From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 12:09 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: January 05, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Tuesday, January 05, 1999. 1. Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 2. Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S 3. Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S 4. redrive vs direct drive 5. Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 6. Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) 7. Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) 8. Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) 9. Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 10. subarus vs VW vs anthing 11. Re: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 12. Progress on Christmas/new year break+epoxy question 13. Maintaining enthusiasm 14. Maintaining enthusiasm 15. Plywood finish 16. Personal Parachutes, The BRS, and the Art of Zen (kinda long) 17. KR gathering 18. Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) 19. Re: KR gathering 20. [Fwd: KRNET: FAQ page broken] 21. Re: redrive vs direct drive 22. Re: Plywood finish 23. Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing 24. Re: Plywood finish 25. Re: Plywood finish 26. feet staering 27. Re: feet staering 28. Re: Plywood finish 29. Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing 30. Welcome New Members 31. Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 32. Re: KR gathering 33. Auto engine conversion reliability 34. Re: Plywood finish 35. Re: Plywood finish 36. Re: KR gathering 37. Re: Plywood finish 38. cont 0-200 engine 39. Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S 40. Chute poll for flyers was(Personal Parachutes,,,) 41. KR2 Gathering 42. Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) 43. Re: Auto engine conversion reliability 44. Re: Plywood finish 45. RE: Plywood finish 46. Re: KR gathering 47. Re: Plywood finish 48. Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing 49. Re: Plywood finish 50. RE: Plywood finish 51. Fuel Tanks 52. Re: Plywood finish ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 02:56:11 PST X-Message-Number: 1 >However we had some threads on the minimum >chute altitude, which I think would be much lower with a BRS. I beleive the minimum altitude a BRS can safely deploy is only 50 feet. R ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:00:36 PST X-Message-Number: 2 >> <<< Its may not be the fastest KR but it will put me in the air cheaper >> than my Archer. If I want more speed afterwards I'll think about throwing >> on a redrive and lowering the motor mount or something else.>>>> > >I was under the impression that the redrive was designed to make the KR fly >slower! :o) >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims ????? I'm missing something. more torque = more pitch = more speed Rich ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S From: Olga Saunders Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 07:06:09 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 It's my understanding the redrive matches the power curve of the engine with the prop speed. Am I wrong? Mike > > >>> <<< Its may not be the fastest KR but it will put me in the air >cheaper >>> than my Archer. If I want more speed afterwards I'll think about >throwing >>> on a redrive and lowering the motor mount or something else.>>>> >> >>I was under the impression that the redrive was designed to make the KR >fly >>slower! :o) > >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims > >????? I'm missing something. > >more torque = more pitch = more speed > >Rich > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ods@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: redrive vs direct drive From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:42:10 -0000 X-Message-Number: 4 >????? I'm missing something. > >more torque = more pitch = more speed > >Rich Rich, Not taking sides here, but what you're missing in your equation is weight, which starts cancelling out stuff on the torque side. All things considered equal, it's also something else to fail, that wouldn't fail if it weren't there... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: NFCKR3@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:42:34 EST X-Message-Number: 5 In a message dated 99-01-04 23:21:31 EST, you write: << rwmoore@alltel.net (R.W. Moore) >> Yes that's me, I sold my Grumman AA1 and bought Don Betchan's KR2, 250KB. Boy is it fun! I still am Executive Director of the EOC and The Cessna 150-152 Club. I knew Ken Rand and bought one of the first sets of KR1 plans. In fact i still have a letter from him, he and his brother also owned an Ercoupe. Thanks for remembering SKip Carden ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) From: Krwr1@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:45:51 EST X-Message-Number: 6 In a message dated 1/4/99 11:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, WARRONFLYS@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > I used to skydive a few years back using a system called Vulcan. The > >chute is designed like a wing and it is maneuvarable by pulling a > I'm Going to add my 2 cents..If you can't handle an engine out emergency > than stay the hell on the ground you don't belong in the air in the first > place, been there done that (blew a cylinder head