From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:37 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: April 21, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Wednesday, April 21, 1999. 1. Re: ELT 2. Shirt for Jeanette- the end 3. Re: Was - Shirt for Jeanette- the end 4. too much e-mail 5. Re: Test Only-Is System Down 6. Re: insurance 7. Re: insurance 8. Re: ELT 9. Re: ELT 10. Re: Itty bitty update 11. ELT and STALL 12. Re: Prosepective Builder 13. Re: the Balkanization of the KR net 14. Sept fly in 15. Re:epoxies 16. Re: Shirt for Jeanette- the end 17. Stainless Steel Tape... a poor ground plane 18. Re: the Balkanization of the KR net 19. Re: the Balkanization of the KR net 20. Re: Prosepective Builder 21. typing in upper case and other stuff 22. Re: ELT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: ELT From: Bobby Muse Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:45:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 At 06:01 PM 04/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: >KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: >> >> Looking over the installation manual for my ELT. > > >100Gs!! This is obviously overkill! If 2 Gs will trigger it and 20Gs >will kill most of us I would think somewhere in between would be good >enough as far as mounting the darn thing. I would think a piece of 1/4 >inch ply floxed to the 5/8s spruce vertical members (maybe an extra 5/8s >piece added where needed) on the fuselage sides would be more than >adequate. Somewhere just behind the seats or on the passenger side by >the instrument panel would be fine. Easy access would be nice so you >can turn it off after a less than perfect landing. :o) > >Micheal Mims > I agree with Mike. When I get around to it(purchased my ELT six years ago @ SnF) I will mount the ELT just behind the seat on the sidewall with manual switch on the instrument panel. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Shirt for Jeanette- the end From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:20:18 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 I will get you for that, Steve ;o) Please, guys- no money. The shirt will/has been sent, compliments of KRNet, and with no donations needed. Save your donations for supporting the Net when whine time rolls around... or for buying 100-G brackets for your ELT ;o) This group feeds me so much useful info every day that it is well worth what little I can put back, whether it's helping to mend fence with R-R, or making empty promises to finish the KRNet CD-ROM, or whatever. Thanks to all the builders and pilots who feed this thing every day, I will one day build and fly my own KR with confidence. For now, my Flying Squirrel project is coming along nicely and still looking at Oshkosh in 2000 to show it off... Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Was - Shirt for Jeanette- the end From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:29:25 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 4/21/99 8:49:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: << Save your donations for supporting the Net when whine time rolls around... or for buying 100-G brackets for your ELT ;o) >> Hey, they make it easy on you...........they supply the bracket, all you have to do is weld up the bridge trussel to mount it too:-) Dana (pulling G's) Overall ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: too much e-mail From: "bob west" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:37:57 -0700 X-Message-Number: 4 I don't want to unsubscribe, but I am getting so much mail that I am overwhelmed and end up reading very little of what is there. tell me what to do to receive less of the unwanted stuff. -----Original Message----- From: marmet To: KR-net users group Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 6:12 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: WAF >THANKS > >CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > >> wing attach fittings >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: marmet2@videotron.ca >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: bstudio1@olympus.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Test Only-Is System Down From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:40:58 CST X-Message-Number: 5 > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:03:06 -0500 > To: "KR-net users group" > From: Bobby Muse > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Test Only-Is System Down > Reply-to: "KR-net users group" > At 01:15 PM 04/15/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >At 10:38 AM 4/15/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >What?? > > > >And just how do I get access to these "by invitation only" lists?? > > > >I hope you are joking. > > > >If that's what is > >happening to the KRnet list, then I might as well unsubscribe > >here as well. > >WD > > > > > This has got to be joke! If it is not a joke then this is real supid!(my > opinion only) > > If some of you want to start your own "invitation only" list then just go do > it, but don't tell the world that you're having a private party and they are > not invited. > .................. > > For what its worth: I have been around the KR movement for a long time and > I have seen a lot progress and improvement in the quality of craftsmanship > in the flying KRs. But I have also seen a lot of builders that just could > ever get their KR completed. The major reason they never finish is because > we all desire to build the PERFECT plane. I'm as guilty as the next guy(or > girl). I know because I was part that group for a long while. It took me > eleven years to complete N122B and there were times that I was just about to > cut it up for firewood. > > With the KR, we can make modifications which is beauty of the KR, but it > also is the downfall of a lot of builders. > > Small mods delay completion a small amount of time and major mods delay > completion a major amount of time, sometimes causing the aircraft to never > be completed at all. Mods are not always bad, it's just the extra time > required can cause a builder to lose interest. > > Believe me I know how hard it is to leave your sweetheart/or kids and go > work on the KR. But it's the only way to get it done. There are no two KRs > just alike, we all make mods. Please, try to keep them small enought that > you will complete your bird and be proud of your creation. Come fly with me. > > Keep It Simple Supid(KISS). > > > Bobby Muse > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > Good Day Netters I too decry the Balkanization of the KR net, especially if I am to be fenced out of information that I might want. AND, I hate politics. Rex Ellington Norman OK > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ELLINGTO@gslan.offsys.ou.