From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 5:40 PM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #156 krnet-l-digest Wednesday, September 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 156 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:41:24 -0400 From: "R.W. Moore" Subject: KR: Re: Re: 1999 KR Gathering Is the price for the rooms per night? Thanks, R. W. Moore Missing Link Vacuum pump Drive System - -----Original Message----- From: R.W. Moore To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 3:18 AM Subject: KR: Re: 1999 KR Gathering >Where is Ky. Lake? I plan to come with my (new)TURBO (1835CC) KR1 with my >invention "MISSING LINK"(c) vacuum pump drive system for Volkswagen >airplane engine installed. I hope the lake is around Richmond, Ky that is >just across the mountain from me in Toccoa, Ga. >R. W. Moore >MPA Company >POB 622 >Toccoa, GA. 30577-1410 >706-779-3446 >fax 779-2302 >-----Original Message----- >From: KR2616TJ@aol.com >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 8:04 AM >Subject: KR: 1999 KR Gathering > > >>OK, gang you're the first to know!!!! >> >>The 1999 KR Gathering will be held at Lake Barkley State Park Sept. 24th & >>25th. 1-800-325-1708. This park is located across the lake from Kentucky >Dam >>State Park in far western KY and offers a more secluded runway, plus they >have >>rooms available. Offered at the park are: 4800 X 100 asphalt (as opposed >to >>the pilots fault) runway, 100 LL plus Jet A for those turbine KRs, lodge >rooms >>from $48.45 to $56.95, two bedroom cabins set in the woods surrrounding the >>lake for $127.50, golf, tennis, pool, boat rental, nature trails. I've >tried >>to make it so that your family might be interested in coming and enable >them >>to have something to do other than hang around the airport and swap lies >with >>us KR guys. >> >>I do not have the room contract in my hands yet but they are holding 88 >lodge >>rooms and 8 cabins for us. You will not be able to make reservations until >I >>return the signed contract, which they should be getting to me in about a >>week. Wait until I post the go ahead and them make your reservations as >soon >>as possible. These accomodations will be held for us only up to 60 days >prior >>to the gathering. The unused rooms and cabins will be offered back to the >>public at that time. Additional rooms are available in Cadiz, KY. >> >>My plan for this gathering, in addition to the pilots flying at their >>pleasure, is to offer the builder forums on all aspects of building with a >>forum on basic KR woodworking and progressing in construction order all the >>way to test flying. I plan on having these forums start on the hour from >two >>different booths with each one lasting 45 mins. and the next one already >set >>up and ready to go on the hour after the prior one has been completed. This >>will give you time to grab a coke, or whatever, in between forums. I'll >post >>a request for those interested in conducting a forum (they are fun to do >guys) >>to get involved. It would amaze you to see the interest, and appreciation, >by >>those who attend these. What we sometimes consider to be basic information >is >>a rocket science to others just starting, so get involved here guys, it's >>everyone's gathering. >> >>Some of you younger guys (under 42, I'll explain if you ask) plan on >coming. >>The same planes have been showing up for the last couple of >>gatherings...............show us what you have, bring what you got, even if >>you have to trailor it in........if it's not flyable :-)) (inside joke). >>There will be interest shown in what you have. >> >>I'll keep the list posted in addition to mailers to prior attendees and >>subscribers to the KR newsletter. >> >>Dana Overall >>RIchmond, KY >>mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:57:00 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Wing Repair I was looking at my latest ACS catalog. They have a composites practice kit, which they sell with or without a book "Composite Construction Techniques", The cost for the kit is about $46.00, and I would recommend it. Sorry, I'm on the road and didn't bring my Aircraft Spruce Catalog, but if you call them at their 800 number they can find it for you. You can alternatly order the book seperately, but I would recommend the kit since I think it includes gloves etc. I would recommend buying the "KR-cloth" from Aircraft Spruce and or Wicks, some 80grit/100grit sandpaper to start with, and if you don't have a dremel tool beg or borrow one to cut away. Since you have the damage Forward of the main spar (Assuming Standard Retract), I would recommend doing a repair of at least two plies of glass cut on the bias (45 deg per plans), and cover from the spar cap, to about 1-2" beyond the nose of the spar. Without seeing the damange, I am imagining a hole in the top of the wing about 6-12" from the end of the spar, and about 4" wide. I would overlap the repair at least 2", maybe 3" from the hole . When sanding the glass, you won't know what layers are on the top of the spar cap area, so be careful in this area to only remove the paint and primer, the glass aft of the main spar is attached here, and you might be sanding through this and weakining the area aft of the spar if you go too far. If you do have to cut down to the spar cap, then the repair needs to cover a larger area to bond the aft layup as well. I'm guessing 4-6" aft of the main spar if you sand down to wood. This is a complete guess here. While your at it (ordering from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks), here are some other items you may need for your repair. 