From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 12:24 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: March 15, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Monday, March 15, 1999. 1. Re: "No electrical system. . . ." 2. Re: Plywood gussets 3. Re: LangfordKosh VI 4. No electricity 5. NO MORE, Please 6. Re: Carb 7. Re: Carb 8. KR Gathering 1999 9. my garbage 10. Re: Methylene Chloride (fwd) 11. Re: "No electrical system. . . ." 12. Virus Warning Guidelines 13. Re: Plywood gussets 14. Re: my garbage 15. Re: my garbage 16. Re: Carb 17. Re: [kr-net]No, my garbage 18. Re: my garbage 19. Re: my garbage 20. garbage, ha!!! 21. Re: my garbage 22. kr no electrics 23. Re: NO MORE, Please 24. Re: my garbage 25. Garbage?!?! 26. Clarification 27. Re: my garbage 28. Re: [kr-net]No, my garbage 29. RE: my garbage 30. Gussets-- Does anyone have data?? 31. Re: Clarification 32. Re: my garbage 33. Re: Clarification 34. Trailing Edge Clarification 35. Re: Trailing Edge Clarification 36. Re: Trailing Edge Clarification 37. (no subject) 38. Re: my garbage 39. Re: Trailing Edge Clarification 40. Re: Carb 41. Re: Carb 42. Re: garbage 43. Hi - New KRNet Member from Calgary 44. WAF 45. EA-82 for sale 46. Re: my garbage 47. Re: my garbage 48. Re: Plywood gussets 49. Re: WAF and other things (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: "No electrical system. . . ." From: Jaccoo@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:17:47 EST X-Message-Number: 1 Have you checked with your local utility to see what it would cost to have a meter put in. You probably could have a simple electrical system installed for the price of a generator. Maybe the landlord would give you some credit toward rent to have it wired. jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood gussets From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:08:36 -0600 X-Message-Number: 2 Mike Taglieri wrote: >There was a long thread on this a year or so ago, which may be in the >archives (?). I would expect the plywood gussets to be a bit stronger, >if uglier, and using both would be overkill (and overweight). You can build your plane however you see fit. But you should be advised that Tony Bengelis (among others) say that plywood gussets are better than none at all, but solid Spruce gussets are the best. If KRNet "decided" that plywood gussets would be a bit stronger, that should tell you something about KRNet...but I don't remember us reaching that conclusion, not if I had anything to say about it. Plywood gussets are a bandaid for the lazy. Now adding plywood gussets over your spruce ones can't hurt (except for weight), and can make a bad joint better. But on three sides of the boat, you already have a huge plywood gusset in the form of outer skin. Surely you aren't advocating leaving out the spruce between members? Like I said before, these "gussets" are mainly for enhancing the quality of the glue joint between end grain wood (which doesn't glue well) and the member it's attaching too. You guys do what you want though. It's your butt... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: LangfordKosh VI From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:03:20 EST X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 3/14/99 5:39:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << Chris Gardiner is coming down to visit next Sunday morning, the 21st at about 10:00. There were some folks in South Alabama that were asking to come up at the end of last year, but I forgot who you are. >> I'm up for it, who else? Dana ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: No electricity From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:24:57 PST X-Message-Number: 4 Hello, netters Marvin Barnard constructed the prototype M-19 "Flying Squirrel" with no power tools. The M-19 uses a wood structure with foam and fiberglass surfaces, much like the KR. Marvin lives "off the grid" in Indiana, and built his plane using hand tools, mostly outdoors which limits construction time to nice days. It can be done the "Yankee Craftsman" way, but sure adds to build time. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: NO MORE, Please From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:52:07 EST X-Message-Number: 5 Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. Just because one person breaks the rules doesn't make it OK for everyone else to do it. I have benefitted tremendously from postings about building techniques and tips but I really don't want to see a series of advertisements for someone trying to make a fast buck. Bob Lasecki Chicago ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Carb From: Tom Crawford Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:37:40 -0800 X-Message-Number: 6 MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > > RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > > > Have just mounted (tempory) my Type 4 bus engine, 2400 CC, > > suggestions?? > > > > Also this model engine was originally a fuel injected engine with no > > provisions for a mechanical pump. Could use two electrics but what happens if > > I loose the electrical system?? > > ----------------- > > It may be to late for you now that you have the motor all together, > But I took my Type IV to a machinist familiar with VWs and he drilled > out the pad and installed a bushing and now I have a mechanical fuel > pump. I did this while the motor was apart. Something for you to think > about when you rebuild or have the motor torn apart. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field > ----------------- > > --- > Marvin, Smart move. That is what I should have done, but did not know to. Then have an electric pump inline just in case. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Carb From: Tom Crawford Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:49:39 -0800 X-Message-Number: 7 RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > Have just mounted (tempory) my Type 4 bus engine, 2400 CC, 9 to 1 compression > with a Force 1 hub and Diehl back plate with starter and Slick mag. Was built > from scratch with all new parts. Have to choose a carb. Anyone have any > suggestions?? > > Also this model engine was originally a fuel injected engine with no > provisions for a mechanical pump. Could use two electrics but what happens if > I loose the electrical system?? Probably the same thing as if I lost the one > mag. > > Am thinking about the Ellison mounted on top of the engine to cut down on the > length of the intake tubes but wonder if a Zenith at about 25% of the cost and > mounted underneath the engine may be a better choice. Will have to make the > intake manifold as Great Plains does not make one for the Type 4. > > Mark, what are you useing?? > > Sounds like my engine. I am using the new Ellison EFS3A and am quite happy with it. At first I had the EFS2 but feel it was too small, had high EGT's. I too did not drill the fuel pump pad and instal a mechanical pump. Maybe I will at a later date. For now, I have a Facet pump inline with a 12 gallon header tank. The plane runs fine without the pump on, but find the EGT is about 75-100 degrees cooler on take off with the pump on. In cruise, it makes no difference in EGT, speed, or RPM. Keep in mind that the EFS3 uses 3/8" fuel lines. One more thing- if you use an Ellison, you WILL need a primer. Tom Crawford tomc@afn.org Gainesville, FL N262TC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR Gathering 1999 From: Kr2jm@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:14:35 EST X-Message-Number: 8 When making reservations at Lake Barkley State Park for lodging. Make it clear that you are with the Gathering. I called last Friday and was told that there was a room available for Friday night only. I called again Sunday to ask where the nearest motel was to the park. I mentioned that there were a block of rooms reserved and I was just to late to get one, the lady said call Monday and mention the block of reserved rooms. I did, there are more available. We will see you there. Jim Morehead kr2jm@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: my garbage From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:57:34 -0600 X-Message-Number: 9 >Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders out. I've deliberately only announced my web site once. I was going to leave it to others to aim WAF seekers in my direction. I'm having serious second thoughts about "selling" anything. I'm only trying to justify (to myself) what I've been doing for years, which is sending out free templates and drawings to anybody that asks. I've arrived at the point where I'm real tired of doing it, and have decided to stop it. I had hoped that announcing that it was going to cost a little money to get full size plotted templates of airfoils and other KR parts would make people think twice before asking me for a free copy. I'm really having a hard time justifying the amount of time that I put into helping other KR builders, while my plane sits idle in the basement. I've put in a grand total of FIVE hours in the last five months. I started thinking about the amount of time that I put into reading and answering KRNet email, and how much I'd get done on my plane if I unsubscribed. I'd love to keep up my previous pace, but 13 hour days at work has put a serious dent in my spare time. And we spend so much time talking about stuff that concerns things other than KR building, and things that have been covered over and over. I think I need a break from KRNet and the community as a whole. I find it a little irritating that I've spent 6 years reasearching KRs, homebuilding methods, sources, etc, while all that others have to do is ask me how to do it, and for some free drawings while I'm at it! And I'm not even sure why I've been doing this. I better stop now, before I say something that ticks off every one of you, rather than just half of you. But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride (fwd) From: Steven Eberhart Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:00:20 