From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 1999 12:16 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: March 26, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, March 26, 1999. 1. Troys wings 2. Re: Troys wings 3. Spruce 4. spruce$$$ 5. Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits 6. Re: spruce$$$ 7. Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits 8. spruce$$$ 9. spruce$$$ 10. Epoxy weight 11. Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits 12. Re: varnish the spar? 13. Re: spruce$$$ 14. Re: spruce$$$ 15. Re: setting wing incidence 16. Re: spruce$$$ 17. Re: setting wing incidence 18. Re: setting wing incidence 19. Re: spruce$$$ 20. Re: Brakes 21. Re: KR Online manual 22. arrested, tried and convicted 23. Re: spruce$$$ 24. Re: spruce$$$ 25. Re: spruce$$$ 26. Re: spruce$$$ 27. Re: setting wing incidence 28. Re: setting wing incidence 29. Re: Spruce 30. Re: Epoxy weight 31. Re: spruce$$$ 32. Re: spruce$$$ 33. Re: arrested, tried and convicted 34. Re: arrested, tried and convicted 35. Re: Spruce 36. Spar question 37. Re: Spar question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Troys wings From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:50:37 PST X-Message-Number: 1 Did the appropriate people beg speed-racer Troy not to make any other tweaks to his plane so that we can get a good comparison of performance between the raf-48 and the 16% NLF? Also rumor has it he was going to get on the kr-net a while ago? any updates Rich Parker richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm Jaffrey, NH (Ignore what it says below - Hotmail Stinks!) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troys wings From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:59:58 -0600 X-Message-Number: 2 >Did the appropriate people beg speed-racer Troy not to make any other >tweaks to his plane so that we can get a good comparison of performance >between the raf-48 and the 16% NLF? Troy also added an electrical system and starter, but removed the elevator counterweights. Through other lightening efforts (replacing the plywood seat back with foam/glass sandwich, and making some featherweight carbon fiber wheel pants) he is only maybe 20 pounds heavier, I think. Dana took some pictures the other day (my camera wasn't in the mood) and I'll post them tonight. Troy's on KRNet, but only reads the mail when he's "on the road" and bored to tears in a hotel room somewhere. By the time he reads it, it's been answered. Maybe there's a lesson here... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford -----Original Message----- From: Richard Parker To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 4:53 AM Subject: [kr-net] Troys wings >Did the appropriate people beg speed-racer Troy not to make any other >tweaks to his plane so that we can get a good comparison of performance >between the raf-48 and the 16% NLF? > >Also rumor has it he was going to get on the kr-net a while ago? any >updates > >Rich Parker >richontheroad@hotmail.com >http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm >Jaffrey, NH > >(Ignore what it says below - Hotmail Stinks!) > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: langford@hiwaay.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Spruce From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:03:06 EST X-Message-Number: 3 Could someone post the going rate for a spruce kit. The people who are looking to build surely would be interested in the rate and time frame involved in receiving the order. The reason I ask this, is I found it interesting that when I ordered the spruce for my new rear spar, all of it was in stock and shipped the same day. Interesting observation here, I spoke with "someone" who makes RAF48 skins the other day and he said that he advises anyone who asks that they move their rear spar up "about 1/2" " to take out some of that 3 1/2 degree incidence. I believe the exact amount is .55" to get 2 degrees. BTW my airplane has no varnish in it, only epoxy. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto: kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: spruce$$$ From: "Keith Crawford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:30:09 PST X-Message-Number: 4 wicks 809 aircraft spruce 674.00 RR 830.00 these are prices of spruce kits for the 2s as of today Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:09:19 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 At 08:03 AM 3/26/99 EST, you wrote: > > >Could someone post the going rate for a spruce kit. The people who are >looking to build surely would be interested in the rate and time frame >involved in receiving the order. The reason I ask this, is I found it >interesting that when I ordered the spruce for my new rear spar, all of it was >in stock and shipped the same day. I've seen a couple of posts saying something like $800+. My AS&S catalog says $674, but I suspect that is old news. >Interesting observation here, I spoke with "someone" who makes RAF48 skins >the other day and he said that he advises anyone who asks that they move their >rear spar up "about 1/2" " to take out some of that 3 1/2 degree incidence. I >believe the exact amount is .55" to get 2 degrees. According to my figures, the difference from plan, (3.5 degrees), will be 1.256". You would lower the leading edge or raise the trailing edge this amount to get 2 degrees incidence. Here is a re-post on how to calculate wing incidence with the math corrected. Figuring actual incidence in units of measure, (inches/MM, etc.) is easy. First, you need to know 2 things. 