From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 12:08 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: January 16, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, January 16, 1999. 1. Fwd: trim servos 2. Re: New airfoils 3. Re: Wing Tanks 4. Re: New airfoils 5. Re: New airfoils 6. Re: KR-2S Request for info 7. Rob Matthews 8. Re: Keyboard "P" problem (Was Re: New airfoils) 9. Re: New airfoils 10. more airfoil stuff 11. Re: Cabin Heat 12. Re: Cabin Heat 13. Tanks 14. Tanks 15. Re: Cabin Heat Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This is a forward, so please do not post to the KRnet but directly to him. I installed a MAC in my plane but I know some of you have gone the RC servo route. Could you give this guy a hand. Dana tierra@ozline.net writes: << someone mentioned a while back,the idea of using r/c servos to control trim tab movement.my local r/c shop really couldn't help me out with a wiring set-up.could someone e-mail me direct with some direction on this?it's a heck of an idea,sure beats $150.00 for a mac servo. thanks,(dana,if this is not the way to post to the net,could you please forward?) gerald jones port richey,fl. >> --part0_916493954_boundary Content-ID: <0_916493954@inet_out.mail.ozline.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v56.22) with SMTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:23:17 -0500 Received: from mainserver.ozline (NS1.ozline.net [207.115.243.201]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id SAA06129 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:23:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcustomer (ppp42.ozline.net [207.115.243.141]) by mainserver.ozline with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id CN7Y9C53; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:24:46 -0500 From: "Gerald & Sharon" To: Subject: trim servos Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: <01be40dd$e084c420$8df373cf@pcustomer> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable someone mentioned a while back,the idea of using r/c servos to control tri= m tab movement.my local r/c shop really couldn't help me out with a wiring set-up.could someone e-mail me direct with some direction on this?it's a heck of an idea,sure beats $150.00 for a mac servo. thanks,(dana,if this is not the way to post to th= e net,could you please forward?) gerald jones port richey,fl. --part0_916493954_boundary-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New airfoils From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:58:23 EST X-Message-Number: 2 In a message dated 1/15/99 9:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikemims@home.com writes: << Also the development and wind tunnel testing of this airfoil was completely funded but users here on KRnet! That's pretty darn cool if you ask me! You guys who are just starting construction have the opportunity to use an airfoil created in the 1990s and that's a really nice option. >> You will notice that Mike mentioned "wind tunnel tested". Steve Eberhart built up wing panels that were subjected to wind tunnel analysis. All of the numbers that were derived from the maximum allowable parameters of the wind tunnel matched the computer modeling done on the wing. It's the real deal. I plan on flying mine with the wing I have on it and probably the next winter, rip it all out and go the 16%. If I were starting from scratch, the 18% would be my choice. For you who have not yet built your spars, it is easily adapted into your construction. As Mike said, RR will not endorse this, but then again she says it is not pitch sensitive...........of which I'm also doing something about. Dana Overall Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing Tanks From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:34:33 EST X-Message-Number: 3 Thankyou, I guess thats all we need to know about that tank.Now if we could just find someone who could build this type of tank to our wing specks. There is nothing wrong with that kind of plastic. If it is installed properly it will outlast the plane. Don Clarke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New airfoils From: Ron Freiberger Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:22:12 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 Can we have a co-ordinate set posted on the KRNET? Both 16 and 18? I'm ready to buil wings. Ron Freiberger -----Original Message----- From: bounce-kr-net-19348@telelists.com [mailto:bounce-kr-net-19348@telelists.com] On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 1:39 AM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: New airfoils > Where can I get the profile for the "16%" version. >-since my stubs are built to the original RAF profile it seems I would have ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New airfoils From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:41:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 Mark Thanks for the comeback. I think I