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 10 There has been an ongoing discussion about how to clean fiberglass surfaces that are going to have structural bonds or additional layers of glass laid up on them. THe following post sums up how the discussions have been going. THought this might be of interrest to KR builders. Steve Eberhart ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:24:58 EST From: N295VV@aol.com To: lancair.list@olsusa.com Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vvv I am a chemist. I have the following pearls of wisdom: Dont use petroleum distillates to clean your surfaces! Petroleum is oil, isnt it? Dont use acetone if methylene chloride is available to you. If you do use it, dry it off well with a heat gun afterwards. Careful! I once burned down a building with a pint of acetone. I am not a fan of acetone for this application. Dont use any of the mixtures that are available as strippers. Some of these companies buy recyled solvents that probably have oils in them in small amounts. The advantage of MeCl2 is that it cuts the oils, flows off nicely, and evaporates completely in a few minutes. It really is not very toxic, but ventilate and wear gloves. All of the other junk you guys are using can come back and bite you! I liked the glass test mentioned. Smear some grease on a glass plate and clean it with your substitute. It must clean off completely, down to the part per million level. Methylene chloride is the only solvent which reliably does that. Dont mess with this critical use. Having your skin come unbonded at 300 kts will make for a bad day. It has already happened by the way.' David Jones, Pecatonica Illinois ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: "No electrical system. . . ." From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:45:21 -0800 X-Message-Number: 11 Mike, I first moved my KR to a hangar without power, and it did slow things down a bit, but a lot of the work you do does not require power. Sanding, Fiberglass, and cutting spruce (if you use hand tools). You may need heat... (propane heaters can get you in trouble with the Fire marshall so take them with you). I have a battery powered screwdriver, this helps. You can also buy/rent a generator for those times where you will really need some power (say for a grinder, drill press, or compressor). So... I think you can lay out and build the sides of your KR, depending on what method you use to cut your gussets, you may need some power. -- Ross Michael Taglieri wrote: > > As some of you may remember, I was looking for a garage in the NYC area > to build a plane. Tonite a friend on Staten Island told me that the > superintendent of his apartment house has TWO garages available for > $75/month each, which in New York City terms is virtually free -- I've > been quoted $130/month in Manhattan just for enough space to keep my > motorcycle. > > The only problem is there is no electricity in these places. Has anybody > ever built a KR without power, and is this a practical option? > > Mike Taglieri > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@saber.slb.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Virus Warning Guidelines From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:01:06 -0800 X-Message-Number: 12 I think that last Virus Warning was a hoax folks. Please don't post a Virus warning UNLESS you confirm it is a real virus via one of the Virus software websites. Passing unconfirmed Virus warnings is just another form of SPAM. If you think you have a virus, please go to the MCaffee or Symantec websites to check it out before posting to KR-net. -- Regards Ross KR-net Admin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood gussets From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:03:04 -0800 X-Message-Number: 13 I agree with you Mark, Plywood gussets are O.K, but spruce gussets are going to be better. (In my opinion). Anyone want to take some joints over to the neighborhood engineering school to see when they break, can post next. -- Ross > > Mike Taglieri wrote: > > >There was a long thread on this a year or so ago, which may be in the > >archives (?). I would expect the plywood gussets to be a bit stronger, > >if uglier, and using both would be overkill (and overweight). > > You can build your plane however you see fit. But you should be advised > that Tony Bengelis (among others) say that plywood gussets are better than > none at all, but solid Spruce gussets are the best. If KRNet "decided" that > plywood gussets would be a bit stronger, that should tell you something > about KRNet...but I don't remember us reaching that conclusion, not if I had > anything to say about it. > > Plywood gussets are a bandaid for the lazy. Now adding plywood gussets over > your spruce ones can't hurt (except for weight), and can make a bad joint > better. But on three sides of the boat, you already have a huge plywood > gusset in the form of outer skin. Surely you aren't advocating leaving out > the spruce between members? Like I said before, these "gussets" are mainly > for enhancing the quality of the glue joint between end grain wood (which > doesn't glue well) and the member it's attaching too. > > You guys do what you want though. It's your butt... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@saber.slb.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: Jaccoo@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:19:25 EST X-Message-Number: 14 Mark I personally think your garbage is good garbage. I appreciate knowing that i can buy waf at a more reasonable price, and also appreciate the technical questions you take your valuable time to answer. keep up the good work, but get back to work on your KR. jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:46:29 -0800 X-Message-Number: 15 Mark, I'd recommend just switching to the "INDEX" version of KRnet for a while, this way you won't get so much email. Then you can review the indexes. If somone has somthing that we know you know the answer to we can email you directly. I know how you feel. I have just gotten back from being sick, and am nearly ready to work on my KR again, and here I am answering KR mail instead of work...:(. -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > > >Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. > > Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders > out. I've deliberately only announced my web site once. I was going to > leave it to others to aim WAF seekers in my direction. I'm having serious > second thoughts about "selling" anything. I'm only trying to justify (to > myself) what I've been doing for years, which is sending out free templates > and drawings to anybody that asks. I've arrived at the point where I'm real > tired of doing it, and have decided to stop it. I had hoped that announcing > that it was going to cost a little money to get full size plotted templates > of airfoils and other KR parts would make people think twice before asking > me for a free copy. > > I'm really having a hard time justifying the amount of time that I put into > helping other KR builders, while my plane sits idle in the basement. I've > put in a grand total of FIVE hours in the last five months. I started > thinking about the amount of time that I put into reading and answering > KRNet email, and how much I'd get done on my plane if I unsubscribed. I'd > love to keep up my previous pace, but 13 hour days at work has put a serious > dent in my spare time. And we spend so much time talking about stuff that > concerns things other than KR building, and things that have been covered > over and over. I think I need a break from KRNet and the community as a > whole. I find it a little irritating that I've spent 6 years reasearching > KRs, homebuilding methods, sources, etc, while all that others have to do is > ask me how to do it, and for some free drawings while I'm at it! And I'm > not even sure why I've been doing this. I better stop now, before I say > something that ticks off every one of you, rather than just half of you. > But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@saber.slb.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Carb From: Ross Youngblood Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:53:54 -0800 X-Message-Number: 16 Tom Crawford wrote: ... > One more thing- if you use an Ellison, you WILL need a primer. > I've found that you can live fine without a primer, if you don't plan on ever starting the engine. (Or you can blow fuel down the throat of the EFS before starting). (Still need to finish my primer design.) -- Ross -- Ross Youngblood Pager: (800)SKY-PAGE PIN#895-9073 Staff Technical Specialist voicemail: (800)538-6838 x 1632 Schlumberger SABER Bus Line: (541)714-1754 Corvallis,Oregon mailto:rossy@saber.slb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [kr-net]No, my garbage From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:01:58 EST X-Message-Number: 17 In a message dated 3/15/99 10:58:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... Mark Langford, Huntsville >> Guys, if you are within driving distance of Huntsville, AL and are building or researching a plane to build, do yourself a favor and meet some of us at Mark's house next weekend for LangfordKosh and see some of his "garbage". I have not seen another airplane out there where so much research has gone into improving a design as Mark's. I have seen the templetes Mark has so graciously provided and consider them to be the best I have seen. FWIW, in my opinion I'll rank Mark's commitment to the KR as being in the upper tier. If you have not seen the wing attach fittings that Dean and Mark are offering, well I consider them to be absolutely fantastic and right down the alley that all of us "old timers" on the KRnet would like for more of you develope and offer. I've sent more people "free" stuff to keep them building, jugs, pistons, landing gear, flap handles, the old newsletters for the CDrom and sometimes it does get a little old but I keep on...........Paul Martin, hang with me I'll get you that HAPI case starter plate. Mark's actions prove what he says, Steve at Great Plains.......keep on updating us on your new developements. That's the only way this airplane is going to continue to move forward. I still believe with the KR, you get more bang for your buck than any other "kit" out there and these type of people are only making it cheaper and better. I won't duck into the bunker on this one, I'll keep firing away. Keep on plugging Mark. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "George P. Bell" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:50:13 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 Mark, I have been a "lurker" on the KR-Net for 2 years now. Thanks to people like you and other members of the group, I am getting a good education about building homebuilt aircraft in general as well as building a KR. If a product for the KR will cost less, improve over the standard KR or just give us additional options, I want to know about it. I can't think of a better place than KR-net for such information. I don't think of information about KR products as spam. I would hope most members of the group feel the same. When I am short of time, I use the delete key freely, but always read post from certain members--yours is one that never gets deleted without being read first. Thanks for a terrific web site and valuable input to the group. If you have something to say, I want to hear it, If you have developed anything new--free or for a fee--I want to here about it. We need your "garbage". Keep up the good work, and keep us informed!!! George P. Bell Address: 21851 Oceanview Lane Huntington Beach, CA 92646 Phone: 714-963-2806 Fax: 714-963-8980 Email: gpbell@jps.net Mark Langford wrote: > >Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. > > Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders > out. I've deliberately only..................... > But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: gpbell@jps.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Robert Sauer" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:36:41 -0600 X-Message-Number: 19 Mark, I want to second everything said in this message. Any information pertaining to the KR should be a viable part of this net, as well as anything anyone has for sale related to the KR. Hos can this be a fully informative net without same. I find most often those who complain the most and loudest, have the least interest or a jealous motive for criticism. Bob Sauer > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-kr-net-49736@telelists.com > [mailto:bounce-kr-net-49736@telelists.com]On Behalf Of George P. Bell > Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 2:50 PM > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: my garbage > > > Mark, > > I have been a "lurker" on the KR-Net for 2 years now. Thanks to > people like you > and other members of the group, I am getting a good education > about building > homebuilt aircraft in general as well as building a KR. If a > product for the > KR will cost less, improve over the standard KR or just give us additional > options, I want to know about it. I can't think of a better > place than KR-net > for such information. I don't think of information about KR > products as spam. > I would hope most members of the group feel the same. > > When I am short of time, I use the delete key freely, but always > read post from > certain members--yours is one that never gets deleted without > being read first. > Thanks for a terrific web site and valuable input to the group. > If you have > something to say, I want to hear it, If you have developed > anything new--free > or for a fee--I want to here about it. We need your "garbage". > > Keep up the good work, and keep us informed!!! > > George P. Bell > Address: 21851 Oceanview Lane > Huntington Beach, CA 92646 > Phone: 714-963-2806 > Fax: 714-963-8980 > Email: gpbell@jps.net > > > Mark Langford wrote: > > > >Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of > these postings. > > > > Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders > > out. I've deliberately only..................... > > > But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: gpbell@jps.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: resauer@totalaccess.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: garbage, ha!!! From: "Christopher Stewart" <23cs@msn.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:50:33 X-Message-Number: 20 i think i can speak for the oh i say 250 of us on the kr-net, " thanks Bob for ruining for us all" next time just keep your PERSONAL comments to yourself!!!!!!! Christopher Stewart Whitesville WV ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Cary Honeywell" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:45:08 -0500 X-Message-Number: 21 Email (reply) to caryh@home.com or ve3ev@rac.ca Web page http://members.home.net/caryh KR2 area http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm (Both of the above have not been updated or debugged lately.) ---------- > From: Mark Langford > > Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders > out. I've deliberately only announced my web site once. I was going to.... > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --- Mark: Ross: I lurk and learn from you guys. I wish I could be of help to you. Please continue as best you can so that some of us less experienced builders will keep from killing ourselves. - Cary - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: kr no electrics From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:32:16 CST X-Message-Number: 22 Hi Gang I deleted one message too rapidly. I believe this person wanted some help around the no-electric system problem. On my T-Craft, I use a little Radio Shack hobby wet cell. It is sealed and works with a trickle charger. My GPS has a 12.- volt adapter which I connect to the cell. My handheld navcom takes 6.0 volts, so I put together a Radio Shack voltage regulator and put it in parallel with the GPS. Haven't yet pulled enough from it in a week's time to get a low battery message from either handheld. Rex Ellington Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: NO MORE, Please From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:13 EST X-Message-Number: 23 Bob, What spare parts do you have for sale? I'm looking for a nose gear like the diehl desoign. Iwould like to know more about your Subaru installation. Are you selling any plans/ parts, etc...? I would buy that information and or spare parts. thanks . Joe Cruz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: CruzJ12@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:33:58 EST X-Message-Number: 24 I have to agree 100% with George Bell. . You are an asset to the krnet. Keep up the great work and support. We need more people like you. Joe Cruz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Garbage?!?! From: Kimball Anderson Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:06:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 Both Mark's original post and his intent in forming Trailing Edge Technologies are entirely appropriate to the KR list. As Mark has indicated, he has done nothing but bend over backwards to help people since the inception of KRnet, and has probably posted more useful material than any other single person. I, for one, appreciate the fact that he is willing to make his experience and research available at whatever price he chooses to place on it. His time and talents are a valuable commodity both to him and to anyone building or interested in building a KR, and his loss to this group would be sorely felt by all. I sincerely hope he decides to stick with us. Kimball Anderson isleno@hargray.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Clarification From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:06:24 EST X-Message-Number: 26 Just a quick note, guys, I never intended to say that anything being offered was garbage in any way - just that commercials for personal companies don't belong here which is why I haven't posted anything about the instruments I manufacture. New developments and improvements are great and I, too, have benefitted from them. All that I was trying to ask was to keep the commercials limited to individual's web pages. Hey, I didn't set the rule in the first place! Bob Lasecki Chicago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:24:51 -0500 X-Message-Number: 27 Mark's announcements are very welcome on KRNet, as are anybody else's who makes parts specifically for the KR. It's hard enough to track these things down. My delete button uses barely an ounce of pressure to operate if I so desire. Mark, If you're feeling a little burned out then take a break, and there's nothing wrong with charging for designs you have labored over. You've given back more than your share to the KR community for free. Thank You! -Tom Andersen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [kr-net]No, my garbage From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:36:39 EST X-Message-Number: 28 OH, SO TRUE!