From: owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 7:44 PM To: krnet-l-digest@teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #146 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 146 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 11:35:54 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael Taglieri) Subject: Re: KR: protect tanks with vinylester? (not KR related) >>As I've mentioned here before, I'm also on a mailing list for classic >>English motorcycles. >> >>It occured to me that if vinylester is really the most fuel-proof >resin, >>it might be possible to coat the inside of a preexisting motorcycle >tank >>with that to increase the tank's lifespan. I was thinking about >mixing >>up a quart or so of the stuff and just sloshing it around for a few >>minutes, then allowing it to drain. Maybe more than one coat would >be >>desirable. >> >>Presumably the bond to old, gasoline-pickled fiberglass would not be >>good, but if the vinylester formed a solid shell inside the tank, it >>wouldn't need to bond very well, since there would be no forces >tending >>to detach it. Does anyone have opinions about whether this would >work >>and improve the durability of these tanks? >> >>Mike Taglieri >> >> > >Mike, You may need to find a way to scratch the interior surface of >the tank >before attemping to use the vinylester. I would like to suggest that >you >could use small sharp rocks or similiar materials to help prepare the >surface for the resin. > >Another thought... You could sand the exterior down to bare fiberglass >and >vacuum-bag the exterior while allowing the interior to cure. This >could >draw the vinylester into whatever pin holes there may be. Sanding the exterior would not be an option for me. We're talking about the original paint job on a gas tank that may be older than some of the people on this list, and the whole point is I want to preserve it. However, scratching the surface of the inside is a very interesting thought. Either small rocks or even nuts and bolts might work, and I could use some kind of fluid (detergent and water?) to help float away the crud. Sure wish aviation gas were an option for these old bikes.... Mike Taglieri - ------------------------------------------------ 'Mine goes up to 11' - ------------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:12:43 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Congrats, Kobus Good deal, Kobus- glad to hear another KR is in the air. As I recall, yours was previously flying but you took it down for rebuild? Enjoy those hours in the air. Since I couldn't go out and fly a KR, I did the next best thing- took the Super Cub out before dawn, did my 3 stop 'n' goes, and I'm good for another 90 days of night/taildragger/VFR. I love that dawn patrol flying before the tower opens! It will be hard to build a "day only" aircraft after having enjoyed night flying so much. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:51:49 -0400 From: Kip Anderson Subject: Re: KR: protect tanks with vinylester? (not KR related) Just a thought, what about mounting the tank in a fixture to rotate it with the vinyl ester inside. A slow turning lathe would spread the resin if the tank does not have too many irregular curves. Kip Titusville Fl. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:38:10 -0500 From: "Terry Chizek" Subject: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus - ---------- > From: Oscar Zuniga > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Congrats, Kobus > Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 3:12 PM > > Good deal, Kobus- glad to hear another KR is in the air. I test flow my kr2 sat. after that strom blow the hager door in on it back in june but i had a spark plug blow out . Is anybody haveing problem with their V.W stipping out the spark plug . I put steal insire but had them come out too . I.m thaking about taping it out for a biger plug ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:10:52 +0200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: Thanx Thank you to all those who congratulated me after my first flight. If you missed the mail with the URL try again..... http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/firstfl.htm Kobus de Wet Cape Town, South Africa GMT + 2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:08:26 +0200 From: Kobus de Wet Subject: KR: First flight pictures The web page has been updated and the intrepid aviator walk away to flight another day.....!!!!!!! http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/firstfl.htm If you are interested in what I look like go to. http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/page2.htm Kobus de Wet Cape Town, South Africa GMT + 2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ Kobus de Wet Cape Town, South Africa GMT + 2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:19:11 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus - -----Original Message----- Subject: KR: Congrats, Kobus Congrats. I got your email after you visited my site, but your reply-to got mixed up and I couldn't reply. Been off-project for most of this summer but am 90% completed now with just wings to attach and paint. Once again, congrats. