From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 12:05 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: December 22, 1998 KR-net users group Digest for Tuesday, December 22, 1998. 1. Re: flywheel questions 2. The Jabiru Engine 3. Re: The Jabiru Engine - some thoughts 4. testing 5. Re: The Jabiru Engine - some thoughts 6. Re: KR2-S with O-200 ingine 7. Re: [kr-net] 8. Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) 9. Re: The Jabiru Engine 10. Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) 11. Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) 12. Re: Tandem KR 13. Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: flywheel questions From: "bennett family" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 19:34:31 PST X-Message-Number: 1 G'day Jesse Steve Jenkins had the same problem as you have. He called up Steve Benn= ett at Great Plains and Steve was able to alter one of the ones he sells to fit the Hapi case= . Basically the ring gear is cut off the fly wheel and set further down, also the rotating magnets are trimmed dow= n as well. Steve Jenkins is at jenks@cobweb.com.au Good luck Malcolm Bennett--------- > > Hey guys, me again. The aluminum flywheel in my 1835 HAPI is breaking = > apart were it bolts to the crank. Does anyone know of a flywheel that = I > can replace it with using the same acc. case and alternator that I > have?? Or does anyone know if I can get a bigger alternator (larger tha= n > 20 amps) if I must get a new one anyway? Has anyone ever ran a stock = VW > flywheel and ran an alternator off either end of the engine using belts > or gears?? What I would like to do is run a regular steel flywheel and > bolt the mag drive to it, using the same HAPI case, then take a regula= r > (60 amp) alternator run off a belt drive somehow. Any ideas on this? = I > know that I can get a different flywheel from great plaines, but then = i > also need to buy an alternator and accesory case to match. While I hav= e > everything apart i would like to upgrade alternators if possible to run > lights, radios, instruments, ect. Thanks. > > Jesse Klebsch > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: benfam@picknowl.com.au > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: The Jabiru Engine From: "Albert Pecoraro" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:19:21 EST X-Message-Number: 2 Topic Change: Jabiru Engine I have been exploring possible engine options for the KR-2S and I noticed the Jabiru Engine, specifically the 2200A. Here are the specs from their web-site: Engine Description 4 Stroke 4 Cylinder Horizontally Opposed 1 Central Camshaft Push Rods Over Head Valves (OHV) Ram Air Cooled Wet Sump Lubrication Direct Propeller Drive Dual Transistorised Magneto Ignition Integrated AC Generator Electric Starter Mechanical Fuel Pump Naturally Aspirated - 1 Pressure Compensating Carburettor 6 Bearing Crankshaft Engine Specification Displacement 2200cc Bore 97.5mm Stroke 74mm Compression Ratio 9.5:1 Rotation of Prop Shaft Clockwise - Pilot's View - Tractor Ramp Weight 56kg (123lb) inc. Exhaust, Carburettor, Starter Motor, Alternator & Ignition System. Ignition Timing 25° BTDC Firing Order 1-3-2-4 DC Output 10amps Power Rating 60kw (80hp) @ 3300rpm Fuel Consumption 14 l/hr (3 gal/hr) @ 75% power Fuel AVGAS 100LL Oil AeroShell W100 or 15W50 or equivalent aircraft grade oil Oil Capacity 2.3l (2.2 Quarts) Spark Plugs NGK D9EA - Automotive Would anyone be able to tell me what type of performance could be expected on a KR-2S with this engine based on the above info (i.e. cruising speed, top speed, rate of climb, etc)? The reason I am asking is that there was a blurb on their web-site comparing it to other engines in its class, and they mentioned the VW derivatives (see following text): "...At 56kg installed weight the Jabiru 2200 Aircraft Engine is an ideal replacement for the Rotax 582 2-cylinder 2-stroke engine which powers many of the existing light aircraft; surprisingly it is the same weight as the Rotax 582 . It is also a lightweight, smaller-package alternative to all of the VW derivative engines and the Rotax 912. It is an engine designed by aircraft designers for aircraft applications! ..." I know that most of you on this Net prefer the VW product. This is not intended to "challenge" your beliefs - I would just like to learn how to interpret this type of information so that one day I will be able to make my own decision on which engine to use. I am not a mechanic nor am I familiar with engines so I thank you in advance for your input. Albert Pecoraro ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Jabiru Engine - some thoughts From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:48:50 EST X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 98-12-22 09:29:12 EST, Albert wrote: << "...At 56kg installed weight the Jabiru 2200 Aircraft Engine is an ideal replacement for the Rotax 582 2-cylinder 2-stroke engine which powers many of the existing light aircraft; surprisingly it is the same weight as the Rotax 582 . It is also a lightweight, smaller-package alternative to all of the VW derivative engines and the Rotax 912. It is an engine designed by aircraft designers for aircraft applications! ..." I know that most of you on this Net prefer the VW product. This is not intended to "challenge" your beliefs - I would just like to learn how to interpret this type of information so that one day I will be able to make my own decision on which engine to use. I am not a mechanic nor am I familiar with engines so I thank you in advance for your input. >> Albert Many of us like the Jabiru "concept" but, for me, the $13-16k price is still too rich - at least until my lotto number comes in. The 6 cyl also needs a year ot two out in service before the jury comes back with the verdict. I also am concerned with parts that only come from one or two suppliers. It would be nice to see it a little more mainstream. If you break something (and we know that never happens with airplanes), how long does it take to get you back in the air? My opinion only. Flame away… Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: testing From: foxtrot@dixie-net.com Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:7:4 X-Message-Number: 4 This is only a test ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Jabiru Engine - some thoughts From: msharkey@softarc.com (Mike Sharkey) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:25:31 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 kr-net@telelists.com writes: >Many of us like the Jabiru "concept" but, for me, the $13-16k price is still >too rich - at least until my lotto number comes in. The 6 cyl also needs a >year ot two out in service before the jury comes back with the verdict. I >also am concerned with parts that only come from one or two suppliers. It >would be nice to see it a little more mainstream. If you break something (and >we know that never happens with airplanes), how long does it take to get you >back in the air? Tiger Aviation has the Jabaru 2200 currently listed at $8950.00 US. This is a complete, ready-to-go engine, including dual mags, spark plugs, carb, starter, alternator, and exaust. When compared to a similarly equiped brand new aero-VW, I think you'll find the price only slightly higher when all is said and done. It seems that they've at least made some effort to source some off-the-shelf parts, presumably to keep they're manufacturing costs down, but as a side benefit, you may be able to obtain at least some parts locally, even so, there are numerous Jabaru dealers sprouting up in North America, even here in Canada. I've written to Jabaru to try and obtain a complete list of off-the-sheft automotive parts used in the engine, I've not heard back as of yet. some quotes from Jabaru: -------------------- Under a direct supply arrangement with Honda, various components of the engine are sourced. These items include valve springs, camshaft followers, and the bendix gear in the starter motor. The ignition coils are also sourced from Honda, but are modified by Jabiru for their own particular application. Pistons are sourced from GM but are re-machined to include a piston pin circlip groove. They are fitted with 3 rings, the top rings being cast iron to complement the chrome molybdenum cylinder bores. Valves are 7mm (stem dia) which are manufactured for the Jabiru engine. The fuel induction system comprises a BING pressure compensating carburettor, similar to that used in the Rotax 912 engine. Following carburation, the fuel/air mixture is transported to a small plennum chamber in the sump casting, in which the mixture is warmed prior to entering four short induction tubes attached to the cylinder heads. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2-S with O-200 ingine From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:39:37 EST X-Message-Number: 6 Jeanette has a two-page drawing set available on request showing the mount recommended for a Continental engine . The drawing also shows thrust centerline referenced to the top longeron - a dimension not included in the basic plans. Bob Lasecki Chicago & 30 below this morning! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [kr-net] From: "Jim Sellars" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:58:59 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 Lucky fellow; just begin the process. work as hard and as regularly as you can. In a year or two you'll have as valuable an opinion as anyone else, and we will be able learn from your experience. Now should you fail in your intention to complete let us know. We'll be very interested. Regards Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jonpegr1@aol.com To: KR-net users group Cc: Jonpegr1@aol.com Date: December 21, 1998 6:55 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: [kr-net] >Hello kr builders, >I've been listening in for a couple of weeks trying to get informed as much as >possible, and work up the courage to join in once my kit arrived. Yesterday, >I finally recieved my kr2s kit complete with a 2100d turbo revmaster engine >(VW). I bought the kit from someone in Utah who had just started pulling >things out of boxes when his health failed him. I've been blessed with buying >the kit, all instruments, and engine for less than the cost of the engine >alone. >This sight is a true godsend, because I'm a very new pilot and have never >built before. >What do I need to do to become a part of the kr-net. thanks alot > jon >dawson jonpegr1@aol.