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: my garbage From: Ron Freiberger Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:25:13 -0500 X-Message-Number: 29 -----Original Message----- Subject: [kr-net] my garbage >Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. I agree that some window salesman or jerk insurance guy doesn't belong here, but legitimate KR traffic sure as hell does. So far, Ive bought a transponder, emergency beacon, an encoder, wing tips, and a propellor. Sold my training wheel (Nose gear) I very much want to know who has something KR-ish for sale. So, Lasecki, what is it you have to offer? Don't be shy Attaboys (2) Mark? Ron Freiberger... KR2+\- in Fort Myers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Gussets-- Does anyone have data?? From: Ron Freiberger Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:25:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 30 Those little blocks I've seen in most jobs are NOT put in with the grain inline with the potential stress, so the crack/split and then what do you have? I know two builders, (me and uknamed) who've knocked some top pieces out of the boat, while fooling around and trying to sit in the airplane and go"Dr-dnn Dr-dnn". It would be unthinkable (IMHO) to not add nice plywood gussets on those points. In the other areas, the spruce acts a s stiffeners for the plywood, and I think zero structural strength is added. Compare an end grain joint to several inches adhered to the plywood. Ron Freiberger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Clarification From: Kimball Anderson Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:56:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 31 Bob, I think the point is that we WANT to know where your web site is, just as we want to know where Mark's is. If you've got a product that would be useful to the group, let us know where we can take a look at it. You don't really have to advertise, just let us know they're available. I think that's all Mark was trying to do. Kimball Anderson isleno@hargray.com -----Original Message----- From: Kr2dream@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:24 PM Subject: [kr-net] Clarification >Just a quick note, guys, I never intended to say that anything being offered >was garbage in any way - just that commercials for personal companies don't >belong here which is why I haven't posted anything about the instruments I >manufacture. New developments and improvements are great and I, too, have >benefitted from them. All that I was trying to ask was to keep the >commercials limited to individual's web pages. Hey, I didn't set the rule in >the first place! > >Bob Lasecki >Chicago. > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: isleno@hargray.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:24:18 -0800 X-Message-Number: 32 Tom Andersen wrote: > > Mark's announcements are very welcome on KRNet, as are anybody else's who makes parts specifically for the KR. >>>> Hit the nail on the head with the big hammer! As much as I bitch about seeing adds on the KRnet, when someone offers what is pretty much a better than OEM part for a "KR" at half price I for one WANT to hear about it and so should anyone building a KR. I would mention something about money not being an object to some of us who can afford to pay $15,000 for a Subaru engine but I wont. Oops, looks like I did! :o) (don't get upset, I am just playing) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Clarification From: Joe hill Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:33:08 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 33 Bob, Most KR netters seem to think that you came on a little too strongly in calling Mark Langford's's posting garbage. I think that now you have subtlely brought to our attention the fact that you manufacture and sell instruments. It appears,IMHO, you felt honor bound by rules that were meant to keep unwanted, inapproriate advertisements from flooding the KR net. I think that now that the rules have been interpreted as being a little more flexible, you too can at least mention on the KR net any products you have that you feel would fill the needs of KR owners or builders. For details netters could go to your web pages. I,and many others, hope Mark Langford keeps posting his valuable comments and continues to make contributions. As far as his going commercial, this is a capitalistic society, and if he can produce a needed product at a decent price , he should be able to announce this fact and make a just profit while providing these goods and or services. Best regards, Joe Hill ---Kr2dream@aol.com wrote: > > Just a quick note, guys, I never intended to say that anything being offered > was garbage in any way - just that commercials for personal companies don't > belong here which is why I haven't posted anything about the instruments I > manufacture. New developments and improvements are great and I, too, have > benefitted from them. All that I was trying to ask was to keep the > commercials limited to individual's web pages. Hey, I didn't set the rule in > the first place! > > Bob Lasecki > Chicago. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: joeah@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Trailing Edge Clarification From: "Dean Collette" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:37:56 -0600 X-Message-Number: 34 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0474_01BE6F23.B51B8250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters (not all of you, just a couple - you'll know who you are!) Let me just clarify a couple of things about Trailing Edge Technologies. This company was formed because there is a NEED. Most KR builders choose = this airplane, because it is inexpensive, and has respectable = performance. However, once they buy the plans, they start understanding = what RR is all about. "Trying to make a fast buck" ? - I know that was directed specifically = towards me. Let me explain a few things. First of all, let's say I got = those syringes for nothing - if I sold 100 of them, I would make a whopping = $250. Hardly a fast buck. But, I don't get them for nothing. In the end = I will probably make about $0.25 each. And that doesn't include my time! = $0.25 Big deal. If you call that a "fast buck", you might want to start = looking into employment at the local McDonald's. The SOLE reason that I = offer these is that I find it makes mixing up epoxy a lot easier and I = am trying to make your life easier. If the extra $0.25 is too much to = ask - hey, I'll cut you a deal. Trailing Edge is also offering Wing Attach Fittings. Why? Have you seen = the price that RR asks for these things? It's ridiculous. Besides that, = they are stamped. Throw one of them on a flat surface and watch what = happens - the damn things are warped right from the get go. Did you hear = about the little incident that Mike Mims had with WAFs about a year ago = - got a set that were never even heat treated. Since the price that RR = asks is so out of line with what these are actually worth many builders = have decided to make them. That's fine if you understand the mechanical = dynamics of what is actually happening with those fittings. You can't = just drill holes in a chunk of steel and expect it to work - it's not = safe, and that is the bottom line. (That's why I put a section about WAF = construction on my web site.) The reason that we decided to offer these = fittings is that they are better. They are better then anything you can = make yourself, and they are better then the crap that RR tries to pass = off as WAFs. AND, they cost you less. So, do you still want to complain? Since we are on the topic of RR we might as well keep going. Do you = really think RR is trying to help you out - Give me a break! Mark offered a corrected plan set for nothing, yes - free. And Jeannette = couldn't be bothered. She was offered an improved construction manual - = Nope! She saw the new wing attach fittings, and agreed that they are = better - but again, even though it is better, and less expensive, she = won't think about the guy that has to buy them and put them on their = airplane. So what is the new offering from RR? - Oh, yeah, it's the "new = wing skins." $4200 for a set of skins for the RAF. Even though she knew = about the airfoil testing, and the improvements that were made for her = airplanes, she won't help the builder out. $4200? is that trying to save = you money? I don't think so. The only way these make your life better is = that you don't have to carry around that heavy wallet all the time. So what's happening here. Trailing Edge was formed to fill a NEED. You, = the builder, need to have better products for your airplane available at = better prices. You need somebody to spend the time doing all of the CAD = drawings, the templates, the research on a better way to make wing = attach fittings - so you don't have to. You need to have somebody = looking out for you, trying to show you better ways to build parts, and = sell you cheap syringes so you don't get raped at the local Walgreen's. = Why do you need this - because you are building a KR, and it's supposed = to be inexpensive. Since we were already doing all of the work, we = figured we could pass it on. I can assure you that any profit made by = this company will be plowed back into research and development so quick = it would make your head spin. Now, for all you "old timers" that I have just pissed off. Yes, I agree the KR is a great airplane, but this is 1999. All things = change. Remember Simba, change is good. Every time somebody posts = something on KRNet that discusses changing the airplane a little bit, = there are about 3 or 4 people that threaten to quit. Or, if somebody = slams RR, they threaten to quit. If it was up to me - I'd say Bye. But = it's not, we have lots of different people here building lots of = different versions of the KR. (The plans are so damn nebulous, that = everybody winds up building a different version.) Just use the delete. = If you don't want to hear about developments with the new airfoil - = delete it. I delete all of the Spam regarding the upcoming spot landing = contest. If RR wasn't such a huge target they wouldn't get slammed so = much. Besides, if enough people complain, maybe something will happen = for the better. But, the point I am trying to make here is that you (the = old timers) offer a unique perspective to the newbies - so don't quit, = don't threaten to quit, just delete the stuff you don't want to read, = and help out the guys when you can.=20 Oh, by the way, Chicago Bob - Bite me. (Rick or Ross, before you go sending me the KRNet rules again, I'm = sorry, and I promise to behave myself.) Dean Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Site at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0474_01BE6F23.B51B8250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Netters (not all of you, just a couple - you'll know who you=20 are!)