2" foam. Epoxy Resin (I have been using Aeropoxy, but there are lots of good products avail). 2" Peelply tape (To tape the EDGES of your repair area). After you have cut away the damage and removed the paint from an area 4-5" around the area you are going to repair, Cut a piece of the Urethane foam to plug the hole with a butter knife, and glue it in place in the hole, leaving at least 1/2-1" sticking up to be sanded off. (I used a hot glue gun, but you can use 5 minute epoxy or some people use two part foam.) Then contour the foam in place using a 2x4 with an optional piece of sandpaper. You can use a buttter knife to do your initial contour, if you remove too much material, you will have to add another block of foam. I have found that you will need to feather the area beyond the repair considerably, so you might have to clear an area up to 12" beyond the repair, so you can feather in some micro-ballons in later so that there is no visable "Bump" around the repair area. Some other folks could comment about feathering a repair, as I had some trouble with this patching some hangar rash on my project. Here is a tip for the glassing phase. You can mark your two pieces of glass for cutting with a sharpee permanent marker, I like to mark them with "this end up" and 1,2 etc so each layer is numbered. Then I had a local RV builder give me a trick, mark the template out on a GARBAGE BAG. make the template about 4" larger than your final piece. Then cut it out you should now have two identical pieces of plastic templates (make one for each layer of glass you will apply). Lay the plastic on a flat surface and place the glass on top, cutting the fiberglass to size, so that it fits WITHIN the plastic by 1-2", this is why we made the template oversize. Before painting the glass with epoxy you have to "prepare the foam" by mixing a 50/50 mix of microballoons and resin, to get a mixture that looks like frosting to spread over the exposed foam, to seal it. Then paint pure epoxy onto the fiberglass and top it off with the otherside of your garbage bag. Use a large dowel,.a piece of PVC tubing, or god forbid, your wifes rolling pin (This could end your marriage). This way you work the epoxy into the glass, and NO MESS as the garbage bag is oversize, however any access may spill out. There is a risk that you can get a lean epoxy lay up by squeezing out too much epoxy, but the glass gets wet out well with this technique. NOW trim the garbage bag so that it is the exact size of the repair to be made, now you have a fiberglass "band-aid" that at is easy to work with, peel off one side of the garbage bag, and apply to the wound. The glass will be easy to move and work with, and when it's where you want it, remove the other piece of garbage bag. Then, repeat the process with the second lay-up. Use your peel-ply, as an additional "band-aid" around the PERIMETER of your repair, this will keep you from having a rough edge. The RISK of this procedure is that you might have a dry lay up, or epoxy lean lay-up as the rolling pin procedure will squeeze out excess. Having said all this, I recommend you get a second opinion, what I told you was based on my experience, and may not be the best solution to your problem. This is only one approach. - -- Regards Ross Sheetsg@aol.com wrote: > Mike: > > I live in Iowa. > > And yes the gear punched up through the wings. > > So you say this is a easy repair. And that sounds like I should repair the > wings. > > I'll give it a try. I had thought maybe I could just find some for sale or > something and save myself a lot of time. > > Thanks though for the advice. If you live near Iowa let me know. > > appreciate it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:05:09 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: [Fwd: KRNET Email test] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------56B8408749508D859A6B2E75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, I think a good question is what does the weight & balance look like. With most folks being concerned about AFG CG in flight, I'm thinking this ground problem might not be too bad, you just need some way to shift weight aft on the ground, perhaps moving the main gear forward an inch or so would to the trick. We had another thread on this topic recently... I don't know what the consensus was. As this will also impact ground handling. My KR is tail light with the wings on which I don't mind, however I haven't done weight and balance. Many Type1 KR's have 1" spacers up front, and I don't, so I would rather not have to add spacers if my weight and balance work out. - -- Ross - --------------56B8408749508D859A6B2E75 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mail1 for rossy (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Tue Sep 29 22:17:40 1998) X-From_: doug_peyton@hotmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:57:24 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: rossy@teleport.com Received: (qmail 21614 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1998 17:57:22 -0000 Received: from f122.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (207.82.251.1) by smtp4.teleport.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 1998 17:57:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 6886 invoked by uid 0); 28 Sep 1998 17:56:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19980928175649.6885.