From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 12:37 PM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #160 krnet-l-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 160 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:46:37 -0700 From: "Joa" Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I just went out to the garage and measured the gorgeous CVG Hemlock I picked up today at the local lumber yard (had to search through a couple yards and about 100 pieces to find 3 nice ones). Found 20 rings per inch if you count the light rings (it varied from around 15-25). If my memory serves me correctly (I don't have 43-13 handy) but I think the minimum is only 6 per inch for Western Hemlock. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place, what edition and page are you referencing? Joa Hand Select Advocate > the problem with modern wood is that the foresters are growing super >high yield trees with 3-4 times the annual growth of an old growth >tree.these trees have wide annual rings, some as much as 1/4-3/8" per >year.this wood has only about 2/3-1/2 the strength of old growth. the >ac43-13 standards call for >16 annual rings/inch. i think what you will find >in lumber yards nowdays is high yield trees. i would stick with one of the >major suppliers. i found western aircraft supplies to be very good. > george ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:28:57 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Sanford VW conversion In a message dated 98-10-09 16:24:15 EDT, you write: << It is touted as being 1834CC and 70HP. Any info would be appreciated. >> Never heard of a Sanford conversion but be a little leary of the 70HP quote. An 1835 is going to max out at about 65 with a continuous HP of around 60. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:31:47 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: CIS and CIS-E sources Thanks Mark, Good info. I appreciate it. The T-4 arrived late last night. Looks real good . Plugs in the heads for all openings. I got a flyweel and lower tin as well. Pretty sure I got my $100 worth. I'm gonna fill the cylinders with oil and wrap it in plastic and sit it in the corner on a pallet until I can get time to work on it. At 09:44 PM 10/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >I ran across a little info on what years of VW use what type of fuel >injection. The lighter CIS-E air flow sensor is tempting, despite the >complexity (but obvious advantage) of being able to regulate fuel pressure >(mixture) from the cockpit. > >CIS: Rabbit 77-84, 8VScirocco 77-88, Jetta 80-84, Convertible 80-89, Pick >UP 80-83. >CIS-E fuel system: Golf GTI 85-87, Jetta GLI 85-87, 16V Scirocco 87 >CIS-lambda fuel system8 valve: Golf 85-87, Jetta 85-87 > >Mark Langford >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 07:09:50 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Is their another name for Hemlock? I just don't remember my local two stores having signs selling hemlock. I'll look again though. Where can I get just the KR-2S rib plan for a rib to maybe practice on? Without buying a complete set of plans right now. As my big building shop is not even done but I have a little 10'x14' where I keep my saws out of the cold. Gordon Joa wrote: > I just went out to the garage and measured the gorgeous CVG Hemlock I picked > up today at the local lumber yard (had to search through a couple yards and > about 100 pieces to find 3 nice ones). Found 20 rings per inch if you count > the light rings (it varied from around 15-25). If my memory serves me > correctly (I don't have 43-13 handy) but I think the minimum is only 6 per > inch for Western Hemlock. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place, what > edition and page are you referencing? > > Joa > Hand Select Advocate > > > the problem with modern wood is that the foresters are growing > super > >high yield trees with 3-4 times the annual growth of an old growth > >tree.these trees have wide annual rings, some as much as 1/4-3/8" per > >year.this wood has only about 2/3-1/2 the strength of old growth. the > >ac43-13 standards call for >16 annual rings/inch. i think what you will > find > >in lumber yards nowdays is high yield trees. i would stick with one of the > >major suppliers. i found western aircraft supplies to be very good. > > george ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:17:56 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 07:09 AM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Where can I get just the KR-2S rib plan for a rib to maybe practice on? Without buying a complete set of plans right now. As my big building shop is not even done but I have a little 10'x14' where I keep my saws out of the cold.>>> Gordon, without violating any plan agreement another way to get a rib plan is to have one of the CAD guys here on the KRNet draw you up a RAF airfoil. I am sure one of them will send you an email off net if they are interested (hint hint). If I had the plots I could print them out for you at work but I didn't bother messing with the RAF airfoil. Now the 230xx series is another story! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:29:51 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Still on the fence? For those of you still on the fence I offer another option to the KR. Go to: http://a51.wetworks.org/mims/mike.html and check out the Sirocco, there are three of these at my airport and the guys really like them. You will need a little more HP (140) than the VW can put out but this is just a little more airplane than the KR! :o) It has retractable gear and is fully aerobatic. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:50:59 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce That would work with the instructions to build a rib kind of like the KR rib. Practice makes perfect. Someone offered me a set of unused plans they had extra for a good price but being kind of poor this time of the year all I could do was offer to trade a Harley Davidson Buck Commemorative knife in a Walnut display case that cost me 325.00 9 years ago but I think I embarrased him with the puckie offer and have not heard a word sinse. He had KR-2S plans. Gordon BRAT MOtor standing by. VW Motor standing by. Micheal Mims wrote: > At 07:09 AM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Where can I get just the KR-2S rib plan for a rib to maybe practice on? > Without buying a complete set of plans right now. As my big building shop is > not even done but I have a little 10'x14' where I keep my saws out of the > cold.>>> > > Gordon, without violating any plan agreement another way to get a rib plan > is to have one of the CAD guys here on the KRNet draw you up a RAF airfoil. > I am sure one of them will send you an email off net if they are interested > (hint hint). If I had the plots I could print them out for you at work but > I didn't bother messing with the RAF airfoil. Now the 230xx series is > another story! :o) > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:50:19 -0400 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce At 09:50 AM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >That would work with the instructions to build a rib kind of like the KR rib. >Practice makes perfect. > >Someone offered me a set of unused plans they had extra for a good price but How much does the guy want for the KR2S plans? If the price is right, I could buy them and you could mail them to me, after you had looked them over to be sure that they were all there, of course. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:34:16 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: Cowling we sell a 12" spinner that has a reverse backplate of about 2" behind the hub. steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:05:59 EDT From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce I am interested in a copy of them plans too. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:50:56 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------13E9D96DE8126D1B2378BA4C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Micheal Mims wrote: > > JKM001@aol.com wrote: > > > > Laminte the spars with what???? > > Uhh,.....glue, yeah thats it,...glue! > > T-88, West Systems, Elmers, well maybe not Elmers but you get the idea. > Almost all KR spars are laminated these days because of the lack of > spruce large enough to make one piece spar caps. Don't > hesitate,..laminate! > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,.. Putting the engine back together again! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hi Gang, Interesting Mike! You should never have to laminate your caps. HEMLOCK is slightly stronger than spruce but about 10% heavier, it is a good wood for aircraft use if it is clear. Western Aircraft Supply can supply either hemlock for $250.00US, or spruce, 12 pieces. Both are full cut without any need of lamination and tapered. He can supply longeron material in either 12 or 14 foot lengths. First class materials. With the present monetary exchange rate you guys are laughing all the way to the bank! He ships all of his freight via Delta Airlines. How does Calgary to Florida for $80.00 bucks sound? Jean Peters Western Aircraft Supplies 623 Makkerville Rd. N.E,. 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You should never have to laminate your caps. >>> Somebody better share that info with Wicks, AS&S, and Rand Robinson! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:59:54 -0400 From: "Tim Stone" Subject: KR: Hemlock vs Hemlock Hi All Does anyone know if there's a difference between Eastern Hemlock and Western Hemlock. I've got some tall 60+ yr old in dense growth stand here on the farm.(Upstate NY) Would be nice if it were usable. Tim S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:36:57 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: KR: Sight Gauge This is of miniscual importance with the interesting thread floating around on hemlock, but...........................what kind of elbow is is everyone using to thru the instrument panel for a sight gauge? Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:54:55 -0500 From: "ronald.freiberger" Subject: KR: RE: Hemlock vs Hemlock > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com > [mailto:owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com]On Behalf Of Tim Stone > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 1998 6:00 AM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Hemlock vs Hemlock > > > Hi All > Does anyone know if there's a difference between Eastern Hemlock > and Western > Hemlock. I've got some tall 60+ yr old in dense growth stand here on the > farm.(Upstate NY) Would be nice if it were usable. > Tim S. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:55:55 -0600 From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: KR: Hemlock vs Spruce Micheal Mims wrote: > > At 08:50 PM 10/10/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi Gang, > >Interesting Mike! You should never have to laminate your caps. >>> > > Somebody better share that info with Wicks, AS&S, and Rand Robinson! :o) > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! > mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Irvine Ca > Fax 949.856.9417 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hell no! Now everyone knows how to resolve this requirement. - -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:46:15 EDT From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: KR: Elevator trim tab travel Hi gang, I'm trying to get a good idea of how much travel I need on my trim tab, and in which direction. I've heard folks say that they can't get enough nose-up trim initially, so I've biased the travel in that direction. How much nose down trim travel is required? Ideally I'll have the horizontal stabilizer positioned so that the trim tab is neutral at cruise airspeed, but I doubt that I'll get it perfect. My question is, how much displacement at the trailing edge of the trim tab do most people see for landing trim and cruise trim? Thanks for your help! I'm on the digest now, so if you could send me a cc: copy of any response, I'd appreciate it. Finally got some pictures taken of my project, hope to have them posted soon. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:12:29 +0200 From: "Allan Seini" Subject: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -Reply I am new to the KRNET. I own a 99.9% completed KR-2 which I bought. The = e-mail just came through on the Elevator trim which is what I would also = like to know about. The KR-2 I own has the elevator trim tab connected to = a cable . However the cable has broken during testing. What sort of = cable/wire should I use.? I have been told that you can do away wuth the cable and use a servo = system, using motors from remote control cars/planes to operate the trim = tab. Has anyone fitted such a sytem ? Allan Seini Melkbosstrand South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:33:45 EDT From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -Reply In a message dated 98-10-11 15:13:04 EDT, you write: << I have been told that you can do away wuth the cable and use a servo system, using motors from remote control cars/planes to operate the trim tab. Has anyone fitted such a sytem ? Allan Seini >> Allan, Troy Pettaway has come with a neat arrangement using a standard size remote control servo. Hey Mark Langford, got any pictures of this? Allan, you can also do what I have done and ordered a MAC servo system. I cut out an area on the bottom side of my elevator and installed mine on an alum. angle bracket which I then attached to the spar. The MAC servo is a little pricey but fits in the elevator as if it were made for it. It is slick and comes with a switch and indicator for your panel. This thread went around a couple of months ago and the general feeling is a servo system is the way to go. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:52:27 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: RE: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) Dana wrote: > Allan, Troy Pettaway has come with a neat arrangement using a > standard size > remote control servo. Hey Mark Langford, got any pictures of > this? Check out http://a51.wetworks.org/langford/petteway/petteway.html , the fifth picture down for a photo. He's removed the gear housing and electronics and is going direct somehow. He's still working out the details, and has an electrical whiz buddy doing a simple controller switch for him. More details when he gets finished, but he's closing in on a servo solution. KR's are each very different in how much travel (and lack thereof) they have, due to the large variety of CG / static margins we have flying. It would be nice if somebody with a bone stock KR2 with CG limits and a proper weight and balance sheet could answer that question. Jim Hill recently flew his plane with an adjustable tail, and discovered that the trim tab remained flush with the elevatoar at cruise trim with the horizontal stabilizer cranked up to something like 1.5 degrees. His is a stock KR2, but with tri-gear and recently stretched 14" at the tail. Although the fact that his is a little different, that tells me that the 0 degrees called out in the plans probably isn't right for what we now call the KR2 - that is without the retracts, with an electrical system, maybe with wing tanks, heavy avionics, etc. Although the KR easily lends itself to modification, the problem is that no two fly aliike, and not all are safe either. Although I don't have a KR (YET), the thing I keep hearing is that they run out of nose up trim without a passenger. The bottom line may very well fly it and see... Mark Langford mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:06:09 -0700 From: Gordon Brimhall Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) Mark Langford wrote: > Dana wrote: > > > Allan, Troy Pettaway has come with a neat arrangement using a > > standard size > > remote control servo. Hey Mark Langford, got any pictures of > > this? > Am I reading this as a remote control servo the size we use on Model RC planes? I have some of them but then I ask How big of a Big Scale model can you fly without getting in trouble with FAA? At the airshow last week we say some really large radio control planes they were using. Like 30 ft long. I'm thinking about a 1/2 scale KR2 to fly off my property with the 409 ft runway I have room for. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:30:32 -0500 From: N4DD Subject: Re: KR: Sight Gauge KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > This is of miniscual importance with the interesting thread floating around on > hemlock, but...........................what kind of elbow is is everyone using > to thru the instrument panel for a sight gauge? > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ Dana I used a 90 deg. fuel fitting from the lawnmower section at Ace Hardware for my sight gage. Jean N4DD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:43:39 EDT From: Robert7721@aol.com Subject: KR: High Temp Epoxy During the gathering at Perry I saw a Quickie with fiberglass engine baffles. I asked the builder what type of epoxy he used for a high heat application like that and he said Adtec. This was something I was interested in to keep weight down by building high temp fiberglass parts for the engine compartment so I looked them up. Adtec (913) 789-7808 9015 W. 51st Street Merriam, KS 66203 In fact I work near there, so I went by and talked with