1. The actual wing cord 2. The 0 angle for that particular airfoil. If you want to set your wing to +1 degree from the datum, which is the 0 angle of your airfoil, then the formula is; 48 for the 48" inner rib, X 2, X Pi, X (# of degrees from datum), devided by 360, (degrees in a circle.) Which is, 48 X 2 X 3.14 X 1/ 360 = .83733 ". 3.5 degrees looks like this, 48 X 2 X 3.14 X 3.5/360 = 2.93066" 2 degrees for the 36" outer rib looks like this, 36 X 2 X 3.14 X 2/360 = 1.256" Establish your 0 angle with the water level, then raise the front of your rib the amount of inches calculated above and lock it down with clamps. (This works just the same for negative degrees as well) (-1 degree is the same as +1 degree, just measure in the opposite direction from your datum). >BTW my airplane has no varnish in it, only epoxy. I plan to do the same. WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "Bruce S. Campbell" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:25:02 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 Hey Adrian C., What does your contact charge for the spruce kit now? Bruce S. Campbell Tampa, Florida Keith Crawford wrote: > wicks 809 > aircraft spruce 674.00 > RR 830.00 > these are prices of spruce kits for the 2s as of today > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: bmsi@ix.netcom.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:31:30 -0600 X-Message-Number: 7 >According to my figures, the difference from plan, (3.5 degrees), will be 1.256". >You would lower the leading edge or raise the trailing edge this amount to get >2 degrees incidence. The .55 number that I gave Dana the other day was dealing with changing the height of the aft spar above the longeron, not the trailing edge vs the leading edge. It's a lot easier to measure these things at the spars than guessing where the chord line is at the leading edge, although the measurement error is double for using half the span. The exact difference for a 2 degree shift is .755 inches of inclination at the aft spar above it's original position. I apparently dropped the 7 somewhere between the calculator and my fingers. And even this number may be suspect, since I'm running on memory that the spars are 21.625 inches apart. But you get the idea... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: spruce$$$ From: "Keith Crawford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:51:58 PST X-Message-Number: 8 The prices that I posted where cerent todate. I don't have siping coust. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: spruce$$$ From: "Keith Crawford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:55:47 PST X-Message-Number: 9 The prices that I posted where current today. I don't have siping coast. KEITH CRAWFORD Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Epoxy weight From: boggyd@webtv.net (D Bogdan) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:42:06 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 10 It makes sense to use the epoxy. Will it add much weight? Regards, DJ Milwaukee Success comes in cans.... not in can'ts, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:00:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 At 09:31 AM 3/26/99 -0600, you wrote: >>According to my figures, the difference from plan, (3.5 degrees), will be >1.256". >>You would lower the leading edge or raise the trailing edge this amount to >get >>2 degrees incidence. > >The .55 number that I gave Dana the other day was dealing with changing the >height of the aft spar above the longeron, not the trailing edge vs the >leading edge. It's a lot easier to measure these things at the spars than >guessing where the chord line is at the leading edge, although the >measurement error is double for using half the span. The exact difference >for a 2 degree shift is .755 inches of inclination at the aft spar above >it's original position. I apparently dropped the 7 somewhere between the >calculator and my fingers. And even this number may be suspect, since I'm >running on memory that the spars are 21.625 inches apart. But you get the >idea... Opps,, slap, slap, time to read for content.... (-; You'r correct. .755", or 3/4" in round numbers is right for 1.5 degrees. BTW: after looking at my 1974 KR2 plans, the dimension from the back of the front spar to the front of the rear spar is 22.125" . Another little difference between the old plans and the 2s plans. WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: varnish the spar? From: cartera Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:24:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Hi Gang, Well this is a me too, many years ago. Actually it is the best way to do it. How's Mikie doing? OK I'm gone!!!! Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera Mike Mims wrote: > > Bobby Muse wrote: > > > > This is my personal opinion... I would not varnish anything. I would not and did not use any varnish on my KR. >>> > > Bobby I completely agree with you as it seems varnish is an oil based > product. Varnish is something that was used thousands of years ago > before the days of epoxy glue. We have better options today and epoxy > is one of them. To keep this from being a "me too" post I wanted to > share with everyone what I did. While building my t-decks I would > always keep a bottle of alcohol (the rubbing type) handy and some cheap > paint brushes. I would mix a little alcohol in with the left over epoxy > and start painting. This worked great. > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... > mailto:mikemims@home.