jon Finley jdf@gksys.com > >N54JF - Quickie - 1835cc VW > >N90MG - Q2 - EA-81 Subaru-Turbo/DD > >Bloomington, Minnesota > > My next project is a KR-1 ( similar ) with a Rotax 582. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #139 *****************************