From: owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com[SMTP:owner-krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 3:25 AM To: krnet-l-digest@lists.teleport.com Subject: krnet-l-digest V2 #183 krnet-l-digest Sunday, November 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 183 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:05:57 +0200 From: 5253 Subject: RE: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) Dean, i'm very sorry! juss At 10:03 13.11.98 -0600, you wrote: >Juss, >I think the word you are looking for is "guys" not gays - Big difference, very big difference! > >Dean > >-----Original Message----- >From: 5253 [SMTP:juss@teleport.ee] >Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:00 AM >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) > >Hi! You gays are really lucky. We in Estonia don't have tornado's - so we >can't buy cheap engine or airframe. > > >Juss >from Estonia > > >At 23:46 12.11.98 -0600, you wrote: >>Netters, >> >>Mike wrote ">Every time you turn around you >>>hear some dude say "Lycomings and Continentals cost too much" and it >>>just aint so. Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >>>don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I bought >>>my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >>>less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o)" >> >>Yep, I have to agree with Mike on this one. When I started building my >>project I knew that I would have to mess with the design of the thing - I >>guess that is just the way I'm made. But, if I was going to change a lot >>with the structure of the airplane, then I wanted to have something that >>was reliable to drag it into the sky. I started looking at cert. engines. >>Mike is right when it comes to the cost of new or even re-manufactured - >>they are way over-priced, but when I started looking at used - well, that >>was a different story. >> >>There are many "deals" out there, but you have to know what you are looking >>for, and be patient. I found this O-290G after quite a little digging >>around. Engine cores are easily had for less than $1000 and most can be >>found for under $500. You can rebuild them yourself because they don't have >>to be certified when they are mounted to an experimental airframe. They >>engines are very straight-forward on the inside - really, just an overgrown >>VW engine. And with a little scrounging, parts can be found inexpensively >>as well. >> >>One of the things that I strongly considered (and still am) is buying a >>wrecked cert plane. I wanted one that had been flipped in a wind storm or >>damaged by some other disaster that happened while the engine wasn't >>running (no prop strike.) This way, with a little work, you get the engine >>and all of the accessories, plus the instruments and avionics for not a lot >>of money. Example; a couple of months ago I bid on a wrecked 150 with a >>O-200 that was damaged by a tornado - airframe was totaled. I lost the bid, >>but I called the guy who won it, and asked him what he paid (why not?) It >>turned out that he got the whole thing for $3200 ($150 more than what I >>bid.) So, you take the parts you want, sell the parts you don't (but that >>are undamaged) and turn the rest of it into scrap aluminum. - I bet you >>have less than $2000 into a complete engine and most of the panel! Even if >>you had to pay $5000, it would still be a deal. One of the guys in my EAA >>chapter bought a wrecked Long-EZ with a O-235 with less than 100 hours TSMO >>and a beautiful IFR dash for $2000. >> >>So what did I have to give for this O-290G - $300. And it's perfect! I will >>still tear it down (despite the total of 500 hours on it, just to make sure >>that everything is up to snuff. I also want to replace the cam and do >>couple of other things. I will have to pick up a new oilpan, a second mag >>(or something else) and a carb. By the time its all said and done I should >>have less than $1000 into this engine and it will be exactly the same as an >>O-290D. >> >>Dean >> >>Mailto:drdean@execpc.com >> >> >> >Johan Pender >------------------ >GSM 372 5 048 958 >GSM post 372 5 3048 958 > > Johan Pender - ------------------ GSM 372 5 048 958 GSM post 372 5 3048 958 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:50:35 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: A man of few words. >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:34:16 +0000 >From: Great Plains Aircraft >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: engine case >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com > >don't. steve> It sure would help me to follow the threads if you could set up your e-mail program to "reply with history" For those of us who are planning on using your products it sure would help us and save us some phone calls to you. :-) Richard Parker AARP (Association for the Advancement of Richard Parker) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:10:56 PST From: "Richard Parker" Subject: KR: KR engine options. For those of us who arent as experimental engine savy, it sure would be nice to have a web page that did a side by side comparisons specs, hp, est. weight pro's cons of all the engines you thought had possibilities for use on the KR. hint hint Rich Parker >Sure a brand new one is priced in the stupid range but I >don't know how many complete engines I have come across since I >bought >my 290 for less than $1000! Dr Dean got a complete RUNNING O-290 for >less than,.......well I better let him tell you! :o) So what if you >bought a C85 or an O-200 with only 500 hours left on it? Heck for >most >of us that's about 5 years worth of flying. >Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:20:50 -0800 >From: Mike Mims >To: krnet-l@teleport.com >Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs >Reply-To: krnet-l@teleport.