From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 5:55 PM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #174 krnet-l-digest Friday, November 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:54:08 EST From: AeroManx@aol.com Subject: KR: Jeff Scotts Observations I agree with Jeff about the PIOs. I had the opportunity to go head to head in an AT6 this summer against a guy with no stick time at all. I got my butt kicked 7 out of 8 times because I was trying to fly the airplane "according to convention" when his IP said "Bank and yank!" thats what he did He was able to break harder and faster because he did not have any expectations of what the airplane might or should do. Kids are much the same way. They dont have any preconcieved notions about performance so they will try something. it that doesnt work, they try something else. Granted the AT6 is a much more stable airplane than the KR but the learning principles are the same As far as pitch sensitivity goes, any airplane with a higher wingspan to fuselage lentrh ratio will have that problem. Its the nature of the short body. I will be interested to see what solutions people come up with. Afterall, isnt that why we call it experimental?? Steve Majercik, Ph,.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:02:58 EST From: Kr2dream@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: NACA vents You will find the details you want in Tony Bingelis' book "Sportplane Construction Techniques beginning on page 199. Bob Lasecki Chicago - Leaving to see my new grandson in England! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:13:58 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR: NACA vents I have scanned in a NACA vent from one of the Tony Bingilis books. It is about 500K in a JPG file. E-mail me directly if you want a copy. The coordinates are: x/L y/(w/2) 0 0 Trailing edge 0.1 0.004 0.2 0.034 0.3 0.234 0.4 0.386 0.5 0.534 0.6 0.612 0.7 0.688 0.8 0.764 0.9 0.842 1.0 0.917 leading edge The inlet has a 7 degree ramp.Kerry Miller wrote: > > Does anybody know of a source on the 'net where I can get the dimensions of > a NACA air vent? I know the proper dimensions are given as a ratio of each > other, but can't remember what they are or even where I saw it. > Thanks, > Kerry Miller > Proud FULL owner of 1/2 of a KR-2, and FINALLY working on it again! - -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:42:44 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) > > Steven Eberhart wrote: > > > What all of this is building up to is this. In the experienced hands > of >a KR master it is a neat little airplane. In the hands of a low time, > > > inexperienced pilot, it is an accident waiting to happen. I suspect > >that there are a lot of KRs sitting in garages, etc. that scared the > >hell out of their builders on the first flights.>>> > > > > > > Like you said its a great little airplane on the hands of someone who > > master's it but in SOME low time pilots hands it tends to bite! If your > > building one you should make it a priority to get a ride on one before > > you get too far along. To whom it may concern, I started building my KR2 at the same time I started taking lessons. At the time of my first flight, I had a total of around 50 hours flight time, all in various trainers. I got a little stick time with a local KR before my first flight. Took about 5 minutes to make the adjustments necessary to fly the thing. Bottom line- My first flight and all the rest have been under control, safe, and very enjoyable. I have flown it to Sun and Fun, Oshkosh, and many local fly ins. I now have 92 hours on the KR and about 150 hours total. (Still a low time pilot). I think the amount of pitch sensitivity is individual to each KR. My first ride was in Marty Robert's plane, and I too had a hard time controling it. On the other hand, the KR I got stick time in was a piece of cake. The people I have given rides to- pilots and non pilots, all have had no problems controlling the plane. Tom, Rich? I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:09:42 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Tom Crawford wrote: > I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some > kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) > Well after going through the "where is my CG and why are the wheels in the wrong place?" routine I can almost guarantee that the pitchy KRs have a serious aft CG problem. It would be fun to randomly weigh KRs to check the CG, I bet you would be surprised at what you find. To get my CG where it should be (for flying) I mounted a 240 pound engine 14 inches (center of mass) ahead of the firewall! This sets my plane up so that with me and 5 gallons (or so) of fuel in the tank I am right at the fwd limit. Needless to say with out me in the plane and full fuel it wants to park like a LongEZ. So without careful attention to weight (aft of the main spar) I don't see how a KR2 or a KR2S could be built with a 180lb VW up front on a standard RR engine mount and balance right. Even with the 2 inch aluminum spacers it would be marginal. Then again maybe my KR is a porker and weighs 150 pounds more (aft of the main spar) than it should. Although one of the KR2s at my airport weighs 740 pounds empty with a 1835vw on the original retracts. I guess only time will tell if my heavier engine and larger horizontal tail help out. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:30:00 -0500 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) I wonder if the exagurated angle of attack recomended for the stock KR wing is a contributating factor along with an aft CG to the pitch problems? WD At 08:09 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >Tom Crawford wrote: >> I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some >> kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) >> > >Well after going through the "where is my CG and why are the wheels in >the wrong place?" routine I can almost guarantee that the pitchy KRs >have a serious aft CG problem. It would be fun to randomly weigh KRs to >check the CG, I bet you would be surprised at what you find. > >To get my CG where it should be (for flying) I mounted a 240 pound >engine 14 inches (center of mass) ahead of the firewall! This sets my >plane up so that with me and 5 gallons (or so) of fuel in the tank I am >right at the fwd limit. Needless to say with out me in the plane and >full fuel it wants to park like a LongEZ. > >So without careful attention to weight (aft of the main spar) I don't >see how a KR2 or a KR2S could be built with a 180lb VW up front on a >standard RR engine mount and balance right. Even with the 2 inch >aluminum spacers it would be marginal. Then again maybe my KR is a >porker and weighs 150 pounds more (aft of the main spar) than it >should. Although one of the KR2s at my airport weighs 740 pounds empty >with a 1835vw on the original retracts. I guess only time will tell if >my heavier engine and larger horizontal tail help out. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:13:13 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR: Changing N-number Ron Lee wrote: > > Got this off a newsgroup. repeated here for the group in case it helps > > Ron Lee > > "Gregory R. Runnels" wrote: > > > Anyone know anything about getting a custom N number? Procedures? > > Cost? > > Easy deal. I just did it. Total cost: $10, plus a couple of stamps. > If you want to change your N Number immediately, send a letter to: > FAA Aircraft Registry > Attn: Central Records > PO Box 25504 > Oklahoma City, OK 73125 > > To whom it may concern: > > This is to request a change of N Number for (aircraft type, serial > number and current N Number). Enclosed, please find a check in the > amount of $10.00. In order of preference, my desired N Numbers are: > (then give them several options). > > As you probably know, you can get a pretty accurate list of all N > numbers either currently in use or on reserve through Landings.com. > However there are numbers not listed in their database which are > unavailable for one reason or another, so the FAA wants some choices. > > Or, you can do what I did....which was to reserve one or more N Numbers > until the day comes when you will paint your plane. > > To whom it may concern: > > This is to request reservation of N Numbers for future application to > an, as yet, unknown aircraft. > > I couldn't make up my mind between two or three favorites, so I reserved > all three for almost two years. > > At the end of your first year, the FAA will send you a postcard saying > that your reservation will expire on such and such a date unless you > send them another $10. > > My situation was complicated slightly because I own my plane in a > corporation, so I had to send a letter releasing the reserved N Number > from my name and reassigning it to my corporation. No big deal. > > The folks at the Aircraft Registry were very helpful when I called for > information or assistance. There was a minimum of bureaucratic niff > naws. And, in the end, it all came off without a hitch. > > My choice? N321MJ for Marilyn (my wife's name) and Jim (uh...me). It > never hurts to name your plane after your wife :-). I liked idea of > being "One Mike Juliet." It's our first plane, after all. > > Being the obsessive kind of guy that I am, I spent several weeks prior > to making my decision saying different N Numbers out loud to see how > they rolled off the tongue. It may sound silly, but I you're going to > be saying that number many thousands of times over the next few years. > I found that my old number: Sundowner One Niner Niner Three Lima was a > mouthful. I didn't want to repeat that. > > Good luck. > -Jim This is true, it's easy but done by mail so don't wait till a week before sign-off/paint to get your N number. You are supposed to get the number before you can paint it on the aircraft. - -- Ross - -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:23:51 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) No real problem here. Slight PIO on my part until I started using my head, however I think I put Toms CG back near the trim tab. (too many french fries) I still have nightmares over the low final approach though.;-} That takes some getting used to after flying a spam