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.219.72.88 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:56:48 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.219.72.88] From: "doug peyton" To: rossy@teleport.com Subject: Re: KRNET Email test Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:56:48 PDT Ross, Thanks for the reply. I'm building a KR-2 and have installed a Type-4 engine. The airframe is all done, and without the wings, prop, starter motor, alternator, seat, and ignition system, it weighs 436 pounds. But it tips up on its nose. I built the airplane exactly as per the instructions, except for installing the Type-4 engine. Without the above-mentioned parts, the airplane will just balance if the tailwheel is on the ground - there is about 4 pounds weight at the tailwheel in the above configuration. The wings weigh 72 pounds , and that should pull the center of gravity back somewhat, but I don't think it will be enough. I see lots of pictures of KR-2's being built, and I don't ever see any with its nose resting on the ground. I think I need a nosewheel. I can move the seat back so that my weight will counter-balance the whole airplane, but as soon as I get out of the airplane, it will tend to tip on its nose. I know it seems kind of goofy to have both a nosewheel and a tailwheel, but I can't think of any other solution. Can you? >Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:08:14 -0700 >From: Ross Youngblood >To: SkipnDi96@aol.com, doug_peyton@hotmail.com, sblasko@aol.com >Subject: KRNET Email test > >Reply to this email test and I will add you to KRNET-L >-- Regards > Ross > >-- > Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 > Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 > Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 > Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------56B8408749508D859A6B2E75-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:09:26 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Re: 1999 KR Gathering WHERE? R.W. Moore wrote: > Where is Ky. Lake? I have added the link to the main page of htp://www.krnet.org under the Perryphoto, you should be able to get information from the State of Ky parks website listed there. (Thanks to Dana for the info). -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:16:57 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: N numbers Richard, You have to mail the FAA in Okhloma City, There is a form letter you send to them (In one ofTony Bengelis'books), then they send you the application. You might be able to get this from from your local FAA FSDO. Then you get a package back, with a reserved "N" number request form, and you will need ANOTHER letter NOTORIZED indicating you built your KR etc. It is an affidavit of ownership, this is required if you want to register your plane. It is still cheap to reserve your N number, about $10 or so. But the reservation is only good for a year, so I just went ahead and registered my KR three years ago, as once you register, your done paying fees. However in Oregon where I live, With all the there is an annual state registration fee, but this isn't due until the aircraft is flyable. You can check to see if the N number you want is already reserved online, check www.landings.com for the N number search. All the good ones were taken so I grabbed my area code and my initials. This entire process takes SEVERAL weeks, so its a good thing to do about 6 months before you want to start flying your project. Richard Parker wrote: > Any one know if you can reserve an "N" number online? if not does > anyone know who I contact to reserve one. > > Please e-mail me off-Net > > Richard E. Parker > Jaffrey, NH > theparkers@monad.net > richontheroad@hotmail.com > http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/ > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:27:12 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: speaking of exhausts... Peter, I have a Great Plains 4 into 1 exhaust. I did have some concerns about clearance of the exhaust tube and one of the intake down runners, so I had a hangar neighbor and borrowed another hangar neighbor's torch, and with two torches we moved the pipes down about 1/4-1/2". Otherwise, I am happy with my 4-1 exhaust that I purchased from Great Plains. I think I paid around $289. If I had a torch outfit, and wanted to mess around, I might play with a dune buggy exhaust and cut it up, but I have found that sometimes, it is cheaper to spend the money on somthing that others have been using and works. -- Regards Ross Peter Hudson wrote: > Hi Gang, > > Yes, Speaking of exhausts (ceramic coatings and such). I just hung my > revmaster on the firewall. The exhaust I had, came from a dragonfly. I > also have the Rand-Revmaster cowl. I found I had to take off the > exhaust to get the cowl on. No big deal really as it was old and > rusty. The thing is I need a new exhaust which will work. > > Options: > 1) hack up the old one and or any old VW manifold and sloppily weld up > a shape that works. then have someone make one in stainless. > 2) get some new flanges and tubes and tack together one (I don't know if > I'd trust my own welding for an exhaust). Have it welded, paint it and > be done. > 3) same as 2) but with a ceramic coat for longevity and heat management. > > any suggestions? Any comments on relative price? > > Also I cant find my book on exhaust design but if it fits I'd like to > try tuning the exhaust. Probably a 4 into 2 into 1. If nothing else I'd > like not to have incorrect lengths hurting my performance. I think I'd > like a muffler or at least the option. I guess while I'm at it I'd like > 20 free horsepower, 5 lbs total weight and lots of extra room in the > cowl ;) Any tips on the design? > > This might be a better question for the VW list. Does anyone know the > subscribe procedure for that one? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:36:18 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Ceramic Coatings of Exhaust/Exhaust Valves? Iposted earlier that I have sent my 4->1 exhaust to have it Ceramic Coated. It is going to Therma Dyne in White City OR (Near Medford, OR) You can find them on the web via the yellow pages. In my search to see if paying $175 was a good buy, I found some more links on ceramic coatings today that you might be interested in. The claims are that you get 1-3% horsepower improvement with the coatings (or exhaust tape), the advantage of the coatings is that they have a lifetime warrenty, and protect the metal from the high temp corrosive exhaust gases. (I learned all this today...Gee aint the internet terrific?) It looks like the ceramic coating technology is still reasonably new, but many exhaust header companies are starting to OEM the processes. I am looking at the reduction in engine compartment heat as one way to increase engine reliability for my VW install. Here are the links: http://www.performancecoatings.com/headers.htm http://www.wizvax.net/humphrey/alumcoat.html http://www.aadam.com http://www.powdercoater.com http://www.hpcoatings.com http://www.coatem.com http://www.finishline.com http://www.serm.org/semanews/april97/sell497.html http://www.protech.usa.com http://www.mettech.com From the hype, I think you may wish to be careful who you buy from, and I can't endorse my supplier as I don't know if they are good or not. Some of the talk of ceramic coating pistons sounds like an interesting way to increase the reliability of an engine for aircraft use. I am not looking to increase HP, just MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure), One option would be to purchase ceramic coated exhaust valves, but this is a critical component and I am looking for more information. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:48:37 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: a new member/flight controls Stef, Your English is better than my Dutch. Thanks for the post. I think there are a couple of people on KR-NET that might be able to answer your force questions. I don't understand you fuel question, are you asking what the fuel consumption rate is? The rate will depend on your engine, but I am estimating about 4gallons per hour with a VW engine. I don't have the conversion rate to liters memorized, and don't have my calculator handy. Perhaps some of the KR flyers can report in fuel consumption rates, and we can make a table for posting on the web. >From your email you were asking what the maximum flight loads on the ailerons and elevator at an airspeed of 200mph. I haven't seen this figure posted to KRNET but am wondering if one of the KRNETTERS might have this. Anyone? I will try to see if anyone at the KR Gathering this year has an idea. - -- Thanks again for the post! Ross Stefan den Boer wrote: > Hallo > My name is Stef den Boer and i am happy to be now on the kr net. I am from > the Netherlands(europe) > and bilding already for 10 years together with my father on the kr . I know > my writing is realy bad, the reason is that this is my first letter in > another langeust. I hope that everybody is now smiling to me/. > > Oke about the kr were are we. We have assembled the body, the wings, the > tail section, canopy,turtel deck > and at this moment i am working on the fuel tanks.Making them in the > leadingeds from alu. It is a lot off work but i think that this is the best > place for your weight and ballance.To work with aluminium is also my yob > because i am a sheetmetal worker at an airliner(martinair).Are there > already guys who have expereens with the fuel consumption And with how many > fuel are the real cracks in the air. > > I have also a modification in the flight controls, the system is checked by > Martinaire enginering and they have a question about the KR (I am already > waiting for one year to get it approved for the Netherlands FAA) > I need to now what is the maximum force that is coming on the ailerons and > horizontal stabelizer. > I mean the force that is coming on the leavers at the point were the cabel > is conected to the hor stabalizer and ailerons.at the max speed off 200 > miles > I know it is a smal ting that i need to know, but nobody in the netherlands > can help me. And i am a little desperid because i already made a lot off > stuf for the system.Pleaseeeeeeee can somebody help me, if it is not, i > have to put the old original system in and that is a shame because it is a > lot of work that i have done already. > I hope to get soon same information from one off you..... > > The realy bad writing Dutch gay...........Stef > boer.reinders@hetnet.nl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:14:31 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR: Multiple Posts Teleport has installed new mail server software system wide. I am asking other Majordomo list owners at teleport if they are also seeing duplicate messages. I will let you know what I find. This could still be a Teleport problem impacting posts coming from AOL accounts. - -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:55:21 