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jsellars@mon.auracom.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) From: "Steven Welebny" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:17:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Hello folks, I'm still narrowing my choices for an upcoming project. Forgive the 'dead horseness' of my post. I suspect there may have been many like it already. I'm still trying to figure out how to find the archive of e-mail postings so's I don't subject you real builders to such things. I have been reading web sites all over the place, and one common theme keeps presenting itself over and over, and that is pitch stability. The only reason I would build a KR is because I want to go far and fast cheaply. Family is in Florida, I'm here in New Hampshire. If you follow all the best construction advice out regarding weight and such, are LONG cross countries conceivable or an ordeal? Silly question number two: What sort of ballpark cruise figures are folks getting out of reasonably well constructed KR-2's with a stout VW (2180 seems popular). I like flying around 7500' or so, out of bumps and such. And now for something completely different. Silly question number three. Has anyone considered a tandem 1 and a half KR? Obviously with the CG problems of the design this may be impossible. But I only need the option to carry someone occasionally, if one were to use the KR-2 and narrow and lengthen it, could one realize a savings of weight in addition? I like the bubble of the KR-1 and imagine with some extra length and a wide enough fuselage, the rear passenger's legs could slide up alongside the pilot's seat. Passenger is short, weighs about 140 (although claims less). This could be a sort of 'buddy' seating arrangement. I would appreciate any responses. Steve Welebny Avonlea Farm NH Live Cheap or Die ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Jabiru Engine From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:53:17 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 Albert, The installed weight of 123lbs is the limiting factor in choosing a Jabiru 2200. Because he KR-2S was designed to balance with a 180lb engine, an already tailheavy-prone design becomes even worse. However, if you wanted to save that 57lbs off the weight of the plane, lengthen the fuselage forward of the spar by about ten inches, keeping the same firewall and cowling. You'll be glad for the extra space for your legs, and will position the lightweight little jewel further out. For each 50lbs of weight you trim off, you gain another 5-8knots of airspeed, and since the only VW producing the 80hp is the turbocharged engine, you'll be doing better than most VW powered KR's because few are turbo'd. The only KR's you'll see going 180mph though have an 0-200 on them. Few KR's cruise at 180mph ever. -Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) From: "WARRON GRAY" Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:00:34 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 Steve, my buds fly soobs and go consistently 170 's .and happy and heavy .Warron -----Original Message----- From: Steven Welebny To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:15 PM Subject: [kr-net] Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) >Hello folks, > >I'm still narrowing my choices for an upcoming project. Forgive the 'dead >horseness' of my post. I suspect there may have been many like it already. >I'm still trying to figure out how to find the archive of e-mail postings >so's I don't subject you real builders to such things. > >I have been reading web sites all over the place, and one common theme keeps >presenting itself over and over, and that is pitch stability. The only >reason I would build a KR is because I want to go far and fast cheaply. >Family is in Florida, I'm here in New Hampshire. If you follow all the best >construction advice out regarding weight and such, are LONG cross countries >conceivable or an ordeal? > >Silly question number two: What sort of ballpark cruise figures are folks >getting out of reasonably well constructed KR-2's with a stout VW (2180 >seems popular). I like flying around 7500' or so, out of bumps and such. > >And now for something completely different. Silly question number three. Has >anyone considered a tandem 1 and a half KR? Obviously with the CG problems >of the design this may be impossible. But I only need the option to carry >someone occasionally, if one were to use the KR-2 and narrow and lengthen >it, could one realize a savings of weight in addition? I like the bubble of >the KR-1 and imagine with some extra length and a wide enough fuselage, the >rear passenger's legs could slide up alongside the pilot's seat. Passenger >is short, weighs about 140 (although claims less). This could be a sort of >'buddy' seating arrangement. > >I would appreciate any responses. > >Steve Welebny >Avonlea Farm NH >Live Cheap or Die > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: warronflys@worldnet.att.