can with big barn doors hanging out. Rich Parker >of cake. The people I have given rides to- pilots and non pilots, all >have had no problems controlling the plane. Tom, Rich? > >I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some >kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL >N262TC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:36:37 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR: KR engine mount torque settings Where in the UK are you? >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:10:51 -0500 >From: neil Rawlinson <100647.575@compuserve.com> >Subject: KR: KR engine mount torque settings >To: KRNET >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >Hello all KR-netters! >I'm building a KR in the UK and this is my first outing to KRnet, > >About to instal my 1835cc VW with Hapi Accessory case onto my GPASC stock >VW engine mount. Anyone any ideas about torgue settings for the bolts? >Bingelis says in firewall forward that this is very important and to 'use >the settings recommended in the engine manual' (!) - there aint one! >Any ideas? > >Regards - Neil Rawlinson >aAAny idea ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:17:56 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) > >FWIW Of the four owners, one has basically disappeared, two will tell >you they are scared to death of their airplanes and one says he loves >his. According to an FAA guy who came to my EAA Chapter meeting, one of them flew the thing before the tower opened at Chino during one of his test flights, and did a PIO on landing (or because he just stalled it too high off the runway) whereby he punched the gear through the wings, and did a ground loop. The tower guys arrived to find a KR-2 sitting on their runway with the owner trying to get it moved or just scratching his head at it. Older pilot, turns out no medical (or license, not sure which it was). Anyway they had to keep it there until somebody from Riverside could come out and make an accident report. This was 4 months or so ago, I think, and when he told us about it, the incident wasn't too old. You hear anything about this Mike? Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:20:28 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs/CG >No real problem here. Slight PIO on my part until I started using my >head, however I think I put Toms CG back near the trim tab. (too many >french fries) What would be required designwise, wing relocation wise,etc. to make the CG of a KR such that the pilots sit right on it, so that adding another person wouldn't effect the CG so much? Any planes have it set up this way? Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:17:08 -0600 From: Bobby Muse Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) At 11:42 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >> > Steven Eberhart wrote: >> > > What all of this is building up to is this. In the experienced hands >> of >a KR master it is a neat little airplane. In the hands of a low time, >> > > inexperienced pilot, it is an accident waiting to happen. > >To whom it may concern, > >I started building my KR2 at the same time I started taking lessons. At >the time of my first flight, I had a total of around 50 hours flight >time, all in various trainers. I got a little stick time with a local KR >before my first flight. Took about 5 minutes to make the adjustments >necessary to fly the thing. >Bottom line- My first flight and all the rest have been under control, >safe, and very enjoyable. I have flown it to Sun and Fun, Oshkosh, and >many local fly ins. I now have 92 hours on the KR and about 150 hours >total. (Still a low time pilot). >I think the amount of pitch sensitivity is individual to each KR. My >first ride was in Marty Robert's plane, and I too had a hard time >controling it. On the other hand, the KR I got stick time in was a piece >of cake. The people I have given rides to- pilots and non pilots, all >have had no problems controlling the plane. Tom, Rich? > >I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some >kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) > >Tom Crawford >tomc@afn.org >Gainesville, FL >N262TC > Tom, I agree with you. I had 68 hours total PIC spead over 22 years. After proper taxi tests, flying the KR was 'a piece of cake' and one of the greatest trills that I have ever had. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:42:04 -0800 From: "Joa" Subject: KR: Okoume Ply Just started building my bulkheads out of Okoume and thought I'd share some info for you KR folks since you're all such a cool sort. Stacked, nailed, and cut identical shaped pieces of 1/4" AA Marine Grade Fir and 6mm Okoume and brought them to work to weigh on our analytical scale (+/-.001 gram). The Fir weighed 41% more than the Okoume! I knew the stuff was light but this kind of suprised me. Even better news is that the Okoume is stronger. You can take a piece of fir and bend or twist it and it will crackle and finally delaminate. Not so with the Okoume. Extremely light and strong. Guess thats why the sailboat racers use it in their boats! Too bad its so expensive! Oh, if you don't know Okoume is an African Mahogony used by boatbuilders. Hard to find and expensive but worth it! Thought you might be interested in a little weight savings for your KRs. Joa VP-2+ that just may be light enough for that Type 4! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:01:21 EST From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: KR: KR2S flying experience In a message dated 98-11-04 23:42:09 EST, you write: << Perhaps Haris or Rob have some comments from the viewpoint of their first KR experiences flying my plane. >> Maybe I should share my opinion. I have total of 125 hours flown in Cessnas and Pipers. I tend to get rusty very soon and am in general a slow learner. (soloed in 29 hours private in 80) In addition, last fall I started helicopter training and was ready to solo but the whole affair came to a grinding halt when in April when my instructur got a job flying helicopter tourist tours in Grand Canyon. Next time I flew was in Jeff's airplane. Before I get into details I would point out that a helicopter in hover is extremely unstable and quick. It flies completly diffrently than an airplane (pull back in trouble etc.) This is especially true for R-22 in which I got my training. First five hours I had absolutly no idea of what was going on and I could barely hover for 30 seconds. After ten hour of instruction I was however doing OK. The four months I did not fly made me a little rusty so when I went up on Jeffs plane I had to reacquaint myself with fixed wing flight and I admit I was fighting PIO. There are two tricks I learned while flying the R-22. One is to keep one hand planted firmly between the knees make very small movements. The second is a little difficult to explain. I'll try with an example. Keep the stick centered. lets call this position neutral. If the airplane pitches up push the stick forward and immidiately bring it back to neutral. After a few pushes, the plane will level off. In this way you are not going to chase the plane which is the primary cause of PIO. On other trick I applied which I do not recommend with a very competant instructur is if you get in PIO do exactly opposite of what your instinct say. It worked for me during the first two hours in the R-22 but I have never tried it on an airplane and my not even work. Now I wish I had got some flight time in a 152 and and R-22 immidiately before I went to Perry. Keep in mind that I was flying with two on board and the airplane should be more stable with one pilot on board. But my personal opinion is that I need about five hours of training in a KR-2S plus a sign off in a tail dragger (If I chose to go that way) before I would even high speed taxi mine. There are two flying Dragonflys and a KR2S nearly complete in our hangars so in eighteen to twenty four months it will be grovelling and begging for airtime time for me. Bottom line is that if any airplane is stable (adequate static margin), it will come to one fixed attitude if the stick is fixed. Pitch damping is a function of the elevator area (I plan to increase that 15-20%) and more importantly the elevator moment arm (Increase of 3% which should increase damping by 6% as moment arm term is squared in stability derivatives). Then I plan to use an O-200 and based on Mike Mims and other experience devise a way to move the main gear forward 3-4 inches if I plan to go tail dragger route. I was thinking of using wedges under the gear mounting brackets. If that does not work then I am in trouble. A single axis autopilot:-) Hope this has helped. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:06:05 -0600 From: "Brian J. Bland" Subject: KR: CG Bobby, Care to tell us where the CG is in your KR? Seems that to keep a taildraggers tail dragging the CG needs to be too far rearward. Just curios. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Mail to: bbland@gateway.net http://www.flight2000.com/hangar/KR-2S/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:11:27 -0600 From: "Brian J. Bland" Subject: KR: Progress Just thought I would let everyone know what I have gotten done on my project lately. Tonight my wife (YES I typed that right!!)and I glassed the turtledeck. It turned out pretty good. I have been putting it off for a while because I thought that it would take quite a while. It ended up only taking us about two hours to lay up 2 plys of glass on it. I finally made myself get it glassed because it is getting colder here and I didn't want to wait until spring to glass it. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK Mail to: bbland@gateway.net http://www.flight2000.com/hangar/KR-2S/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:09:59 EST From: Robert7721@aol.com Subject: KR: Flying a KR-2 Jeff Scott wrote The test: This year at the 1998 KR Gathering I took 2 - 100 hour Cessna pilots and two 20 hour student pilots out in my plane. Instead of setting them up at cruise, I trimmed the plane out for 90 mph and let them fly it at a speed where they could keep up with the plane while they learned a feel for it. I kept reaching down and screwing in a little more throttle and retrimming after the first few minutes. Within a few more minutes, they were all happily cruising along at the same speed where more experienced pilots were struggling last year. Perhaps Haris or Rob have some comments from the viewpoint of their first KR experiences flying my plane. Comments; I have about 80 hours Cessna time. Jeff set up the airplane as he said. I was able to adjust to the feel of the airplane without too much trouble. I suspect I had little trouble because of all I have read about the sensitivity of the airplane on KR-NET, and was expecting it. Sensitive but not unmanagable. Jeff did an excellent job of teaching of course. Rob Schmitt Lee's Summit, MO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:15:24 EST From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs/CG In a message dated 98-11-05 20:22:17 EST, you write: << What would be required designwise, wing relocation wise,etc. to make the CG of a KR such that the pilots sit right on it, so that adding another person wouldn't effect the CG so much? >> One thing would be to move the pilots ahead. In Katana the pilots sits on top of the spar an it uses a light Rotax. With a spar depth of 7 3/8" it would not be possible in a KR unless someone comes with a thinner composite spar. An additional bay may have to be added in the front. The Fuel could be in the wings or behind pilot. In a Katana the fuel is behind the pilot. Haris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:23:40 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) >Tom, I agree with you. I had 68 hours total PIC spead over 22 years. >After proper taxi tests, flying the KR was 'a piece of cake' and one of the >greatest trills that I have ever had. > > Bobby Muse Yeah, but that was a year of taxi tests, wasn't it, Bobby ? :) Your story is legend! Robert Covington PS, Speaking of trills, you a Deep Space Nine fan? :) (gotcha again) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:52:44 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: KR: More on Cowlings Cowling heads, last night after work I proceeded directly to the hanger and finished shaping and sanding the right side of my cowling. I then fitted the RV6 intake scoop underneath and temporally a RV spinner and man did it look cool! I have a feeling you motorheads (Tim Taylor types) will really like it. Haris comment was that it has a big nose but there is a reason for it size my friend. Theres a lot of snort in that big beautiful protruding proboscis! :o) I used the X40 expanding foam to fill the gaps in the polystyrene and that stuff is pretty darn neat! If you haven't used it you should. Anyway the cowling is plug is ready for its coating of spackling compound which I will add this weekend along with some final sanding. I should have a complete cowling ready for trimming this time next week. So far I still rate this job easier than working with urethane and building t-decks. I bet that changes when I have to do a little inverted glass work. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:05:02 EST From: BSHADR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Progress In a message dated 98-11-05 23:20:17 EST, you write: << Just thought I would let everyone know what I have gotten done on my project lately. Tonight my wife (YES I typed that right!!)and I glassed the turtledeck. It turned out pretty good. >> For those who do not know, Brian's wife is hot for him to finish the dawgone plane so she can go flying in it...he is just now starting to get the message. Go for it Brian before you decides to go looking for a faster KR builder to help... ;-) Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:00:26 -0500 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Here's my repost of my experiences flying Tom Crawford's KR-2. It looks to me Mike that your gear axles are further back than Diehl gear axles. The Diehl gear struts are angled forward from the main spar a considerable amount. I should add that I'm a student pilot and haven't yet mastered the art of ham-fisting a plane into compliance. Maybe that helped a bit. - -Tom October 17, 1998 Hi Netters, I had my first KR flight ever in Tom Crawford's award-winning KR-2 in Gainesville, FL today. I'm glad to report the KR-2 is everything I thought it would be like and I'm really fired up about my KR-2S project now. I didn't have any problems with pitch control, in fact I did 360 degree steep turns within 100 feet of my original altitude on my first try. It was sooo much easier to handle than the c152 spam cans I'm used to pulling and pushing on, and I love the roll response. It reminded very much of the radio control planes because the stick forces are so light you hardly feel them, you simply watch the reaction to your inputs and "learn" how much does what. The breakout forces center the stick automatically, and we even flew hands off 10 seconds with only a slight roll correction of 5 degrees at the end. I'm 170lbs and 6' tall so I'm the biggest passenger Tom's taken up. We were about 1000 lbs with seven gallons fuel, which puts the CG about 30% back. Tom just adjusted his technique on the more neutral pitch control. Thanks Tom C., for putting