Let me just clarify a couple of things about Trailing Edge=20 Technologies.

This company was formed because there is a=20 NEED. Most KR builders choose this airplane, because it = is=20 inexpensive, and has respectable performance. However, once they buy the = plans,=20 they start understanding what RR is all about.

"Trying to = make a=20 fast buck" ? - I know that was directed specifically towards me. = Let me=20 explain a few things. First of all, let's say I got those
syringes = for=20 nothing - if I sold 100 of them, I would make a whopping $250. Hardly a = fast=20 buck.  But, I don't get them for nothing. In the end I will = probably make=20 about $0.25 each. And that doesn't include my time! $0.25 Big deal. If = you call=20 that a "fast buck", you might want to start looking into = employment at=20 the local McDonald's. The SOLE reason that I offer = these is=20 that I find it makes mixing up epoxy a lot easier and I am trying to = make your=20 life easier. If the extra $0.25 is too much to ask - hey, I'll cut you a = deal.

Trailing Edge is also offering Wing Attach Fittings. Why? = Have you=20 seen the price that RR asks for these things? It's ridiculous. Besides = that,=20 they are stamped. Throw one of them on a flat surface and watch what = happens -=20 the damn things are warped right from the get go. Did you hear about the = little=20 incident that Mike Mims had with WAFs about a year ago - got a set that = were=20 never even heat treated. Since the price that RR asks is so out of line = with=20 what these are actually worth many builders have decided to make them. = That's=20 fine if you understand the mechanical dynamics of what is actually = happening=20 with those fittings. You can't just drill holes in a chunk of steel and = expect=20 it to work - it's not safe, and that is the bottom line. (That's why I = put a=20 section about WAF construction on my web site.) The reason that we = decided to=20 offer these fittings is that they are better. They are better then = anything you=20 can make yourself, and they are better then the crap that RR tries to = pass off=20 as WAFs. AND, they cost you less. So, do you still want to=20 complain?