will stick with the RAF airfoil for now. I have enoough of a roblem adating the KR 2 sars to the KR-2s wing lanform. I like the work you and the guys have done on the new wing and will certainly kee an eye on what you are doing. Wouldnt it be easier to just list the coordinates on the net and let eole draw their own rofiles. Caveat emtor. Damn my keyboard has gone TU. It wont rint one letter and some caitals. SRI--- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: New airfoils Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 1:39 AM > Where can I get the profile for the "16%" version. >-since my stubs are built to the original RAF profile it seems I would have >to taper into the new profile over a couple of feet or so. Has RR reviewed >this or are we in a world of our own. What sort of performance changes >might I expect for such a hybrid bird. I can plot you a set of templates for the 16% version, but I don't want to do that too many times before somebody flies it first. The airfoil is too different from the RAF 48 to try to graft it it on and try to transition it. Besides that, your root incidence should be set to 1 degree for the new wing anyway (rather than the previous 3.5 degrees), requiring that the aft spar be moved upward about 1.5". If I were going to use the new wing on an old KR2, I'd remove all glass and foam from the stub wings (leaving main spar in place) and start over, moving the aft spar up as well. That sounds harder than it is, considering the aft spar is glued in a fairly simple manner. The tapers on the two spars are similar on the main spar, but different on the top of the aft spar, but you'd be adding new material there anyway. This upgrade would probably be too much work for a flying KR2, but for those who worry about wing integrity on an older plane and want to rebuild them anyway, it makes a lot more sense. Planform and aileron/hinge locations would all remain the same as the stock configuration. RR will quickly tell you that they know nothing of this wing, and don't sanction its use in any way, and would almost certainly discourage it. Of course, they are selling wing skins for $4200 a set. You'd be using the new airfoil at your own risk, but given it's pedigree, that doesn't bother me. There is far more technical information regarding aerodynamic characteristics available on the AS 504x series than there ever will be for the RAF48, unless you count flying airplanes... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S Request for info From: Ross Youngblood Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:51:25 -0800 X-Message-Number: 6 Jurgen, You need to send some $$ to Rand Robinson for an information kit. Follow the Rand Robinson link at http://www.krnet.org for the address and price. You can also subscribe to the KR-net email list and chat with other KR-netters. I will forward your email to the list. -- Regards Ross > Giel van Guppen wrote: > > Hi there, > > My name is Jurgen Janssens and i'de like to know, if possible, more > about the beautiful plane, the KR-2s. > > I'am an enthousiast trike pilot at this moment and member of a display > team of 5 planes. > We are looking for something new, can jou e-mail me all the > information that i need to become a kr-2s builder, or much more > important, a kr-2s PILOT > > Thanx, > > Jurgen Janssens > imke@worldonline.nl > The Netherlands (Europe) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Rob Matthews From: Kobus de wet Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:56:49 +0200 X-Message-Number: 7 Sorry about this use of bandwidth, but I need the E-mail address of Rob Matthews to contact him. Rob Please contact me off net on my personal E-Mail address. Regards Kobus de Wet Cape Town South Africa GMT +2 http:\\www.home.intekom.com/kobusdw ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Keyboard "P" problem (Was Re: New airfoils) From: Ron Lee Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:18:42 -0700 X-Message-Number: 8 I suspect that he has a problem with his "P" key. Is the current philosophy to provide templates of the airfoils at some price to help defray the costs of the test program. Ron Lee At 12:41 PM 1/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >Mark Thanks for the comeback. I think I will stick with the RAF airfoil >for now. I have enoough of a roblem adating the KR 2 sars to the KR-2s wing >lanform. I like the work you and the guys have done on the new wing and >will certainly kee an eye on what you are doing. Wouldnt it be easier to >just list the coordinates on the net and let eole draw their own rofiles. >Caveat emtor. Damn my keyboard has gone TU. It wont rint one letter and >some caitals. SRI--- >From: Mark Langford >To: KR-net users group >Subject: [kr-net] Re: New airfoils >Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 1:39 AM > >> Where can I get the profile for the "16%" version. >>-since my stubs are built to the original RAF profile it seems I would >have >>to taper into the new