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:24:00 -0400 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Re: Thanx - -----Original Message----- From: Kobus de Wet To: 'krnet' Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 6:11 PM Subject: KR: Thanx >Thank you to all those who congratulated me after my first flight. >If you missed the mail with the URL try again..... > >http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/firstfl.htm > William Tell on the fly? Nice music. Caught me off guard though. :-) - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:25:10 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Firewall access panel Hi gang, I planning on putting an access panel on my firewall to be able to reach brake master cylinders and rudder cables from the front of the plane. It will be about 8 inches tall and 16 inches long. It will also serve to create the extra 1/2 inch I need for the pedals at full deflection. Any tips on a good method to seal it up? It will probably need to slide in as half of it will be behind the mag/starter of the revmaster I'm currently thinking of a rubber P seal inside of a high temp seal. It should seal all fluids,fumes,flames for as log as the basic firewall can. I may just use baffle seal (protected by the fiberfrax/metal over the cover) and struggle with little clearance for fastener removal. I only expect to need to remove it during annuals (after the initial tinkering stage!) I prefer this concept to the removable fuel tank and forward deck set up and like I said I needed a little extra room at the brakes anyway. - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:02:09 -0700 From: Peter Hudson Subject: KR: Progress Just an update I think I post these progress reports more so I feel like I'm making some rather than for your comments, but heres another one. I had the plane upside down so I could do the wheel pants and gear fairings...They're done and filled/sanded. I've finished filling/sanding the bottom of the plane but left it in primer and flipped her upright again. I've put on the firewall and (see other post from tonight) cut in an access panel for getting to the brakes from the front. I then beefed up the upper motor mount beam. BEEF-UP NOT PER PLANS! What I did was use some uni-glass and BID cloth to build up at the motor mount bolts. I also used some uni-glass and BID cloth and tape in the corners between the plywood shear panels and the spruce beam and around onto the longerons. There were to many little pieces of wood in those joints for my taste so basically I glassed the $%#@ out of it (in clean sort of way). I also welded up some 7/16" "nutplates" which will be glassed in for the motor mount bolts. I went this route for because I don't want a removable tank so putting bolts in from behind would be hard or impossible (not at first but after the tank's in, if I need longer/shorter bolts for CG reasons. Particularly if I need LONG ones). I plan to saftey wire the heads of the bolts in the engine compartment. Lastly I've been working through my tailwheel delema. I got a hold of some 5/8" UNI glass/epoxy rod and did bending tests on it. After backing out strength and stiffness data I made up a glass spring which give a total of 20 inches to the tailwheel's point of contact with the ground and is about 1-1/16" dia at the fuselage tapered to about 5/8" dia at the tailwheel fitting. I welded a mounting pad/tube together which bolts to the tailwheel block and the spring fits into so it leaves the bottom of the plane at 10 degrees (which works with the 10 degree 5/8" homebuilt tailwheel fitting from aircraft spruce.) Total weight for mount-pad/spring/tailwheel-assy is 3.9 pounds (2.8 lbs is just the full swivel tailwheel). I designed for a 4g load at 1100 lb gross aft cg. This roughly corresponds to an 8.5 fps decent three-wheel-landing and about 4.0 inches of deflection of the spring. Well as usual I ran on a little long. Talk to you later... - -Peter Hudson- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:42:45 +0200 From: Rian Mey Subject: KR: RE: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.B93931E0 Content-Type: text/plain Congratulations Kobus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Kobus de Wet [SMTP:jfdewet@intekom.co.za] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:16 PM > To: 'Christo Kriek' > Cc: 'Dick and Sandra'; 'Georgia de Wet'; 'Grant Laidlaw'; 'Hendrine > de Wet'; 'Japie.DeWet'; 'Kosie de Wet au'; 'krnet'; 'Louis Frouws'; > 'MEJ. C DE WET'; 'Paul Kruger'; 'Rian Mey'; 'Rob Matthews'; 'Werner > Butterworth' > Subject: KR: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight > > KR-2 ZS-WPX was flown for the first time today (Saturday 05/09/98) at > 12:30 > (GMT + 2:00) The pilot was Louis Frouws and the total flying time for > the > flight was 20 minutes..... > > > Kobus de Wet > Cape Town, South Africa > GMT + 2.00 > http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.B93931E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight

Congratulations = Kobus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Kobus de Wet = [SMTP:jfdewet@intekom.co.za]
    Sent:   Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:16 PM
    To:     'Christo Kriek'
    Cc:     'Dick and Sandra'; 'Georgia de Wet'; 'Grant Laidlaw'; = 'Hendrine de Wet'; 'Japie.DeWet'; 'Kosie de Wet  au'; 'krnet'; = 'Louis Frouws'; 'MEJ. C DE WET'; 'Paul Kruger'; 'Rian Mey'; 'Rob = Matthews'; 'Werner Butterworth'

    Subject:       = KR: KR-2   ZS-WPX  = First flight

    KR-2 ZS-WPX was = flown for the first time today (Saturday 05/09/98) at 12:30
    (GMT + 2:00) The = pilot was Louis Frouws and the total flying time for the
    flight was 20 = minutes.....


    Kobus de Wet
    Cape Town, South = Africa
    GMT + 2.00
    http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/

- ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.B93931E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:43:33 +0200 From: Rian Mey Subject: KR: RE: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.D50263B0 Content-Type: text/plain Congratulations Kobus!!!!!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Kobus de Wet [SMTP:jfdewet@intekom.co.za] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:16 PM > To: 'Christo Kriek' > Cc: 'Dick and Sandra'; 'Georgia de Wet'; 'Grant Laidlaw'; 'Hendrine > de Wet'; 'Japie.DeWet'; 'Kosie de Wet au'; 'krnet'; 'Louis Frouws'; > 'MEJ. C DE WET'; 'Paul Kruger'; 'Rian Mey'; 'Rob Matthews'; 'Werner > Butterworth' > Subject: KR: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight > > KR-2 ZS-WPX was flown for the first time today (Saturday 05/09/98) at > 12:30 > (GMT + 2:00) The pilot was Louis Frouws and the total flying time for > the > flight was 20 minutes..... > > > Kobus de Wet > Cape Town, South Africa > GMT + 2.00 > http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.D50263B0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight

Congratulations = Kobus!!!!!!!!!

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Kobus de Wet = [SMTP:jfdewet@intekom.co.za]
    Sent:   Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:16 PM
    To:     'Christo Kriek'
    Cc:     'Dick and Sandra'; 'Georgia de Wet'; 'Grant Laidlaw'; = 'Hendrine de Wet'; 'Japie.DeWet'; 'Kosie de Wet  au'; 'krnet'; = 'Louis Frouws'; 'MEJ. C DE WET'; 'Paul Kruger'; 'Rian Mey'; 'Rob = Matthews'; 'Werner Butterworth'

    Subject:       = KR: KR-2   ZS-WPX  = First flight

    KR-2 ZS-WPX was = flown for the first time today (Saturday 05/09/98) at 12:30
    (GMT + 2:00) The = pilot was Louis Frouws and the total flying time for the
    flight was 20 = minutes.....


    Kobus de Wet
    Cape Town, South = Africa
    GMT + 2.00
    http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/

- ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDDA2A.D50263B0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:40:04 EDT From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus I had trouble with stripping out plug holes. I found the plug extended into the cylender, and carbon building up on the plug striped out the thread when you took out the plug. I put two washers on each plug and also anti seize compound. After that, no more problems. ( You can have the holes welded up and rethreaded. or buy new heads.) Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:06:01 -0500 From: "Terry Chizek" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus - ---------- > From: Krwr1@aol.com > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Re: Congrats, Kobus > Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 8:40 AM > > I had trouble with stripping out plug holes. I found the plug extended into > the cylender, and carbon building up on the plug striped out the thread when > you took out the plug. > > I put two washers on each plug and also anti seize compound. After that, no > more problems. > > ( You can have the holes welded up and rethreaded. or buy new heads.) Thanks that was the problem going to get it welded and have it flying by perry OK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:06:57 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight John F. Esch wrote: > > Congrats. This motivated me enough to get me back in the garage to work > on the KR after a 3 month absence. > > John F. Esch > Salem, OR > > foster schuren wrote: > > > Congraulations, from Foster Schuren KR_2r Ssanford, Florida USA.(just > > received > > your message.) good luck. > > > > Kobus de Wet wrote: > > > > > KR-2 ZS-WPX was flown for the first time today (Saturday 05/09/98) > > at 12:30 > > > (GMT + 2:00) The pilot was Louis Frouws and the total flying time > > for the > > > flight was 20 minutes..... > > > > > > Kobus de Wet > > > Cape Town, South Africa > > > GMT + 2.00 > > > http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ Congratulations!! Wish mine was flying again. 105 deg. here temps have made working time for resins almost impossable to work with. The gathering is looking more like a dream than reality now. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:34:35 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 ZS-WPX First flight Congrats from us down here in Fort Lauderdale FL. Good luck and will be joining you soon in the air Warronflys ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:20:02 EDT From: Genseric@aol.com Subject: KR: Real TV Any one watch Real TV tonight? It had a KR-2 That Crashed on take of for it's first flight. I was wondering if any one knows more about it? They said it was carosion in the fuel pump, but I was also wondering what else was going on. It looked like the plane stalled out just before it hit. Any thaughts out there? Ben Raby Minnesota ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:07:34 EDT From: SLIMPIDLIN@aol.com Subject: KR: Perry Anyone else out there having hard time finding a room in Perry? Procrastination always gets me in trouble. Garry (Slim) Wingard P.S. You Guys or Gals having trouble with threads in your alum. parts (spark plug holes) rather than weld on them ,drill the holes out with the drill provided in the thread kit,and install the steel threads.I am a Tool and Die maker ,and i use them all the time in plastic and other soft type materials . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:51:38 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Spark Plug threads SLIMPIDLIN@aol.com wrote: > P.S. You Guys or Gals having trouble with threads in your alum. parts (spark plug holes) rather than weld on them ,drill the holes out with the drill provided in the thread kit,and install the steel threads.>>>> I always had great luck with the insert type thread replacement. I could never get those darn heli-coils to work for crap! The steel inserts worked by drilling out (with provided drill bit) then re tapping (with provided tap) and then applying a good thread locker to the outside of the insert and then screwing it in (with provided tool). I never had one fail and some were installed on very HIGH COMPRESSION engines. The tap actually cut a nice grove at the top of the threads so the insert will sit flush once installed. They work pretty slick! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:28:17 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: RE: Spark Plug threads HeadHeads, I word on welding VW heads, not that I claim to be an expert. My local third party VW guru (who IS an expert) says if you weld a VW head without removing the valve seats first, you can expect the seats to fall out eventually. That makes it a three cylinder, or none, depending on the ensuing damage. It seems that welding eliminates the residual stresses that hold the seats in, and there they go. I don't know how you'd weld inside a hole like that anyway, but then I'm not much of a welder either... Personally, I'd rather blow a spark plug out than risk throwing a rod after the piston hits an open valve. I might add that in all my years of dealing with VWs, I only stripped one once, when I was about 14 and just getting started. The resulting helicoil lesson (and a torque wrench) made a sufficient impact on my ham-fists to ensure that it hasn't happened since. Of course if you're using used heads, you have no control over past history. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:33:50 -0500 From: "Terry Chizek" Subject: KR: Re: RE: Spark Plug threads - ---------- > From: Mark Langford > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: RE: Spark Plug threads > Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 3:28 PM > > HeadHeads, > > I word on welding VW heads, not that I claim to be an expert. My local > third party VW guru (who IS an expert) says if you weld a VW head without > removing the valve seats first, you can expect the seats to fall out > eventually. That makes it a three cylinder, or none, depending on the > ensuing damage. It seems that welding eliminates the residual stresses that > hold the seats in, and there they go. I don't know how you'd weld inside a > hole like that anyway, but then I'm not much of a welder either... > > Personally, I'd rather blow a spark plug out than risk throwing a rod after > the piston hits an open valve. I might add that in all my years of dealing > with VWs, I only stripped one once, when I was about 14 and just getting > started. The resulting helicoil lesson (and a torque wrench) made a > sufficient impact on my ham-fists to ensure that it hasn't happened since. > Of course if you're using used