Since we are on the topic of RR we might as well keep = going. Do=20 you really think RR is trying to help you out - Give me a break! = Mark
offered=20 a corrected plan set for nothing, yes - free. = And=20 Jeannette couldn't be bothered. She was offered an improved construction = manual=20 - Nope! She saw the new wing attach fittings, and=20 agreed that they are better - but = again, even=20 though it is better, and less expensive, she won't think about the guy = that has=20 to buy them and put them on their airplane. So what is the new offering = from RR?=20 - Oh, yeah, it's the "new wing skins." $4200 for a set of = skins for=20 the RAF. Even though she knew about the airfoil testing, and the = improvements=20 that were made for her airplanes, she won't help the builder out. $4200? = is that=20 trying to save you money? I don't think so. The only way these make your = life=20 better is that you don't have to carry around that heavy wallet all the=20 time.

So what's happening here. Trailing Edge was formed to fill = a NEED.=20 You, the builder, need to have better products for your airplane = available at=20 better prices. You need somebody to spend the time doing all of the CAD=20 drawings, the templates, the research on a better way to make wing = attach=20 fittings - so you don't have to. You need to have somebody looking out = for you,=20 trying to show you better ways to build parts, and sell you cheap = syringes so=20 you don't get raped at the local Walgreen's. Why do you need this - = because you=20 are building a KR, and it's supposed to be inexpensive. Since we were = already=20 doing all of the work, we figured we could pass it on. I can assure you = that any=20 profit made by this company will be plowed back into research and = development so=20 quick it would make your head spin.

Now, for all you "old=20 timers" that I have just pissed off.
Yes, I agree the KR is a = great=20 airplane, but this is 1999. All things change. Remember Simba, change is = good.=20 Every time somebody posts something on KRNet that discusses changing the = airplane a little bit, there are about 3 or 4 people that threaten to = quit. Or,=20 if somebody slams RR, they threaten to quit. If it was up to me - I'd = say Bye.=20 But it's not, we have lots of different people here building lots of = different=20 versions of the KR. (The plans are so damn nebulous, that everybody = winds up=20 building a different version.) Just use the delete. If you don't want to = hear=20 about developments with the new airfoil - delete it. I delete all of the = Spam=20 regarding the upcoming spot landing contest. If RR wasn't such a huge = target=20 they wouldn't get slammed so much. Besides, if enough people complain, = maybe=20 something will happen for the better. But, the point I am trying to make = here is=20 that you (the old timers) offer a unique perspective to the newbies - so = don't=20 quit, don't threaten to quit, just delete the stuff you don't want to = read, and=20 help out the guys when you can.  

Oh, by the way, Chicago Bob - Bite me. 
 
(Rick or Ross, before you go sending me the KRNet rules again, I'm = sorry,=20 and I promise to behave myself.)
 
 
Dean
Trailing Edge = Technologies, LLC
mailto:drdean@execpc.com
Web = Site at http://www.execpc.com/~dr= dean/home.htm
------=_NextPart_000_0474_01BE6F23.B51B8250-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Clarification From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:47:33 -0800 X-Message-Number: 35 > Dean Collette wrote: > > Oh, by the way, Chicago Bob - Bite me. > > Now that is one hell of a flame job! Justifiable?,....I think maybe. Dr. Dean can I get you to paint my KR290? :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Clarification From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:46:56 EST X-Message-Number: 36 HERE!!!! HERE!!!!! VERY WELL SAID INDEED!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: (no subject) From: Robert Maniss Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:02:14 -0800 X-Message-Number: 37 Mark, you are the latest proof of the old saying that "no good deed goes unpunished." I've appreciated your comments, suggestions, etc. Hang in there!!! Bob Maniss Abilene, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Mel Poradun" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:42:47 -0800 X-Message-Number: 38 , and how much I'd get done on my plane if I unsubscribed Mark most of us know what a job kr-net can be and we are glad to get info that helps us build our aircraft. I don't think that You or your partner have been out of line. Please stay with us as we need people like you and the info that is created by them. Mel Poradun KR2S Ferndale, WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Clarification From: "Mel Poradun" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:05:21 -0800 X-Message-Number: 39 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01BE6F1F.27F835C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dean not all the old timers disagree with you. I have been on the net = for sometime now and every ones in a while someone has to make some = noise. don't take it personaly we need to have places to get things for = cheaper some were, maybe a landing light at Wal mart or something so = toot your horn we are listening. Mel Poradun KR2S Ferndale, WA ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01BE6F1F.27F835C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dean not all the old timers disagree with you.  = I have=20 been on the net for sometime now and every ones in a while someone has = to make=20 some noise. don't take it personaly we need to have places to get things = for=20 cheaper some were, maybe a landing light at Wal mart or something so = toot your=20 horn we are listening.
 