off on a "certified" 152 . > as far as frame failures if you can't trust your quality of building stay on > the ground you probably shouldn't fly anyway your project. Follow the damn > plans and you will be ok. as far as engines go , certified engines blow vw's > blow and probably soobs blow, so what learn how to fly the right way and > stop your whining. Warron > > AMEN BILL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) From: "Alessandro Pecorara" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:46:11 -0800 X-Message-Number: 7 Mike Mims wrote: > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > << > not save your bacon, many problems are fuel system related and occur on > > departure. > > Not a single KR has had an in flight structural failure and if it did, computer > analysis has shown > (thanks to Mark Lougheed) that the main spar would fail where it enters the > fuselage. In the KR accident summary posted by Ross Youngblood on 8 Jan.1998, I found three inflight canopy separations and two loss of control due to elevator cables or control horn failures. (three Fatal). Maybe they were "minor" structural failures, but not for the unlucky pilots.However I should like to know hpw many chances there are to be able to deploy the BRS, or open the canopy and bale out, in a madly spinning low-level KR! Regards, alessandro mailto:alessandro.pecorara@telecomitalia.it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) From: Donald Reid Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:52:56 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 WARRON GRAY wrote: > I'm Going to add my 2 cents..If you can't handle an engine out emergency > than stay the hell on the ground ....., so what learn how to fly the right way > and stop your whining. Warron So far, most everyone is missing the main point. I am planning on installing one because I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I have life insurance on myself and my wife and I don't expect to need it any time soon, but I still pay for it. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: Steven Eberhart Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:40:37 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 9 If Ken Rand had had a BRS in his plane on his last flight we would probably be building KR-5's or KR-10's right now. Steve Eberhart On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 NFCKR3@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-01-04 23:21:31 EST, you write: > > << rwmoore@alltel.net (R.W. Moore) > >> > Yes that's me, I sold my Grumman AA1 and bought Don Betchan's KR2, 250KB. Boy > is it fun! I still am Executive Director of the EOC and The Cessna 150-152 > Club. I knew Ken Rand and bought one of the first sets of KR1 plans. In fact i > still have a letter from him, he and his brother also owned an Ercoupe. > > Thanks for remembering > SKip Carden > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: newtech@newtech.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: subarus vs VW vs anthing From: jeb@thuntek.net Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 6:54:42 X-Message-Number: 10 This is getting pretty lively, remember what they say about opinions... I'll leave with - My turbo Soob is gonna cruise at 300 maybe 400 mph and make me hot coffee and be able to fly to Hawaii on $2 worth of gas. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:19:34 EST X-Message-Number: 11 In a message dated 1/5/99 8:41:20 AM, Steve Eberhart wrote: <> If anybody pays attention to the NTSB reports you will find a tremendous number of fatals due to "continued flight into IMC" and "improper fuel management", the leading causes of premature death among pilots. Since this list is comprised primarily of the finest and boldest pilots on this planet, who also happen to be the finest craftsmen as well, I guess there really is no need for BRS chutes. Hell, why even bother with a personal chute on your first flight. No way anything would ever happen to me. I wonder what the last thoughts going through a pilots mind are just prior to impact. Is it "I love my family", or is it "I wish I would have....." In a message dated 1/5/99 7:54:33 AM, Don Reid wrote: <> Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Progress on Christmas/new year break+epoxy question From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:40 EST X-Message-Number: 12 Folks, I was finally able to turn the boat right side up and block it just before Christmas. Due to travel I was not able to work on the project during the break a lot. However, I was able to glue the rear four top cross pieces, one of the top engine mount cross brace and a dozen or so of gussets. This week/weekend plan: Make and glue in second engine brace, glue in the two longeron doublers and add cockpit floor with rudder mount hard points. Oh, I forgot the gussets. Question: Is it OK to heat the work area and pieces to be glued to around 60 deg F and later let the epoxy (T-88) cure at around 40deg for 20 hrs before handling the joint. Thanks much Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Maintaining enthusiasm From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:00:31 CST X-Message-Number: 13 G Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Maintaining enthusiasm From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:25:13 CST X-Message-Number: 14 G'Day Builders