up with my size in the cockpit, I had a great KR experience which answered so many nagging questions in my mind. I can't believe how smooth the ride is at 160mph, even with a little turbulence at one point. I could definitely feel the light weight of the KR but the speed zipped us through the bumps. In fact, the KR feels just like a really fast ultralight. Tom has the tri-gear and I think that with a tailwheel certification and some time in a taildragger KR-2S I'll have no problems with my taildragger when it's done. I'm also sure that all the mods I plan to make to my 2S will work fine. It was a real thrill to finally fly a KR after 2 years of working on mine. I'm rejuvenated and vindicated in my choice of airplane. Rich Parker and I had rode up to Tom's house together. I was nearly floored when he sent me an e-mail that said "I'll be flying into Orlando from New Hampshire Friday morning and renting a car to go to Gainesville to see Tom C's KR-2. I'll pick you up and drive you to Gainesville so you can get some KR stick time." I really was speechless for a minute. Thanks Rich. I understand why so many people love the KR so much. It's in a class by itself in terms of simplicity and performance. I can't wait to get mine done and flying. - -Tom Andersen Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:05:46 -0500 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Tom, Your Type 4 VW must weigh more than a Type 1 2180, probably 25lbs more, right? I would think that would be helping the CG with two aboard. - -Tom >> >>I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some >>kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) >> >>Tom Crawford >>tomc@afn.org >>Gainesville, FL >>N262TC > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:05:35 -0500 From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: KR: Re:first flights All this talk of good/bad flying qualities of the KR AC has sparked a thought. How many of you folks did your own first flight?? How many hours flying time did you have at that time? About how many hours do you have on your KR at this time? If you didn't do your first flight, why not?? Not really important, but I thought it might be interesting to hear everyones experiances. WD Wayne DeLisle Sr. Email:support@sestar.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:37:34 -0800 From: Tom Crawford Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Tom Andersen wrote: > > Tom, > Your Type 4 VW must weigh more than a Type 1 2180, probably 25lbs more, > right? I would think that would be helping the CG with two aboard. > -Tom > > >> > >>I am of the opinion that the ones that are hard to control have some > >>kind of problem.(overweight, CG,etc.) > >> > >>Tom Crawford > >>tomc@afn.org > >>Gainesville, FL > >>N262TC > > > It weighs more, but I am not sure how much, never weighed it. I moved the battery and ELT to the rear until the CG was at the foreward limit solo with full fuel. A word of warning tho, it takes a lot of trim tab to trim nose up for 70mph on final in this condition. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:49:54 -0800 From: Micheal Mims Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Tom Andersen wrote: > It looks to me Mike that your gear axles are further back than Diehl gear axles. The Diehl gear struts are angled forward from the main spar a considerable amount.>> I was told the DD Gear put the axles about 4 inches in front of the front face of the main spar, my axles are 4.5 inches in front of the main spar. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:34:12 -0500 From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: KR: Re: Jeff Scotts Observations Email (reply) to cary@storm.ca or ve3ev@rac.ca Web page http://www.storm.ca/~cary/ KR2 area http://www.storm.ca/~cary/kr2.shtml - ---------- > From: AeroManx@aol.com > > Kids are much the same way. They dont have any preconcieved notions about > performance so they will try something. it that doesnt work, they try > something else. Granted the AT6 is a much more stable airplane than the KR but > the learning principles are the same > > > Steve Majercik, Ph,.D. I had a similar experience at Oshkosh in'97. I paid the big bucks to let my 9 year old fly the F16 simulator. The operator said he probably wouldn't do any harm to the system sooo... He had many hours using the Extra-300 in MS-FS and had been right seat for my for most of his life. Getting into the simulator was just like going home. He was a bit small, and had to bolster the seat to reach the rudders. (The operator helped him a bit there with some softwear adjustments.) On his first flight, he did a "Balls to the walls" departure straight up with a loop and a roll to normal filght attitude. Next, he found the simulated target and blew it away on the first shot. His performance went downhill from there with 2 CFIT and one stall, spin, crash episode. It seemed to impress the weekend warriers who had happened by while Alex was under the hood. Being a full Fusilage cockpit, the onlookers had no idea who was at the controls. Their critique indicated that the guy was pretty good, but needed another