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:48:07 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 HOW ABOUT A JR. ACE AIRPLANE GO TO EXP-AIRCRAFT.COM AND LOOK UP CORBEN ACE AIRPLANES WE MAKE A SIDE BY SIDE AND A SINGLE PLACE AIRPLANE. WE HAVE A SPECIAL PRICE ON NOW. R. W. MOORE MARKETING DIRECTOR, ACE AIRCRAFT, INC. -----Original Message----- From: WARRON GRAY To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 12:03 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) >Steve, my buds fly soobs and go consistently 170 's .and happy and heavy >.Warron >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven Welebny >To: KR-net users group >Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:15 PM >Subject: [kr-net] Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) > > >>Hello folks, >> >>I'm still narrowing my choices for an upcoming project. Forgive the 'dead >>horseness' of my post. I suspect there may have been many like it already. >>I'm still trying to figure out how to find the archive of e-mail postings >>so's I don't subject you real builders to such things. >> >>I have been reading web sites all over the place, and one common theme >keeps >>presenting itself over and over, and that is pitch stability. The only >>reason I would build a KR is because I want to go far and fast cheaply. >>Family is in Florida, I'm here in New Hampshire. If you follow all the best >>construction advice out regarding weight and such, are LONG cross countries >>conceivable or an ordeal? >> >>Silly question number two: What sort of ballpark cruise figures are folks >>getting out of reasonably well constructed KR-2's with a stout VW (2180 >>seems popular). I like flying around 7500' or so, out of bumps and such. >> >>And now for something completely different. Silly question number three. >Has >>anyone considered a tandem 1 and a half KR? Obviously with the CG problems >>of the design this may be impossible. But I only need the option to carry >>someone occasionally, if one were to use the KR-2 and narrow and lengthen >>it, could one realize a savings of weight in addition? I like the bubble of >>the KR-1 and imagine with some extra length and a wide enough fuselage, the >>rear passenger's legs could slide up alongside the pilot's seat. Passenger >>is short, weighs about 140 (although claims less). This could be a sort of >>'buddy' seating arrangement. >> >>I would appreciate any responses. >> >>Steve Welebny >>Avonlea Farm NH >>Live Cheap or Die >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: warronflys@worldnet.att.net >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tandem KR From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:58:58 EST X-Message-Number: 12 Today I was looking at the Web page for the Volksplane, which I read about in the August Kitplanes. This is hardly the plane for fast cross-country tours, but apparently in addition to the VP-1, there is also a VP-2, which may be tandem and is wood, unlike the Sonerai (which looks like a tandem KR would look, but is made out of tube & fabric). The changes in the Volksplane design might give ideas for turning the KR into a tandem. In addition, I noticed that Bud Evans, who designed the Volksplane, also publishes a book on aircraft design that he sells on his Web page. Has anybody seen this? Of course, the Volksplane is a much less ambitious plane than a KR, but Evans is a serious aeronautical designer (and of course, lived long enough to refine his ideas and write them down), so the book might be useful to KR modifiers. Mike Taglieri >>And now for something completely different. Silly question number >three. >Has >>anyone considered a tandem 1 and a half KR? Obviously with the CG >problems >>of the design this may be impossible. But I only need the option to >carry >>someone occasionally, if one were to use the KR-2 and narrow and >lengthen >>it, could one realize a savings of weight in addition? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Silly Questions (or a deceased equines) From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:14:34 -0800 X-Message-Number: 13 "R.W. Moore" wrote: > << AIRPLANES WE MAKE A SIDE BY SIDE AND A SINGLE PLACE AIRPLANE. WE HAVE A > SPECIAL PRICE ON NOW. > R. W. MOORE > MARKETING DIRECTOR,>>>> I realize this must seem like a great place to market your product but you might want to run this buy Ross Youngblood (list bossman). I don't think this falls in the appropriate material category for posting on the "KR" Net. Then again neither does 50% of the stuff here! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com