profile over a couple of feet or so. Has RR >reviewed >>this or are we in a world of our own. What sort of performance changes >>might I expect for such a hybrid bird. > >I can plot you a set of templates for the 16% version, but I don't want to >do that too many times before somebody flies it first. The airfoil is too >different from the RAF 48 to try to graft it it on and try to transition >it. >Besides that, your root incidence should be set to 1 degree for the new >wing >anyway (rather than the previous 3.5 degrees), requiring that the aft spar >be moved upward about 1.5". > > If I were going to use the new wing on an old KR2, I'd remove all glass >and >foam from the stub wings (leaving main spar in place) and start over, >moving >the aft spar up as well. That sounds harder than it is, considering the >aft >spar is glued in a fairly simple manner. The tapers on the two spars are >similar on the main spar, but different on the top of the aft spar, but >you'd be adding new material there anyway. This upgrade would probably be >too much work for a flying KR2, but for those who worry about wing >integrity >on an older plane and want to rebuild them anyway, it makes a lot more >sense. > >Planform and aileron/hinge locations would all remain the same as the stock >configuration. > >RR will quickly tell you that they know nothing of this wing, and don't >sanction its use in any way, and would almost certainly discourage it. Of >course, they are selling wing skins for $4200 a set. You'd be using the >new airfoil at your own risk, but given it's pedigree, that doesn't bother >me. There is far more technical information regarding aerodynamic >characteristics available on the AS 504x series than there ever will be for >the RAF48, unless you count flying airplanes... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronlee@pcisys.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New airfoils From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:44:46 -0600 X-Message-Number: 9 Ron Freiberger wrote: > Can we have a co-ordinate set posted on the KRNET? Both 16 and > 18? I'm ready > to buil wings. Well, like I said, the University of Illinois folks who designed the airfoil requested that we not publish the coordinates until somebody successfully flies with the airfoil first. At that point, I and they will post them immediately. While I'm not always successful, I usually try to keep my word. Having said that, I accidently posted them to KRNet earlier this year (hint, hint). Those of you who are wondering if I plan on selling these later would be correct. I figure a full set of airfoil templates, along with all the airfoil templates for the vertical and horizontal stabilizer (REAL airfoils!), and mounting instructions should be worth about $100. That's three main wing templates per wing (two stub, one tip) for a total of 12 airfoils all together. You glue these to plywood and cut along the dotted line. You can't take the CAD file to a print shop and have it done for that, I don't think, and there's something to be said for running a 3rd order bspline curve thru the points too. They are far superior to what's in the plans, which were obviously done with a french curve. And you only get one copy of the airfoil in the plans, which makes it kinda tough to cut four plywood ribs for the two stubwings with. Steve Eberhart was making noises about building wing skins for this airfoil at one time, although I'm not sure if he's still planning to or not. It would certainly be a service to the KR community if he did. Anybody that wants to argue about this offline should email directly, rather than waste other KRNetters' time reading it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: more airfoil stuff From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:54:02 -0600 X-Message-Number: 10 Ron Lee wrote: >Is the current philosophy to provide templates of the airfoils at some >price to help defray the costs of the test program. Several KRNetters funded the wind tunnel tests and test speciman construction and are entitled to a free set of plots whenever they need them (Ron's among them, I think). Steve Eberhart did an incredible job of building 3 small airfoil wings for the tests. He brought them to the Columbia get-together and Perry Gathering and amazed us all, and I hope he brings them to Kentucky this year. All money that we collected went to pay for the wind tunnel time and Steve's construction materials. He has since declared his bills paid, but was thinking about testing a composite spar next, although I'm not sure how that's going. I think he's off on business right now, or he'd be in the middle of this discussion too. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: Alastair Hawkins Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:16:43 -0800 X-Message-Number: 11 I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the VW, for cabin heat. Alastair Hawkins Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: Ron Freiberger Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:38:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 12 Yes, you'll get plenty when you don't want it, and very little when you do -----Original Message----- I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the VW, for cabin heat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Tanks From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:50:10 EST X-Message-Number: 13 OkGuys, I have the specks! "TEAM Co"The tank is 13.1875" wide, 18.6250 long" and 5.50000 tall which means, according to my measurements, it will fit in the inboard area of the outboard wing with a good 1 1/4" to spare on top and 1/2" on the bottom next to the front spar and 1/2" to the rear of the tank. It would have to be installed with the 18" dimensions along the spar. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Tanks From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:57:15 EST X-Message-Number: 14 I am trying to come up with a drawing I can send to you all by way of attachment but my scanner is not working properly for some reason. So I will draw it in my cheap Cad program and see if I can send it that way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For those of you who can do so, download this attachment. 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Q28iIFBsYXN0aWMgV2luZyBUYW5rLgAAAAAAAAD1/wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADVDb3VyaWVy IE5ldwD/MpZ/dykEAAAAAAAAAHcpsX9ySwGQ --part0_916529368_boundary-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR in Staten Island, NY From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:31:08 EST X-Message-Number: 17 >I would recommend that you use a spade bit and drill a 1/2 inch hole or so in >the shear web and then just take a sniff. You will know for sure if he >varnished the inside just from the smell. I also think taking it apart would >do more damage than just leaving it as it is. I don't think anyone would >build the spar in such a manor that it would fail. Remember he at one time >had planned on flying this beast himself! Drilling a hole is an interesting idea, and with a dental inspection mirror I could also take a look to see if the webs alternate properly in thickness and touch both sides (or don't) as they're supposed to do. Then I could cut disks to cover the holes, tapering them to prevent stress risers, and it would add only a microscopic amount of weight. However, I can't agree that nobody would build the spar in a way that would cause it to fail. Nobody would build something that way ON PURPOSE, but lots of people do dangerous things without realizing it. Steve Witman himself -- almost a god among aircraft designers -- apparently caused his own death by using a dope on his Tailwind that was not compatible with the fabric. If he could screw up fatally, so could the original builder of this KR. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------------------------------- "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse ------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: accident rate of KRI am new to this list and am getting back into flying after a >prolonged absence ((35Years).I only had a student license then. > >I am slowly getting back into flying ,and have recently acquired an >ultralight pietenpol with a kawasaki 440 engine. > >I have been thinking of getting an airplane with greater speed and >range and the KR2 seems to be a very attractive possibility. > >I have been following your lists and found much useful info. No this >is not a joke as no jokes are alllowed on your list. > >Mike Mims graciously provided a list of accidents with KR's > >To me it seemed that there were two main causes: > >One , poor pilot t judgement (some of the things I am afraid I might >do myself).such as pilots with little or no training or experience in >this type of aircraft,., taking off under adverse conditions, running >our of fuel,etc. > >and Two: sloppy workmanship combined with a desire to get into the air >at all cost, using makeshift part for gasoline connections,etc. > > >In looking at the pictures kindly provided by many of you I see a lot >of excellent workmanship. Are you people the exception to the rule or >do I have the wrong impression? > >Is the accident rate higher,lower or average for KR's compared to >other homebuitls? Perhaps it should be compared to aircraft with >similar speeds. > >I am located in Greenville, North Carolina, 42 miles east of I 95, are >ther any owners or buildersn nearby? > >Thaks for any feedback you could provide me with. > > >Joe Hill > >- >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: miketnyc@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Retract Gear From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:31:08 EST X-Message-Number: 19 The pin-locking system sounds like overkill to me. I was thinking that you could just have a mechanism that holds down the ends of the latches on the "mousetraps" after they click in -- maybe a sliding latch across the top of them, or a cable attached to the ends of them that pulls them down tight. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------------------------------- "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse ------------------------------------------------------- >Mike, > >You've got to be excited now!!! :0) > >Of course from a building standpoint, now's the time to decide whether >you >should go retractable. They work ok and I think the KR-1, especially, >looks >more P-51-ish with it. Yep, central air conditioning is inlcuded. >The two >KR-1s I've flown and owned were both retractable. They both had a >positive up and down pin locking system, much improving on the >original >locking design. If such a system is built, the locking system needs to >be >designed so that the pins or other part of the system is strong enough >so >that it doesn't bend on a hard landing. This could cause binding the >next >time you attempt a "gear down" at the next landing. Most embarassing! >Retractable gear will limit your propellor length somewhat ( ok for >Vdub, >but something you would probably want to increase if you are going >with an >engine like the 0-200) and will cause you to avoid all but the better >landing strips. Short gear legs and little tires tend to "hunt" for >animal holes and potholes. I l agree that the throw-over control >wheel >should go - I don't even like them in the Bonanzas...and you don't >need >the extra complexity and weight. > > As for instruments, I'm definitely a KISS person. I would include >EGT and >CHT for EACH cylinder so you can tell what the valves are doing and >that's >about all the "extras" in addition to the required basic engine and >flight >instruments. In short, I would keep any KR a VFR daylight bird. > >Good luck finding a place to build! > >Ed Janssen >> >> >>Assuming I buy it, I expect to be getting rid of several things, >>including the throw-over control wheel, the Type 4 engine, the >>retractible tricycle gear, and all the gyro instruments (except >possibly >>for a turn indicator). >> >>In the meantime, I'd like to hear from people building (or flying) >the >>classic retractible gear design. I wouldn't have bought this gear if >I >>were starting from scratch, but except for the nosewheel the >retractible >>tricycle gear seems to be similar or identical to the standard >retract >>gear, so I might as well use it if I can. There are several beef-up >>procedures for the lock mechanism in the Newsletters and I plan to >build >>a plane as close to stock weight as I can. Also, of course, the >>retractible gear is much cooler. If anyone got rid of retractible >gear, >>I'd like to hear about that, too, and also possibly buy some of your >>parts for spares. >> >>Mike Taglieri > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: miketnyc@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Firewall; gas tank design From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:31:08 EST X-Message-Number: 20 >>>You dont need stainless, a coated mild steel is acceptable. >>>(but doesnt look as pretty) Check out the book "Firewall Forward" >>>by Tony Bingelis. >>> >>>Rich Parker >> >>Doesn't he say somewhere that you need a thicker (i.e., heavier) >piece >of >>mild steel than stainless steel for equal fireproof-ness? > >Actually he says just the opposite by saying that you can get away >with >using coated mild steel instead of using SS and save about half the >weight. but if you want it to look pretty ...SS Wow, you're right that it's lighter (although he says he doubts the difference could be measured on a shop scale. Guess it's galvanized for me, because pretty is as pretty does. Incidentally, I noticed something else in "Firewall Forward" while looking for the firewall data. Has anyone ever noticed the fuel tank design on page 164? The drawing is there to show how fuel tanks are vented, but this particular tank looks like a rectangle witn one corner cut off, i.e., it goes pretty far down on the firewall in front and is higher in back, resulting in a roughly triangular cross-section. The result of having this shape in a header tank would be that, as the fuel level in the tank drops, the center-of-gravity of the fuel itself moves closer and closer to the front, partly compensating for the rearward shift in CG from burning-off of the fuel. It would only compensate to some extent, but it might be worth looking into unless the lower bottom of the tank would decrease the fuel-head too much. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------------------------------- "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse ------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Weight relieving fuselage shear braces From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:49:23 EST X-Message-Number: 21 Folks, I am ready to put the four shear braces on my fuselage (Two for engin top mounts one for bottom and one for seat belts). I was wondering that I may be able to save few pounds if I can drill holes using a hole cutter saw in them. Has anybody else has done that? Any comments? Thanks Haris Ashraf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Firewall From: "JEAN" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:44:44 -0600 X-Message-Number: 22 And if anyone questions the use of .005 SS, just try to cut a 2" hole using a hole saw. It will give you a great deal of respect for the material. Jean ( with a toothless 2" hole saw ) -----Original Message----- From: Richard Parker To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:10 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Firewall > > >>>You dont need stainless, a coated mild steel is acceptable. >>>(but doesnt look as pretty) Check out the book "Firewall Forward" >>>by Tony Bingelis. >>> >>>Rich Parker >> >>Doesn't he say somewhere that you need a thicker (i.e., heavier) piece >of >>mild steel than stainless steel for equal fireproof-ness? >> >>Mike Taglieri > >Actually he says just the opposite by saying that you can get away with >using coated mild steel instead of using SS and save about half the >weight. but if you want it to look pretty ...SS > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: N4DD@prodigy.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: "RONALD R. EASON" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:57:40 -0600 X-Message-Number: 23 It is a good idea if you can get enough heat. Better calculate the heat from the oil cooler. Ron At 02:16 PM 1/16/99 -0800, you wrote: >I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the VW, >for cabin heat. > >Alastair Hawkins >Port Coquitlam, B.C. >Canada > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jrlkc@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Retract Gear From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:18:01 -0500 X-Message-Number: 24 Rex Taylor (HAPI) had a latching system that would not bounch loose. It has two pins that goes in two holes at the top and bottom top of a half moon bar. I have one on my KR1 I'm building. RWM -----Original Message----- From: Michael C. Taglieri To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 6:33 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Retract Gear >The pin-locking system sounds like overkill to me. I was thinking that >you could just have a mechanism that holds down the ends of the latches >on the "mousetraps" after they click in -- maybe a sliding latch across >the top of them, or a cable attached to the ends of them that pulls them >down tight. > >Mike Taglieri > >------------------------------------------------------- >"May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse >------------------------------------------------------- > >>Mike, >> >>You've got to be excited now!!! :0) >> >>Of course from a building standpoint, now's the time to decide whether >>you >>should go retractable. They work ok and I think the KR-1, especially, >>looks >>more P-51-ish with it. Yep, central air conditioning is inlcuded. >>The two >>KR-1s I've flown and owned were both retractable. They both had a >>positive up and down pin locking system, much improving on the >>original >>locking design. If such a system is built, the locking system needs to >>be >>designed so that the pins or other part of the system is strong enough >>so >>that it doesn't bend on a hard landing. This could cause binding the >>next >>time you attempt a "gear down" at the next landing. Most embarassing! >>Retractable gear will limit your propellor length somewhat ( ok for >>Vdub, >>but something you would probably want to increase if you are going >>with an >>engine like the 0-200) and will cause you to avoid all but the better >>landing strips. Short gear legs and little tires tend to "hunt" for >>animal holes and potholes. I l agree that the throw-over control >>wheel >>should go - I don't even like them in the Bonanzas...and you don't >>need >>the extra complexity and weight. >> >> As for instruments, I'm definitely a KISS person. I would include >>EGT and >>CHT for EACH cylinder so you can tell what the valves are doing and >>that's >>about all the "extras" in addition to the required basic engine and >>flight >>instruments. In short, I would keep any KR a VFR daylight bird. >> >>Good luck finding a place to build! >> >>Ed Janssen >>> >>> >>>Assuming I buy it, I expect to be getting rid of several things, >>>including the throw-over control wheel, the Type 4 engine, the >>>retractible tricycle gear, and all the gyro instruments (except >>possibly >>>for a turn indicator). >>> >>>In the meantime, I'd like to hear from people building (or flying) >>the >>>classic retractible gear design. I wouldn't have bought this gear if >>I >>>were starting from scratch, but except for the nosewheel the >>retractible >>>tricycle gear seems to be similar or identical to the standard >>retract >>>gear, so I might as well use it if I can. There are several beef-up >>>procedures for the lock mechanism in the Newsletters