couple of hundred hours to fully qualify. When the canope started to lift, they all leaned over to see who this hot-shot was. I wish I had had my camera. Not on Alex, but on to the peanut gallery. Alex had to be lifted out of the cockpit as he was too small to do it himself. (Grinning from ear-to-ear). Flights in the 172 are not the same anymore. Too tame. No: he ain't flyin' the KR just yet. - - Cary - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:31:29 EST From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re:first flights Yes I flew my own first flight. Just before touch down I closed my eyes. I have had 900 hrs flying different small planes. I have about 4 hrs on the KR. I am still teacing myself how to land the thing. I allready went through one nose gear and prop. But it is still a fun plane to fly. I have no problems with the takeoff and flying just getting it to slow down enough to land decently. Don Clarke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:53:03 EST From: KRkip@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Re:first flights I also made the first flights in my KR without any major problems. Granted i had lots of taxi time befor i first tookoff but i experienced no real problems. As has been mentioned in other letters the KR is a hard airplane to slow down on final and the view is not what you are going to be used to seeing such as you what you see from a Cessna or Piper. You will be coming in a lot flatter over the fence and your speed will probably be around 60kts.A big problem is learning not to flair too high or too aggressivly,this is when the problems begin. The best way that i have found is to just raise the nose and let the mains roll on to the runway keeping the tail slightly low. I would recomend at least getting a ride in a KR before you fly so you can see what the approachlooks like. I am willing to fly most anywhere in New England to give a demo ride or stick time to new KR pilots just let me know via email and we can arrange the details. Kip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 98 15:08:05 PST From: "Tim Anderson" Subject: Re: KR: Re:first flights Is there a concenses out there that the KR needs a speed brake of sorts? = For those of you who have flown a KR, how would you compare it to a Grum= man TR2/Trainer? Piper Arrow? TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Tim Anderson Stockton, CA tanderso@inreach.com - ---------- > I also made the first flights in my KR without any major problems. Gran= ted i > had lots of taxi time befor i first tookoff but i experienced no real > problems. As has been mentioned in other letters the KR is a hard airp= lane to > slow down on final and the view is not what you are going to be used = to seeing > such as you what you see from a Cessna or Piper. You will be coming in = a lot > flatter over the fence and your speed will probably be around 60kts.A = big > problem is learning not to flair too high or too aggressivly,this is = when the > problems begin. The best way that i have found is to just raise the nos= e and > let the mains roll on to the runway keeping the tail slightly low. I = would > recomend at least getting a ride in a KR before you fly so you can see= what > the approachlooks like. I am willing to fly most anywhere in New Englan= d to > give a demo ride or stick time to new KR pilots just let me know via = email > and we can arrange the details. Kip > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:08:55 -0500 From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) Mike, I just measured my DD gear, and although they aren't assembled yet, they'll put the center of the gear axles 7 inches ahead of the front face of the spar. Can anyone else take a measurement on their DD gear for Mike? - -Tom - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 11:07 AM Subject: Re: KR: Re: PIOs, a very old horse! (was Cowlings) >Tom Andersen wrote: >> It looks to me Mike that your gear axles are further back than Diehl gear axles. The Diehl gear struts are angled forward from the main spar a considerable amount.>> > >I was told the DD Gear put the axles about 4 inches in front of the >front face of the main spar, my axles are 4.5 inches in front of the >main spar. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:07:01 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: KR: Re:speed brake >Is there a concenses out there that the KR needs a speed brake of sorts? Some people mount a "belly board" on their KR. Sort of an under mounted spoiler. I plan to install some wing mounted speed brakes that pop up out of the wing. Robert Covington ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:50:15 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Subject: [none] I am getting ready to start construction on a KR2-S and was wondering if anyone has covered one with kevlar or carbon graphite to save weight. I was also toying with the idea of making a retractable trigear...has this been done in the passed? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Steve _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #174 *****************************