there rep. and got the product literature. The specific product he showed me was called Thurmalox, a protective coating epoxy system. He had no idea his product was being used to make fiberglass engine baffles for an airplane, it didn't seem to bother him though. The product is a protective coating used in the industrial market, normally for pipe lining. It will withstand up to 1500 degrees F. He said he does sell it in quantities as small as 1 quart. Any thoughts on this, or has anyone done anything different to make high temp fiberglass parts? Rob Schmitt Lee's Summit, MO robert7721@aol.com boat stage ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:41:06 EDT From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) >Jim Hill recently flew >his plane with an adjustable tail, and discovered that the trim tab >remained >flush with the elevatoar at cruise trim with the horizontal >stabilizer >cranked up to something like 1.5 degrees. His is a stock KR2, but >with >tri-gear and recently stretched 14" at the tail. I'm interested in an adjustable tail system (a la Piper Cub), and I'd appreciate any more info on how this was done. However, I'm also wondering why a plane with an adjustable tail even NEEDS a trimtab. Mike Taglieri - ------------------------------------------------------- "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse - ------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:00:12 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) At 11:41 PM 10/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >I'm interested in an adjustable tail system (a la Piper Cub), and I'd >appreciate any more info on how this was done. However, I'm also >wondering why a plane with an adjustable tail even NEEDS a trimtab. > >Mike Taglieri The adjustable tail was only "ground adjustable" to get the incidence set for cruise, the trim tab is used for "in-flight" adjustment. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:04:24 -0700 From: Micheal Mims Subject: KR: Re:Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) You can do this or forget about the trim tab altogether. I installed a spring system like the one used on the LongEZ, Dragonfly, and many other homebuilts. I often hear negative comments on spring type systems but the Dragonfly has one of the nicest control feels of any homebuilt I have flown. Of course this system has not be proven on a KR yet but it wont be long! :o) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290,..Putting the engine back together now! mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:07:09 +0200 From: Christo Kriek Subject: KR: RE: Very interesting web site Goeie dag Kobus, ek ket darem goed gery sonder teenspoed. Was so teen = 12:00 by die huis in Trichardt. Weereens baie dankie vir die LS dokument, het al reeds begin lees baie = interesant. Sodra jou 40 ure afgewerk is laat weet asb. Hoe lyk dit met nog so paar foto's op jou web site. Geniet die dag - -----Original Message----- From: owner-krnet-l@lists.teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@lists.te= leport.com] On Behalf Of jfdewet@intekom.co.za Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 12:26 PM To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: KR: Very interesting web site http://www.aerolink.com/links.html Kobus de Wet Cape Town, South Africa GMT + 2.00 http://home.intekom.com/kobusdw/ = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:29:28 +0200 From: "Stefan den Boer" Subject: KR: Flaps Hy folks I am so far that i am starting with the flaps. Maybey there is somebody who is have some nice tips for me.Or a nice modification. I heard something about the flaps that the dont do there work as it soppost to be. I heard also the bad news that it is better ,not to install them because of the weight.(That is some news from england). I am building the kr-2 and have the drawings from 1987 The dutch guy Stef den boer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:39:34 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR: Re: Flaps >I heard something about the flaps that the dont do there work as it soppost >to be. I heard also the bad news that it is better ,not to install them >because of the weight.( Shortly after installing flaps on his KR2, Ken Rand was quoted in the Newsletter as saying "I didn't know how much I needed flaps until I had installed them." Having said that, they are still tiny, mainly because of the limited ground clearance that the retractable KR2s had. Any longer than 5" and they'd drag the ground! And there is a school of thought that slipping is the alternative. Unfortunately, slipping doesn't work when you're in ground effect a foot off the ground running out of runway fast. A belly board is probably a better bet, since drag is what youy really need, not extra lift. KRs take off much in a much shorter distance than they land. Personally, I'm moving my split flaps outboard to the outer wing, and running them from the aft spar back for a whopping 25% chord, 44" of span. I'll have huge flaps, lots of drag, and a very low landing speed. Ailerons will also be about 22% chord, and will occupy the outer 36" of the span. These modifications are limited to the certifiably insane, of course... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:12:45 PDT From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Heat shrink tubing Hello, Netters Dumb question here. Recommendation has been made for putting a piece of heat-shrink tubing on over the ends of cut control cables after installing the nicopress, so that there aren't frayed wires there to snag your fingers or other stuff. What is the preferred way to shrink the tubing? Will a hair dryer get it hot enough, or does it take a little torch? The thought of working a torch around in some of the confined spaces doesn't sound too cool (little pun there). Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:34:02 -0700 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) due to the large variety of CG / static margins we have flying. It > would be nice if somebody with a bone stock KR2 with CG limits and a proper > weight and balance sheet could answer that question. the thing I keep hearing is that they run out of nose > up trim without a passenger. Mark, My stock KR2 with a heavy engine, full fuel,(12 gal. in header tank), light pilot,(150lbs.) solo, no baggage, trim tab made as per plans. I can only trim plane nose up to 80 mph on final. Makes for a long landing every time. My solution was to add a fixed ground adjustable tab on the elevator. In hindsight, I would make my trim tab bigger. That is, short of any major adjustments like using a lighter engine, changing the incidence of the H.S., wing tanks, gaining 100lbs. over the holidays, etc. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:37:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: KR: Heat shrink tubing On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Hello, Netters > > Dumb question here. Recommendation has been made for putting a piece of > heat-shrink tubing on over the ends of cut control cables after > installing the nicopress, so that there aren't frayed wires there to > snag your fingers or other stuff. What is the preferred way to shrink > the tubing? Will a hair dryer get it hot enough, or does it take a > little torch? The thought of working a torch around in some of the > confined spaces doesn't sound too cool (little pun there). Go to your local hobby shop and buy a hot air gun that is designed for shrinking Monocote, the heat shrinkable mylar covering that is used on model airplanes, and use it to shring the tubing. Works great and is inexpensive. Steve Eberhart - ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:49:48 From: Troy johnson Subject: Re: KR: Heat shrink tubing Oscar, Hair dryer should be adequate, a heat gun for shrinking covering on model airplanes is ideal, they put out considerably more heat than a hair dryer....a torch would melt all your tubing almost instantly ! You could carefully use an open flame like a cigarette lighter but not a recommended method.... Troy At 07:12 AM 10/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >Hello, Netters > >Dumb question here. Recommendation has been made for putting a piece of >heat-shrink tubing on over the ends of cut control cables after >installing the nicopress, so that there aren't frayed wires there to >snag your fingers or other stuff. What is the preferred way to shrink >the tubing? Will a hair dryer get it hot enough, or does it take a >little torch? The thought of working a torch around in some of the >confined spaces doesn't sound too cool (little pun there). > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:56:38 -0400 From: "Tim Stone" Subject: Re: KR: Heat shrink tubing >Oscar, snip >You could carefully use an open flame like a cigarette lighter but not a recommended method.... > >Troy > Oscar A pencil type solder iron works fairly well. At work I lightly rub the side of the iron against the shrink tube until it snugs up. No open flame to contend with. Tim S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:18:30 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: Flaps (Anecdote) In a message dated 98-10-12 07:37:41 EDT, you write: << These modifications are limited to the certifiably insane, of course.. >> Actual response by a friend. "Are you going to convert this (pointing toward the spruce on top of my car) pile of wood in a plane and then fly it yourself. WHAT ARE YOU INSANE. Whats wrong with models". Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:20:09 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Heat shrink tubing I use a model airplane heat gun. It cost about $20 and is useful for other purposes around the shop. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:21:34 EDT From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) In a message dated 98-10-12 10:18:46 EDT, you write: << In hindsight, I would make my trim tab bigger >> WHat is the size of your trim tab. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:37:25 +0100 From: "R.H.Mole" Subject: RE: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) Tom, very helpful - with your 150lbs and full fuel no baggage do you know your cg position aft of the LE by any chance (as I guess you will know - please excuse if so - it would be cool if you could weigh in this configuration with the top fus longerons approx level).? How would you assess the stick forces in a 60deg bank turn (ie 2g)? Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Crawford [SMTP:tomc@afn.org] > Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 6:34 PM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: Re: KR: Elevator trim tab travel -(dead horse alert!) > > due to the large variety of CG / static margins we have flying. It > > would be nice if somebody with a bone stock KR2 with CG limits and a > proper > > weight and balance sheet could answer that question. > the thing I keep hearing is that they run out of nose > > up trim without a passenger. > > Mark, > > My stock KR2 with a heavy engine, full fuel,(12 gal. in header tank), > light pilot,(150lbs.) solo, no baggage, trim tab made as per plans. > I can only trim plane nose up to 80 mph on final. Makes for a long > landing every time. My solution was to add a fixed ground adjustable > tab > on the elevator. > In hindsight, I would make my trim tab bigger. That is, short of any > major adjustments like using a lighter engine, changing the incidence > of > the H.S., wing tanks, gaining 100lbs. over the holidays, etc. > > Tom Crawford > tomc@afn.org > Gainesville, FL > N262TC ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #160 *****************************