and I plan to >>build >>>a plane as close to stock weight as I can. Also, of course, the >>>retractible gear is much cooler. If anyone got rid of retractible >>gear, >>>I'd like to hear about that, too, and also possibly buy some of your >>>parts for spares. >>> >>>Mike Taglieri >> >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: miketnyc@juno.com >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: Donald Reid Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:01:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 Alastair Hawkins wrote: > > I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the VW, > for cabin heat. > Tony B. recommends using a heat muff around the exhaust pipe, just like the carb heat. I suspect that the oil cooler will not put out enough. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Wing Tank To Header Tank Pump Control From: "RONALD R. EASON" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:15:02 -0600 X-Message-Number: 26 If anyone is interested in what I am using to automatically deliver fuel to the header tank and keep the header tank full, see the electronic control board at jrl-engineering.com web site. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: retractable gear From: "bennett family" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 99 12:33:23 PST X-Message-Number: 27 G'day Michael I, like you have stayed with the retracts. Time will tell if it was = a foolish decision or not, however I have incorporated a couple of mods = to hopefully improve it without adding too much weight. I have added 1" = spacers between the spring bar and the castings and bump stops are instal= led above the ends of the spring bar to prevent excesive spring bar defle= ction. Also I have made a pair of hinged gear fairings that are attache= d to the stubwing skin (beefed up) and are activated by the gear legs. = They should prevent ingress of too much slipstream and greatly improve = airflow over the retracted gear. Malcolm Bennett ---------- > > >Here's the deal - I'll talk with her about how she wishes to proceed. = > >I'll > >report back once she tells me. Everyone line up, take a number and = > >write it > >on the back of a crisp new $20 bill. > > Too late. I called her today and told her I wanted to buy it, partly > because she said I could keep it there for awhile until I find a > workspace, the search for which is now kicking into high gear. > > Assuming I buy it, I expect to be getting rid of several things, > including the throw-over control wheel, the Type 4 engine, the > retractible tricycle gear, and all the gyro instruments (except possibl= y > for a turn indicator). > > In the meantime, I'd like to hear from people building (or flying) the > classic retractible gear design. I wouldn't have bought this gear if = I > were starting from scratch, but except for the nosewheel the retractibl= e > tricycle gear seems to be similar or identical to the standard retract > gear, so I might as well use it if I can. There are several beef-up > procedures for the lock mechanism in the Newsletters and I plan to buil= d > a plane as close to stock weight as I can. Also, of course, the > retractible gear is much cooler. If anyone got rid of retractible gear= , > I'd like to hear about that, too, and also possibly buy some of your > parts for spares. > > Mike Taglieri > > ------------------------------------------------------- > "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.htm= l > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: benfam@picknowl.com.au > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: L. Palanipappan From: "bennett family" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 99 12:39:25 PST X-Message-Number: 28 G'day Palani Please give me your private email address to prevent clogging up the Kr-= net with our corespondance. Thanks. Malcolm Bennett (benfan@picknowl.com.au) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR in Staten Island, NY From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:25:47 -0800 X-Message-Number: 29 "Michael C. Taglieri" wrote: <<>> I guess my thinking was that the spar construction is so simple that anyone could do it right. But like I said in an earlier post I would just build another spar if I were that concerned. I think you could build another center section for a couple a hundred bucks. Good luck on your project. I bet it feels great to have one now eh? I think your on the right track by throwing out all the whiz bang gizmos and building as a basic VFR airplane. That's pretty much what I am doing. I may have a few changes on my aircraft but it is (or will be) a VERY basic FR airplane. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims SP290 (Sky Pig 290) ,..Building Cowling now mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing Tanks From: Douglas Dorfmeier Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:39:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 30 DClarke351@aol.com wrote: > > Thankyou, I guess thats all we need to know about that tank.Now if we could > just find someone who could build this type of tank to our wing specks. There > is nothing wrong with that kind of plastic. If it is installed properly it > will outlast the plane. Don Clarke > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: doug.dorfmeier@worldnet.att.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com I am considering this tank as a small header tank. I measured where it would fit last night and it looks like it could fit nicely and still leave enough room for a small baggage compartment in the front of the fuselage. Doug Dorfmeier Concord, Ca. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Firewall From: "Rod Kelso" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:47:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 31 If anyone attempts to drill the .005SS, use a cutting liquid and a very, very, slow drill motor. I have drilled more holes in SS than one can imagine and by using this methoid it works very well. Keep the cutting teeth cool with your cutting fluid and an even amount of pressure on the material being drilled. Good luck. Rod Kelso Colorado ---------- > From: JEAN > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Firewall > Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 5:44 PM > > And if anyone questions the use of .005 SS, just try to cut a 2" hole using > a hole saw. It will give you a great deal of respect for the material. > Jean ( with a toothless 2" hole saw ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Parker > To: KR-net users group > Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:10 AM > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Firewall > > > > > > > >>>You dont need stainless, a coated mild steel is acceptable. > >>>(but doesnt look as pretty) Check out the book "Firewall Forward" > >>>by Tony Bingelis. > >>> > >>>Rich Parker > >> > >>Doesn't he say somewhere that you need a thicker (i.e., heavier) piece > >of > >>mild steel than stainless steel for equal fireproof-ness? > >> > >>Mike Taglieri > > > >Actually he says just the opposite by saying that you can get away with > >using coated mild steel instead of using SS and save about half the > >weight. but if you want it to look pretty ...SS > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: N4DD@prodigy.net > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Material Properties From: "Dean Collette" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:58:42 -0600 X-Message-Number: 32 Does anyone have a link for material properties? I am interested in physical and mechanical properties for aluminum alloys (2024, 6061, 7075.) (I had all of this in a book which is . . . somewhere??) Dean mailto:drdean@execpc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: cartera Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:45:49 -0700 X-Message-Number: 33 Hi Gang, You'll never get enough heat off the oil cooler. Why don't you go into my website and maybe you will come up with some answers. Donald Reid wrote: > > Alastair Hawkins wrote: > > > > I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the VW, > > for cabin heat. > > > > Tony B. recommends using a heat muff around the exhaust pipe, just like > the carb heat. I suspect that the oil cooler will not put out enough. > > -- > Don Reid > Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com > KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm > Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Cabin Heat From: miketnyc@juno.com (Michael C. Taglieri) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:14:21 EST X-Message-Number: 34 >>I am wondering if it is possible to use the air from the oil cooler on the >>VW, for cabin heat. > I tried to use the oil cooler for heat in my KR, It diden't work to >good, It would not get hot enough in the winter when you needed it . The advantage of the standard system is the same as the advantage of the heater setup in the original VW cars: the exhaust gets hot almost immediately and all of that heat is waste heat. Therefore, a heat muff off an exhaust pipe gets as hot as it's going to get very soon in a flight and drawing it off does not prevent the engine from warming up. If you were drawing the heat from the oil cooler, you'd have to wait until the oil warmed up before it was radiating significant heat. Of course, I admit that the heat in old VW's was usually pretty bad, but this was a flaw of execution, not basic theory. The real problem I with airplane heat is that it's dependent on the amount the engine happens to be putting out, so you're doing thuch & go's in the winter, you get no heat on short final and a hell of a lot during takeoff. Maybe a thermostatically adjustable cabin-heat control could solve this problem. Mike Taglieri ------------------------------------------------------- "May your life be full of lawyers" -- Mexican curse ------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com