Mel Poradun
KR2S
Ferndale, WA
 
------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01BE6F1F.27F835C0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Carb From: SkyHawk11@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:43:30 EST X-Message-Number: 40 PUMPS QUIT WORKING!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Carb From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:30:03 -0800 X-Message-Number: 41 SkyHawk11@aol.com wrote: > > PUMPS QUIT WORKING!!!! > I am with you on the keep it simple. But pumps don't quit working anymore than any other component that makes up the powerplant. Hey, I saw just the other day a VW powered aircraft with three pumps but only one ignition. Kinda silly if you ask me. If your system needs a pump, install two. There are 1000s of low wing planes that fly each and everyday with one electric boost pump and one mechanical pump. My KR has a 17 gallon header tank so no pump is needed and I like it that way. As far as weight shift, the center of mass on my tank is only about 7 inches in front of the CG. I don't think it will be that big an issue. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: garbage From: SClay10106@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:04:42 EST X-Message-Number: 42 I personaly like what i recieve from the kr members the input on new sucess stories how to info and even planes or parts for sell. This is a kr mailing list and as long as the input ir regaurding that send it if people are complaining maybe the need to find a sight taylored mor tward what they are looking for. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Hi - New KRNet Member from Calgary From: "Rich Hubka" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:40:52 -0700 X-Message-Number: 43 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE6F34.E13238A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi People My name is Rick Hubka from Calgary Alberta Canada. =20 I just joined KRNet about a week ago and would just like to say "Hello" = and drop a few words about myself. I'm what they call a "Rusty Wings" = pilot. I stopped flying 16 years ago (only had 80 hours in a Grumman = Cheeta) when my daughter was born (renting cost too much $$$). Last = month(16 years later) Carrie just got her drivers licence. Where's the = car??? =20 So... I just enrolled in ground school again(starts in 3 days) and = "renting still cost too much". I have always wanted to build a plane. = I just love to build things. In fact I think I am more excited about = building a KR-2S than I am about flying it. Just happen to have a 32' X = 22' garage with my trusty "ShopSmith" and dozens of wood clamps. My = hobby for about 20 years now has been woodworking and computers (what a = combination). AeroPoxy? After buying several copies of "CustomPlanes" = & "KitPlanes" and a lot of searching on the Net I found: The KR-2S. Cheaper than renting and fast to boot!! KRNet. What a great medium!!!! 857 jpg picture files (I saved them all for reference). There's = more!!!! Dozens of Homepages!!!!! Tons of people all helping each other. Now that's the most important = thing!!!!!!! *************************************************** Oh... Just for the record. I have all of 1998 KRNet posting in a MS = Word Doc and did a word search finding "Mark Langfords" name 891 times. = It's people like him who helped make my decision to build a KR-2S = aircraft. I'm in for the "long haul" Mark. Don't leave us now and I = agree with what you are doing for KR members!!! *************************************************** I'm a computer programmer by trade. What CAD program do most/some of = you use? I don't care to think much about engines right now (MMMmm... EA-81). I = just want to build a "boat". Maybe a rendition of Dr. Dean's laminated = bulkheads both top and bottom. MMMmmm.... =20 =20 If anyone needs any computer assistance. Please send any questions = direct. Until I become an "Old Timer", it's the only assistance I can = offer. Rick Hubka (KR Old Timer - Wannabe) rick@hubka.com ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE6F34.E13238A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi People
 
My name is Rick Hubka from Calgary=20 Alberta Canada.
 
I just joined KRNet about a week ago and would just = like to=20 say "Hello" and drop a few words about myself.  I'm what = they=20 call a "Rusty Wings" pilot.  I stopped flying 16 years = ago (only=20 had 80 hours in a Grumman Cheeta) when my daughter was born (renting = cost too=20 much $$$).  Last month(16 years later) Carrie just got her drivers=20 licence.  Where's the car???
 
So...  I just enrolled in ground school = again(starts in 3=20 days) and "renting still cost too much".  I have always = wanted to=20 build a plane.  I just love to build things.  In fact I think = I am=20 more excited about building a KR-2S than I am about flying = it.  Just=20 happen to have a 32' X 22' garage with my trusty "ShopSmith" = and=20 dozens of wood clamps.    My hobby for = about 20=20 years now has been woodworking and computers (what a combination).  = AeroPoxy?  After buying several copies of "CustomPlanes" = &=20 "KitPlanes" and a lot of searching on the Net I = found:
The KR-2S.  Cheaper than renting and fast to=20 boot!!
KRNet.  What a great medium!!!!
857 jpg picture files (I saved them all for=20 reference).  There's more!!!!
Dozens of Homepages!!!!!
Tons of people all helping each other.  Now that's the most = important=20 thing!!!!!!!
***************************************************
Oh...  Just for the record.  I have all of 1998 KRNet = posting in=20 a MS Word Doc and did a word search finding "Mark = Langfords" =20 name 891 times.  It's people like him who helped make my decision = to build=20 a KR-2S aircraft.  I'm in for the "long haul" Mark.  = Don't=20 leave us now and I agree with what you are doing for KR members!!!
***************************************************
I'm a computer programmer by trade.  What CAD program do = most/some of=20 you use?
 
I don't care to think much about engines right now (MMMmm... = EA-81). =20 I just want to build a "boat".  Maybe a rendition of Dr. = Dean's=20 laminated bulkheads both top and bottom.   = MMMmmm.... =20
 
If anyone needs any computer assistance.  = Please send any=20 questions direct.  Until I become an "Old Timer", it's = the only=20 assistance I can offer.
 