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > Aliso Viejo Ca > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "Rod Kelso" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:23:09 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 I just got a spruce kit from Wicks yesterday and it took them about 3 weeks. There mill man also does alot of piano orders, so they get backloged sometimes. My opinion is that WICKS has the BEST QUALITY of spruce. Every piece was perfect. I will go back to them again and again for more spruce when I need it. MY OPINION ONLY for what its worth..............................:o) Rod Kelso Denver, Colorado ---------- > From: Keith Crawford > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] spruce$$$ > Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 7:30 AM > > wicks 809 > aircraft spruce 674.00 > RR 830.00 > these are prices of spruce kits for the 2s as of today > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "Rod Kelso" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:29:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 14 My kit was only fuselage stuff at this point. The shipping from Highland to Denver was 60$ (3 boxes), and there was not creating charges. Rod Kelso Denver, Colo...............:o) ---------- > From: Keith Crawford > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] spruce$$$ > Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 8:51 AM > > > > The prices that I posted where cerent todate. > I don't have siping coust. > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:37:57 PST X-Message-Number: 15 In a past thread on this conversation there was also talk of changing the incidence on the horiz stab if you changed it on the main. Did the RAF-48 skin "supplier" have anything to say about if it was ok to do it with a h-stab done to plans? Or is there anyone still alive to tell about how it works? Rich Parker Jaffrey, NH (just about to glue in my rear spar until you guys brought this subject up again and now agonizing again about whether I should raise it! ) >From: "Mark Langford" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: setting wing incidence, was Spruce kits >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:31:30 -0600 > >>According to my figures, the difference from plan, (3.5 degrees), will be >1.256". >>You would lower the leading edge or raise the trailing edge this amount to >get >>2 degrees incidence. > >The .55 number that I gave Dana the other day was dealing with changing the >height of the aft spar above the longeron, not the trailing edge vs the >leading edge. It's a lot easier to measure these things at the spars than >guessing where the chord line is at the leading edge, although the >measurement error is double for using half the span. The exact difference >for a 2 degree shift is .755 inches of inclination at the aft spar above >it's original position. I apparently dropped the 7 somewhere between the >calculator and my fingers. And even this number may be suspect, since I'm >running on memory that the spars are 21.625 inches apart. But you get the >idea... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:46:27 -0500 X-Message-Number: 16 While out shopping for a pressure washer yesterday, I found 2 local sources of Douglas fir. I'm pretty sure that a local speciality lumber company has both doug fir and clear redwood. Anyone have any idea about the possability of using redwood for a KR? WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:57:03 -0600 X-Message-Number: 17 Richard Parker wrote: >In a past thread on this conversation there was also talk of changing >the incidence on the horiz stab if you changed it on the main. >Did the RAF-48 skin "supplier" have anything to say about if it was ok >to do it with a h-stab done to plans? Or is there anyone still alive to >tell about how it works? All indications are that there should be about 2 degrees of decalage (difference between wing and h/s incidence), so if you set your horizontal stab at 0 degrees like the plans call for, the main wing should be at about 2 degrees incidence. I think that's a pretty good place for them both, if using the RAF48. Making the h/s down about half a degree would mean that the main wing should be 1.5 degrees, etc. 3.5 degrees of decalage is a real drag. It's hard to give exact numbers since fuselage, canopy, cowling, gear, and other things contribute. One reason I'm trying to be so careful that I KNOW all of my angles and airfoils is that hopefully when mine flies I'll be able to calculate those effects which are now "unknown" and factor them into the equation to get the "right" numbers for incidences. The .755" number that I gave earlier is for 1.5 degrees of wing incidence, or a 2 degree deviation from the plans. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:05:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 18 At 10:37 AM 3/26/99 PST, you wrote: >In a past thread on this conversation there was also talk of changing >the incidence on the horiz stab if you changed it on the main. >Did the RAF-48 skin "supplier" have anything to say about if it was ok >to do it with a h-stab done to plans? Or is there anyone still alive to >tell about how it works? > >Rich Parker >Jaffrey, NH >(just about to glue in my rear spar until you guys brought this subject >up again and now agonizing again about whether I should raise it! ) Unless someone else has a better idea, I would think that you would want to establish the 0 degree datum for the fuselage, set the Horizontal stab to this datum, then set the wing incidence to whatever degree you want to use. If you fuselage displays some amount of banana boat, then you can use whatever you want to use for the datum. My first guess would be to use the line from the center of the firewall to the center of the tale post. This would give you a repeatable datum, and would make the curved sides a non-issue. Mind you, I haven't built my KR yet, so this is all hot air, until I actually start gluing wood. For myself, I'm going to do the fuselage in a different way, and assuming it all works out, It will all be true and square without much effort on my part. WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:43:28 PST X-Message-Number: 19 I'd recommend only fuselage stuff, horix and vert stab stuff. That will keep you busy for a year. And dont forget the bargain "bag o spruce" Its well worth the $15 and you can make a lot of other stuff from it. spar verticals, etc. Rich Parker >From: "Rod Kelso" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: spruce$$$ >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:29:58 -0700 > >My kit was only fuselage stuff at this point. The shipping from Highland >to Denver was 60$ (3 boxes), and there was not creating charges. > >Rod Kelso >Denver, Colo...............:o) > >---------- >> From: Keith Crawford >> To: KR-net users group >> Subject: [kr-net] spruce$$$ >> Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 8:51 AM >> >> >> >> The prices that I posted where cerent todate. >> I don't have siping coust. >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rbk@orci.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Brakes From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:00:31 PST X-Message-Number: 20 if anyone is interested. The brakes on the page Mims mentioned below look like tolomatic brakes. www.tolomatic.com They also have hydraulic ones for $63 each list. Model H10-xxxx >From: Mike Mims >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Strobes >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:52:14 -0800 > >Dean Collette wrote: >> >> The other day I ran across this web site: http://www.kestrobes.com >> Has anybody seen these? >> > >No I haven't seen those particular ones but I found this page the other >day: > >http://www.inscorp.com/~mandrson/ > >and I sent the guy an email to make sure he is in business and he >replied instantly with a big AFIRM! > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... >mailto:mikemims@home.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Aliso Viejo Ca >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR Online manual From: "Cary Honeywell" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:54:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 21 Email (reply) to caryh@home.com or ve3ev@rac.ca Web page http://members.home.net/caryh KR2 area http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm (Both of the above have not been updated or debugged lately.) ---------- > From: Michael Taglieri > To: KR-net users group > Cc: kr-net@telelists.com > > The KR Newsletter has always faced the same liability worries this new > manual would face, and they have a disclaimer on it that would probably > be fine for you too (but not verbatim or Monte Miller may sue instead!) > > Alternatively, look at the disclaimer on the Newsletter for > Stoddard-Hamilton, or some other competently run kitplane company, and > copy that. > Probably an accurate assessment. As long as the caveat is clear enough, should be ok. Best, though, to run even that past a mouthpiece before publishing. - Cary - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: arrested, tried and convicted From: Steven Eberhart Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:23:51 -0600 (CST) X-Message-Number: 22 Cary, You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. The following is sufficient evidence of your discussing the online manual project on KRNet :-) All manual discussions have been moved to a new list server set up strictly for the purpose of discussing and preparing the new manual. You can subscribe to the list by sending an email to majordome@evansville.net with the line subscribe project_viking in the body of the email. We will let you off with only a warning this time. KRNet police ------------ On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Cary Honeywell wrote: > Email (reply) to caryh@home.com > or ve3ev@rac.ca > Web page http://members.home.net/caryh > KR2 area http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm > (Both of the above have not been updated or debugged lately.) > > ---------- > > From: Michael Taglieri > > To: KR-net users group > > Cc: kr-net@telelists.com > > > > The KR Newsletter has always faced the same liability worries this new > > manual would face, and they have a disclaimer on it that would probably > > be fine for you too (but not verbatim or Monte Miller may sue instead!) > > > > Alternatively, look at the disclaimer on the Newsletter for > > Stoddard-Hamilton, or some other competently run kitplane company, and > > copy that. > > > > Probably an accurate assessment. As long as the caveat is clear enough, > should be ok. Best, though, to run even that past a mouthpiece before > publishing. > > - Cary - > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: newtech@newtech.