From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, August 22, 1998 10:11 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #140 krnet-l-digest Saturday, August 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 140 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:53:37 EDT From: Genseric@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: 2 stokes engines In a message dated 98-08-20 23:26:17 EDT, you write: << But in a KR, wouldn't the weight and balance be a problem? Does anyone > know the min acceptable engine weight to make the numbers come out > acceptable? The higher performance 2 strokes I've looked into (140 - > 175Hp Liquid cooled) are still only about 125 pounds complete. Is it > possible to move this far enough forward to have it balance? >> If you recall an artical in a past issue of Kitplanes where they used a jet engine in a KR all they really did was extend the engine mounts to counter balance. Ben Raby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:49:21 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: Re: KR: THOMASVILLE FLY-IN Great news Tom!!! I look forward to seeing you in Thomasville. Check back offten to http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2032/ to see updates on the Fly-In. I am currently changing the format of the page, it is becoming a site instead of a page!! There are many new pictures going up early next week. Darrin West mailto:dwest@rose.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:02:56 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael Taglieri) Subject: KR: Re: hinge material > So, if we follow the thread about "binding", and want to go to two >hinges (three will bind), >>>> > >Why would three bind? I think (could be wrong) three is the number of >hinges used on low wing Pipers and Cessnas. I assume what this meant was that three CAN bind, if you don't line them up right (as anyone knows who's tried to hang a door with three hinges). Two are much less likely to bind, even if the alignment isn't quite right. Piper's and Cessna's use of hinges also relates back to Oscar's initial question. If these much bigger and heavier planes can fly for decades with little pieces of extruded hinge, it is overkill for the KR to use full-length extruded hinge, so a builder could cut costs by either reducing the amount of extruded hinge or the quality of the hinge by using the open-ended ones. Certainly the second way would be easier, since you wouldn't have alignment problems, and you'd be reducing only the failure strength of the hinge without changing the nature of the design. Using small pieces of hinge would leave gaps for air passage during flight unless you sealed them somehow. Mike Taglieri - ------------------------------------------------ 'Mine goes up to 11' - ------------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:33:14 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: I'm out of town My apologies to anyone who has been trying to reach me, I'll be out of town until the first of September and will get to my email then. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get any direct email access where I am, I just stumbled onto this "multimedia center" and they're letting me send an email through AOL - -- don't ask, it's a long story. If someone could send me a copy of the Gathering Agenda I sent out awhile ago, I'd appreciate it. On the off chance that I am able to get my computer hooked to a phone line somewhere, it will help me with some last minute planning details, as I didn't have room to bring all of my gathering files with me. Ok, so actually I forgot them.... I hope everyone is getting jazzed for the gathering, if you have any questions please give Don Betchan a call!!! Cheers! Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com Yongsan, South Korea (temporarily) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:23:26 -0400 From: jerry Subject: KR: unsubscribe please unsubscribe me for awhile jerry williams jerry@isaac.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:38:36 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Bathroom scales Guys, you can solve all the problems associated with bathroom scales by simply going out and buying two more cheap ones. Use two scales per main and build a frame out of 2X4s with two feet (located on the scale just where you two feet would hit) per scale with two 2X4s tying the two scales together. The tailwheel can use just one scale. Build you a couple of ramps to roll you bird up onto this setup and then you just add up two figures per main, less the weight of the the frame. The problem with bathroom scales is they were not made to have all the weight located in one spot in the center of the scale. The frame spreads the weight between two scales and puts that weight where your feet would be. Works great. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:29:08 PDT From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? >The higher performance 2 strokes I've looked into (140 - >> 175Hp Liquid cooled) are still only about 125 pounds complete. Is it >> possible to move this far enough forward to have it balance? There lots of helpful engine info on this list but I think there are other discussion lists that are probably a little better suited to ridiculous comparisons of 2 strokes versus outboard motors vs corvair anchors. I think that most KR builders understand what engines are most suited for theses airplanes, including the BDIC (Big Dog in Chino). As far as weight and balance - buy a calculator. Flame away! Richard E. Parker Jaffrey, NH richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:39:20 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR: Bathroom scales Would a 8"x8" or so piece of plywood on ONE scale accomplish the same thing? Ron "Bubba Engineer" Lee At 07:38 AM 8/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >Guys, you can solve all the problems associated with bathroom scales by simply >going out and buying two more cheap ones. Use two scales per main and build a >frame out of 2X4s with two feet (located on the scale just where you two feet >would hit) per scale with two 2X4s tying the two scales together. The >tailwheel can use just one scale. Build you a couple of ramps to roll you >bird up onto this setup and then you just add up two figures per main, less >the weight of the the frame. The problem with bathroom scales is they were >not made to have all the weight located in one spot in the center of the >scale. The frame spreads the weight between two scales and puts that weight >where your feet would be. > >Works great. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:21:29 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse WARRONFLYS@aol.com wrote: > > Be very careful with the bathroom scales.I originally checked my weight with > them and was proud as punch. we just got a hold of aircraft scales and now my > wife has to loose 135 lbs, and she only weighs 132. double check with > accurate scales. Maybe yours are correct but check before you make > changes.Warronflys I went to Wallymart and bought 3 cheap bathroom scales for my preliminary W&B. When I did my final one with certified aircraft scales, supervised by an A&P, the difference was about 2 or 3 pounds. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:00:20 EDT From: Afzoomer@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? bad attitude ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:17:08 -0700 From: melray Subject: Re: KR: Engine weight- dead horse you might find a known quantity of water to be a readily available constant weight as well- 1 gal. 5 gals, etc I had a system crash and lost a WONDERFUL list of engine weights someone sent me - are you still out there, good sir? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:49:03 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: I'm out of town > If someone could send me a copy of the Gathering Agenda I > sent out awhile ago, > I'd appreciate it. I emailed it to him, so let's not send him 20 copies... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:55:33 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Richard Parker wrote: >I think that most KR builders understand what engines are >most suited >for theses airplanes, including the BDIC (Big Dog in Chino). > If that means me (yeah like who else huh?:o) ) I think your right. In the words of homebuilt construction GURU Tony Bingelis, "You see a lot of neat automotive conversions at airshows but most of them are bolted to test stands, I wonder why?" I would like to apologize if a lot of guys out there take my stabs wrong, for those of you who don't know me that well I like to clown around a lot and give people a hard time (Just ask Robert Covington). I am not really as big of a jerk as I seem! :o) here are many possibilities for power but being around homebuilt aircraft A LOT, I have noticed that the guys who fly them the most are the guys with certified engines and or proven conversions (Revmaster, GPASC, etc.)not outboard motors, extinct GM products or snowmobile engines. There is one guy a few hangers down with a beautiful 3/4 scale Jenny and he is on his third engine. First two were air cooled rotax units that blew up! Each time he had an off airport landing/crash. He has installed a water cool rotax and so far so good! I think it would sound sooooo much better with a 2180 VW up front and maybe go faster than 65 mph! :o) > As far as weight and balance - buy a calculator. > I like that one! Or you could simply down load the many spreadsheets that are available at the builders web sites. Mike "the barking dog" Mims - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:15:32 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? At 07:55 AM 8/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Richard Parker wrote: >>I think that most KR builders understand what engines are >most suited >for theses airplanes, including the BDIC (Big Dog in Chino). >> > >here are many possibilities for power but being around homebuilt >aircraft A LOT, I have noticed that the guys who fly them the most are >the guys with certified engines and or proven conversions (Revmaster, >GPASC, etc.)not outboard motors, extinct GM products or snowmobile >engines. The BIG problem with auto conversions is that you become the design, test and flight engineer all by yourself. Even if you are qualified to do this, as I am, it still takes a lot of time and patience, and will delay your project for many months, or even years. I myself would really like to build a KR2, I think it is a really neat design. I have the plans, I have the knowledge, but I'm 61 years old and weigh 250 #. I'm just not a good fit for that airframe. At this point, I'm seriously considering a Fisher Horizon, with something like a GPASC kit engine. It would certainly get me flying much sooner then redisigning the KR for my needs. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. FidoNet: 1:379/33 Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:22:14 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > I myself would really like to build a KR2, I think it is a really neat design. I have the plans, I have the knowledge, but I'm 61 years old and weigh 250 #. I'm just not a good fit for that airframe. > What about building a KR2S and just sitting in the middle? Its been done before and with the canopy tilting forward it should be easier to get in if you build a walkway on the wing. If you need two seats then I guess this is out of the question. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:56:48 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > > I myself would really like to build a KR2, I think it is a really neat design. > I have the plans, I have the knowledge, but I'm 61 years old and weigh 250 > #. I'm just not a good fit for that airframe. > I agree completely. I am 6'8" (204cm) tall and 230#. That is one of the main reasons that I am half way through my sixth year of constructions and well over 3000 hours. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:14:46 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? At 09:22 AM 8/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: >> I myself would really like to build a KR2, I think it is a really neat design. I have the plans, I have the knowledge, but I'm 61 years old and weigh 250 #. I'm just not a good fit for that airframe. >> > >What about building a KR2S and just sitting in the middle? Its been >done before and with the canopy tilting forward it should be easier to >get in if you build a walkway on the wing. If you need two seats then I >guess this is out of the question. I could make it a KR 1 1/2 I suppose. I would rather be able to take someone along though. I'm still thinking about all this. The Soob builders seem to have some interesting alternatives. I have the same problem as just about everyone else has. Aircraft engines are so outragesly expensive, that an auto conversion seems about the only real alternative. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. FidoNet: 1:379/33 Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:27:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > I have the same problem as just about everyone else has. Aircraft engines are so outragesly expensive, that an auto conversion seems about the only real alternative. > > WD > Wayne DeLisle Sr In our case I have to disagree with this. We need an engine with 80 to 100 hp and since I started looking (about 1 year ago) I have passed up no less than 5 Continental engines that I could have purchased for under $3k. Two of them were even running! I was very close to sending one guy a check for his O-200 when I came across my Lycoming. It was said to be low time and running when it was removed from the aircraft and I paid $1800 for it minus mags. The prices I have seen for good used or rebuildable certified engines are far from outrageously expensive. Now if you need parts! That's another story! :o) Since I have acquired the Lycoming I have kept my eyes and ears open for spare parts and I have located 3 cylinders that could be had for $300 or $400 a piece (they are new) and a whole slew of other parts (even a crank). - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:00:49 -0400 From: msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) Subject: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? I hate to add fuel to this fire. But I guess while we're on the subject, is anyone planning on using the 80HP Jabaru (2200 model) engine in their project? It looks very attractive at only 123 lb with exaust, carb, starter, alternator, and mags. I notice they also have a 120HP six cylinder version available at only 150 lb. I guess they're a little expensive, but definately not outragious. Tiger Aviation (http://www.tigeraviation.com) has the model 2200 listed at $8950.00! Mike Sharkey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:59:52 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? At 10:27 AM 8/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > >> I have the same problem as just about everyone else has. Aircraft engines are so outragesly expensive, that an auto conversion seems about the only real alternative. >> >> WD >> Wayne DeLisle Sr > >In our case I have to disagree with this. We need an engine with 80 to >100 hp and since I started looking (about 1 year ago) I have passed up >no less than 5 Continental engines that I could have purchased for under >$3k. Two of them were even running! I was very close to sending one >guy a check for his O-200 when I came across my Lycoming. It was said >to be low time and running when it was removed from the aircraft and I >paid $1800 for it minus mags. The prices I have seen for good used or >rebuildable certified engines are far from outrageously expensive. Now >if you need parts! That's another story! :o) Since I have acquired >the Lycoming I have kept my eyes and ears open for spare parts and I >have located 3 cylinders that could be had for $300 or $400 a piece >(they are new) and a whole slew of other parts (even a crank). Nothing wrong with that. It's good that you are located so that you can find such bargins. Actually, an O-200 doesn't sound too bad at those prices. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. FidoNet: 1:379/33 Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:03:53 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? At 02:00 PM 8/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >I hate to add fuel to this fire. But I guess while we're on the subject, is >anyone planning >on using the 80HP Jabaru (2200 model) engine in their project? It looks very >attractive >at only 123 lb with exaust, carb, starter, alternator, and mags. I notice they >also have >a 120HP six cylinder version available at only 150 lb. I guess they're a little >expensive, >but definately not outragious. Tiger Aviation (http://www.tigeraviation.com) >has the model 2200 >listed at $8950.00! > I've considered that one too. For a brand new engine, fully equipped, the price is not too bad, but still outside my budget for the forseeable future. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. FidoNet: 1:379/33 Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:00:43 -0700 From: rdewees@juno.com Subject: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Hi Mike.. Thanks for the plug for the Jabaru. I bought one for my project and hope it meets all the published specs. You are right on the weight figures and the EAA magazine review of the Sonex with 2200 Jabaru seems to confirm that it's a relaible and quiet motor. I note that the price has gone to about the same as the Rotax 912, but it was about 2K less when it came out and I got mine. I have a real concern about loading up those little wings with 800# + empty weights. Even if you cruze at 200 you have to land and the big block horsepower is extra wing loading and higher landing speed. Ron DeWees Kr2 project in Atlanta On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:00:49 -0400 msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) writes: >I hate to add fuel to this fire. But I guess while we're on the >subject, is >anyone planning >on using the 80HP Jabaru (2200 model) engine in their project? It >looks very >attractive >at only 123 lb with exaust, carb, starter, alternator, and mags. I >notice they >also have >a 120HP six cylinder version available at only 150 lb. I guess they're >a little >expensive, >but definately not outragious. Tiger Aviation >(http://www.tigeraviation.com) >has the model 2200 >listed at $8950.00! > >Mike Sharkey > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:07:32 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Bathroom scales In a message dated 98-08-21 08:47:58 EDT, you write: << Would a 8"x8" or so piece of plywood on ONE scale accomplish the same thing? Ron "Bubba Engineer" Lee >> Hey bubba, yes it would but it would not accomplish one aspect that the two feet do and that is to split the weight of each main onto two scales thereby lowering the weight each one has to measure. Bathroom scales seem to be more accurate in the mid-range scale. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:25:05 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Micheal Mims wrote: > > Richard Parker wrote: > >I think that most KR builders understand what engines are >most suited >for theses airplanes, including the BDIC (Big Dog in Chino). > > > > If that means me (yeah like who else huh?:o) ) I think your right. In > the words of homebuilt construction GURU Tony Bingelis, "You see a lot > of neat automotive conversions at airshows but most of them are bolted > to test stands, I wonder why?" > > I would like to apologize if a lot of guys out there take my stabs > wrong, for those of you who don't know me that well I like to clown > around a lot and give people a hard time (Just ask Robert Covington). I > am not really as big of a jerk as I seem! :o) > > here are many possibilities for power but being around homebuilt > aircraft A LOT, I have noticed that the guys who fly them the most are > the guys with certified engines and or proven conversions (Revmaster, > GPASC, etc.)not outboard motors, extinct GM products or snowmobile > engines. > > There is one guy a few hangers down with a beautiful 3/4 scale Jenny and > he is on his third engine. First two were air cooled rotax units that > blew up! Each time he had an off airport landing/crash. He has > installed a water cool rotax and so far so good! I think it would sound > sooooo much better with a 2180 VW up front and maybe go faster than 65 > mph! :o) > > > > As far as weight and balance - buy a calculator. > > > > I like that one! Or you could simply down load the many spreadsheets > that are available at the builders web sites. > > Mike "the barking dog" Mims > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeeaahh, your a big jerk ;o)) Hey Mike don't knock yourself. Everything you say is usually right on if some are thinned skinned - tough. Of course we all know that you are biased with that big varoom beyond the fire wall. Life would be very dull if we did not have someone like you to give it a kick. Keep it up!! - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:43:19 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Adrian Carter wrote: > I am not really as big of a jerk as I seem! :o) > Yeeaahh, your a big jerk ;o)) > Hey Mike don't knock yourself. Everything you say is usually right on >if some are thinned skinned - tough. Of course we all know that you are > biased with that big varoom beyond the fire wall. Life would be very > dull if we did not have someone like you to give it a kick. Keep it up!! > -- Uhhh,..thanks I think. :o) Hey if that Lycasaurous comes to life this winter and all systems are go I may venture up your way sometime in the spring. Who knows if the weather is good I may cruise on over to Alaska to visit my family. My friend Brad wants to fly to Alaska but he s waiting on his wing man to finish his airplane! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:48:30 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? i wonder if anyone else noted the prop on the sonex powered jabiru. very similar to an 1835 as far as pitch and diameter steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:43:30 -0700 From: Darrin West Subject: Re: KR: THOMASVILLE FLY-IN Sorry fellows, the web address for the Thomasville Fly-In is http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/2032/ Hey, nobody's perfect!! Darrin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:03:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven A Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Great Plains Aircraft wrote: > i wonder if anyone else noted the prop on the sonex powered jabiru. > very similar to an 1835 as far as pitch and diameter steve > According to Europa the Jabiru doesn't have the torque to spin a long prop. It makes its power at higher RPM so they wern't interrested in it because of the smaller prop that would have to be used. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:24:39 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: wayne dewitt Wayne, there are many pprojects almost completed out there. i am 6ft 192 and built a stretch. slightly modified you'll fit. look at the performance of the thing be it with v w's or soobs good airplane.Warronflys ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:27:47 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Me again, did you know that the ea-81 was originally designed as an aircraft engine by fuji industries and then later stuffed into cars? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:13:18 -0600 From: Mortensen Subject: KR: Flaps, or let's leave the dead horse In the interest of a new thread how about this question? I have noticed that many of the higher performance gliders which fly at competitions have flaps. (no news there) The interesting thing is that they have negative settings. Have been thinking that given the 3.5% incidence a negative flap would work well. Not being an aeronautical engineer I may not fully understand what is going on there but it would seem to me that with a negative flap setting you would effectively decrease the incidence of that portion of the wing. Any comments. And on the dead horse issue, any comment on the Hirth F30 Henning Mortensen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:35:50 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: Flaps, Mortensen wrote: > > In the interest of a new thread how about this question? > > I have noticed that many of the higher performance gliders which fly at > competitions have flaps. (no news there) > > The interesting thing is that they have negative settings. Have been > thinking that given the 3.5% incidence a negative flap would work well. Some airfoils have a high negative pitch moment. That means that the airfoil is trying to point downhill when it is creating lift. This in turn acts as additional weight that the wing must support, which means more drag. These types of airfoils have a trailing edge that points down. Airfoils with a lower pitch moment have trailing edges that are reflexed up. Life is a compromise, with airfoils, a high lift coefficient (unflapped) means a more negative pitch moment. By reflexing the trailing edge up in flight, you remove or eliminate the additional drag produced by the pitch moment. The amount of reflex and drag and etc are all a function of many things, so there is no quick answer. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:06:25 -0400 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Warron, It certainly looks that way when you look inside, and Subaru initially stuffed a few of them into an airplane to demonstrate it's reliability to the car market. The airplane looked a bit like an Ercoupe. If anyone's interested in joining a list call Airsig, they delve into EA-81 conversions in detail. E-mail me privately using my address below. - -Tom mailto:tomkr2s@worldnet.att.net - -----Original Message----- From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 7:29 PM Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? >Me again, did you know that the ea-81 was originally designed as an aircraft >engine by fuji industries and then later stuffed into cars? > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:00:50 From: Austin Clark Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? While we are on the subject of engines, I thought I would forward this to the list. I have never heard of a Sax 86, but maybe someone else has and could provide some info. >Have you any information about an engine called a Sax 86. I believe it >is derived from a Fiat Auto engine, develops 96 HP and only weighs in at >only 178lbs. this is all I know, I am not a KR bulder, Yet! but am >looking for a suitable engine for my home built 2 place gyro that will >keep me within the Ultralight weight limit here of 426lbs empty. >Regards >Eric >Denmark. "James E. Meakin" Austin Clark Pascagoula, MS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:13:47 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Careful about telling me a 250# human frame doesn't fit in a KR. My KR is only stretched in the tail and has the streamlined top deck. The cockpit is stock KR-2 sized and I fit OK. I also take passengers up to 150# in it pretty regularly. I have flown 120 hours in it since it's first flight in June of last year. There was no redesigning of the aircraft to fit me other than lowering the seat sling. Any other changes from plans are purely incidental and wouldn't have mattered if I weighed 105# (the minimum pilot weight to get my plane into the front of the CG range). Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:15:32 -0400 "Wayne DeLisle Sr." writes: >I myself would really like to build a KR2, I think it is a really neat design. > I have the plans, I have the knowledge, but I'm 61 years old and weigh 250 >#. I'm just not a good fit for that airframe. > >At this point, I'm seriously considering a Fisher Horizon, with something >like a GPASC kit >engine. It would certainly get me flying much sooner then redisigning >the KR for my needs. > >WD >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >FidoNet: 1:379/33 >Email:support@sestar.net > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:15:32 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: cockpit size In a message dated 98-08-22 01:45:03 EDT, you write: << Careful about telling me a 250# human frame doesn't fit in a KR. My KR is only stretched in the tail and has the streamlined top deck. The cockpit is stock KR-2 sized and I fit OK. >> 6', 165 lbs. here and fit in my standard 2 just fine. VWub forever!!!!! (couldn't help it :-)) Will crank it up again today just for the fun of it. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:27:00 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? In a message dated 8/21/98, 2:03:58 PM, krnet-l@teleport.com writes: <> You should call Jeanette Rand to get more info. Sh told me six months ago that a Jabriu cowl was even going to be available. I 120 HP derated at 100 at altitude should be a good 200 mph cruise engine. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:59:34 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Micheal Mims wrote: > > Wayne DeLisle Sr. wrote: > > > I have the same problem as just about everyone else has. Aircraft engines are so outragesly expensive, that an auto conversion seems about the only real alternative. > > > > WD > > Wayne DeLisle Sr > > In our case I have to disagree with this. We need an engine with 80 to > 100 hp and since I started looking (about 1 year ago) I have passed up > no less than 5 Continental engines that I could have purchased for under > $3k. Two of them were even running! I was very close to sending one > guy a check for his O-200 when I came across my Lycoming. It was said > to be low time and running when it was removed from the aircraft and I > paid $1800 for it minus mags. The prices I have seen for good used or > rebuildable certified engines are far from outrageously expensive. Now > if you need parts! That's another story! :o) Since I have acquired > the Lycoming I have kept my eyes and ears open for spare parts and I > have located 3 cylinders that could be had for $300 or $400 a piece > (they are new) and a whole slew of other parts (even a crank). > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mike If you need mag gears I think that I have 2. The mags that came with my O-200 are about 1" shy of being big enough. Someone thought the were for a Lycoming. Give me part no's. and I'll check. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:08:14 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? Great Plains Aircraft wrote: > > i wonder if anyone else noted the prop on the sonex powered jabiru. > very similar to an 1835 as far as pitch and diameter steve Steve Where are on the new drive off the flywheel end? I think this will revive the type 4 and run circles around the Soob. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:14:07 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? At 09:59 PM 8/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >Mike >If you need mag gears I think that I have 2. The mags that came with my >O-200 are about 1" shy of being big enough. Someone thought the were for a Lycoming. Give me part no's. and I'll check. >Jean >N4DD > I have a set of mags now and they came with gears. Thanks for the offer though. Lycoming mag gears are about 2 inches across maybe more maybe less. Anybody got a vacume pump gear for a Lycoming? PS Mag gears are REALLY expensive by the way. Almost as good as gold! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:48:23 -0400 From: mike cochran Subject: KR: Ailerons Can someone tell me what size heimjoints to use to connect ailerons to bellcranks. The bolthole size, the thread size, and where do you find left threaded connector for one end of rod. Thanks Mike Cochran ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:03:54 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: KR: Re: Has this turned into an engine List? You'll find that those Continental mag gears go for about $300 each. There is also a relatively new service bulletin covering Continental mag gears manufactured between Oct 91 and Dec 97. Watch what you buy. Write me off line if you want the full details of the service bulletin. FWIW, I bought a high time C-85 for $2500 to get my plane in the air. It will get me several years of flying while I recover from the building costs before I have to overhaul it. It seemed to me to be the quicker and overall most economical way to get my plane into the air and put off the major engine costs until later. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:14:07 -0700 Micheal Mims writes: >At 09:59 PM 8/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Mike >>If you need mag gears I think that I have 2. The mags that came with >my >>O-200 are about 1" shy of being big enough. Someone thought the were >for a >Lycoming. Give me part no's. and I'll check. >>Jean >>N4DD >> > > >I have a set of mags now and they came with gears. Thanks for the >offer >though. > >Lycoming mag gears are about 2 inches across maybe more maybe less. >Anybody got a vacume pump gear for a Lycoming? > >PS Mag gears are REALLY expensive by the way. Almost as good as gold! >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #140 *****************************