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:44:23 EST From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs In a message dated 11/13/98 12:27:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, WARRONFLYS@worldnet.att.net writes: << I had the best training experience of my life when o-200 blew a jug off at 300 hours, it was my final cross country as a student. if that was gonna happen i figured may as well go to auto conversion soob Warron >> Warron, is your soob conversion flying? I can't remember if you told me while in TN. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:47:32 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR: engine case Steve Bennett wrote: >don't. steve > Steve, I know you don't mind the image as a man of few words, but I have no earthly idea what this refers to. How about a few more words for those of us with short memories? Personally, I wanna hear what you have to say... Mark Langford - -----Original Message----- From: Great Plains Aircraft To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 7:33 PM Subject: Re: KR: engine case ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:05:32 -0500 From: Chris Gardiner Subject: Re: KR: KR-2 Characteristics Rob, I am building a KR2S in the Toronto area ( Whitby) and can give you alot of info .( other builders etc.) Give me a call if you wish. Regards Chris Gardiner 905 668 5703 Robert McDonald wrote: > > Please bear with me, I'm sure that my lack of KR related knowledge will > become apparent :-) > > I am considering buying a KR-2. I want something not too expensive, > (purchase and operating cost), to build some hours in and do some short > trips. By short I mean mostly 100-200 miles, with the occasional trip to > Montreal, (I live north of Toronto) > > I have limited experience, and I am just getting back into flying after > several years on the ground. I would like to learn a bit about what the > KR-2 flys like. I am told the plane in question has the "Diehl" (sp?) mods, > (longer wings, tricycle gear?) and so is not as "hot" as the original KR-2. > > I have flown: > Power: C-150, C-172, Cherokee 140 > Sailplane: Schweitzer 2-33, 1-26, 232, Blanik > > Should I be looking for something else, or is the KR-2 reasonable for a > "new" pilot like me? I would obviously want to spend some time flying with > an experienced KR-2 pilot, until I felt comfortable with it. Is there > anybody near me? (I am told this one was built in Hamilton, the current > owner is in Montreal). > > All information, pointers and suggestions are welcome. > > Rob > > ----------------------- Robert J. McDonald, P.Eng. ----------------------- > Industrial Automation M.Sc. - Computation > Real Time Embedded Software B.Tech.-Mechanical Engineering > Scientific & Engineering Software Voice: 519-372-9916 Fax: 519-372-9356 > ------------------------- rob.mcdonald@forth.org ------------------------- Robert McDonald wrote: > > Please bear with me, I'm sure that my lack of KR related knowledge will > become apparent :-) > > I am considering buying a KR-2. I want something not too expensive, > (purchase and operating cost), to build some hours in and do some short > trips. By short I mean mostly 100-200 miles, with the occasional trip to > Montreal, (I live north of Toronto) > > I have limited experience, and I am just getting back into flying after > several years on the ground. I would like to learn a bit about what the > KR-2 flys like. I am told the plane in question has the "Diehl" (sp?) mods, > (longer wings, tricycle gear?) and so is not as "hot" as the original KR-2. > > I have flown: > Power: C-150, C-172, Cherokee 140 > Sailplane: Schweitzer 2-33, 1-26, 232, Blanik > > Should I be looking for something else, or is the KR-2 reasonable for a > "new" pilot like me? I would obviously want to spend some time flying with > an experienced KR-2 pilot, until I felt comfortable with it. Is there > anybody near me? (I am told this one was built in Hamilton, the current > owner is in Montreal). > > All information, pointers and suggestions are welcome. > > Rob > > ----------------------- Robert J. McDonald, P.Eng. ----------------------- > Industrial Automation M.Sc. - Computation > Real Time Embedded Software B.Tech.