 
Rick Hubka (KR Old Timer - Wannabe)
rick@hubka.com
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE6F34.E13238A0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: WAF From: "John M. Wadleigh" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:40:10 -0700 X-Message-Number: 44 Dean wrote an excellent note - best of luck to trailing edge. Dean wrote of wing attachment fittings that Mike Mims received from RR that were not heat treated. What a scarry thought! How does a nonengineer know if a fitting is heat treated or not? Specifically, I purchased the RR wing attach fittings. I will soon be drilling the spars, and bolting in the fittings. How does one know if these fittings are in fact heat treated - and of high enough quality for aircraft use? Also, should these fittings be coated? The plans speak of varnishing the wood, but does not say anything about coating the wafs. You know, I have been out of aviation for over 20 years. One main reason I decided on the KR2S was that it had "kit support". The people at RR are very nice. However, the KRnet has been a godsend with terrific support, and some very experienced people. Thanks to all who work on, support, and give advise on the KRnet! And again, best of luck to trailing edge. John Wadleigh KR2S Tucson,Az. jwnw1@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: EA-82 for sale From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:02:30 -0800 X-Message-Number: 45 Motorheads on the lower left coast. A relative of mine has an old Subaru station wagon that bit the dust this weekend. Actually the car is in pretty good shape and the engine runs fine. The automatic transmission gave up the ghost. This car has about 200k miles on it and I think the engine has been rebuilt once (100k miles ago). This is an EA-82 with a carb. I know the EA-81 is the preferred engine but the EA-82 has its advantages too (regrinding and changing cams is easy for one). Anyway this car might be for sale in the next few weeks so if anyone is Southern California wants to run a Subaru DD Turbo this may be a good engine to start with. I don't have a price yet but I am guessing somewhere around $500. If there is any interest send me and email off-line and I will write your name down and give you a call when the time comes. Please include your phone number. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:06:10 -0600 X-Message-Number: 46 Sorry about the fuss. I guess I over-reacted this morning. And I didn't mean to make anybody feel bad about the templates or whatever. I volunteered in every case, and I really don't mind doing it. I should probably do the MIms thing and take off for a couple of weeks in the Bahamas. Who's bringin' the beer Sunday? Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my garbage From: "Andy" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:35:01 -0800 X-Message-Number: 47 Hey Mark . . It's people like you that helped me to decide to try and build my own airplane. Your websight and your contributions to the discussions have been extreeeeeemley valuable to me, in ideas, in motivation, and in confidence. Thanks for "your garbage;" its been my treasure. On line or locally homebuilding is innovative and exciting because a few people are willing to share their ideas at a cost of time to themselves. Don't sell yourself short! Thanks again! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:00 AM Subject: [kr-net] my garbage >>Hey guys - let's keep all of the commercial garbage off of these postings. > >Sorry Bob. I was hoping that we could offer some stuff to help builders >out. I've deliberately only announced my web site once. I was going to >leave it to others to aim WAF seekers in my direction. I'm having serious >second thoughts about "selling" anything. I'm only trying to justify (to >myself) what I've been doing for years, which is sending out free templates >and drawings to anybody that asks. I've arrived at the point where I'm real >tired of doing it, and have decided to stop it. I had hoped that announcing >that it was going to cost a little money to get full size plotted templates >of airfoils and other KR parts would make people think twice before asking >me for a free copy. > >I'm really having a hard time justifying the amount of time that I put into >helping other KR builders, while my plane sits idle in the basement. I've >put in a grand total of FIVE hours in the last five months. I started >thinking about the amount of time that I put into reading and answering >KRNet email, and how much I'd get done on my plane if I unsubscribed. I'd >love to keep up my previous pace, but 13 hour days at work has put a serious >dent in my spare time. And we spend so much time talking about stuff that >concerns things other than KR building, and things that have been covered >over and over. I think I need a break from KRNet and the community as a >whole. I find it a little irritating that I've spent 6 years reasearching >KRs, homebuilding methods, sources, etc, while all that others have to do is >ask me how to do it, and for some free drawings while I'm at it! And I'm >not even sure why I've been doing this. I better stop now, before I say >something that ticks off every one of you, rather than just half of you. >But I'll try to keep my "garbage" to myself in the future... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: pickles@snowcrest.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Plywood gussets From: Michael Taglieri Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:24:07 EST X-Message-Number: 48 >Mike Taglieri wrote: > >>There was a long thread on this a year or so ago, which may be in the >>archives (?). I would expect the plywood gussets to be a bit stronger, >>if uglier, and using both would be overkill (and overweight). > >You can build your plane however you see fit. But you should be advised >that Tony Bengelis (among others) say that plywood gussets are better than >none at all, but solid Spruce gussets are the best. If KRNet "decided" that >plywood gussets would be a bit stronger, that should tell you something >about KRNet...but I don't remember us reaching that conclusion, not if >I had anything to say about it. Wait a minute -- please quote me accurately. I didn't say KRNet "decided" plywood gussets were better. What I said was that KRNet had a thread on the subject awhile back, and plywood gussets in my opinion would be better. The way to tell would be to build some joints both ways and try to pull them apart. Second, I don't remember what Tony Bingelis says in his other books, but on page 67 of The Sportplane Builder, he has a diagram clearly showing the traditional KR-type gusset as being intermediate in strength between no gusset at all and plywood gussets, which have more than 3X the gluing area. To me, that means he's saying plywood gussets are better. The strength really doesn't matter much because the traditional gussets are strong enough, and an early Newsletter said people could do it either way. But since plywood gussets would also be much easier, I will certainly test both kinds first. I admit, however, that the traditional gusset are much better-looking as an example of good woodworking. >Plywood gussets are O.K, but spruce gussets are going to be >better. (In my opinion). Anyone want to take some joints over >to the neighborhood engineering school to see when they break, >can post next. Actually, you don't need to know the numbers for how strong they are, just which one is stronger than the other. You could just build some U-shapes with a regular gusset on one side and a plywood gusset on the other. Then bring in your beefiest friends to pull them apart like the wishbone from a Thanksgiving turkey. Mike Taglieri _____________________________________________ "Fundamentally the marksman aims at himself." - from Zen And the Art of Archery ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: WAF and other things (long) From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:36:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 49 "John M. Wadleigh" wrote: > > > Specifically, I purchased the RR wing attach fittings. I will soon be drilling the spars, and bolting in the fittings. How does one know if these fittings are in fact heat treated - and of high enough quality for aircraft use? Also, should these fittings be coated? >>>> Janette recalled ALL the WAFs that were not up to spec. It was very easy to tell in my case as you could bend them with your bare hands. I don't know why I tried to bend it, for some reason they just didn't look right so I tried and either the weight training in the gym was working or they were soft. :o) Well they were soft and all that has been cleared up. By the way, RR gets those fittings from Ken Brock and I know how much he charges for them. In RRs defense, Ken is the one who is bending us over, Janette just has to pass it along to us in order to make a $ or two (if any I might add). I think its safe to say there will NOT be a working relationship between RR and Trailing Edge Technologies. But I find it hard to believe she wouldn't jump on laser cut WAFs at that price. That is less than what she is paying for stamped units. Oh well as mentioned on KRNet,..stranger things have happened! :o) Also I maintain a pretty good relationship with RR. Janette sends prospective builders my way and I show them what a cool little plane they can build. I can understand some peoples frustrations with the plans, support, kit prices, etc. but you can always do what I did. 1) Read the plans four times before you start and don't try to make them more complicated than they are. This is an incredibly simple airplane as far as construction and design. (yes they could use a good revision but,.....) Keep in mind this is NOT a Falco and never will be. It s dirt simple airplane made for dirt simple people. I don't know if that was a compliment or not?!?! :o) Its not a perfect airplane either and in the words of Bobby Muse (I think it was Bobby) "quit trying to make a perfect airplane and just finish the darn thing!" 2) Build everything from scratch and I mean EVERYTHING. This saves you a tremendous amount of money and if you have more time than money (like me) it works out perfectly! Not including my super cheap Lycoming O-290 I bet I have less than $4500 into my airframe and its darn near finished! The entire airplane will cost under $10k and that was a primary goal for me. 3) Join KRNet, unsubscribe from KRNet, join KRNet again and unsubscribe again. Then join one last time and learn to use the delete key!!!! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com