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ------------------------------------- http://www.newtech.com/nlf One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought and is in no way intended to imply that it is anything more than ideas requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: GREG S MARTIN Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:34:15 -0800 X-Message-Number: 23 WD Select struructural spruce has an fiber bending stress of 1,250 & a modulas of elasticity of 1,400,000. Doug fir "FBS" is 1,300 w/ a "MOE" of 1,300,000. Redwood clear structural's "FBS" is1,750 w/ a "MOE" of 1,400,000. You will see that the redwood is a stronger wood. But you have to be real carefull to make sure that the grain is real tight and is less that 5% diminishing in 24". I used doug fir clear for mine as I was able to get larger pecies, ie. less glue joints. My spar only has 2 glue joints, the plywood front and rear. I was able to cut the spar to allow it to be boxed as in the plans. I have the intermediate spacers as shown on the plans. I did that for both front and rear spars, center and out board. Those numbers are from the 1994 UBC code book on table 23-I-A-1 for your information. But I sure liked the method I used for my plane. Best of luck. Greg Martin Bakersfield, CA On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:46:27 -0500 "Wayne DeLisle Sr." writes: > >While out shopping for a pressure washer yesterday, I found >2 local sources of Douglas fir. > >I'm pretty sure that a local speciality lumber company has both >doug fir and clear redwood. > >Anyone have any idea about the possability of using redwood for >a KR? > >WD >-------------------------------------------- >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Charlotte, North Carolina USA >mailto:dodger@coincidental.net >http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger >-------------------------------------------- > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: idrawtobuild@juno.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: cartera Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:13:59 -0700 X-Message-Number: 24 Hi Gang, Bruce, Western Aircraft has the KR2-S wood for $680.00US. This is milled to spec, no lamination of spars they are solid wood. Air freighted which is cheaper then truck anywhere in the world. If you want to contact him Jean Peters phone/fax 403- 276-3087 AC "Bruce S. Campbell" wrote: > > Hey Adrian C., > > What does your contact charge for the spruce kit now? > > Bruce S. Campbell > Tampa, Florida > > Keith Crawford wrote: > > > wicks 809 > > aircraft spruce 674.00 > > RR 830.00 > > these are prices of spruce kits for the 2s as of today > > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: bmsi@ix.netcom.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: JEHayward@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:30:58 EST X-Message-Number: 25 In a message dated 3/26/99 11:22:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, rbk@orci.com writes: << My opinion is that WICKS has the BEST QUALITY of spruce. Every piece was perfect. I will go back to them again and again for more spruce when I need it. >> My spruce kit was ordered from RR before I knew any better. She had it dropped shipped from Wicks and it was all good stuff. I found the price cheaper in Wicks catalog, questioned RR about it and she credited me the difference.....good customer relations. I've bought practically all my stuff from Wicks. I priced some spruce planks for the firewall from AS&S and was told it would be 6 weeks before they had any to ship to me. I had it from Wicks 5 days later. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:25:20 -0800 X-Message-Number: 26 I noticed in one post that AS&S seem to have the best price on spruce. Well if there is one thing that I dislike about AS&S is that they are notorious for publishing prices that are far lower than actual. The KR2S spruce kit has been in the $650 range for the past 4 years in the catalog when in fact the actual price is almost $800 or more. I have found this pricing structure to hold true for more than 50% of the items I have bought from them. Kinda sucks when you show up at will-call on a budget! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:33:32 -0800 X-Message-Number: 27 Richard Parker wrote: > > In a past thread on this conversation there was also talk of changing > the incidence on the horiz stab if you changed it on the main. > Did the RAF-48 skin "supplier" have anything to say about if it was ok to do it with a h-stab done to plans? Or is there anyone still alive to> tell about how it works? > Rich there have been plenty of KRs fly with the stock horizontal tail incidence and the main wing set at 2 or less. I know of at least 3 KR2s that were built with 1.5 degrees with 1.5 degrees of washout. All three were owned by higher time pilots and they said the plane flew just fine. It just wasn't pointed at the ground as much at cruise! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: setting wing incidence From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:43:51 -0800 X-Message-Number: 28 You guys are sure making it sound like there is a science to setting the wing incidence! After you get your boat done you will see that setting the spars up for the proper incidence is easier than building the boat itself (which is cake!). When I stood back and took a look at my boat about 10 ideas came to mind as to how to do it but this is what I did. First I leveled the fuselage (I used 90 degrees from the vertical members that are on each side of the main spar) and drew a level line on the outside skin about 10 inches from the bottom of the fuselage side. I also transferred the location of the vertical members that are on both sides of the spars to the outside of the fuselage. I drew my chord line on my paper rib template. From this I drew the 2 degree incidence line (plans say 3.5). I leveled this line with the line I drew on the fuselage and then I held the template up so the main spar would be about 5/8s of an inch from the bottom and then marked around the outside of the template where the rear spar should be. Then I cut out the plywood between the vertical members and slid the spar in. I was done! Incidence set! Piece of cake and no calculator needed! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spruce From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:45:43 -0800 X-Message-Number: 29 KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > Could someone post the going rate for a spruce kit. By far the best price on spruce is from that outfit in Canada. Haris will post the name because that's where he got his and it was CHEEP! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Epoxy weight From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:48:26 -0800 X-Message-Number: 30 D Bogdan wrote: > > It makes sense to use the epoxy. Will it add much weight? > Weight is always and issue but the amount of protection offered by epoxy outweighs (ha ha , like that?) the penalty. I would imagine I used less than a quart of mixed EZpoxy to do the inside of my fuselage and spars. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims KR290S (Sky Pig) ,..Building ailerons and sanding the wings... mailto:mikemims@home.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:37:04 EST X-Message-Number: 31 In a message dated 3/26/99 7:41:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, JEHayward@aol.com writes: << I priced some spruce planks for the firewall from AS&S and was told it would be 6 weeks before they had any to ship to me. I had it from Wicks 5 days later. >> True here guys, check around and find out what is in stock. I ordered my new rear spar material from AS&S on Tuesday and got it today. Like Mike said, the prices were different from what the catalog said. If you order it and they ship it 6 weeks from the order date.............you will pay more..............moral to the story, check around. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto: kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: spruce$$$ From: "RONALD R. EASON" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:50:53 -0600 X-Message-Number: 32 Paxton Lumber also carries all kinds of wood including spruce. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: arrested, tried and convicted From: "caryh" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:02:56 -0500 X-Message-Number: 33 Wasn't sure where that message ended up. Now I know. I crashed. I burned. - Cary - :-) Reply to caryh@home.com Web http://members.home.net/caryh KR2 http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm Ottawa Ontario Canada -----Original Message----- From: Steven Eberhart To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 4:17 PM Subject: [kr-net] arrested, tried and convicted >You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be >used against you in a court of law. The following is sufficient evidence >of your discussing the online manual project on KRNet :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: arrested, tried and convicted From: Mdoby34371@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:20:44 EST X-Message-Number: 34 In a message dated 3/26/99 1:13:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, newtech@newtech.com writes: << majordome@evansville.net with the line subscribe project_viking >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spruce From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:52:23 EST X-Message-Number: 35 In a message dated 3/26/99 6:46:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, mikemims@home.com writes: << Haris will post the name because that's where he got his and it was CHEEP! >> I got my spar kit from Western Aircraft Supplies. Good thing about it was that no lamination was needed at all. Haris Ashraf Building spars now ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Spar question From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:45:22 EST X-Message-Number: 36 The front center spar is 1" shorter than the rear center spar. Is there a reason for that? Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spar question From: Robert Covington Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:40:18 -0700 (MST) X-Message-Number: 37 >The front center spar is 1" shorter than the rear center spar. Is there a >reason for that? > >Haris Wouldn't have something to do with wing taper would it? You mean width, and not height, right...? Robert Covington --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com