-Mechanical Engineering > Scientific & Engineering Software Voice: 519-372-9916 Fax: 519-372-9356 > ------------------------- rob.mcdonald@forth.org ------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:49:46 EST From: Mdoby34371@aol.com Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines (was Turbo wastegate / Posa carbs) I'm with you there. I've built lots of engines and I know that I don't trust " rebuilt " engines at all. If it's going in my plane that I've built then I want to know every turn of every bolt in that powerplant. just my two cents. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:49:25 -0500 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: Props is props? NOT! Apparently a time bomb makes it tick - -----Original Message----- From: Micheal Mims To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 10:55 AM Subject: Re: KR: Props is props? NOT! >SRMAKISH@aol.com wrote: >> >> Mike, we lost a family of 4 here in boca raton about a year and a half ago. The plane was a cozy and the "new design" ivo prop came apart. It was a 3 blade and slung a blade, and vibrated everything to death, literally. You are right, it is a piece of crap and I think that is a generous description. I fly a prince p tip on my kr. It is a 52x66. >> srmakish @aol.com > >You know I am not much on things ending up in a court room but this is >one time (the first time) that if I were killed by a Prop built as badly >as this one I would hope my wife would sue the crap out of the company. >Of course I am not the type who would bolt a prop like that one to my >airplane without first disassembling it to see what makes it tick. > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building ailerons and firewall now >mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Irvine Ca >Fax 949.856.9417 >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:28:17 -0500 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs been doing engine tests .not ready yet about 8 hours more work and paint and 1000.00 Bucks - -----Original Message----- From: KR2616TJ@aol.com To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:56 PM Subject: Re: KR: Turbo wastegate/Posa carbs >In a message dated 11/13/98 12:27:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, >WARRONFLYS@worldnet.att.net writes: > ><< I had the best training experience of my life when o-200 blew a jug off at > 300 hours, it was my final cross country as a student. if that was gonna > happen i figured may as well go to auto conversion soob Warron >> > >Warron, is your soob conversion flying? I can't remember if you told me while >in TN. > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:33:53 EST From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines >I agree that you can find certified used motors relitively cheaply. >But the >real cost is in the rebuild. >If you want to use new parts in the rebuild of a certified engine it >will cost >you much more. >I can almost build an entire 2180 motor for the cost of one jug, >piston and >head for a 0-290. >I think that the bigger question here is how secure are you in your >engine >building skills. >I have rebuilt VW motors, for my own and friends cars, since 1968. >They are easy but I would not want to sit behind my first one in an >aircraft. >What I am trying to say is if you are sure of your skills then a SOOB, >VW etc >will be ok. >If you are not that sure of engine building and repair then cough up >the $ for >a certified motor. > >Just my 2 cents..... I've noticed a lot of guys saying they're using certified engines for reliability, but most of them are also saying that they're planning to disassemble them for inspection, which means they're not "certified engines" anymore unless the guy reassembling the engine is an A&P or under an A&P's supervision. The VW's used in planes generally have new parts or parts reconditioned by knowledgeable suppliers like Great Plains. The hideous cost of new and reconditioned certified parts encourages people to keep parts they might otherwise discard. Therefore, although a new certified engine probably is more reliable than a VW, one rebuilt with questionable parts by someone who doesn't know how to inspect them correctly may not be. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:50:56 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines "Michael C. Taglieri" wrote: > I've noticed a lot of guys saying they're using certified engines for > reliability, but most of them are also saying that they're planning to > disassemble them for inspection, which means they're not "certified > engines" anymore unless the guy reassembling the engine is an A&P or > under an A&P's supervision.>>>> I think the term certified is being used to describe an engine that was once used in a Piper, Cessna, etc. and I am sure you knew that. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:40:56 -0800 From: "Martin Mulvey" Subject: KR: Re: RE: Mazda Engines Thanks a lot for the added info. I'll be down and Daves this weekend to see it. It sounds pretty good. VBRGDS Marty - -----Original Message----- From: Diamond Woodie SSG To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: 12 November, 1998 14:54 Subject: KR: RE: Mazda Engines >I have some information on this engine. I went by the hanger after our >local EAA meeting and took a look at it. It is a twin rotor design that >Dave says develops 75 hp at the crank at 6000 rpm. It is fitted with >electronic fuel injection, dual rotor driven ignition, and a 3/1 belt driven >reduction drive. The engine as fitted weighs 115 pounds and is a German >import core base. The cost of the unit, sans radiator and exhaust is $9600. >Anyone wanting more information can visit their web site. > >SSG Woodie H.W. Diamond Sr. >Staff Sergeant, United States Army >704th Military Police Battalion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Mulvey [mailto:kr2smm@email.msn.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:12 AM > To: krnet-l@teleport.com > Subject: KR: Mazda Engines > > Hi All, > > I spoke with Dave Atkins (Atkins Rotary) about his latest >developments > tonight particularly as far as KR2 aircraft are concerned. > > He has now a two rotor, 75HP engine available for the type. >It weighs 115 > pounds fitted with dual ignition, alternator, starter and >belt driven > prop reduction (2.0:1, 3.0:1) drive. Cost or other >particulars, I don't > know. > > Although I am close by, I have not seen the unit yet. I will >be seeing it > over the coming weekend and will let you know then. > > He has a good product and this might really be promising. > > BRGDS, Marty > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:05:31 EST From: Kr2jm@aol.com Subject: KR: GCS Prop Has any one heard of a three bladed ground adjustable wooden prop? One of our EAA Chapter members saw one, and the only name he could find on it is the letters "GCS." Jim Morehead kr2jm@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:51:24 +0200 From: Christo Kriek Subject: RE: KR: Cert. Engines - --Boundary=_0.0_=0045800000543902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline As a future KR owner/restorer I am getting confused with all this engin= e stuff on the list, due to my background in chemistry and not mechanic= s. The following questions sprung to mind when I read the list 1) How reliable is the VW engine in relation with the other egines you = can use? 2) On how many hours must the VW be overhauled? 3) Which props is an absolute NO? 4) What size prop is best for flying from an airfield at 5000' ASL on a= 2L VW? 5) Can it by made at the hanger if you have all the tools? If anybody can help I would appreciattte it very much. Thanks Christo Kriek SSF Laboratory +27 17 6102002 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-krnet-l@smtp.teleport.com [mailto:owner-krnet-l@smtp.tele= port.com] On Behalf Of mikemims@pacbell.net Sent: Saturday, November 14, 1998 8:56 AM To: krnet-l@teleport.com Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines "Michael C. Taglieri" wrote: > I've noticed a lot of guys saying they're using certified engines for= > reliability, but most of them are also saying that they're planning t= o > disassemble them for inspection, which means they're not "certified > engines" anymore unless the guy reassembling the engine is an A&P or > under an A&P's supervision.>>>> I think the term certified is being used to describe an engine that was= once used in a Piper, Cessna, etc. and I am sure you knew that. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ = - --Boundary=_0.0_=0045800000543902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Kriek;Christo FN:Kriek, Christo (CJ) ORG:SSF;Production Integration TITLE:Mr NOTE:SSF TEL;WORK;VOICE:+27 17 610 2002 ADR;WORK:;Secunda;;Secunda;MPumalanga;2302;South Africa LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:Secunda=3D0D=3D0ASecunda, MPumal= anga 2302=3D0D=3D0ASouth Africa EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:KriekCJ@sasol.com REV:19981104T153227Z END:VCARD = - --Boundary=_0.0_=0045800000543902-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:08:19 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: Re: KR: engine case/gpasc >Steve Bennett wrote: > >>don't. steve >> > >Steve, > >I know you don't mind the image as a man of few words, but I have no earthly >idea what this refers to. How about a few more words for those of us with >short memories? Personally, I wanna hear what you have to say... > >Mark Langford I have to agree! That one was a tough nut to crack. I think it refers to Jeff Scott's letter about using silk. Jeff wrote: > As for the silk string in the VW cases, I'll defer to Dana and >Steve on that. Some quoted text in your replies would help out a bunch at times like these, Steve.:) Got to be a pref setting in the emailer somewhere for that, unless it is one of those that just requires selecting the text desired before hitting reply, as with AOL for example. Robert Covington If you clone a piece of coal, is that a carbon copy? If you write in all Caps, EVERYTHING'S BIG IN TEXT-AS. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:18:55 PST From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR: Snipping a reply Yo, Netters If you're going to 'reply' to a post to krnet, how about doing a little bit of editing of the post first? That is, use your mouse to highlight and 'edit-cut' and snip text that isn't pertinent (or use your backspace key to delete it, for you non mouse users). Same goes for wordy/lengthy signature lines. Some of the posts are getting to be 95% flox and 5% resin, if you know what I mean! Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:55:24 -0600 From: Dean Collette Subject: RE: KR: Cert. Engines >Therefore, although a new certified engine probably is more reliable than >a VW, one rebuilt with questionable parts by someone who doesn't know how >to inspect them correctly may not be. >Mike Taglieri Kind of assuming a lot there, aren't you Mike? Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:47:43 -0700 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines No engine is any better than the maintenance that goes into it. Certification not withstanding, some are worse. I have flown behind certified engines that I would have gladly traded for the reliability of a VW. I have flown behind certified engines that were rock solid. I have also flown behind some non certified engines that I would put up against any certified engine for reliablility. There are three critical elements: quality of design, quality of parts, quality of maintenance. Poor quality in any of these three elements will make for some serious headaches. In nearly 23 years of flying I have had two engines go bad. Both were low time engines and both failures were traced directly to A&P mechanics performing shoddy work including noncompliance with service bulletins during overhaul. An A&P license does not mean that a person should be working on an airplane or even allowed near it. It is a license to sign paperwork. After the second engine failure, I made it a rule never to allow a mechanic near my planes without me there to do the work. Having survived a night time engine failure in the mountains, I give alot of thought towards what I'm willing to fly behind and who builds it. I don't want to limit when and where I fly my plane due to the choice of engine. If I'm not comfortable flying over rough mountain terrain 100 miles from the nearest airport or at night over known mountainous terrain, then I don't have the right engine. I routinely fly my KR in both circumstances. My KR ended up with a Continental, which will eventually be replaced by another Continental. That statement is not meant to demean other engines. I would happily fly behind a properly built redundant ignition VW or Soob as well. I didn't want to put the time, money and effort into engine development and working out the growing pains while flying out of a high altitude mountain airport where engine failures tend to have a high mortality rate. Steve has gone along ways towards taking the development time out of the VW. The Florida guys are working on doing the same for the Soobs, although it's gonna take them a while to build up the track record. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:17:49 -0500 From: Darren Brigman Subject: KR: Any unfaithfuls out there? Hey guys, I have a bird that I need to get rid of! ( sorry, it's not a KR) it's a 1985 American Aerolights Eagle Canard. Sails in near new shape, never crashed, never bent. I'm selling the plane only, no engine. If anyone is interested, drop me a line. By the way, I love to horse trade! thanks darren Mdoby34371@aol.com wrote: > I'm with you there. I've built lots of engines and I know that I don't trust > " rebuilt " > engines at all. If it's going in my plane that I've built then I want to know > every turn of every bolt in that powerplant. > just my two cents. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:34:55 -0500 From: "WARRON GRAY" Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines Amen to that gentleman inthe other part of this fine country when we establish ourselves it will be of help to those other soobers Warron - -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey E Scott To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 4:55 PM Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines >No engine is any better than the maintenance that goes into it. >Certification not withstanding, some are worse. I have flown behind >certified engines that I would have gladly traded for the reliability of >a VW. I have flown behind certified engines that were rock solid. I >have also flown behind some non certified engines that I would put up >against any certified engine for reliablility. There are three critical >elements: quality of design, quality of parts, quality of maintenance. >Poor quality in any of these three elements will make for some serious >headaches. > >In nearly 23 years of flying I have had two engines go bad. Both were >low time engines and both failures were traced directly to A&P mechanics >performing shoddy work including noncompliance with service bulletins >during overhaul. An A&P license does not mean that a person should be >working on an airplane or even allowed near it. It is a license to sign >paperwork. After the second engine failure, I