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: insurance From: NFCKR3@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:29:00 EDT X-Message-Number: 6 Try FALCON INSURANCE in Austin Tx. They insured my KR for Hull and liability and were very reasonable, sorry their number and address is at the airport. Skip Carden 250KB ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: insurance From: donald.norris@natinst.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:54:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 FYI everyone, Falcon Insurance 2499 S Capitol of Texas HWY Austin, TX 78746 512-328-1333 Good Luck to all -Donald 38TF Elgin, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: ELT From: NFCKR3@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:14:58 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 I just put one in 250KB and did a set of photos and am working on an article for the NEWS, but I used self adhesive Stainless Steel Tape, like they use in body work. I taped off several radials on the bottom skin just aft of the seat back and fabricated a bracket for the antenna. I then mounted the bracket to the top of the SS tape and this makes a nice ground plane. I mounted the ELT just behind the spar on a 3/8" plywood block glued to the bottom skin. I then mounted the activation switch on the dash right in front of me so that if it is accidentally tripped I will see the red light. Will try to get the photos scanned for anyone interested. Skip Carden 250KB PS At the forum in Lakeland a fellow stated that he had a 645 pound KR that stalled at 36 mph. I tested mine and at 606 pounds I can't do better that 60 mph! What speeds are some of you getting?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: ELT From: "Stiteler, Michael" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:34:04 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 Hi Skip, You're stalling at 60 mph indicated, right? If you have GPS, try some slow flight and see if you can get down below 45 in the landing configuration. I suspect that your indicated stall speed is a bit high. Mike Michael R. Stiteler mailto:stiteler@aticorp.org Advanced Technology Institute Voice : (843) 760-3285 5300 International Blvd. Fax : (843) 760-3349 N. Charleston, SC 29418 http://www.aticorp.org -----Original Message----- From: NFCKR3@aol.com [mailto:NFCKR3@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 3:15 PM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: ELT I just put one in 250KB and did a set of photos and am working on an article for the NEWS, but I used self adhesive Stainless Steel Tape, like they use in body work. I taped off several radials on the bottom skin just aft of the seat back and fabricated a bracket for the antenna. I then mounted the bracket to the top of the SS tape and this makes a nice ground plane. I mounted the ELT just behind the spar on a 3/8" plywood block glued to the bottom skin. I then mounted the activation switch on the dash right in front of me so that if it is accidentally tripped I will see the red light. Will try to get the photos scanned for anyone interested. Skip Carden 250KB PS At the forum in Lakeland a fellow stated that he had a 645 pound KR that stalled at 36 mph. I tested mine and at 606 pounds I can't do better that 60 mph! What speeds are some of you getting?? --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: stiteler@aticorp.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Itty bitty update From: foster schuren Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:44:50 -0400 X-Message-Number: 10 TIM I am in the Orlando area and can possible offer you some help. I am a second owner and would be of help to you. Foster Schuren 341-1211 Maitland/Sanford Tim Key wrote: > Tom, > > I'm in Orlando too and building a KR2 also. Let's get together and > share info. > > Tim Key > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: schuren@magicnet.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: ELT and STALL From: "DAVID STUART" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:25:33 +1200 X-Message-Number: 11 My ELT is mounted on the floor behind my seat on 1/4" ply with the aerial mounted beside it 6" from the side of the fuselage. It is a Pointer type and becomes obsolete in New Zealand next year. My KR-2 special weighs in at .....empty......640lb pilot ......200lb fuel ......70 lb Average recreational flying weight .....910lb with a stall at 55mph. This has not changed much in 582Hrs and 15 years. Regards......Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prosepective Builder From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:36:26 CST X-Message-Number: 12 > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:25:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: James Jones > Subject: [kr-net] Prosepective Builder > To: "KR-net users group" > Reply-to: "KR-net users group" > > > Hi!, > > > I'm looking at the KR-2 as a possible project but was wondering how the > performance is as high altitude fields. I live in Fort Collins CO with > a field elevation of 4935 ft. Additionally, are there any KR > builder/pilots in my area? > > Regards, > > Jim JIM A friend of mine, John Linke, built a KR2 in Grand Junction, with an 1835 Rex Taylor engine, and flew it all over the place. Sold it. It is still flying somewhere. Keep it light and use a 2100cc engine (like GPASC) Rex Ellington Norman OK Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: the Balkanization of the KR net From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:13:35 -0400 X-Message-Number: 13 >Good Day Netters > >I too decry the Balkanization of the KR net, especially if I >am to be fenced out of information that I might want. >AND, I hate politics. > >Rex Ellington >Norman OK Heh heh heh..... I've been aware of this for some time, just needed the right moment to beard the lion, so to speak. (-; There are a couple of small groups that are not happy with the way KRnet is going. The originals want to have their own little tight group and some resent the new people asking the same old questions time after time. There is another group that don't like the KR manual project, who knows why. People seem to forget that although there are only 30-40 people posting there are over 400 others reading. I have my own approach. I'm here to learn what I can , and teach what I know. You will notice that I don't argue with anyone and I seldom post trivialities. I do email others privately about various issues just as I am doing here. I prefer face to face personal contact, but email is not a bad alternative. Take care, WD -------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@coincidental.net http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Sept fly in From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:45:04 -0400 X-Message-Number: 14 I've reserved a room for Fri night at the lake Barkley State Park for the Sept. fly in. Willing to share with someone as long as you don't snore. kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re:epoxies From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:21:17 -0400 X-Message-Number: 15 There is a new epoxy on the market called MGS. Made in Germany. Approved by the German government for use in gliders and motor gliders. High strength, low toxicity and competitive cost. To achieve full strength it requires a cure of 24 hrs at 50c or better but most of its strength can be achieved without the heat cure. Cure time can be varied by varying the mix of slow and fast hardners. I have T88, West, aeropoxyand safety poxy on hand and I intend to try them all. What is good is what is available and what works for you. I get quite a reaction to west system epoxy but I can cope. I found a Canadian supplier for fiberglass ,epoxies and fillers if anyone this side of the border needs one W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: Dean Collette > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Epoxies-was something else > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 1:16 AM > > > Mike Mims wrote; > >Out of all the Epoxies I > >have used Aeropoxy is the only one that caused me to have physical > >problems. Mostly really BAD headaches and messed up vision the day > >after. My opinion is send it back and get yourself some EZpoxy! :o) > > > > Mike - it's just 'cause you're a "sensitive" guy. > > I have used Aeropoxy on everything that I have done so far (and I have done > some BIG lay-ups), and have had no problems whatsoever. I have found this > stuff to be very easy to work with - wets out the cloth nicely, predictable > cure, and no terrible smell. I have also heard very good things about > EZpoxy, and wouldn't have any problems using that if I couldn't get > Aeropoxy. > > But, I wouldn't use it in the fuel tanks. This is the one area that I will > probably use Vinyl Ester Resin in. The manufacturers actually advocate VEs > use in these areas. > > Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin > mailto:drdean@execpc.com > Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Shirt for Jeanette- the end From: "Jim Whiteshield" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:08:41 -0800 X-Message-Number: 16 Take it as a "GRAND" endorsement of your idea! :) I'm sure (well Nearly sure) that none of us intended to embarass you! :) -- On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:20:18 Oscar Zuniga wrote: >I will get you for that, Steve ;o) Please, guys- no money. The shirt >will/has been sent, compliments of KRNet, and with no donations >needed HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Stainless Steel Tape... a poor ground plane From: Ron Freiberger Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:51:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 17 Stainless Steel Tape... a poor ground plane The reason stainless steel is stainless is that the surface is self-passivating. Or, to say it another way, it's nearly impossible to make a reliable connection electrically. Buy some copper tape from RST, or look for some cheap printed circuit board at a hamfest Braided wire makes the best, but PCB board is the easiest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: the Balkanization of the KR net From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:56:53 EDT X-Message-Number: 18 In a message dated 4/21/99 7:15:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dodger@coincidental.net writes: << There are a couple of small groups that are not happy with the way KRnet is going. The originals want to have their own little tight group and some resent the new people asking the same old questions time after time. >> I tried to think of a good way to respond to this and I can't think of a good one. The originals on the KRNet are all builders, not plans readers, most with construction web sites. We know the pitfalls of the construction process and I feel the questions are answered promptly and have been for several years. There is no resentment for questions, I have no idea where that comment comes from. It's statements like that, that will keep someone from asking an important question. The KRNet is where KR questions are asked. It's statements like above that makes the "old originals" want to say screw it, build it yourself. I've tried to be a little diplamatic, being the KR Gathering host. I guess I could be out finishing mine up rather than spending so much time on the KRNet. I guess I can't understand how someone who is not building, or has not been on the net for very long, can make a statement like that. I probably shouldn't have responded and probably will not for awhile. I was going to send to Wayne privately but believe me I didn't sent it the KRnet by accident. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: the Balkanization of the KR net From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:56:30 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 I have been aware of the "multiple groups" since their inception and am a member of at least one other. There is sufficient cross pollination between the groups that nobody is missing out on any new technical goodies. Wayne is right to some degree, I do miss the day when there were about 10 of us getting the KRNet going. We were a pretty tight group that could actively work on an idea on line. It's different now as we are approaching 450 members. I don't begrudge anyone on the list that is here to learn or educate, or both. One thing to remember about this list. Before you hit the send button, think about whether what you are writing is something you would stand up and say before an auditorium full of your peers. That is roughly the equivilent of what we have now. In some regards, it makes it extremely difficult to work on an idea on line as there is too much input. On the other hand, there are more ideas with a bigger group and many of them are very good. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:13:35 -0400 "Wayne DeLisle Sr." > >Heh heh heh..... > >I've been aware of this for some time, just needed the right moment >to beard the lion, so to speak. (-; > >There are a couple of small groups that are not happy with the way >KRnet is going. The originals want to have their own little tight group >and some resent the new people asking the same old questions >time after time. > >There is another group that don't like the KR manual project, who >knows why. > >People seem to forget that although there are only 30-40 people posting >there are over 400 others reading. > >I have my own approach. I'm here to learn what I can , and teach what >I know. You will notice that I don't argue with anyone and I seldom >post trivialities. I do email others privately about various issues just >as I am doing here. > >I prefer face to face personal contact, but email is not a bad >alternative. > >Take care, > >WD >-------------------------------------------- >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Charlotte, North Carolina USA >mailto:dodger@coincidental.net >http://angst.webserve.net/~dodger >-------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prosepective Builder From: SkyHawk11@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:21:08 EDT X-Message-Number: 20 808BS HAS VW ENGINE AND 14 HOURS SINCE 1ST FLIGHT WE WERE AT 5500 TUESDAY AND I WAS IND 100K AND HE PASSED ME IND 150K WE FLY FROM 1380 AND WITH ONE 165 ADULT AND ONE 140 KID IT GOES LIKE GANG BUSTERS SKYHAWK11 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: typing in upper case and other stuff From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:00:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 21 SkyHawk11@aol.com wrote: > > 808BS HAS VW ENGINE AND 14 HOURS SINCE 1ST FLIGHT > > WE WERE AT 5500 TUESDAY AND I WAS IND 100K AND HE PASSED ME IND > 150K WE FLY FROM 1380 AND WITH ONE 165 ADULT AND ONE 140 KID IT GOES LIKE GANG BUSTERS I don't want to be a jerk or anything but typing in all upper case is the equivalent to shouting as far as emails go. Maybe you are shouting but I thought you might want to know. As for the other list, like I said you are not missing anything so lets just drop that one for now. We lost a good KRNet member today because of all the whining over the "elitist list". You guys want some cheese to go with that whine? :o) Progress on the Pig is going great. Ailerons are pretty much glassed on both sides. This weekend I plan to finish them up and get them ready for filler and make the last aluminum parts for the motor mount bolts. There is a Airshow (a big one from what I heard) happening at my home airport (Chino California) this weekend so I may not get anything done. I plan to be there on Saturday so if you plan to attend stop by the hanger and say hi. Its H3 #7 in front of the jet fighter museum. There was a post today from someone who complained about getting too much email. Dude the list has been pretty slow the last few weeks. Man are you in for a surprise if it ever picks back up! :o) 2300cc VW should be bolted back on the Dragonfly this weekend so maybe I will have a flight report next week. Plan to hit the hanger tomorrow after work and do something to the Pig, I just got to get her finished this year! I gotta, I gotta, I gotta! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: ELT From: Mike Mims Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:11:33 -0700 X-Message-Number: 22 NFCKR3@aol.com wrote: > PS At the forum in Lakeland a fellow stated that he had a 645 pound KR that stalled at 36 mph. I tested mine and at 606 pounds I can't do better that 60 mph! What speeds are some of you getting?? > Well maybe he only weighed 120 pounds and that was with little fuel and with power on? I have a hard time believing that one but you never know. Maybe he has a magic airspeed indicator! I know in this eXperimental aviation world we live, there are such things. I once saw a magical set of scales that said a Subaru engine only weighed 180 pounds (with redrive) so I guess anything is possible. :o) Not only that your airspeed error at that slow of an airspeed (or his) may be very large. Also what is considered a stall to you may not be a stall to him. Maybe you are talking about a large sink rate and he is talking about a nice clean break? From what I have heard it is possible to stall them as slow as 40 to 45 mph under the right conditions. To many particulars involved to worry about this kind of comparison though. Can you get in and out of 500 feet solo? If so then you have nothing to worry about. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com