Healthy & prosperous & good building New Year to all. Been there. Done that (getting discouraged with progress, because of pressing other duties) on my earlier, tornado-terminated KR project. Not only the lack of time, it was often hard to remember just where I was and what I wanted to do next. What saved me was a combination of two old construction techniques. (1). A list of all the activities that need to be carried out on a given part of the work and the order in which to carry them out, and (2). Adaptation of the old field construction foreman's "punch list", in which they would list the things in their field pocket notebook and punch a hole in each with a nail, or whatever, when completed. The Wing Attach Fittings, on which I am working now, provide and example. Use a sheet of ruled tablet paper for each significant effort. Put an 'O' in front of each specific part of the job and fill it in when that part is finished. The value of this is that you know exactly where you were and what you did last, plus what you want to do next. Saves lots of mental fumbling. Wing Attach Fittings O Determine numbers and sizes of different pieces needed. O Sketch out how pieces will be cut from steel available from supplier. O Obtain amount of 4130 needed. O Cut basic pieces O Layout and center punch locations for holes to be drilled O Drill bolt holes O Drill lightening holes O Deburr holes O Grit blast each piece, coat with paint or preservative, label and pack ready for use. I got 1-1/2" 4130 strap from Wicks for the front spar pieces, and am cutting the rear spar pieces from a slab of 6" x 36" 4130 also from Wicks. I actually have several subefforts under each of the items listed above so I don't wind up in a crunch from skipping a necessary step on the check list. Hope this might help someone. Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Plywood finish From: JKM001@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:32:29 EST X-Message-Number: 15 Hello all. As you may recall I sent a mail out about a month or so ago asking about covering the wings with plywood instead of glassing them. I had considered using a coat of resin over them to help cover the joints and also get a smooth finish, but after talking to the folks at RR yesterday I was told that resin would add too much weight. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should use? Regards Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Personal Parachutes, The BRS, and the Art of Zen (kinda long) From: EagleGator@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:18:59 EST X-Message-Number: 16 Here are a couple of thoughts for those of you trying to make this decision, sorry if this is repeat information for most of you. I won't debate the virtues of using a chute vs. riding the airplane in, I assume you've already made up your mind on this. However, take a good look at why you are thinking about chutes (just first flight or for continuing protection). There are some questions you might want to consider when thinking about emergency recovery systems. Personal Parachute 1. Have I ever used one before? 2. Can I physically get out of my airplane while it is in flight? 3. How long will it take me to get out of the airplane? 4. How high do I need to open the chute to ensure I get at least one swing under the canopy before I hit the ground? 5. Considering #3 and #4, at what altitude do I have to make my bailout decision and take action (consider the variables of attitude and airspeed, use worse case [nose low, high speed] to be conservative, and best case [straight and level, 100 mph, with a fire that's going to kill you])? BRS 1. How confident am I with the method of securing the system to my aircraft? 2. At what altitude do I have to deploy the chute, best case and worse case? 3. What effect is the advertised vertical velocity at impact going to have on my body in a sitting position inside my KR? 4. What type of terrain am I going to be flying over? (Slamming into the side of a mountain inside your airplane drifting on the turbulent mountain air currents under a non-maneuverable chute isn't a good thing) Both systems have their merits and downfalls. The BRS is easy to deploy and has been demonstrated to be effective in many types of aircraft at many different flight parameters. However, as has been mentioned, the BRS is not maneuverable and you are along for the ride. The one emergency that comes to mind where a BRS would be of no use would be an onboard catastrophic fire, I'm sure you can think of more. The personal parachute is more versatile in that you can get away from a bad airplane and have some control on your flight under the canopy. However, you should know how to use one (i.e. have experience skydiving/parasailing), be able to get out of the cockpit quickly, and you will have to make your decision to bail out at a higher altitude that you would to deploy a BRS (first look guess, I haven't done the analysis yet). Your physical condition should be considered also. How prone to injury are you from a parachute landing? I haven't made my personal decision yet. My first choice will most likely be a personal chute, if I can devise a reliable way to jettison the canopy inflight, and I'll wear it based on the type of testing I'm doing on each sortie. However, if the CG works out and I have the money, a BRS would be a good insurance policy to get both me and my passenger back on the ground if I have a catastrophic failure later down the road. It could happen. As always, just my opinion. Hope this helps someone. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR gathering From: Jaccoo@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:14:44 EST X-Message-Number: 17 Can someone give some details about the next KR gathering at Kentucky Dam? Date, Where Kentucky Dam is located, web address and any other important info. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (plane parachute) From: Ross Youngblood Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 >WARRON GRAY wrote: >So what learn how to fly the right way and >stop your whining. Warron A parachute may come in handy for situations such as: -- Mid-Air collision. -- Bird Strikes (Destroying canopy). -- Flutter during flight testing/exceeding Vne. (I haven't heard of this on a KR). -- Failure of primary control system. My discussion of engine failure was to highlight that loss of power is MORE common than the above, and to underscore that a parachute may not be of much use in many of those situations. I did not consider the thread on parachutes to be whining. Learning to fly the right way, should reduce the probability of a mid-air collision, and help you see and avoid birds for bird strikes, and keep you away of Vne to prevent Flutter. So there is a lot to be said for spending $2000 on flight instruction over $2000 for a parachute. So in a sense, I agree with you. However I think that it is perfectly acceptable to discuss the merits of parachutes vs BRS on the net. Cars have airbags. -- Ross -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:44:53 EST X-Message-Number: 19 In a message dated 1/5/99 1:16:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jaccoo@aol.com writes: << Can someone give some details about the next KR gathering >> The next gathering is at Lake Barkley State Park. It is far western Kentucky on the twin lakes. The dates are Friday, September 24 through Sunday, September 26. The phone is 1-800-325-1708. After I get off work today, I'll post some web links. In the mean time, Ross has a link to their web site on the KRnet site. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [Fwd: KRNET: FAQ page broken] From: Ross Youngblood Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:03:47 -0800 X-Message-Number: 20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F8D27AF7F1C5E0F8349FC656 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Questions from a new member. -- Enjoy Ross --------------F8D27AF7F1C5E0F8349FC656 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mail1 for krnet (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Tue Jan 5 11:46:08 1999) X-From_: fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Thu Dec 31 18:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: krnet@teleport.com Received: (qmail 19286 invoked by uid 10244); 31 Dec 1998 18:54:59 -0000 Delivered-To: krnet+krnet.org-X-krnet@krnet.org Received: (qmail 19275 invoked from network); 31 Dec 1998 18:54:58 -0000 Received: from mailhost.datashare.net (HELO postit.datashare.net) (root@209.197.132.10) by smtp7.teleport.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 1998 18:54:58 -0000 Received: from cuug.ab.ca (berlin.datashare.net [209.197.132.11]) by postit.datashare.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA24067 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:44:52 -0700 Sender: doug@datashare.net Message-ID: <368BCAC6.28F776A9@cuug.ab.ca> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:04:39 -0700 From: Doug Fortune X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.27 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krnet@krnet.org Subject: KRNET: FAQ page broken Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The link to your KR2 FAQ page appears broken : http://www.krnet.org/krnet_FAQ.htm I'm joining your email list, but for now I'm interested in the following KR2 info (sorry if it covers old ground!): (You can post this to the maillist...) - the 1998 Dec Kitplanes lists the KR2 at Vne 200/ Vcr 180 - is this really true? - for what engine, payloads & fuel load? - two new engines look like a good combination - 80 HP Verner SVS-1400 2 gph @ 3500rpm (75% == 60 HP) 4stroke/2cyl/96ftlb/8valve OHC /belt reduction http://www.teleport.com/~zlinak 503-233-6848 looks almost too good to be true! - 60 HP HKS-700E 60 HORSEPOWER @ 6200 RPM (3 MINS) 3.4 GALLONS-HOUR @ 4200 RPM (75%) 52 FT. LBS. TORQUE @ 4200 RPM (75%) 116 lbs/2 cyl/ gear reduction/elec start/ dual electric ignition/ 4 valves per cyl http://www.hpower-ltd.com 860-875-8185 Comments? Doug Fortune, Calgary --------------F8D27AF7F1C5E0F8349FC656-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: redrive vs direct drive From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:25:35 PST X-Message-Number: 21 >Rich, > >Not taking sides here, but what you're missing in your equation is weight, >which starts cancelling out stuff on the torque side. All things considered >equal, it's also something else to fail, that wouldn't fail if it weren't >there... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama Yes. Thats why I'm using the direct drive (and having my microballoons filled with helium) Rich ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:34:31 PST X-Message-Number: 22 I'd Ask the Pulsar guys what they use. They use wood skins. Rich Parker >From: JKM001@aol.com >Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:32:29 EST >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Plywood finish >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >Hello all. As you may recall I sent a mail out about a month or so ago asking >about covering the wings with plywood instead of glassing them. >I had considered using a coat of resin over them to help cover the joints and >also get a smooth finish, but after talking to the folks at RR yesterday I was >told that resin would add too much weight. Does anyone have any suggestions as >to what I should use? > >Regards >Keith > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing From: "WARRON GRAY" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:44:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 23 I'll give my amen to the soob, any soob Warron -----Original Message----- From: jeb@thuntek.net To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:55 AM Subject: [kr-net] subarus vs VW vs anthing > This is getting pretty lively, >remember what they say about opinions... >I'll leave with - My turbo Soob is gonna >cruise at 300 maybe 400 mph and make me >hot coffee and be able to fly to Hawaii >on $2 worth of gas. >:) > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: warronflys@worldnet.att.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "WARRON GRAY" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:42:31 -0500 X-Message-Number: 24 -----Original Message----- From: JKM001@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:35 AM Subject: [kr-net] Plywood finish >Hello all. As you may recall I sent a mail out about a month or so ago asking >about covering the wings with plywood instead of glassing them. >I had considered using a coat of resin over them to help cover the joints and use what the plans say foam and glass unless you too want to use a brs chute?Warron ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "Tom Rehl" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:10:59 -0600 X-Message-Number: 25 Are there any alternatives to using sitka spruce that might be more = accesible on the local market? I surely hope the only place to get spruce = (or a quality acceptable alternative) isn't Aircraft Spruce and Supply. I = just don't like mail order.... I didn't even like waiting for my last set = of plans.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: feet staering From: "Stefan den Boer" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:31:22 +0100 X-Message-Number: 26 Hi folks, Here in Holland are the drawings bad. Is there someone who can send me or give me the name of the website wich contains clear information about the feet-staering (rudder-peddels). Thanks, Stef den Boer (dutch-guy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: feet staering From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:50:13 -0000 X-Message-Number: 27 Stef, Check out http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcontrol.html for some fairly detailed rudder pedal installation photos, although it's not quite per plans... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:04:54 PST X-Message-Number: 28 2X4's >Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:10:59 -0600 >From: "Tom Rehl" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Plywood finish >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >Are there any alternatives to using sitka spruce that might be more = >accesible on the local market? I surely hope the only place to get spruce = >(or a quality acceptable alternative) isn't Aircraft Spruce and Supply. I = >just don't like mail order.... I didn't even like waiting for my last set = >of plans.... > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:23:04 EST X-Message-Number: 29 What year subaru EA-81 engine is best for aircraft use? Any in particular?. I have 2 EA-82's and 2 EA-81's, one turbo. I am building a KR2S. thanks ,Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Welcome New Members From: "Ross Youngblood" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:37:43 X-Message-Number: 30 I just finished adding all the members who have been pending approval since the holidays. Welcome! As of Jan 1st the old majordomo list is no longer up. Please post all your messages to kr-net@telelists.com Also if you want to Change your subscription go to http://www.krnet.org and click on the kr icon to go to the web account management page. You can change just about anything about your account you wish. However the "list" moms have to approve new members. When I checked this morning we were at 312 members! Welcome! -- Regards Ross Youngblood List Mom/Admin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:51:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 31 Mike, The certified aircraft will all sooner or later have a STC for a BRS but who really wants to retrofit expensive safety hardware into 20 year old (or more) airplanes? Where the allure of the BRS will pay off is in new aircraft sales like the Cirrus 300. (And in new KR's). Also, people just haven't realized that the ballistic chute is a working technology, not experimental anymore. Just about every non-aviator I've ever described the BRS to has said "Why can't they make them for the big planes (airliners)?" Most pilots look at it as a gimmick. They