made it a rule never to >allow a mechanic near my planes without me there to do the work. > >Having survived a night time engine failure in the mountains, I give alot >of thought towards what I'm willing to fly behind and who builds it. I >don't want to limit when and where I fly my plane due to the choice of >engine. If I'm not comfortable flying over rough mountain terrain 100 >miles from the nearest airport or at night over known mountainous >terrain, then I don't have the right engine. I routinely fly my KR in >both circumstances. > >My KR ended up with a Continental, which will eventually be replaced by >another Continental. That statement is not meant to demean other >engines. I would happily fly behind a properly built redundant ignition >VW or Soob as well. I didn't want to put the time, money and effort into >engine development and working out the growing pains while flying out of >a high altitude mountain airport where engine failures tend to have a >high mortality rate. Steve has gone along ways towards taking the >development time out of the VW. The Florida guys are working on doing >the same for the Soobs, although it's gonna take them a while to build up >the track record. > >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com >See N1213W construction and first flight at >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html >http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm > > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:59:15 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: GCS Prop Has any one heard of a three bladed ground adjustable wooden prop? One of our EAA Chapter members saw one, and the only name he could find on it is the letters "GCS." Jim Morehead kr2jm@aol.com Would only advise using a two blade wood prop on vw's driven off the pulley end. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:57:11 +0000 From: Great Plains Aircraft Subject: Re: KR: engine case Sorry, short messages have to do with answering about 25 to 50 e-mails a day. At some point in time I'll learn to include the question, but that hasen't happend yet. steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:29:31 -0700 From: "Jeb" Subject: KR: Re: GCS Prop GCS props are Canadian, I saw a 3 bladed wooden one on ?: I forgot what kind of plane at Copperstate. I couldn't find any presence on the web for them guys, Also I didn't ever see any advertisements for them in any of the 4 magazines I take. You might email Dave at Reductions Inc in Canada. I ended up with a Warp Drive. John Bryhan jeb@thuntek.net // www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm Los Alamos, NM > Has any one heard of a three bladed ground adjustable wooden prop? One of our > EAA Chapter members saw one, and the only name he could find on it is the > letters "GCS." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:28:19 EST From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines >> I've noticed a lot of guys saying they're using certified engines >for >> reliability, but most of them are also saying that they're planning >to >> disassemble them for inspection, which means they're not "certified >> engines" anymore unless the guy reassembling the engine is an A&P or >> under an A&P's supervision.>>>> > > >I think the term certified is being used to describe an engine that >was >once used in a Piper, Cessna, etc. and I am sure you knew that. Oh, of course I knew that, but you didn't quote the rest of my post, which explains what I meant: these engines have often been rebuilt over and over with used parts rather than new ones, and may need that again now. If the guy putting it in a KR and "checking it out" first is also an A&P, he'll know which parts are good enough to use again, but otherwise that may not be true. The guy putting in an auto engine conversion -- probably made with new parts, doesn't have this problem. For example, a set of reused jugs on a Continental that had been inspected, measured, Magnafluxed, etc., by an A&P before being returned to service probably is more reliable than a set of brand-new VW jugs from Great Plains, but don't kid yourself that they're automatically more reliable if this has not been done. Of course, many people on this list are A&P's and are used to putting these old engines back in service, but the rest may be living in an illusion to believe that their Lycomings and Continentals will automatically turn out to be "more reliable" than a brand-new auto-engine conversion. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:02:59 -0600 From: Dean Collette Subject: RE: KR: Cert. Engines Mike Taglieri said; > . . . these engines have often been rebuilt over and over with used parts rather than new ones, and may need that again >now. If the guy putting it in a KR and "checking it out" first is also an A&P, he'll know which parts are good enough to use again, >but otherwise that may not be true. I don't know about that. A friend of mine is an A&P. The guy can work miracles with aluminum and steel frames but probably hasn't seen a crankshaft in 10 years. Technically speaking, he can still yellow tag one though. Another friend of mine owns a crankshaft shop (that's all they do) but he's not an A&P. Now, which one do you want to inspect the crank turning your prop? > The guy putting in an auto engine conversion -- probably made with new parts, doesn't have this problem. Have you ever heard of the term "factory-recall"? >For example, a set of reused jugs on a Continental that had been inspected, measured, Magnafluxed, etc., by an A&P before >being returned to service probably is more reliable than a set of brand-new VW jugs from Great Plains . . . Wow! That is a bold statement! I am a Lycoming fan, and even I wouldn't say that! >Of course, many people on this list are A&P's and are used to putting these old engines back in service, but the rest may be living >in an illusion to believe that their Lycomings and Continentals will automatically turn out to be "more reliable" than a brand-new >auto-engine conversion. Mike, I think you're missing the point here. Did you read Jeff Scott's post? In my original post to this thread, I mentioned reliability. Maybe that was a mistake, because reliability is in the eye of the beholder. FOR ME a cert. type engine was the right choice. (In the past I had several bad experiences with VWs and I am not crazy about the added complexity of water cooling or re-drives.) Like Jeff, I would also fly behind a properly built VW or Soob. If I could have Langford's engine for what I will have into this Lycoming - I'd do it in a heartbeat, and never look back. The bottom line on reliability is like Jeff said - Design, Quality parts, and Quality maintenance. You can't just take a VW out of a 72 Super Beetle and stick it on the front of an airplane, or a Soob out of whatever the hell that they come out of - and the same thing is true for a Lyc. or Continental. The nice thing about experimental is that you have the choice, and you can do the work yourself, if you're comfortable with it. Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:01:54 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR: Cert. Engines Dean Collette wrote: >For example, a set of reused jugs on a Continental that had been > inspected, measured, Magnafluxed, etc., by an A&P before >being returned to service probably is more reliable than a set of brand-new VW jugs from Great Plains . . .>>> I think Jeff Scott makes some really good points. Reliability is a result of many different things not just the design of the engine itself. I do however maintain that even in the hands of an eXperimenter, a Lycoming, Continental, Franklin (cert. types) will have an advantage over ANY auto conversion due to the fact it is doing a job it was DESIGNED to do. That being said we sure had fun today farting around with the 1835 VW on the front of Allan's Dragonfly. We were trying to squeeze another 100 rpm out of it to help improve the climb rate and found that his ignition was advanced too much. We retarded it today and his max static RPM cam up about 150. This resulted in a rate of climb increase of about 250fpm! Also his EGT temps are finally up where they should be. With the timing advanced so far (I bet he was on the verge of detonation) the EGTs would max out at 1050 degrees. Now when he leans it out the temps come on up to 1250 or so. We keep tweaking and it just keeps getting better! Damn this is fun! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:28:03 -0800 From: Mike Mims Subject: KR: Its a FAKE! If you guys have time stop by my home page and check out the fake image at the top (of the Sky Pig in paint and wheel pants). You may have to reload the page to see the new image. Kinda looks like a Swift. Cowling plug is finished, just needs glass now. Woo Hoo! - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Irvine Ca Fax 949.856.9417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:33:26 -0500 From: "R.W. Moore" Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re: News Letters Scanned copy will do I will print it out here. My Mailing address is R. W. Moore POB 622 Toccoa, Ga. 30577-1410 Thanks , RWM - -----Original Message----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: krnet-l@teleport.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 7:47 AM Subject: Re: KR: Re: Re: News Letters >At 07:25 AM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Please send me the information on TURBO Charging by Dan Diehl. >>R. W. Moore > >Sure, you want hard copy, or will a scanned image do?? > >What engine are you working on?? > >I have a 2.0L Type-4 VW bus engine that I plan to turbocharge. > >WD >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Email:support@sestar.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:28:32 -0800 From: Robert Covington Subject: KR: Re:Its a FAKE! >If you guys have time stop by my home page and check out the fake image >Micheal Mims Tell me you aren't going to fair the gear legs like that, please. :) Looks like a Kenner Sport! Robert Covington Center for Aesthetic Leg Fairings (CALF) ------------------------------ End of krnet-l-digest V2 #183 *****************************