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: progress (long) Well sports fans here is the latest from the Chino KR factory. As you know I started on my gear leg farings on Sunday and went by the hanger tonight to trim them up and apply some filler. They look great! Or at least they will once sanded and painted. My gear leg fairings needed to be about 4 inches wide to enclose the sissor link and strut so this meant they needed to be almost 16 inches long to be aerodynamically correct. A couple of guys were giving me crap on Sunday saying my airplane will look like it has bell bottom pants on, all I could say was "groovy man". So when you see my KR fly over head you will know its me by the bell bottom pants and the really big shoes (35 inch wheel pants). :o) The wing tip nav light mounts are done and look pretty darn spiffy too. They arent as aerodynamic as they could be but if I am gona put lights on this pig they are gona be legal! I started putting my magnetos back together last night and they are working just fine. Kinda neat how you can get that spark just be flipping the little shaft over! ZAP! OUCH! :o) I will try to flip my plane back onto its wheels on Saturday assuming I can find some help. I hope this is the last time because its getting to darn heavy to flip over now! You guys who are building,.. stick with it because at some point this begins to be a whole lot of fun. If you are having motivation problems watch those videos or try to get out and see some KRs in your area, even if you have to drive 2 or 3 hours. If you are facing financial problems do what I did. Make a list of what needs to be done and how much it would cost to do those things. On weeks that you are a little short on cash pick something cheep to do and do it! Remember it all has to get done before it flys so do what you can, but just keep building! I am looking at a target date of three years from start to start (start flying). That is about one year longer than I thought but I didn't take into consideration that epoxy and micro doesn't cure to well in the winter (even in California) and then of course the summer months are for the family. What the heck I am gona blame El Nino for that extra year! If one were to use the pre molded parts I think building one in 2 years would be a piece of cake. OK time to stop rambling and go to bed. I sure hope this one doesn't get the double post syndrome! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:31:27 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: N numbers At 11:16 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >However in Oregon where I live, With all the there is an annual state >registration fee, but this isn't due until the aircraft is flyable. > Be careful registering your homebuilt too soon. Some states will use this to charge you property tax regardless if its flying or not. This is a big issue in California. The guy in the next hanger over from mine bought two completely dis assembled L5 war birds about 2 or 3 years ago and has been restoring them ever since. When he filled out his paper work to lease a hanger (they ask how many and what kind of planes you have) from San Bernidino County guess what happened? The tax man sent him a bill for $6000 on each bird! After a lot of court dates he finally got out of the tax bill but what a pain in the butt! When I leased my hanger I stated I only had airplane parts,.. so far no tax man. Just keep in mind some of the more anal states go out of their way to try and tax the crap out of you and if you register it they will come! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:58:35 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: N numbers Mike Mims wrote: >Be careful registering your homebuilt too soon. Some states will use this >to charge you property tax regardless if its flying or not. That's exactly what happened to me. I registered mine as N56ML (year I was born, initials, figuring it'd be easy to remember) and it wasn't a month before the state tax folks had sent me a form to declare my airplane's value so they could tax the crap out of me. I'd have thought as slow as we are in Alabama, they'd have never thought of that! I called and politely explained that I was only building a plane, and he said "fine, send me a copy of all the receipts for everything you've ever bought for it from out of state, and I'll tax you for that". "And by the way, send me another copy of the receipts for everything else you buy in the future, oh, every month or so...". Other folks have been surprised to get the BIG one when registering right before first flight. Our EAA president (respected homicide investigator on the Huntsville Police Dept) got a very threatening letter from the tax folks, threatening leans and everything else if he didn't pay up immediately for the "luxury" of flying a MiniMax. He was assessed a "sales tax" based on it's market value, whatever that is. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:49:05 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: N numbers Mark Langford wrote: > Other folks have been surprised to get the BIG one when registering right > before first flight. Our EAA president (respected homicide investigator on > the Huntsville Police Dept) got a very threatening letter from the tax > folks, threatening leans and everything else if he didn't pay up immediately > for the "luxury" of flying a MiniMax. He was assessed a "sales tax" based > on it's market value, whatever that is. Virginia does the same thing. To compensate for that, I have been adding the out-of-state airplane purchases to my state tax return every year. It doesn't make the problem go away, but when I finally register, I won't be hit with one large bill, it will have already been paid and I will be able to prove it with the tax forms. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:55:15 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR: Dumb FAA Story This is a non-KR, but it is FAA related. On the front page of today's (9-30-98) Richmond newspaper is a story that the Richmond International Airport will no longer be able to sell a 3" (8 cm) long model of a civil war era cannon. The local FAA says that "the toy cannon could be construed to ba a miniature weapon". Airport security says "they could not be processed through security without authorization from someone". Our FAA at work. - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:02:13 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: N numbers If you find out, please let us know. Gordon Richard Parker wrote: > Any one know if you can reserve an "N" number online? if not does > anyone know who I contact to reserve one. > > Please e-mail me off-Net > > Richard E. Parker > Jaffrey, NH > theparkers@monad.net > richontheroad@hotmail.com > http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/ > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:19:20 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: KR: [Fwd: File - Welcome File] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------1F9A65445274DEA77E1FEE7F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How to subscribe to VW List. Gordon - --------------1F9A65445274DEA77E1FEE7F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: surfree.com%snakeskin@surfree.com Received: (cpmta 21805 invoked from network); 22 Sep 1998 18:05:10 -0700 Received: from unknown (198.199.168.92) by smtp.surfree.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 1998 18:05:10 -0700 X-Received: 23 Sep 1998 01:05:10 GMT Received: by toast.ml.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:04:37 +0600 From: "ListServer" To: snakeskin@surfree.com X-Auto-Responder-Version: SLMail(2.6) Subject: File - Welcome File Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:04:37 +0600 Message-Id: <19980922210437.15a7a407.in@toast.ml.org> Welcome to this mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. This mailing list is for the discussion of auto and motorcycle engine conversions for experimentals and ultralights. To subscribe send the text: subscribe vw to listserver@toast.ml.org . To unsubscribe send the text: unsubscribe vw to listserver@toast.ml.org . For the entire command set, send the text: help to listserver@toast.ml.org . To speak with a human send your message to vw-owner@toast.ml.org . To post to the list send your message to vw@toast.ml.org . Archives are available at www.toast.ml.org . Please people, don't send attachments to this list (or any other list without explicit permission). It is considered one of the most common newbee mistakes on the internet. There are many people subscribed here who have to pay for the time it takes them to download long messages, and others who's mail systems barf (usually on me) on long messages. The proper thing to do is to offer to email directly said attachment on request or to post it somewhere for download via WWW or FTP. Remember that it is O.K. if someone disagrees with you, and O.K. if you disagree with them. Don't take it personally! Flames reflect more on the character of the flamer than the flamee... - --------------1F9A65445274DEA77E1FEE7F-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:58:27 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: N numbers Don't tell me I have that to look forward to. When we bought our sailboat back in 87 I had already heard that the Tax people were slow in Calif on new boats, so I sent a letter telling them I bought it and to please hurry up and send me a bill so I would not get behind. They never did do it tell two years later when they sent me a bill and a nasty letter about the Late Fee telling me if I did not pay up they would take my boat. Well let me tell ya, I sold my house to buy that boat for over 100K and I was ready to sail off into the blue to keep them dirty *&( people from taking it. I did get caught up and even had to pay the fines because they were derlict in their duties. Sounds like time for a Boston Airplane party. Now I'm retired and my retirement is less than some kids get on Welfare so I don't pay much in taxes anymore. OH, The boat was sold in late 89 as we realized when we retire we could not afford it, Boat payments, slip rent, taxes, FOOD. So why am I looking at a KR-2 I think I can afford to keep one. Gordon Mark Langford wrote: > Mike Mims wrote: > > >Be careful registering your homebuilt too soon. Some states will use this > >to charge you property tax regardless if its flying or not. > > That's exactly what happened to me. I registered mine as N56ML (year I was > born, initials, figuring it'd be easy to remember) and it wasn't a month > before the state tax folks had sent me a form to declare my airplane's value > so they could tax the crap out of me. I'd have thought as slow as we are in > Alabama, they'd have never thought of that! I called and politely explained > that I was only building a plane, and he said "fine, send me a copy of all > the receipts for everything you've ever bought for it from out of state, and > I'll tax you for that". "And by the way, send me another copy of the > receipts for everything else you buy in the future, oh, every month or > so...". > > Other folks have been surprised to get the BIG one when registering right > before first flight. Our EAA president (respected homicide investigator on > the Huntsville Police Dept) got a very threatening letter from the tax > folks, threatening leans and everything else if he didn't pay up immediately > for the "luxury" of flying a MiniMax. He was assessed a "sales tax" based > on it's market value, whatever that is. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:32:22 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: non-KR: Dumb FAA Story >This is a non-KR, but it is FAA related. > >On the front page of today's (9-30-98) Richmond newspaper is a story >that the Richmond International Airport will no longer be able to sell a >3" (8 cm) long model of a civil war era cannon. The local FAA says that >"the toy cannon could be construed to be a miniature weapon". Airport >security says "they could not be processed through security without >authorization from someone". > >Our FAA at work. > >-- >Don Reid Unbelievable how stupid people are getting in our country, and the minutiae that concerns them. How many more little "freedoms" are we willing to give up as a society as time goes on? (How much more property tax stupidity? :) It all adds up to one big loss of freedom in the big picture. "Take me to Perry, or my little cannon barrel will make you think I have a gun, Vern." Sorry for the rant, this irks me. I guess the media frenzy about the small "pen" guns is at the root of this FAAness, but maybe, just maybe, somebody at security could request a test fire of the little cannon? :) Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:21:56 -0400 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: N numbers I have the same similar problem here in Flat lawdy dale fla. got my #'s got my tax bill form from stae still arguing about that as plane isn't fully finished , but tax man working with me until i'm ready to fly the "mistress"(call it that cause i'm with her almost mroe than my wife). find out about the laws where you are and head them off at the pass.Warron - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 2:59 AM Subject: Re: KR: N numbers >At 11:16 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > >However in Oregon where I live, With all the there is an annual state >>registration fee, but this isn't due until the aircraft is flyable. >> > >Be careful registering your homebuilt too soon. Some states will use this >to charge you property tax regardless if its flying or not. This is a big >issue in California. The guy in the next hanger over from mine bought two >completely dis assembled L5 war birds about 2 or 3 years ago and has been >restoring them ever since. When he filled out his paper work to lease a >hanger (they ask how many and what kind of planes you have) from San >Bernidino County guess what happened? The tax man sent him a bill for $6000 >on each bird! After a lot of court dates he finally got out of the tax bill >but what a pain in the butt! When I leased my hanger I stated I only had >airplane parts,.. so far no tax man. Just keep in mind some of the more >anal states go out of their way to try and tax the crap out of you and if >you register it they will come! :o) >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:44:55 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: N numbers What the heck is going on here, I am getting 4 of each message, it is eating up my Bandwith. Gordon WARRON GRAY wrote: > I have the same similar problem here in Flat lawdy dale fla. got my #'s got > my tax bill form from stae still arguing about that as plane isn't fully > finished , but tax man working with me until i'm ready to fly the > "mistress"(call it that cause i'm with her almost mroe than my wife). find > out about the laws where you are and head them off at the pass.Warron > -----Original Message----- > From: Micheal Mims > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 2:59 AM > Subject: Re: KR: N numbers > > >At 11:16 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >However in Oregon where I live, With all the there is an annual state > >>registration fee, but this isn't due until the aircraft is flyable. > >> > > > >Be careful registering your homebuilt too soon. Some states will use this > >to charge you property tax regardless if its flying or not. This is a big > >issue in California. The guy in the next hanger over from mine bought two > >completely dis assembled L5 war birds about 2 or 3 years ago and has been > >restoring them ever since. When he filled out his paper work to lease a > >hanger (they ask how many and what kind of planes you have) from San > >Bernidino County guess what happened? The tax man sent him a bill for > $6000 > >on each bird! After a lot of court dates he finally got out of the tax > bill > >but what a pain in the butt! When I leased my hanger I stated I only had > >airplane parts,.. so far no tax man. Just keep in mind some of the more > >anal states go out of their way to try and tax the crap out of you and if > >you register it they will come! :o) > >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > >Micheal Mims > >SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > >Irvine Ca > >Fax 949.856.9417 > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #156 *****************************