long ago accepted all the risks of flying and the ones that have survived feel invincible now :) -Tom >I agree these are all good reasons to install a BRS but, (here goes) any of >these things could happen in a certified aircraft and I don't exactly see hoards >of folks running out to install them on their Beechcrafts, Cessnas, Pipers, >etc.. Guys just because its certified in the eXperimental category don't get >caught up in the mindset that it is more likely to crash! > >>-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:42 EST X-Message-Number: 32 Here are some web links to Lake Barkley State Resort Park, the site of the 1999 KR Gathering. http://www.lakebarkley.org/ http://www.state.ky.us/agencies/parks/lakebark/htm The first one is sponsored by the Lyon Co. tourism department, the second by the state. I'm getting ready to send RR flyers to go out with all the info packs she sends out. This is the first time (not counting you, Bob:-) that the host is an "old timer" from the KRnet..................so, let's plan on attending and bring whatever you have, be it boat, spars, instrument panel, whatever. Someone will be interested in what you have to show and will learn from you. That's the idea of this thing. You guys who are installing engines other the ol tried and true VW, bring your firewall forward, you guys going the BRS, bring some pictures of your attachment points along, man someone will benefit from it. You new guys will soon learn I can flat out get on a soapbox..........................and then jump back into my foxhole to avoid "friendly fire" just ask Mims :-). When it gets a little closer, I'll be asking you new guys what you would to see in the way of forums. I hope to go from basic woodworking all the way to your first flight with forums, nothing big but just to answer some questions for the newer builders. Lake Barkley offers boating, tennis, swimming, golf, fishing all on the grounds, oh did I mention...............the airport is on the resort property...........so it should offer something for the entire family. Date Sept. 24-26 Phone 1800-325-1798 Your must mention that your reservation is for the 1999 KR Gathering to get the group discount. You'll get tired of hearing my repeat this. Oh, by the way.............isn't another Langfordkosh about due????? Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Auto engine conversion reliability From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:08:27 -0500 X-Message-Number: 33 Mike, The "Subaru exclusion" was actually an exception to Avemco's denial of all auto conversions, with Stratus Soobs and GPASC VW's the only auto conversions that CAN qualify for hull insurance. Liability insurance can still be had with any engine. I think with any moving parts you can find instances of failures. Even the revered Lycomings and Continentals have a myriad of AD's borne out of failures. I kinda like the way the injectors have worked on my car but of course I'm not running my car at 80% power for hours on end either. Note that even the aviation manufacturers are getting on the fuel injection bandwagon. And GAMI-jectors are retrofits for the dinosaurs. -Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: JKM001@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:15:00 EST X-Message-Number: 34 I can get Douglas Fir locally, which is a FAA approved substitute to spruce. Be sure that you have 6 growth rings per inch and a 15:1 divergence. Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "Steven Welebny" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:17:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 35 Saaay... What's all this I hear about plywood? If somebody doesn't mind, I would very much like to hear how this works. What provides the understructure for the plywood in the wings? Not foam ribs? How are they built up? Any details greatly appreciated. A mostly wood KR? Still undecided between KR-2 and Sonerai, but getting closer. Now I find the KR's wings might be made to fold too. This isn't easy. Thanks, Steve Welebny Avonlea Farm NH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:44:05 EST X-Message-Number: 36 Kentucky Dam is located in Kentucky! Heh Heh! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: JKM001@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:20:48 EST X-Message-Number: 37 To do this you will have to loft a set of ribs for the ply to adhere to. I thought of the idea, which i thought was original, but Steve Benett at Great Plains has done it also. Regards Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: cont 0-200 engine From: "Rod Kelso" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:16:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 38 Hi all, Does anyone have a used engine mount for my KR2 that will fit a 0-200 engine? Does anyone have a Cont 0-200 builder engine for sale? Both need to be reasonablely price. Thanks, Rod Kelso. e-mail privatly pls. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: FS: Foam kit for KR-2S From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:31:33 -0800 X-Message-Number: 39 Richard Parker wrote: > < > more torque = more pitch = more speed > > Rich>>> Ever see one fly? If no then yes you are missing something. And they call my bird a pig! Oink Oink!! :o) Seriously you are right IF the engine is capable of turning the max RPM. Seems that some redrives (for what ever reason) only allow the engine to turn up to 4000 or 4500 max. With a reduction of 2 to 1 or even 1.8 to 1 the prop rpm on a 60" warp drive is way to slow thus the prop efficiency drops as well as max HP. Just my observations but the DD EA81 with a turbo works better on high speed airplanes with short props. Remember for a prop to be considered to be operating at max efficiency the tips speed must be very close to supersonic at take off (words from two VERY successful prop builders). With a 1.8 to 1 redrive you would need 6000 to 6500 engine RPMs to get the prop where it needs to be to work right. (3300 prop RPM on a 60 inch is about right) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Chute poll for flyers was(Personal Parachutes,,,) From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:42:05 -0800 X-Message-Number: 40 EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > < sorry if this is repeat information for most of you. I won't debate the virtues > of using a chute vs. riding the airplane in, I assume you've already made up > your mind on this. >>> Good info here Rick! Just for kicks how many of you KR flyers on the net used a chute at all? For those of us who have never faced having to GET out of our airplane it aint as easy as opening the door and jumping. Fighter pilots are trained, trained and trained again and they will all tell you they hate the idea of having to jump (punch out) of the airplane. That has to be one tough decision that I bet 99% of us could not make in time. Someone mentioned life insurance, will it cover you if you are at the controls of an experimental plane during its testing phase? Seriously, I think most people don't realize that most life insurance policies will not pay off under these circumstances. I just pray that no one on this list test any of these theory's! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR2 Gathering From: "Rod Kelso" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:44:42 -0700 X-Message-Number: 41 Yea and I bet that the Kentucky Derby is held in Kentucky some where. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ballistic recovery system (Safety device) From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:45:36 -0800 X-Message-Number: 42 Tom Andersen wrote: > << technology, not experimental anymore. Most pilots look at it as a > gimmick.>>> I think your right on here because that's mostly how I view it (that was obvious huh? :o) ) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Auto engine conversion reliability From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:47:40 -0800 X-Message-Number: 43 Tom Andersen wrote: > << all auto conversions, with Stratus Soobs and GPASC VW's the only auto > conversions that CAN qualify for hull insurance. >>> No disagreement here, they can all quit running at anytime and they do once in a while. My point was there are some pretty sketchy subaru converters out there so do your home work. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:52:31 -0800 X-Message-Number: 44 Steven Welebny wrote: > <<< Now I find the KR's wings might be made to fold too. This isn't easy.>>> Those of you considering this "wing folding technology" should really take another look. It requires the same amount of work as actually REMOVING the wings and if you have ever watched someone remove and install wings on a KR its not something you should plan on doing all the time. Even RR told me once that if your planning to install and take them off every time you fly you may be disappointed. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Plywood finish From: Ron Freiberger Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 23:01:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 45 You should use 45 degree plywood (very expensive), with scarfed joints as needed to cover the wing. The, paint it with Stits Poly-Brush. Apply a fabric 1.6 or 2.7 ounce dacron. Apply more polybrush through the fabic so that the fabric is captured in the Polybrush material. Then, finish as any fabric covered airplane. You will not have saved time or money, but you can have an excellent wing. Reference Cassutt and Whitman's various wings. This process ought to be used on KR fuselages. It prevents grain checking and small cracks. It's easier to do initially than later when service problems occur. Been there, done that with my Jodel D11. Ron Freiberger ... escaped blizzard 99 and now in Fort Myers > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-kr-net-19348@telelists.com > [mailto:bounce-kr-net-19348@telelists.com]On Behalf Of JKM001@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:32 AM > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Plywood finish > > > Hello all. As you may recall I sent a mail out about a month or > so ago asking > about covering the wings with plywood instead of glassing them. > I had considered using a coat of resin over them to help cover > the joints and > also get a smooth finish, but after talking to the folks at RR > yesterday I was > told that resin would add too much weight. Does anyone have any > suggestions as > to what I should use? > > Regards > Keith > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronald.freiberger@cwix.