heads, you have no control over past history. It looks like im going to go with a new cylinder head had two cracks from the spark plug to the valve seat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:15:53 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Weights Hey guys, just food for thought here...........what are the tailwheel weights of the completed, or nearly completed KRs out there? The perfect combination would be with engine, less outer wing panels. A good stiff wind will lift the tail of 616TJ, so I've got a battery tied to the tailwheel. Dana "Just curious" Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:38:40 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: KR Gathering Requests Hey folks, It's only a couple of weeks away! I'm finally getting over my jet lag, and am wrapping up the final details with Don. Still too soon to get a hack on the weather, but so far so good. I've got a list of the comments that were made after last year's gathering, and have worked with Don to improve on a few things. But if there is something any of you think of over the next few days, send me an email and I'll see what we can do. It's never to late to implement a good idea. Speaking of good ideas, if you've got a handheld VHF radio or scanner, bring it with you. The only people talking should be the pilots airborne and the Air Boss (safety observer), but it never hurts to have a few extra ears monitoring the activity. Plus we should have some backup equipment if the Air Boss's radio fails. Thanks in advance! Anyone who volunteered to do a seminar, please contact me and confirm that you are still coming, and also coordinate with me for any supplies or equipment you may need for your presentation/demonstration. Don has assured me that we will have an overhead projector, so plan accordingly. That's it for now, should have more for y'all tomorrow. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com (314) 477-1756 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:08:01 EDT From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: KR Gathering Requests In a message dated 9/9/98 8:42:18 AM, you wrote: <> FYI... We've been suffering through a terribly hot summer in the Texas/Oklahoma area. Been in the 100's almost 60 days already (was 106 this past weekend). Forecast is for continued hot WX, but probably only in the upper 90's. Unless we see a dramatic change in the weather over the next week, you might want to bring some very light clothing along with a hat to keep you comfortable out on the ramp. Haven't had any measurable rain here in Dallas since late June, so you probably will be safe leaving your umbrella at home. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:10:43 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Weights KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Hey guys, just food for thought here...........what are the tailwheel weights of the completed, or nearly completed KRs out there? The perfect combination would be with engine, less outer wing panels. A good stiff wind will lift the tail of 616TJ, so I've got a battery tied to the tailwheel. > Dana, without the outer wings some KRs will fall on their noses. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:21:29 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Weights KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Hey guys, just food for thought here...........what are the tailwheel weights > of the completed, or nearly completed KRs out there? The perfect combination > would be with engine, less outer wing panels. A good stiff wind will lift the > tail of 616TJ, so I've got a battery tied to the tailwheel. > > Dana "Just curious" Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ Hi Dana, My finished KR2 had a tail wheel weight of 5 pounds. So you have to make sure you taxi with full back stick. Never weighed with the wings off, just felt that doing it without wings really does not give you that much information. One occasion I did make toothpicks from my prop because the wind lifted my tail due to my inattention, fortunately I built my own props. - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:17 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Weights In a message dated 98-09-09 11:46:35 EDT, you write: << Dana, without the outer wings some KRs will fall on their noses. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims >> Adrian, I haven't put my wingless bird on a tailwheel scale because I don't think a bathroom scale would weigh it and you're right it would be meaningless, I was just wondering (really somewhat amazed and bumfuzzeled) while in one of my "is that really supposed to do that" states of mind. Mike, you get my tailwheel an inch off the ground and it'll go over on it's nose in a heartbeat with no fuel in the header tank. I believe any fuel at all would take it on over. I've done the CG calculations and it is right where I want it to be so as to remain well forward (kind of a contradiction of terms with a KR) of the aft CG. This was accomplished by placing two inch spacers between the engine mount and accessory case with the VW 2180, otherwise known as......."the poodle". Five lbs. with wings and paint sounds about right. Just wondering if this is a case of ....... Good enough for KR. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:17:57 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Weights KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > Mike, you get my tailwheel an inch off the ground and it'll go over on it's nose in a heartbeat with no fuel in the header tank. I believe any fuel at all would take it on over. I've done the CG calculations and it is right where I want it to be so >>>>> Yep that's normal! Ask Haris about that one, he wanted to se how much weight was on the tail wheel of the KR2 in Janettes shop and decided to pick it up. I think he was a bit surprised how easily it wanted to rest its nose on the ground like a LongEZ! :o) The wings really bring the CG back considerably. When I leveled my SP290 without the wings and weighed it I was worried about where the CG fell but after adding the wings it started to look normal. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:36:49 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Weights KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > Adrian, I haven't put my wingless bird on a tailwheel scale because I don't think a bathroom scale would weigh it and you're right it would be meaningless, I was just wondering (really somewhat amazed and bumfuzzeled)>>> In the plans it says that when you weigh the airplane you may need to add weight (tare) to the tail to keep it from falling over when it is sitting level. I bolted my new motor mount on the other day and hung about 200 pounds off of it and even sitting level the tail stayed down! This was GOOD news to me. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:20:12 From: * Flesner * Subject: Re: KR:tail Weights A >In the plans it says that when you weigh the airplane you may need to >add weight (tare) to the tail to keep it from falling over when it is >sitting level. > >I bolted my new motor mount on the other day and hung about 200 pounds >off of it and even sitting level the tail stayed down! This was GOOD >news to me. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >> - -----------------------------------------snip------------------------------- - ---------------------------- You guys are probably compairing apples and oranges. You more than likely have totally different gear geometry and that will direcrtly affect your tail weight on the ground. It also is not necessarily and indication of your airborne C.G.. My KR is stretched 24 inches and has an 0-200 on a HAPI mount on 1 inch spacers. I also have about 5 to 10 pounds of tail weight without the outer wing panels installed but I have 30 inch Diehl gear that places my main wheel contact a few inches forward of the standard Diehl gear. Mike has a gear of his own design. See what I mean ? The real concern is where the flight C.G. falls unless your gear geometry is so out of wack that you can't handle the airplane on the ground. Make sure you are compairing similar KR's before you confirm you own speculations with other builders rumors. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:27:14 EDT From: WARRONFLYS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Weights Hi Dana friend of mine taxied around without wings we still haven't found the rest of his warp drive. tail is real light .Warron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:32:42 EDT From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: KR: KRKosh name tags - last call! KRKoshheads: KRNet is providing name tags and clip on holders so we can recognize each other at the event. We will include your: First name Last name Email address City & State on the cool KRNet name tag. If you have not emailed Brian Bland - bbland@gateway.net Then do so today, or we won't have a custom name tag for you to sport at KRKosh 98. Email Brian or myself by 9/13/98 so you can be included. We need: Fname Lname Address City, State Zip Phone number Email address KR Pilot y/n Don't delay. Now back to our regular programing. Randy Stein BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA PS - KRNet has some pretty neat door prizes lined up for the banquet! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:20:55 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR:tail Weights I think the concern here isn't so much the CG as it is with whether or not these guys will have to park in the -eze row at airshows with their chins on the ground. In general, I think most KR builders want to get the CG as far forward as possible without having the plane tip over when there's no pilot aboard. To compare more apples to grapefruit :o), I own the other set of long Diehl gear legs so my gear geometry is different from most. My plane had 5# on the tailwheel fully assembled in a level attitude before painting it. After painting, it had 12# on the tail in the same attitude. With my butt in the seat, it has lots of weight on the tailwheel. :o/ I never even considered firing the engine without the wings on as they do move the CG aft. Jeff Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:20:12 * Flesner * writes: >A >>In the plans it says that when you weigh the airplane you may need to >>add weight (tare) to the tail to keep it from falling over when it is >>sitting level. >> >>I bolted my new motor mount on the other day and hung about 200 >pounds >>off of it and even sitting level the tail stayed down! This was GOOD >>news to me. >> >>-- >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims >>> > >-----------------------------------------snip------------------------------- >---------------------------- > > >You guys are probably compairing apples and oranges. You more than >likely have totally different gear geometry and that will direcrtly >affect >your tail weight on the ground. It also is not necessarily and >indication of >your airborne C.G.. My KR is stretched 24 inches and has an 0-200 on >a HAPI mount on 1 inch spacers. I also have about 5 to 10 pounds of >tail weight without the outer wing panels installed but I have 30 inch > >Diehl gear that places my main wheel contact a few inches forward >of the standard Diehl gear. Mike has a gear of his own design. >See what I mean ? The real concern is where the flight C.G. falls >unless >your gear geometry is so out of wack that you can't handle the >airplane on the ground. Make sure you are compairing similar >KR's before you confirm you own speculations with other builders >rumors. > >Larry Flesner > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:34:55 EDT From: Afzoomer@aol.com Subject: KR: 2 cyl 4 strokes Hello all In all the discussion about engines I have not seen any of the 2cylinder 4strokes mentioned. Some of these put out alot of HP for their weight. Anybody have first or second hand info on these? The Christine c2400S claims 87hp@3500rpm for a mere 82 lbs and 1000hr tbo. Is this to be believed? Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:40:47 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR:tail Weights At 07:20 PM 9/9/98, you wrote: < Make sure you are compairing similar KR's before you confirm you own speculations with other builders rumors.>>> > >Larry Flesner > Even though my gear is different I made sure the axle location was in the same place as the standard Diehl gear. Your right about our real concern should be the flight CG (which has been computed) but you got to be able to taxi before you can fly! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:44:03 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: Wing spar depth and plywood type Today I saw 'the boat on sale' at RR and spent some time looking over it. One thing I noticed is that the center front spars were 2.5" deep. The plans specify both top and bottom center spars to be 2" deep. Then, I looked at the Wicks catalog and it lists spars as 2.5" deep. Has that dimension been changed? Second topic is kind of a dead horse. All rear spars and outer spars carry way less loads then center spars. So, I think, mahogany could safely be used every where except front center spars saving a couple of pounds of weight. Any thoughts? Haris ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #146 *****************************