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR gathering From: Jaccoo@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:02:27 EST X-Message-Number: 46 Dana Thanks for the KR gathering info Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 23:10:37 EST X-Message-Number: 47 <<< Now I find the KR's wings might be made to fold too. This isn't >easy.>>> The Sonerai has folding wings because the original designer intended it that way. On the KR there's a contraption that someone cooked up to put folding wings on a plane that was never intended to have folding wings. Both of these planes have pros and cons, but if folding wings is a major priority for you, the Sonerai design seems a lot more sensible as a choice. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing From: "WARRON GRAY" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:28:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 48 The ea 81 is best, turbo is ok but heavier.the 1984 comes with solid or hydraulic lifters earlier use solids. My soob is a hydraulic setup.Warron -----Original Message----- From: CruzJ12@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 5:25 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: subarus vs VW vs anthing >What year subaru EA-81 engine is best for aircraft use? Any in particular?. I >have 2 EA-82's and 2 EA-81's, one turbo. I am building a KR2S. thanks ,Joe > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: warronflys@worldnet.att.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: jscott.pilot@juno.com (Jeffrey E Scott) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:02:07 -0700 X-Message-Number: 49 I would suggest the same filler demoed at the KR Gathering by a couple of our KRNet members. Don't recall what it was called, but I'm sure someone will chime in with it. I finished the sides of my KR by spraying heavily with a laquer based primer then scrubbing it into the wood grain with MEK. Sand, shoot another coat of primer then sand off all the excess until smooth. It worked very well on the birch ply on my boat. Filled in all the staple holes nicks and wood grain. Major nicks in the wood were first touched up with spot putty then sanded smooth. The scarf joints were first touched up with West epoxy and microballoons. I don't see any reason why the same process wouldn't work on a wooden wing skin as well. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213W construction and first flight at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kjeffs.html http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krpage.htm On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:32:29 EST JKM001@aol.com writes: >Hello all. As you may recall I sent a mail out about a month or so ago >asking >about covering the wings with plywood instead of glassing them. >I had considered using a coat of resin over them to help cover the >joints and >also get a smooth finish, but after talking to the folks at RR >yesterday I was >told that resin would add too much weight. Does anyone have any >suggestions as >to what I should use? > >Regards >Keith > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jscott.pilot@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Plywood finish From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:32:31 -0800 X-Message-Number: 50 Ron Freiberger wrote: > > You should use 45 degree plywood (very expensive), with scarfed joints as > needed to cover the wing. The, paint it with Stits Poly-Brush. Apply a > fabric 1.6 or 2.7 ounce dacron. Apply more polybrush through the fabic so > that the fabric is captured in the Polybrush material. Then, finish as any > fabric covered airplane. > This process ought to be used on KR fuselages. It prevents grain checking > and small cracks. ---------------- Yes this will work. However, I used .5 oz glass cloth with epoxy on the fuselage and plan to finish with standard paint. If you do not keep the plane outside in the weather you could just paint it but as Ron mentions you will get small checks and cracks in the wood and finish. For what it is worth. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field -------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fuel Tanks From: Douglas Dorfmeier Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:05:30 -0800 X-Message-Number: 51 I have been debating what to do for fuel tanks in my KR2S project. I am planning on using Diehl wing skins and am leaning toward using wing tanks only (no header tank). The plan is to utilize the space between the first two wing ribs of the outer wing between the spars blocking off the aft portion by about 4 inches with foam covered with 2bid cloth. I suspect this should allow me to carry about 10 gallons of fuel in each wing and minimize variances on CG for different fuel levels. All feedback would greatly appreciated. I am especially courious about how to treat the rib that will be in the middle of the fuel tank area. Doug Dorfmeier Concord, Calif. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood finish From: "George P. Bell" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:15:34 -0800 X-Message-Number: 52 I think Douglas Fir needs 8 growth rings per inch for aircraft use. George Bell Huntington Beach, CA JKM001@aol.com wrote: > I can get Douglas Fir locally, which is a FAA approved substitute to spruce. > Be sure that you have 6 growth rings per inch and a 15:1 divergence. > > Keith > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: gpbell@jps.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com